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Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 22 Jun 2020, 17:36
by yogi
I know I mentioned it before, but, HTML is not a programing language. It is not capable of performing any logical operations. Various scripts can be embedded to do such things, and javascrip was the preferred method way back when. I don't know what they prefer these days.

Another approach would be to code the website in PHP which is indeed a popular programing language. PHP has the capability of generating HTML on the fly so that the logic in PHP can be used to manipulate HTML. This is the approach taken with this website where a special version of PHP is used to generate and control the web pages, i.e., phpBB. Enough people were trying to make bulletin boards so that somebody went through the trouble of making it easier by combining PHP with HTML. Randall, however, seems to be the unfortunate curator of something unique written by a rogue student. LOL It's unfortunate because the student most likely was not disciplined in using conventional techniques, much like yourself. Things could be made to work, but not in the usual way. The only problem doing things like that is what Randall faces today. He doesn't know enough to work with the coding directly and nobody else has the time or inclination to try and reverse engineer the college student's brainchild.

I'd be more than happy to see Randall join us and help him replace what he has with what we are using. Most likely it's not possible to just migrate over to a new format, but a parallel site can be constructed using conventional phpBB. Thus two sites would be in operation; the old and the new. Eventually the old would be converted to archive (read-only) and the new would be run in a format that anybody could understand. That would be ideal, but maybe not possible. We would need Randall's input to decide the viability of such a plot.

It's not a good sign if Randall talked to several people and none of them could come up with a solution. If the way to fix the site truly is simple and a matter of deleting a log file, then I'm certain we can find a way to do that. If, on the other hand, some rewriting of the coding is necessary, I'd have to join the ranks of unhelpful people. Regardless, I'd be glad to correspond with Randall via the admin e-mail or right here in a forum that we can dedicate to his cause.

Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 23 Jun 2020, 15:26
by Kellemora
There were no standards when Tom started writing his program in php.
It was the first year it was introduced by the college, 1995 or 1996 if I recall.
Everyone was excited about this brand new language and he wanted to learn it.

Designing the websites he did was only done as a hobby, he never intended for one of them to take off like it did.
Before he graduated, he basically moved on to other things, but kept the website up and running.
Rarely adding anything to it, other than minor improvements.
He shut it down a couple of times due to troublemakers causing problems he didn't want to deal with.
But too many demanded he keep it open. He turned some of the stuff over to others and it really became a mess for awhile.
Then he agreed to let Randall take it over, who at the time knew zip about php, but Tom showed him what little was needed to keep it running. Tom was still out there when things went bad for several years, then he simply disappeared.
Randall has kept it up ever since.

Changing the topic slightly.
I used to be a cracker jack at simple Basic Programming, found ways to do things they thought were impossible.
But at the time, all of the tricks I figured out were based on the 6502 microprocessor, and wouldn't work on an 8080a.
One might say I was a bit of a hacker back then, because for every locked disk a company came out with for Apples, I came up with a way to unlock them, including the spiraled disks.
Someone from Beagle Bros. Software got wind of my achievements and offered me a job.
Probably a good thing I didn't take it though. First I would have had to move. And secondly they would have learned I didn't know diddly squat about programming. Everything I did was done by trying illogical things just to see what would happen. I picked up a lot doing that though, enough they took notice of me.
I started getting into conversions to make some of my work as EXE files.
Spent some big bucks to get the Microsoft Macro-Assembler and found most of my things could not be made into an EXE so it was wasted money. Once I moved away from the 6502 processor I was dead in the water on everything.
On the bright side. Nearly 40 of the small games I wrote for Basic ended up being published in books on Basic Games. I didn't make much money from them though, about 10 to 30 bucks each is all, and that was only after the books had sold.

Nothing I ever wrote it Basic could have ever been considered the standard or normal way of doing things.
Even though Basic was Linear as you say, with the number of peeks pokes calls and subroutines I used, it was quite convoluted, hi hi. And this is why most of my games could not be easily converted to run on an 8080a.

I truly and honestly wished I could have understood the various programming languages, then perhaps I could have made use of them. But for some reason, for me to understand them, was like hitting my head against a brick wall. No matter how hard I tried, or how many exercise lessons I did, they made no sense to me.

Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 23 Jun 2020, 17:22
by yogi
Programming would seem like a natural talent you should have. Your mind is built upon organization and logic, all of which is necessary to construct a program. Those two things are what made programing a fun thing for me as well. However, as I mentioned elsewhere in these forums, I had a problem learning the new languages, German in particular. The syntax and grammar wasn't a problem but learning critical details such as which article must be used with which nouns was. So it happened with programing languages. I attended a few programing classes sponsored by Motorola and didn't do well in any of them. I did learn how to compose dll's and exe's however. LOL The courses on C++ and TCL Tk were disasters (object oriented programming, not linear) mostly because I needed more time than the average programmer to absorb the details. What I did was not at the processor level, although I did take an assembly code class too, so that I didn't have to be concerned about what the processor can or cannot do. If the OS could run the language, then all I needed to do was come up with a program. The vast majority of my programming experience was in HP BASIC and machine specific languages designed to test electronics. Those things were task oriented. I had a job to do and it didn't matter to anybody how I did it. Just do it. If you too are boggled by the details critical to learning a language then I can understand why computer programming would be a challenge.

As far as Randal's dilemma goes, I am not sure what I can do to help. But, I'll be glad to talk about it any time.

Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 24 Jun 2020, 15:58
by Kellemora
I passed the website URL on to Novie to pass to Randal, but he hates going to any website.
I told Novie to tell him it us normally just me and Yogi on here, sometimes someone else my drop in, but that was about it.
I figured between the two of you, you might help each other understand where and what his problem is.
Novie can only text him on his cell phone, his voice number has not worked in years.
I think she said she does not text to a phone number but to a text code he has for text messages.

When I used to write my Basic programs, I sorta felt it was object oriented. Never thought of linear until you mentioned it. I would write a module to do something, and then it would get plugged into the main program where I needed it.

Back when I converted my html to xhtml/css I got a taste of having side programs do things in css which could be placed anywhere I wanted to place them, with very few restrictions.
Even this was confusing to me, because it means the entire CSS file would have to be read to find one particular thing. Seemed like a dumb way of doing it. But was it any different than using gosub/return in Basic?

Although I don't know what I'm doing, I know my own html pages use some JS to do certain things.
And I honestly did start looking at a little php myself, but for really basic things.
Once again I was faced with, my php code ran on the on-line server I tested it on, but would not run on my own computer.
Apparently it Needs a Server to work, like something else I was doing a few years ago.
I was afraid to change my start page from index.html to index.php to see if my host had it turned on or not.
Didn't have to do that on the server where I tested my page though. It worked just fine.
So OBVIOUSLY there is a LOT I don't know at all.

Most training programs leave out the basics you need to know before you even attempt doing the lessons.

Totally changing the topic here.
Had a chance to talk to a guy who handles search engine searches for company files.
He didn't get into serious details other than to say some files are indexed and some are not, especially those that are private or restricted.
He says every file name used on the company computers in folders that are searchable is saved in a search folder, with a link to a read only copy of the original file.
When you run a search for something, as you type a key word, it starts looking from the first letter you typed up to the last letter you typed, even before you hit the submit button.
And, depending on which level search you are doing, it may show in a drop down box below your entry box, file names as they match your search criteria.
This is the simple search feature. There is also a topical search feature that looks for certain key words in documents and indexes them also, where applicable.
Over the past year or so, he has made every text document, including those with images, available to be viewed as an html page, rather than opening a read only file in its native format.
I don't know what all that entails but he was quite proud of his accomplishment.

By the way, he said PHP is a dying breed, and will soon fall by the wayside.
If I want to learn anything at all I should look at Python.
Said he uses Python almost exclusively, along with Javascript, Ruby, and a few others he rattled off.

I have to laugh, he said at my age even attempting to learn today's languages is an exercise in frustration, hi hi.
He did say that after I said I don't even understand BASH at all. But do my own html5 webpages on a text editor.
I'm sure he thought a head slap was in order, but didn't do it in front of me, hi hi.

Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 24 Jun 2020, 16:51
by yogi
There is no doubt in my mind that this website is poison and feared more than the infamous virus floating around these days. I say that base on your multiple efforts to get people to participate in these forums, or even register for that matter. I have a few friends who registered here out of kindness, but they "don't know what to say" when asked why they are not participating. We existed before Facebook and most, if not all, our former members are there posting like there is no tomorrow. The most common excuse I hear/read is that they don't have anything worth discussing. There attention span obviously doesn't reach beyond 280 characters. That's why I have refocused things to chat and even have a blog. Still, no takers. So, if Randall never shows up because we are a website, or even worse a discussion forum, I would understand perfectly. However, if he is amenable to communicating by e-mail, the site admin account would be perfect for that. My intuition is that I can't be of much help to him anyway, so that not much would be lost.

Yes, PHP is on the decline and Python is popular. Websites are not going to change overnight and PHP is going to stick around for a long time to come. The search process you describe is pretty much what browsers do in general and Google specifically. They search as you type and by the time you hit the [ENTER] key all the relevant records have already been gathered. One of my long term tasks at Motorola was to document our departments procedures on the web. Those procedures were mostly word of mouth, a few memos here and a few e-mails there, with a few lame attempts by non-English speaking technicians to document what they did. It was an incredible feat to get it all put into HTML and organized. The sad part is that I had to leave the company before the project was completed entirely. The site was up and running and about 75% of the existing documentation was converted to something browser readable. Some docs were .pdf, some were links to documents on a server, some were copy and pasted into pre-formatted HTML. It was a mess but better than being scattered in a million different places. I hadn't figured out how to get it all into a single format before my time was up, but something like .pdf files on a server was looking good. Anyway, I think I know what you friend was doing.

Everybody's memory works a little bit different. Programming isn't something you can pick up by reading a book or going to a class. It's a way of life and a mindset that needs to be refined over time. I can only make an analogy with your your trade licenses. Just because you know how to use a hammer and a saw doesn't make you a carpenter. There are tricks of the trade to learn and a few you need to invent on your own. And, of course, you need to know which end of the screwdriver to use prior to assembling it all. LOL

Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 25 Jun 2020, 16:14
by Kellemora
One of the reasons I was pushed into Engineering, even though I did not have a degree to hold the position, was my ability to look at a set of blueprints and see what was missing, often without even thinking about it.

Building a house, although done in a fairly specific order, really is more like object oriented tasks.
Foundation, Sewer, Supplies, Shell and all of its individual components, including sub-floor, Truss and Roof, Doors, Windows, Exterior, HVAC Electrical and Plumbing Rough-in, insulation, Drywall, Trim, HVAC, Electrical and Plumbing finishing, etc.

Each of those items I listed above is technically an industry all their own. E.g. Electricians, Plumbers, HVAC folks, etc.

When I look at things that way, I can say I appear to be Object Oriented. Because I know and understand, and can do every single one of them myself. But everything must be done in a Linear Order else you will have a mess. You can't install the electric before you build the walls, etc.

When I took a look at a PHP tutorial, it started by showing how PHP can be added into a web page.
I hinted to that when I showed <?php (code); ?>
But looking at a Python tutorial, it starts with the basics, but not how to use them.
I can print Hello World and do a few other things. But they don't show how it fits into HTML.
Heck, I have enough trouble remembering HTML since I don't use it daily.
When I need to fix something on my web page, or add to it, I have to study it all over again.

You can laugh after this. Right before I had to convert my website from HTML to XHTML/css, I took a four night class up at the college. I had already been working with XHTML/css on my own, but could not grasp a couple of things. The class was only like 35 bucks and only for 1 hour each night. I figured I might learn something.
WRONG! What they were teaching was how to use a Program like Platinum, a WYSIWYG generator for XML to XHTML/css. It too used its own version of CSS, so all you needed to learn was the names for the CSS you needed.
They did not even get into what your header should read, like DOCTYPE. So it was wasted money.
I learned more, faster, and had my websites up and running, using NOTHING they taught there, and everything I gleaned on-line on my own.
Now I will admit, when I switched from XHTML to HTML5 I used Bootstrap CSS rather than writing my own.
Believe it or not, that was a big change for me, because it rubs against me the wrong way, if you know what I mean.

I think that is one reason I have a BLOCKAGE with BASH. BASH is just using pre-written codes via a name, such as DATE, Today, etc. as in the one you wrote for me.
I toyed with it a lot trying to understand why it did what it did, and actually improved on it a little. But then went back to the simple one you wrote for me.

I'm not lazy or dumb, I just flat out don't get it for some reason.
Plus the time lag between times I do get to work with even HTML, as I said, I have to relearn it again each time.
If you don't use something daily, it is easy to forget how to do it right.

Python uses blank spaces. BUT NOT ALL THE TIME! Which makes it confusing.
The tutorial will have print Hello World without the spaces one time, and .....print Hello World the next time.
So something must be used that causes the spaces to be needed or not needed.
{} is different than [] is different than (), But " " is exactly the same as ' ', unless you use " /" "/ ", hi hi.

But then again, using Python appears to be no harder than using Bootstrap and learning what pre-written commands do what.

Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 25 Jun 2020, 17:38
by yogi
I'm getting a better picture of why you don't "get" things like Bash, but a true understanding might require some therapy sessions. I'm not equipped to help you there. :lmao1:

But, true to form, none of the above is enough to stop me from trying to explain.

Putting aside for the moment our different views on HTML, we can agree on the end results being a viewable web page. Since HTML can't do everything people want from a website certain add-on's or enhancements can be embedded into the HTML markup. I'm sure you've seen some javascript, for example, right in line with the HTML. But, even javascript isn't enough in many instances so that you might have to write a stand alone program in, say, the Java programming language. That Java code is run when it is called by the HTML. The java program is typically stored on the same server as the web page and it's location is specified in the metadata in the header. The same kind of notation is used to call CSS documents also stored on the server. Or, any other program that HTML can call and respond to. That is how Flash works. The actual execution of the Flash program is done outside the HTML document but the flow control is the HTML.

So, HTML was perfect when it was first introduced, but people wanted more than bold and italic text. Browsers and HTML came up to the task by merging their individual merits.

Object Oriented Programming (OOP) is, let me quote here, " a programming paradigm based on the concept of 'objects', which can contain data, in the form of fields," And, while I'm quoting stuff, "Linear programming is used for obtaining the most optimal solution for a problem with given constraints. In linear programming, we formulate our real-life problem into a mathematical model. It involves an objective function, linear inequalities with subject to constraints."

In OOP we are dealing with a bunch of free standing objects that work together. The best way to understand what that means is to look at your computer screen. The window for your browser is an object. The desktop is another object. The panels and work spaces you might have configured are all objects. Everything you see, plus a lot you don't see, is objectified to produce the desktop monitor you use every day.

Lionear programming solves a problem mathematically. The "Date" function in Linux is a linear program. It's sole purpose in life is to tell you what day it is, and of course it can do that in one billion different ways. All those Bash binaries are linear programs designed to perform a specific task. That is why I told you my programming experience was task oriented and when it came to learning a new paradigm my mind was boggled.

That's the simple explanation and it gets quite complicated from there. You have mentioned several times that you are not familiar with all those binaries, nor their various parameters, and that is what creates a mental block. Even when you see the Bash command written out, all those extra format characters tell you nothing just by looking at them. Well, yeah. You are indeed supposed to know what they mean before you attempt to use them. That would be the equivalent of giving me several hundred thousand dollars to go build a house for you. Huh? Well, I know what a house is and that it takes a few things to build it, but ... but .. but

And that is the point at which I'm a little confused. Linear programming is just one way to solve a problem. You have been using your intellect and logic to solve problems all your life. That's how you acquired your business acumen. It's all left brain kind of stuff. There is some abstraction going on with programming that you don't see in the business world. I sense that you have issues with things like macro-economics too and for the same reasons. That could explain the brick wall in front of Bash. I can say, however, you have come a long way in spite of whatever lack of understanding you might endure. You can use the coding, but don't fully appreciate why. Does it really matter?

Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 26 Jun 2020, 15:52
by Kellemora
You make a lot of sense there Yogi!

When I wrote my website in XHTML/CSS, I had a small grasp of the XML language already, which helped some.
Things I wanted my website to do, such as the left banner with the floating image, I did not in HTML per se, but in the CSS files to cause it to happen. I had a few other things that could not be done without using JavaScript or one of the Java languages.
However, the CSS named BootStrap had what I wanted, without my actually learning JavaScript.
So I finally bit the bullet and realized, this helper is out there, and although I like to do things myself, it is getting not only above my head in many cases, but also I no longer have the time to learn to do it, only to forget how I did it when I got done. Plus now everything had to be Mobile Friendly.

I sorta understand Object Oriented program in a way. You have a package designed to do something when you need to do it. In the old days I would call this a sub-routine. IF a=b THEN gosub to xyz, RETURN.

To Me anyhow, this is what BootStrap is doing. My HTML code runs Linear, taking each step one at a time, until it gets to an instruction to GOSUB to BootStrap, then it will return from that and continue on with the HTML in order.

I can also visualize the way you explained the things that appear on my Monitor.
However, I saw it a different way. I see my clock at the top as an independent program running with its display area an assigned place on my Screen. It is there whether I'm doing something else or not. Doesn't matter what other program I'm running, it sits there and tells me the time. I also get the temperature and a lot of other things displayed in my panels which you already mentioned. But they are NOT in the user space of my browser, although some things could be made to appear over my browser window like a pop-up, or my drop down boxes can flow over the top of my browser window.

Back to HTML.
I was sorta surprised that you could put most things in the CSS file anywhere you wanted to.
Unless something needed defined before the code, then it had to be in a neat little package all together, which is logical.
But even then, not everything needs to be together or in a linear fashion, I could define something early on, and not use it until later. But most of the time, the definition must come before the action. A+B=C must be in the CSS file before you use C for something else later on.

BASH seems to be just a collection of thousands of small subroutines you can call to do something for you.
While at the same time, being a language in which you could write those subroutines in.
And although you can save a routine as a file, for the most part I see it used as command line work.

Python would be the better choice from what I have learned so far.

You do a remarkable job of explaining things. Unfortunately, I don't have xray vision eyes to see if they put rebars inside that brick wall, hi hi.

Thanks for being so patient with me Yogi!

Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 26 Jun 2020, 17:49
by yogi
Just to add a small bit of detail and expansion to my previous dissertation ...

HTML = Hypertext Markup Language
That term "Markup" is the main reason I know HTML isn't a programming language. The folks who invented HTML say so in the name of their product. So, you might wonder, what the heck is "Markup" anyway?
Stack Overflow wrote:A markup language is "a notation used to annotate a document's content to give information regarding the structure of the text or instructions for how it is to be displayed".

"Markdown" is the name of one such markup language, which is used by Stack Overflow. ... d-markdown
Clearly, Markup is notation in a document; nothing more. The document takes on a linear function. That is to say you start at the top and read left to right until you get to the bottom. Well, you can skip over things and go back to reread stuff, but the structure of the content in a document is very much linear.

All those HTML tags, be they part of the content text or in a separate CSS file, simply beautify the document. Or in some cases make it really ugly, but that's a different story. The old Word Star program, and the first versions of HTML, placed those formatting tags in line with the text. As the content became more complex those standard HTML tags were inadequate to meet the needs of the intended viewer. Thus, other things besides HTML tags are now possible to embed into a browser document, such as news feeds, music players and video displays. All those formatting instructions require some program files stored outside the browser. All the actual work that is required to display the formatted text, the video, the audio, the pop-up ads, and whatever else is on a web page, is done by the browser. The browser gets its instructions from HTML.

The Bootstrap Framework contradicts your policy regarding the use of software to generate a webpage. That's not a criticism. You discovered the benefits of letting other people do the work for you so that all you need to do is plug and play. The Bootstrap Framework is a FOSS program designed to develop web pages that are responsive and mobile friendly. The beauty of Bootstrap is that you can go back and read in plain text what the program is doing for any given HTML code you insert into your document. I suppose you could do that with Bash too if you had an de-assembler, but none of that would be plain text or even close to English. Thus, I see the attraction to Bootstrap. The only downside I know of is it's overhead. It's humongous, but it's very flexible and effective.

The objects created in OOP are a little more than a subroutine. Subroutines are executed in a linear fashion as they are called from the main program. Objects, such as windows inside a Linux OS desktop, are free standing and run in parallel. An object is simply reserved memory space so that all those individual items on your monitor have some reserved memory associated with them. One of the cool things about objects is that they have what is called inheritance; similar to CSS properties. They all inherit the same font, for example, which was specified in the main program. Of course, being stand alone objects, each one can have different fonts that override what has been inherited. My point here is that OOP is more akin to parallel processing. Linear programming is sequential.

And, i have a knack for explaining complicated things in terms that are understandable. That's pretty much what I did for a living at Motorola. I appreciate your gratitude, but I get some benefit from it all too. Doing the research, or even writing off the top of my head, forces me to organize my thoughts and reaffirm my own understanding of the discussion topic. It keeps my brain fresh. If I can help somebody, you, along the way, then it's all very rewarding for me too.

Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 27 Jun 2020, 15:15
by Kellemora
WOW - AMAZING - You definitely know your stuff Yogi - AND explain it with GREAT CLARITY.

I appreciate it immensely also.
I probably sound like the Toddler harping at his dad with the Question WHY to his every response, hi hi.

Bootstrap is plain enough you can go through and pick out what parts of it you used and add it to your own CSS so you don't have such a huge file a user has to download.
However, the way most web browsers work now, it stores Bootstrap the first time you encounter it, so when you encounter it again, you no longer have to wait for it to download again.
Same thing with JS and a few other things you encounter on websites.
This is why most folks don't bother to truncate Bootstrap to only what they need anymore.

Computers would still be in the stone age if it were not for their multi-tasking capabilities, running hundreds of programs all at the same time, or sitting idle in the background waiting to be called into service.
Ha, sorta like supercomputers only do one thing at a time, hi hi. Well, sorta!

I took a look at MySQL last night for about 20 minutes. The beginners database tutorial.
I actually created a small Table, with Rows, and Column Titles.
Added 5 peoples names, addresses, and phone numbers.
I know, simple. Then I forgot to use WHERE or something to delete a name and add a new name, and ended up deleting the entire Table, hi hi.
And here it is only 14 hours later and I don't remember the words or how to use them to repeat what I did.
I think I'm a lost cause Yogi, hi hi.

Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 27 Jun 2020, 16:25
by yogi
You would indeed be a lost cause if you just threw up your hands and give up. But, that's not what you typically do. I see you trying until you get it right or understand why you can't do it. That's not giving up, my friend.

SQL is probably the first thing you should understand before you progress on to programing in some language that uses SQL. Quite a few of them in fact rely on SQL to accomplish their tasks. Fortunately for the student SQL and it's attendant database are stand alone. You don't need much else, especially in Linux, to learn the basics. In some respects SQL is like HTML in that it is not programming anything but giving instructions to some other object, a database in this case. The output from the combination of SQL and the data can take a lifetime to master. There is so much that can be done that it's hard to believe all you are doing is querying a database. The Oracle database I dealt with was mind boggling. I bought a 700 page book on commands for that Oracle, and that's all it was. Only the commands with bare minimum explanations; like man pages in Linux. That was only for operating on the database. The SQL, which organizes the output, was a whole other set of instructions.

All that power is overwhelming, and frankly there isn't a human being on earth that knows all of it. You can do quite a bit with the simple SELECT FROM WHERE query. There are some basics you need to know in order to get it to work, such as how to address a table and it's columns, but after that it boils down to formatting. This web site uses SQLlite and they have a really nice front end for doing queries. I've done some manual queries in the past but I doubt that I can remember enough now to repeat that performance. The only other suggestion I'd offer is to try and get yourself a larger database. 5 records isn't enough to show you what is possible.

You do wonders for my ego, but I know better. I'm not as clever as I appear to be, and more importantly I'm smart enough to know that. LOL Everything I know I learned on the job. Well, OK, maybe there were a few in house classes I took but the bulk of my experience was due to the requirements of my job. You are absolutely correct to note that if you don't stay in touch with all this detailed technology, you will forget it. That's one more reason I relish talking to you about it.

Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 28 Jun 2020, 15:13
by Kellemora
With so many programs already written to do simple tasks like an address book, and even more complex tasks like a store inventory.
And if I did manage to write a program I could use to hold some of my data.
At my age and health condition, nobody else would be able to access my data if it was not in something super plain they could read on a Windows machine.

Even so, I do like to do some things myself, especially learning how things are done, even when it is way over my head.
I also like thinking outside the box too.
In a way, I think that is what is intriguing to me about programming.
Unfortunately, all the tutorials show how to use a particular program, and give lessons.
But I've yet to find any that teach how it all comes together.
Sure, and html page can call a php or javascript function, which in turn can call a SQL database, etc.
Or php can be used to write the entire website, while using Python for some of the fancy stuff.

What's missing for me is Putting It All Together! And the different ways it all can go together, hi hi.

If only I could visualize the Tree and all of its possible branches and twigs, will it ever start to make sense to me.

Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 28 Jun 2020, 15:51
by yogi
I think you might be a victim of not being able to see the forest through all those trees. LOL It amounts to that old psychological paradigm which classifies people into two categories: left brain and right brain. The lefties are practical application experts while the righties are the theoreticians. In some ways that explains why we get along. I can simplify the details by putting them into an all encompassing picture that is easy for you to understand. When the model becomes vague, you give me the details. That's great for interpersonal relationships, but how do you get your lifetime's collection of data to the masses? THAT involves both left and right side of the brain.

The masses would be able to view everything you have to say by using their computers and mobile devices. While that technology is changing at the speed of the Internet, your legacy can live there until computers and data become obsolete. Trust me when I say that is quite a distance out into the future. LOL The data you want to pass on is already in existence. You've described some of it here in these forums, and I know there are massive quantities you have not touched on yet. Well, you can direct your descendants and other interested parties to these forums to read about it just as I have done. Of course neither I nor these forums are going to exist too far into the future, but it's the idea of how to preserve what you know and have to say that is important. Document it all so that it is browser readable and can be viewed over the public network. There are other ways, but that idea is probably going to be the most durable and widely available method.

Sounds simple, eh? Yes, that's what I'm good at; making difficult things sound simple. You already know some of the complexities involved in creating a web site and thus know it's not as simple as the above paragraph depicts it. And, yes, your time is limited. Given all those conditions, it might be time to reconsider your strategy. I know what you think of things like Word Press, but, a blog of some sort would be the ideal way for you to get your message documented in a more or less permanent form. You can, but you do not need to, write the code that generates that blog. I have a Blog forum here. That's all you need to do. Get yourself a copy of phpBB and upload it to your hosting service. Then make your own Gary's Legacy website. A lot more can be done than what we are doing here, but all the heavy work is already in existence. You just would need to figure out how to configure phpBB to suit your needs and the rest would be easy as pie.

It's just a though. I am contemplating such an adventure myself. Then again, I don't have as much material for my legacy website as you do for yours. :mrgreen:

Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 29 Jun 2020, 16:00
by Kellemora
As far as my family genealogy, which I've had on several different genealogy programs over the years, none of which were compatible with each other.
I've now put everything up on Ancestry dot com.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people on Ancestry that make fake genealogies, and some just want to see how many people they can add, whether they match or not, so you get a lot of bad data out there.
But I figured, by getting my massive file up there, which for the most part is accurate as can be, except for a few lines given to me by new family members and added in. At least I know it is out there for those who wish to follow it.
I doubt my son will be interested in taking over, and our families are now too widespread for any one person to really care about distant relatives.
But at least I know it is on-line and will probably always be there, as long as Ancestry is around anyhow.

I took a look at the Way Back Machine to see if it had any of the data from my original web sites I had to take down to make space. Looks like they have nothing about any early website I ever had, not even the radio club website area on my website for them. Oh well, I was hoping to recover some of the data I lost from that era.

I know they say everything you ever put on the Internet is out there somewhere.
Probably is, but finding it might be impossible at this time, hi hi.

The main things I want my son to have are my diaries and the family photo albums I have all organized and sorted. Not that he would know most of the people on there, many were my parents and grandparents friends and acquaintances. But photo's of those people are not in my Family File used for anyone in my Genealogy Files.

Wish I had more time!
I have a doctors appointment again tomorrow!

Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 29 Jun 2020, 16:50
by yogi
Apparently you are moving in the right direction. would seem like an appropriate medium for your family tree. It's a shame they are polluted as a source of information but you have done your part and that's all your family would be interested in anyway. Your diaries and photos would not easily lend themselves to living on the web, but it could be done. I think the originals would be more valuable but saving the content to what is effectively The Cloud is likely to last a lot longer.

That theory about nothing really disappearing from the Internet is flawed. A few of my earliest attempts at being a webmaster are totally undocumented these days. The sites were small and of no consequence, plus there is no continuity to the present in any of them. That kind of stuff drops out of archives pretty quickly. It's possible the information that composed the content is somewhere, and there are search engines you can purchase to find hidden libraries. A lot of the news services use that kind of thing to do background checks for investigative reporting. Unless you are into forensics I doubt it would be worth digging up ancient web pages.

Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 30 Jun 2020, 13:57
by Kellemora
It was just a shame we were so limited to the amount of space we could use for our web pages way back when.
Every time I wanted to put something new up, I had to take down something old to make space for it.
I did save everything to put back up later. But the Ransomware attack did wipe out those folders, and the backup of them.

I don't think I would want my diary up in a cloud anywhere, or available to anyone.
I did start to write an autobiography, but always got waylaid or added things I didn't think should be in it.
Never got very far along with it either.

Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 30 Jun 2020, 16:54
by yogi
The Internet truly isn't what it used to be, and I can't imagine what it will be 20 years from now if it keeps going the way it is. No matter what you make today, it's likely not to fit in with future formats, assuming there is an Internet at all.

I hear you about not making personal information such as a diary public. But then, why make a diary in the first place if nobody is to see it? I solved that problem by not keeping track of my life on paper. I thought of ways I might do it if I changed my mind, but ... nahhh. Us curmudgeons are pretty secretive.

Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 01 Jul 2020, 16:23
by Kellemora
I used to keep several diaries. Most of them were work and or job related.
I also kept two personal diaries, one was just my daily activities when something special happened. The other is what you would consider a real diary, about me personally, and what went on in my private life. Sometimes a little colorful if you catch my drift, hi hi. Some areas a little to revealing.

I had one diary that was only related to my daily expenses at work. The normal entry about 5 or 6 times a day was Coke Work, Coke Work, Lunch at the Paul Brown building, Coke Work, Snicker bar from machine, Coke Work, with the money amount I spent on each, hi hi.
But then I had to keep a diary at many places I worked as to what time I started on a job for a particular client and what time I stopped on that client and started on another. This applied to drafting too. All of our drawings had serial numbers so I had to write that down and the time I worked on each drawing.
This carried over to my own businesses where I kept all of my work and project data for customers.
Plus I would make notes about myself in the back to copy to my personal diary.

After the floods and we tried to recompile all of my diaries before they were unreadable. Most were anyhow, I ended up with one huge diary of mostly uninteresting stuff, which I have slowly weeded a lot out when I rebuilt it, and then later started on an autobiography.

Although not exactly a diary, I really enjoyed getting my hands on some of the daily routine notes of my ancestors. Sometimes it was related to their farming, sometimes livestock, sometimes just plain old daily life.
I've put a lot of this stuff together as a part of my genealogy notes, and have been slowly adding in a few things about my life I think my son might be interested in long after I'm gone, but probably not much now though.

I remember some things about my very early childhood, and forgot many others.
My son did not remember our Chimp Magoo, which I thought was really strange considering how long we had him.
But then I remembered, he was only two when we moved into the big house and I had Magoo there, even had some pictures of him and Magoo playing with his blocks. But then Magoo went to stay with my sister after my daughter was born. Since the flood which was about ten years later in a different house, almost all of our pictures were lost.

I figure without the diary, most folks would never believe all of the things I have done over the years. All the major projects I had my hands in on. At the time many of them took place, it was just all in a days work on my job, and many times I had no idea what or where what I was drawing would be used for. It was more of an after-the-fact event where, for example, my drawings were the ones accepted for the project and they ask me to scribe the templates. That is when I learned the item I drew was the Drop Chute Door for the Gemini space capsule. It was only afterward that it became a big deal to me, mostly a Wow factor after the space capsule went into space, because I had a minor part in it. Very minor in fact, but still. You know what I mean!

Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 01 Jul 2020, 17:19
by yogi
There was a time when I'd sit around and wonder where I'd be if I had followed one of my alternate education plans. After dropping out of the Liberal Arts college at the U of I, I had considered going after a degree in Business Administration. My hobby of electronics side tracked that plan and got me a job at Motorola instead. That electronics job, without a degree, guaranteed I would never make it big in the business world. The idea was not only to become familiar with the complexities of running a large corporation but also to see how I could make a difference in the life of masses of people. You know, like Bill Gates' invention has affected just about every human being on earth. I never thought I'd come close to that, but I had no chance at all in the world of electronics technicians.

The reason I went to college in the first place was to try and become a psychologist. This notion had the same impetus as the business administration did, but the contributions I could make to other people's quality of life would be more personal and on an individual basis. Just living a normal life regardless of what you do influences the people around you, but that's all random. I was interested in seeing the results of my efforts. Well, none of that happened. However, I can think of a few occasions where my personal counseling and friendship did change the course of an individual's life. Those times, and a few less consequential efforts, would have made great entries in a personal diary. It simply didn't seem worth documenting at the time.

Re: Personal Safety From Google

Posted: 02 Jul 2020, 16:41
by Kellemora
I saved a heck of a lot of money by taking the classes I needed as an auditor.
But I got no grades and even after about 18 years of taking classes and attending seminars, some of those were to maintain my horticultural licenses, but I never earned a degree in anything.
It didn't really matter since I figured I would be in our family business until I croaked.
I was just lucky I did take all the strange classes not associated with horticulture directly, but with structures, such as greenhouses and small stand-alone retail stores.
I did get my plumbing, electrical, and general contractors licenses over the years, which helped considerable when I learned they had decided to shut down our florist. It was actually a wise move considering all that was going on in our city at the time.

I do wish the crooks would not have robbed me blind of my Wonder Plant business. It was growing in leaps and bounds, and we had several franchise stores open, with no problems of keeping them all supplied.
One reason our sales took off like they did, was our plants were priced at less than half of the normal price for the same plant, and it included our planting system, PLUS something nobody else did. We guaranteed our plants. If you manage to kill it, bring it back and we'll give you a new one of the same type for free. Naturally there were some stipulations in the guarantee, like you had to water at least once a month and have it located in the light level required for that plant. It had a built in light level and nutrient level meter. We did get a couple of plants back and replaced them on the spot for them that could not have survived the conditions they were put through. A couple were frozen and one was burned up in a hot car for a whole day in the middle of summer. One of our first customers still had their plant something like 25 oar 30 years later, which truly was amazing, even to me, hi hi. Most larger growing plants will outgrow the system over time. But we had directions for how to handle that too!
Oh Well, water over the dam as they say.
Had the crooks not ruined the business, there is a possibility it would have become a national success.
Everyone loves virtually care-free plants that are real and require little maintenance.