I know it was you, Gary, who mentioned Black Diamond melons quite a while back in these forums. I believe you were lamenting how such a great melon went out of style and/or production. Since then I've come across a comment or two regarding these melons and touting them to be the standard of perfection. So, naturally, I've been keeping my eyes peeled in search of Black Diamond Melons.
Last week I saw a sign at a local farmers produce stand advertising Black Diamond melons. I was in the wrong lane of traffic to respond quick enough and could not stop to examine what they offered. The next day the sign and melons were gone. I thought to myself these must be some fantastic melons to be out of stock over night. A few days later I happen to be at Dierbergs. Low and behold, they had a supply of Black Diamond melons mixed in with the rest of the lot. I figured such a fabled melon would be displayed on a pedestal, but no. They were just another melon as far as the produce manager was concerned.
These Black Diamonds were small and round; apparently they were supposed to be of the seedless variety. They had seeds nonetheless, but very small and few in numbers. The rind was thin and way easier to cut through than is most melon rind. Beautiful pink flesh greeted my eyes when sliced in half, but all was not perfect. There was a streak of white flesh too; small and near the rind so that it didn't seem to indicate an unripe melon. My first sampling of center cut melon cubes was unimpressive. Perhaps I expected too much from such an icon of the fruit family. It was chilled which generally enhances the flavor, and somewhat sweet. To be honest I've had better in the middle of winter. Without a doubt it was good melon fruit, but not the outstanding kind that I anticipated.
Half the melon went into the meat locker of the fridge. The other half was cubed and set on the counter top for consumption as snack food during the day. I also cut chunks for a small container I intended to eat at breakfast for a day or two. This morning when I tasted the cubed Black Diamond from yesterday's cutting, I was pleasantly surprised. The quality seemed to have improved significantly; sweet and juicy supreme. I presume, like many foods, aging improves it. Black Diamond is sweet and delectable, and I would have to say a step above the average seedless melon. Upon doing some research I discovered that seedless Black Melon isn't what everybody was raving about in the 50's. Plus those Black Diamonds were the traditional oval shaped and not the round basketball that I had. Be that all as it may, I would buy these melons again. They are great tasting for summer fruit, but I would like to try the classic version before I label them the best ever.
Black Diamond Melon
Forum rules
Post a new topic to begin a chat.
Any topic is acceptable, and topic drift is permissible.
Post a new topic to begin a chat.
Any topic is acceptable, and topic drift is permissible.
Re: Black Diamond Melon
Buyer Beware!
There are a lot of melons out there on the market calling themselves Black Diamond Melons.
A true Black Diamond is a BLACK OVAL almost round watermelon that takes 120 days to grow.
A lot of 90 day melons have appeared in recent markets claiming to be Black Diamond Melons.
They can usually sell these as seedless because the seeds have not yet had time to form, and they were artificially ripened, like 90% of the melons out there now.
If they are sold between 3 and 10 dollars, they cannot be a true Black Diamond.
Either that or they were picked green and artificially ripened.
Two types of seedless watermelons are out there.
Those picked green and artificially ripened, and those which are rendered sterile by cross pollinating.
Once cross pollinated to get the seeds to produce a sterile watermelon, in order for the seedless to get pollinated, they have to be grown alongside seeded varieties. The fruit is more dense and has less taste than a seeded watermelon.
If the texture of a seedless watermelon resembles plastic from a replicator it was probably green picked.
And therein is the problem. A watermelon will not naturally ripen further after it is picked, so artificial means of ripening are employed.
Farmers would love it if they could pick the melons green. But without the necessary means to ripen them, they simply cannot do that.
Oh, there are also Texas Black Diamond Melons, which are not the original Black Diamonds either.
I would gladly pay 20 bucks for a real Black Diamond, because they are worth it, both in flavor and texture.
There are a lot of melons out there on the market calling themselves Black Diamond Melons.
A true Black Diamond is a BLACK OVAL almost round watermelon that takes 120 days to grow.
A lot of 90 day melons have appeared in recent markets claiming to be Black Diamond Melons.
They can usually sell these as seedless because the seeds have not yet had time to form, and they were artificially ripened, like 90% of the melons out there now.
If they are sold between 3 and 10 dollars, they cannot be a true Black Diamond.
Either that or they were picked green and artificially ripened.
Two types of seedless watermelons are out there.
Those picked green and artificially ripened, and those which are rendered sterile by cross pollinating.
Once cross pollinated to get the seeds to produce a sterile watermelon, in order for the seedless to get pollinated, they have to be grown alongside seeded varieties. The fruit is more dense and has less taste than a seeded watermelon.
If the texture of a seedless watermelon resembles plastic from a replicator it was probably green picked.
And therein is the problem. A watermelon will not naturally ripen further after it is picked, so artificial means of ripening are employed.
Farmers would love it if they could pick the melons green. But without the necessary means to ripen them, they simply cannot do that.
Oh, there are also Texas Black Diamond Melons, which are not the original Black Diamonds either.
I would gladly pay 20 bucks for a real Black Diamond, because they are worth it, both in flavor and texture.
Re: Black Diamond Melon
I can't claim to have all the experience with plants that you have, but I can say the Black Diamond melon I bought was ripe. It had a fully green rind and a small ivory colored spot where it was sitting on the ground. Thumping it sounded ripe. LOL How it was ripened and from whence it came is unknown, to me anyway. I didn't realize there were clones out there and I know I did not pay $20 for this green basketball sized fruit. I'm thinking it was more like $8 and on sale. By no stretch of the imagination could my melon be called black or even slightly elongated. It's totally round. The seeds were mostly non-existent. Those that were there were white immature ones and a few black ones here and there. Most likely this isn't the melon you recommended, but as I noted earlier it's not half bad. The history I read on the Black Diamond says the originals back in the 50''s were elongated ovals and had seed-spitting-contest quality black seeds inside. It's been a very long time since I have seen any melon with those kind of seeds. They also say a round seedless was developed from the original. I don't know what I have, but it probably is a knock off. I don't get how they can get away calling it something it is not. There must be some laws against that.
Re: Black Diamond Melon
One of the reasons watermelons are not as good as they used to be has a lot to do with farmers raising seedless watermelons and the seeded varieties necessary to produce seedless is done through inbreeding. Therefore, a seeded watermelon is probably an inbred melon used to produce the pollen for their seedless crops.
The male plant is a Diploid, and the female a Tetraploid, both of these originals are excellent watermelons.
However, only a few originals are raised for the purpose of inbreeding.
An inbred Tetraploid is sterile. But in order to produce fruit, it's flowers need to be pollinated, but not by a normal Diploid, the Diploid must be an inbred version also.
So, you would plant let's say 300 sterile inbred Tetraploid plants, and 100 inbred Tetraploid plants in rows close to each other.
The resulting watermelons would be a Triploid or seedless watermelon from the Tetraploid plants, and seeded inbred watermelons from the Diploid plants.
My comment: After inbreeding two different strains of Black Diamonds four times to get the final inbred male and female plants, is it really still a Black Diamond. Then is the offspring of the Tetraploid plants, seedless Triploid watermelons really a Black Diamond anymore.
Here I just cobbed this from online it explains it more clearly than I did, I think.
Seedless varieties are produced by crossing a tetraploid (2n=4x=44) inbred line as the female parent with a diploid (2n=2x=22) inbred line as the male parent of the hybrid. The reciprocal cross (diploid female parent) does not produce seeds. The resulting hybrid is a triploid (2n=3x=33). Triploid plants have three sets of chromosomes, and three sets cannot be divided evenly during meiosis (the cell division process that produces the gametes). This results in non-functional female and male gametes although the flowers appear normal. Since the triploid hybrid is female sterile, the fruit induced by pollination tend to be seedless. Unfortunately, the triploid has no viable pollen, so it is necessary to plant a diploid variety in the production field to provide the pollen that stimulates fruit to form. Usually, one third of the plants in the field are diploid and two thirds are triploid, although successful production has been observed with as little as 20% diploids. Varieties should be chosen that can be distinguished easily so the seeded diploid fruit can be separated from the seedless triploid fruit for harvesting and marketing.
For the life of me, I have no idea why farmers would even mess with seedless watermelons.
Although the flavor has improved a little over the years, the texture has not.
And what seeded ones they do sell are as I said earlier, cross-variety inbreds, so again, nothing like the originals.
The male plant is a Diploid, and the female a Tetraploid, both of these originals are excellent watermelons.
However, only a few originals are raised for the purpose of inbreeding.
An inbred Tetraploid is sterile. But in order to produce fruit, it's flowers need to be pollinated, but not by a normal Diploid, the Diploid must be an inbred version also.
So, you would plant let's say 300 sterile inbred Tetraploid plants, and 100 inbred Tetraploid plants in rows close to each other.
The resulting watermelons would be a Triploid or seedless watermelon from the Tetraploid plants, and seeded inbred watermelons from the Diploid plants.
My comment: After inbreeding two different strains of Black Diamonds four times to get the final inbred male and female plants, is it really still a Black Diamond. Then is the offspring of the Tetraploid plants, seedless Triploid watermelons really a Black Diamond anymore.
Here I just cobbed this from online it explains it more clearly than I did, I think.
Seedless varieties are produced by crossing a tetraploid (2n=4x=44) inbred line as the female parent with a diploid (2n=2x=22) inbred line as the male parent of the hybrid. The reciprocal cross (diploid female parent) does not produce seeds. The resulting hybrid is a triploid (2n=3x=33). Triploid plants have three sets of chromosomes, and three sets cannot be divided evenly during meiosis (the cell division process that produces the gametes). This results in non-functional female and male gametes although the flowers appear normal. Since the triploid hybrid is female sterile, the fruit induced by pollination tend to be seedless. Unfortunately, the triploid has no viable pollen, so it is necessary to plant a diploid variety in the production field to provide the pollen that stimulates fruit to form. Usually, one third of the plants in the field are diploid and two thirds are triploid, although successful production has been observed with as little as 20% diploids. Varieties should be chosen that can be distinguished easily so the seeded diploid fruit can be separated from the seedless triploid fruit for harvesting and marketing.
For the life of me, I have no idea why farmers would even mess with seedless watermelons.
Although the flavor has improved a little over the years, the texture has not.
And what seeded ones they do sell are as I said earlier, cross-variety inbreds, so again, nothing like the originals.
Re: Black Diamond Melon
If I just met you today I'd assume you have a degree in botany. Then again, not to discount your wealth of knowledge, a family involved in the business certainly added to your education. You got a lot of hands on experience, literally.
Since I don't know where this melon was grown, I would have a hard time saying if it took 90 or 120 days to grow it. My initial thought would be the shorter of the two. Time is always of the essence. The 120 day crop, if there is any such thing these days, probably won't go to market until September or October. I don't recall seeing Black Diamonds at that time of the year, but I never really looked hard.
Farmers always look for ways to maximize their return for very little effort. I was talking to an Oklahoma farmer a while back and he was telling me about some crop that he would have to grow for three years before he had anything that was worth sending to market. But, after that amount of time the crop (I forgot what he called it) would require virtually no maintenance and the profits are high. So he was willing to go three years before he would see the benefits of his labor. I'm guessing the seedless watermelon growers go through something similar. That type of melon is in high demand. It amazes me that there isn't more use of genetics to develop a seedless watermelon that doesn't need all that cross breeding, or inbreeding. I know there is a big bias against anything GMO, but that's exactly what is going on anyway. Why not short cycle it by using a lab instead of wasting farmland like that?
Since I don't know where this melon was grown, I would have a hard time saying if it took 90 or 120 days to grow it. My initial thought would be the shorter of the two. Time is always of the essence. The 120 day crop, if there is any such thing these days, probably won't go to market until September or October. I don't recall seeing Black Diamonds at that time of the year, but I never really looked hard.
Farmers always look for ways to maximize their return for very little effort. I was talking to an Oklahoma farmer a while back and he was telling me about some crop that he would have to grow for three years before he had anything that was worth sending to market. But, after that amount of time the crop (I forgot what he called it) would require virtually no maintenance and the profits are high. So he was willing to go three years before he would see the benefits of his labor. I'm guessing the seedless watermelon growers go through something similar. That type of melon is in high demand. It amazes me that there isn't more use of genetics to develop a seedless watermelon that doesn't need all that cross breeding, or inbreeding. I know there is a big bias against anything GMO, but that's exactly what is going on anyway. Why not short cycle it by using a lab instead of wasting farmland like that?
Re: Black Diamond Melon
Strawberries take three years before they produce full yield, and they should yield for about 3 to 5 years.
However, farmers who do raise strawberries for resale, and/or self-picking buy corms that are already on their third year, so they get the full crop right away. This is an expensive way of doing it, but many places operate that way.
And because of Patents, they can't take the new corms to use in two or three more years either.
Same thing with corn farmers, they cannot save the seeds of lets say Funk's G-Hybrid for use next year. They must buy fresh seed from Funk's or get sued for Patent infringement.
There have been a lot of lawsuits about plants claimed to be under Patent, when what happened was they became cross-pollinated from farmers crops near them so had signs of the patented variety.
Black Diamond watermelon, the original, is not disease resistant, can easily get sunburned, and suffer from poor weather conditions. Technically a farmer would be crazy to tie up his fields for 120 days and hope they get enough sale-able melons to cover their costs. But there are a few who set aside a small area for Black Diamonds, just so they can have some for their own family, and if the crop is good, they sell the extras.
But with so many raising seedless melons now, most of the seeded melons for sale are technically waste melons used to pollinate the seedless melon plants.
They just don't quit messing with things and as a result end up ruining everything.
We had certain plants we raised that took a great deal of work to come up with the final product.
Plant A had to pollinate Plant B to get Plant E. Plant C had to pollinate plant D to get plant F.
Then plant E had to pollinate plant F to get plant G. Then the cuttings from plant G were used to raise more of plant G, but they were sterile, so the seeds were not viable. Also, second generation cutting would revert back to plant E or F, and then back to plants A, B, C, or D, but not pure to redo the whole process from them because the crosses never truly go completely away.
If they did, we could eventually get back the heirloom tomatoes from a hybrid, given enough generations, but it don't work that way due to the mutations caused by cross-breeding in the first place.
This is why the government keeps heirloom seeds in storage, to protect the original strains.
However, farmers who do raise strawberries for resale, and/or self-picking buy corms that are already on their third year, so they get the full crop right away. This is an expensive way of doing it, but many places operate that way.
And because of Patents, they can't take the new corms to use in two or three more years either.
Same thing with corn farmers, they cannot save the seeds of lets say Funk's G-Hybrid for use next year. They must buy fresh seed from Funk's or get sued for Patent infringement.
There have been a lot of lawsuits about plants claimed to be under Patent, when what happened was they became cross-pollinated from farmers crops near them so had signs of the patented variety.
Black Diamond watermelon, the original, is not disease resistant, can easily get sunburned, and suffer from poor weather conditions. Technically a farmer would be crazy to tie up his fields for 120 days and hope they get enough sale-able melons to cover their costs. But there are a few who set aside a small area for Black Diamonds, just so they can have some for their own family, and if the crop is good, they sell the extras.
But with so many raising seedless melons now, most of the seeded melons for sale are technically waste melons used to pollinate the seedless melon plants.
They just don't quit messing with things and as a result end up ruining everything.
We had certain plants we raised that took a great deal of work to come up with the final product.
Plant A had to pollinate Plant B to get Plant E. Plant C had to pollinate plant D to get plant F.
Then plant E had to pollinate plant F to get plant G. Then the cuttings from plant G were used to raise more of plant G, but they were sterile, so the seeds were not viable. Also, second generation cutting would revert back to plant E or F, and then back to plants A, B, C, or D, but not pure to redo the whole process from them because the crosses never truly go completely away.
If they did, we could eventually get back the heirloom tomatoes from a hybrid, given enough generations, but it don't work that way due to the mutations caused by cross-breeding in the first place.
This is why the government keeps heirloom seeds in storage, to protect the original strains.
Re: Black Diamond Melon
That farmer I was talking to was talking about some kind of grass; not sure if it was grain or not. I think it was a special kind of hay that took three years to cultivate. The payoff is that it requires nothing but cutting after that.
All I can say about hybridizers is that there must be a very good profit at the end of the process. They go through a LOT of trouble to get their products. Speaking of hybrids, I'm pretty certain most, if not all, roses are hybrids these days. It seems as if the ones we buy in the store as well as the few plants we tried to grow look beautiful but have no aroma. A quick look at one of the rose catalogues has about three or four varieties they sell that are fragrant. What used to be normal now seems to be a specialty. So, the question I have is does creating a hybrid eliminate the flower's fragrance?
I get the reasoning behind the single use corn seeds. There would be no point to patent the strain if just anybody could use it over and over again. Some of the hybrid rose bushes we have purchased come with a warning to not attempt reproducing them asexually. I never would have thought of doing it if they didn't warn me not to. Apparently it's just a mater of letting the flower bloom, then sticking the remaining bud (with seeds) into the ground to grow a new plant. Again a patent issue. Music is another amazing maze of patents. A web site I frequent will sell tracks of music that can be played during a chat. However, there must be two or more people in the chat. The reasoning is that music purchased for rebroadcast to a group is different than the same track purchased for private listening. It's the intent of what you want to do with it that determines which patent it falls under.
All I can say about hybridizers is that there must be a very good profit at the end of the process. They go through a LOT of trouble to get their products. Speaking of hybrids, I'm pretty certain most, if not all, roses are hybrids these days. It seems as if the ones we buy in the store as well as the few plants we tried to grow look beautiful but have no aroma. A quick look at one of the rose catalogues has about three or four varieties they sell that are fragrant. What used to be normal now seems to be a specialty. So, the question I have is does creating a hybrid eliminate the flower's fragrance?
I get the reasoning behind the single use corn seeds. There would be no point to patent the strain if just anybody could use it over and over again. Some of the hybrid rose bushes we have purchased come with a warning to not attempt reproducing them asexually. I never would have thought of doing it if they didn't warn me not to. Apparently it's just a mater of letting the flower bloom, then sticking the remaining bud (with seeds) into the ground to grow a new plant. Again a patent issue. Music is another amazing maze of patents. A web site I frequent will sell tracks of music that can be played during a chat. However, there must be two or more people in the chat. The reasoning is that music purchased for rebroadcast to a group is different than the same track purchased for private listening. It's the intent of what you want to do with it that determines which patent it falls under.
Re: Black Diamond Melon
99% of Rose Bushes are raised on a different rootstock and the hybrid grafted into the rootstock. Because most hybrids cannot support themselves due to a small and weak rootstock. This is why you never trim a rosebush back lower than it's graft, and also trim off any branches that start below the graft.
Some roses are raised solely for their beauty, and others for their fragrance. It's almost like you can't end up with both beauty and a strong fragrance from the same bloom.
There are many crosses made to come up with a rose suitable for grafting, which of course makes them a hybrid.
But very few start as heirloom roses anymore.
A rose started from a seed will probably not grow for very long, especially if it was from a hybrid.
The seeds will probably be sterile for one, and even if you tried to make cuttings, you won't have a strong enough rootstock to maintain the rosebush. They are quite complicated to raise.
Most patented crops, the second generation seeds are either sterile or not true to the parent, due to the inbreeding and cross-breeding to get the first round of viable seeds.
You can buy heirloom corn seeds of over 100 different varieties of corn in order to experiment with your own cross-breeding. But normally, you would not want to eat the corn the heirloom seeds produce, unless you are lucky enough to get a variety that you like.
Just like we can test the DNA of an individual, the genes of any plant can be tested to look for marker indicators that tell the genealogy of a plant. Once that marker is in there, no matter how many times it reverts back toward heirloom, that marker will remain. You can't get by starting with a patented hybrid and work your way back, and then forward again to come up with something new, because even if you did get something new, that darn marker is still there.
Some roses are raised solely for their beauty, and others for their fragrance. It's almost like you can't end up with both beauty and a strong fragrance from the same bloom.
There are many crosses made to come up with a rose suitable for grafting, which of course makes them a hybrid.
But very few start as heirloom roses anymore.
A rose started from a seed will probably not grow for very long, especially if it was from a hybrid.
The seeds will probably be sterile for one, and even if you tried to make cuttings, you won't have a strong enough rootstock to maintain the rosebush. They are quite complicated to raise.
Most patented crops, the second generation seeds are either sterile or not true to the parent, due to the inbreeding and cross-breeding to get the first round of viable seeds.
You can buy heirloom corn seeds of over 100 different varieties of corn in order to experiment with your own cross-breeding. But normally, you would not want to eat the corn the heirloom seeds produce, unless you are lucky enough to get a variety that you like.
Just like we can test the DNA of an individual, the genes of any plant can be tested to look for marker indicators that tell the genealogy of a plant. Once that marker is in there, no matter how many times it reverts back toward heirloom, that marker will remain. You can't get by starting with a patented hybrid and work your way back, and then forward again to come up with something new, because even if you did get something new, that darn marker is still there.
Re: Black Diamond Melon
If the hybrid rose seeds are sterile, then I don't understand the warning I read telling me to NOT reproduce this plant asexually. Apparently, if I tried it would not work.
I also find it interesting that roses are not cross pollinated to achieve the hybrid. My thoughts were that grafting simply acted like a parasitic attachment and I didn't realize the qualities of both plants would be combined that way. I had an apple tree that grew two different varieties of apples which I believed were true to their variety and not a combination. To me it was just a novelty, but apparently more is at work than mere eye candy.
I also find it interesting that roses are not cross pollinated to achieve the hybrid. My thoughts were that grafting simply acted like a parasitic attachment and I didn't realize the qualities of both plants would be combined that way. I had an apple tree that grew two different varieties of apples which I believed were true to their variety and not a combination. To me it was just a novelty, but apparently more is at work than mere eye candy.
Re: Black Diamond Melon
Asexual reproduction is done by taking stem, or leaf cuttings and rooting them, or by grafting buds to a hearty rootstock.
The seeds from a hybrid will either be sterile, or not produce true to kind.
YES THEY ARE! Most rose hybrids are created using cross-pollination.
The pollen from Rose Type A is used to pollinate Rose Type B, to get Rose Type C (the hybrid).
Another method is by Grafting, but Grafting does not necessarily mean you will get a Hybrid by doing so.
There are several types of Grafts and when speaking of roses, all Hybrid roses are grafted onto a hearty rootstock.
Grafting is not used to create a new hybrid, but to make a new hybrid so it will survive and thrive.
That being said, their are some grafting techniques that will in some cases cause a mixture of genomes. But this only occurs if if a new branch forms on the plant from both parents at the same time. This is rare.
Fruit Trees are an example where you can graft many different varieties of apples on the same tree.
There is no worry about the genomes mixing with this type of graft, because you are not doing a split graft for one.
And even if you did do a split graft, it is doubtful you would ever get a new branch on the tree coming from both sides of the split at the same time.
I have tried split grafts with mums of two varieties several times, and never, not even once, did I get anything other than the two types of mums growing on the same stalk. Most of the time the split plant would die, but with doing hundreds of them at once, at least 25% will take, heal, and grow.
On a fruit tree, all you are doing to add a new apple type to the tree is drilling a hole in the tree, and carving a pointed oval over the hole in the bark. The bark on the new branch is split and peeled back then trimmed to match the bark on the tree, and sealed tightly against the existing bark of the tree. Then you cross your fingers and hope it knits like a bone and provides nourishment to the new branch.
An easier method is known as budding, where you merely slip the buds of a different apple tree under the bark of an existing apple tree. Doing it this way will produce very weak branches for along time, until the tree grows a few years for the branch to become a true part of the tree. In rare cases, budding sometimes produces a different fruit than what the bud was originally, due to genome mixing at the wound site with the bud.
The seeds from a hybrid will either be sterile, or not produce true to kind.
YES THEY ARE! Most rose hybrids are created using cross-pollination.
The pollen from Rose Type A is used to pollinate Rose Type B, to get Rose Type C (the hybrid).
Another method is by Grafting, but Grafting does not necessarily mean you will get a Hybrid by doing so.
There are several types of Grafts and when speaking of roses, all Hybrid roses are grafted onto a hearty rootstock.
Grafting is not used to create a new hybrid, but to make a new hybrid so it will survive and thrive.
That being said, their are some grafting techniques that will in some cases cause a mixture of genomes. But this only occurs if if a new branch forms on the plant from both parents at the same time. This is rare.
Fruit Trees are an example where you can graft many different varieties of apples on the same tree.
There is no worry about the genomes mixing with this type of graft, because you are not doing a split graft for one.
And even if you did do a split graft, it is doubtful you would ever get a new branch on the tree coming from both sides of the split at the same time.
I have tried split grafts with mums of two varieties several times, and never, not even once, did I get anything other than the two types of mums growing on the same stalk. Most of the time the split plant would die, but with doing hundreds of them at once, at least 25% will take, heal, and grow.
On a fruit tree, all you are doing to add a new apple type to the tree is drilling a hole in the tree, and carving a pointed oval over the hole in the bark. The bark on the new branch is split and peeled back then trimmed to match the bark on the tree, and sealed tightly against the existing bark of the tree. Then you cross your fingers and hope it knits like a bone and provides nourishment to the new branch.
An easier method is known as budding, where you merely slip the buds of a different apple tree under the bark of an existing apple tree. Doing it this way will produce very weak branches for along time, until the tree grows a few years for the branch to become a true part of the tree. In rare cases, budding sometimes produces a different fruit than what the bud was originally, due to genome mixing at the wound site with the bud.
Re: Black Diamond Melon
I learned something from your explanation, or more accurately you confirmed what I already suspected but wasn't confident about. The only grafting I ever did was with a rubber tree plant. It's pretty hard not to be successful if you do it right. I cut a slit in a healthy branch and then put a cutting in there with some rooting hormone. Wrapped it all up in sphagnum peat and then tied it in place with plastic wrap. I think I did 5 on a single plant that way. When the roots formed in the peat moss I detached it and potted the new plant. Sold all five to a single customer at a garage sale. 
I had something like a 10x50 vegetable garden and a screened in porch at the first house we owned. Sometimes I'd plant flowers in with the vegies to scare away the bugs. It rarely worked but I did like to experiment with stories I've heard. The screened in porch was a perfect greenhouse. Well not really, but it worked very well when the temps were above freezing. Most of my veggies started from seed were hardened off in that porch. It was fun and I miss it. The community where I live now is way too sterile to contaminate a back yard with a garden. Besides, I never tried growing anything but grass on a hillside. Not sure a traditional garden would stay in place. LOL
I had something like a 10x50 vegetable garden and a screened in porch at the first house we owned. Sometimes I'd plant flowers in with the vegies to scare away the bugs. It rarely worked but I did like to experiment with stories I've heard. The screened in porch was a perfect greenhouse. Well not really, but it worked very well when the temps were above freezing. Most of my veggies started from seed were hardened off in that porch. It was fun and I miss it. The community where I live now is way too sterile to contaminate a back yard with a garden. Besides, I never tried growing anything but grass on a hillside. Not sure a traditional garden would stay in place. LOL
Re: Black Diamond Melon
My house is on Rodgers Ridge, a foothill to the Great Smoky Mountains.
My property line is 15 feet from the crest of the hill. It would have been 30 feet if they didn't abandon building the road along the crest as was on the original subdivision plans. But everyone who bought land on the south side of Valley Drive, bought that 1/2 acre, plus the 1/2 acre going up the rest of the hill to the crest. Mainly to prevent someone from building up there and sliding down into our houses, hi hi. Since everyone bought the extra 1/2 acre, they abandoned building a road up there. The other side of the crest was owned by farmers who did not sell to the subdivision building, so no houses would have been on the south side of that road anyhow. Saved them the cost of building a road, and gave the folks south of Valley Drive a deal to buy that back lot for less than it was intended to sell for.
This is why we have, or in some cases for other families had two deeds. If you sell, you must combine the two deeds into one. The way I acquired this property, I was able to keep both lots separate, which saves me about 400 to 600 dollars per year in taxes, if not more.
I was going to put in a man-made creek for decorative purposes coming down from the top of the hill. It would have looked nice, and at the time, the cost to run a 3/4 horse water pump continuously was not all that bad. Now I'm glad I never got around to doing that, hi hi. Besides the maintenance the electric costs would have killed me, along with the add-in water it would consume through evaporation.
That being said, on another foothill a man put in a much smaller creek, and uses drain tiles to catch water further up the hill, so he never has to add water, and it is small enough in length he only needed a 1/4 horse pump to keep it running.
He can turn his off at night, but it causes a few other problems for him when he does, so he leaves it on all the time now.
Near him a lady has a water fountain in her yard, the city got after her about, open water here is considered a haven for mosquito's. She had the fountain drained and a mesh screen placed over the basin to keep dirt and debris out, and had the thing filled with some dilute form of mineral oil. Several changes were made to it and it looks nice to drive by and watch, especially the new part with hundreds of lines of beads of oil flowing down. Like those little ones with a statue inside you could buy for your house a few decades ago. Her biggest problem is the oil traps dust and pollen, she had to have large filters installed and has to clean them all the time. I'm sure that was expensive, but the folks who live over there can afford it I'm sure.
My property line is 15 feet from the crest of the hill. It would have been 30 feet if they didn't abandon building the road along the crest as was on the original subdivision plans. But everyone who bought land on the south side of Valley Drive, bought that 1/2 acre, plus the 1/2 acre going up the rest of the hill to the crest. Mainly to prevent someone from building up there and sliding down into our houses, hi hi. Since everyone bought the extra 1/2 acre, they abandoned building a road up there. The other side of the crest was owned by farmers who did not sell to the subdivision building, so no houses would have been on the south side of that road anyhow. Saved them the cost of building a road, and gave the folks south of Valley Drive a deal to buy that back lot for less than it was intended to sell for.
This is why we have, or in some cases for other families had two deeds. If you sell, you must combine the two deeds into one. The way I acquired this property, I was able to keep both lots separate, which saves me about 400 to 600 dollars per year in taxes, if not more.
I was going to put in a man-made creek for decorative purposes coming down from the top of the hill. It would have looked nice, and at the time, the cost to run a 3/4 horse water pump continuously was not all that bad. Now I'm glad I never got around to doing that, hi hi. Besides the maintenance the electric costs would have killed me, along with the add-in water it would consume through evaporation.
That being said, on another foothill a man put in a much smaller creek, and uses drain tiles to catch water further up the hill, so he never has to add water, and it is small enough in length he only needed a 1/4 horse pump to keep it running.
He can turn his off at night, but it causes a few other problems for him when he does, so he leaves it on all the time now.
Near him a lady has a water fountain in her yard, the city got after her about, open water here is considered a haven for mosquito's. She had the fountain drained and a mesh screen placed over the basin to keep dirt and debris out, and had the thing filled with some dilute form of mineral oil. Several changes were made to it and it looks nice to drive by and watch, especially the new part with hundreds of lines of beads of oil flowing down. Like those little ones with a statue inside you could buy for your house a few decades ago. Her biggest problem is the oil traps dust and pollen, she had to have large filters installed and has to clean them all the time. I'm sure that was expensive, but the folks who live over there can afford it I'm sure.
Re: Black Diamond Melon
This place I'm in now is "plain vanilla" for the most part. A lot has to do with the HOA, which I think is a more or less useless organization. Not only that, there is a management company for the gods only know what purpose. All I know is I must send them several hundred dollars a year for no reason. The people in back of me belong to the same HOA and they pay a lot more because they live in what I call row houses. Those houses get their grass cut and a few other maintenance items on the property too. The issue I have is that there are hundreds of stipulations regarding what I can and cannot do on my property. Putting in a garden would require approval from the board, for example. I'm guessing I could get that approval, but, as I said, the landscape here is mostly downhill. I'd have to make tiers or something to keep it all in place. So I now stick to potted plants. I have parsley and basil growing under the birds nests beneath my deck. 
Re: Black Diamond Melon
I lived in an apartment that had so many rules and regulations you couldn't do anything at all outside.
However, I managed to get by with murder, and ended up having a side yard next to my apartment as a private yard.
There I planted flowers with some vegetables hidden behind them.
You would never believe the things I got by doing there, and most were done to help the manager/owner out.
A tall steel light standard that lit the stairway up from the parking lot, and part of the parking lot too, fell over, rusted in half right above the ugly concrete pillar it was mounted on.
I just happen to have a breakaway light tower I used for my antenna's at my parents house.
I poured a new mount for it tight up against the old ugly mount, and then after hiding an antenna inside the top which was fiberglass, along with the new lights, I built a wishing well around the old concrete pillar and placed a pair of hollow wooden pillars to support the roof of the wishing well. The light standard was inside one of the hollow wooden pillars.
Then I added a cross piece with a bucket at a 30 degree angle, a water pump and water flowed 24/7 out of the bucket into the basin below. I also added lights inside the fountain under the roof to light the bucket and in the bottom to show between the brickwork gaps I purposely added. Looked neat.
Since I got by with that, I used all kinds of tricks to add several ham radio antenna's outdoors, although visible, the people were trained in such a way they didn't notice them.
What did I mean by that?
To put up my 160 meter dipole, I flew a box kite from the field past our parking lot, and let it drop down over a tall sign near the road at the front eastern corner of our apartment complex. I purposely got the kite hung up on that tall sign, and from the field I let the kite string go up and over the light standard at the rear western corner of the parking lot.
This meant the kite string passed over my building right were a sewer vent came out of the roof above my apartment, which was down on the first floor.
In the dark of night, I replaced the thin kite string with a heavy nylon twine, using the kite string to pull it up near where the kite was caught on the sign, and across the apartment complex to the rear light standard, and tied it off so I could reach it from the ground.
I left it that way for a few weeks, as the kite slowly deteriorated.
Everyone knew it was only a kite string because they could see the kite with ease, hi hi.
Then I used the nylon twine to pull up a light bluish gray insulated copper wire I had carefully measured the length of to make a 160 meter dipole. I made sure the exact center of the dipole was above the sewer vent. This is where I added the strain insulator and coaxial cable which ran down the inside of the sewer vent to my apartment through the cleanout plug.
I lived there four more years after I installed that antenna and the only comments I ever heard was neighbors who said, "One would think that old kite string would have rotted away by now. Must be some good string, another would say."
When I got ready to move, I had something like nine antenna's outside I had to take down. Plus I had to take down the wishing well, leaving the light standard I put in, an outdoor sound system, coach lights and a few other things.
A couple of neighbors watched me pulling down all those antenna's and said they couldn't believe they never saw them up there before. Most were well hidden which is why they didn't see them.
While I'm on the subject. I also used the gutters and downspouts on the building I was in to make antenna's. Now those I left up and didn't let anyone know about those. I didn't want to go to the trouble if replacing the PVC parts that separated the downspouts back with aluminum. Besides, the PVC pieces I added in were always placed behind a PVC mounting strap. These building were old and the gutters and downspouts painted a few times, so it was easy to swap out a metal piece for PVC and then paint over them to match the existing paint job.
When I lived in another apartment down in Brentwood, I had built a multi-band J-Pole, but made it look like a Soharo Cactus in a large clay flower pot. Nobody ever thought it was anything more than a decoration in the corner of my deck area. I used yellow Pixie Pick-up Sticks and a blowtorch to heat the metal to add THORNS to my cactus. Actually, it looked pretty cool. I also had to get the coax from it into my apartment where no one could see it.
To the left of every deck was a water faucet, but none on the right side of the decks. Not that anyone else ever noticed.
I bought a real wall mount water faucet and took it apart to remove the guts. Sawed the stem for the handle so I could put it back in, so it still had a handle. There was already a small caulked in hole near the right side of the deck where the phone company once had a small phone box attached. I made use of this spot to clear out the hole by drilling through to my apartment baseboard area. Affixed the faucet to the wall. Then I took a small piece of garden hose and screwed it to the faucet and ran the other end over to my big flower pot. It was through this garden hose and hollowed out faucet that I ran the coax from the J-Pole into the apartment, and the coax was hidden behind the baseboard all the way over to my little radio station.
As I said, I'm good at hiding things which were not allowed, hi hi.
However, I managed to get by with murder, and ended up having a side yard next to my apartment as a private yard.
There I planted flowers with some vegetables hidden behind them.
You would never believe the things I got by doing there, and most were done to help the manager/owner out.
A tall steel light standard that lit the stairway up from the parking lot, and part of the parking lot too, fell over, rusted in half right above the ugly concrete pillar it was mounted on.
I just happen to have a breakaway light tower I used for my antenna's at my parents house.
I poured a new mount for it tight up against the old ugly mount, and then after hiding an antenna inside the top which was fiberglass, along with the new lights, I built a wishing well around the old concrete pillar and placed a pair of hollow wooden pillars to support the roof of the wishing well. The light standard was inside one of the hollow wooden pillars.
Then I added a cross piece with a bucket at a 30 degree angle, a water pump and water flowed 24/7 out of the bucket into the basin below. I also added lights inside the fountain under the roof to light the bucket and in the bottom to show between the brickwork gaps I purposely added. Looked neat.
Since I got by with that, I used all kinds of tricks to add several ham radio antenna's outdoors, although visible, the people were trained in such a way they didn't notice them.
What did I mean by that?
To put up my 160 meter dipole, I flew a box kite from the field past our parking lot, and let it drop down over a tall sign near the road at the front eastern corner of our apartment complex. I purposely got the kite hung up on that tall sign, and from the field I let the kite string go up and over the light standard at the rear western corner of the parking lot.
This meant the kite string passed over my building right were a sewer vent came out of the roof above my apartment, which was down on the first floor.
In the dark of night, I replaced the thin kite string with a heavy nylon twine, using the kite string to pull it up near where the kite was caught on the sign, and across the apartment complex to the rear light standard, and tied it off so I could reach it from the ground.
I left it that way for a few weeks, as the kite slowly deteriorated.
Everyone knew it was only a kite string because they could see the kite with ease, hi hi.
Then I used the nylon twine to pull up a light bluish gray insulated copper wire I had carefully measured the length of to make a 160 meter dipole. I made sure the exact center of the dipole was above the sewer vent. This is where I added the strain insulator and coaxial cable which ran down the inside of the sewer vent to my apartment through the cleanout plug.
I lived there four more years after I installed that antenna and the only comments I ever heard was neighbors who said, "One would think that old kite string would have rotted away by now. Must be some good string, another would say."
When I got ready to move, I had something like nine antenna's outside I had to take down. Plus I had to take down the wishing well, leaving the light standard I put in, an outdoor sound system, coach lights and a few other things.
A couple of neighbors watched me pulling down all those antenna's and said they couldn't believe they never saw them up there before. Most were well hidden which is why they didn't see them.
While I'm on the subject. I also used the gutters and downspouts on the building I was in to make antenna's. Now those I left up and didn't let anyone know about those. I didn't want to go to the trouble if replacing the PVC parts that separated the downspouts back with aluminum. Besides, the PVC pieces I added in were always placed behind a PVC mounting strap. These building were old and the gutters and downspouts painted a few times, so it was easy to swap out a metal piece for PVC and then paint over them to match the existing paint job.
When I lived in another apartment down in Brentwood, I had built a multi-band J-Pole, but made it look like a Soharo Cactus in a large clay flower pot. Nobody ever thought it was anything more than a decoration in the corner of my deck area. I used yellow Pixie Pick-up Sticks and a blowtorch to heat the metal to add THORNS to my cactus. Actually, it looked pretty cool. I also had to get the coax from it into my apartment where no one could see it.
To the left of every deck was a water faucet, but none on the right side of the decks. Not that anyone else ever noticed.
I bought a real wall mount water faucet and took it apart to remove the guts. Sawed the stem for the handle so I could put it back in, so it still had a handle. There was already a small caulked in hole near the right side of the deck where the phone company once had a small phone box attached. I made use of this spot to clear out the hole by drilling through to my apartment baseboard area. Affixed the faucet to the wall. Then I took a small piece of garden hose and screwed it to the faucet and ran the other end over to my big flower pot. It was through this garden hose and hollowed out faucet that I ran the coax from the J-Pole into the apartment, and the coax was hidden behind the baseboard all the way over to my little radio station.
As I said, I'm good at hiding things which were not allowed, hi hi.
Re: Black Diamond Melon
You are one clever dude.
The question that comes to mind is one of RFI. Amatuer radio operators are not supposed to interfere with normal broadcast services but with your antenna farm so close to the other apartments I can't see how you did not. You couldn't offer any hi-pass or lo-pass filters without giving away your secret operation. Most neighbors would not recognize RFI as such coming from a ham radio station, but the interference would still be there. How did you deal with that problem? I'd guess the 160 meter rig would blow away most AM receivers close to the antenna -- unless you were running in the milliwatt power range, which I doubt.
The question that comes to mind is one of RFI. Amatuer radio operators are not supposed to interfere with normal broadcast services but with your antenna farm so close to the other apartments I can't see how you did not. You couldn't offer any hi-pass or lo-pass filters without giving away your secret operation. Most neighbors would not recognize RFI as such coming from a ham radio station, but the interference would still be there. How did you deal with that problem? I'd guess the 160 meter rig would blow away most AM receivers close to the antenna -- unless you were running in the milliwatt power range, which I doubt.
Re: Black Diamond Melon
I usually only ran 5 to 10 watts on most bands, perhaps up to 100 watts on the HF bands, but that was about it.
I think you have that wrong Yogi, it's the other way around, normal broadcast and other electronic services cannot interfere with the Emergency Amateur Radio Bands.
We were always after the electric company to fix problems that were interfering with ham radio bands.
Although I wouldn't want to upset the neighbors on purpose. How well their own receivers filter out unwanted signals is their problem, not mine. You buy cheap crap and nothing will keep other signals out of it.
Also, if you read any electronic product you buy it clearly states a warning by the FCC.
"This device complies with part 15 of the FCC Rules. Operation is subject to the following two conditions:
(1) this device may not cause harmful interference, and (2) this device MUST ACCEPT any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation."
Any electronic device that does not require a license to operate comes with this warning. Everything from calculators to TV's has this warning.
Now to be a friendly neighbor, you may want to install a bandpass filter on a neighbors TV who may be picking you up.
Now, if the person causing the interference is doing so by operating the equipment illegally, then of course they can be turned in. A lot of CB operators got some really big fines for running amplifiers, back when the 11-meter band required a license. Since licensing was dropped, it is a whole lot harder to find someone running too much power, especially in mobiles. So the FCC basically just tossed their hands up and said let them have at it, and you see what happened, the 11-meter band got ruined. Now CBers are spreading into other bands, and when they get caught, wow do they get nailed good. When they start using Ham Equipment, there are enough hams out there to triangulate them and turn them in to the FCC. Because ham radio is an emergency service, any interference to the ham bands is taken most seriously.
I think you have that wrong Yogi, it's the other way around, normal broadcast and other electronic services cannot interfere with the Emergency Amateur Radio Bands.
We were always after the electric company to fix problems that were interfering with ham radio bands.
Although I wouldn't want to upset the neighbors on purpose. How well their own receivers filter out unwanted signals is their problem, not mine. You buy cheap crap and nothing will keep other signals out of it.
Also, if you read any electronic product you buy it clearly states a warning by the FCC.
"This device complies with part 15 of the FCC Rules. Operation is subject to the following two conditions:
(1) this device may not cause harmful interference, and (2) this device MUST ACCEPT any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation."
Any electronic device that does not require a license to operate comes with this warning. Everything from calculators to TV's has this warning.
Now to be a friendly neighbor, you may want to install a bandpass filter on a neighbors TV who may be picking you up.
Now, if the person causing the interference is doing so by operating the equipment illegally, then of course they can be turned in. A lot of CB operators got some really big fines for running amplifiers, back when the 11-meter band required a license. Since licensing was dropped, it is a whole lot harder to find someone running too much power, especially in mobiles. So the FCC basically just tossed their hands up and said let them have at it, and you see what happened, the 11-meter band got ruined. Now CBers are spreading into other bands, and when they get caught, wow do they get nailed good. When they start using Ham Equipment, there are enough hams out there to triangulate them and turn them in to the FCC. Because ham radio is an emergency service, any interference to the ham bands is taken most seriously.
Re: Black Diamond Melon
My lawyer is out of town this month so that I can't get a definitive opinion regarding the legalities of emi/rfi. I'm certain that manufacturers have the law in their favor or they would be sued right out of business a thousand times over. Thus the warnings you quoted being everywhere. However, if you deliberately place your broadcasting antenna 10 feet away from my receiving antenna, I'm thinking a judge might rule in my favor because you would be preventing me from receiving those exact emergency broadcasts you claim amateur radio stations live for. It's called radio jamming and governments do it all the time, e.g., Radio Moscow all over the amateur radio bands. I can't say you would go to jail, but the FCC might want to review your license should I call them out to inspect your setup.
Re: Black Diamond Melon
Actually this issue comes up all the time Yogi.
Look at all the different radio antenna's atop the skyscrapers.
Many different services share that rooftop, each with their own antenna farm.
Unless a licensed radio station (which includes Hams since we are licensed emergency stations) is emitting spurious radiation outside of their allocated band, it is up to each individual antenna system owner to add their own filter tanks to block unwanted frequencies. Also known as Cavity Filters. They can also be used to use the same antenna for both transmit and receive via a Duplexer.
A cavity works because of simple physics based on frequency, wavelength, and the length of a 1/4 wave in coax and/or in a cavity. A cavity, depending on how it is made and used can be a peak filter or a notch filter. Different cavity designs have different peak / notch depth characteristics, and different insertion loss characteristics, and there is usually a very visible tradeoff between peak height/notch depth and insertion loss. Some cavities have the connectors in the top, others have the connectors on the side.
Multiple cavities in series can collectively increase the peak height or the notch depth. This additive characteristic is what makes a duplexer possible.
The normal purpose of a duplexer is to allow the simultaneous operation of a receiver and a transmitter in the same frequency band on the same antenna. Duplexers are made from multiple cavities arranged so that the peak (or notch) from each one is added to the previous one and the next one by means of critical length cables.
Back to your neighbors antenna's on the rooftop.
They must provide their own Cavity Filters to block all frequencies which may interfere with their own reception.
Now, here we are talking about Licensed Stations operating with antenna's next to each other.
Enter, stage left, unlicensed communications equipment, such as radios, TVs, low power walkie talkies, CB radios, The Family Radio Service, room to room baby monitors, wireless devices, video cameras for security or surveillance, etc.
All these devices are used by unlicensed individuals, and MUST ACCEPT any interference.
Some services, such as pagers, cell phones, etc. although not directly licensed to the end user, are still a controlled service and those controlling the transmitters for same are duly licensed operators. The user of such devices is transmitting from those devices technically under the control of the station license holder. The devices themselves are locked to the licensed frequency of operation at the power level allowed for that device. It still falls under the FCC rules and regulations for such devices, and here too, they MUST ACCEPT any interference from licensed services.
Your TV receives broadcasts from a licensed TV station. The transmission of the Emergency Information is over the public airwaves, and through other methods, such as through Cable TV or via a Satellite Dish TV System.
If the filters in your TV are not good enough to prevent interference from local or even distant radio or TV stations, this is not the fault of the licensed entity doing the transmitting, provided they are within their own legal boundaries.
It is up to the owner of a receiving device to provide the necessary filtering to receive a signal clearly.
If you don't receive a signal clearly, you can always add more tin foil to the rabbit ears. Remember those days?
If you are receiving signals that cause interference to your reception, it is up to you to buy the necessary filters to block out that interference.
If it were up to the transmitting stations to add filters to everyone who suffered from interference from their station, there would be no transmitting stations at all. No more cell phones, or pagers, no more radio stations, no more private communications systems. Why, because it would not be feasibly possible to stop a cheaply made device from receiving interference.
You cannot stop the rain which blocks your Satellite TV signal, and no filter in the world can filter out the rain.
The motor in my dishwasher causes static on my radio station. Should the dishwasher company come out and add a filter to my radio? I think not! I would just be told to move my radio off the top of the dishwasher or add an outside antenna.
Even though it is the device owners responsibility to add their own filters, most Ham Operators I know keep a box of filters on hand that blocks the transmitted signal for the frequency causing problems and offers them for free to a neighbor who's TV might be picking up the Hams transmissions.
I did have one neighbor who could pick me up on five different bands, so I bought an expensive wide band filter for him. He still picked me up on one band, but it was not through his antenna. He picked me up with the antenna disconnected. I gave him a sheet of cardboard with a layer of aluminum foil on one side, a sheet of paper, another sheet of foil, another paper, and a thin wire running from each of those foil sheet to connect to a ground source, which was the screw on the outlet cover plate. It sat between his TV and the particular ground mounted antenna. No more interference. He was happy! And it stopped his TV from getting snow when his wife used the vacuum cleaner too.
Look at all the different radio antenna's atop the skyscrapers.
Many different services share that rooftop, each with their own antenna farm.
Unless a licensed radio station (which includes Hams since we are licensed emergency stations) is emitting spurious radiation outside of their allocated band, it is up to each individual antenna system owner to add their own filter tanks to block unwanted frequencies. Also known as Cavity Filters. They can also be used to use the same antenna for both transmit and receive via a Duplexer.
A cavity works because of simple physics based on frequency, wavelength, and the length of a 1/4 wave in coax and/or in a cavity. A cavity, depending on how it is made and used can be a peak filter or a notch filter. Different cavity designs have different peak / notch depth characteristics, and different insertion loss characteristics, and there is usually a very visible tradeoff between peak height/notch depth and insertion loss. Some cavities have the connectors in the top, others have the connectors on the side.
Multiple cavities in series can collectively increase the peak height or the notch depth. This additive characteristic is what makes a duplexer possible.
The normal purpose of a duplexer is to allow the simultaneous operation of a receiver and a transmitter in the same frequency band on the same antenna. Duplexers are made from multiple cavities arranged so that the peak (or notch) from each one is added to the previous one and the next one by means of critical length cables.
Back to your neighbors antenna's on the rooftop.
They must provide their own Cavity Filters to block all frequencies which may interfere with their own reception.
Now, here we are talking about Licensed Stations operating with antenna's next to each other.
Enter, stage left, unlicensed communications equipment, such as radios, TVs, low power walkie talkies, CB radios, The Family Radio Service, room to room baby monitors, wireless devices, video cameras for security or surveillance, etc.
All these devices are used by unlicensed individuals, and MUST ACCEPT any interference.
Some services, such as pagers, cell phones, etc. although not directly licensed to the end user, are still a controlled service and those controlling the transmitters for same are duly licensed operators. The user of such devices is transmitting from those devices technically under the control of the station license holder. The devices themselves are locked to the licensed frequency of operation at the power level allowed for that device. It still falls under the FCC rules and regulations for such devices, and here too, they MUST ACCEPT any interference from licensed services.
Your TV receives broadcasts from a licensed TV station. The transmission of the Emergency Information is over the public airwaves, and through other methods, such as through Cable TV or via a Satellite Dish TV System.
If the filters in your TV are not good enough to prevent interference from local or even distant radio or TV stations, this is not the fault of the licensed entity doing the transmitting, provided they are within their own legal boundaries.
It is up to the owner of a receiving device to provide the necessary filtering to receive a signal clearly.
If you don't receive a signal clearly, you can always add more tin foil to the rabbit ears. Remember those days?
If you are receiving signals that cause interference to your reception, it is up to you to buy the necessary filters to block out that interference.
If it were up to the transmitting stations to add filters to everyone who suffered from interference from their station, there would be no transmitting stations at all. No more cell phones, or pagers, no more radio stations, no more private communications systems. Why, because it would not be feasibly possible to stop a cheaply made device from receiving interference.
You cannot stop the rain which blocks your Satellite TV signal, and no filter in the world can filter out the rain.
The motor in my dishwasher causes static on my radio station. Should the dishwasher company come out and add a filter to my radio? I think not! I would just be told to move my radio off the top of the dishwasher or add an outside antenna.
Even though it is the device owners responsibility to add their own filters, most Ham Operators I know keep a box of filters on hand that blocks the transmitted signal for the frequency causing problems and offers them for free to a neighbor who's TV might be picking up the Hams transmissions.
I did have one neighbor who could pick me up on five different bands, so I bought an expensive wide band filter for him. He still picked me up on one band, but it was not through his antenna. He picked me up with the antenna disconnected. I gave him a sheet of cardboard with a layer of aluminum foil on one side, a sheet of paper, another sheet of foil, another paper, and a thin wire running from each of those foil sheet to connect to a ground source, which was the screw on the outlet cover plate. It sat between his TV and the particular ground mounted antenna. No more interference. He was happy! And it stopped his TV from getting snow when his wife used the vacuum cleaner too.
Re: Black Diamond Melon
Back in the olden days of car telephones, way before cell phones, there were two frequency bands that dominated the service. Actually three bands, but nobody used the one around 49MHz (I think). The 150MHz and 450MHz band radio phones were made by Motorola in the plant I worked in. One of my many jobs was to tune the rf cavity filters built into the 450 band radios. Some were duplex, some were simplex. There were two cavity and four cavity filters with tuning stubs at the ends. I'm guessing they were peak filters because I recall having to tune them for max output measured on an rf meter. I don't recall the specs on those things but each cavity had to be tuned for a certain frequency even though they all operated within the same band. That's all I can recall about them. But, I DO know cavity filters. 
The emi/rfi battle has been fought and won many years ago. I'll agree with you on that. I still will see you in court if your ham radio station is causing my defibrillator to go off at random intervals. Now, if you happen to also be overloading my television, you'll not be hearing from me at all.
The emi/rfi battle has been fought and won many years ago. I'll agree with you on that. I still will see you in court if your ham radio station is causing my defibrillator to go off at random intervals. Now, if you happen to also be overloading my television, you'll not be hearing from me at all.
Re: Black Diamond Melon
I think I mentioned I had a Motorola phone in my car, the humongous transceiver was in the trunk. It was provided by the company I worked for. I'm fairly certain it was on 150mHz due to the distance and some skip problems. 450mHz would have to be fairly close to a repeater to work. I don't recall ever having a problem reaching either the St. Louis mobile operator or the one way south in Saint Genevieve or Prairie Durocher, can't remember which city she answered with anymore. But if I was that far south, I would be close enough to one of our pumping stations to use a landline phone from there.
If you did hear me over your TV, I hope you would say something, because I always had a box of band pass filters just for TVI problems with neighbors. Better that than being disgruntled about it. Most of the time I was on bands that did not mess with TVs.
Medical devices are upper frequency, usually up in the microwave range. You would more than likely have a problem around a microwave oven than from a Ham radio operator.
If you did hear me over your TV, I hope you would say something, because I always had a box of band pass filters just for TVI problems with neighbors. Better that than being disgruntled about it. Most of the time I was on bands that did not mess with TVs.
Medical devices are upper frequency, usually up in the microwave range. You would more than likely have a problem around a microwave oven than from a Ham radio operator.