Reeading on Easter Morning

[Kellemora]

As of yet I've not found my blueprint for the mailbox.
But I did find two pictures I could glean it from taken after it got run down and my son sorta fixed it to get it back up again.
It sure doesn't look like it did before it got run over though.
It's now all lopsided and has extra support wood added to it.
The winter picture shows the copper dome still in place, but not the white globe light.
The summer picture shows a braided tree that used to stand behind the planter box the mailbox post once sat in.
And as I mention before, where the big mailbox was, was converted to a planter box, also destroyed, hi hi.
It doesn't look anything like it did when it was built, with a brass eagle on top, large white lite, etc.
Looks like I need to switch to full editor to be able to upload the pix.

[Kellemora]

Oops, looks like uploading images is turned off now.

[yogi]

Nope ... not turned off.

Me and my ax

Conrad460.jpg (114.34 KiB) Viewed 738 times

It would be wonderful to see the original creation, but a reasonable facsimile or two will do. LOL

[ocelotl]

AC_Circuit.jpg

The above image represents my (mis?)understanding of Alternating Curren, AC.

Some device generates the AC current as explained elsewhere in this thread. The generator has two poles, one positive and one negative. All electric current, be it AC or DC, flows between the positive and negative poles. The load is placed in series or parallel with the flow of electric current. Thus the electric current generated by the device flows through the load and back to the generator. For the purpose of our discussion I labeled the positive pole hot and the negative pole neutral. The neutral wire is said to be grounded, and the connection to earth is on the same terminal as the neutral wire according to the above explanations.

I'm fairly certain the image represents what has been described in this thread, and is consistent with the physics of electric current flow.

I'm also told that the AC generator is grounded to earth, which makes sense for safety reasons. The part that does not make sense is that it is said the AC current will still flow if the neutral conductor is removed. That is to say the earth connection on the generator side acts as the return path from the load which is also earth grounded. However, earth (soil) has resistance. Any substantial distance separating the load from the source will increase that earth resistance dramatically. While the current from the AC generator is equal throughout the entire circuit of series loads, the source voltage is split among the loads in proportion to their resistance. That means the original load will see much less voltage than supplied at the source because the series earth resistance would cause a voltage drop of it's own based on it's inherent resistance. This is simple Ohms Law.

You can't just swap out a copper wire and substitute it with dirt and expect electric current to flow unimpeded. Well, that's the theory. Apparently something else is going on in practice.

Yogi, at least over here, and in this case the NOM and CFE standards and protocols follow much of the ANSI, NEMA and UL standards due to IEC (International Electrotechnical Comision), NAFTA and T-MEC/USMCA/CUSMA, generation is done with three phase devices in a wye configuration, where neutral is grounded, later the generated electricity is transformed to high tension (standards for transmission lines down here are 115 kVAC, 230 kVAC, and 400 kVAC for national grid and 23 kVAC for urban grid) in delta configuration, meaning no neutral. Most transmission lines you see over here have one or two three phase delta circuits and thin cables at the top that interconect the transmission towers and keep them at roughly the same potential, serving also as lightning protection.

Domestic distribution varies, since we use the three phase circuitry all the way to individual houses. Namely, in the local transformers, the 23 kV delta is transformed to a wye configuration, where the voltage between phases is 220 VAC and between each phase and neutral is 127 VAC. In industrial and residential areas you get the three phase connection, and can request in the paperwork with CFE the amperage range you are going to need, or if instead of 220 VAC you need 440 VAC or have your own substation and make a contract for the 23 kVAC line. In habitational complexes, it is more probable to have just a single phase circuit per home, balancing of the three phases are done in the distribution at the neighborhood substation.

[ocelotl]

Well, since there's a street light right in front of home, and bits of its light are let go inside at strategic points (as near the bathroom) We've tried to avoid letting any apparatus plugged or turned on when we are not using it. Add to that that I use every now and then to give maintanance to whatever electric/electronic thing we have at home that I'm able to, since dust and electricity don't mix very well. What I have forgotten is to get the rubber bands to refurbish old cassette players, since most of the original ones have broken or melted.

I hear ya on that time frame for lamps, hi hi.
Even so, the old antique lamps still lasted longer than the new lamps do!
Heck, when we took down a drop ceiling in my grandmothers old house, a light that was above the drop ceiling was on and burning. The lamp itself was probably from around 1917 to 1922 give or take. It was still burning in 1980 when we took down the drop ceiling. By then though you could just barely see the light from over 60 years of grunge and grime coating the bulb. And you don't want to know what the tops of those drop ceiling panels looked like, hi hi.

I don't know if I can explain the purpose of what are known as case grounds in a way that would make sense, since Neutral is also earth ground, but taking a different path, sorta.
Neutral is what the device needs to make the motor run or the lamp to light, after the hot wire is connected.
Simply because when a lamp is on, or the motor is running, Neutral is also Hot all the way back to the source.
That is why they are termed LINE and LOAD.
The Romex wire runs from the panel box out to the fixture, and has three wires in it. Hot, Neutral, and Ground.
But back at the panel box, the Neutral Buss bar is connected to earth ground.
So why the third Ground wire, which bypasses the Neutral Buss and goes straight to earth ground.
Well, let's say you are holding an electric drill in your hand with a metal housing.
Something inside breaks causing the hot wire to touch the metal housing.
This would make YOU the ground for the Hot wire, and we can't have that.
So the case is always a separate ground to earth ground to keep you from becoming the ground.
It took me years to understand the purpose of the extra ground, since they both (Neutral and Ground) go to earth ground.
But if you use the metal case of a device as Neutral, you can get shocked when the item is running.
You may remember touching the refrigerator at the same time as you touched the water faucet or another appliance and got a nasty shock. That was because decades ago, the case was grounded to the Neutral wire.

For Ocelot:
I've basically done the same thing in many applications. Bought appliance bulbs and/or 130 volt lamps. I bought a whole box of 75 watt bulbs designated for traffic control lighting many years ago. I had them in my outdoor fixtures until only recently when I replaced them all with LED lamps.
My son bought four large fluorescent globe lights for me a few years ago. Actually, he bought them for himself but didn't like how they worked. They start out dim and slowly get bright over time. So I said I would take them. They are known as Sunrise lamps. They are great for 3 am trips to the bathroom because they are dim when you turn them on, and you are done before they get much brighter, hi hi. I also have an LED nightlight in there in the ceiling that runs 24/7 if you don't want to turn on the other lights. It is the equivalent of a 7 to 9 watt bulb, but draws less than 1/8th watt, which was perfect for what I needed it for.
I have a 3 foot LED lamp that looks like a shop light. That thing puts out 4000 lumens and is daylight color range.
My brother replaced all of the long fluorescent lamps in his warehouse with 5000 lumen LED tube lamps. Said his electric bill dropped by over 1/3rd when he did that. But their is a downside too. If he uses less than so many KWH per month, his rate goes up from industrial to commercial rates.


I don't know Yogi, some companies take pride in the quality of their products.
I have two Emerson dorm fridges, one is 40 years old, the other 30 years old, they still run perfectly.
The window AC I had built into my office wall ran for over 14 years, and it was a discount model AC unit to start with.
The new one I have now probably won't make it to 3 or 5 years.
I know we've had to replace a couple of our brand new kitchen appliances already, the fridge and the dishwasher.
That ten year warranty on the fridge was useless, it only covers the compressor and nothing else.
What I hate most is the design of most new products is drastically sub-par.

[Kellemora]

Here is a copy of your Instructions on how to upload an Image or Document for that matter.

"This is a test of the new ATTACHMENT feature ...

At the bottom of the editing page is a new tab called Attachments. For the time being images and text documents can be inserted into your posts simply by opening the tab and pressing the [Add files] button. Since this is a first for us, there might be some configuration glitches and some patience may be required while we figured this all out. Most of the usual file types are allowed but some have been denied or simply are not available. I was generous with the file size spec, but if we have trouble going forward, just let me know. I'll see if it can be fixed. Enjoy the new feature."

There is no tab called Attachments!

I did however find the text that was on the blueprint, and some notes added to it.

[yogi]

Juan~
Thank you for the detailed explanation and photographs regarding AC distribution and generation. It is clear to me now that I forgot more about the entire subject than I remember. I do recall reading about delta and wye configurations in my distant past, but my career took a turn into the DC direction early on and I eventually had no need to know much about power distribution networks. I did get to learn a few things about digital networks, however. It is plain to see that a neutral (return) wire to the AC source is optional in a distribution network. The theory is still correct in that the circuit has to be a complete path of current flow from one pole of the generator to the other. Apparently there is more than one way to construct those generator poles.

[Kellemora]

Aha, OK, I'm a nut, I found it. But I'll swear it wasn't there yesterday, hi hi.

[Kellemora]

One more pix.

[Kellemora]

Both pictures of my mailbox were taken not only after it was mowed down by a van, but also after it fell over later and my son fixed it back up for me, and before it was restored back to normal, or close to normal.
The last picture is how they modified my picture and built another one like it, using readily available lumber and simpler construction, but still getting the same look.

[Kellemora]

Below is a cut n paste from the document I finally found.
It is basically the text from the blueprint with some added notes at the end.
I will also see what happens if I try to attach a msWord doc.


The Deutschmann Diefenbach Postbox/Planter

Original Concept & Design by: Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.
12131 Manchester Road
Des Peres, MO 63131

Architectural Considerations by: Robert N. Chisholm
Callies/Chisholm Architects
St. Louis, MO 63101

Simplified Version Featured in: Better Homes & Gardens Magazine
Simple Version Featured in: 100 Ideas Under 100 Dollars section.


Note: All Wood (unless otherwise indicated by an asterisk) is Unplaned, Rough Sawn Western Cedar heartwood, Pressure Treated Lumber measuring a full 2" x 4".
Lumber noted with * is Planed to 1-3/4"x3-3/4" then Pressure Treated.
Lumber noted with ** is Planed to standard size then Pressure Treated.
All other Lumber is standard as stocked then Pressure Treated.


Bill of Materials: (In Sizes as Used)

Lumber:
02 2"x4"x10' Rough Sawn Cedar Heartwood
01 2"x4"x05' Rough Sawn Cedar Heartwood
04 2"x4"x28" Rough Sawn Cedar Heartwood
02 2"x4"x18" Rough Sawn Cedar Heartwood*
01 2"x4"x12" Rough Sawn Cedar Heartwood*
03 2"x4"x04" Rough Sawn Cedar Heartwood
04 1"x8"x05' Rough Sawn Cedar Planking
02 1"x8"x02' Rough Sawn Cedar Planking**
01 1"x8"x19" Rough Sawn Cedar Planking**
04 1"x8"x08" Rough Sawn Cedar Planking
04 1"x8"x38" Rough Sawn Cedar Tongue & Groove
04 1"x8"x36" Rough Sawn Cedar Tongue & Groove
04 1"x8"x28" Rough Sawn Cedar Tongue & Groove
04 1"x8"x26" Rough Sawn Cedar Tongue & Groove
02 1"x8"x02' Rough Sawn Cedar Tongue & Groove
02 1"x8"x14" Rough Sawn Cedar Tongue & Groove
04 3/4"x08" Cedar Molding (Trim Pieces)

Miscellaneous:
30 1/4"x09" Carriage Bolts
30 1/4" hole Fender Washers
30 1/4" fine thread Nuts
01 lb. 16d Galvanized Sinker Type Nails
01 lb. 08d Galvanized Sinker Type Nails
01 pkg. 08d Galvanized Finish Type Nails
04 #10 Eyes (Wood Screw Type)
02 #10 Galvanized S Hooks
01 Gallon Frye Liquid Lap Cement
01 1/2" Standoff Insulator
01 1/2" Standoff Support
01 Gas Arkla Flaming Head Lamp
20 ft. Copper Natural Gas Piping
01 3/8" Double Female Flare Connector
01 9" 20 gauge Solid Copper 1/2 Sphere
01 8" Clear Pyrex Glass Globe (Vented)
05 2" Solid Brass Numerals
01 10" Solid Brass Eagle with mount
01 7"x9"x19" USPS Approved Vinyl Covered Mailbox
04 #8x3/4" Galvanized Wood Screws
01 Gallon Penta Wood Preservative
10 Cu. Ft. Horticulturally Stable Expanded Slate
01 Tray Baltic Ivy
01 Tray Assorted Plants

Dimensions:
The Postbox/Planter consists of two 10' vertical posts, separated by a shorter 5' post at the base and 4" spacers at each crossbar.
The base, after being treated with the lap cement, is covered with a Cedar housing, which is also treated overall with lap cement. A second Cedar housing is built over this housing and treated with lap cement up to the ground line and capped with molding trim.
The crossbars are placed to the front and rear of the vertical posts, parallel to the horizon at specified locations. The topmost, shortest crossbars are located two inches down from the top of the vertical posts, leaving 2 inches exposed to their right. The center crossbars are located 12 inches below the bottom of the top crossbars, leaving 9 inches exposed to the left. The bottom crossbars are located 18 inches below the bottom of the center crossbars, leaving 9 inches exposed to the right.
The smallest planter box assembly is placed on the left of the bottom crossbars and its interior coated 4 times with lap cement. The mailbox is placed on the right of the bottom crossbars. The address numeral bar is hung below the center crossbars, affixed to the rearmost bar and on the right. The copper dome is hung below the uppermost crossbars and is affixed to the front bar two inches in from the outside end using the insulated standoff and bracket. The eagle is affixed to the top of the structure.
The largest planter box is placed into the ground around the base of the structure, the interior is coated with 4 coats of lap cement and the exterior is coated with 1 coat of lap cement. The assembled growing medium planter box is placed inside of the largest stationary planter box. The larger planter box assembly creates a hydroculture reservoir and the smaller planter box is the growing chamber, which contains the growing medium of horticulturally stable expanded slate.
The Gas Lamp burner assembly is fed via the copper pipe through the standoff insulators and bracket assembly, which also holds the vented clear glass globe. The lamp is ignited and the plants planted.


Please Note These Changes and/or Additions Made To The Postbox/Planter Since the Original Installation.

From the Bill of Materials, please remove these items as they were stolen or destroyed.
01 Arkla Flaming Head Gas Lamp
01 Double Female Flare Connector
01 Clear Pyrex Glass Globe
01 Brass Eagle
01 Vinyl Covered Mailbox

The Above Items Have Been Replaced With the Following, please add these to the Bill of Materials.
02 12 Volt Solar Collectors with Twin Lamps
20 Ft. 14 Gauge Stranded UV Protected Outdoor Wiring
01 #44 S.C. Bayonet Lampholder
01 #555 S.C. Bayonet Lampholder
02 1/4 watt Halogen Lamps
01 8" dia. White Glass Globe
01 6" Solid Brass Eagle
01 7"x9"x19" USPS Approved Deluxe Mailbox

The Corrected Bill of Materials Is Exact as the Deutschmann Diefenbach Postbox/Planter Now Stands!

The Solar Collectors with built-in twin Halogen lamps were mounted 2' above the leftmost vertical post and affixed thereto by a Y shaped custom manufactured supporting bracket.
The #555 Lampholder and bright Halogen lamp replaced the Gas Flameburner and the #44 Lampholder with normal Halogen lamp was placed on the forward crossarm in front of and above the address numerals bar and both wired to the Solar Collectors.
The large eagle was replaced with a smaller eagle of like design and affixed to the top of the rightmost vertical post.
The Vinyl covered mailbox was replaced with a Deluxe model of a standard heavy aluminum mailbox.


New note:
The solar collectors and brass eagle were recently stolen.
A 5 amp., 12 volt power supply was installed inside of the house and 50' of electrical wiring was run to the Postbox/Planter having been installed through the existing abandoned gas line and connected to the existing wiring on the Postbox/Planter. The upper lighting to replace the internal lighting of the Solar Collectors was not installed. However, two low cost plastic lighting fixtures were installed over each planter box after converting them from 110 volts over to 12 volt Halogen type lamps.
A cute blue ceramic, glass and stone Dove was used to replace the Brass Eagle atop the rightmost post and a small #44 Lampholder and standard #44 bulb was affixed into the wood crossbeam to give it illumination.


After the Postbox/Planter was run over by a van in 1998, the following changes were made.
The Postbox/Planter was re-erected using new Wolmanized Lumber for its support, spliced in place by removing the existing two Cedar Overlays of the base, installing the new lumber, and overlaying it with new unbroken Cedar Overlays.
The White Glass Globe was not replaced.
The Plastic lighting fixtures were not replaced.
All of the remaining lampholders and Halogen lamps were replaced. One had a built in globe of sorts, like a common 100 watt vanity globe light, but was 12 volt Halogen.
The upper planter box was not replanted and left empty.
The Dove was lying on the ground but disappeared sometime while the officer was writing up the report. This Dove was later replaced with a common concrete Dove painted blue.

The wiring to the lamps that was inside of the abandoned gas line, which was kinked when the accident occurred, apparently had cut the wiring. It was not long, perhaps a year after the Postbox/Planter was re-erected that the lighting became dim. Replacement of the transformer did not alleviate the problem and an inspection of the exposed wiring showed no faults. The kinked area of the copper tubing was now encased in concrete and attempts to install new wiring through this kink failed. So the lighting was abandoned in the latter part of 2000. In 2002 when the postbox/planter was relocated a few feet over, all of the wiring and lampholders was removed from the unit, leaving only the copper dome and Dove.

[yogi]

Gary~
My apologies for the misunderstanding. The Attachment TAB is located at the bottom of the text editing window under the Preview, et al, button. When you click on the "Attachments" tab some instructions will magically appear. Basically just use the [Add files] button to upload the attachments. There is a place to add a caption/text to the image as well.

It is entirely possible you do not see the Attachments TAB on your monitor. That would be a problem I would need to investigate. I'm using Windows here about 99% of the time, but if there is a Linux rendering issue, I'll fire up one of my Linux boxes to have a look-see.

[yogi]

Apparently we are getting our posts crossed. LOL Be that as it may, I might just use my screenshots to put something in the instructions section of our forums for future reference.

Most of all I want to thank you for going through all the trouble to dig up the old photographs. By doing so you have reaffirmed my impression of you as being a master craftsman and borderline genius inventor. Given the price of lumber these days, post pandemic and new import duties, I doubt that your masterpiece can be recreated for under $100 even when readily available stock is used. If I really had a compelling urge to recreate your sculpture, it probably would have to be approved by the HOA. I'd guess that's when the blueprints would come in handy, but I doubt they would allow anything but the standard mailbox from WalMart to mar the beauty of the Ticky Tacky streets in my subdivision.

BTW
The MS Word doc opened seamlessly. Of course it opened in LibreOffice given that I have not had MS Word installed on any of my computers since about 1998. LOL I am totally impressed that this all works as well as it does.

[Kellemora]

It's in odt, but I converted it to doc since I knew you used Windows, as do most other folks who might happen along.
I just realized why I don't have a digital copy of the actual blueprints. They were on large sheets of paper, probably 2 foot x 3 foot in size, and I didn't have a scanner until years later, and by them it was filed away somewhere, and even possibly lost during one of our two floods. In my search, I found some other old paper items that were wet, moldy, dried out, and saved, and now they are roughly eaten up from age and would probably crumble if I tried getting them out the big folder they are stuck in, hi hi.

Oh, the text version was written up to give to an insurance company who only wanted to give me 25 bucks for my mailbox repairs. When they got the listing, and a verification from the driver who hit it, on what it looked like, they sent me like 600 bucks.
He spelled Diefenbach wrong on the blueprints, so I did the same on the bill of materials list from it. It should be Dieffenbach.
There is a Diefenbach and two Dieffenbach's in Germany. Ours was part-time under French rule.

I wish I had some photo's of when it was new, and of the later modifications, because it really looked neat.
Especially with that Arkla gas flame ball. It did not use a mantle so was not bright, but had an open flame burning inside the clear glass globe.

I also recall, I only had the larger mailbox on it when I had it in Des Peres, after I moved to Creve Coeur I had to remove it and that is when I added the upper planter box. While my wife was in the hospital, our mailman watered the plants for me, since I was staying at the hospital during her open heart surgery. After she was finally back home, he would bring our mail to the door for us, and did this for about a month. We had that same mailman for around 14 years. After that, we had a new one about once every 3 years.

Don't know how I missed that Attachment tab when I was hunting for it the first time. Strike it up to old age and senility, hi hi.

[yogi]

Once again I want to thank you for all the effort you put into satisfying my curiosity. I too wish I could have seen the original, but what you were able to show is impressive all on its own. I have an inborn admiration for items of quality and what you constructed there is well beyond anything that can be produced commercially. I know you put your full effort into projects you think are worthy of your attention and your skills as well as your efforts are clearly obvious here.

I guess you are right when you assume the average Windows user is locked into Microsoft Office. The computer I brought home from Motorola, when I still worked there, had Office 97 installed in it and I used that for a few years. I discovered Open Office back then and never went back to the Office Suite from Redmond. I abandoned Open Office when Oracle bought it and decided to give it little to no maintenance. They probably changed their attitude by now, but it's too late as far as I'm concerned. LibreOffice works just fine and will open and save anything Microsoft can.

Speaking of Microsoft, in spite of their declaration that Windows 10 is the last OS they will develop before making it all a service, there will be a Windows 11 announcement in a couple weeks. The end of life cycle for Windows 10 is set fort 2025. This is ominous for guys like me. LOL I might have to consider abandoning Windows 7 after all. Even nVidia will no longer support their products on it after October of this year. This is how Windows 98 came to an end when I decided I wasn't ever going to upgrade from there.

[Kellemora]

Thank You Yogi! - I wish I had pictures of many of the things I created over the years.
Many of the items I did build were created from things I had laying around with no other use for.
Such as the Arkla Gas Lamp I added to my mailbox. It could not work as a post lamp, had to be hanging for one.
They were used inside a restaurant as a decoration, not for light, because they were just a dancing open flame, but inside a glass globe. One would think it would get very hot, but it didn't, and ran much cooler than a gas lamp with a mantle, and used much less gas too, less than 1/4th of what a mantle style lamp used.

I actually started out with Word Perfect, as far as the not supplied with the computer word processing programs.
I used msWrite up until they changed how it worked, the used msWord up until I was in the tri-fold designing and printing business. This is when the way msWord worked that reared its ugly head.
I switched to Open Office and used it up until LibreOffice came out. But Open Office worked perfect for my tri-folds and with any printer I chose to do the printing on or with. Most printing was contracted out to a printing company.
msWord used whatever printer you had connected to your computer to determine page margins, and no two printers are alike.
And for commercial printing purposes, you had to have a bleed edge. The only way to achieve this in msWord was to create your own paper size larger than 8-1/2 x 11 and override the default printer settings. msWord did not like me telling it I had a 9 x 12 printer when I didn't hi hi.
Open Office let me set the page margins to any size I wanted, even if my own printer would not print beyond the capability of that printer. Naturally the printer itself could not print as wide as my tri-fold ink cover allowed, which is why most of the work was sent to a commercial printer. Either that or make the tri-folds an odd size smaller than the norm, and have to trim each one. This was a pain to do when I was printing them myself, hi hi.

I still have an old Windows XP PRO MCE computer here. It is up and running, and on my KVM switch, because I use it to play some old games on when I have the chance. My wife has well over a hundred games written for XP that will not work on Win7 and definitely not on Win10. It is not on my LAN though, so is basically stand alone.

[yogi]

All the homes I owned previous to the one I own today were ongoing Do It Yourself projects. Even the brand new house we had custom built required a lot of my handyman skills to bring it up to our style of living. Many of the projects were learning experiences and things I never did before. That meant I had to not only learn how to do it but also acquire the proper tools. Then there is the materials. I got to a point in my DIY career where I learned that whatever my best estimate was for the materials I would need, I should double that quantity when I purchase them. It's not that I misjudged the needs, but that learning curve I was on made me do some things several times before I got it right. Doing that for fifty+ years meant that I acquired a lot of tools and a lot of extra materials. I think I did pretty much what you did/do but on a much smaller scale. Moving here to our final resting place meant that there was no need for that massive collection of tools and material. Nearly everything I acquired during my apprenticeship of home ownership never made it to the moving van. Been here in MIssouri for five years now and haven't missed any of the tools I left behind. The only one I actually have used was the electric hand drill. Even then I like to use the hand crank drill my dad left me from his collection. So, you see, even if I could talk the HOA into letting me put something creative on the front lawn, I'd have to acquire a whole slew of tools to build it. Then, finding items in my basement or garage to make the creation unique would be impossible. They don't exist. All my masterpieces and most of the tools I used to assemble them are in some garbage dump 300 miles from here.


My first word processor was Word Star and it ran on an OS called CPM. I'm not sure Windows was even invented at that time, or if it was it was in the 3.x phase of its existence. Any software I needed for business purposes was supplied by Motorola. I worked for them and when I came home I didn't need to be reminded of what I was doing to earn a living. All that changed when I got my own computer.

[Kellemora]

When I first started out doing work for others, I did so in order to buy the right tool for the job.
That is how I amassed so many tools, had one for every trade too, hi hi.
I let almost all of them go at auction before I moved south, but kept those I knew I needed to restore a house.

My first computer was the Heath/Zenith Octal Entry, to which I added a paper tape drive and paper tape punch.
Saved from entering so much by hand each time. It was basically a toy for which I never found a useful purpose.
That didn't come until after the Apple I, II and finally the II+ where I wrote many programs in Basic, and used the Apple II at work, after I bought a 1,600 dollar printer 9-pin dot matrix is all it was too.

[yogi]

I don't recall the exact sequence, but my introduction to computers went something like this.

Working for Motorola on a production line helped me learn about high tech tools. Computers were basically lab experiments at the time I was hired, but I liked the idea when I first heard about them. One of the business ventures Motorola pioneered was building memory chips in a plant in Arizona. From that they got into building CPU's in the same facility. Even at that stage of the game, the manufacturing of our products did not involve the use of computers. Thus I didn't have any hands on experience as a result of my job. However, because Motorola was manufacturing chips, they offered in house courses for people who were interested or involved with product development. It was when those courses became available that I took one in assembly language for the 6800 CPU. To my amazement I intuitively understood quite a bit of what was taught in class. While I became enlightened, there was no opportunity for me to use that knowledge on the job or at home.

About the time I took that programming class my interest in astrology was coming to a peak. Most of the math involved was done by astronomers and published in tables that were easily attainable. While working with tables was adequate I dreamed of someday owning a computer that would do the calculations for me. Well, computers were damned expensive back then, but certain calculators, such as the TI-59, were within my reach. I bought a TI-59 because it was programmable and had magnetic strips on which you could store your programs. What amazed me more than anything else was that the coding for that calculator was in reality assembly language. Since I already had that class, learning the TI-59 language was easy peasey. The calculator also had an attachable thermal strip printer so that I could preserve the output in that way.

By the time I mastered the astrology calculations using the TI-59 calculator, I was using a desktop version of it that was made by HP; it was called a 9826 calculator. The HP calculator did all that the TI machine did, but it was more powerful and had slots for interface cards. There were SCSI expansion cards that we connected to racks of test equipment, and thus the first "computerized" test equipment was introduced to Motorola's production environment. It was more than ironic that we were using HP calculators in the role of a computer while we had cornered the market on domestic production of CPU chips in Arizona. HP didn't use Motorola chips, but Apple computer did.

About the time Motorola decided to fill their offices with Apple computer gear, which sat alongside the HP controllers, personal computers were invented. One of the engineering groups decided to dump HP and go with ... PET Computers to run a rack of test equipment. PET had more capability than the HP calculators but the engineers designing the test suit were flying by the seat of their pants. I never got to programming the PET and it didn't look like I would. A whole slew of personal computers flooded the market at that time; even HP got into the fracas. Because of our sweetheart relationship with HP I asked one of the sales people if I could buy a PC from HP. They said no that wasn't possible, but HP employees were allowed to purchase them. She would be happy to buy one for me if I promised to pay her back. LOL It was a second generation PC for HP called the HP-85. I think it went fo $6,000 or some crazy price like that. 16 MB memory cards were around $700 extra; yes, I mean MEGA not GIGA.

I used the HP-85 as I did the TI calculator, but the computer had HP-BASIC built into it. Programming was a lot easier, but none of the TI programs would transfer over. I could have written the programs in assembly, but HP did a crazy thing for reasons I never could fathom. All the assemblers I ever worked with used hexadecimal. HP decided octal was better. Nobody in the entire industry agreed with them, but HP always was arrogant about their designs. Anyway, I was disappointed that I could not use assembly on that HP-85. It had a 5 1/4" floppy drive; two actually if I recall right. It was on those floppies that I was able to run CPM and learned about Word Star. For all I know Linux would have booted too, but at that time Linux wasn't invented yet. LOL

About the time I was getting tired of the HP computer, Bill Gates was starting to make his mark. This prompted me to get a computer that could run Windows, and, well, the rest is all history. It's probably more than you wanted to know, but I enjoyed going over the memories and sharing them with you.

[Kellemora]

I once owned a programmable calculator, but it had no way to save what you programmed into it.
So you had to type it all in each time you wanted to do a special calculation with it.

Now that's funny about your HP calculators in the Motorola chip factory, hi hi.

I enjoyed reading about your history with computers!

I loved all the Apple and MAC computers I owned. But when I started doing work for others I was forced to buy an msDOS computer, and it grew along with Windows 3.0, then 3.11, etc.
Most of the computer programs I wrote in Basic for work, could be converted over to PCs easily enough.
But almost none of those I wrote to do special things on the Apple computers would work on a PC no matter how they were rewritted because they made heavy use of the 6502 processor codes, Peeks, Pokes, Calls, etc.
Some of the Utility Programs I wrote for disk handling, and copying of locked or spiraled disks is what caused Beagle Bros. to step up and take note of my work. The good old days when computers were fairly simple, hi hi.