Avatar Issues

The is the core forum of BFC. It's all about informal and random talk on any topic.
Forum rules
Post a new topic to begin a chat.
Any topic is acceptable, and topic drift is permissible.
User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6089
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by yogi »

You bring back old memories I forgot that I had. LOL
I used Fusion way back when I was first learning about HTML; it was probably HTML3 in those days. The program was free because I bought something else for a high price. All I recall is that I installed it and tried to use it but went back to manual coding because it was easier. When it comes to creating web pages, the development cycle is like most other software development attempts. There are multiple ways to accomplish the same objective. As you noted, some approaches to development are not compatible with each other; it boils down to reserved words and what they do. In the end it's all HTML.

Oddly enough I have used Semantic HTML5 and didn't realize it had a name. I picked it up when I started reading about HTML5 many moons ago. The containers make a lot more sense than plain DIV's, but you got to know the syntax and whatever special rules apply. In that sense it's no different than Bootstrap or Fusion.

I think you are right about the use of "container" in HTML, although I've not looked into it for quite a while. It's a convenient descriptive word found in many scripts typically for global formatting. But, it also is a general term for specific functions. You do need to know which the author is talking about.


Over the last twenty years we probably had half a dozen different insurance companies cover our medical expenses. Medicare actually made things simpler in that we no longer have to file claims. The service provided does the claims and will notify our supplemental insurance along with the Medicare people. The drug stores seem to have improved handling things too. I no longer need a piece of paper to take to the drug store. The service provided sends a request to my preferred pharmacy and everything including renewals are taken care of by them. I'm pretty much out of the loop except when it comes to co-pays for the drugs. LOL

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 3744
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by Kellemora »

Like you said, I think "container" is a keyword, and here is why.
I went back and changed the inner container name to "liner" and put the /DIV back at the end where I had to remove one.
And guess what, it now checks perfectly on the W3C checker.
This tells me I never had an Extra /DIV, but they ignored two "container(s)" in a row.
And by ignoring the second one, of course they showed an extra /DIV I had to remove.

My older websites that used to check just fine with no errors no warning, are now showing warnings.
I know what it is: Using <style type="text/css"> - You no longer need to use the type="text/css">
Just use the word <style> with nothing else included with it.

So I have umpteen pages to have to go through on my other two websites to get them back to no errors or warnings.

I've not had to deal with paper scripts now in eons. The doc sends the script to my pharmacy, and then when it runs out and needs renewed, the pharmacy notifies the doctor for an updated script.
And now the pharmacy is getting all of my scripts lined back up again, after they got separated as far as pick-up dates go.
They do this by shorting an earlier renewal on a script temporarily so I get the full-script along with all the rest the next time. Once that was done, I get them all on the same day now, once every three months.

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6089
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by yogi »

I'm taking a hand full of pills and, of course, they all have their own script from the doctor. None of the renewals are synchronized and I don't care. The pharmacy can refill them all they want at any time they want, but I"m not going there to pick them up unless it fits my schedule. LOL I happen to have a 90 day backup supply of everything but the really critical anticoagulant I must take. Thus no room to spare with that one. It's also the drug that puts me in the donut hole and I'm careful about how many renewals I get in any given year. The other factor in my renewals is that the insurance people will only pay for 90 day supplies. That is the way it has been, but starting 2020 we have a new insurance so that I'll see what happens there. The bottom line is that it doesn't matter to me when I get the renewals. I just want to have them when I need them.


I think you are on the right track with containers. All I can add is that the word "container" is reserved in Bootstrap only. It's not a W3C standard. It's unfortunate that Bootstrap chose that particular word because the same word, container, in HTML5 simply refers to a generic <div> that contains a lot of declarations and other goodies. It's nice to have W3C's blessings, but it's not mandatory. Their syntax checker may or may not be applicable to your given web pages.

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 3744
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by Kellemora »

Well, as of 10pm last night, all of my web pages now check perfect, no errors, no warnings.
I went through them all and changed the text/css to just <style>
Except on older pages where it is located in the Head, W3C don't mind it there, hi hi.

I think you are right about Container, because it works right on my old website pages that way, using my Own CSS files.
I really do need to redo all those pages again some day too. I have over a dozen CSS files, hi hi.

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6089
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by yogi »

There are pros and cons for keeping a single style sheet verses using multiple sheets for various purposes. Don't think I ever used more than three because it gets confusing after a while trying to troubleshoot and not recalling where a certain style was stored. LOL Most of the time a single style sheet can serve the purpose because comments can be embedded to give order and rationale to a heavily styled sheet.

type="text/css" is a MIME type and doesn't refer to anything in a style sheet. Using it was pretty much deprecated when browsers started not to care what MIME you were using.

SOURCE: https://www.codecademy.com/forum_questi ... 0200003391

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 3744
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by Kellemora »

Hmm.
There is a lot of information in the MIME tags that the browsers do look for.
That is if you are using the word MIME to mean META data.
All of that data in the <head> area is important to browsers.

As the article says, using a stylesheet LINK is a whole lot different than making <style type="text/css">
Now all you use is <style>.

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6089
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by yogi »

I've never seen "type="text/css" anywhere but in the link pointing to the location of the CSS style sheet. As such, it's a parameter related to the link and not a style declaration. Then again, you and I don't write code the same way. I'm guessing you know something I don't know. :mrgreen:

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 3744
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by Kellemora »

I've ALWAYS had this in my <head> area
<link rel="stylesheet" href="./style/bootstrap.min.css">

But with using Bootstrap, and needing to make changes to the CSS for your particular page set-up
I had to put <style type="text/css"> when I first built those new pages, so it knew the css was a plain text and not some other code also used for style. I don't remember what they were anymore, but there was alternatives to using TEXT.
But apparently that changed somewhere along the line and <style> means it is always TEXT.

Now you can use a <span> to change it for a section or word also.

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6089
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by yogi »

If I ever make another web page, and Google wants me to, I'll have to relearn most of what I forgot years ago. I had thoughts about changing the portal page for this website, which would make Google more interested in it. But Google isn't going to register as a member and start posting so, why bother? On occasion I will get email from a stranger who read one of our topics and wants me to update the link therein. Apparently that is how most people find us rather than landing on the home page. It's just one more reason why I'm ignoring Google.

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 3744
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by Kellemora »

If I do a google search I see a few of the posts from here in the listing. Hmm, maybe because I'm the one who was doing the searching. I'll try a search incognito and see if the same things show up.

It appears google search results are usually http instead of https, and my host doesn't use a 301 redirect because google will flag it with a big warning saying this page is being redirected do you want to continue.

I even installed the google code to stop that and show my page as https and it still brings it up as Not Secure, unless I physically type in https after the search in the url ahead of my website name.
My next job is to go through all of my images and use more descriptive names. They are already descriptive but not in the google search way descriptive, hi hi.

A couple of years ago, there was this group of around 100 to 150 folks who would share an url for you to visit.
Their only goal was to get each of their websites to the top of google searches. I don't think it works that way anymore. But at one time, the more hits a website got, the higher it got ranked. I think now it has to do with the number of keyword hits it gets from random searches they pick from. Whatever, they will change it again every few weeks, hi hi.

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6089
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by yogi »

The Google search algorithm is in a state of flux and biased. Way back when Google and Browsers were first being deployed to the wilds it was all pretty straight forward. Keywords were very important back then, but they also proved to be less than useful. They are often too general. Thus Google changed it's strategy and adjusted the algorithm to be more "relevant" to the inquirer. That meant, of course, that they had to know a few things about the inquirer in order to make the search results relevant. That's when the bias in the search results really ramped up.

A lot of people out there are in the SEO (search engine optimization) business and claim they know how Google works. That's a laugh because not even Google knows how their Frankenstein works. They do have a good idea but it takes a lot of learning time and test results to see if any tweak they made has any effect. The consensus seems to be that the link-backs give you the biggest boost. The problem is that if 150 folks go around linking back to your site all the time, Google catches on. Once they see you are manipulating the search results, you suddenly lose rank. LOL

Keywords are important, but I've received a few e-mails over the years from people seeking out information about their brain disorders. That happens due to the keyword element in our name. We actually knew about that when my buddy and I set up the site and were hoping for an association with bra-information. Never got any queries about bras. :lol:

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 3744
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by Kellemora »

Permanent links to my old websites when I was on the galilei servers always kept me at the top.
But then after I moved to comcast, it was almost impossible to find me using any search engine.
It took years before some of my stuff was back in the search engines.
A lot has come fairly quickly since I'm on a new Host.
But Google and other Search engines are slow to update.
All of my websites and all internal links to my pages are now all https.
But Google still gives the NOT SECURE when one uses Google to get to them.
I even got the special Google html file added to my opening Host folder where the index.html page is located, my root folder, not the systems, and it seems Google ignores their own fix for the problem.
And if the Host uses a 301 redirect then Google blocks me with a Warning that my page is being redirected, which is worse.
Would you believe Google is still showing some of my websites as being on the BBS service.
I haven't been on there now in probably 30 years, hi hi. I'm using the same name I've always used for my personal website StoneBroke Manor too. So I guess they do not update their own files!

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6089
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by yogi »

The web crawlers update their index in real time. That's why they crawl in the first place. However, Google and probably all the rest has archives. They never drop anything out of their database, and they archive pages that seem inactive or have disappeared. I'm guessing that your pages have changed enough so that they no longer look like what's in the archive, thus you may have multiple references to the same web page. Which one shows in a given query depends on what is relevant to the person doing the searching.

I didn't think a web hosting service would have any bearing on the rank Google assigns to a given page. The point of the search is the content and not from where it originates. There will be a lag in updating because there are thousands and thousands of DNS servers all over the world storing pointers to your web site. It's not until those DNS servers get updated that a viewer will be directed to the current version of the page. Sometimes it seems as if Google does not get the web page from the hosting service but from it's own databanks. This would be a humongus task, but I can see how it would speed things up not having to wait for a slow host so respond. It's all black magic anyway. :lol:

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 3744
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by Kellemora »

Well, I've added a Sitemap to my main website and both sub-domains, and registered them with Google. That was a task in and of itself, hi hi.
Previously I got a Verification Code and added it. I was later told to add it to a Meta file in the Head area, which I did, but it was unclear how much of the string they wanted. I've tried the whole string they provided and that didn't work, took off the front part of it, based on what I saw on other websites, that didn't work. Used just the number, that didn't work.
I think the problem is, Google does not recognize my certificate, although both companies are listed in their list of companies. Including the combined name of my actual certificate carrier, it too was in their list.

My next project is to rename each image. Although they are already descriptive, I have extra information in the file names that probably should come out now. I got into the habit of including in the picture name what html folder it went with, since they are all in the gfx file. I've since added a sub-folder to the gfx file for images I plan on removing after I get rid of the item the picture was for. Maybe I could make another folder in gfx and just move them to it and keep the older pages up.
Yeah, I know, I got off on the wrong foot 30 years ago with how I set up my website and have only duplicated that same headache ever since, hi hi. Well, it WAS Logical at the time I did it! Remember it was coming off the BBS System, which needed the hierarchy to work, and we were limited to one home page with links to index pages, they called link-step-pages, and then the final html page folder. On the BBS you could not go from the home page to more than ten other pages, which is why we used index pages. This way we could go from home to 10 index pages, and each index page could go to ten or more html pages. We couldn't add more index pages as sub-index pages either. Just the way their system worked is all.

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6089
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by yogi »

You get into areas of websites that I never looked into. What does registering with Google do for you, and exactly what is it you are registering anyway? Likewise I don't get the point of putting information into an image file name. The "alt" tag in HTML is for that kind of descriptive content. I suppose it is a good idea to keep up with the current trends in web page design, but that changes almost every year. You do indeed want to look things over at least every five years. It's got to be a task and a half to update web sites of the proportions you create. Good luck there.

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 3744
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by Kellemora »

There's a whole lot to SEO (Search Engine Optimization) that I don't know anything at all about.
And sometimes, when I think I'm doing the right thing, I end up doing just the opposite, sorta.

On Registering: This is letting Google Search know that your website is HTTPS not HTTP.
You get a Verification Code that you put in the HEAD of your main website page in the META file area.
Their instructions leave much to be desired on exactly what part of the string they send you to put there.
Very convoluted to say the least. They send you an html file to open and copy the contents of to your Meta data.
Here is what they sent me: google4133ec922349df23.html, with instruction to open the file and paste the contents to my Meta data. When I open the file I get this: google-site-verification: google4133ec922349df23.html
Which is NOT AT ALL what you put in the Meta file. It didn't work.
Another set of directions said to put it in my root directory the same place where my index.html file is located.
Did that with no success either.
Finally, someone else gave and example of how it should appear:
<meta name="google-site-verification" content="google4133ec922349df23">
Then someone else said that is not right, leave off the word google.
I did that on my oldest website and suddenly it started working, but not the others.

OK now on to Images:
I thought I was doing the right thing by spelling out everything in the carousel area. E.g.
<div class="item">
<img src="../gfx/sales/htmlpgs-caseopen-1911e.jpg" class="img-responsive" style="margin: auto;" alt="Selmer Case Open">
<div class="carousel-caption">
<h3>Instrument Case Open</h3>
<p>Selmer U.S. Padless Alto Saxophone</p>
</div>
</div>
You'll see I do have the Alt tag more descriptive than the actual image file itself.
But apparently this is not good enough.
Google Images searches your GFX file for images for their Google Images page.
They do search sub-directories in the GFX file so I'm OK there.
However, my actual file name is not descriptive enough of the actual image for them to use it.
Using: htmlpgs-caseopen-1911e.jpg, is meaningful to me. It tells me where the link to it is located, and the number keeps all images for that offering visible to me as well.
But if I want Google Images to pick up the photo for their Images page, I'll have to reword it to something like.
Selmer-Saxophone-Case-Open.jpg or they will never pick it up, unless the original photo gets a lot of hits.

The next big SEO thing is the SITEMAP.
Although you already have: <meta name="robots" content="index,follow" />
The Web Crawlers are LAZY and will only spend a short time on your website.
If they don't find enough useful stuff in the first few seconds they leave.
This is where the Sitemap comes into play. You can assign PRIORITIES to certain pages you want seen, and not place pages that are useless in the sitemap at all. This way the Web Crawler will hit the best pages first and index them, going down the list of priorities. When they reach the end of the Sitemap list, they may still have time to look at things not on the list to see if they want it or not.

I don't do it, but in the Sitemap, you can also tell the Web Crawler how often to come back, hourly, daily, weekly, monthly, yearly, etc. However, if you abuse the feature, they will remember this and skip you entirely sometimes for a whole year. They EXPECT to find something changed on the page when they come back using this feature. So, since most of my pages are static and rarely change, I don't use the feature at all, since it can do more harm than good. I DO USE the LastMod feature because it is important to the Web Crawlers. Saves them time so they can scour other pages they see not in the list.
Here is an example of a couple of lines in my Sitemap. Simple little thing!
<url>
<loc>https://classichauslimited.com/</loc>
<lastmod>2019-12-14T22:49:22+00:00</lastmod>
<priority>1.00</priority>
</url>
<url>
<loc>https://classichauslimited.com/htmlpgs/ ... .html</loc>
<lastmod>2019-12-12T04:32:35+00:00</lastmod>
<priority>0.64</priority>
</url>
<url>
<loc>https://classichauslimited.com/htmlpgs/ ... .html</loc>
<lastmod>2019-12-12T04:32:33+00:00</lastmod>
<priority>0.80</priority>
</url>

Make note of the PRIORITY. You always want to use 1.00 for the location of your Index.html
I use 0.80 for main pages of interest, and 0.64 for pages that although of interest have a link to the ones I mark 0.80.
I have a few pages I've marked 0.10 instead of removing them from the list, because I do want them available, but not dominant. Low ranking page on Google Search.

This is only the tip of the iceberg as far as SEO tricks go, but for me it is plenty.
But someone who relies on the pages for business will want to use more of the tricks designed for businesses.

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6089
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by yogi »

That's all very educational and I must thank you for explaining it. Just about all of what you are doing is to promote your business interests and way more than a casual webmaster like myself would need to do. I don't pay much attention to SEO these days because this site is on it's last leg. Even if we had a ton of viewers, none would participate. So There is no point in naming forums correctly and spelling out image information. I do get e-mail from time to time regarding articles posted in the distant past. Nothing from BFChat so far, but several from the archives. It's interesting because i don't do anything to promote what the people are asking about. Yet Google somehow pointed them in our direction.

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 3744
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by Kellemora »

I understand: Every once in a while, I will see a Google Search that takes me all the way back to when I was on the Vulcan server, which was before the Galilei server.
It's a shame Google doesn't have a way for someone to go in and add the new link to the current website rather than showing an old grossly outdated link. And I wonder sometimes how it ended up near the top or on the first page of their hit list, especially since it has been on every server I've had my websites on since then.

I forget what I was looking for a few days ago, and up popped the page I was looking for but on the old BBS right after they went to having Internet hosting.
I really do wish I could bring up some of the old pages though. Due to space I had to take off old documents before I could put up new ones. And although I thought I kept all of them, I think the Ransomware attack got to them and they are now all gone. Back then we only had so much space we could use, but now, with unlimited space, I could have put them all back up again. I've checked every old drive I own and they are not there, pshaw.

Not on my own websites, but on sites where I may have posted something eons ago. Every so often I will see one of my comments appear on the search engine while I was searching for something along those same lines, but not exactly.
Although the search showed it, many times the websites don't even exist anymore, so the link is dead.

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6089
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by yogi »

One of the quirks with Google search is that it does exactly what you describe; it shows you things you posted personally instead of information related to the search topic. Browsers have started to do that as well but they put that kind of information on a separate "home" page which you can customize to your own liking. It's starting to look like Google has fallen into the same trap that Facebook invented. Google is driven by what they can monetize by using your private information. That's fine up to a point. All companies deserve to make a profit. But, also like Facebook, Google seems to be slowly drifting away from its original intent.

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 3744
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Avatar Issues

Post by Kellemora »

One of the reasons I like Duck Duck Go and a couple of others.
With Google, if you want accurate results when looking for something specific, the trick is to put it in quotes.

Post Reply