WWW Code For Sale as NFT

The is the core forum of BFC. It's all about informal and random talk on any topic.
Forum rules
Post a new topic to begin a chat.
Any topic is acceptable, and topic drift is permissible.
User avatar
Kellemora
Guardian Angel
Guardian Angel
Posts: 7494
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by Kellemora »

For hairline cracks, if they are super super thin, you could use Gap Filling Cynacrolate Resin, aka Super Glue in them.
It might take a couple times of doing it to get it built up, but they should never crack there again, hi hi.
User avatar
yogi
Posts: 9978
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by yogi »

I like the idea of super glue on my driveway, but I'd have to get a mortgage on my house in order to buy enough of it. That stuff they sell in tiny tubes is terribly expensive and the cracks in my driveway are very long. I see they sell adhesives in various bulk quantities ranging from $89 to $399.12 (makes me wonder how they came up with the 12 cent number). Apparently they are all different formulas too. This is getting complicated fast. Maybe cracks in the driveway aren't that bad after all.
User avatar
ocelotl
Posts: 268
Joined: 18 Feb 2015, 04:49

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by ocelotl »

By what you say about driveway concrete cracking, I thought about several conclusions. Either the slabs are too big, in which case thermal changes are the reason, too thin, meaning the weight they are supporting is larger than the design one, or the mixture is faulty, meaning that it crumbles since it doesn't cure the way its supposed to. Thermal variation is a mixed theme, since daily and yearly variations make the concrete behave differently. Down here daily variation is larger than the mean yearly variation, so the norms are intended for finding a good balance between pressure support and tension support. Almost everywhere where Asphalt has been replaced with Hydraulic Concrete, it shows where they took the care to do a proper work. There are avenues where the job was done 25 years ago and the concrete is like new, and others where they have opened the street again to fix or modify either the water pipes or the sewage and they left awful messes.

I don't really know how streets were built around your home, Dennis, but it seems to me that the steel framing upon where the concrete slabs were poured are not up to the standards they should be, so they "give" a bit more of what they must either because of thermal variations or traffic and thus cracks appeared. Or the aggregates to the mix were not in the correct proportion... Weed growth in the slab gaps must mean the soil under the slabs was not well covered. Over here, they use a sand layer over the dirt clearing to avoid the weeds and grass to propagate to the gaps between slabs... For what you write, it seems an epoxy mixture could both fill and seal the cracks, but that needs to be tested beforehand, we don't want the driveway concrete slabs to break away because of a faulty crack remedy...
User avatar
yogi
Posts: 9978
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by yogi »

I am being enlightened in regard to some of the factors that must be considered when using concrete. I never thought of ground vibrations, but the truth is we have a lot of earthquakes in this area. Nearly all of them are of such low magnitude that they are not noticed except by a sensitive seismograph. I'm certain all the buildings, and especially concrete components, are affected by such things.

My driveway is three cars wide and at least 50 feet long. There are 12 panels of concrete: 3 across and 4 down the length. Originally this was all poured as one slab and the panels marked by contraction lines. 9 of the 12 were replaced because of flaws present when I purchased the house. Amazing as it seems, somebody walked on the concrete before it set completely. Thus my driveway consists of two slabs of concrete with the appropriate expansion joints between them. From a short distance the driveway looks perfect. It's not until the contraction lines are examined that the cracks are noticed. I think that is the reason the lines are there, i.e., to control where the concrete cracks. I am dismayed that everybody knows it will crack before they even pour the mix, yet nothing is done to prevent this from happening. Perhaps it is too expensive to make a residential driveway of the same quality as an airport runway. I don't know the reasoning but every contractor seems to now the mechanics of it all.

I didn't see what was done when the house was originally built, but just about every driveway I have seen constructed has at least a gravel bedding on which it sits. I've rarely seen sand under concrete but I have seen something akin to pea gravel under asphalt driveways. It doesn't seem to matter to the weeds. They will grow in air, apparently, given enough moisture to germinate. It's all a nuisance more than it is a problem. Weeds and cracks in the driveway do not take away from its functionality. They just give the neighbors something to talk about.
User avatar
Kellemora
Guardian Angel
Guardian Angel
Posts: 7494
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by Kellemora »

Once there is a crack, dust from the air will accumulate in the crack, along with weed seeds and after a rain they will sprout.
Now if the crack is deep enough, they might live longer, or send roots down into the ground under the driveway, and possible cause the crack to spread wider.
In any case, the crack should be cleaned and filled before winter sets in and water gets in those cracks and freezes.
This will spread them wider and cause even more damage.
Right before my mom was ready to move from her house. I had several 5 gallon buckets of outdoor use mud like drywall mud. I poured some in the cracks and then rolled her entire driveway with it. Then went back in filled the cracks with gray butyl rubber caulk. About 5 days later we had a major downpour an it didn't make any change to the driveway at all. I was glad to see that, because I had thought about tossing cement and white sand over it while it was still wet. Turns out I didn't need to. It turned out looking like new concrete anyhow. It still looked that way like ten years later too, which was good.
I had used this stuff over plywood when we redid an old gas station into a doctors office. It held up there perfectly too.
It was a higher quality material than stucco, and once applied you could use sand or pebbles to create a neat final finish.
It was sorta like a vinyl based stucco is what it was we used, but sold as exterior wall patching compound to fix damaged wood siding, etc.
User avatar
yogi
Posts: 9978
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by yogi »

The builder of this house gave us a list of maintenance items we should have done and the people to contact. Most of the tasks involve applying some sort of seal, such as the granite counters in the kitchen. The foundation concrete was to have a sealer similar to what you describe above. About half our foundation is visible so that making the sealer look pretty is part of the job. The driveway concrete should be sealed every year. I had it done once and am considering doing it again. They came out with a power sprayer and splashed some foggy water all over the concrete which took all of ten minutes to do. It did an excellent job of sealing too. Water would bead up on the concrete for a year afterward. The idea behind that seal is to prevent the surface from flaking. I suppose any one of those companies which do the sealing would also be happy to fill the cracks. Some are so thin that I bet the normal sealer would do it; at least for a little while. I never had to do all this maintenance in my all brick house with an asphalt driveway. Maybe I should have, but it made it 25 years with next to no outside maintenance.
User avatar
Kellemora
Guardian Angel
Guardian Angel
Posts: 7494
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by Kellemora »

Although I hate blacktop, that is what I installed here after finding the cost of concrete was astronomical compared to back home.
I have it sealed about once every three years.

I was the only person on our entire street that had their driveway paved. Until about 5 years after I moved in, the guy across the street from me poured on small concrete slab to park on in front of his house, but kept the gravel drive to the side of the house.
He mainly did it since he is downhill from the street and his gravel would wash down to the front of his house.
Which by the way is why after having new gravel poured on my driveway and saw some of the finer the sandy dust washed all the way down in front of his house, is when I decided to do concrete, bought the fabric, and installed the pour forms no each side.
To use concrete would have cost more than I paid for the house, hi hi. Got the entire drive blacktopped with coarse and fine topping for under 2 grand. It's been in now around 17 or 18 years.
User avatar
yogi
Posts: 9978
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by yogi »

The last house I had custom built about 30 years ago had a concrete foundation. It was $15k for a standard 30x50 full basement. From what I understand the cost of concrete has increased at a rate that exceeds the increases in other building material. That same foundation today could easily be 35 - 45 grand. Given the pandemic and the import taxes that have been put in place over the past few years, the cost of concrete has indeed skyrocketed. They stopped using Portland cement many years ago because it was too expensive to import and I hear there is a shortage of it these days. I don't think you are kidding about mortgaging your house in order to pour a driveway.

Just about as crazy as the cost of concrete is, there are people working on self-repairing concrete: https://www.wpi.edu/news/wpi-researcher ... pans-slash
User avatar
ocelotl
Posts: 268
Joined: 18 Feb 2015, 04:49

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by ocelotl »

yogi wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 13:05 I am being enlightened in regard to some of the factors that must be considered when using concrete. I never thought of ground vibrations, but the truth is we have a lot of earthquakes in this area. Nearly all of them are of such low magnitude that they are not noticed except by a sensitive seismograph. I'm certain all the buildings, and especially concrete components, are affected by such things.
I was reading a bit about this, It's the New Madrid fault system... A thinning right in the middle of North America's plate. There have been 7 to 8th magnitude earthquakes on the area (by the way, welcome to the "shakers" club) in the early 1800's... and their frequency is about once every 500 years and lower magnitude tremors in a more or less frequent timeline (mag 3 to 5 every 5 to 10 years) that may ask for more strict building regulations than in non seismic zones, but not to the level of plate border areas...

USGS info regarding the area is quite interesting...

https://www.usgs.gov/natural-hazards/ea ... ismic-zone

https://earthquake.usgs.gov/hazards/urban/st_louis.php
User avatar
yogi
Posts: 9978
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by yogi »

The USGS certainly has no problem explaining things. LOL Since I've lived Missouri there has only been 2 or 3 times that I've actually perceived the ground to be shaking. Typically it's less than one second and some quakes have been reported that I've not even been aware of. They definitely are low level. During my 70 years living in a Chicago suburb I recall two earth shaking incidents. One was the day we moved into our newly built house. That one lasted two seconds or more and was startling. Down here in Missouri the earthquakes are taken for granted and I heard a few stories about how they originated in Oklahoma state where they are doing a lot of oil fracking. That doesn't coincide with the New Madrid fault talked about in articles you posted, but then people make up explanations when they don't know the real story.

I've never been known as a mover or shaker in my previous life. But, then, most of that previous life has been lived 300 miles from here.
User avatar
Kellemora
Guardian Angel
Guardian Angel
Posts: 7494
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by Kellemora »

We've had several small earthquakes we felt down her in TN. Don't know where they started though.
But it is more often than I ever felt up in Missouri.
We also get a lot of high winds that were unusual for me to experience.

When grandpa built our greenhouses, and all the raised concrete benches in them, he had his own formula for making concrete.
I do know he used very little water, and some type of lime, besides the cement, sand, and rock of course.
In the over 71 years we had all concrete benches, we may have only had 2 elevated base runners deteriorate and crack. No biggie because we had hundreds extra in storage. But not one of the end caps or supporting legs ever failed.
But I learned this from my uncles, the more water you add to concrete to make it more workable, the shorter the time period it will last.
User avatar
yogi
Posts: 9978
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by yogi »

I looked up Portland cement
Portland cement is made up of four main compounds: tricalcium silicate (3CaO · SiO2), dicalcium silicate (2CaO · SiO2), tricalcium aluminate (3CaO · Al2O3), and a tetra-calcium aluminoferrite (4CaO · Al2O3Fe2O3).
All those calcium compounds are what we would call lime. I don't know what Portland has in their cement that seems to be missing from cement made elsewhere, but at one time it was the preferred source. I've read where it's no longer easy to get cement from Portland, or Dorset England. Perhaps what your grandpa was adding is the missing ingredient of the original cement. Also, I never heard that less water makes better concrete. It sounds like an interesting idea but I don't know the science behind it.

Living on the side of a mountain, as you say you do, I would not be surprised that you get more wind than us flatlanders experience. There was a place downtown Chicago called Lake Point Tower. It was a high rise condo building with a breathtaking view of Lake Michigan. My dream was to own a condo there, but, of course, that could only be a dream. Then I read where that building (and others) sway when the wind blows. The higher up you are the more noticeable is the swinging action. It would not be quite like an earthquake, but on second thought I abandoned my dream. :mrgreen:
User avatar
Kellemora
Guardian Angel
Guardian Angel
Posts: 7494
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by Kellemora »

When I was doing flatwork, I always added a bit more water than what it had when delivered, while still in the mixer of course, so I could use a vibrator to settle it down fairly fast and only had to screed then trowel the sidewalks.
So it wasn't odd to see them begin to shale from the surface after a few years.
I had to replace a slab in my driveway and I didn't add a single bit more water than how they delivered it.
It was much harder to work with, but that slab was there all the years I lived there after that and looked like the day it was poured.

When I worked in downtown St. Louis. I parked at 9th and Walnut and walked down the 9th street wind tunnel to get to work.
The lay of the buildings would catch the air like a funnel so the wind on 9th street was horrendous almost all the time.
In winter, we would walk down to 10th street then up to Olive and backtrack to the office.
User avatar
yogi
Posts: 9978
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by yogi »

My wife worked downtown Chicago for many years where the skyscrapers dwarf anything I've seen in St Louis. She would walk from the train station about 3/4 of a mile to her office building and some of that path was like the wind tunnel you describe. It was so bad in the winter that they would walk through the stores instead of on the sidewalks. A few of the building even provided a sheltered walkway in front of their building just for people like my wife. I'm certain the St Louis wind tunnel was bad, but you haven't experienced real wind until you got a face full of the icy stuff off Lake Michigan in the middle of January.

I watched the guys pour my replacement driveway and they used the cement right out of the truck's back end. We will find out how durable it is, but that's the same stuff that is cracking in the lines five years out. There are homes twice as old as mine on our street and some of those driveways are flaking on the surface. Only a few have that problem, and I'm guessing it's because there have been three or four different contractors involved building the homes here. They all look identical, but different companies build them. I'm pretty sure I'd be happy with a sand and gravel driveway. Unfortunately my neighbors would object and I would be forced to comply with "the rules."
User avatar
Kellemora
Guardian Angel
Guardian Angel
Posts: 7494
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by Kellemora »

Don't know if I got the full-force of the gale force frozen winds off Lake Michigan, but I got the taste of some of it when I was staying in Oak Brook outside Hinsdale. We often went to dinner at the Chicago Yacht Club (glad I wasn't paying the bill, hi hi) and when someone opened the back door (employee entrance) the icy air would blow the front doors wide open sometimes.
To stop that, they built a little 4 foot by 6 foot room with a door on the end you had to go through first to get into the employee's entrance door. It ended up becoming a place for storage of a lot of junk items too, hi hi.

I did something in a couple of houses I lived in that on the surface didn't make sense until you know why.
I wasn't after durability as much as not tracking small gravel chips into the house.
I put up simple 1x2 yellow pine edges to hold the gravel crusher run I placed and leveled by hand.
Hosed it down with a fine spray to get the sandy off the top and help it settle a bit.
Waited a couple of hot days for it to dry out real well, then used DRY Cement powder over that, which I used a squeegee to even out over the gravel. Once I was done, I sprayed a very light mist of water over it all, not enough to cause water drops which would make marks, and not enough to make the cement wash down into the rock.
What surprised me is it took a whole lot more cement than I thought it would. I had bought 4 bags, and had to go back and buy 4 more. Bought 6 more just in case.
I was a little more generous with the cement on the lower end of the two walks leading to the house, leaving more cement on the top which I figured would shale off. But it never did.
At least we were not tracking sand and gravel into the house for like 3 years. But at the end of the third year, there were enough rough spots I added another bag of cement, again using a squeegee to spread it out. Another fine mist spray over the whole thing, and a good rain two days later, and those two walkways still looked like new when I moved out a couple of years later.

As an aside: When my dad had the showroom floor of our Floral Shop poured, he didn't let them just toss the green dye on top of the finished concrete, he made them put it into the concrete itself. So that floor looked great all they years we had it. Only two places showed a little wear and that was at the main customer door, you could see the river sand and gravel in that area, but not bad. So we kept a large door mat in that area after that. The wax we used on the floor was called metal coat, the same stuff they used at St. Peter's Church in Kirkwood. Shine like a mules hind leg, but was not slippery like most waxed floors would be.
User avatar
yogi
Posts: 9978
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by yogi »

You were in the right place to receive the full force of Lake Michigan's winter fury. But, of course, some days are worse than others. I don't think I'd want to be at the Yacht Club during any of the winter months. Walking the pavement a few blocks in from the lake was bad enough. I'm not so sure about the validity of the famous "wind chill" calculation. It all seems relative and each individual experiences the phenomena differently. I do know that any wind with the air temp below zero is dangerous. Your skin will freeze if exposed to it too long.

I don't know where the inspiration for all your home projects came from, but some of the things you did would never come to my mind. I like what you did with the dry cement and misty spray, but that's the last thing that would come to my mind if I were doing that job on my own. LOL I might insist on tossing the color dye into the mixer instead of just using it as a top coat. I've used some patio blocks that were colored through and through and know that is the only way to go. Perhaps I misread it, but it seems as if you wrote that you waxed cement floors. I've seen some coated with lacquer(?) or some such thing to keep it shiny, but I've not heard about waxing anything other than wood or metal.
User avatar
ocelotl
Posts: 268
Joined: 18 Feb 2015, 04:49

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by ocelotl »

When they pour cement mix for flooring down here, after they level and after smoothing it with the float trowel, It's common that masons sprinkle a bit of cement powder so that the poured surface gets a bit harder. Depending on the builder, a brush or a broom are used to scratch the surface to leave a texture on it, or, if for interior flooring, it's left smooth.

Since the winds within the lake bowl are not strong, due to the mountains surrounding it, the wind tunnel effect is not very common within this city. There are places that have more or less constant cool gusts, but not really cold. For a place that acts as a natural wind tunnel, the nearest I remember is along Mexico State road 11, between San Andres Timilpan and San Bartolo Morelos. It runs in a north-south canyon within the northern edge of the Monte Alto - Las Cruces range system. The closest to what you describe that I've been was during a work visit to Ottawa at late January 2007. Temperature got to - 20° C, and any gust felt like the air was made of needle tips...
User avatar
yogi
Posts: 9978
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by yogi »

I must admit that I've been out in that dangerous winter wind only a few times which involved me traveling back and forth to work. The claim was that the wind "felt like" -40F (which is the same in Celsius) and only a few minutes of exposure would literally freeze your face. That would be true perhaps if the absolute temperature was that low, but the wind chill is a calculated number based on the evaporation of water from your skin. Water does not evaporate at that temperature. It freezes solid instantly. LOL Needles striking your face is a pretty accurate description of how it all feels.
User avatar
Kellemora
Guardian Angel
Guardian Angel
Posts: 7494
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by Kellemora »

I think when it gets cold enough, the humidity itself freezes and with the wind becomes like sand blaster on your face, hi hi.
I had to work outside at 3 below on the third floor exterior, and with the wind, I decided to anchor the scaffold to the building.
Good thing I did that, because at the building next to us, their scaffold blew over onto some parked cars, hi hi.

Part of the reason I did it the way I did had to do how we set posts. We would dig a hole, drop a brick in the hole for the post to set on away from the dirt, then fill the hole with dry concrete. Sometimes we would pour a 1/2 gallon jug of water on the top, then push dirt back over that. When we had to remove an old post, that concrete was as solid as rock.

The concrete company who poured our greenhouse showroom floor, right before they began to trowel the surface smooth, they used like a rose dust blower to blow cement over the top of the wet but screeded concrete. Then they troweled it smooth. It was there for a good 60+ years without ever getting a crack or any flaking of any kind.

My first father-in-law needed to pour a base for his storage shed. He used really coarse gravel for the first pour and only enough cement to add color to the rock. Then for the second pour he used one size smaller rock and coarse sand, but still only enough to give it color, so it still had lots of gaps. Now the final 3 inch thick top coat was finer gravel, finer sand, and a lot of cement.
I thought for sure that thing being outside to the elements, even though it had a storage shed over it, would have crumbled apart after a few years. Not so, 40 years later it still looked as good as the day he poured it all, one layer right after the other.
It was also the one and only time he ever did any concrete work in his life, hi hi.

Speaking of temperature drops. It was in the 80s yesterday. This morning at 9:30am it was still 75 degrees, but then by 11am it was down to 63, and here at noon it is down to 61, that's 16C. I hope it stops dropping, hi hi.
User avatar
yogi
Posts: 9978
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: WWW Code For Sale as NFT

Post by yogi »

I think the secret to a good and lasting concrete finish is the final dusting you talk about. I have not had a need to pour a lot of concrete of my own, but now I know how to do it right. I also like the way you set posts. I did build a wooden porch once and could have uses that little trick. The porch started to sink after only a few years.

Your comments about frozen humidity almost sound reasonable. I have in fact seen my breath freeze when I exhaled in air that was cold enough, but that was well below -3F. At sub zero temperatures the amount of moisture in the air is limited even if it's totally saturated. Be that all as it may, I think my face has been ice-blasted more than a few times.

We will wake up tomorrow morning with the temperatures in the upper 40's. For the past several months it never got lower than 58F and most mornings at sunrise were in the upper 60's or lower 70's. I'm guessing Tennessee must have experienced something similar. A wave of cooler less humid air is crossing the US almost for its entire height. The whole country is due to cool down at least for a little while and it's traveling from west to east. Today when I walked the dog first thing in the morning I had to wear a hoodie. It might not be time to put away the shorts yet, but sweater weather is definitely upon us.
Post Reply