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Re: Microsoft vs Bot Nets

Posted: 23 Mar 2020, 15:17
by Kellemora
At the time, I had enough business printing black on white, so it was sorta dumb to get into the tri-fold business, especially using ink jets. It sorta came about when I bought the ink jet printers that did color, and had access to production grade gloss gel paper for a super cheap price. I didn't start out by doing tourist trap flyers, they sorta found me, hi hi.
I was doing the Sunday Bulletin for a few area churches for like three years, but not for my own church yet.
The person who did the ones for my church was out sick, and my wife volunteered me to do them.
This led to my doing their monthly newsletter also. In both cases, I only made one copy and they would duplicate them on a copy machine. Their copier was about as trustworthy as my crash printer, hi hi. So I bought the pre-printed bulletin paper with the color picture on the front and began printing them myself. I did have an Epson and a Canon printer as a backup, and added to them before I bought all the Lexmark color printers.
I didn't use color in the Sunday bulletins, but always used color on the front of the Newsletter after that, which of course led to color on the back page, and then inside the front and back page, which of course is only one sheet of 8-1/2 x 14 paper printed on both sides then folded. The other two or three pages were always done in black n white on the crash printer. Unless it was not working right, then I used the Epson or Canon printers which I still had for black n white work.
One of the churches I only did the bulletin for, since they were a small church, asked if I could do the printing also. This particular church had member business advertisements on the outside of the back page. One just happen to be a car dealer who showed a car in his ad, and they always provided a digital copy of their ad sized to fit the space they were paying for.
Well, their secretary messed up and sent the color version of the ad, so I went ahead and printed it in color. And it just so happened, I was out of their denominations bulletin paper, but did have one in my file from the previous year. I used the gel gloss paper on this order, with a full color front, and the ads on the back.
Apparently the car dealer was pleased and gave me a call. He also advertised in the newspaper but got little results from it. He said something about the flyer printer he uses won't do less than 500 sheets, and he only has 12 places where he puts out his flyers. He likes to only put 5 flyers at each location each week. He asked if I would mind only printing 30 of his weekly ads on the 8-1/2 x 14, and cut them in half to make them 8-1/2 x 7. I made him a couple of samples of which he was pleased and he offered me more than double of what I probably would have charged him if I had to give a quote.
Then he changed the flyer so it was folded in half the narrow way, making it 3-1/2 inches wide by 8-1/2 inches tall, and his ads got a little more elaborate with each one. He had an ad company who did all the set-up and I got a ready to print file.
His ad led to my getting a 1/2 size flyer order from a new auto repair company, actually there were four on a single page, then cut and stacked. Then from a lawn mowing service, and a new tobacco shop.
About then is when the car dealer wanted to move up to tri-fold pages.
I had made a home-brew rigging to make sure the folds on the single fold were dead on, but a tri-fold would be a new challenge. I could still use my single-fold by adjusting for the size, then do the operation twice. This got to be too time consuming. Then I ran across a used manually operated machine that could make perforations in a straight line anywhere on the page. I knew I didn't need perforations, so replaced the perf wheel with what would be a cutting wheel if it were not rounded off. I took an old bicycle inner tube and cut it in half lengthwise to get a long strip of rubber. A couple of screws in the ends of my machine, which looked sorta like the old manual credit card imprinting machines.
With the piece of rubber stretched between the screws it worked like platen for the round not able to cut wheel to run across. This made a small straight dent in the paper where it would be folded. It took two passes, one inside up and one outside up, but now the tri-fold registration was perfect and with the dents in the paper nearly folded themselves.
I sent the first couple of orders out with the pages folded into tri-folds, but after that I sent them out laid flat, because when you picked up each one, as I said they nearly folded themselves. The dealer actually preferred them this way because then the stack did not fall over on his desk, hi hi.
On a couple of orders I did for him, in super tiny 4 point type I put on the bottom back, printed by SCS with my phone number. At first I got more phone calls on how I made the dents in the paper than I did queries about orders, hi hi.
But this is how the smaller amusement places started contacting me about short-run tri-fold orders.
All I'm going to say is I'm glad those orders died down some, because they really were a pain to do.
I saved them a lot of money because they did not have to pay for color separations and plates like they did with the regular offset printing places.

Re: Microsoft vs Bot Nets

Posted: 23 Mar 2020, 16:57
by yogi
One of the take aways form your story is that word of mouth advertising is probably the most effective way to go. Getting the ball rolling is always the hard part, but you did some really great work that spoke for itself. I've seen those dents in flyers but never gave any though to how they got there. It didn't seem like it would be a big challenge since I already knew how perforations are made at the envelope company. A dent would just be a different wheel. But, you added the Rube Goldgerg touch and ended up doing better than the professionals. LOL

Speaking of which I saw a funny quote recently that kind of applies. It went something like:
"Keep in mind that the Ark was built by amateurs and the Titanic was build by professionals."

Re: Microsoft vs Bot Nets

Posted: 24 Mar 2020, 15:21
by Kellemora
Years before I got this machine, I was using a straightedge and a sewing pattern tracer to perforate a tear off portion of a page. I only had a few clients who I allowed to charge their work, and I wanted the hand-typed statement to look more professional. Didn't have computers or printers back then, hi hi. I used my letterhead paper so it actually looked great. Just as good as the statements the florist sent out for over 50 years, hi hi.

Did you know the Log-In to this website is not Remembering Us, even though the box is checked each time to do so.
You may have set it this way on purpose, it might be something Google is pulling off too, but since it is only here right now, I thought you should know.

I've seen a LOT of things built by amateurs that held up longer than those built by the so called professionals!
More so today than in the past too. Amateurs have to make their products stronger or better, because they don't have the technology to make them to near breaking point levels.

Take bigger light bulb companies as an example: They have the technology to make the filament just fine enough it will last 1200 hours then burn out. While the smaller companies don't make them quite that fine, and their bulbs may last 5000 or more hours, and the usually sell for cheaper too.
Speaking of incandescent bulbs, the only kind we bought for home, shop, or greenhouses were all rated at 130 volts instead of 110 or 120 volts. Same voltage bulbs as they used in stop lights and other critical lighting areas. If the box said they were good for 2000 hours at 130 volts, they would last 6000 hours at 120 volts.
Then along came OSHA and we had to replace every exposed to water drip light bulb in our greenhouse with a rubber coated bulb. We did one better, we replaced all the greenhouse lighting with 8 foot power groove fluorescent tubes.
This actually made our electric bill go up instead of down. But then too, we were putting out more footcandles of light than from the incandescent bulbs.

Re: Microsoft vs Bot Nets

Posted: 24 Mar 2020, 17:33
by yogi
I was not aware that the login credentials to this site were not being remembered. I changed the cookies at the last update, but that was about a month ago. I use two accounts here and neither one of them have been forgotten. I would recommend you click on the link that says "remove site cookies" or something like that. You might have the old ones stashed away in your browser and they won't work any more. Once you clear the cookies and re-login, you should be remembered.

A couple days ago I got a letter about the 2020 Census. They want people to go on line and fill out the forms this time around. Those people who don't have computer access will be getting a long form to fill out in the mail. It was all pretty innocuous with one exception. They wanted to know if I were of Hispanic origin, which I always thought was a stupid question. Apparently Hispanic is not a race and the form goes to some length to say so. Thus, when you check off one of the races they offer you have to make an additional entry. Saying you are "White" isn't enough. You have to also say if you are French, German, Italian, or whatever. I never in my life was told that being German, for example, made you a member of a particular race (WWII excluded). My understanding is that there is only one race to begin with, the human race. The rest is all geo-political and ethnicity.

Well, I thought it was stupid and could not answer that question. So I picked Polish because three or four generations back that is where my ancestors lived. If they want clarification, they can call me. Hopefully I will recognize them because I don't answer the phone very often. LOL

Re: Microsoft vs Bot Nets

Posted: 25 Mar 2020, 15:40
by Kellemora
OK, I'll know tomorrow if that works on the log-in screen.

We received the paper form of the census with a postage paid reply envelope to put the response in.
So I did mine by snail mail, I only checked white and didn't check the other boxes, since their was no Holy Roman Empire in the listing of extra's, hi hi. Although we've always considered ourselves as of German descent, more technically we are of German Speaking French descent after individual countries came to exist by name.

I guess the advantage of paper is they can't force you to check a box, hi hi.

My late wife worked with a fellow who's family lived in the Northernmost part of India, as did all of his relatives.
He was born in India, as were both of his parents, but he's black as the ace of spades.
He was able to track back to his great-grandmother who's son was his grandfather was from a black father who didn't look black. That far back shouldn't have caused him to be jet black, and it caused his mother much grief and finger pointing, hi hi. He had a DNA test done, but it is not popular enough in India to show much of anything up, other than prove his mother really is his mother, and his father really is his father, hi hi. When he became a Citizen of the U.S. he had to fight tooth and nail to keep them from putting African-American as his race.

I stopped for a minute to call Debi and ask her about him since she has some stuff written down in her notebook.
Besides English he speaks Shina (his native language), and Kashmiri, since that is where the markets were located.
His entire family and all living relatives who have not moved to the U.S. were born in the India state of Ladakh.
They are not near any foreign border. But inland right where Ladakh, Jammu and Kashmir, and Himachale and Pradesh all meet together forming like a tri-city area. He and his brother moved to the U.S. in 1978, but did not make it to Tennessee until 1984, and finally settled in Seymour (the town south of Knoxville) in 1985. He works for Ace Hardware and his brother works in one of the Blunt County records centers as an imager.

Re: Microsoft vs Bot Nets

Posted: 25 Mar 2020, 17:28
by yogi
I've always been suspicious of the "race" question on the census forms. Aside from it's value as a trivia question I don't understand the need to know such a thing. There has been a lot of discussion regarding citizenship and whether it's proper to ask about it. While I don't like the implications, that is a sensible question. Than again, if I had to design a census I would be lost for legitimate questions. Who are you and where do you live would be my only requirements.

You are the second person to tell me they did not get instructions to fill out the form on the web. I did and there were no options other than to ignore the request and wait for the long form. Apparently Big Brother knows I have a computer and am pretty comfortable with it. Makes sense that they would know. I've had this feeling I'm being monitored by the FBI for many years now. :mrgreen:

This self-isolation is starting to get to me. For the time being all my digital stuff is working fine and dandy. Even Linux is behaving. I don't have much to do now but to find games that are worth playing. LOL

Re: Microsoft vs Bot Nets

Posted: 26 Mar 2020, 15:23
by Kellemora
Knowing the race helps to determine the demographics of an area, which is beneficial for many purposes.

Let's say you've never been to MO and looking to buy a home and can only go by pictures of the home.
Omitting anything that has to do with race from the area demographics.
You could end up buying a home in the middle of Chinatown, or the Ghetto.

It's not only beneficial to whites either. If you were a hair salon who specializes in Afro Styles.
Your shop wouldn't get much business in the heart of Spooktown.

As far as the census goes, I figure if I was a natural born citizen, then I'm not a White - German Immigrant. So on the line that asked, I put American.

Re: Microsoft vs Bot Nets

Posted: 26 Mar 2020, 16:55
by yogi
You put the correct answer in the race box. LOL I believe it all goes back to the fact that the Census Bureau was prohibited from directly asking one's citizenship status. They are trying to deduce it from the way the question is worded.

I might want to know the ethnic composition of the neighborhood I move to or establish a business in. Seems reasonable to want to cater to and deal with people I'm familiar with. I don't get why the federal government would want to know such things as ethnicity or race. Supposedly everybody gets treated the same as far as the feds go. Demographics is a vague justification as well. The theory is that voting districts are created based on who lives where. Again, that seems inconsistent with treating everybody equally if you are going to pick and choose who your constituents are. I am thinking all citizens should all be represented fairly and equally. Personally I'd like to see those voting districts based on a grid of squares instead of the jigsaw puzzle that now exists.

Well, anyway, it really doesn't matter to me. This is very likely the last census I'll have to fill out. Maybe one more, but that's iffy.

Re: Microsoft vs Bot Nets

Posted: 27 Mar 2020, 15:18
by Kellemora
I remember the really BIG 1970 Census that had a zillion employment questions, almost right down to what it was you actually did. A lot of folks were furious over it too. I guess they didn't see the second part was OPTIONAL, and did not contain any identifying codes, and you could mail it in a separate envelope too.
I didn't, I just shoved everything back into the single big reply envelope.
I think it was in 1990, apart from the Census, we received an Occupational Survey from the Federal Government.
You could tear off the top part that had your name and address on it if you wanted to.
No penalty if you didn't respond either. Seems like there were only like four or five simple questions, three of which were simply check boxes and one or two write in areas. I had trouble filling out mine because I was working three jobs, hi hi. But Ruth had fun filling hers out, because they didn't have the right check boxes for her job.

That last part is surprising coming from you. If voting districts were based solely on grid squares, that would hurt the democratic party more than any other party. The current system goes by population density, which is why the larger cities always have more representatives voting on their behalf. I too would prefer a grid system!

Re: Microsoft vs Bot Nets

Posted: 27 Mar 2020, 15:52
by Kellemora
Just popped back in to say whitelisting the site fixed the problem.

Re: Microsoft vs Bot Nets

Posted: 27 Mar 2020, 18:12
by yogi
A voting district is roughly 700,000 people. This figure is used to elect representatives so that the same number of representatives would be elected regardless of how the lines were drawn. The reason grids are not used is because of that population density you cite. However, gerrymandering could easily be remedied with a grid system that does not have to be linear. The graphic shows what happened in Chicago with the current system. That green section is all one district - mostly Republican I might add.


I don't understand exactly what is going on over there, but I'm very happy the login problem is now fixed.

Re: Microsoft vs Bot Nets

Posted: 28 Mar 2020, 14:41
by Kellemora
I don't agree with they way they pick and choose areas either Yogi.

And FWIW: Got the black screen again this morning.
I've been to all the sites I visit in the morning after having had to log into all of them yesterday after the changes I made.
Today, they all logged in just fine, except here.
Looks like the Remember Me button is not saving me.
I have no cookie blockers or ad blockers turned on and this site is whitelisted also.
I'm now thinking the problem is at your end, and happened with that last major upgrade.

Re: Microsoft vs Bot Nets

Posted: 28 Mar 2020, 16:33
by yogi
LOL - I don't want to sound like the typical tech support self-proclaimed expert, but ... it works for me. Don't know why it fails for you. Must be a bug in the software. Wait around a few weeks, month, or years. Maybe the devs will find a fix for it. :rolleyes:

The truth is I would fix it on this end if I could replicate it. So, why don't you give me some details about your setup and I'll see if I can clone it here and duplicate the problem. Tell me what OS you are using so that I can download it and install it if I don't already have a copy. Include the version number and any add-ons you might have installed. Then tell me what browser you are using. I'll need the version number for that too. I know you like to modify things to your liking, so, if you did any of that tell me what it is so that I can do likewise. Also, I'd need to know what active extensions you have installed. If I can replicate your system and create the problem, I will fix it or know the reason why not.

If you want to be daring and have the time, try creating another test account. I'll have to enable it once you register, but that would only set back the experiment one day at the most. You don't have to use it other than to test if there are any login problems associated with the new account. Your current account could be corrupt in some esoteric way and a new account will reveal that.

I don't know what else to suggest at the moment.

Re: Microsoft vs Bot Nets

Posted: 29 Mar 2020, 15:28
by Kellemora
Hi Yogi
I'm on the Silver Yogi running Debian Stretch with the Mate desktop.
Using Google Chrome version 80.0.3987.149, which is the latest version.

It could be Chrome doing it, but it is not affecting any other website.

Ghostery is turned off for this website. Even so, I put this site in the whitelist.
I'm not blocking cookies with the Google Chrome app either, have it set to allow all cookies.

I DO click on the Remember Me button before I hit the log-in button, and it seems it does not remember it.

It's not a big deal, I don't mind having to log-in each day.

If I get a chance later, or tomorrow, I'll try logging in with Firefox to see if that makes a difference, but then I won't know until I try to log-in the following day.

Re: Microsoft vs Bot Nets

Posted: 29 Mar 2020, 17:59
by yogi
We are talking about this problem in two different threads. In an effort try and keep it all in one place I'll close this thread and continue the login discussion in the other thread: ... 716#p41716

Re: Microsoft vs Bot Nets

Posted: 30 Mar 2020, 14:54
by Kellemora
OK Yogi!