Yes, a lot of switching power supplies used in LED lighting are actually running around 30k cycles.
I had a few fluorescent shop lights in my growing area in my crawl space under the house, and rather than the normal ballasts they had switching power supplies, running at around 15k cycles. This cut the cost of running those lights down to around half, and you never got a hum from them anymore either. The only drawback I had with them was getting them to start when the timer clicked to the on position. The switching power supplies don't apply the high heat to the filaments a normal ballast does. So it takes awhile for the tube to get hot enough to ignite the gas I guess. At least you don't get the flashes like a normal tube does when you first turn it on. No orange glow either. When the bulb does start it is dim for a few seconds and then goes brighter over the next 30 seconds or so. Sorta strange.
Speaking of which. In my bathroom I have some compact fluorescent lamps in glass globes. They too start out super dim and slowly grow to full brightness over the course of about 3 to 5 minutes. They were sold as Sunrise Lamps! But I found a few compact fluorescent lamps that will do this if mounted horizontally. Mainly because the mercury is not at the base where the heat is.
However, the Sunrise Lamps have their starter element way up in the lamp, so they are already far away from the mercury no matter which way they are mounted.
The early dimmer switches were rheostats, so they consumed just as much electric whether the lights were turned up bright or kept down dim. The excess current was burned up in the resistors inside the switch. Which is why the dimmer you kept the lights, the hotter the switches were.
When I was doing gold stamping (hot foil stamping), the controls to adjust the heat on the typefaces was done using pulsing controllers. This kept the cost of running them way down, and they lasted a lot longer too. But running a light bulb that way would burn it out in short order, besides it would be blinking all the time, hi hi.
How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
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Re: How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
Fluorescent lights are pretty interesting gizmos. The idea is to vaporize the mercury and that vapor is then ionized. When the vapor reaches that stage UV light is emitted. That's useless for most purposes so the tube containing all this magic gas is coated with phosphor. The ionized mercury vapor makes the phosphor glow in a range of frequencies our eyes can see. That delay in coming to full brightness has to do with the amount of time it takes to fill the tube to saturation with the mercury vapor. I don't know what advantage a switching power supply would have other than eliminating the 60 cycle flicker. I guess it is cheaper to build and maintain the average voltage output. I'd question your claim that the switched supply doesn't heat the filament because that hot filament is the only reason the bulb lights up. It's possible that there is less current and that could slow down the glowing of the filament, but there are absolute minimums for it all to work in the first place. Both types of supplies must meet those minimums.
Rheostats in residential wiring have more or less been declared a fire hazard. LOL SCR's (silicon controlled rectifiers) have taken their place which amounts to pulse width modulation. The dimmer the light the shorter the pulse. I would guess your typeface heat controllers worked the same way.
Rheostats in residential wiring have more or less been declared a fire hazard. LOL SCR's (silicon controlled rectifiers) have taken their place which amounts to pulse width modulation. The dimmer the light the shorter the pulse. I would guess your typeface heat controllers worked the same way.
Re: How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
I've done one heck of a lot of work with fluorescent lighting, both in structure lighting, as well as in gaming machines and over aquariums. Nearly all fluorescent lamps used to use an inductance coil along with a starter, either push button or starter tube.
These are the cheapest to operate because there is no transformer that is always on. The heaters are only kicked in momentarily to ignite the bulb, and once lit the heaters remain off. The inductor is a simple coil, not a transformer, one wire goes in, one wire comes out, so it is in-line with the hot power line to the lamp. It's main purpose is to prevent the heater coils from overheating and burning out prematurely. It's not working like a spark coil would, hi hi.
I'm sure you probably already know this, but just in case you don't.
There are two pins at each end of a fluorescent lamp. The hot wire goes to only one pin on one end, and the other end goes to neutral or ground. That leaves two unused pins at each end of the lamp. You start the lamp by shorting these two pins together, using a wire from one to the other and just touch it for a second, or you use a push-button in-line on that wire, or you use a starter bulb in-line on that line. It's only purpose is to start the lamp. Once started it is no longer an active part of the circuit.
Also, if the lamp burns out, it consumes no electricity at all. Whereas a ballast lamp uses electric whether the lamp is working or not, because a ballast is a pair of transformers, and the input transformer is always on, if the light switch is on that is. Doesn't matter if the bulb is working or not, that ballast is still using juice to power the input transformer.
Yeppers, the way dimmer switches work have come a long way once they quit burning up so much juice, hi hi.
One church I did a lot of work at while I was an electrician, had these huge motor controlled variac type transformers.
In the church were switches that were actually double pole momentary contact switches. You held the switch up to make the lights grow brighter, and held it down to make them dim down.
But in the control room where the variac's were located, all the switch did was make a DC motor run forwards or backwards to turn the screw drive in the variac up or down to where the contacts touched the bare strip on the coil.
When they kept the lights down low, each of those variac's got super hot, thus the reason for a blower in that room blowing across them.
Most of the repairs to those things was either replacing the DC motor, or belt, or replacing the contacts because they lost their spring tension or burned the ends up.
At the time I was doing this type of work, there was no other way of handling that many lights per circuit, without using a single dimmer switch for each and every lamp, which in the case of this church would have been impossible to do, since there were at least a dozen lamps in each chandelier type lighting fixture.
In my years as a working electrician for Steffan Electric, I've run across some of the weirdest things you could imagine. Especially in the older large buildings that were once knob and tube, converted up to code wiring but still used the old boxes.
In the early days, the hot wire was continuous, and the ground wire is what was switched. Dangerous way of doing things.
A decade later, but still during the knob and tube days, they learned to switch the hot wires, but used a single neutral wire throughout, also dangerous. And to compound the issue, they placed fuses on both the hot and neutral wires.
The latter was the type of installation I worked on the most, eliminating the fused neutral, and balancing the load on the neutral wires, which often meant adding more neutral runs to a building to get it balanced out, while keeping the historical wiring intact. Which meant not using modern wiring or connections.
And that is basically how I got so much experience with Knob and Tube, Western Union Splices, and Friction Tape. All these jobs earned me my Historical Wiring License part of my electricians license. In later years, this led to my getting so many jobs renovating historical homes, and in other areas other than just electrical.
Loved doing the work on historical homes!
These are the cheapest to operate because there is no transformer that is always on. The heaters are only kicked in momentarily to ignite the bulb, and once lit the heaters remain off. The inductor is a simple coil, not a transformer, one wire goes in, one wire comes out, so it is in-line with the hot power line to the lamp. It's main purpose is to prevent the heater coils from overheating and burning out prematurely. It's not working like a spark coil would, hi hi.
I'm sure you probably already know this, but just in case you don't.
There are two pins at each end of a fluorescent lamp. The hot wire goes to only one pin on one end, and the other end goes to neutral or ground. That leaves two unused pins at each end of the lamp. You start the lamp by shorting these two pins together, using a wire from one to the other and just touch it for a second, or you use a push-button in-line on that wire, or you use a starter bulb in-line on that line. It's only purpose is to start the lamp. Once started it is no longer an active part of the circuit.
Also, if the lamp burns out, it consumes no electricity at all. Whereas a ballast lamp uses electric whether the lamp is working or not, because a ballast is a pair of transformers, and the input transformer is always on, if the light switch is on that is. Doesn't matter if the bulb is working or not, that ballast is still using juice to power the input transformer.
Yeppers, the way dimmer switches work have come a long way once they quit burning up so much juice, hi hi.
One church I did a lot of work at while I was an electrician, had these huge motor controlled variac type transformers.
In the church were switches that were actually double pole momentary contact switches. You held the switch up to make the lights grow brighter, and held it down to make them dim down.
But in the control room where the variac's were located, all the switch did was make a DC motor run forwards or backwards to turn the screw drive in the variac up or down to where the contacts touched the bare strip on the coil.
When they kept the lights down low, each of those variac's got super hot, thus the reason for a blower in that room blowing across them.
Most of the repairs to those things was either replacing the DC motor, or belt, or replacing the contacts because they lost their spring tension or burned the ends up.
At the time I was doing this type of work, there was no other way of handling that many lights per circuit, without using a single dimmer switch for each and every lamp, which in the case of this church would have been impossible to do, since there were at least a dozen lamps in each chandelier type lighting fixture.
In my years as a working electrician for Steffan Electric, I've run across some of the weirdest things you could imagine. Especially in the older large buildings that were once knob and tube, converted up to code wiring but still used the old boxes.
In the early days, the hot wire was continuous, and the ground wire is what was switched. Dangerous way of doing things.
A decade later, but still during the knob and tube days, they learned to switch the hot wires, but used a single neutral wire throughout, also dangerous. And to compound the issue, they placed fuses on both the hot and neutral wires.
The latter was the type of installation I worked on the most, eliminating the fused neutral, and balancing the load on the neutral wires, which often meant adding more neutral runs to a building to get it balanced out, while keeping the historical wiring intact. Which meant not using modern wiring or connections.
And that is basically how I got so much experience with Knob and Tube, Western Union Splices, and Friction Tape. All these jobs earned me my Historical Wiring License part of my electricians license. In later years, this led to my getting so many jobs renovating historical homes, and in other areas other than just electrical.
Loved doing the work on historical homes!
Re: How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
Restoration of historical buildings seems like one of the most interesting pursuits one could engage in. I can understand why preserving the building would be important, but keeping a hazardous wiring system in place can't be a good idea for any reason. I guess that was your passion, to understand the old method and reconstruct it to some modicum of safe operation. Once you get that all understood then you would indeed be a highly skilled craftsman who can demand any price he wants for his services. 
As far as fluorescents go, I know the theory. Ionize the gas in a tube so that it conducts electric current. The current flow can then be used to illuminate a phosphor coating, at which point the common man will see the light. I understand that there are various ways to accomplish this task, including solid state replacement tubes. All that is way more than I need to know in order to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
The church lighting problem seems to be similar to what goes on in a movie house where they dim all the lights. I've seen mechanical fork type levers that somebody operates in order to change the density of the transformer core that feeds the lighting system. This change in the amount of metal in the core will produce more or less light to the theater as required. It seems a lot more simple than what the church was doing, but perhaps that theater technology didn't exist when the church was built.
As far as fluorescents go, I know the theory. Ionize the gas in a tube so that it conducts electric current. The current flow can then be used to illuminate a phosphor coating, at which point the common man will see the light. I understand that there are various ways to accomplish this task, including solid state replacement tubes. All that is way more than I need to know in order to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
The church lighting problem seems to be similar to what goes on in a movie house where they dim all the lights. I've seen mechanical fork type levers that somebody operates in order to change the density of the transformer core that feeds the lighting system. This change in the amount of metal in the core will produce more or less light to the theater as required. It seems a lot more simple than what the church was doing, but perhaps that theater technology didn't exist when the church was built.
Re: How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
In many ways, the old knob n tube is actually safer than today's wiring.
In today's wiring using Romex, metal staples are driven over the wires to hold them in place. If you drive those staples in too tight, over time the compression against the wire coating could cause it to split or separate under the staple, this could cause a dead short, or worse, just enough resistance to heat up the staple and set the stud on fire. Rare true, but it does happen.
Then on really long runs of wire, as temperature changes, the wire can sag or be pulled too taught, again possibly cutting or wearing at a staple. Also the wire just passes through holes drilled in the studs.
With knob n tube, there is a ceramic insulating tube usually about 4 inches long that goes through each stud, and the two wires must be installed at least 4 inches apart from each other. So there is no way they can cause a stud to catch fire, and no way can they touch each other, wire just don't sag a whole four inches in a normal installation.
When you approach an outlet or a switch, each wire also has an additional flexible insulation piece placed over them anytime those wires are closer than four inches apart, which they would be going into a pull box for an outlet or switch. In the case of a switch, normally only the hot wire goes to the switch and comes out the other end of the pull box. Except in the case of switched grounds which must be changed to meet code specs for knob n tube restorations.
I've worked with many types of fluorescent installations, and I must admit, some of them were quite confusing to me.
Remember the bowling game where you slid a metal puck over some wires under the pins, and the pins would raise up out of the way. Many of those games had a small fluorescent lamp inside each pin. But only one lighting transformer for all the fluorescent lights in the game. The particular lamps used inside the pins did not have heaters in them, and only one contact at each end. There was an inductance coil as part of the fixture for the light and a metal rod that held the plastic bowling pin in place over it. But without that metal rod, the light would not work either.
I did finally figure out how they worked, after getting my hand zapped a few times.
Like an automotive coil, it makes the spark when the contacts open, not when they close.
So I figured that the inductance coil was off when the light was on, and on when the light was off. So when the power to the coil went off, it created a spark in the tube to cause it to light. But how that was accomplished I have no idea, hi hi. Well, I sorta do, there was a mercury switch on the lever that pulled the bowling pin up when you crossed the wires on the play field. I figure this switch applied power to the inductance coil while the light was off. In any case, it worked well.
Later games like this used infrared sensors, and probably if they still made them today would use LED for the lighting.
Yes, I've seen the lever operated variac units also, and since they use such huge wires for the coil, they don't get near as hot as the smaller variac units like was used in churches and meeting halls in buildings. Some churches just had the variacs mounted inside a box in the wall, and you manually turned the knob to increase or decrease the lighting. It's just the church I was doing some work in used an electric motor to turn them up or down, which used a belt from the motor to the knob on the variac.
I would have hated to see their electric bills when they adjusted lighting that way for such a large place with so many lights.
The old Sportsman Park (baseball stadium) had huge exposed knife switches for turning their field lights off and on.
When they built the new stadium, it still had knife switches, but they were inside metal boxes, like the ones today are still made. A big lever on the outside of the gray metal box, so you can't touch any of the electrical components.
I wish I had some pictures of a few of the old open fuse boxes from days of yore I encountered. You wouldn't believe them!
In today's wiring using Romex, metal staples are driven over the wires to hold them in place. If you drive those staples in too tight, over time the compression against the wire coating could cause it to split or separate under the staple, this could cause a dead short, or worse, just enough resistance to heat up the staple and set the stud on fire. Rare true, but it does happen.
Then on really long runs of wire, as temperature changes, the wire can sag or be pulled too taught, again possibly cutting or wearing at a staple. Also the wire just passes through holes drilled in the studs.
With knob n tube, there is a ceramic insulating tube usually about 4 inches long that goes through each stud, and the two wires must be installed at least 4 inches apart from each other. So there is no way they can cause a stud to catch fire, and no way can they touch each other, wire just don't sag a whole four inches in a normal installation.
When you approach an outlet or a switch, each wire also has an additional flexible insulation piece placed over them anytime those wires are closer than four inches apart, which they would be going into a pull box for an outlet or switch. In the case of a switch, normally only the hot wire goes to the switch and comes out the other end of the pull box. Except in the case of switched grounds which must be changed to meet code specs for knob n tube restorations.
I've worked with many types of fluorescent installations, and I must admit, some of them were quite confusing to me.
Remember the bowling game where you slid a metal puck over some wires under the pins, and the pins would raise up out of the way. Many of those games had a small fluorescent lamp inside each pin. But only one lighting transformer for all the fluorescent lights in the game. The particular lamps used inside the pins did not have heaters in them, and only one contact at each end. There was an inductance coil as part of the fixture for the light and a metal rod that held the plastic bowling pin in place over it. But without that metal rod, the light would not work either.
I did finally figure out how they worked, after getting my hand zapped a few times.
Like an automotive coil, it makes the spark when the contacts open, not when they close.
So I figured that the inductance coil was off when the light was on, and on when the light was off. So when the power to the coil went off, it created a spark in the tube to cause it to light. But how that was accomplished I have no idea, hi hi. Well, I sorta do, there was a mercury switch on the lever that pulled the bowling pin up when you crossed the wires on the play field. I figure this switch applied power to the inductance coil while the light was off. In any case, it worked well.
Later games like this used infrared sensors, and probably if they still made them today would use LED for the lighting.
Yes, I've seen the lever operated variac units also, and since they use such huge wires for the coil, they don't get near as hot as the smaller variac units like was used in churches and meeting halls in buildings. Some churches just had the variacs mounted inside a box in the wall, and you manually turned the knob to increase or decrease the lighting. It's just the church I was doing some work in used an electric motor to turn them up or down, which used a belt from the motor to the knob on the variac.
I would have hated to see their electric bills when they adjusted lighting that way for such a large place with so many lights.
The old Sportsman Park (baseball stadium) had huge exposed knife switches for turning their field lights off and on.
When they built the new stadium, it still had knife switches, but they were inside metal boxes, like the ones today are still made. A big lever on the outside of the gray metal box, so you can't touch any of the electrical components.
I wish I had some pictures of a few of the old open fuse boxes from days of yore I encountered. You wouldn't believe them!
Re: How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
Over the years owning a house of my own there were several occasions where I had to "modify" the wiring. My dad did the same thing in his home and back in those days BX was the preferred wiring for residences. Thus when it was my turn to wire things up that is typically what I used. Apparently is was OK for me to do it, but not what the professional electricians were allowed to do. At least that is what a couple of them told me when I had to call them to fix my mistakes. LOL Using conduit was all they were allowed to do, apparently. Romex was more or less outlawed, probably for all the reasons you cited. It seemed to me BX was as safe as conduit, but maybe not. BX could be kinked if you tried hard enough. I can't say that I recall seeing anything that resembled knob and tube wiring, but then none of the homes I lived in were of historical age.
You have a way of bringing up memories that have been dormant in my head for at least fifty years. I recall playing those bowling machines with a metal hockey puck to knock down (or up in this case) the pins. These were machines located in the local taverns out in the country where my grandpa had a farm. It seems we could never go to visit him without stopping in town to play those machines first. This one tavern in particular had a genuine honest to goodness nickelodeon that required real nickles to hear the music. I had to be less than ten years old when I experienced all that.
By the way, it's possible the coils you talk about lighting up the pins were actually magnetos. All you had to do was make or break the contact to get a spark. I believe at one time that is how spark plugs in automobiles were fired. That was way before my time but I heard stories and owned a magneto coil passed on to me by my dad.
You have a way of bringing up memories that have been dormant in my head for at least fifty years. I recall playing those bowling machines with a metal hockey puck to knock down (or up in this case) the pins. These were machines located in the local taverns out in the country where my grandpa had a farm. It seems we could never go to visit him without stopping in town to play those machines first. This one tavern in particular had a genuine honest to goodness nickelodeon that required real nickles to hear the music. I had to be less than ten years old when I experienced all that.
By the way, it's possible the coils you talk about lighting up the pins were actually magnetos. All you had to do was make or break the contact to get a spark. I believe at one time that is how spark plugs in automobiles were fired. That was way before my time but I heard stories and owned a magneto coil passed on to me by my dad.
Re: How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
One of the reasons you have to have a different electricians license for each county you want to work in, is because the rules are different for each county. Most rural counties will reciprocate if you have a larger county license, such as my license was for St. Louis County, so was recognized by surrounding counties, so you could usually get a license without taking the whole test, just a simplified test that covered nuances for their county. But these types of licenses were usually only temporary and for a specific job or group of jobs. And then too, many cities required you also had their endorsement as well. And of course, each of those cost money, in some cases a lot of money, since they wanted to protect the workers in their own county or city as the case may be.
When I was young, we had several places that had penny and nickel games to play, some of them quite unique.
And of course, super old-fashioned style of doing things. Like the one you turned the crank to watch pages flip to make like a short stick character show, hi hi.
A lawn mower uses a magneto to load the coil to make the spark for the spark plug.
A car uses the battery to charge the coil, and the points and condenser create the spark when they open. The condenser is actually there to keep the points from arcing and burning them out prematurely.
There are many types of lamps that use a spark or arc to ignite them, like high pressure sodium lamps.
When I was young, we had several places that had penny and nickel games to play, some of them quite unique.
And of course, super old-fashioned style of doing things. Like the one you turned the crank to watch pages flip to make like a short stick character show, hi hi.
A lawn mower uses a magneto to load the coil to make the spark for the spark plug.
A car uses the battery to charge the coil, and the points and condenser create the spark when they open. The condenser is actually there to keep the points from arcing and burning them out prematurely.
There are many types of lamps that use a spark or arc to ignite them, like high pressure sodium lamps.
Re: How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
My wood chipper had a Briggs & Stratton 10 hp motor to drive the cutters. I loved the machine and spent many hours in my forest exercising its capabilities. However, the motor was not what I thought Briggs & Stratton quality should be. For example, the fuel pump had gaskets that were guaranteed to dissolve after two seasons of use. I'm sure it had to do with the alcohol in the gas, but nobody nearby sold clean gasoline. So I ended up replacing the fuel pump several times before they changed the gasket. The new improved pump was about twice the price.
Your mention of magneto ignition is what made me think of this engine. One day it simply decided to rest in peace forever. Eventually I concluded the coil was not working, thus no ignition spark. It wasn't that difficult getting to that coil and replacing it. The shop where I bought the machine had the part too. The coil passed through a magnetic field that was part of a permanent magnet in the engine. A gap of proper dimension had to be in place between the coil housing and the permanent magnet. This gap determined the timing. If I recall the box with the coil specified the gap to be .015 inches. I had a feeler gauge that size and didn't think I had a problem. The engine popped a bit but never started after I changed the coil. Reluctantly I had to take the machine to the shop and have their expert work on it. I could not believe how he fixed it. I told him what I did and he said that .015" spec is wrong. It should be .017 which was only specified in a a field manual update. I could not believe such a small distance would make such a big difference, but it did. It was a very expensive repair, but never had a problem with the ignition after that.
The next power tool I purchased had a Honda engine. So much for old reliable made in America.
Your mention of magneto ignition is what made me think of this engine. One day it simply decided to rest in peace forever. Eventually I concluded the coil was not working, thus no ignition spark. It wasn't that difficult getting to that coil and replacing it. The shop where I bought the machine had the part too. The coil passed through a magnetic field that was part of a permanent magnet in the engine. A gap of proper dimension had to be in place between the coil housing and the permanent magnet. This gap determined the timing. If I recall the box with the coil specified the gap to be .015 inches. I had a feeler gauge that size and didn't think I had a problem. The engine popped a bit but never started after I changed the coil. Reluctantly I had to take the machine to the shop and have their expert work on it. I could not believe how he fixed it. I told him what I did and he said that .015" spec is wrong. It should be .017 which was only specified in a a field manual update. I could not believe such a small distance would make such a big difference, but it did. It was a very expensive repair, but never had a problem with the ignition after that.
The next power tool I purchased had a Honda engine. So much for old reliable made in America.
Re: How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
Interesting, I had that same problem with an older riding mower. I did have a dealer replace the coil and it seemed to work fine for about a month, then it was hard to start, and would occasionally die for no reason. I though the fuel filter and replaced that myself. Replaced the plug next. Finally, I pulled the top off the motor so I could get to where the magneto was. I could tell visually it was not right there was just enough to see the different on the two poles and how far they were from the flywheel.
I didn't use a feeler gauge, I just tapped the side that was too far away and tightened the bolt a little tighter than they had it. Tightened the other bolt too. Ran like a top after that, never backfired, started right up, and never died on me. I guess I lucked out with that lucky tap, hi hi.
Nobody makes engines like they used to anymore. They keep adding more crap to them, and they don't run near as well either.
I don't think they measure horsepower the same way anymore either. My old 12 HP mower had much more power than the 14 HP mower I have now. I could mow down a forest with that old mower, but the new one bogs down in heavy grass. Plus the blades do not spin as fast as they used too either.
It might be because the government changed the law from 21,000 blade tip speed down to 19,000 blade tip speed. Even though blade tip speed has nothing to do with the cutting power of the blade. This also may be why commercial lawn mowers have moved down to shorter blades also. Their RPM on the blades is much higher than a residential lawn mower, but the tip speed measurement on a shorter blade would not be as much as on a longer blade either.
I once had a rider mower that used 3 separate blades, only about 14 inches long each, but still cut a 36 inch wide path.
The only thing I hated about that mower was if I turned a corner too sharp, it would miss a crescent sized area of grass. I sorta fixed this problem by using a different cutting pattern on my yard.
I brought this mower up because those blades spun so fast, they almost sounded like a jet engine under the housing.
If I drove over a small mud puddle, it would such the water out of the puddle and spray it across the lawn. But it did give the cleanest cut of any rotary blade mower I've ever owned. The only thing that cut better was a reel type mower.
I had a couple of machines that had Honda engines on them, and neither of them lasted very long.
One was a power washer, the other was a portable generator I used on job sites.
On the power washer, I had to keep the choke set to 1/4 to keep it running.
On the portable generator, it would idle down between the times I was not using the saw, but when I went to use the saw, I had to hold the saw on for a bit before it sped back up enough to run the saw properly. The shop fixed something on it and it finally revved back up faster when I kicked the saw on, but then it burned out the winding in two of my saws.
I got rid of it and bought one with a Huskevarna engine. I used it for several years, and it got sold at my auction.
I didn't use a feeler gauge, I just tapped the side that was too far away and tightened the bolt a little tighter than they had it. Tightened the other bolt too. Ran like a top after that, never backfired, started right up, and never died on me. I guess I lucked out with that lucky tap, hi hi.
Nobody makes engines like they used to anymore. They keep adding more crap to them, and they don't run near as well either.
I don't think they measure horsepower the same way anymore either. My old 12 HP mower had much more power than the 14 HP mower I have now. I could mow down a forest with that old mower, but the new one bogs down in heavy grass. Plus the blades do not spin as fast as they used too either.
It might be because the government changed the law from 21,000 blade tip speed down to 19,000 blade tip speed. Even though blade tip speed has nothing to do with the cutting power of the blade. This also may be why commercial lawn mowers have moved down to shorter blades also. Their RPM on the blades is much higher than a residential lawn mower, but the tip speed measurement on a shorter blade would not be as much as on a longer blade either.
I once had a rider mower that used 3 separate blades, only about 14 inches long each, but still cut a 36 inch wide path.
The only thing I hated about that mower was if I turned a corner too sharp, it would miss a crescent sized area of grass. I sorta fixed this problem by using a different cutting pattern on my yard.
I brought this mower up because those blades spun so fast, they almost sounded like a jet engine under the housing.
If I drove over a small mud puddle, it would such the water out of the puddle and spray it across the lawn. But it did give the cleanest cut of any rotary blade mower I've ever owned. The only thing that cut better was a reel type mower.
I had a couple of machines that had Honda engines on them, and neither of them lasted very long.
One was a power washer, the other was a portable generator I used on job sites.
On the power washer, I had to keep the choke set to 1/4 to keep it running.
On the portable generator, it would idle down between the times I was not using the saw, but when I went to use the saw, I had to hold the saw on for a bit before it sped back up enough to run the saw properly. The shop fixed something on it and it finally revved back up faster when I kicked the saw on, but then it burned out the winding in two of my saws.
I got rid of it and bought one with a Huskevarna engine. I used it for several years, and it got sold at my auction.
Re: How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
I never heard any good stories about Honda small engines; their cars seem to have better engineering behind them. However, when it came time to replace my snow blower B & S engines were rare as the 2 cycle engines of years gone by. I wasn't all that happy with the Honda driven snow blower but it lasted the two years I needed it before we sold the house. I sold it and the lawn mower to the new owner.
I didn't think I would need a snow blower down here in O'Fallon (little did I know back then) but I knew I would need a lawn mower. Since my estate property is tiered I also knew I wanted a 4WD mower. The shop in town had a fabulous selection of equipment; almost as good as the ones I left behind up north. They had a few 4WD mowers and one was a Husqvarna, a brand I never heard of before. It was top of the line and most expensive in it's class, so ... I bought it. LOL I did look at the others but this Husqvarna seemed to be way better built than the others. The dealer told me it was warrantied for 36 months but only if I used alcohol free gas. The closest station for that is about twenty miles away from my home. I chose to use the high octane Mobile instead because that is what I used in all gas engine power tools in previous years. Only one of the tools seemed to have trouble with it, but as I mentioned above that was fixed by improving the gasketing. The other thing about the Husqvarna is they claim it's not necessary to ever change the oil. In fact there is no drain plug even if I wanted to. I have my suspicions about that feature but it lasted me three full seasons so far. Hopefully it will still be working this summer.
The way horse power is measured has not changed since horses were invented. LOL However, I would imagine engine HP is something like specs on a CPU. The faster clock speed of a CPU does not mean it will run your software faster than something half the speed. Horsepower is the output of the engine but, after that, all kinds of levers, belts, gears, and other Rube Goldberg devices can be added to take away from the initial output. I'm sure you know all about that.
I didn't think I would need a snow blower down here in O'Fallon (little did I know back then) but I knew I would need a lawn mower. Since my estate property is tiered I also knew I wanted a 4WD mower. The shop in town had a fabulous selection of equipment; almost as good as the ones I left behind up north. They had a few 4WD mowers and one was a Husqvarna, a brand I never heard of before. It was top of the line and most expensive in it's class, so ... I bought it. LOL I did look at the others but this Husqvarna seemed to be way better built than the others. The dealer told me it was warrantied for 36 months but only if I used alcohol free gas. The closest station for that is about twenty miles away from my home. I chose to use the high octane Mobile instead because that is what I used in all gas engine power tools in previous years. Only one of the tools seemed to have trouble with it, but as I mentioned above that was fixed by improving the gasketing. The other thing about the Husqvarna is they claim it's not necessary to ever change the oil. In fact there is no drain plug even if I wanted to. I have my suspicions about that feature but it lasted me three full seasons so far. Hopefully it will still be working this summer.
The way horse power is measured has not changed since horses were invented. LOL However, I would imagine engine HP is something like specs on a CPU. The faster clock speed of a CPU does not mean it will run your software faster than something half the speed. Horsepower is the output of the engine but, after that, all kinds of levers, belts, gears, and other Rube Goldberg devices can be added to take away from the initial output. I'm sure you know all about that.
Re: How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
Do you remember Clinton Engines?
Most of the small gas powered equipment we had around the florist and greenhouses, with 4 cycle engines, were Clinton.
We did have a few larger gas powered items powered by old Model B Briggs engines, built in the 1940s, back when things were built to last, hi hi.
Nearly everything the company owned with Clinton Engines was purchased between 1950 and 1965 I think. A few may have been prior to 1950, or at least they looked like it anyhow. Especially the old Tillers used in the flower benches. Built long before the fancy electronics, which is probably why they lasted so long.
We have two gas stations within 3 miles of my house that have alcohol free gas, or ethanol free gas actually. They do a good business because of so many antique car clubs down here. It is not uncommon to see old vintage automobiles on our roads here. Plus there are tons of antique car shows out in Gattlinburg and Pigeon Forge.
There are basically two types of antique cars around here, those that are showroom class, and those that were modified into hot rods, hi hi.
There is an insurance salesman here who owns several 1910 to 1920 cars he keeps in close to showroom quality, as best as he can that is. But the two he drives around in daily as his work vehicles, are no where close to being original. The body is about the only thing original. It looks original unless you open the hood, or get inside, hi hi. He has a small block Chevy V8, 327 I think in that one, could be a 350, and a Muncie gearbox with Hurst Shifter, but it is not set up like for racing, it's not a hot rod, he just wanted it reliable. The original car had wood spoke wheels, but his are mag wheels made to look like the old wood spokes. It looks nice, runs nice, has an am/fm radio with CD player, and has AC too, plus power windows, and power steering.
I probably shouldn't mention this here, but on the farm we had an old Two-Cylinder John Deere tractor used only with the big plow. That thing was like riding on a vibrator that shook your guts out. And about the only time it was used was for the first plowing of the year. It had so much horsepower, even unbroken hard ground would not bog it down. But not one person on our farm liked it, not one iota. Even so, it was often used to power our sawmill, since you were not sitting on it, hi hi. A huge belt ran between the side wheel on the tractor and the sawmills side wheel. It had the horsepower to do the job perfectly. I never understood what kept that belt on those flat pulleys until I was in my later years and owned belt sanders. But even then, I thought back and wondered how they got the tractor lined up just right for the belt to track true.
Most of the small gas powered equipment we had around the florist and greenhouses, with 4 cycle engines, were Clinton.
We did have a few larger gas powered items powered by old Model B Briggs engines, built in the 1940s, back when things were built to last, hi hi.
Nearly everything the company owned with Clinton Engines was purchased between 1950 and 1965 I think. A few may have been prior to 1950, or at least they looked like it anyhow. Especially the old Tillers used in the flower benches. Built long before the fancy electronics, which is probably why they lasted so long.
We have two gas stations within 3 miles of my house that have alcohol free gas, or ethanol free gas actually. They do a good business because of so many antique car clubs down here. It is not uncommon to see old vintage automobiles on our roads here. Plus there are tons of antique car shows out in Gattlinburg and Pigeon Forge.
There are basically two types of antique cars around here, those that are showroom class, and those that were modified into hot rods, hi hi.
There is an insurance salesman here who owns several 1910 to 1920 cars he keeps in close to showroom quality, as best as he can that is. But the two he drives around in daily as his work vehicles, are no where close to being original. The body is about the only thing original. It looks original unless you open the hood, or get inside, hi hi. He has a small block Chevy V8, 327 I think in that one, could be a 350, and a Muncie gearbox with Hurst Shifter, but it is not set up like for racing, it's not a hot rod, he just wanted it reliable. The original car had wood spoke wheels, but his are mag wheels made to look like the old wood spokes. It looks nice, runs nice, has an am/fm radio with CD player, and has AC too, plus power windows, and power steering.
I probably shouldn't mention this here, but on the farm we had an old Two-Cylinder John Deere tractor used only with the big plow. That thing was like riding on a vibrator that shook your guts out. And about the only time it was used was for the first plowing of the year. It had so much horsepower, even unbroken hard ground would not bog it down. But not one person on our farm liked it, not one iota. Even so, it was often used to power our sawmill, since you were not sitting on it, hi hi. A huge belt ran between the side wheel on the tractor and the sawmills side wheel. It had the horsepower to do the job perfectly. I never understood what kept that belt on those flat pulleys until I was in my later years and owned belt sanders. But even then, I thought back and wondered how they got the tractor lined up just right for the belt to track true.
Re: How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
Memories of Clinton Engines do not exist in my brain. LOL I may have seen them but surely don't recall ever using one. The first house I owned had some space in back of the garage for a garden. The first or second summer in that house I bought a rototiller from Wards. It was powered by a 7 HP Briggs and Straton and had no problems whatsoever tearing up the earth in back of the garage. Of course after a few years the earth was very soft and only needed tilling to blend in the organic material I tossed on it as fertilizer. Did that for about 25 years and took the tiller with me to the house we custom built. There was no suitable place for a vegetable garden there, but I did have a few flower beds that benefited from the rototiller. It worked really well out in the back forest in that three feet of black dirt too. From time to time I'd till in the weeds just to give things a fresh start. One day a neighbor borrowed it to till up some sod. Well, he cracked the frame doing that, but I told him not to worry. The damned machine was around 35 years old by then. He took it to a shop where a buddy of his welded the frame back together and it worked super for many years after that. The B & S engine needed no repairs ever. All I ever did was replace the spark plug and change the oil. Mmmm, maybe a drive belt or two needed to be replaced, but that engine started every time for the nearly fifty years I owned it. The new house owner was glad to accept it as a gift from me. It is because of this rototiller that I fell in love with B & S engines.
There are a couple antique automobiles I've seen driving through town down here. Apparently there is some kind of old car exhibit once a year at the local VFW hall and some folks drive their antiques to the show. I never got close enough to them to see how they were built or restored but it is interesting how folks around here favor such activity. There were many auto shows up in Chicago but most were downtown at the exhibition center. A few suburbs had shows too but nothing was close enough to spark my interest. I'm impressed with the story about the old Deere tractor running a saw mill. All I can say is that I've talked to more than a few farmers in my days and each one of them were very creative and inventive. Most were missing parts of their hands and feet too because of their creative activity.
There are a couple antique automobiles I've seen driving through town down here. Apparently there is some kind of old car exhibit once a year at the local VFW hall and some folks drive their antiques to the show. I never got close enough to them to see how they were built or restored but it is interesting how folks around here favor such activity. There were many auto shows up in Chicago but most were downtown at the exhibition center. A few suburbs had shows too but nothing was close enough to spark my interest. I'm impressed with the story about the old Deere tractor running a saw mill. All I can say is that I've talked to more than a few farmers in my days and each one of them were very creative and inventive. Most were missing parts of their hands and feet too because of their creative activity.
Re: How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
Nearly everything I ever owned had a Briggs and Straton motor on it, including my little motorized scooter.
I have two tillers, both are good and were used a lot, including by my neighbors.
I also have an electric one I used in the basement to grind up the dirt chunks before putting them in the buckets to carry out.
Now that little electric one has seen a lot of usage too, and always ran like a top.
My gas one is very popular brand that I can't think of at the moment, and it's too cold to go out to the garage to see.
I should know it off the top of my head, but must be having a senior moment here, hi hi.
A lot of the old type tractors had that wheel on the side to run a belt from while the tractor was stationary of course.
They also had a power take-off on the back to power things like brush hogs, and rotating rakes.
Since most of the farming equipment on our place was ancient, and so was the tools used with it.
I think back to seeing the concrete blocks stacked on some to hold them down better.
And a couple of our tools had seats on them with a bar to keep them tracking behind the tractor properly.
Those with the seats were usually the ones with angled plows all in the same direction.
So I guess they would drift a lot and the guide blade was used to keep the rows straight.
We had an interesting corn planting unit that was super wide. It did not have a planter where the front twin tires were, or where the back wide tires would track either. This was great if you used the same tractor for all operations. The only thing we had that followed that same wheel pattern was a wheat harvester, and hay baler. But the hay baler was usually pulled behind a different tractor anyhow, and the front wheels on that tractor were as wide as the back wheels, but not as wide as the big tractor with the twin wheels on the center of the front.
Out by where my brother moved his company too, is an antique car restoration place. He's in St. Charles.
I went through the place, and they a couple of cars, same make and models I owned, but now the price on each was 10 to 20 grand higher, hi hi.
I have two tillers, both are good and were used a lot, including by my neighbors.
I also have an electric one I used in the basement to grind up the dirt chunks before putting them in the buckets to carry out.
Now that little electric one has seen a lot of usage too, and always ran like a top.
My gas one is very popular brand that I can't think of at the moment, and it's too cold to go out to the garage to see.
I should know it off the top of my head, but must be having a senior moment here, hi hi.
A lot of the old type tractors had that wheel on the side to run a belt from while the tractor was stationary of course.
They also had a power take-off on the back to power things like brush hogs, and rotating rakes.
Since most of the farming equipment on our place was ancient, and so was the tools used with it.
I think back to seeing the concrete blocks stacked on some to hold them down better.
And a couple of our tools had seats on them with a bar to keep them tracking behind the tractor properly.
Those with the seats were usually the ones with angled plows all in the same direction.
So I guess they would drift a lot and the guide blade was used to keep the rows straight.
We had an interesting corn planting unit that was super wide. It did not have a planter where the front twin tires were, or where the back wide tires would track either. This was great if you used the same tractor for all operations. The only thing we had that followed that same wheel pattern was a wheat harvester, and hay baler. But the hay baler was usually pulled behind a different tractor anyhow, and the front wheels on that tractor were as wide as the back wheels, but not as wide as the big tractor with the twin wheels on the center of the front.
Out by where my brother moved his company too, is an antique car restoration place. He's in St. Charles.
I went through the place, and they a couple of cars, same make and models I owned, but now the price on each was 10 to 20 grand higher, hi hi.
Re: How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
Farming is an amazing occupation. From time to time I meet a farmer and talk things over with them. 500 or 900 acres of farmland is about normal for the family farmer although my grandpa only had about 40. Grandpa leased out the workable land and never did any farming himself per se, but he lived the style in which he was accustomed to in the old country. He built all the buildings on his property which had no electric nor running water at first. Electric lines were run out to his farm eventually, but only one or two of the buildings were powered. I can still recall sleeping in a cottage lit by kerosene lamps and hearing all the noise produced during the night by the critters. It was pretty loud and noisy considering we were out in the country.
Today's farmers have all the power and water they could ever need, and their homes are as comfortable as you could imagine. The nights are still noisy but a/c is not unheard of these days. Just about every one I've talked to in recent times is struggling along. Most, if not all, have a second job because they can't derive enough income off the land. Nearly all the equipment is antique, or more than 25 years old. I got to wondering about that one day because none of the farmers I talked to could afford to buy anything new. Well somebody bought those antiques new and handed them down when they upgraded. So, not all farmers are just squeaking by, but I have yet to meet one who owns a new Deere, for example; or even a Deere that is less than ten years old.
Be it raising animals or growing crops, those farmers are all at the mercy of "the market." The weather can cause crop failures too but a lot of that is covered by crop insurance. Amazingly not the full value, but a lot of the crop is covered, again depending on what the current market prices are. None of these hard working people want to do anything else even though their 750 acres can be sold for $5,000 per. They would be multi millionaires if they left the farm, and in fact could retire. Nope. It's the land that has been in their family for generations. They can't part with anything like that for any price. And, of course, no real farmer would have a desire to move to the city. I can understand that. Us city slickers want nothing to do with rural living either. LOL
Today's farmers have all the power and water they could ever need, and their homes are as comfortable as you could imagine. The nights are still noisy but a/c is not unheard of these days. Just about every one I've talked to in recent times is struggling along. Most, if not all, have a second job because they can't derive enough income off the land. Nearly all the equipment is antique, or more than 25 years old. I got to wondering about that one day because none of the farmers I talked to could afford to buy anything new. Well somebody bought those antiques new and handed them down when they upgraded. So, not all farmers are just squeaking by, but I have yet to meet one who owns a new Deere, for example; or even a Deere that is less than ten years old.
Be it raising animals or growing crops, those farmers are all at the mercy of "the market." The weather can cause crop failures too but a lot of that is covered by crop insurance. Amazingly not the full value, but a lot of the crop is covered, again depending on what the current market prices are. None of these hard working people want to do anything else even though their 750 acres can be sold for $5,000 per. They would be multi millionaires if they left the farm, and in fact could retire. Nope. It's the land that has been in their family for generations. They can't part with anything like that for any price. And, of course, no real farmer would have a desire to move to the city. I can understand that. Us city slickers want nothing to do with rural living either. LOL
Re: How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
Big Agro-Business is driving a lot of the small farmers out of business because they can mass produce at low prices.
Same as I mentioned in another article. There is only so much a person will pay for something.
So those making a quality product on a small farm, cannot compete with the mediocre products produced by Big Agro.
We were sorta in that same boat ourselves! We could no longer raise our outdoor crops cheaper than we could buy from larger farmers who specialized in only one or two crops, where we had to raise a little of everything.
Where we shined was on those items that have to be raised or kept in a greenhouse.
But our old single pain glass greenhouses, as the cost of fuels kept going up, our profits kept dwindling.
Now we did built a new Exolite greenhouse, so the fuel costs for it were way down compared to the other greenhouses.
And we were in the process of adding Exolite to some of our existing greenhouses during the summer months, but only one side of one house each year due to the cost of the changeover. It was not a simple project to do with what manpower we had.
If it were not for our ability to buy at least 2/3 of the cut flowers we used in the cut flower shop from outside sources, we wouldn't have turned a profit the last decade or so. Near the end, the profits from the cut flower shop were what was keeping the retail greenhouses up and running.
It was a crazy business to be in, for sure!
What is sad, with all we had, and how much we could have expanded our operation to become much bigger than we were, although we were the largest around for over 50 years, the tide had changed. This is one reason we built Quansets down at Barrett Station Road, over 20 of them, to raise the things we couldn't otherwise buy cheaply enough.
But in the very end, it was rules and regulations by our new city government that drove all the other florists out of business, and we were the second to last to shut down completely. A shopping mall went in where we were! More money for the city!
Same as I mentioned in another article. There is only so much a person will pay for something.
So those making a quality product on a small farm, cannot compete with the mediocre products produced by Big Agro.
We were sorta in that same boat ourselves! We could no longer raise our outdoor crops cheaper than we could buy from larger farmers who specialized in only one or two crops, where we had to raise a little of everything.
Where we shined was on those items that have to be raised or kept in a greenhouse.
But our old single pain glass greenhouses, as the cost of fuels kept going up, our profits kept dwindling.
Now we did built a new Exolite greenhouse, so the fuel costs for it were way down compared to the other greenhouses.
And we were in the process of adding Exolite to some of our existing greenhouses during the summer months, but only one side of one house each year due to the cost of the changeover. It was not a simple project to do with what manpower we had.
If it were not for our ability to buy at least 2/3 of the cut flowers we used in the cut flower shop from outside sources, we wouldn't have turned a profit the last decade or so. Near the end, the profits from the cut flower shop were what was keeping the retail greenhouses up and running.
It was a crazy business to be in, for sure!
What is sad, with all we had, and how much we could have expanded our operation to become much bigger than we were, although we were the largest around for over 50 years, the tide had changed. This is one reason we built Quansets down at Barrett Station Road, over 20 of them, to raise the things we couldn't otherwise buy cheaply enough.
But in the very end, it was rules and regulations by our new city government that drove all the other florists out of business, and we were the second to last to shut down completely. A shopping mall went in where we were! More money for the city!
Re: How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
I can only imagine the pride and satisfaction a person (or family) derives from running a business of their own. Unfortunately the dynamics in the world of commerce are fast moving and ever changing. You ran a family owned business until it could not be sustained anymore as such. I'm thinking of bigger fish like Motorola and Microsoft that started out the same way. Both those giants went downhill after the family left the management team. Neither had crashed and burned, yet, but then electronics is not the same as flowers. Running a successful business is only half the battle. The world outside the business changes, as do the needs and wants of its potential customers. The survivors of a rapidly changing business environment tend to be the biggest fish with the most amount of money behind them. the ability to quickly adapt to the new environment is also critical. That's the way I see farming. It's not really inexpensive to run an agricultural conglomerate. The investment in equipment and manpower is enormous; nothing a small farmer could ever do. Then, too, those big guys would never be able to start up if it wasn't for the small businesses cultivating the market first.
Re: How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
H. J. Heimos started as a farm smaller than ours. But they operated in a totally different way than most wholesale florists.
They started out with only X number of varieties, and ran with those varieties until the saturated the market. Basically had all the available clients buying from them. Then they began expanding into more growing areas with new varieties and basically did the same thing, got their clients to begin buying those varieties from them too, instead of where they previously bought them.
Back in our families heyday, sending flowers to funeral homes was the biggest money maker, and held that way for over 50 years.
Then after that, nearly every obituary notice started saying "In Lieu of Flower please donate to blah de blah." However, families of the deceased still wanted the casket spray and at least two standards on each end of the casket. Plus there were always still a few who sent flowers. But even they started switching to plants which the family could keep. We were still selling 6 to 8 casket sprays per day in the early 1980s, but only one standard, and very few other funeral flower arrangements. By 1984 when we closed, if we even had 3 casket sprays per day we were lucky. But even then, it was after the body was laid out for one day, the family would call and say it was to bare and depressing without any flowers there, so they would order some. Often not a full sized casket spray but a small nosegay type of arrangement we made instead of casket sprays.
What killed us the most, is our prices on casket sprays started at 60 dollars, the average was 85 to 100 dollars, and we did have some more expensive too. But folks used to buy a cheaper steel casket and more expensive flowers. Then the tables changed and they began buying very expensive and ornate wood caskets, but scrimped on the casket spray and other flowers, which is why we came up with this tiny nosegay type of spray for 40 to 60 bucks. Those sold like hotcakes for about 3 years, then the fad on them died as fast as it started.
Perhaps it was best that we closed down, because our type of operation never changed, and the three remaining brothers didn't have the ambition to make it grow anymore by venturing into other sales types of opportunities for flowers.
On my own, but through the florist, I came up with a gimmick, which I think I mentioned once before.
I had a special tall box made with open arched windows in the sides and front of an octagon shaped box.
This actually took two boxes of similar shape, one larger than the other as the overwrap box so we could ship them via USPS.
The inside box was decorative of course, and held a single, or two, or three carnations. The were held in place by a block of Hydrofoam in the bottom which gave them water, and partway up the box was double folded piece of cardboard, which was part of the inner box, to hold the stems in place. After a couple of times of advertising them, sales climbed really high and more or less held there once folks knew where they were coming from. Naturally we tried to push the 3 carnation gift, but many of the sales were only 1 or 2 carnations, sometimes something else like a rose, which we really didn't want to do.
The delivered price for a single carnations was 5 bucks, 7.50 for 2 or 10 bucks for 3 and that included the sales taxes.
Came up with a different box designs for St. Patty's day, Easter, Mothers Day, birthday, graduation, etc.
Most of them had the same window cutout in the beginning, but then we used an oval cutout for Easter, and a Shamrock cut-out for St. Patty's day. Seems like there is one other I'm forgetting that had a different cut-out.
But like everything else, sales began to drop, so as the boxes ran out, they were not reordered.
As an aside, when Hydrofoam company was planning on shutting down. My dad ordered two whole rail boxcars from the company and we warehoused them, and also bought their entire inventory when they did close. Oasis does not hold a candle to Hydrofoam. But being a cheaper product and easy to fill by soaking, they more or less garnered the marketplace.
Hydrofoam required a machine to saturate them, but once saturated a customer could add water to the arrangement and it would wick it up. I also assume most florists didn't want the hassle of saturating them, although it was easy and they filled up faster than an Oasis block. It was also denser so held the flower stems tighter, which is one reason our casket sprays didn't fall apart like happened with other florists. Even so, an undertaker may drop one of our every now and then.
Just going to brag here a bit. We used a heavy wire metal frame with rubber ended legs as the base for a casket spray, this then had a paper mache tray, and the block of Hydrofoam was wrapped in tin foil, then chicken wire went over the block, and the whole thing held together with zip wires, aka wire bag ties.
Our competition used a plastic tray with plastic legs that popped off the tray part easily, and Oasis, so flowers could fall out.
They started out with only X number of varieties, and ran with those varieties until the saturated the market. Basically had all the available clients buying from them. Then they began expanding into more growing areas with new varieties and basically did the same thing, got their clients to begin buying those varieties from them too, instead of where they previously bought them.
Back in our families heyday, sending flowers to funeral homes was the biggest money maker, and held that way for over 50 years.
Then after that, nearly every obituary notice started saying "In Lieu of Flower please donate to blah de blah." However, families of the deceased still wanted the casket spray and at least two standards on each end of the casket. Plus there were always still a few who sent flowers. But even they started switching to plants which the family could keep. We were still selling 6 to 8 casket sprays per day in the early 1980s, but only one standard, and very few other funeral flower arrangements. By 1984 when we closed, if we even had 3 casket sprays per day we were lucky. But even then, it was after the body was laid out for one day, the family would call and say it was to bare and depressing without any flowers there, so they would order some. Often not a full sized casket spray but a small nosegay type of arrangement we made instead of casket sprays.
What killed us the most, is our prices on casket sprays started at 60 dollars, the average was 85 to 100 dollars, and we did have some more expensive too. But folks used to buy a cheaper steel casket and more expensive flowers. Then the tables changed and they began buying very expensive and ornate wood caskets, but scrimped on the casket spray and other flowers, which is why we came up with this tiny nosegay type of spray for 40 to 60 bucks. Those sold like hotcakes for about 3 years, then the fad on them died as fast as it started.
Perhaps it was best that we closed down, because our type of operation never changed, and the three remaining brothers didn't have the ambition to make it grow anymore by venturing into other sales types of opportunities for flowers.
On my own, but through the florist, I came up with a gimmick, which I think I mentioned once before.
I had a special tall box made with open arched windows in the sides and front of an octagon shaped box.
This actually took two boxes of similar shape, one larger than the other as the overwrap box so we could ship them via USPS.
The inside box was decorative of course, and held a single, or two, or three carnations. The were held in place by a block of Hydrofoam in the bottom which gave them water, and partway up the box was double folded piece of cardboard, which was part of the inner box, to hold the stems in place. After a couple of times of advertising them, sales climbed really high and more or less held there once folks knew where they were coming from. Naturally we tried to push the 3 carnation gift, but many of the sales were only 1 or 2 carnations, sometimes something else like a rose, which we really didn't want to do.
The delivered price for a single carnations was 5 bucks, 7.50 for 2 or 10 bucks for 3 and that included the sales taxes.
Came up with a different box designs for St. Patty's day, Easter, Mothers Day, birthday, graduation, etc.
Most of them had the same window cutout in the beginning, but then we used an oval cutout for Easter, and a Shamrock cut-out for St. Patty's day. Seems like there is one other I'm forgetting that had a different cut-out.
But like everything else, sales began to drop, so as the boxes ran out, they were not reordered.
As an aside, when Hydrofoam company was planning on shutting down. My dad ordered two whole rail boxcars from the company and we warehoused them, and also bought their entire inventory when they did close. Oasis does not hold a candle to Hydrofoam. But being a cheaper product and easy to fill by soaking, they more or less garnered the marketplace.
Hydrofoam required a machine to saturate them, but once saturated a customer could add water to the arrangement and it would wick it up. I also assume most florists didn't want the hassle of saturating them, although it was easy and they filled up faster than an Oasis block. It was also denser so held the flower stems tighter, which is one reason our casket sprays didn't fall apart like happened with other florists. Even so, an undertaker may drop one of our every now and then.
Just going to brag here a bit. We used a heavy wire metal frame with rubber ended legs as the base for a casket spray, this then had a paper mache tray, and the block of Hydrofoam was wrapped in tin foil, then chicken wire went over the block, and the whole thing held together with zip wires, aka wire bag ties.
Our competition used a plastic tray with plastic legs that popped off the tray part easily, and Oasis, so flowers could fall out.
Re: How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
I had 11 aunts and uncles on dad's side of the family, and 8 more on mom's side. Dozens of cousins were propagated by them. As time passed on, so did the aunts and uncles, meaning I went to a fair share of funerals in my time. The flowers were indeed the attraction. It seemed for a while that there was a kind of competition among the relatives as to who could send the most elaborate arrangement. I'm not sure what that was supposed to signify, but the aroma and appearance of them all around the coffin was often dramatic. Back then in Chicago there were many florists to choose from so that I don't think any one of them benefited from funerals other than the one directly across the street from one of the funeral homes.
At some point when about half the relatives were gone, it occurred to somebody that those flowers were awesomely beautiful, but a terrible waste of money and resources. That's about the time the obits started with those announcements, in lieu of flowers... . Heck, I did the same thing with mom but for different reasons. To my way of thinking the more flowers the better, but mom had a favorite charity that she supported. So that's where I told people to send donations if they didn't want to send flowers. There were a few who did the donations, and a few who did the flower thing. Most, however, gave me a card with cash in it. I don't know where that particular tradition originated but it was well known in our families. Maybe it's a Polish thing. I dunno. The point here is that flowers were no longer favored by the time the last relative passed on. I'm certain many florists in the old neighborhood had to close up shop just for that reason.
You did tell me about the carnations in a box previously. Do you happen to have any left? I can use one for tomorrow. LOL February 23, 2021 marks 59 years (pretty sure that''s correct) since the day I first met my wife. We celebrate it every year about as much as we do the wedding. Generally a small gift, if any, such as the flower in a box is given. Since I haven't yet come up with anything, this may be one of those card-only years.
At some point when about half the relatives were gone, it occurred to somebody that those flowers were awesomely beautiful, but a terrible waste of money and resources. That's about the time the obits started with those announcements, in lieu of flowers... . Heck, I did the same thing with mom but for different reasons. To my way of thinking the more flowers the better, but mom had a favorite charity that she supported. So that's where I told people to send donations if they didn't want to send flowers. There were a few who did the donations, and a few who did the flower thing. Most, however, gave me a card with cash in it. I don't know where that particular tradition originated but it was well known in our families. Maybe it's a Polish thing. I dunno. The point here is that flowers were no longer favored by the time the last relative passed on. I'm certain many florists in the old neighborhood had to close up shop just for that reason.
You did tell me about the carnations in a box previously. Do you happen to have any left? I can use one for tomorrow. LOL February 23, 2021 marks 59 years (pretty sure that''s correct) since the day I first met my wife. We celebrate it every year about as much as we do the wedding. Generally a small gift, if any, such as the flower in a box is given. Since I haven't yet come up with anything, this may be one of those card-only years.
Re: How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
Yeppers, you have it down pat. Except for one thing. Most folks ordered from the florist in the area where they lived, since they usually had a charge account there.
Our normal delivery routes were to all the major funeral homes in a 40 to 50 mile radius of our shop, but we did have a few exceptions where we delivered up to 100 miles.
When I was still young, it was not uncommon to ship flower arrangements in special boxes to rural funeral homes via Bus. It took a special box, and of course the water was drained from the containers before shipping. The funeral homes knew how to unpack these boxes so the flowers were just as the left our shop, and of course they added water back into the containers.
Now if a funeral home ordered more than what would be three Bus shipped boxes, we would deliver them ourselves, because it was cheaper than the bus fare for shipping them.
I'm sure the small local florist got really pissed about us bringing out those huge arrangements and for 1/3 the cost they had to charge for something considerably smaller. But then too, many small florists did not have the capability of making some of the huge arrangements we made. Such as flower covered large throne sized chairs, or 8 feet tall crosses, or some of the large wooden easel sprays we used to make back in the 50's and 60's. By the 70's wood easels were replaced with smaller wire easels, and 4 foot diameter wreaths were now down to only about 2 feet in diameter, hi hi.
One Christmas, for a brand new church, we had to build a 16 foot diameter wreath using artificial greens and flowers so they could reuse it every Christmas. It had to be made in such a way it could be broken down into 6 sections and with a way to store those sections in a single container. We decided to make it break down into 8 sections, but in reality was only 4 separate pieces. Turned out doing it this way them pack smaller, and the storage box was much smaller also. I do know it was in use for over ten years at that church, probably longer, since the way it was packed, it would never get damaged. That is if they packed it back the way it was intended, over the poles provided in the wreath for that purpose.
It was simple really. Each of the 4 sections were made to fold in half, so they were back to back. Then a copper pipes painted green were hidden in the wreath so no pressure was on the artificial greens or flowers in it. So, you fold it in half, set it in the box, and it rested on the vertical copper pipes. Then the second section would be placed over this, the second section had the pipes too, but with a loose fitting pipe fitting that slipped down over the pipes on the one already in the box. Etc. Until all four were stacked on top of each other. Hinges is what allowed them to be folded in half, back against back.
Each piece of greenery was dipped in an adhesive before being stuck into the super dense Styrofoam stem seat. This way they could not turn or come out. It was quite a project building this thing in our limited flower shop space. We used a couple of benches in the greenhouse to make sure it opened up and assembled properly, but the greenery and flowers were done in the flower shop, tying up the two main delivery tables, hi hi.
We closed in 1984, so if I did have any boxes left, they would have dry-rotted by now, hi hi.
Our normal delivery routes were to all the major funeral homes in a 40 to 50 mile radius of our shop, but we did have a few exceptions where we delivered up to 100 miles.
When I was still young, it was not uncommon to ship flower arrangements in special boxes to rural funeral homes via Bus. It took a special box, and of course the water was drained from the containers before shipping. The funeral homes knew how to unpack these boxes so the flowers were just as the left our shop, and of course they added water back into the containers.
Now if a funeral home ordered more than what would be three Bus shipped boxes, we would deliver them ourselves, because it was cheaper than the bus fare for shipping them.
I'm sure the small local florist got really pissed about us bringing out those huge arrangements and for 1/3 the cost they had to charge for something considerably smaller. But then too, many small florists did not have the capability of making some of the huge arrangements we made. Such as flower covered large throne sized chairs, or 8 feet tall crosses, or some of the large wooden easel sprays we used to make back in the 50's and 60's. By the 70's wood easels were replaced with smaller wire easels, and 4 foot diameter wreaths were now down to only about 2 feet in diameter, hi hi.
One Christmas, for a brand new church, we had to build a 16 foot diameter wreath using artificial greens and flowers so they could reuse it every Christmas. It had to be made in such a way it could be broken down into 6 sections and with a way to store those sections in a single container. We decided to make it break down into 8 sections, but in reality was only 4 separate pieces. Turned out doing it this way them pack smaller, and the storage box was much smaller also. I do know it was in use for over ten years at that church, probably longer, since the way it was packed, it would never get damaged. That is if they packed it back the way it was intended, over the poles provided in the wreath for that purpose.
It was simple really. Each of the 4 sections were made to fold in half, so they were back to back. Then a copper pipes painted green were hidden in the wreath so no pressure was on the artificial greens or flowers in it. So, you fold it in half, set it in the box, and it rested on the vertical copper pipes. Then the second section would be placed over this, the second section had the pipes too, but with a loose fitting pipe fitting that slipped down over the pipes on the one already in the box. Etc. Until all four were stacked on top of each other. Hinges is what allowed them to be folded in half, back against back.
Each piece of greenery was dipped in an adhesive before being stuck into the super dense Styrofoam stem seat. This way they could not turn or come out. It was quite a project building this thing in our limited flower shop space. We used a couple of benches in the greenhouse to make sure it opened up and assembled properly, but the greenery and flowers were done in the flower shop, tying up the two main delivery tables, hi hi.
We closed in 1984, so if I did have any boxes left, they would have dry-rotted by now, hi hi.
Re: How To Clear Snow in Kentucky
Most of the funerals I attended as a young man were at one of two funeral homes in my neighborhood. In those days nearly all the relatives lived within a few miles of each other so that the local florists were also close to the funeral homes. Odd as it seems all the aunts and uncles are gone now and most of their children, my cousins, have disappeared into the ether. I keep in touch with two or three and that's only by e-mail on rare occasions. I'm sure a few of them must have died by now and since I was not notified I didn't have to consider sending anything for the funeral or attend personally. It would be nice to know what became of a few of them, but they don't seem to care about finding me either. Family ties certainly aren't what they used to be.
I was only kidding about the flowers, but it is a great idea nonetheless. I didn't get around to finding a card either, but I did bake some Red Velvet White Chocolate cookies for my wife of many years. She appreciates the cookies more than she would a card anyway.
I was only kidding about the flowers, but it is a great idea nonetheless. I didn't get around to finding a card either, but I did bake some Red Velvet White Chocolate cookies for my wife of many years. She appreciates the cookies more than she would a card anyway.