Well, I do agree that the global temperature is rising. There is a logical explanation for that too.
We are still on the downhill side of our current ice age!
When we reach the valley, then the global temperatures will start going down again as we enter the next ice age.
Then everyone will begin complaining about global cooling, hi hi.
Hmm, Carbon is an Element that can neither be created nor destroyed.
How much carbon we have on planet earth is unchanged, it cannot change.
It is the least common denominator.
Plants can take up carbon, and then it ends up back in the ground again when they die.
We can dig up some carbon and make a flashlight battery with it, but the carbon will remain unchanged.
The steel casing the battery is in contains carbon also, and it will rust away leaving nothing but carbon left.
All of this Carbon Footprint stuff is all nonsense to the nth degree!
Here is the thing about freezing stuff. Water evaporates whether at room temperature or in the freezer.
Back when we used to use ice trays to make ice, it was not uncommon to find empty ice trays hidden under the full ones.
This was not because the kids put them back empty, it is because the water in them evaporated, often leaving a slight film in the tray if you are in a hard water area.
The same thing happens to foods, and breads, and anything else you freeze.
No matter how well you seal something you put in the freezer, you will eventually see ice crystals on the inside of the package. There's really no way to get the moisture back into many things. But breads can be steamed. I learned this when I was in the service. Someone would get a loaf of bread and lay it out in the air until it was totally dry. Then they would stick all the dried bread into a wooden box they had for keeping their bread. When they needed some bread for a sandwich, they would place it on a rack inside a pan with water, put the lid on and heat up the water until it had steam on the lid. The bread was then soft again, unless you overdid it, then it would get gummy. It tasted OK, but not like fresh bread from the oven.
Vertical Clouds
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Re: Vertical Clouds
My favorite way to reincarnate stale bread is to nuke it in the microwave. I'm nor sure where the moisture comes from when using that technique, but I have revived many a dehydrated slice of bread by nuking it. There is a point where that particular trick will not work so that I'm guessing the new found moisture was still in the bread and somehow the microwaves spread it out to soften the entire slice.
Your interpretation of "carbon footprint" describes the conservation of matter and energy, but it's not even close to the meaning of the phrase in common usage. I should say at this point that I didn't use the term correctly either. Using your interpretation which states the amount of energy (and matter) on this planet remains constant, there would be a limit to the amount of energy that can be used per person. While the total of potential energy would not be depleted, it would be changed in form. You know, burn a log to release some of its heat energy. There are only so many logs to be burned and thus only so much heat available from burning them. The burned log change form to release its heat energy which in turn produces greenhouse gasses and other things that compose the so called carbon footprint. Even if we buy into the false claim that those gases mean nothing, there will be a time when not enough logs can be produced and we will all freeze to death. Or something like that. That time can be measured in population numbers.
It takes around 90,000 years to form the ice for that traditional Ice Age you speak of. Then it takes another 10,000 years for it to melt down, which is the point you are suggesting we are at. That 10,000 year era is indeed meaningless to people who can't even live 100 years as individuals. So, you are right in that regard. The current warming, however, is accelerating at a rate dangerously beyond what the 10,000 years of warming would normally induce. The concern is over the reasons for that alarming increase. It is not a natural or expected phenomena.
Your interpretation of "carbon footprint" describes the conservation of matter and energy, but it's not even close to the meaning of the phrase in common usage. I should say at this point that I didn't use the term correctly either. Using your interpretation which states the amount of energy (and matter) on this planet remains constant, there would be a limit to the amount of energy that can be used per person. While the total of potential energy would not be depleted, it would be changed in form. You know, burn a log to release some of its heat energy. There are only so many logs to be burned and thus only so much heat available from burning them. The burned log change form to release its heat energy which in turn produces greenhouse gasses and other things that compose the so called carbon footprint. Even if we buy into the false claim that those gases mean nothing, there will be a time when not enough logs can be produced and we will all freeze to death. Or something like that. That time can be measured in population numbers.
It takes around 90,000 years to form the ice for that traditional Ice Age you speak of. Then it takes another 10,000 years for it to melt down, which is the point you are suggesting we are at. That 10,000 year era is indeed meaningless to people who can't even live 100 years as individuals. So, you are right in that regard. The current warming, however, is accelerating at a rate dangerously beyond what the 10,000 years of warming would normally induce. The concern is over the reasons for that alarming increase. It is not a natural or expected phenomena.
Re: Vertical Clouds
I think you will agree that H2O aka Dihydrogen Oxide, is a great and healthy thing to drink.
Secondly, I think you will agree that O2 aka Oxygen, is a wonderful gas that keeps us alive.
We also know that O3 aka Ozone, is a good thing up in the atmosphere, not so good to breathe though.
Would you agree or disagree that H2O2 aka oxygenated water, would be a better or worse thing to drink?
I hope you would disagree that it would be safe to drink, H2O2 is Hydrogen Peroxide, a poison.
Now let's look at CO2 aka Carbon Dioxide. Carbon carrying Oxygen is another way of looking at it.
CO2 is what makes green plants and trees grow, they inhale CO2, use the C, and exhale the O2.
If we eliminate CO2, we will eliminate all plant life, and animals and humans would soon follow.
Mother Nature is good at handling herself, but she is quite slow on doing so, because she knows many things are just a fad.
Take the BIG Ozone Scare, where the government banned Fluorocarbons overnight.
Our Ozone Layer runs on a 13 year cycle, always has and always will. It gets thin for 6-1/2 years, and thick for 6--1/2 years.
Ham Radio operators have used the Ozone layer to reflect our radio signals for over a hundred years.
Just like we have longer days in the summer and shorter days in the winter. We are well aware of what the Ozone Layer is doing during the seasonal cycle it follows, as well as the so called Hole in the Ozone, of which there isn't one really. Just a super thin area every 6-1/2 years.
As I said, mother nature is slow to make changes.
So What Happened when the government banned Fluorocarbons?
Well the Ozone Layer kept on doing its own thing, unchanged.
BUT, Ground Level Ozone CLIMBED overnight, SKYROCKETED, because mother nature does not make quick changes.
For a while, cities were putting up signs on the highway entering cities showing what the Ozone Level was.
These darn signs were usually in the Orange to Red range, a few as low as the Yellow range, but not many.
So in their infinite wisdom, the government decided to CHANGE THE SCALE, what used to be low Orange was now low Yellow. In this way, it made it look like their Ban was working, and the air was getting better.
Many of these signs now showed Green or Yellow, instead of Orange and Red.
But mother nature was finally helping to burn up the excess Ozone, and over the course of a decade, has found ways to offset the high Ozone Levels. So naturally the poly-TICK-ians are patting themselves on the back over a problem THEY CAUSED is finally clearing up. However, their purpose of the ban was about the Ozone Layer (remember), yet the Ozone Layer remains unchanged.
Mother Nature puts more CO2 in the air than all sources of human habitation combined.
There has NEVER been a dangerous Level of CO2, like we had during the Ozone Scare.
So yes, governments can cause problems, big problems, especially when they no nothing about anything and make laws for the sole purpose CONTROL and adding fines and taxes. Nothing gets resolved, but it just causes us more grief.
FWIW: Because my lungs are bad, I retain CO2 and it is hard to get out of my system.
No matter how much carbonated beverages I drink, or whether I don't drink them at all, it does not change how much CO2 my system retains. At least not until the government decides to use that angle for another Hoax Scare!
Secondly, I think you will agree that O2 aka Oxygen, is a wonderful gas that keeps us alive.
We also know that O3 aka Ozone, is a good thing up in the atmosphere, not so good to breathe though.
Would you agree or disagree that H2O2 aka oxygenated water, would be a better or worse thing to drink?
I hope you would disagree that it would be safe to drink, H2O2 is Hydrogen Peroxide, a poison.
Now let's look at CO2 aka Carbon Dioxide. Carbon carrying Oxygen is another way of looking at it.
CO2 is what makes green plants and trees grow, they inhale CO2, use the C, and exhale the O2.
If we eliminate CO2, we will eliminate all plant life, and animals and humans would soon follow.
Mother Nature is good at handling herself, but she is quite slow on doing so, because she knows many things are just a fad.
Take the BIG Ozone Scare, where the government banned Fluorocarbons overnight.
Our Ozone Layer runs on a 13 year cycle, always has and always will. It gets thin for 6-1/2 years, and thick for 6--1/2 years.
Ham Radio operators have used the Ozone layer to reflect our radio signals for over a hundred years.
Just like we have longer days in the summer and shorter days in the winter. We are well aware of what the Ozone Layer is doing during the seasonal cycle it follows, as well as the so called Hole in the Ozone, of which there isn't one really. Just a super thin area every 6-1/2 years.
As I said, mother nature is slow to make changes.
So What Happened when the government banned Fluorocarbons?
Well the Ozone Layer kept on doing its own thing, unchanged.
BUT, Ground Level Ozone CLIMBED overnight, SKYROCKETED, because mother nature does not make quick changes.
For a while, cities were putting up signs on the highway entering cities showing what the Ozone Level was.
These darn signs were usually in the Orange to Red range, a few as low as the Yellow range, but not many.
So in their infinite wisdom, the government decided to CHANGE THE SCALE, what used to be low Orange was now low Yellow. In this way, it made it look like their Ban was working, and the air was getting better.
Many of these signs now showed Green or Yellow, instead of Orange and Red.
But mother nature was finally helping to burn up the excess Ozone, and over the course of a decade, has found ways to offset the high Ozone Levels. So naturally the poly-TICK-ians are patting themselves on the back over a problem THEY CAUSED is finally clearing up. However, their purpose of the ban was about the Ozone Layer (remember), yet the Ozone Layer remains unchanged.
Mother Nature puts more CO2 in the air than all sources of human habitation combined.
There has NEVER been a dangerous Level of CO2, like we had during the Ozone Scare.
So yes, governments can cause problems, big problems, especially when they no nothing about anything and make laws for the sole purpose CONTROL and adding fines and taxes. Nothing gets resolved, but it just causes us more grief.
FWIW: Because my lungs are bad, I retain CO2 and it is hard to get out of my system.
No matter how much carbonated beverages I drink, or whether I don't drink them at all, it does not change how much CO2 my system retains. At least not until the government decides to use that angle for another Hoax Scare!
Re: Vertical Clouds
Sometimes the things I learn from you are ... scary. Just about everything we disagree on is explained by some sort of government (presumably our own government) ploy to enforce control or increase profit. If I read nothing else but what you tell me about these things, I'd have to believe that there actually is no governing. It's all just a plot, being executed by corrupt elite class liberals. It's an interesting negative point of view, but it hardly describes reality....until the government decides to use that angle for another Hoax Scare!
The topic of air pollution, ozone and fluorocarbons et al, isn't something the United States government invented. There are problems with air quality and just about every country on earth recognizes them. Many are doing a lot more than we here in America are willing to do. So, by extension of the Big Plot Against Mother Nature Theory, the entire globe must be in on the farce. The Paris Climate Accords, for example, did not originate in this country. Other people on other continents took note of what is happening to the planet and decided we can do something about it. Thus they solicited other major industrial countries to go along with it. We finally accepted the proposal. And, of course, some guy who was president and like minded about human intervention with Mother Nature got us out of that treaty really quick. Odd as it seems, we are back in now that that guy is on the sidelines.
To be fair I will agree the Ozone Hole issue was not fully understood when it was first observed. All we had to go on was the current observation of events. There was no detailed ozone history at the time, mostly due to the fact that we didn't have the instruments or the satellites to make the needed measurements. We now do have such technology and better understand ozone.
My understanding of those ham radios DX signal bounces is that they do in fact reflect off the ionosphere. The ionosphere is ionized gas of which oxygen is about 20%. I don't know how much of that 20% is ozone, but it has to be a very small percentage given that ozone is so unstable and breaks down easily. That means I doubt it has much electrical charge as other ionized gases would have. But, you are right about where it is located. The ozone layer is right up there with the ionosphere.
Re: Vertical Clouds
Wasn't it Al Gore who said the glaciers are melting, and the oceans will rise.
And then they all go and buy mansions just above the current water level of the ocean.
Would you buy waterfront property on the ocean if you knew it was going to rise and wipe out the coastal lands?
Poly-TICK-ians, although some are in office for decades, only look at things on a 4-year time schedule, and always raise a concern their opponents don't care about in order to win votes.
This is how it was with the Ozone Layer. It was near the bottom of the thinning side when they banned aerosols and freon. So when it turned around and started thickening up again, like it does every 6-1/2 years, they all Patted Themselves on their Backs, claiming they did something good. But then when it peaked and started thinning back down again, suddenly you don't hear a single peep out of those Poly-Tick-ians. I wonder why?
Ever seasoned Ham Radio around the world, since shortly after the time of Marconi, has understood the Ozone Layer Cycle, based on their radio propagation patterns.
As the earth slowly changes its orbit and rotation angles, we are going to see a lot of weather changes because of it.
Remember, the Sahara Desert was once a lush green Forest, and before that it was covered with water. Earth is in constant change, albeit our individual lifetimes are only a very tiny speck of a percentage of that.
The hottest ever temperature of recorded temperature readings here in Knoxville was set back in 1912 and has never been beaten since.
Somewhere around here I have a note about both the hottest and coldest temperatures every recorded on planet earth. We are no where near breaking any of those records.
And then they all go and buy mansions just above the current water level of the ocean.
Would you buy waterfront property on the ocean if you knew it was going to rise and wipe out the coastal lands?
Poly-TICK-ians, although some are in office for decades, only look at things on a 4-year time schedule, and always raise a concern their opponents don't care about in order to win votes.
This is how it was with the Ozone Layer. It was near the bottom of the thinning side when they banned aerosols and freon. So when it turned around and started thickening up again, like it does every 6-1/2 years, they all Patted Themselves on their Backs, claiming they did something good. But then when it peaked and started thinning back down again, suddenly you don't hear a single peep out of those Poly-Tick-ians. I wonder why?
Ever seasoned Ham Radio around the world, since shortly after the time of Marconi, has understood the Ozone Layer Cycle, based on their radio propagation patterns.
As the earth slowly changes its orbit and rotation angles, we are going to see a lot of weather changes because of it.
Remember, the Sahara Desert was once a lush green Forest, and before that it was covered with water. Earth is in constant change, albeit our individual lifetimes are only a very tiny speck of a percentage of that.
The hottest ever temperature of recorded temperature readings here in Knoxville was set back in 1912 and has never been beaten since.
Somewhere around here I have a note about both the hottest and coldest temperatures every recorded on planet earth. We are no where near breaking any of those records.
Re: Vertical Clouds
The glaciers are in fact melting and the ocean waters are indeed rising. Al Gore is not the most authoritative source for such phenomena. This is not a political issue, my friend. I'm talking reality here.
1912-1913 are the years records for highest temperatures were set in many places in the United States. Death Valley got up to 134.1℉ in 1913 and just this year of 2022 got above the 120℉ range. You might consider updating your weather database regarding temperatures. No need to read the text, but the accompanying chart will be quite enlightening to you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_su ... emperature The relevant information in that chart is that the earth is warming at a rapid pace. This sharp increase in temperatures have nothing to do with the fabled 10,000 year warming cycle that occurs after an Ice Age. We may be on that side of the curve, but the temps are rising at an alarming rate.
Also, there was a time when earth had but one huge land mass. Something crashed into the earth and the continents we see today were formed. In the process water did in fact cover deserts and lush vegetation did grow for some time. That was eons ago and part of the evolution of the planet. The orbit and the inclination of the ecliptic also changed back then. We lost about 5 days a year and the axis of the earth tilted about 23 degrees of arc. That most certainly did affect the weather on a global basis. What you cite about today's changes are well known wobulations that have been going on for centuries. They are minuscule and hardly enough to affect climate.
Truth be told the climate is changing. The reasons for said changes should not need debating, but those Poly-TICK-ians you keep talking about seem to have nothing better to do than spread lies and disinformation. I guess if that's entertaining, then go for it.
I was a ham radio operator for several years and I never heard anything about an ozone layer. I did hear about the ionosphere and how it affects propagation of short wave signals. Then, too, I will admit that I was not the most knowledgeable brass pounder around. I could have missed a lot.
1912-1913 are the years records for highest temperatures were set in many places in the United States. Death Valley got up to 134.1℉ in 1913 and just this year of 2022 got above the 120℉ range. You might consider updating your weather database regarding temperatures. No need to read the text, but the accompanying chart will be quite enlightening to you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_su ... emperature The relevant information in that chart is that the earth is warming at a rapid pace. This sharp increase in temperatures have nothing to do with the fabled 10,000 year warming cycle that occurs after an Ice Age. We may be on that side of the curve, but the temps are rising at an alarming rate.
Also, there was a time when earth had but one huge land mass. Something crashed into the earth and the continents we see today were formed. In the process water did in fact cover deserts and lush vegetation did grow for some time. That was eons ago and part of the evolution of the planet. The orbit and the inclination of the ecliptic also changed back then. We lost about 5 days a year and the axis of the earth tilted about 23 degrees of arc. That most certainly did affect the weather on a global basis. What you cite about today's changes are well known wobulations that have been going on for centuries. They are minuscule and hardly enough to affect climate.
Truth be told the climate is changing. The reasons for said changes should not need debating, but those Poly-TICK-ians you keep talking about seem to have nothing better to do than spread lies and disinformation. I guess if that's entertaining, then go for it.
I was a ham radio operator for several years and I never heard anything about an ozone layer. I did hear about the ionosphere and how it affects propagation of short wave signals. Then, too, I will admit that I was not the most knowledgeable brass pounder around. I could have missed a lot.
Re: Vertical Clouds
I do agree that the earth is warming up faster in this last 100 years as it has in the previous 50,000 years. But it is not even a whole degree yet. Something like 0.7 degrees.
But then so has the population of planet earth increased, and each person is like a walking heater, without doing anything else.
I checked your chart link, and it only shows the last 90 years, and as I said 0.7 degrees, is not worth mentioning really. Not when you look at it over a 1,000 year or 10,000 year time frame.
You hear about the arctic melting, but not about the antarctic increasing in ice formation.
Something about the inclination and rotational changes in the earth do have something to do with it.
For example: Only in more recent years has Florida seen harder colder winters than ever before, while the midwestern states are enjoying not quite as cold winters. But then the northern states are seeing both colder and warmer temps. fluctuating a bit from year to year.
I've been a Ham since 1959, and worked mostly CW up through the late 1970s. Have worked all continents, and all states on CW, and in order to do that worked all continents, you have to bounce your signal off the Ozone Layer. The propagation index changes from day to day also, due to the magnetics of the earth itself. These days we have daily reports of propagation.
But then so has the population of planet earth increased, and each person is like a walking heater, without doing anything else.
I checked your chart link, and it only shows the last 90 years, and as I said 0.7 degrees, is not worth mentioning really. Not when you look at it over a 1,000 year or 10,000 year time frame.
You hear about the arctic melting, but not about the antarctic increasing in ice formation.
Something about the inclination and rotational changes in the earth do have something to do with it.
For example: Only in more recent years has Florida seen harder colder winters than ever before, while the midwestern states are enjoying not quite as cold winters. But then the northern states are seeing both colder and warmer temps. fluctuating a bit from year to year.
I've been a Ham since 1959, and worked mostly CW up through the late 1970s. Have worked all continents, and all states on CW, and in order to do that worked all continents, you have to bounce your signal off the Ozone Layer. The propagation index changes from day to day also, due to the magnetics of the earth itself. These days we have daily reports of propagation.
Re: Vertical Clouds
You are right about .7 degrees not being much, but that does not diminish the implications of the trend line. It's headed upwards faster than ever recorded. I will admit, however, that the folks walking around 10,000 years ago didn't leave much behind in terms of weather data so that we don't have anything reliable to show what was going on back then. The cold in the southern states is due to the change in the jet stream I mentioned in another thread. The west coast and the midwest are warmer because the stream is heading up our west coast from the south Pacific, hitting the arctic region, and pushing that cold are down toward you and folks east of you. It's pretty much like a sine wave these days. And as far as Antarctica is concerned, the warmer ocean currents are flowing under the ice shelves and melting them from the bottom. Just about a year ago there was a huge chunk of ice that fell into the ocean as a result of the warm water. I don't recall the details right now, but it was about the size of some state they mentioned. And, yes, I also read about how some regions down there are building up ice ... for now.
Re: Vertical Clouds
If you put 100 people in a room, it gets hot in there super fast.
This is one of the reasons arena's and coliseums are so high, because heat rises.
Now increase the number of people on earth from 400 million in the 1400s to over a billion and just our being here at all is raising the temperature. We alone put off a lot of heat. Now add to that we also heat our homes, stores, and factories. It takes a LOT of heat to smelt iron ore.
So I do have to agree with the fact the planet is warming up!
But I don't think CO2 is the true cause of global warming.
This is one of the reasons arena's and coliseums are so high, because heat rises.
Now increase the number of people on earth from 400 million in the 1400s to over a billion and just our being here at all is raising the temperature. We alone put off a lot of heat. Now add to that we also heat our homes, stores, and factories. It takes a LOT of heat to smelt iron ore.
So I do have to agree with the fact the planet is warming up!
But I don't think CO2 is the true cause of global warming.
Re: Vertical Clouds
That is the essence of our disagreement. It so happens that the CO2 levels can be measured and they are increasing dramatically. When we disagree with the statistics we can rightfully point to the fact that correlation does not prove causation. True as that might be, there are way more science minded professionals who see the cause and effect clearly than there are non-scientific types who disagree. It is nearly a consensus among people who study this kind of thing, but they don't get all the publicity. Especially not around election time.So I do have to agree with the fact the planet is warming up!
But I don't think CO2 is the true cause of global warming.
Re: Vertical Clouds
There are some things to think about regarding CO2.
Living things like animals, birds, and humans, exhale CO2.
What is the percentage of the human population increase of the last 500 years?
Compare that to the percentage of CO2 increase over the same time span.
Now also, trees, shrubs, plants, and flowers, take in CO2 and remove the carbon leaving the O2 back into the air.
How much has our forest decreased over the past 500 years?
How much land with green growing vegetation has been cleared and buildings and houses put in their place?
Do you think there is enough greenery in large metropolitan cities to offset the amount of CO2 being generated in those cities?
All I'm saying is, you have to consider all the sources of CO2, and all the ways it could be removed, and that is dwindling.
You can't just blame ONE THING on the reason for higher CO2 levels, it is a lot of things combined.
On the other side of the coin, the forests are greener because of the slightly higher CO2.
They are not going winter dormant as fast due to the temperature increase extending their growing seasons.
There is a whole lot to think about, not just what is hitting the mainstream media!
Living things like animals, birds, and humans, exhale CO2.
What is the percentage of the human population increase of the last 500 years?
Compare that to the percentage of CO2 increase over the same time span.
Now also, trees, shrubs, plants, and flowers, take in CO2 and remove the carbon leaving the O2 back into the air.
How much has our forest decreased over the past 500 years?
How much land with green growing vegetation has been cleared and buildings and houses put in their place?
Do you think there is enough greenery in large metropolitan cities to offset the amount of CO2 being generated in those cities?
All I'm saying is, you have to consider all the sources of CO2, and all the ways it could be removed, and that is dwindling.
You can't just blame ONE THING on the reason for higher CO2 levels, it is a lot of things combined.
On the other side of the coin, the forests are greener because of the slightly higher CO2.
They are not going winter dormant as fast due to the temperature increase extending their growing seasons.
There is a whole lot to think about, not just what is hitting the mainstream media!
Re: Vertical Clouds
You are so very correct to suggest the main stream media is off base in many respects. All they do is publish the charts and the statistics after which they draw conclusions that would make it all seem exciting enough for you to tune into the media next time. The thing to consider, however, is how those charts are created. The MSM does not compile them. There are some serious minded people behind those charts and they do in fact consider all the variables you mention, and then some. Most scientist do have an opinion, of course, but there is something called scientific method. That process involves, among other things, peer review. Just because somebody notes an abnormal increase in CO2 and attributes that to climate change via global warming does not make it so. The entire scientific community gets their say before it is accepted as fact. Well, the MSN has no such restrictions when they report somebody has evidence of abnormal increases in greenhouse gasses.
And, by the way, I read just today where the world's supply of helium will be exhausted by 2030. Get your party balloons now before the prices increase to $100 per balloon.
And, by the way, I read just today where the world's supply of helium will be exhausted by 2030. Get your party balloons now before the prices increase to $100 per balloon.
Re: Vertical Clouds
Helium is one of the most abundant elements, in the Universe, but not so here on planet earth.
Helium is the result of radioactive decay of uranium, but takes nearly a million years.
Nevertheless, Helium is a by product of pumping Natural Gas, so as long was we have Natural Gas, we will have Helium.
And by the time that source dries up, we CAN make Helium using Cold Fusion techniques.
We could get some from the moon, but it would be expensive to get that way, hi hi.
Ask 8 scientists the same question and you will get 16 different answers, hi hi.
Helium is the result of radioactive decay of uranium, but takes nearly a million years.
Nevertheless, Helium is a by product of pumping Natural Gas, so as long was we have Natural Gas, we will have Helium.
And by the time that source dries up, we CAN make Helium using Cold Fusion techniques.
We could get some from the moon, but it would be expensive to get that way, hi hi.
Ask 8 scientists the same question and you will get 16 different answers, hi hi.
Re: Vertical Clouds
As far as the universe is concerned, hydrogen is most abundant. Helium is a distant second. Here on planet earth, it's nitrogen (78%), oxygen (21%), and argon (0.93%). Thus helium has to be less that .9% of the earth's atmosphere. I've not heard about helium being a byproduct of natural gas, but then there are a lot of things I've not heard of. Helium may never disappear entirely, but it could get to the point where a balloon full of it would indeed cost $100.https://stardate.org/astro-guide/hydrogen-and-helium wrote:Hydrogen is an element, usually in the form of a gas, that consists of one proton and one electron. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, accounting for about 75 percent of its normal matter, and was created in the Big Bang. Helium is an element, usually in the form of a gas, that consists of a nucleus of two protons and two neutrons surrounded by two electrons. Helium is the second-most abundant element in the universe, after hydrogen, and accounts for about 25 percent of the atoms in the universe. Most of the helium in the universe was created in the Big Bang, but it also is the product of hydrogen fusion in stars.
Re: Vertical Clouds
I worked for over five years for MRTC (Mississippi River Transmission Corporation), they had two natural gas fields, in Landa Wascom and Landa Woodlawn, Texas and Louisiana. They piped natural gas from there up to St. Louis, with a couple of side deliveries along the way, and were extending their distribution further north around the time I left.
Although most of my work had to do with the pipelines and pumping stations, I visited their gas fields a few times, and they have some amazing equipment down there to capture things like Helium.
Underground Uranium decay over lots of years, is what created Helium, and it is inside the gas pockets, right above the natural gas usually. They have some elaborate equipment they use to extract this helium and other things, before the natural gas gets pumped into the pipeline. And I probably shouldn't say this, but all the Helium they do get, goes the U.S. government, who stores it somewhere as a national reserve of Helium.
Helium is used when doing Heliarc welding on Aluminum, a whole lot of it, much more than was ever used for Helium Balloons!
Although most of my work had to do with the pipelines and pumping stations, I visited their gas fields a few times, and they have some amazing equipment down there to capture things like Helium.
Underground Uranium decay over lots of years, is what created Helium, and it is inside the gas pockets, right above the natural gas usually. They have some elaborate equipment they use to extract this helium and other things, before the natural gas gets pumped into the pipeline. And I probably shouldn't say this, but all the Helium they do get, goes the U.S. government, who stores it somewhere as a national reserve of Helium.
Helium is used when doing Heliarc welding on Aluminum, a whole lot of it, much more than was ever used for Helium Balloons!
Re: Vertical Clouds
The numbers I quoted for helium in the earth's atmosphere may not include what is underground. It seems odd that the government would have a national reserve of such a thing. All I know about it is what I have seen in party balloons. I suppose it has other uses too. If they are strategic by any chance then the supply running out in 7 years could be an issue.
As an aside I want to tell you about my recent good fortune. I bought a handful of lottery tickets the other day. Some scratch off and some draws. Like just about everyone else buying such tickets this week I have my heart set on the 1.5 BILLION dollar payout. That particular drawing is tomorrow, Saturday, if I recall correctly, one of the other draw tickets got me $8. I was stunned because it's been many moons since I got any return at all on those draws. Then the three scratch tickets were even better. One pays out $25 which is about the biggest payout I recall getting from any one ticket. The other scratch got me $4, and the third got me zero. So, I'm on a roll. Hopefully my good fortune will continue into that big money draw. I don't expect to hit the jackpot, but a couple millions for a lesser prize would be fine with me.
As an aside I want to tell you about my recent good fortune. I bought a handful of lottery tickets the other day. Some scratch off and some draws. Like just about everyone else buying such tickets this week I have my heart set on the 1.5 BILLION dollar payout. That particular drawing is tomorrow, Saturday, if I recall correctly, one of the other draw tickets got me $8. I was stunned because it's been many moons since I got any return at all on those draws. Then the three scratch tickets were even better. One pays out $25 which is about the biggest payout I recall getting from any one ticket. The other scratch got me $4, and the third got me zero. So, I'm on a roll. Hopefully my good fortune will continue into that big money draw. I don't expect to hit the jackpot, but a couple millions for a lesser prize would be fine with me.
Re: Vertical Clouds
I think before we actually do run out of Helium, they will have found a way to make it, maybe even easier than capturing it from natural gas fields. I know they are working on some type of cold fusion process just for that purpose.
I wish you super duper good luck on the Lottery!
I wish you super duper good luck on the Lottery!
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Winning the lottery would be a mixed blessing. The last time 1.2 Billion was paid out and the winner didn't claim it for several weeks. The ticket was sold in my old neighborhood, one prior to the house I lived in before I came here. By chance I noted one day that the ticket finally was cashed in for something like $730 millions in two payouts. The winner chose to remain anonymous. That coincides with all the advice I've read telling people to remain anonymous and see a lawyer about incorporating and how to claim your prize to the best tax advantage. I presume that is why two payments were made, for tax purposes. And the delay in claiming the prize no doubt involved A LOT of legal work including finding a decent lawyer. Then, exactly where do you put $730 Millions dollars when you get it? Well, that figure was before state taxes were taken out, but even if they only got half the amount, it's still a lot of cash that needs a good home. I'd do my best to keep it a secret, but the neighbors might be a little bit curious over why I have a $400,000 car (Bentley) parked in my garage. 
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I think I told you about the time I won a Ford Mustang. I HAD to take the car, could not take cash instead.
But in order to take the car, I had to pay the taxes on the governments share of the car. Which I couldn't afford to do at the time. So I sold it back to the dealer for only a tiny bit less than they had to pay for one. Then I took half of that money to pay the government the winnings, and THOUGHT all was good.
No such luck. Since I sold the car, it caused it to be INCOME with no BASIS as a deduction. I was allowed to deduct the funds already paid as winnings tax from the amount I got, but still had to pay the income tax on all the rest.
Again I thought I was all good. No chance, along comes the State of Missouri where I had to claim the entire amount I sold the car for as income, either that or pay the entire amount the winnings were valued at. I chose the smaller amount of course.
In the end, after winning a brand new car, when the dust finally settled and I owed no more money in taxes, I only had 600 lousy dollars left over. The thing that irked me the most is IF I had the money to pay the winnings tax and take the car without selling it. That would have become the Basis on the car for the later federal and state income taxes. In other words, I would have ended up with around 900 bucks instead of 600 bucks.
But in order to take the car, I had to pay the taxes on the governments share of the car. Which I couldn't afford to do at the time. So I sold it back to the dealer for only a tiny bit less than they had to pay for one. Then I took half of that money to pay the government the winnings, and THOUGHT all was good.
No such luck. Since I sold the car, it caused it to be INCOME with no BASIS as a deduction. I was allowed to deduct the funds already paid as winnings tax from the amount I got, but still had to pay the income tax on all the rest.
Again I thought I was all good. No chance, along comes the State of Missouri where I had to claim the entire amount I sold the car for as income, either that or pay the entire amount the winnings were valued at. I chose the smaller amount of course.
In the end, after winning a brand new car, when the dust finally settled and I owed no more money in taxes, I only had 600 lousy dollars left over. The thing that irked me the most is IF I had the money to pay the winnings tax and take the car without selling it. That would have become the Basis on the car for the later federal and state income taxes. In other words, I would have ended up with around 900 bucks instead of 600 bucks.
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The bad news is that I did not win the lottery drawing last night. The good news is that nobody won. The estimated payout for the next round will be 1.9 BILLION. That is difficult to appreciate and could be very problematic trying to figure out what to do with it all. At my age I would take a single payment which means I would net about 25% of the estimate payout over 20 years. But, can you imagine having an income of around 95 million dollars for each of the next twenty years? I could handle a few hundred million easily. But when it gets close to a billion, that would make me nervous. Be that all as it may, I don't expect to be nervous any time soon.
I have a few investments in mutual funds which were intended to be a retirement fund. We are able to live off SSA and pensions so far, but we have also sold some stock when we needed the cash. I have records of every single transaction and know the cost basis of each fund down to the dollar. Most of the time the IRS will accept estimates or averages, but I can actually come up with an exact amount. It's a PITA because some of those interest payments are issued every month. That's a lot of records accumulated over the past twenty years or so. It might be worth knowing all that some day, but I have a suspicion that my kids will be the ones figuring it out. LOL
I have a few investments in mutual funds which were intended to be a retirement fund. We are able to live off SSA and pensions so far, but we have also sold some stock when we needed the cash. I have records of every single transaction and know the cost basis of each fund down to the dollar. Most of the time the IRS will accept estimates or averages, but I can actually come up with an exact amount. It's a PITA because some of those interest payments are issued every month. That's a lot of records accumulated over the past twenty years or so. It might be worth knowing all that some day, but I have a suspicion that my kids will be the ones figuring it out. LOL