Hmm. Take a look at Nuclear Fusion. From what I understand, there is no radioactive waste is it consumes the atoms to make the power. I could be wrong and misunderstood what I've been reading too.
I've also read about Cold Fusion as well, but it is going nowhere fast.
I agree with the radioactive waste from Nuclear Power Plants, and there are TONS of it, and very dangerous too.
I also agree that we may discover something else entirely that has no byproducts of any kind, which can create power.
As far as those air-pump we had in the '60s they didn't run for free, it took power from the cars engine which did in fact reduce gas mileage. Not by much. It was the silly way they went about doing emissions testing. The cars actually polluted more with the pump than without the pump. And this EGR system still on cars and trucks is just as much nonsense.
Albeit, it does keep the gasses that leak into the rocker area from the split in piston rings, and leaky valve stems from building up in the engine. So the EGR does serve a purpose, but it is not to make cleaner air.
Quality Ovens like you have in your home, have a super hot heating element inside a box inside the stove. It takes power to run this heating element. It's purpose is like that of a catalytic converter. It takes the smoke from your oven and reburns it, so you don't get smoke from your oven into your house. However, a range hood should be vented to outside to get rid of those gasses your oven does emit when baking or broiling. In many of today's homes, they just have a range hood that dumps the air back into your kitchen, albeit many use a carbon based filter in them. Nevertheless, it is still better to send the exhaust outside.
Servers, Multiple
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Re: Servers, Multiple
Back in the 60's it suddenly dawned on the political community that millions of tons of gasoline were being pumped into the atmosphere for us to breath in. The Arabs were also acting up back then as they are today so that the powers that be figured out that it might be a good idea to cut back on fossil fuel consumption. Thus the mandate to increase fleet MPG for all vehicles and the legislation to clean up the exhaust from motor vehicles. It wasn't perfect but it was working to some degree. We used less oil and the air was cleaner. So, then, when things got better the emphasis turned to making bigger vehicles, i.e., SUV's that use up a lot more energy than the small sedans that nobody wanted to buy. Well we are back at that epiphany stage where they are trying to figure out how to make the Arabs rich without choking ourselves to death. Thus electric cars are now being promoted.
Many of the new homes these days do not have a kitchen exhaust fan. Installing one would add a couple hundred dollars to the cost of that $350,000 house so that the general contractors are reducing their costs by not installing things they can get away with omitting. The greatest drawback is that all that grease we use for cooking evaporates and then sticks to the walls, the ceiling, the furniture, and our lungs. If I had my way I would make a law to have exhaust fans installed in every new kitchen ever built.
Fusion, cold or otherwise, is a scientists' dream that may never become practical. You are correct about today's reactors working by blowing apart uranium atoms and releasing heat. Kind of like a controlled atomic bomb. Fusion is just the opposite. You take those loose atoms and force them to combine, thus change energy levels and release heat. I dunno, Gary. Did you ever try to push two atoms together and force them to stick? Well it takes about as much electricity running electromagnets to do that as it takes to run the city of Knoxville for a month or two. And that creates only a few MICROSECONDS of energy. Fusion is a nice idea for clean fuel, but it ain't gonna happen in our lifetimes.
Many of the new homes these days do not have a kitchen exhaust fan. Installing one would add a couple hundred dollars to the cost of that $350,000 house so that the general contractors are reducing their costs by not installing things they can get away with omitting. The greatest drawback is that all that grease we use for cooking evaporates and then sticks to the walls, the ceiling, the furniture, and our lungs. If I had my way I would make a law to have exhaust fans installed in every new kitchen ever built.
Fusion, cold or otherwise, is a scientists' dream that may never become practical. You are correct about today's reactors working by blowing apart uranium atoms and releasing heat. Kind of like a controlled atomic bomb. Fusion is just the opposite. You take those loose atoms and force them to combine, thus change energy levels and release heat. I dunno, Gary. Did you ever try to push two atoms together and force them to stick? Well it takes about as much electricity running electromagnets to do that as it takes to run the city of Knoxville for a month or two. And that creates only a few MICROSECONDS of energy. Fusion is a nice idea for clean fuel, but it ain't gonna happen in our lifetimes.
Re: Servers, Multiple
I do agree that the hydrocarbons spewed into the air by the increase in automobiles was something that needed to be addressed. How they originally went about it, by purposely falsifying data the test machines read, only drives home my point once again, about how government regulations and solutions actually create more of a problem.
Yes, we do need to do something about the air pollution. Especially the air pollution from all the mining equipment used to extract the raw materials needed to build a dangerous and highly flammable Lithium battery. And how much more pollution will be added from the disposal of those batteries, if they burn up in the car killing people first.
I agree with you on the exhaust fans to outdoors in all kitchens.
Maybe not on Fusion, but we will come up with something else I'm sure.
Solar Panels reflecting the suns rays back up to our atmosphere is going to be a big problem as more and more or built.
It can heat up clouds enough they don't produce rain where rain is needed the most.
And wind power has not yet reached a point where it is financially feasible for those making those things.
And look at the amount of oil they use, and how long they last. Landfill heaven for most of them.
Without government subsidies, not a single one of them is profitable, and they kill eagles.
Yes, we do need to do something about the air pollution. Especially the air pollution from all the mining equipment used to extract the raw materials needed to build a dangerous and highly flammable Lithium battery. And how much more pollution will be added from the disposal of those batteries, if they burn up in the car killing people first.
I agree with you on the exhaust fans to outdoors in all kitchens.
Maybe not on Fusion, but we will come up with something else I'm sure.
Solar Panels reflecting the suns rays back up to our atmosphere is going to be a big problem as more and more or built.
It can heat up clouds enough they don't produce rain where rain is needed the most.
And wind power has not yet reached a point where it is financially feasible for those making those things.
And look at the amount of oil they use, and how long they last. Landfill heaven for most of them.
Without government subsidies, not a single one of them is profitable, and they kill eagles.
Re: Servers, Multiple
Back when anti pollution became a big issue and the government stomped on the automobile manufacturers, there was some tweaking of the numbers. The tweaking, however was done by the manufacturers, not the government directly. At first the demanded increase in MPG was an absolute number, or a percentage compared to a standard. But then Ford, GM, and Chrysler found out that they could not meet the standards and maintain high profits. Thus thy lobbied congress and congress changed the wording to "fleet mileage" which was an average and not an absolute number. Thus most of their products could not meet the new standard, but a few, very few, did to raise the average number. Eventually even that Fleet Milage number got tossed, Trump did a lot to fix that, and now I am not certain that there is any requirements left for fuel burning efficiency. The congressmen were willing to change the laws, because the lobbyists had deep pockets when it came to political campaign contributions. Oddly enough that is the same era when they changed the laws so that large donations do not have to have a source attached to the records.
The Green Team now is pushing for electric vehicles to replace the gas engines that currently dominate. The intention is good and you are correct to point out that energy is being used to produce those batteries. Not nearly as much as is being used to drill and refine oil, but yes. It takes a lot to make a battery. The problem as I see it will be the limited supply of lithium. It's not as prolific as crude oil, albeit there is a lot: about 70 years worth of automobile batteries. Maybe by then those mini nuclear reactors will be common place.
I don't know about the logic behind solar panels killing off rain clouds. LOL They do reflect sunlight, but then so do the oceans. There will never be as many solar panels as there is surface water in the oceans so that I don't see how solar panel reflections would matter in the least. The atmosphere is indeed heating up, but it's not due to solar panels. It's the natural Ice Age phenomena If I recall correctly.
The Green Team now is pushing for electric vehicles to replace the gas engines that currently dominate. The intention is good and you are correct to point out that energy is being used to produce those batteries. Not nearly as much as is being used to drill and refine oil, but yes. It takes a lot to make a battery. The problem as I see it will be the limited supply of lithium. It's not as prolific as crude oil, albeit there is a lot: about 70 years worth of automobile batteries. Maybe by then those mini nuclear reactors will be common place.
I don't know about the logic behind solar panels killing off rain clouds. LOL They do reflect sunlight, but then so do the oceans. There will never be as many solar panels as there is surface water in the oceans so that I don't see how solar panel reflections would matter in the least. The atmosphere is indeed heating up, but it's not due to solar panels. It's the natural Ice Age phenomena If I recall correctly.
Re: Servers, Multiple
The could, if they wanted to, make a car that gets 200 mpg, but the big oil companies put a stop to that real quick.
Personally, I don't think electric vehicles are very efficient, especially when you look at the Whole Big Picture.
We have a HUGE Solar Farm not far from us. And having ORNL close by with lots of scientists, they have been making quite a bit of data about some of the climate altering aspects of that big solar farm. So much so, they had a law passed here that requires the solar panels not to reflect sunlight to the same points, unless reflective panels are used purposely to focus sunlight on a steam boiler.
What they found by flying drones back and forth over the solar farm in question, was that they hit spots in the air where the temperature was exceeding 300 degrees. Some of these focal points were low, and some way up high.
Then of course some company came out with a device to set on each solar panel to get the focal point.
And of course the computer whizzes came up with a grid pattern so that each solar panel can be focused to a different row of cells in the grid.
I think one of the readings they did get, at like 150 feet in the air, was over 500 degrees, so those solar panels were the first to be adjusted to the new grid program. At least the sun follows a known trajectory across the sky, slightly different each day, but once the solar panels are aligned, they all shift to a different row of cells on the grid as the day progresses and the seasons change.
I may be wrong or remember wrong about how they discovered this. But it seems to me it had to do when the fog rolled across from the lake. A blanket of fog should be fairly uniform. But over the solar farm they noticed several perfectly clear areas in the fog that should not have been there. And in some places the fog cleared up instantly over certain parts of the solar farm, and a little slower over other parts. In fact, most of the fog dissipated by the time it crossed the solar farm area, when it did not on either side of the solar farm.
Although the ocean does reflect some of the light back, a lot of it is absorbed to help heat the water.
Personally, I don't think electric vehicles are very efficient, especially when you look at the Whole Big Picture.
We have a HUGE Solar Farm not far from us. And having ORNL close by with lots of scientists, they have been making quite a bit of data about some of the climate altering aspects of that big solar farm. So much so, they had a law passed here that requires the solar panels not to reflect sunlight to the same points, unless reflective panels are used purposely to focus sunlight on a steam boiler.
What they found by flying drones back and forth over the solar farm in question, was that they hit spots in the air where the temperature was exceeding 300 degrees. Some of these focal points were low, and some way up high.
Then of course some company came out with a device to set on each solar panel to get the focal point.
And of course the computer whizzes came up with a grid pattern so that each solar panel can be focused to a different row of cells in the grid.
I think one of the readings they did get, at like 150 feet in the air, was over 500 degrees, so those solar panels were the first to be adjusted to the new grid program. At least the sun follows a known trajectory across the sky, slightly different each day, but once the solar panels are aligned, they all shift to a different row of cells on the grid as the day progresses and the seasons change.
I may be wrong or remember wrong about how they discovered this. But it seems to me it had to do when the fog rolled across from the lake. A blanket of fog should be fairly uniform. But over the solar farm they noticed several perfectly clear areas in the fog that should not have been there. And in some places the fog cleared up instantly over certain parts of the solar farm, and a little slower over other parts. In fact, most of the fog dissipated by the time it crossed the solar farm area, when it did not on either side of the solar farm.
Although the ocean does reflect some of the light back, a lot of it is absorbed to help heat the water.
Re: Servers, Multiple
Those Oak Ridge boys are pretty clever. I have to admit that. This is only a guess but I don't think the oceans focus the sunlight and create peaks and troughs in the air temperatures above them. They do radiate their own heat as well as reflect back the sunlight. In fact the heating of the ocean waters in the south Pacific is what is changing the jet stream air currents and thus encouraging climate change. It's not so much a matter of how hot the air above the oceans gets, but rather the volume of air. That south Pacific is one big place, you know?
I have in fact read stories about how auto manufacturers buy inventions from independents, patent them, and then promptly stow them away for safe keeping in case anybody thinks they can use them to improve performance. It sounds like a conspiracy theory, but I also know there is something called the "Not Invented Here" syndrome. The automobile people have no financial stake in the oil industry. Don't you think that if they sold a gas powered car that can do 200 mpg that everybody in the US would buy one? Well, almost everybody. That would be good for business. The oil companies might not like it, but why would GM or Ford care about them? Not only that, but it would solve the problem of high gas prices. We could supply all the crude oil we need from, say, Louisianan alone. And I don't think they drill much oil. LOL
I have in fact read stories about how auto manufacturers buy inventions from independents, patent them, and then promptly stow them away for safe keeping in case anybody thinks they can use them to improve performance. It sounds like a conspiracy theory, but I also know there is something called the "Not Invented Here" syndrome. The automobile people have no financial stake in the oil industry. Don't you think that if they sold a gas powered car that can do 200 mpg that everybody in the US would buy one? Well, almost everybody. That would be good for business. The oil companies might not like it, but why would GM or Ford care about them? Not only that, but it would solve the problem of high gas prices. We could supply all the crude oil we need from, say, Louisianan alone. And I don't think they drill much oil. LOL
Re: Servers, Multiple
The jet streams moving around has always been a challenge to air transportation and messing up their routes all the time. Probably a bit more so in more recent years.
The Oil Companies are who buy up these inventions long before the automakers get their hands on them.
At one time Locomotives ran on Steam, using wood or coal to generate the heat. Coal won out for many years.
Then came the Diesel Locomotives, which at first had gears and a drive train.
Then they converted to Electric Drive, using the Diesel engines to generate the electric.
It was more efficient to use the Diesel Engine to run a Dynamo to power the train, than conventional gearing.
I had two opportunities to drive Hydraulic Drive cars, because my uncle worked at Ford where they were experimenting with them. The first was a pain in the arse to drive, but the second worked almost like a normal car and it was great.
But in the end, even though they used smaller motors to drive the hydraulic pumps, there was no real difference in fuel savings.
When you have like 140 nations flying their private jets to a conference on global warming, the amount of fuel they burn is astronomical compared to other transportation methods. Most of them live in monster size houses that use tons of fuel to keep the heated or cooled. And there sole purpose is to tell US to cut back on what we use, while they use 100 times more than any one of us.
I've often wondered why the automotive industry didn't take their example from the Diesel Locomotives for their electric cars. Rather than those massive and expensive batteries, they could have used a small fuel efficient turbine engine to run a small dynamo to power the electric for the car. Ah yes, I know they do have some hybrid cars, but that's not the same.
We look back in history at how people heated their homes, and it has changed drastically every half-century. And it has always become more efficient as well. Cars of today are more efficient than in the 1900's. But the electric cars of the 1900s died out really fast. I see the same thing happening with the battery powered electric cars of today. Only a Fad for the wealthy, until the get rid of those expensive and short lived batteries.
The Oil Companies are who buy up these inventions long before the automakers get their hands on them.
At one time Locomotives ran on Steam, using wood or coal to generate the heat. Coal won out for many years.
Then came the Diesel Locomotives, which at first had gears and a drive train.
Then they converted to Electric Drive, using the Diesel engines to generate the electric.
It was more efficient to use the Diesel Engine to run a Dynamo to power the train, than conventional gearing.
I had two opportunities to drive Hydraulic Drive cars, because my uncle worked at Ford where they were experimenting with them. The first was a pain in the arse to drive, but the second worked almost like a normal car and it was great.
But in the end, even though they used smaller motors to drive the hydraulic pumps, there was no real difference in fuel savings.
When you have like 140 nations flying their private jets to a conference on global warming, the amount of fuel they burn is astronomical compared to other transportation methods. Most of them live in monster size houses that use tons of fuel to keep the heated or cooled. And there sole purpose is to tell US to cut back on what we use, while they use 100 times more than any one of us.
I've often wondered why the automotive industry didn't take their example from the Diesel Locomotives for their electric cars. Rather than those massive and expensive batteries, they could have used a small fuel efficient turbine engine to run a small dynamo to power the electric for the car. Ah yes, I know they do have some hybrid cars, but that's not the same.
We look back in history at how people heated their homes, and it has changed drastically every half-century. And it has always become more efficient as well. Cars of today are more efficient than in the 1900's. But the electric cars of the 1900s died out really fast. I see the same thing happening with the battery powered electric cars of today. Only a Fad for the wealthy, until the get rid of those expensive and short lived batteries.
Re: Servers, Multiple
The change in the jet stream flow is doing more than messing up flight routes. It used to be a consistent west to east flow of air, but now a north/south flow is frequently observed. The hot air is going up the west coast right into the Arctic to melt the ice and snow. It's so warm at times that the temperatures actually go above freezing at the pole. Quite a bit of the permafrost in Canada and Alaska has been receding for several years now. Of course we are not at the point where bananas will be growing in the Arctic Circle. We are at the point where Knoxville and other southern metropolises are seeing unusually cold temperatures due to the fact that the arctic air being displaced has to go somewhere.
About 360 million gallons of gasoline are being consumed in a single day. You will have a hard time convincing me that 140 jumbo jets on a single round trip are consuming more than that. LOL
It's hard to imagine where the automobile industry will be even 25 years from now. You might think electric cars are just a fad but some big money is being invested into things such as charging stations. The money is where the future is in most cases. I do think that for various reasons the gasoline powered engines dominating today will be phased out or greatly reduced in numbers. Exactly how that happens will be interesting to see.
About 360 million gallons of gasoline are being consumed in a single day. You will have a hard time convincing me that 140 jumbo jets on a single round trip are consuming more than that. LOL
It's hard to imagine where the automobile industry will be even 25 years from now. You might think electric cars are just a fad but some big money is being invested into things such as charging stations. The money is where the future is in most cases. I do think that for various reasons the gasoline powered engines dominating today will be phased out or greatly reduced in numbers. Exactly how that happens will be interesting to see.
Re: Servers, Multiple
The climate will change one way or another all around the globe. Heck the Sahara desert could become a forest again.
I think a Lear Jet consumes more fuel in an hour, than I do in a whole year!
I didn't say the cars would not be electric. I'm saying they will probably be powered by something other than a massive battery as their sole source of power. I don't see how the electrical grid can handle even 1/10th of folks switching to electric cars that need charged from the grid. I also do not know a single person who could afford to buy one of them, unless they can already afford super high priced luxury cars. I'll just keep driving my '97 Blazer as long as possible! I never go anywhere anyhow except to doctors appointments.
I think a Lear Jet consumes more fuel in an hour, than I do in a whole year!
I didn't say the cars would not be electric. I'm saying they will probably be powered by something other than a massive battery as their sole source of power. I don't see how the electrical grid can handle even 1/10th of folks switching to electric cars that need charged from the grid. I also do not know a single person who could afford to buy one of them, unless they can already afford super high priced luxury cars. I'll just keep driving my '97 Blazer as long as possible! I never go anywhere anyhow except to doctors appointments.
Re: Servers, Multiple
I have a lot of confidence that the electric energy production in this country is nowhere near what it could be. When demand increases so does supply, and that is why your electric bill keeps increasing. They need to build more infrastructure as consumption grows. I also think there will be portable charging stations that do not rely on the grid. I have already seen working electric cars that use solar panels to get around. The only problem there is that they look ugly. A solar powered charging station in every house would not be any more impractical than building a few hundred, or a few thousand, more generating stations.
You bring up an excellent point about the price of these new and improved cars. It's getting very expensive to buy a car new or even used, and that is a huge problem for a place like this which depends on automobiles for our daily existence. If the price trend keeps up we may have to go back to the good old days where we walked to wherever it was we wanted to be.
You bring up an excellent point about the price of these new and improved cars. It's getting very expensive to buy a car new or even used, and that is a huge problem for a place like this which depends on automobiles for our daily existence. If the price trend keeps up we may have to go back to the good old days where we walked to wherever it was we wanted to be.
Re: Servers, Multiple
I ran my house in Creve Coeur for a full year on a China Diesel, and broke out even, within plus or minus 3 dollars in fuel and maintenance. Now, if I would have been able to sell electric to even one neighbor, I would have made a splendid profit, and if I could have sold to four neighbors, I would have been on easy street. But it was illegal to do. And I still had to pay my monthly minimum electric bill, even though they had cut me off and pulled my meter.
The only reason I got by with it in the first place was I had a lawsuit going against Union Electric for destroying several Ham Radio Coaxial cables, and antenna rotor wires. Plus, when they cut me off, they cut off the pigtails from my weatherhead, which was my property, not theirs.
They said they cut it off their because I had reconnected to the electric service, and they wanted to prevent me from doing that. Fortunately, that didn't hold water in a court of law, because they could have cut the feed at the pole, rather than damage privately owned property. I won that part of the case easily. Plus I got paid for all the coax runs and cable wires they cut out of orneriness. Plus I got a one-year reprieve on my minimum monthly charge. And they had to pay an electrician to come out and place new wires from the meter basin to the weatherhead before they could reconnect me to their service.
There was enough residual money from this lawsuit that it paid for my electric for about 8 months after I was reconnected.
For once the squeaky wheel got the grease, even if it took over a year to do so.
And I was able to sell my huge China Diesel for only about 50 bucks less than I paid for it with installation.
Bought a small gasoline generator to put in its place for when the power went out.
The only reason I got by with it in the first place was I had a lawsuit going against Union Electric for destroying several Ham Radio Coaxial cables, and antenna rotor wires. Plus, when they cut me off, they cut off the pigtails from my weatherhead, which was my property, not theirs.
They said they cut it off their because I had reconnected to the electric service, and they wanted to prevent me from doing that. Fortunately, that didn't hold water in a court of law, because they could have cut the feed at the pole, rather than damage privately owned property. I won that part of the case easily. Plus I got paid for all the coax runs and cable wires they cut out of orneriness. Plus I got a one-year reprieve on my minimum monthly charge. And they had to pay an electrician to come out and place new wires from the meter basin to the weatherhead before they could reconnect me to their service.
There was enough residual money from this lawsuit that it paid for my electric for about 8 months after I was reconnected.
For once the squeaky wheel got the grease, even if it took over a year to do so.
And I was able to sell my huge China Diesel for only about 50 bucks less than I paid for it with installation.
Bought a small gasoline generator to put in its place for when the power went out.
Re: Servers, Multiple
There probably is some logic behind the law that forces you to pay the electric company even if you are generating your own power. I don't see what it could be, but they might have explained it in that law suit you won. When it comes to privately recharging your own automobile battery, I doubt that would be prohibited. As you suggested, it would relieve the power company of the burden to improve its infrastructure. All I had back at the old place was a transformer at the corner of my lot. It was on MY property, but I had to allow access by the power company and keep the area around it clear so that they can get to the box. There was no other place to put that transformer, other than in the middle of the public road. When it comes down to details I guess I had no choice but to provide the easement because doing that was a condition of getting an occupancy permit. So, all the houses must accept power from the power company whether they liked it or not. I can't imagine why anyone would not like it. Well, unless they happen to have a spare China Diesel laying around their garage.
Re: Servers, Multiple
Every home in St. Louis County, by Law, must be connected to the public Electric Utility, as well as Water if water runs there, and Sewers if sewers run there.
When Debi's mom and dad built their house, the one I'm living in now. They did have Electric, but no Sewer, and the Water was not yet up this far.
In order to build a house on their lot, they had to agree to an Electrical Connection, and agree to a Water connection if and when they ever got it up this far.
Until Debi was around 12 years old, they still had an outhouse, and no Water or Sewer yet.
When they built the house, they did have a small temporary cistern of only like 3 or 5 hundred gallons.
It consisted of nothing more than a concrete large diameter sewer pipe section with a concrete floor poured in it, and a flat wooden cover with shingles on the cover, and of course a hand pump to fill buckets of water. Like my grandpa on my mom's side had.
Wastewater from their kitchen sink, went through a pipe under the driveway to an underground GI can filled with large gravel.
Once the new water mains were laid, they had to install a Septic Tank in the front yard, and the field lines, even though they did not yet have an indoor toilet, that was coming as soon as they could build an indoor bathroom.
Supply plumbing was added for the new bathroom, and the toilet was connected to the septic tank, and of course the vent went out through the roof, all cast iron. Then they added supply water to the kitchen, but still used their existing drain for another year or so, before connecting it to the soil stack that was installed for the toilet and bathroom tub and sink.
Along with the addition of the Sewer system came a Law that required they connect to the new sewer system, and abandon the septic tank.
What used to be the cistern was used as a place to dump their garbage that didn't burn until it was full, hi hi. Then they just kept mounding it on top, until they finally got a trash hauling service in this area.
Telephones did not come until about 2 years after the electric was brought in.
I guess it was about the same in most growing cities as they expanded into the once rural parts around the city.
When Debi's mom and dad built their house, the one I'm living in now. They did have Electric, but no Sewer, and the Water was not yet up this far.
In order to build a house on their lot, they had to agree to an Electrical Connection, and agree to a Water connection if and when they ever got it up this far.
Until Debi was around 12 years old, they still had an outhouse, and no Water or Sewer yet.
When they built the house, they did have a small temporary cistern of only like 3 or 5 hundred gallons.
It consisted of nothing more than a concrete large diameter sewer pipe section with a concrete floor poured in it, and a flat wooden cover with shingles on the cover, and of course a hand pump to fill buckets of water. Like my grandpa on my mom's side had.
Wastewater from their kitchen sink, went through a pipe under the driveway to an underground GI can filled with large gravel.
Once the new water mains were laid, they had to install a Septic Tank in the front yard, and the field lines, even though they did not yet have an indoor toilet, that was coming as soon as they could build an indoor bathroom.
Supply plumbing was added for the new bathroom, and the toilet was connected to the septic tank, and of course the vent went out through the roof, all cast iron. Then they added supply water to the kitchen, but still used their existing drain for another year or so, before connecting it to the soil stack that was installed for the toilet and bathroom tub and sink.
Along with the addition of the Sewer system came a Law that required they connect to the new sewer system, and abandon the septic tank.
What used to be the cistern was used as a place to dump their garbage that didn't burn until it was full, hi hi. Then they just kept mounding it on top, until they finally got a trash hauling service in this area.
Telephones did not come until about 2 years after the electric was brought in.
I guess it was about the same in most growing cities as they expanded into the once rural parts around the city.
Re: Servers, Multiple
The only memories I have of using outdoor plumbing was on grandpa Stanley's farm. The wooden seat was tolerable to me as a kid, but those damned flies were buzzing around in all the wrong places. I actually would go out into the fields and find a bush to do my thing and refused to use the outhouses. Fortunately we didn't visit grandpa all that often. It's hard to imagine life before the 1900's where there was no running water, sewers, or electric. Yet, that was the normal way of life up until relatively recent times. There also was no health care, which is something that really makes me wonder. How did people survive without medications or doctors to dispense them? The answer to that is obvious. They didn't do well and didn't live nearly as long as we are today. I guess that's why they had so many children too. The survival rate wasn't all that great. Then, too, they didn't have television or the Internet back then either.
Re: Servers, Multiple
I've used many an outhouse over my early years. The key to using them, and I've often wondered why they didn't explode. In the winter we carried a kerosene lantern with us, and held it down under the seat to warm up the boards a bit before sitting down. You hit a cold seat and your butt hole tightens up, hi hi. When it was really cold outside, grandpa left a kerosene light hanging down in the hole on a piece of branch laying across the seat. You lifted it out and set it beside you while doing your business, and then he had this big bag of Lime, so if you did a #2, you sprinkled a little lime into the hole. Then put the kerosene lamp back in place. The particular lamp he used for this did not put out a whole lot of light, because it had a metal sleeve with holes in it around the globe to make it produce more heat, and the tank was about a 1/2 gallon size tank too.
In grandpa's house, before electric, they had ceiling fixtures you pulled down using a hook to refill and light for at night. Plus several wall mounted down around eye level. Grandma's happiest day was when the old cast iron cookstove was hauled out and a fancy new propane powered gas range moved in. Meant she could sleep an hour later in the morning before starting breakfast for her hubby and the few hired hands they had at that time.
Electric was a big deal when it was brought in, they still had no plugs per se, the pair of open wires were on flat insulators connected to the ceiling, one light in the living room, one light in the bedroom, and one light in the kitchen was all they had at that time. Pull chains worked the lights, and the electric meter was on the utility pole down by the road.
Scarlet Fever wiped out several of what would be my aunt's and uncle's had they lived. I supposed this is what was a common cause of death in the 1800's and early 1900's. If you made it past the age of 10, there was a good chance you would make it to at least 60 years of age, unless you were shot first, hi hi.
In grandpa's house, before electric, they had ceiling fixtures you pulled down using a hook to refill and light for at night. Plus several wall mounted down around eye level. Grandma's happiest day was when the old cast iron cookstove was hauled out and a fancy new propane powered gas range moved in. Meant she could sleep an hour later in the morning before starting breakfast for her hubby and the few hired hands they had at that time.
Electric was a big deal when it was brought in, they still had no plugs per se, the pair of open wires were on flat insulators connected to the ceiling, one light in the living room, one light in the bedroom, and one light in the kitchen was all they had at that time. Pull chains worked the lights, and the electric meter was on the utility pole down by the road.
Scarlet Fever wiped out several of what would be my aunt's and uncle's had they lived. I supposed this is what was a common cause of death in the 1800's and early 1900's. If you made it past the age of 10, there was a good chance you would make it to at least 60 years of age, unless you were shot first, hi hi.
Re: Servers, Multiple
Kerosene toilet warmers ... I can only imagine.
I do have some fond memories of grandpa's farm and Kerosene lamps. Grandpa raised rabbits and some of the hutches were in one room buildings large enough to live in. I recall eating some rabbit back then, and even as a kid the taste wasn't all that bad. As they say, kind of like chicken. LOL Well a couple of the hutches were converted into cabins for when the relatives came out to visit. They had no water nor electric nor any means of heating the room. They did have furniture, some of which grandpa made by hand. It was not uncommon to stay and visit the farm for a couple days so that we got to sleep in those rabbit hutches. When it got dark there were kerosene lamps lit before bedtime. We played games such as checkers and read books for entertainment, and then it was time to sleep. The lamp went out and I recall laying in bed unable to fall asleep due to all the noise. It's amazing how much noise all the bugs and other critters made when the sun went down. I don't think I ever experienced such nights at any other time in my life. Might have something to do with not being interested in camping. LOL
I recall getting a vaccination for the gods only know what. It was something like a tattoo and about the size of a dime on my left upper arm. The scar stayed visible for many years but I'm unable to locate it today. That was a required vaccination in order to attend school. I also remember the polio shot. That was totally painless which is why I recall it. The doctor pinched the skin and injected the needle in the pinch. He claimed that is what made it less painful. Those vaccinations and injections must have done some good because here I am about to be 78 years old and still around to write about it.
I do have some fond memories of grandpa's farm and Kerosene lamps. Grandpa raised rabbits and some of the hutches were in one room buildings large enough to live in. I recall eating some rabbit back then, and even as a kid the taste wasn't all that bad. As they say, kind of like chicken. LOL Well a couple of the hutches were converted into cabins for when the relatives came out to visit. They had no water nor electric nor any means of heating the room. They did have furniture, some of which grandpa made by hand. It was not uncommon to stay and visit the farm for a couple days so that we got to sleep in those rabbit hutches. When it got dark there were kerosene lamps lit before bedtime. We played games such as checkers and read books for entertainment, and then it was time to sleep. The lamp went out and I recall laying in bed unable to fall asleep due to all the noise. It's amazing how much noise all the bugs and other critters made when the sun went down. I don't think I ever experienced such nights at any other time in my life. Might have something to do with not being interested in camping. LOL
I recall getting a vaccination for the gods only know what. It was something like a tattoo and about the size of a dime on my left upper arm. The scar stayed visible for many years but I'm unable to locate it today. That was a required vaccination in order to attend school. I also remember the polio shot. That was totally painless which is why I recall it. The doctor pinched the skin and injected the needle in the pinch. He claimed that is what made it less painful. Those vaccinations and injections must have done some good because here I am about to be 78 years old and still around to write about it.
Re: Servers, Multiple
I know about the noises in the night in the great outdoors. I've spent many a night at the edge of a corn field, along a river bank, and other places in the wilderness.
On an interesting note: The sounds of the night here are quite a bit different than they are in Vietnam. Different kinds of animals and bugs I assume. It only takes one gunshot and it becomes as quiet as church confessional, hi hi.
One of my older aunts, probably a great-aunt now that I think about it, lived in a tiny little stone house that wasn't bigger than possibly 10 feet by 18 feet if it was that long. Under the house was a 6 foot tall sorta like a basement, and they kept it full of rabbits in the winter, and her son had to clean it out every night before dark.
Give credit where credit is due, he was a real tinkerer and had lots of ideas he put to use. Such as in the rabbit area.
He built a wooden beam floor with 1 x 2 wire screening as the floor the rabbits were on, when they were not in their hutches.
Somehow he got them all to use the front edge by the door for liquid waste, and the other front corner for most of their solid pellet manufacturing business. That way all he had to do was use a long handled hoe to clean that thing out every night. He also fed them along the center line, but closer toward the back, because they won't go potty near their food.
In the summer, the rabbits were outside in off the ground cages, but there were not many in the summer, a few adults who had tons of babies by the next winter. But I don't know what they did with them, probably some for food, and the rest were probably sold for pelts I imagine.
I think the big round mark in our arm was for Scarlet Fever, but I could be wrong. I still have mine, it never went away.
That was before they came out with the polio vaccine, and it's a good thing they did as I had a slight touch of polio myself, that make my legs bow slightly. At least I never wound up in an iron lung and am grateful for that.
On an interesting note: The sounds of the night here are quite a bit different than they are in Vietnam. Different kinds of animals and bugs I assume. It only takes one gunshot and it becomes as quiet as church confessional, hi hi.
One of my older aunts, probably a great-aunt now that I think about it, lived in a tiny little stone house that wasn't bigger than possibly 10 feet by 18 feet if it was that long. Under the house was a 6 foot tall sorta like a basement, and they kept it full of rabbits in the winter, and her son had to clean it out every night before dark.
Give credit where credit is due, he was a real tinkerer and had lots of ideas he put to use. Such as in the rabbit area.
He built a wooden beam floor with 1 x 2 wire screening as the floor the rabbits were on, when they were not in their hutches.
Somehow he got them all to use the front edge by the door for liquid waste, and the other front corner for most of their solid pellet manufacturing business. That way all he had to do was use a long handled hoe to clean that thing out every night. He also fed them along the center line, but closer toward the back, because they won't go potty near their food.
In the summer, the rabbits were outside in off the ground cages, but there were not many in the summer, a few adults who had tons of babies by the next winter. But I don't know what they did with them, probably some for food, and the rest were probably sold for pelts I imagine.
I think the big round mark in our arm was for Scarlet Fever, but I could be wrong. I still have mine, it never went away.
That was before they came out with the polio vaccine, and it's a good thing they did as I had a slight touch of polio myself, that make my legs bow slightly. At least I never wound up in an iron lung and am grateful for that.
Re: Servers, Multiple
You probably are right about that vaccination being for scarlet fever. Looking back at the experience I can't see why they had to do it the way they did. I recall the needle making a humming noise, which I imagine is a lot like a tattoo artist's needle. It was painful and I cried a little bit. I recall the nurse doing something like applying a bandage. Odd how such a memory still can be recalled at this age. That vaccination had to be done at least 70 years ago. I guess it was slightly traumatic and that is why it stuck in my memory. But still, that's a long time to hold a grudge.
I also recall seeing pictures of kids in iron lungs. That impressed me to the point where I actually looked forward to the polio shot. LOL
There has been occasions for me to sit out in the dark night and enjoy the ambiance. I did that a few times at my last house where there was a small forest attached to my property. The sounds were nothing like the farm sounds. I lived close to O'Hare International, for example, and those jets kept flying well into the darkness. That's one thing I love about my Missouri home. I don't sit out on the deck and watch the sun set, but I also don't hear very many commercial jets. I do however see them early in the morning, around sunrise, while I'm eating breakfast. I look out the window to the southeast and frequently will see what could be mistaken for a UFO. A bright light shines in the sky, appears to be stationary, and gets brighter. I've concluded that it's the path to Lambeau Field runways. Those lights are coming directly at me for a while, but then vanish. The aircraft obviously makes a right turn to get into the glide path to the airport and I no longer see its brilliant headlights. But, I do see one or two others coming down the same path. It's really cool when there are clouds in the sky. I just feel sorry for anybody coming in for a landing at 6 o'clock in the morning. That's an insane hour to be in an airplane. LOL
I also recall seeing pictures of kids in iron lungs. That impressed me to the point where I actually looked forward to the polio shot. LOL
There has been occasions for me to sit out in the dark night and enjoy the ambiance. I did that a few times at my last house where there was a small forest attached to my property. The sounds were nothing like the farm sounds. I lived close to O'Hare International, for example, and those jets kept flying well into the darkness. That's one thing I love about my Missouri home. I don't sit out on the deck and watch the sun set, but I also don't hear very many commercial jets. I do however see them early in the morning, around sunrise, while I'm eating breakfast. I look out the window to the southeast and frequently will see what could be mistaken for a UFO. A bright light shines in the sky, appears to be stationary, and gets brighter. I've concluded that it's the path to Lambeau Field runways. Those lights are coming directly at me for a while, but then vanish. The aircraft obviously makes a right turn to get into the glide path to the airport and I no longer see its brilliant headlights. But, I do see one or two others coming down the same path. It's really cool when there are clouds in the sky. I just feel sorry for anybody coming in for a landing at 6 o'clock in the morning. That's an insane hour to be in an airplane. LOL
Re: Servers, Multiple
I don't remember any type of machine for the hole in my arm. Seemed like it was a circular plate with holes in it, like the lid of a Rubber Tire Repair Kit so you could scratch the rubber. Only this thing they shoved into your arm and gave a twist. At least that is how I remember it. Then some ointment that stung to high heaven and a big bandage.
When I was YOUNG, like Toddler age, there were two airports, Smart Field military, and Lambert Field commercial.
Later on they just became one huge place. Years later when I started flying, I never once went near Lambert Field, I was too scared to, hi hi. But there was an OMNI which we used as homing beacons, and the one I zeroed in on was called the Smart Field OMNI although it was no where near Smart Field. I learned later that it did start out at Smart Field before it got moved out to near the St. Charles area, but just inside the St. Louis County line. I think all the OMNI's have been dismantled since GPS took over for orientation.
I used to love watching the planes land and take off at Lambert, great place to take a date, hi hi.
The other option was to go watch the submarine races out at Corrisand Beach, if you catch my drift, hi hi.
When I was YOUNG, like Toddler age, there were two airports, Smart Field military, and Lambert Field commercial.
Later on they just became one huge place. Years later when I started flying, I never once went near Lambert Field, I was too scared to, hi hi. But there was an OMNI which we used as homing beacons, and the one I zeroed in on was called the Smart Field OMNI although it was no where near Smart Field. I learned later that it did start out at Smart Field before it got moved out to near the St. Charles area, but just inside the St. Louis County line. I think all the OMNI's have been dismantled since GPS took over for orientation.
I used to love watching the planes land and take off at Lambert, great place to take a date, hi hi.
The other option was to go watch the submarine races out at Corrisand Beach, if you catch my drift, hi hi.
Re: Servers, Multiple
It's quite interesting that we had similar dating rituals. LOL
I recall O'Hare International in it's days where it earned the ORD identity. That is to say I recall a military base which seemed to also have a runway for small commercial aircraft. The bulk of the traffic, which wasn't very much at the time, was due to the military. On the same grounds was a stock car race track at which I attended the one and only stock car race of my life. Before I reached being a teenager they closed down the base and eliminated the race track to build a real commercial airport. By the time I was of dating age that was a thriving place with an observation deck adjacent to the control tower. I took my date there a few times and after having our fill of that we would roam the terminals and retrieve coins left in the public phones. Those were quit profitable dates.
And, as you must know, the city of Chicago is built on the shores of Lake Michigan. There were beaches and parking lots as well as yacht clubs all along that shore reaching from Gary, Indiana, all the way up to Zion, Illinois, almost at the Wisconsin border. A lot of those beaches up north were private, but we knew where the public ones were too. At least we knew where those public beaches were that didn't send the cops to chase away observers of the submarine races. Several of my friends told stories of how they were chased away by the police, but for some reason I never even saw them patrolling. It would not matter. We weren't doing anything that couldn't be done on the front porch of our house. In love, maybe. Crazy, nope! So it's pretty interesting to know they also have races in Missouri.
The clocks were pushed back an hour last night and it was totally bright with the sun fully above the horizon when I had breakfast. If there were any UFO's in the sky I would not be able to see them due to the proximity of the sun. The skies won't be dark enough again to see air traffic at breakfast time until December. Trivial entertainment, I know. But the view is pleasant.
I recall O'Hare International in it's days where it earned the ORD identity. That is to say I recall a military base which seemed to also have a runway for small commercial aircraft. The bulk of the traffic, which wasn't very much at the time, was due to the military. On the same grounds was a stock car race track at which I attended the one and only stock car race of my life. Before I reached being a teenager they closed down the base and eliminated the race track to build a real commercial airport. By the time I was of dating age that was a thriving place with an observation deck adjacent to the control tower. I took my date there a few times and after having our fill of that we would roam the terminals and retrieve coins left in the public phones. Those were quit profitable dates.
And, as you must know, the city of Chicago is built on the shores of Lake Michigan. There were beaches and parking lots as well as yacht clubs all along that shore reaching from Gary, Indiana, all the way up to Zion, Illinois, almost at the Wisconsin border. A lot of those beaches up north were private, but we knew where the public ones were too. At least we knew where those public beaches were that didn't send the cops to chase away observers of the submarine races. Several of my friends told stories of how they were chased away by the police, but for some reason I never even saw them patrolling. It would not matter. We weren't doing anything that couldn't be done on the front porch of our house. In love, maybe. Crazy, nope! So it's pretty interesting to know they also have races in Missouri.
The clocks were pushed back an hour last night and it was totally bright with the sun fully above the horizon when I had breakfast. If there were any UFO's in the sky I would not be able to see them due to the proximity of the sun. The skies won't be dark enough again to see air traffic at breakfast time until December. Trivial entertainment, I know. But the view is pleasant.