Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

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yogi
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

Post by yogi »

I was into comic books in a big way and I probably saw those Palisade Park tickets which you describe. I never paid attention to them because I knew I'd never get to use them.

You are correct to point out that voting is the American Way. It's also the way in China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran, as well as a few zillion other places. Nobody was more surprised at my voting effort than my daughter. She had witnessed my indifference during her entire life. My response to her was that this one is important. I felt a strong need to stand up for something.

I might, or might not, have a final political comment when this is all settled. For now it's best to allow events to unfold as they will. There is no point, really, going over what we have disagreed on in the past. Further elaborations would simply be fruitless.

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Kellemora
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

Post by Kellemora »

I voted, you voted, so we performed our civic duty.

The question that remains is, did my vote get tossed in a trash can, or yours get ten more added to it?

Seems there is a lot of fraudulent activities going on, and all of them outside the rules they are supposed to follow.

Seems to me, each vote should be counted by at least three different people, and their counts compared, and if all three numbers don't match up, they should have to do it again until it is correct.

Heck, even here in TN with the new scanners. They take all the papers out of the scanning machines and rerun them again to make sure the numbers the machine shows comes out the same. Our ballots had a bar code on them, and the machine could pick which one didn't match almost instantly, so it could be viewed by a person to see what the problem was for the mismatch. In some cases it was because people used water based markers that soaked through the page to a box on the other side of the page. Only a human looking at the ballot could see what was marked and what was bleed-through.

On another note, I don't think any news should be published about how the votes are running until after 8 pm on the west coast. Just so the east vote counts don't cause a change to what voters were going to vote for on the west coast.
And if people are already in line waiting to vote, they should be cordoned off and still allowed to vote, but not people who come after 8 pm when the polls officially close.

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yogi
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

Post by yogi »

UGH! I started my reply to this post in a virtualbox version of the latest and greatest Ubuntu release. After completing my editing I was going to review it and lost the page altogether. Thus, what I was originally typing got blown away. I'll try to duplicate it here in the WINDOWS version of this website, but I know already it won't be the same. LOL

The way votes are counted, or if they are counted at all, is clearly left to the discretion of each individual state. That is written into the constitution. The various methods used leave the whole system open to criticism, but I guess that is all in the spirit of state sovereignty. If I were to impose a law from the federal level it would be to count all the in person votes up to 11:59 PM of the last day of voting. Nothing after that time gets counted no matter who is standing in line or still filling out their ballot. The exception to this absolute cut off time would be for absentee ballots. A reasonable amount of time should be added onto the deadline to account for situations such as the one we have right now wherein the USPS is holding onto hundreds of thousands of mail-in ballots. Circumstances that are beyond the control of the state voting commissions or the individual voters should not be allowed to penalize the final count.

A lot of discussion in this an prior elections has been aired regarding early announcements of election results. Only a few news outlets this year employed the policy of not making such announcements until all the polls in the country have closed. Likewise some took the stand of not projecting the winner unless the data came from the DNC or the RNC. I'm unsure about how to respond to all this, but I do think the problem lies within the individual voters and not with the broadcast media. A president is not elected by media announcements and opinions. Each voter must take the responsibility of their choice seriously regardless of what some news network has to say. Unfortunately, some people can't do that.

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Kellemora
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

Post by Kellemora »

No matter what method of voting is used by each state. The list of Registered Voters should be purged to remove those who are deceased first. Then each vote should be confirmed to a registered voter. Most states do this by checking your status, giving you a random control number to go to a machine to vote where you enter that random number. Paper ballots also have a code on them, including absentee ballots. Every code should be checked to see that it was officially assigned, and not used more than once.

Then, those doing the counting need to be double or triple checked to make sure they are entering the data correctly, not adding votes or deleting votes.
Personally I think each count of a stack of votes should be done by three people, a Republican, a Democrat, and an Independent. And when the first finishes counting the stack, it moves to the second, and then the third, and all three of their tally's must equal or they have to do that stack over again.
This is about the only way to keep the election fair, and the results accurate.

This nonsense of having 125% of the registered voting is hog wash, and fraud.
In nearly every presidential election, less that 70% of the registered voters come out to vote.
But to have 90 to 125% vote, something is amiss somewhere!

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yogi
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

Post by yogi »

The idea of what is a fair way to count votes is a relative judgment on the part of the people doing the criticism. You can't please all the people all the time and somebody will always object to how things are done. Obviously only qualified voters should be allowed to fill out a ballot, and I am very confident that the qualifications can be verified at the time of the voting. This can be done in much the same manner as is done when issuing a drivers license. Bring proof of eligibility with you, or you don't get to vote. Also, there are impartial and fair ways for machines to count votes. This is 2020 and there is no reason people need to be part of the counting process at all. However, congress in it's infinite wisdom refuses to go that route.

I also agree with the statement that something is amiss with the number saying 125% of the people voted. It appears your source of information is ill informed or deliberately trying to create doubt about the system that has worked for 244 years. If something is broken with our voting process, then we can only hope the next administration will fix it.

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Kellemora
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

Post by Kellemora »

I guess you heard about the glitch in the computer software. It was counting Trump votes as Biden votes.
I think Obama has something to do with about 70% of the counting machines out there too.

Here in TN, we have to have a picture ID, your voter registration card, and be on their list.
They look you up, put a checkmark beside your name, then print out a control number.
In previous years you had to enter the control number in the machine.
This year it was printed on the ballot when they printed it out for you to fill out, then it was scanned.
The scanned paper went inside the machine, and at the end of day, they ran all of them through the scanner again to check that the count shown equaled what it did originally. So far here it has.

Back in Missouri, when we had to use IBM punch cards, hanging chad caused major problems with the count.
They had to make a spinning rubber roller to make sure all the chad was removed and run all the cards again.
Made a big difference in the count too.

On the Memphis end of the state, they too were coming up with boxes of votes, all for Biden, after the polls and counting center had closed. Didn't much matter though because Biden won Memphis. But the state itself won Trump the Electoral votes.

I didn't think any place was allowed to use electronic voting machines this year, I thought it all had to be paper votes, so they could be double checked. But then too, I supposed that is up to each individual state how they do it.

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yogi
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

Post by yogi »

I'm accustomed to doing things the Illinois way. When it comes to voting, however, I have virtually no experience in Illinois but they do have a reputation for more dead people voting than live ones. I'm certain that did and does happen. I'm also very confident the shenanigans are at an absolute minimum and have no effect on the outcome. It's a tough call when it comes to setting up standards for voting and counting due to the mandate that it all should be under the jurisdiction of each individual state. However, the general election for president is one case where I think a federal mandate would be appropriate. Selecting electors and diving up how they vote is a matter of how each state wants to be represented. I think the system is fine but the congressional representative districting rules leave a lot to be desired. I understand why electors are important, but the opportunities for gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement are too great with that system. A popular vote seems less prone to such manipulations.

My experience with voting in Missouri is even less than that I had in Illinois. This election was done on paper ballots and with the procedure being very cognizant of the pandemic. I was told in advance that I need to bring a photo ID or some other government issued document that proves my residence and signature are identical to that on record. I was prepared to do that, but I also brought along a voter ID postcard that was mailed to me a couple weeks before the elections. That card had all the information about me that was necessary, plus it had a barcode. I don't know what that code was all about, but I intuitively figured it was important. That ID card is all I gave to the official. She scanned it, had me sign a touch screen, and check a [DONE] box. She then gave me the pen and ballot to go fill out. The only additional instruction was to take off the film covering from the tip of the pen or else it would not work. LOL So, I can only conclude that since I had the ID card that was all they needed to verify it was the actual me voting. Pretty simple.

We can talk about all the Trump votes that were recorded as Biden if you like, but then I'd have to bring up that the president hired a gun to take down the postal service and slow down it's operation in anticipation of a close election that depends on absentee ballots. There are videos and photographs and postal workers citing the hundreds, if not thousands, of bins full of mail in voting envelopes that never got delivered. We don't know if those are Biden or Trump votes being withheld, but we do know how it all happened. If necessary I'd also bring up the three hand picked justices on the Supreme Court who are deeply committed to a Conservative agenda. They could come in handy if the outcome of the election needs to be decided by that court. Coincident? I think not. But then it's really pointless to debate all this. As you said earlier we did all we can do. The rest is up to the powers that be.

_______
As I was typing this reply the news broke that Joe Biden has won the balloting and will be the next president. I don't know if this outcome will hold up in that there will most likely be a lot of challenges to the vote counts. I do know that this election guaranteed one of us, you or I, were going to be very distraught with the outcome. It saddens me to think you might be distressed and no longer feel comfortable with this country's management. I know how bad I would feel if we had to endure the current situation another four years. My sincere belief is that the gloom and doom you have predicted under a Biden presidency is unwarranted. Of course none of my reassurances that things will not be as bad as you expect can be readily accepted. Nonetheless, my empathy is sincerely expressed, my friend. And, most of all, should Joe Biden actually be the next president, I hope that the friendship you and I share will not be affected by it in any way.

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Kellemora
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

Post by Kellemora »

Most of the swing states and all the battleground states are under close scrutiny right now.
They all used the same "Dominion" computer program that was changing Trump votes to Biden.
This happened once in the past, and all they did was cancel all votes where the checksums didn't match.
Right now the Supreme Court is looking at all the paper ballots without ID marking and only ONE box checked for President and nothing else, all for Biden of course.
It may come down to the Supreme Court making the determination after all the fraudulent votes are taken out.

Absentee Ballots are NOT the same as Mail In Voting Ballots.
You have to apply with all the proper ID to request an Absentee Ballot.
Mail in Ballots were mailed out to everyone haphazardly in the billions.
Heck, I got two myself, and Debi got one, plus we received another showing my first wife's name at this address. She's never lived here or in this state in her entire life.
We could have filled them out and mailed them in, but then we would be looking at 5 years prison terms for doing so.

Personally, I don't care who you voted for, nor should you care who I voted for. We each have our own idea of who should be president. In the end, it won't matter much who is president. Obama did a lot of damage, but it did not affect us poor retired folks all that much. It did cause us to lose our health insurance features, but that is partly due to the insurance companies themselves also.
At the time I bought this house for Debi, had I not done it the way I did, it would have had to be sold to pay the 45% taxes that would have been due. Right now, under Trump, that tax don't exist. But I'm sure if Biden does win, it will be right back again and possibly even higher.

In closing I will only say, Trump has done MANY Great things for this country and its citizens.
It will be a shame to see it all be for naught. What has Biden done for the American citizens?

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yogi
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

Post by yogi »

We generally learn nothing from past mistakes and the history it creates. Regarding fraud and illegal voting there has been next to none in the past. Whatever was detected didn't affect the outcome either way. The 2020 election is extraordinary in many ways, but I believe that the current system of voting is good as it has been in the past 244 years. While there is a lot of huffing and puffing about fraud, if history is an indicator, little, if any, will be found. I do realize that none of the votes cast by us peasants count until the electors do their thing on December 14th. The process of certification is done by the state governors and then the electors are given instructions how to vote based on the certification. In essence this means nobody "wins" the election until mid December. Even then there are a couple things congress must do along the way to January 6th, which is the day they bless it all and the winner is indisputably determined to be official at that time. Here's an interesting blurb on the whole process in case you are not familiar with it: https://www.archives.gov/electoral-college/key-dates

I must agree with you that who you and I voted for is irrelevant. Your comment that in the end it doesn't matter is not as easy for me to agree with. It does matter, a lot, to me which is why I voted for president after 50 years of standing on the sidelines. My daughter thinks I deserve a Cabinet position because obviously my vote determined the outcome. That could be possible, but then she does not know who I voted for. :whistle: Anyway, I'll not be petitioning Joe or his transition team for any favors. I'm perfectly happy being an observer and discussing viewpoints with all my friends on the Internet.

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Kellemora
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

Post by Kellemora »

As they work out the glitch a few counties have flipped back to Trump, but the state was already Red, just now by a wider margin is all.
What has been going on at the state court level is illegal by their own state constitution.
Take PA for example: They have a state law on the books saying they cannot accept any new ballots after the day of the election.
The PA state supreme court overrode that law, which they are not allowed to do to give them three more days to collect votes.
The court does NOT make the laws, they can only enforce them.
The state would have to go back and rewrite the law and get it passed.
So the PA state ruling is invalid, and all those added votes they counted for Biden must be tossed out.
At least we know the Supreme Court of the United States will not and cannot count those illegal votes.
Other states have tried to do the same thing, override their existing laws to swing the vote.
This is the reason for all the lawsuits. They are breaking their own laws to add illegal votes to the count.

I think we should have a complete Do Over, and everyone must go back and vote again, in person, and with an ID. And ONLY those officially obtained absentee ballots be accepted and counted.
Oh, and don't accept votes from Dead People. And believe me, they are finding many of them!

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yogi
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

Post by yogi »

You and I obviously use different sources of reading material. I read that in Pennsylvania certain ballots (I believe absentee ones) have until 12 November to arrive at the counting desk. The vote on those ballots, however, must have been recorded on or prior to the official end of voting, i.e. 3 November. So who has the correct information here? Probably neither one of us. LOL Having said that, I also note as of Sunday 10 lawsuits were submitted by the Trump campaign regarding voting fraud. All of them have been dismissed by the judges. It is my humble opinion that the voting fraud is itself a fraud.

I also understand that not all the votes on hand have been counted yet. Be that as it may Arizona and Georgia have Joe Biden far enough ahead that the uncounted votes can't change the outcome there. If he maintains what he has so far and adds the other places he is leading, what has been termed a "slow landslide" is in progress with the end result of the winner receiving 306 electoral votes and 80 million popular votes. Pennsylvania has 20 electoral votes to offer so that I don't see the point of contesting any of those votes.

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Kellemora
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

Post by Kellemora »

Absentee ballots only need be postmarked by November 3rd. And I thought it was counted by the 8th, could be the 12th?
But most absentee ballots are usually sent in early, and the few stragglers after the 3rd usually don't amount to much. Not enough to swing the vote.

I don't know where you heard the lawsuits were dismissed?
Last night when I checked, both Arizona and Georgia had flipped to Trump by over 100k votes.
Although they showed Trump was down by 19k votes and Biden up by 19k votes, those numbers were not talking about from the total current vote recount. They were talking about historically from what I understood.
They were showing Trump at 1.6 million, and Biden at 1.2 million on the recount, with the 19k down for Trump and 19k up for Biden. Which didn't make sense unless you read what the up and down numbers were from.
Pennsylvania also had Trump ahead slightly, with 77,000 more votes yet to count.

In PA, recently they have already pulled the votes of 69 people all born in the 1800's, and all were for Biden. How did dead people vote if there isn't fraud going on?

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yogi
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

Post by yogi »

Allow me to correct any misconceptions about my comments regarding voting fraud. A record number of votes were cast in this election; something in excess of 150 million if I have the numbers correct. I do not believe each and every one of those 150+ million votes are legal and legitimate. I take that stand based on statistics wherein a normal distribution of legitimate votes would allow for some errors. I don't want to sound presumptuous. but the likelihood of invalid ballots would normally be around six sigma, or 3/million. Thus, based on the 150 million votes cast, 450 of them could reasonably be expected to be invalid, fake, phony, miscalculated or otherwise not acceptable.

I'll also be the first to admit that past performance does not guarantee anything about the present election. However, historically there has not been any evidence of widespread vote fraud. The reason for that is because the system works quite well. Thus, history tells us widespread fraud is not likely.

So, if everything is on the up and up in this 2020 election, how do I explain all the concern about fraud? The most obvious source of concern is the loser. Admittedly every presidential election has seen some challenge to the vote count. This president has taken it to the extreme, so much so that his concerns are upending faith and confidence in the entire American election process. To wit, 70% of Republicans polled this week say they do not believe the results. Along with the vehement challenges (without evidence I might add) is an active campaign to spread disinformation. The difference in numbers that you and I see is a great example. I have no reason to doubt the memes you see on Facebook, but they don't match the dialog on Twitter. It's clear and obvious that somebody is deliberately trying to mislead the masses and create chaos.

As of this writing, we don't know how the electoral votes will tally out in the end. There is no doubt that the popular vote favors the Democrat. That popular vote is totally and violently unacceptable to somebody who might be a clinical narcissist. I am focused on the knowledge that in their minds narcissists never lose.

Well, that's enough explanation from your local poli-sci psycho-analyst wannabe. Take it for what it's worth.

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Kellemora
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

Post by Kellemora »

The software used in 47 states is called Dominion, it was designed, programmed, and owned by democrats.
They have found numerous instances where votes for Trump were switched to Biden by the software.
This has also happened in past elections, but not to the level it has happened in this election.

Every election has a few who cast votes for dead people, but in the past, it was never enough to shift the outcome.
This year is different than past years because the number of dead persons votes is fairly high.

Then we have states accepting votes AFTER their own state constitution does not allow it.
Plus all the illegal votes, in the hundreds of thousands, and improper mail in votes as well.

This election will go down in history as having the highest number of voter fraud cases ever submitted, and handled illegally on top of it.

If someone has to cheat to win, they are still a loser, even if they do win after the dust settles, they are still a loser.

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yogi
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

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Pardon my quoting what I'm sure you would consider an inappropriate source, but they say it much better than I can.
In an appearance on CNN’s “Outfront,” Tribe told host Erin Burnett that “there’s nothing there” in the slew of lawsuits that the Trump campaign has filed alleging election irregularities in a bid to overturn the result of the 2020 election.

“And if there were, then, among other things, McConnell wouldn’t be the majority leader because the ballots that they say were fraudulent without any evidence are the very ballots that have elected the Republicans to the Senate,” Tribe said, adding, “They can’t have it both ways. They can’t claim that they retook the Senate and that the whole election is a fraud.”
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/laurence ... e940412311

For nearly all the time Donald Trump has been president his mantra, and that of the entire Republican party, has been "Hillary lost. Deal with it."
Fair enough. The shoe is now on the other foot.

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Kellemora
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

Post by Kellemora »

Four the past four years, all I ever heard from the left was Not Our President.
And every good thing Trump wanted to do, the left blocked.

Tune it at 9pm tonight, I think it is on Fox? All the evidence seen by the supreme courts are going to be presented on TV.
or at least that is what I heard. I guess that would be 8pm your time.

I've probably seen close to 20 different video's taken on cell phones of the fraudulent dealings with this years ballots.

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yogi
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

Post by yogi »

I truly feel that I understand your concerns because I went through a similar shock, and the accompanying PTSD, four years ago. I'm a bit concerned about many of the comments you've posted here. They have a close resemblance to the playbook followed in Active Measures.

Your FOX News comments are somewhat amusing and likely a bit out of date. At this very moment the president is going through one of his infantile Twitter tantrums threatening to put FOX out of business with a competing network of his own. Also, he claims he will be running for president again in 2024. I guess he doesn't realize that means he is admitting to a loss in 2020. LOL

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Kellemora
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

Post by Kellemora »

Your side uses Mein Kempf doesn't it? hi hi.

If Biden does happen to get in, there won't be an America left by 2024.
By 2022 it will be totally socialist, and by 2024 a communistic dictatorship.
That's based on the democrats own published agenda!

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yogi
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

Post by yogi »

Give Trump's book a closer read. You will see that exact agenda spelled out. I'm not sure he favors communism, however, but he certainly is into dictatorship.

Can you give me the source material for the published democratic agenda to which you refer? I'd be interested in reading it for myself.

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Kellemora
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Re: Facebook Biometric Information Privacy Litigation

Post by Kellemora »

Hmm, Trump would make a great dictator! But our country will never go in that direction with him at the helm.

The democrats agenda has been posted in bits and pieces on Farcebook by their own in-office politicians.
I usually ignore what is posted about them by the republicans, because yes even they are biased, hi hi.

I do have many conservative places where I get my news, OANN, NewsMax, and I watch Judge Jenine, and Mark Kaye.
As far as news go, I like NewsMax, almost reminds me of the old Walter Kronkite days, hi hi.

Even if Biden does get in, most of the things he want's to implement will be blocked by the house and senate.

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