Guess Where I Was Today

[yogi]

Bakery.jpg (78.11 KiB) Viewed 892 times

Bakery.2jpg.jpg (75.23 KiB) Viewed 892 times

In case you don't recognize it, that's a bakery in downtown Kirkwood. Lovely town, and exceptional bread from the bakery.

[ocelotl]

The surroundings look quite nice... Google helped me find the exact point...

https://greatharvestkirkwood.com/

[yogi]

~Juan
Yes, you found it. Google is your friend! LOL

I posted this mostly for Gary's enjoyment in that he lived in that area for many years and is much more familiar with it than I am, a Missouri native for only five years. The shop is modern and up to date on the inside with the baking area in full view from the seating area. At one end of the counter near the ovens was a cutting board with several of the shop's breads ready to be sampled. I tasted their cranberry/raisin bread and was delighted with the quality. However, I purchased their rye bread just to see how good that was. They didn't have any to samples for that. At the very front of the shop is a seating area with about six tables. We had sandwiches on some of the best breads I have tasted in a long time. It was a worthwhile adventure, but not close enough to home to be convenient.

[Kellemora]

They must be a fairly new place. I don't know them, but 2 blocks down the street was Spencer's Grill which has been there since my dad was tooling around the area.
Checking the map it looks like there are a lot of new places, and most of the places I used to go to are no longer around.
I guess 40 years does that to a town, hi hi.

I've lived down here now for 20 years, and before that was up in Creve Coeur for 20 years, so rarely got as far back south as Kirkwood. I graduated from Kirkwood High School, so most of my teen years were spent in and around Kirkwood and Sunset Hills, Crestwood, etc.

[yogi]

As you might have gathered from various posts I made about my experiences in Missouri, my greatest complaint has been about the foods available, or not, from the local stores. My #1 issue is with the absence of quality rye bread. It's not that rye bread is unavailable, but I'm used to something entirely different than what is common around here. Resignation has set in but once in a while my wife of many years comes up with a possible solution. She found this bakery in Kirkwood which is actually a pretty decent shop. I didn't realize until after we visited that it's a franchise. Nothing wrong with franchises, but it's not the ethnic stuff I was bred on while growing up next door to a bakery. That was more than 70 years ago and I guess perhaps a few things have changed since that time. In any case, I was glad to visit Kirkwood and see first hand what you have been talking about. The downtown district is built for tourism, obviously, much like the old part of St Charles. There are a ton of unique shops in the area, and for that reason alone it was worth the trip. I'd even go back to explore some of the places we didn't get a chance to yesterday. However, I'd not be very motivated to go out of my way to that bakery every time I have a craving for rye bread.

And, by some strange coincident, as we were trying to leave the town of Kirkwood we happened to pass by the high school. We were lost, of course because it's not on the main drag. LOL

[ocelotl]

It's understandable that a 50 km per leg car trip may not be taken as something to do frequently, just occasionally... Many of us foreigners have the impression, perpetueted by US media, of a car centric culture and way of living, and many times we don't stop to think that, in a way, most people behave similarly, be it on the middle of Europe, in Asia, on Latin America or up there in the US, people use to move whithin the places where we live and work. If we are lucky enough, we work near the place where we live or move to a place where it is convenient for us for work reasons...
We may crave some places that we used to know at sometime in the past, but we can't frequent now because life is in the way... Anyway, don't pay too much attention to this answer, I'm just daydreaming...

* Edition *

Oh, I remembered, and to avoid double posting I'm editing. Using shopping streets a tourist traps is common all over the world. Many locales have fixed prices, but in a few spots where it is possible to haggle, the experience can be memorable... It's just a matter of not losing temper and letting the seller do the effort when haggling, that way you're not offending (much) and are recognized the next time you happen to visit.

[yogi]

~Juan
First of all I want you to know that on this website daydreaming with your words is acceptable and encouraged.

At one time a large part of the American economy depended on the automobile industry. Manufacturing cars involved many industries so that the economics behind building automobiles is far reaching and profoundly affected. I've heard from non Americans I know primarily in Europe that we are too focused upon automobiles. The truth in the matter is that owning a home and an automobile and having 2.4 children are measures of a country's standard of living. Thus, some of the criticism I've heard comes off as sour grapes. Having said that, I recognize that time does not stand still for any person. Today's economy is not as dependent upon any sort of manufacturing. We have become more of a service oriented economy. The factories are still here but our economic strength and our standards of living no longer depend on what comes out of Detroit. Most of the people I know take personal transportation for granted. Owning a car is about as common as owning a tooth brush, and the same amount of consideration is given to both of those items. There are folks who have had some amazing experiences with their automobiles (looks over at Gary), but they hardy are the ones talked about in the media unless they are driving a formula 1 at a race track.

Well, now, I'm the one who is rambling.

[ocelotl]

~Juan
First of all I want you to know that on this website daydreaming with your words is acceptable and encouraged.

At one time a large part of the American economy depended on the automobile industry. Manufacturing cars involved many industries so that the economics behind building automobiles is far reaching and profoundly affected. I've heard from non Americans I know primarily in Europe that we are too focused upon automobiles. The truth in the matter is that owning a home and an automobile and having 2.4 children are measures of a country's standard of living. Thus, some of the criticism I've heard comes off as sour grapes. Having said that, I recognize that time does not stand still for any person. Today's economy is not as dependent upon any sort of manufacturing. We have become more of a service oriented economy. The factories are still here but our economic strength and our standards of living no longer depend on what comes out of Detroit. Most of the people I know take personal transportation for granted. Owning a car is about as common as owning a tooth brush, and the same amount of consideration is given to both of those items. There are folks who have had some amazing experiences with their automobiles (looks over at Gary), but they hardy are the ones talked about in the media unless they are driving a formula 1 at a race track.

Well, now, I'm the one who is rambling.

As I told you, mainly may be the way it all is presented to us foreigners by US media. Many people sees that as a cultural invasion, others as an inspiration of how things could be or a standard of measure to compare to, but in the end media just shows idealizations. When traveling abroad, I tried to avoid stereotypes get in the way of how I could perceive people and cultures out there, and found normal people that somehow I could identificate myself with, well, within limits, since we also know that given the opportunity, anyone can try to scam anyone else.

As an example, historically, in Medical Dramas, we were not shown the bills unless it is for some reason, until the turn of the century or so, and for those of us foreigners that rely on government subsidized health services, the comparison is like that of a 5 star hotel to a road motel... Yet we didn't have the grasp of the costs, until they are a worldwide point of debate. Same for college tuition fees and student debt.

[yogi]

~Juan
I fully understand that most of the main stream media (MSM) reflects the views and values of their sponsors. Some people see that as a flaw in the system or misrepresentation of reality. My position is not to blame the MSM because they are subject to the same laws of economics and business management as is any other industry. The viewer must take the responsibility of keeping their sources of information in the proper perspective. Just because a television network claims to be a news media does not mean they are obligated to be unbiased. In fact there have been cases in court where it was legally decided that "news" shows are not required to broadcast the truth. I think that was a good decision because truth is a very subjective thing.

The irony it today's world is that money is the driving force for nearly everything. That includes the way news propagates. That is to say, the MSM must cater to their sponsors or go out of business for lack of funding. My conclusion is that the news, no matter in which country it is rooted, is biased and heavily influenced by economics. The average person relies on one or two sources and is thus highly influenced by the bias underlying their souces. Thus, it makes sense that Europeans would see Americans as fixated on automobiles given the price of petro oil there being a multiple of what we pay here in the states. There are good reasons for that situation, but the MSM does not present that side of the story. The solution to all this, of course, is to obtain information from multiple sources with diverse points of view. Then, and only then, can one begin to understand what the truth in a matter is.

[Kellemora]

I would no longer recognize my old home town. Heck, it changed drastically while I was living there.
My parents sold their house and moved out to Ballwin in 1966, but I still finished High School at KHS.

I used to run from Creve Coeur into Kirkwood to shop at a business I had used for years, then they closed and some clothing reseller moved into their space.

I know nothing ever stays the same. But in all honesty, in many ways, the changes are not for the better and some even made me sad to see happen.

Heck, even my home town turned bad after outside poly-TICK-ians took it over.

[yogi]

I feel as if my roots are in the place I was born and raised, which happened to be the northwest side of Chicago. I didn't move out of that neighborhood until after I was married and a couple dozen years old. During those 24 years the neighborhood changed, but not a lot. However, the surrounding areas were undergoing a massive reconstruction of the demographics. Chicago was always known for it's ethnic diversity and I lived in a Polish dominated neighborhood. The black and Latin population was attracted to Chicago because of its acceptance of anyone who cared to live there and because of the economic opportunities that came with it. While that was all well and good for the newcomers, the old timers left town. Well, I wasn't an old timer, but my job moved out to the suburbs and I followed it. The last time I visited the neighborhood, about twenty years ago, it was unrecognizable. None of the shop signs were in English and the landscape had additions and deletions galore. The home I grew up in didn't look much different until I checked it again on Google maps several years later. The lot on which the house stands is as it always was, but the remodeling of the homes was remarkable. I would have to venture a guess and say the new residents are better off for the changes, but my roots have vanished. There is no place to go back to. And, I've been warned it's no longer safe even if I cared to go back. It all seems sad in some respects, but I have no regrets. Where I am now is where I was destined to be. My roots may be gone, but I am well grounded nonetheless.

[ocelotl]

Yep, places change with us... Even when some of us don't move around much during our lives, our interests and necesities change with time, so that our surroundings are changing even when it's not instantly noticeable. That's some of the price we pay to "keep current". And the price the ones in power don't care about when they meddle with towns in order to implant their ideas... My paternal grandma lived in a comunity around 30 km away from my parents home, in the 70's the way to get there was through a 2 line road surrounded by farms, alfalfa, parsley and corn crops and a few towns. Nowadays, that road is a 8 line highway with a mass transit line in the middle and all the farms and crops were replaced by housing developments... Surely there is more economic output now, but also more chaos. Yearning may make us crave for places in our memory. Too bad when they have changed, and there's nothing we can do about but keeping on what's left.

[Kellemora]

The architect I was using when I was doing total gut rehabs in the older areas of town, could redesign the front of the house to make it look as modern as the newer houses around it, without it costing much at all to do. And he didn't charge me all that much either since he liked coming up with before and after designs for his portfolio.
I bought one old house that looked god awful from the street. The houses on either side had been renovated, but still had those old very dated entryways and concave columns on the front porch. Those who did make minor changes to their houses didn't help them much, they still looked like post-war cookie cutter designs, but not quite row houses looking.
The architect came up with a design that required more removal of entryway features than were materials added back. Those traditional concave large roof holding columns were totally removed, and a modern supporting system like used in the late 1970's was added. But the windows were cut down making them tall like was commonly seen in the 1980's. Plus the single front door was made as wide as a double door, but with vertical sidelights on each side of the door, and inset one foot.
It really looked sharp from the street, just like it was a nearly new house amid all the older houses.
The inside was just as modern too, all new since it was a gut rehab job. All new plumbing, wiring, etc.
If I knew I could have got more money for the house, I would have changed the front part of the roof to a hip roof and done away with the separate lower porch roof. The architect had a design for that too, but there was nothing wrong with the roof to go to that added expense which you can never recover those costs for doing.

I've been in nearby towns I've traveled through many times in my lifetime, especially when tooling around on weekends.
Areas that used to be all residential were now zoned commercial, and all the houses were gone and strip malls stood in their place, and in some cases, a whole shopping center where a subdivision used to be.

Like Ocelot mentioned about his area. From my home town of Des Peres, there was nothing but farms going west on old Route 66 (Manchester Road) all the way to small towns of Manchester, Ballwin, Ellisville cluster. The first business you came to traveling west was a company who made fire trucks, but were gone by the 1960's even though the building was there housing some other business. There were gaps between the city limits of Manchester and Ballwin, and a new town sprung up between them named Winchester. Then Ballwin kept growing until it touched Ellisville, and Ellisville grew just as fast.
Pretty soon, one subdivision after the other popped up between Des Peres and the westward city cluster. And the cities annexed as much as they could as fast as they could, hi hi.
It got to the point, I could get lost trying to follow Manchester Road because even it had changed drastically.

[yogi]

The year that GM introduced the Buick LeSabre my neighbor bought one. He was in the process of a divorce and had a lot on his mind, and he thought a trip out to Los Angeles would be the thing to do since he had relatives out there. He asked me to accompany him and I agreed. Since I was only 16 at the time my parents had to agree too, but we all were good friends so that there was no problem. We made the trip via Rt66 not realizing at the time it was going to be a historic adventure. It was two lanes all the way from Chicago to LA with the exception of a couple turnpikes we traveled in Oklahoma and Arizona. I'm thinking it took 3-4 days one way, but it could have been less in that this guy loved driving 12 or more hours at a time. There were some notable spots along that famous highway which still bring up good memories. But, as you know, for the most part Rt66 doesn't exist anymore, and certainly not in it's original form. A few days ago while touring Kirkwood wife spotted a sign about traveling down the "original" Rt66. I don't recall much about my trip, but more than likely Kirkwood didn't exist when I passed through the first time. "Original" my foot!

I know your family had something to do with the establishment of communities around here. It's amazing to me how you were able to document such things in great detail. While you lament the changes that have occurred since the original settlement, the landmarks will be there forever. I'd say the same thing about all that rehab work you did. You will be long gone and forgotten but the work you did to improve the communities around there will remain a testimony to your abilities. I also know you did some historic restorations so that work and effort you put into it will be your legacy. I'm sure it was all just a job for you and part of making a living, but it's an amazing accomplishment nonetheless. I'd venture to say historical in proportion.

[Kellemora]

In St. Louis, and in St. Louis County, the route of Route-66 has changed many times.
I did an article on it once many eons ago, because very few articles mention the original Route-66 came down Market Street in the city, which name was changed to Manchester Road in the county.
After a new bridge was built across the Mississippi River, Route-66 changed once again and went down through Crestwood, instead of down through Des Peres like it used to. Sections of Manchester Road were also parts of the Lewis & Clark trails.

I strove my whole life to please my dad. He was one of those who's common phrase was "What makes you think you can do that?"
I knew he was proud of some of my accomplishments, because I was told by others how he bragged about me.
Who knows, maybe it was his way of making me try harder?
It was not until after he passed away, and my mom gave me a box of keepsakes he had with my name on it.
In that box were some newspaper clippings of historical home renovations I worked on, that for all my years around him, I thought he was mad at me for taking off work from the flower shop to go work on those houses in another town far away.
He had notes in that box of nearly every major project I ever worked on, many of which I would have forgotten.
Including my short time in the military, what branch I was in when, and where I was, and what I did.
He wrote down a lot of things I didn't even know about, such as what names were given to the particular offensive I was a part of.
I always thought, since he was Navy, he was the one responsible for getting me shifted from Army, to Navy, to Marines. But it turned out, he had nothing to do with it, or so he said. He had a lot of military friends in high places.
I still think his contacts had something to do with me becoming the pilot of the Pac-V SK5, (known today as LCAC's) because my rank would never normally have permitted that, but we were in a war and short of personnel trained in certain areas.

All in all Yogi, despite being dead broke most of the time, I've had a rewarding and wonderful life. Did things most folks only dreamed about doing. Even though my part was often in a small way, mediocre at the time for sure, those things slowly grew to become more important projects I got to work on. Dad is actually who through his friends and contacts got me into jobs that would have been nearly impossible for me to get into. And I made them pay off for me! Not necessarily in dollars, but in licenses and skills I learned that have benefited me my entire lifetime, up until I could no longer do it myself in these latter few years.

Yeppers, technically, my grandfather founded the town of Des Peres and later made it grow into a 4th class City putting us on the map. But it was all downhill after he got that pushed through on his deathbed.

[yogi]

Des Peres in 2021 could not possibly be the same as when your grandfather put it on the map. I can easily understand your disappointment in how the town evolved because it is a matter of family and personal pride. While nothing is what it used to be, more than 8600 people live there today - or in 2019 per Google. Your family made that possible. I've not been to Des Peres proper, not that I know of, but I can say with certainty that the people living there today are enjoying a high quality of life because of what your family started. I'm willing to bet most if not all of those citizens do not think they are going downhill.

My trip across America down Rt 66 was a once in a lifetime event. I didn't realize it at the time, and could not imagine all the changes destined to take place along that highway. The sad part is I can't do it again. Much of the highway is gone. But I can say I did it once.

[ocelotl]

The comments on Route 66 made me wonder about all the changes our countries have passed... Historical roads that conformed the way our societies were built. It makes me wonder how it took this long for us as societies to recognize that we can preserve our heritage while building our future.

[yogi]

I have read about the Pan American Highway but never had the occasion to travel on it. Apparently it goes through Mexico City and I wonder if you, Juan, have any comments about it. The rout starts in the arctic and ends at the southern tip of Argentina, and the claim is that it can be driven if you are courageous enough to do it. The most treacherous part is in Central America where the road is not always visible. LOL

I see that you have changed your avatar image, Juan. I am very impressed. You are one good looking fellow.

[ocelotl]

There were originally two main roads going north that are considered part of the Panamerican highway. The oldest one is the Mexico - Laredo, the Federal 85, paved first in the late 20's. It is still mantained but is not the main one to the US, from Monterrey to the south the Monterrey - Saltillo part of the toll Highway 40 and from Saltillo to Mexico City the Highway 57 are the most used ones.

The other main road to the north considered part of the Panamerican Highway is the Federal 45, that diverts from the Federal 85 in Hidalgo State and goes paralel along the "Camino Real de Tierra Adentro" to Cd. Juarez and Paso del Norte. As it crosses Federal 57 in Querétaro, the routes now converge into one there.

The "Camino Real de Tierra Adentro" is a very interesting route. Some people claim it can be traced back almost 9 centuries, but it is documented as the road used by Spaniards since the 16th century to colonize and evangelize North America. It runs all the way to Santa Fé de Nuevo México. there are a few things left near home that are not listed by UNESCO but were part of the route. Beginning with the 1687 Corpus Christi cathedral in Tlalnepantla central square, the bit of atruim left, a water box and bits of the Acueducto de Guadalupe in Mario Colín and Toltecas, the Cuautitlan cathedral and atrium and a small rock bridge in the diversion to Tepotzotlan from the old road from Cuautitlán to Teoloyucan. I think that a small humiliation marker and cross at the 2,400 m ASL line in the Tlayacampa hill near the old Tlalnepantla - Cuautitlan road could also be part of the route.

To the Southwest, the Panamerican may be the Federal 190, from Mexico City to Arriaga, Chiapas, and the federal 200, from there to Tapachula.

I've transited few parts of them, mainly as a bus passenger. I've told that it is easier for me to go work at Pachuca than at Chimalhuacán. Puebla is also not difficult to get to. To Puebla the road is also not bad, even when the road gets to 3,100 meters asl on Río Frío. The part from Puebla to Acatlán de Osorio of the federal 190, specially between Atlixco and Izucar de Matamoros is mainly sugarcane country. I happened to go to Acatlán de Osorio to check about an accident as witness from the compamy I was working with. Hopefully it was just material losses covered by insurance and the driver came out with only bruises. We ate Cecina from Yecapixtla in tacos as a dinner. Quite tasteful. We had to return the next morning. Had coffee and I think sopes with a bit of chorizo and green sauce as a breakfast.

Oh, an I thought that if Zuckerberg had my mug image, you also can, so, what the heck. This is me.

* Edition *

There is another part of the Panamerican Highway I've traversed... When I went to supervise and help install satellite antennas in Costa Rica, Most of the visits departed from the Panamerican Highway. The part we traveled through ran from San José to Palmar Norte, in the Terraba river. I remember having seen several maintenance teams fixing slides in several points along the continental range... Those clay mountains surely were a bit soft. The vistas were impressive, people kind and warm and the food so - so. Even when it was a work travel, the rainforest environment made it very enjoyable. I remembred that on the way back to San Jose, we were chatting about the cultural differences between the countries, and in a meal stop we made atop the continental divide, I just put on a jacket before we stopped, one of the people that were with me asked about the weather at the moment and heigth in Mexico City. It was mid October, I just answered "similar to what you can feel right here, right now", and got down the truck. I could see the shock in his face when he got down from the warm truck to a fog covered place at around 15° C, with an air pressure 70% of that at sea level, wearing jeans and a thin short sleeved shirt and realizing why I did put on the jacket before stopping.

[Kellemora]

I can remember when Manchester Road was only a two lane road, and probably had less than 100 cars a day driving down it, and other than the locals going from store to store, most of the rest had out of state plates and just passing through.
Of course that was very short lived, within 5 years, traffic increased tenfold, and kept doubling each year after that, hi hi.