During the 76 years of my life every caregiver I've conferred with for medical advice relied on two factors: their intuition and statistical data they are familiar with. The intuition comes with experience and not from text books in medical school. While intuition is often what makes a doctor superior or just average, it certainly is not scientific nor is it reliable. The reliability of any diagnosis and prognosis is established by statistics. The generally accepted statistical trial period is ten years. Whatever conclusions emerges with that amount of data has a high degree of certainty. The confidence gained is not due to the length of time, i.e., ten years of data. The number of cases, or test data, obtained over a ten year period establishes confidence in a given medical treatment.
Long term effects of a treatment are thought to be revealed after ten years, but that assumption is slightly misleading. Nearly all the side effects of a medical treatment are known at the time of it's approval for general use. Thus, the ten years after that approval serves only to collect data not only to affirm the effectiveness of the treatment, but to also document the frequency of occurrence of the unwanted side effects. The statistics after the ten years rarely depart significantly from the original data set.
In terms of the COVID vaccine, none of the traditional preliminary testing was bypassed. The same amount of testing was done in a year instead of over a more usual three year period. This was made possible by huge grants of cash to the pharmaceutical companies that developed the COVID vaccine. The influx of cash allowed for testing on a timely schedule that cannot be implemented when a company must raise their own resources to develop a vaccine. The bottom line here is that the testing done to gain approval of the current vaccines was identical to the usual research and development process. The time factor was shortened for obvious reasons.
I will note that we still do not have ten years of data to establish the statistical confidence so many non-medical people are concerned about. We do have data regarding the effectiveness and the side effects. The number of people who are willing to risk their lives, and that of their close friends and relatives, because they want ten years of data is to me totally incomprehensible.
FWIW
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Re: FWIW
I think Covid is actually here to stay for the long haul. Just like all of the childhood diseases that plagued us for years, until viable vaccines were available.
What we don't hear is all the normal annual things people get every year, year in and year out, despite vaccines.
Has Influenza finally been eradicated? Not likely. Or are all Flu cases being reported as Covid? Most likely!
I'll just keep hiding in my office until they come out with an approved vaccine. That normally takes ten years or longer!
What we don't hear is all the normal annual things people get every year, year in and year out, despite vaccines.
Has Influenza finally been eradicated? Not likely. Or are all Flu cases being reported as Covid? Most likely!
I'll just keep hiding in my office until they come out with an approved vaccine. That normally takes ten years or longer!
Re: FWIW
The popular vaccines will be approved for general use next month, September, 2021. 
On a slightly different note, I just returned with my wife from the outpatient facility at the local hospital. She had the cataracts in her left eye removed, and I guess they replace the lens in the process. The procedure was completed in less than 45 minutes, which is about half the time I had expected. Then again, I didn't know what to expect. She has a metal patch over the new improved eye, but the patch is perforated. She claims she can see things with that eye only a few minutes after the surgery was completed. I was shocked and awed by it all. On the way back home, my dear wife felt hungry and wanted to stop at one of our favorite restaurants. So, we did. And she read the menu with only a slight amount of difficulty. We were given a private room for our stay. Admittedly it was about the size of a large walk-in closet with just about no medical equipment mounted to the walls, but it was comfortable enough for our purposes. I got to wait in that room during the process.
All of this truly amazed me. It was about the same as going to the dentist for a filling. However, the dentists are much closer to home and not covered by medicare.
On a slightly different note, I just returned with my wife from the outpatient facility at the local hospital. She had the cataracts in her left eye removed, and I guess they replace the lens in the process. The procedure was completed in less than 45 minutes, which is about half the time I had expected. Then again, I didn't know what to expect. She has a metal patch over the new improved eye, but the patch is perforated. She claims she can see things with that eye only a few minutes after the surgery was completed. I was shocked and awed by it all. On the way back home, my dear wife felt hungry and wanted to stop at one of our favorite restaurants. So, we did. And she read the menu with only a slight amount of difficulty. We were given a private room for our stay. Admittedly it was about the size of a large walk-in closet with just about no medical equipment mounted to the walls, but it was comfortable enough for our purposes. I got to wait in that room during the process.
All of this truly amazed me. It was about the same as going to the dentist for a filling. However, the dentists are much closer to home and not covered by medicare.
Re: FWIW
My doc wants me to get cataract surgery, but so far it is only affecting my vision around bright lights, so I'm holding off as long as possible.
I took Debi's mom for hers a few times. But she also had macular degeneration, as does Debi's sister. She's hoping she is spared getting it herself.
Just before I moved south, I took a deaf man for a special implant they put in his upper jawbone.
I don't know much about it. He had two incision, one on each side of his face, about an inch in front of each ear.
There was a small bump in the skin below each of those incision marks too, which he said was the batteries.
I assume it took him 1/2 a year to learn to hear with them, but mom said she could talk to him and he understood her just fine.
This is not the same guy I told you about who used to play the jukebox and lay his hands on a speaker to feel the music.
From what I understand, how this all came about was he would place a drumstick crosswise in his mouth and when he did that, he could hear the music being played. Over time he tried different drumsticks, and then later on cut them down to the width of his mouth and added a metal wire in each end. Said he could here the music better. Told this to a doctor of his, who put him in contact with some institute somewhere, and he ended up showing them how to make a few deaf people hear music. They carried the research on and came up with the implants he got.
After mom passed away, I never heard any more about him.
I took Debi's mom for hers a few times. But she also had macular degeneration, as does Debi's sister. She's hoping she is spared getting it herself.
Just before I moved south, I took a deaf man for a special implant they put in his upper jawbone.
I don't know much about it. He had two incision, one on each side of his face, about an inch in front of each ear.
There was a small bump in the skin below each of those incision marks too, which he said was the batteries.
I assume it took him 1/2 a year to learn to hear with them, but mom said she could talk to him and he understood her just fine.
This is not the same guy I told you about who used to play the jukebox and lay his hands on a speaker to feel the music.
From what I understand, how this all came about was he would place a drumstick crosswise in his mouth and when he did that, he could hear the music being played. Over time he tried different drumsticks, and then later on cut them down to the width of his mouth and added a metal wire in each end. Said he could here the music better. Told this to a doctor of his, who put him in contact with some institute somewhere, and he ended up showing them how to make a few deaf people hear music. They carried the research on and came up with the implants he got.
After mom passed away, I never heard any more about him.
Re: FWIW
I've read about deaf people who were made to hear again, but I don't recall a drumstick being involved in any of it. LOL I suppose there might be many reasons for deafness and some of those could be overcome. If the cochlear nerve is not working for some reason, I think the situation is hopeless. If the problem is before the nerve then in theory some solid medium could replace the eardrum function. I guess some hearing is better than no hearing, but I doubt that the frequency response of an artificial ear is the same as a natural ear.
I was impressed with the simplicity of my wife's cataract surgery. We went for a follow up visit to the doctor today and she removed the patch. There is still some cloudiness n the vision in that eye, but it should all clear up in a few days. Other than the fact it must be done in a hospital, the procedure is probably less of a hassle than getting a cavity filled in your teeth. No drilling and no pain. In fact she was (mostly) conscious through all of it. Recovery was 30 minutes and we were on our way home after that.
I was impressed with the simplicity of my wife's cataract surgery. We went for a follow up visit to the doctor today and she removed the patch. There is still some cloudiness n the vision in that eye, but it should all clear up in a few days. Other than the fact it must be done in a hospital, the procedure is probably less of a hassle than getting a cavity filled in your teeth. No drilling and no pain. In fact she was (mostly) conscious through all of it. Recovery was 30 minutes and we were on our way home after that.
Re: FWIW
As for what I've seen, dad's cataract surgeries were different. First one was uneventful and successful. No further issues in replacing the natural with the glass lens. The second one had an issue since the cornea got slightly clouded, and didn't allow him to see very well at the beginning, he hed to go get a laser correction surgery to improve his sight. He says that he sees almost 80% of the best he can remember, but as far as I've seen, distance evaluation loss is his main sight problem. As he can't adjust the artificial lenses in his eyes, and lateral sight didn't get the same, he has to take it easy and avoid fast movements to avoid accidents.yogi wrote: ↑20 Aug 2021, 17:12 I was impressed with the simplicity of my wife's cataract surgery. We went for a follow up visit to the doctor today and she removed the patch. There is still some cloudiness n the vision in that eye, but it should all clear up in a few days. Other than the fact it must be done in a hospital, the procedure is probably less of a hassle than getting a cavity filled in your teeth. No drilling and no pain. In fact she was (mostly) conscious through all of it. Recovery was 30 minutes and we were on our way home after that.
Re: FWIW
There are potential complications with any surgery, even the filling of a tooth cavity. We do not know at this point if my wife will have any issues. My impressions of the procedure itself are what I'm talking about here. The surgery is delicate and I expected it to be more complicated than it evidently was. The out patient department was a typical hospital atmosphere, but there obviously was some effort put into making patient and visitors comfortable as possible. I received a letter from the hospital today saying that starting next week proof of vaccination or negative test results for COVID must be presented in order to visit the out patient. I know some people object to that, but I personally welcome the precaution.
Re: FWIW
Folks are getting crazy out there.
People who had the Covid shots are still getting sick, and making others sick too, whether they had a shot or not.
Someone said it just may be those who did get the Covid shots that become the super-spreaders of the virus.
As for me, I'll just stay hidden in my garage away from everyone, hi hi.
People who had the Covid shots are still getting sick, and making others sick too, whether they had a shot or not.
Someone said it just may be those who did get the Covid shots that become the super-spreaders of the virus.
As for me, I'll just stay hidden in my garage away from everyone, hi hi.
Re: FWIW
Folks out there indeed are crazy. When they don't know the facts about something that worries them, they make up stories or consume all the conspiracy theories they can find. The super spreaders are those folks who are not vaccinated and attend large gatherings unmasked and avoid any social distancing. These folks are just exercising their rights and freedom of choices as good citizens. The breakthrough cases of COVID are relatively rare, and the hospitalizations and deaths of such people are even more rare. But, of course, as well intended and honest news and social media would naturally do, all the attention goes to these rare cases. It somehow justifies their free choices I would guess.
You, my friend, are in effect isolating yourself, except for those times when you are not. Each person has their own comfort zone and I firmly believe you are doing all you can to stay within it. You can be congratulated for that.
You, my friend, are in effect isolating yourself, except for those times when you are not. Each person has their own comfort zone and I firmly believe you are doing all you can to stay within it. You can be congratulated for that.
Re: FWIW
My wife got the two shots because she was afraid of carrying it home to me.
As a cashier, she faces hundreds of customers per day.
What she finds odd is the number of people who are testing positive for Covid who have no symptoms and never do really get it.
Doesn't seem to matter if they were vaccinated or not. Most of the hispanic customers have not had the shots either.
I think the number of government officials who have not got the shot outweighs the number that have.
I don't know that for a fact of course, but those claiming they didn't or are said to not have got one is very high.
What I worry about is the shot may actually do me in, considering my heart and lungs are just barely working as it is.
As a cashier, she faces hundreds of customers per day.
What she finds odd is the number of people who are testing positive for Covid who have no symptoms and never do really get it.
Doesn't seem to matter if they were vaccinated or not. Most of the hispanic customers have not had the shots either.
I think the number of government officials who have not got the shot outweighs the number that have.
I don't know that for a fact of course, but those claiming they didn't or are said to not have got one is very high.
What I worry about is the shot may actually do me in, considering my heart and lungs are just barely working as it is.
Re: FWIW
I'll admit to having the wrong impression of this COVID vaccination back in the early days of the pandemic. A vaccine was being developed at breakneck speed and I was thinking in terms of measles and polio, both of which I was vaccinated against as a kid. My thoughts from those vaccines were that the medication cured or eliminated the disease. That is factually incorrect.
The vaccines are designed to increase a person's resistance to a particular infection. That means a vaccinated person has a better chance of fighting off the disease and not suffering it's worst case manifestations. When enough people are at that higher level of resistance, the transmission rate drops dramatically (herd immunity). Eventually, as was the case with measles and polio and most influenza, the disease disappears. The success of irradiating the dreaded disease depends on the number of people with high immunity, i.e., the number of people vaccinated. Proof of that concept is in the fact that all those childhood diseases are no longer a threat.
In the case of COVID-19 and it's offspring, the virus is transmitted through the air from an infected person. Having had the vaccination does not reduce or stop this transmission process. Thus the need for masking and social distancing becomes overwhelming. The success of the COVID vaccine will depend on the number of people who are immune. Those immunized may still carry the virus and transmit it, but they will not react to it nearly to the degree as unvaccinated people. The virus dies off fairly quickly so that the immunized person becomes safe a lot sooner than somebody who is trying to fight it off naturally without immunization. That extended time frame for being infected is what is dangerous because it allows for significantly more opportunities to spread it. Vaccinated people typically eliminate the virus from their systems in a much shorter time frame and thereby reduce the number of opportunities to spread the germs.
Also a misconception on my part was that being vaccinated made you bullet proof. That is clearly not the case with COVID-19. Some people will become infected, experience the worst symptoms, and die even though they have been fully vaccinated. That fact is an issue with each individual's immune system and not a fault with the vaccine. Nobody ever claimed the shot is 100% effective for everyone who gets it.
Another misconception I held was that the vaccine is a live germ injected into your system. That low dose of the live germ is what encourages your body to manufacture antibodies. Perhaps that was the case in the past, but the current vaccine does not work that way. The current version has no live germs, but it does have mRNA. That mRNA is the immunity carrier. Your body will respond by replicating the immunity as opposed to trying to fight off a low quality live virus. People who have a compromised immunity system will benefit from this new technique because it does not demand building of antibodies. The immunity is already there in the mRNA. Similar to previous vaccines, the current COVID vaccine does not act identically in all people. Some folks won't benefit at all from it.
I do not know enough about the vaccine to offer a guess how your system would react to it. Intuitively I'd say there would be no harm. Your body will replicate the immunity given to you in the vaccine, or it will not. The vaccine will not demand that you come up with some new antibody it never produced before. Talking it over with your doctor would be the best advice to follow. I'm guessing you already did that.
The vaccines are designed to increase a person's resistance to a particular infection. That means a vaccinated person has a better chance of fighting off the disease and not suffering it's worst case manifestations. When enough people are at that higher level of resistance, the transmission rate drops dramatically (herd immunity). Eventually, as was the case with measles and polio and most influenza, the disease disappears. The success of irradiating the dreaded disease depends on the number of people with high immunity, i.e., the number of people vaccinated. Proof of that concept is in the fact that all those childhood diseases are no longer a threat.
In the case of COVID-19 and it's offspring, the virus is transmitted through the air from an infected person. Having had the vaccination does not reduce or stop this transmission process. Thus the need for masking and social distancing becomes overwhelming. The success of the COVID vaccine will depend on the number of people who are immune. Those immunized may still carry the virus and transmit it, but they will not react to it nearly to the degree as unvaccinated people. The virus dies off fairly quickly so that the immunized person becomes safe a lot sooner than somebody who is trying to fight it off naturally without immunization. That extended time frame for being infected is what is dangerous because it allows for significantly more opportunities to spread it. Vaccinated people typically eliminate the virus from their systems in a much shorter time frame and thereby reduce the number of opportunities to spread the germs.
Also a misconception on my part was that being vaccinated made you bullet proof. That is clearly not the case with COVID-19. Some people will become infected, experience the worst symptoms, and die even though they have been fully vaccinated. That fact is an issue with each individual's immune system and not a fault with the vaccine. Nobody ever claimed the shot is 100% effective for everyone who gets it.
Another misconception I held was that the vaccine is a live germ injected into your system. That low dose of the live germ is what encourages your body to manufacture antibodies. Perhaps that was the case in the past, but the current vaccine does not work that way. The current version has no live germs, but it does have mRNA. That mRNA is the immunity carrier. Your body will respond by replicating the immunity as opposed to trying to fight off a low quality live virus. People who have a compromised immunity system will benefit from this new technique because it does not demand building of antibodies. The immunity is already there in the mRNA. Similar to previous vaccines, the current COVID vaccine does not act identically in all people. Some folks won't benefit at all from it.
I do not know enough about the vaccine to offer a guess how your system would react to it. Intuitively I'd say there would be no harm. Your body will replicate the immunity given to you in the vaccine, or it will not. The vaccine will not demand that you come up with some new antibody it never produced before. Talking it over with your doctor would be the best advice to follow. I'm guessing you already did that.
Re: FWIW
For most infectious diseases the cause is some microorganism entering to the body of some multicelular living being and reproducing using the being resources. That's why the diseased organism is called "the host" and the microorganism causing the disease is called "the guest". The point of all is identifying the different types of guests based on what symptoms they cause and where do they tend to concentrate more. Now to fight them, the difference is in the way doctors identify a way to debilitate them and help the body fighting them or helping the body recognize them someway so the body fights them in a more efficient manner.
Observation and experimentation has brought us a long way from the time before pills and vaccines to what we get today... As Dennis has said it all depends on the medical advice you've surely got, and each of us assess the risk based on our own particular background... Gary, hope you'll keep as safe as possible.
Observation and experimentation has brought us a long way from the time before pills and vaccines to what we get today... As Dennis has said it all depends on the medical advice you've surely got, and each of us assess the risk based on our own particular background... Gary, hope you'll keep as safe as possible.
Re: FWIW
Well I heard the Pfizer vaccine was just approved by the FDA.
How much it cost them to get that pushed through is anybodies guess.
On another note, I'm hearing some bad news from a few doctors who do autopsies.
The Covid Spike vaccine is starting to prove Toxic, not Antigen as claimed.
It is attacking vital organs of the body.
I'm going to do some more research on this today to see if I can come up with better sources than just two Doctors.
How much it cost them to get that pushed through is anybodies guess.
On another note, I'm hearing some bad news from a few doctors who do autopsies.
The Covid Spike vaccine is starting to prove Toxic, not Antigen as claimed.
It is attacking vital organs of the body.
I'm going to do some more research on this today to see if I can come up with better sources than just two Doctors.
Re: FWIW
It's not from Tucker Carlson, but you might find this information interesting: https://www.reuters.com/article/factche ... SL2N2NX1J6