Vertical Clouds

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Kellemora
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Re: Vertical Clouds

Post by Kellemora »

I agree with everything you said about the feds and the states. I also agree several of the states have gone rogue too!

Well, the GPS Maps we have in our on-board road maps are far from correct. Some cities are only updated like every 10 years, and town often make changes that don't appear on those maps for another 10 year cycle.
Especially down here in East Podunk.
I bought a new map for my GPS unit, and found out nothing was changed from my old map for my town of Knoxville. It still wants you to make a left turn at a light that has no left turn, and it would be onto a one-way street with you going the wrong way if you did.
Then they have new exit ramps from the highway in some areas that are still not on the GPS Maps in my wife's Schmart-Fone.
So, if autonomous cars went by the existing maps, they would be going the wrong way on a one-way street, driving off into a ditch where the old exit ramp used to be, etc. ad infinitum.
Debi's GPS shows a whole lot of things my older Garmin does not show, and I've noticed a fair amount of bad data being displayed. Especially regarding the speed limits and stop signs. It shows a stop sign where none ever existed before, and there is none there now. And in another place it shows you to turn right where no street exists, and you are in fact on top of a bridge, hi hi.

On another note: They now have cars that are supposed to be able to parallel park for you. They also tell you the space is not big enough to parallel park your car in. It will tell you this even if you were already in that parking space and pulled out onto the road and decided to back back into the parking space because you wanted to hit another store while there.
And how about the picture of what is in front of you on the road. A tractor pulling a hay wagon is displayed as a tractor trailer trailers back end. Or a guy on a horse is shown as a motorcycle or bicycle, hi hi.
I don't think their computers see what the driver sees, hi hi.
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yogi
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Re: Vertical Clouds

Post by yogi »

You might be thinking of autonomous vehicles in a different sense than I am. Consider modern day military reconnaissance. How do they go about finding an enemy target, move their equipment into the right position, and then send off artillery to exactly strike the target? They don't use Garmin devices nor Google Maps; I can assure you of that. Autonomous vehicles will have all the intelligence it needs to fulfill it's mission. At the moment some of those examples of errors you note are indeed a problem. It's difficult to distinguish a low flying pigeon from a kid chasing a low flying baseball in the middle of the block, something a smart car needs to know if it is to navigate autonomously. That's the kind of problem that needs to be solved instantly and they have ways to do just that. Those ways are not perfect yet, unfortunately. Likewise unpredictable changes in road patterns must be dealt with in real time. Old maps simply won't do. The truth is that they have all the technology they need to talk to satellites and monitor surrounding conditions on a roadway, but it is difficult to fit it into an automobile at a reasonable cost. Well, that is the case today. A few years out it will all be a reality. I think daddy Tesla already has OTR trucks that can do it.
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Kellemora
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Re: Vertical Clouds

Post by Kellemora »

On Interstate Highways, which have a uniform way of marking them, and a uniform way of handling lanes, where the states cannot mess up the patterns used in the design. There an autonomous vehicle could work. But as far as tractor trailers, they would need a location at the edge of an exit ramp to pull into so a human can take over from there to get the load to its destination.

Heck, they might just have robots doing the driving before long. Everyone who could afford it could own their own robots, which could function as a chauffeur, maid, housekeeper, and maybe even as a gourmet chef, hi hi.
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yogi
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Re: Vertical Clouds

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I do believe robots in your home will some day be as common as a dog or cat is today. Getting the bot to drive you to the grocery store, however, will be redundant. The car itself will know how to do that and there will be no need for a driver be it human or robotic. You are correct to point out the interstate highway system is pretty much standardized. That doesn't matter to a truly autonomous vehicle. Think about what autonomous means. It means that the navigation system can do its job without any outside cues, other than it's link to the satellite system of which it is an extension. If there were nothing but autonomous vehicles on the roads today, there would not be a need for highway markings or speed limits for that matter. It would all be controlled automatically. Those road signs are designed for humans. Robotic cars don't need them. As I pointed out above, the big challenge will be teaching the sensing system of automated vehicles how to distinguish between something like a mailbox and a pudgy kid getting ready to jump off the curb without warning. Me getting to your house would be a no-brainer. I'd just tell the car to take me to Gary's place, and voila! :lol:
Last edited by yogi on 19 Nov 2022, 19:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Kellemora
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Re: Vertical Clouds

Post by Kellemora »

I guess you don't remember the Baris Guidance System designed for cars.
It was a great idea and would have prevented almost all accidents.
The idea came from slot cars, but used wires buried in the road and sensors for it to follow the wires.
I don't remember anymore exactly how it worked, but at the time it was a great idea.
Unfortunately, it would have been to expensive to make it work on all roads and right up into your cars garage, hi hi.
If the power to the wires was lost and would not have the tone needed for the sensors to follow the wire and not the reinforcing metal in the concrete, the car would continue in the direction going but slowing down quickly to a stop for the driver to take over manually. And now that I think about it, I think it was a low power but high frequency RF signal used on the wires.

I don't think I will see autonomous cars on the road in my lifetime, perhaps maybe on the Interstates and used by semi trucks, but cars I don't see it much yet.
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yogi
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Re: Vertical Clouds

Post by yogi »

You might not see them on the street you live on, but there already are autonomous vehicles on the road. Most of them are being tested but Mr Tesla is currently, or will be shortly, selling semi's that are autonomous. I don't know how those pilotless trucks would be accepted in city traffic, or even if they would be accepted. Be that as it may, they exist and more are coming.

I only have a vague recollection of the Baris Guidance System. It was a novel idea back in the days, but as you point out it never became practical. In the age of satellite communications and artificial intelligence and machine learning, a lot more can be done than was possible 50 years ago. While I would be impressed if there actually was a safe way to do all this autonomous transporting, I am waiting for the day when my automobile can repair and refuel itself without any intervention by me. LOL
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Kellemora
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Re: Vertical Clouds

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Had the original Interstate System plans been followed, we would have had self-driving cargo trucks or more like rail cars in use for a couple of decades by now. Whether they did it monorail style, or just a ground mounted raised platform they slid over. Both designs were on the plans back then. But neither made it to the finals construction stages.

I can see autonomous semis running on the Interstates to a terminal yard just off the Interstate, but I don't see them on the other roadways for many years to come. Much less backing into some of the kinds of loading docks I had to back into, hi hi.

I honestly thought, back in the 60's, that by the year 1990 or 2000, the speed limits on the roads would have been 200+ mph and accidents would be impossible to happen. Instead we regressed from 70 mph down to 55 mph for years.

What I do expect to see, are nuclear powered cars that have no waste rods. Their power cells will be completely used up so there would be no hazardous waste to deal with. And I'm sure by then, they will all be autonomous.
Then too, we may see much better forms of rapid transit systems, and nobody will have any cars at all, because autonomous shuttles will pick you up at your door and take you to the rapid transit area, or to the store you wanted to go to. But by then too, all shopping will be done on-line and delivered to you within an hour or two.

Shame we won't be here when the aliens take over our transportation and shopping systems, hi hi.
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yogi
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Re: Vertical Clouds

Post by yogi »

Our visions for mass transit are just that, visions. The art of getting around from place to place will change but it can't be determined at this point in time where it will all lead to. We are at the 8 billion mark for population now, and that number will continue to increase into the foreseeable future. As economies grow and countries modernize the need to move around effortlessly will increase. We have a number of technologies available right now to put some of those futuristic ideas into practice. What we don't have is the will or the cash to do it. When the aliens land it won't be any different. They might have better ideas, but the cost and the politics will be difficult to overcome. Besides, I envision the world's human population to become extinct in the not too distant future given climate changes, pandemics, and nuclear bombs. You yourself say there have been many civilizations roaming the earth prior to the present one. Where are they now? I don't know, but it looks like we are going to the same place.
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Kellemora
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Re: Vertical Clouds

Post by Kellemora »

People just move around too much these days as it is.
They used to work in the town where they lived, not umpteen miles away, except in rare cases.
Then big industry began attracting workers from Miles Around, just over the ridge, hi hi.

It is interesting to see all the different types of people archaeologist have discovered, some much older than we ever though of life being on this planet.

If they keep raising taxes, we will go extinct also, hi hi.
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yogi
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Re: Vertical Clouds

Post by yogi »

There is theory called the Great Filter being bantered around in the upper echelons of scientists. It explains why we have not encountered aliens yet. There may in fact be a gazillion exoplanets with conditions suitable to grow human life forms, but they could be suffering from the same maladies that our civilization is confronting these days. There is a general agreement that we are on the path to extinction here on earth, and you yourself have suggested such things happened in the past. The extinction will occur before we perfect long distance space travel, and that may be exactly how other civilizations on other planets have evolved as well. We all blow ourselves up before we can progress to things beyond our local solar systems.

I can go along with that ...
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Kellemora
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Re: Vertical Clouds

Post by Kellemora »

Some scientists think that it is impossible to visit other solar systems outside our own, and that the UFO's we keep seeing and hearing about are actually our own people coming back from the future, mainly just to look and see as tourists and they cannot interact with us. One scientist said, it is possible that if they did land, the people inside would simply cease to exist, since they stepped out of their time capsule. They based this on the wrecked UFO's that never have people in them.

I think their is life on other planets, some way behind us, some way ahead of us, and perhaps a few at our same stage of life as on this planet. I know the new space oriented telescopes are finding out a lot we never knew, like Hubbell and Webb.
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yogi
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Re: Vertical Clouds

Post by yogi »

There is a lot of science fiction involving time travel. In my opinion those Sci Fi concepts have polluted the minds of otherwise rational thinkers in our current time frame. They say time is the 4th dimension, but think about what exactly is a dimension. Have you ever seen a one dimension object? Or, even a two dimension one? You and I have seen representations of such things, but they simply do not exist in the real world. Time is a measurement of duration. It's not a place you can go to see what is or was happening there. In fact if you use the popular notion of time and go back 100 years, where would you be? The earth wasn't anywhere near where it is today 100 years back. All you can safely say is that people were experience earth's reality back then, but "back then" no longer exists. It morphed into what we see before us today. There is nowhere to go back to even if you could travel along the time dimension.

If you want to imagine time travel in a realistic sense, think about the atoms that constitute your present body. Those atoms have been around for billions of years. Where do you suppose they were 100 years ago? 1000 years ago? 1000000 years ago? Do you suppose you can go back to view from whence your atomic particles originated? Of course not. Time is like that one dimensional object. It exists as a concept, but it's a relative measurement. Don't get me started on how your time is not the same as my time because we are in two different places traveling at different rates of speed through the universe. LOL
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Kellemora
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Re: Vertical Clouds

Post by Kellemora »

I agree that Time is a Man-Made Construct. Does Time even really exist at all?
That second we lived a second ago is long gone, never to be recovered, and the next second has not happened yet.

Then there are those that say past, present, and future all exist at the same time.

But then, what if Time is actually something physical? What if it was like a huge Ring, and you could move to different parts of that Ring?

Each planet spins at a different speed, so what might be one day on earth, might be 50 years on another planet. That is if they determine time by the revolutions of their planet. Sure would drive an interstellar watch salesman crazy, hi hi.

I believe there is Time, because nothing happens instantly. If it did, an hourglass would be useless, hi hi.
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yogi
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Re: Vertical Clouds

Post by yogi »

Yes there is such a thing as time. It is in fact a critical dimension. Then, too, so is width, length, and depth. They are all dimensions to measure things in our physical world. Those things do in fact exist in real form (no matter how you define real), but their dimensions do not exist as a separate object. Dimensions are properties that objects possess and indeed man made for their own convenience.

Time, I insist, is a measure of duration, nothing else. It is also relative. If there was nothing else in the universe but you, there would be no reference point and thus no time to be measured. You would exist as a single point in space. Just ask Einstein about his theory of relativity. Oh wait, he is long gone. LOL But his theory is still around.

If you want to bend your mind a bit, let us say that the ultimate measure of time is the well known constant we know as the speed of light: 299 792 458 m / s. Thus no matter how those aliens might reference their time zone, all us other critters in the universe would coordinate with them in terms of the speed of light because that is a universal constant.

Light is pretty interesting stuff and the speed at which it travels through space is used to measure objects of cosmic proportions. We know that the distance to stars can be stated in terms of light years, i.e. the amount of time it takes for light to get here from there. Our own sun, for example, is 8 minutes of light speed away from us. It could blow up and disappear and we would not know about it until 8 minutes after the fact.

Now focus on the Webb telescope images obtained not too long ago. That telescope detected a galaxy some 13 billion light years away from us. They figure it was among the first ones to ever be created. Think about that. The Webb telescope has taken pictures of something that happened at the beginning of our universe as we know it. Does that mean we have traveled back in time to witness that distant galaxy's formation?

Are you done thinking about it?

That telescope did not go back in time to capture the images. It did intercept light waves (and other radiation) from an event that happened 13 billion years ago. That event no longer exists - you know, something must have changed over those 13 billion years. Not only does that photographed galaxy not exist anymore, it's not in the same place in the universe as it was when it spewed out the light for us to see. That stream of light is not a path going back along the dimension of time. It's simply emissions from an event that happened a long long time ago.

So, no, there is no way to traverse the dimension of time. We can see it in action, but it does not lend itself to be traveled upon.
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Kellemora
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Re: Vertical Clouds

Post by Kellemora »

Many of Einsteins theories have been proven time and again, including some of the new ones they finally found to be correct as well.

Agreed on the speed of light being a uniform constant everywhere in the universe, but it can be bent, hi hi.

I also agree that what the telescopes are seeing, is things long since past, and some day those light waves will eventually reach us and they will appear to be a current event to us, although they happened billions of years ago.
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yogi
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Re: Vertical Clouds

Post by yogi »

I hope y'all had a pleasant Thanksgiving Day. Since the days of the great pandemic we have grown accustomed to not going anywhere outside of O'Fallon to celebrate. That suits me fine. LOL We went over to Fresh Thyme (an organic food shop) to get some fruit and were surprised at the heat-and-eat variety of foods they had. Wife bought a small turkey breast that will take only about an hour to bake, some stuffing, some sweet potatoes, and Tiramisu for desert. All that should go over well for just the two of us.

On that same trip we went to my favorite butcher shop to restock our freezer. To be honest I don't recall what a slab of baby back ribs cost last year, but the ones I got yesterday were $29 for about 13 ribs. That's quite expensive but we don't have that meal very often. Aged NY Strip was going for $19/lb. The good news is that gas is now less than $3/gal at the local Mobile station. Funny how those prices dropped more than 30 cents since the election. :grin:
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Kellemora
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Re: Vertical Clouds

Post by Kellemora »

We had a good thanksgiving. Debi's sister and hubby came over, and her niece stopped by for a bit, but had to leave to go to work.

My favorite ribs are called Spare Ribs, and they are almost impossible to find down south here for some reason.
What they call Baby Back only cost around 9.99 a pound down here at the store we shop at.

Well, Biden did use up a lot of our Reserve Fuel supply to try and fool the public and sway their votes.
As far as gas prices dropping, folks are just not traveling right now, so supply and demand, with demand down, they drop the prices to sell more. It's always been like that! But they can only try that for so long, because they still have all their expenses and low volume sales will force them to up the price again, especially since we are paying top dollar for OPEC oil.

The Demonrats BLOCKED Trump from topping off our Reserves at 24 bucks a barrel.
And Now Biden is buying it at 85 bucks a barrel. Makes one wonder who's side the Demonrats are on.
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yogi
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Re: Vertical Clouds

Post by yogi »

There is a phenomena in economics called supply and demand. Right now the demand for oil, gasoline in particular, is low and the inventories are high. That's the formula for lower prices at the retail level. The timing of the current price drop is suspect from my point of view. I could be wrong but it seemed as if the prices were held artificially high to make some kind of statement about inflation. The Wednesday following the elections the prices normalized. Amazing, huh?

Spare ribs, from what I understand, is the lowest portion of the rib cage and back ribs are up on top. Back when I lived at home mom would always make spare ribs, probably because they were cheap. Wife and I favor back ribs because they tend to be meatier than the St Louis or spare rib cuts. Sometimes they almost seem like pork chops, which I suppose is part of the reason why they are so expensive.
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Kellemora
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Re: Vertical Clouds

Post by Kellemora »

Hmm, I may be wrong, but I though Baby Back Ribs came from a cow, and Spare Ribs from a Pig.
I just looked it up, I WAS wrong, hi hi. Both cuts come from a Pig.
SHORT RIBS is what comes from a cow, hi hi.

I just loved the taste of Spare Ribs, and the shape of the bones as well.
There was always an area at the tip of the rib that was close to 3/4 inch thick, lots of meat there.

I do remember when we had our own Sows and they would dress them in the ramp area down to the boiler room. They always sold the upper part of the ribs, and kept the lower part for us. They also sold the high ham, and we got the lower ham, which was smaller and had part of the back leg. Apparently they made good money from those upper portions, and from the pork bellies as well. What we got as bacon was actually the lower end of the neck I think, because it didn't sell well.
But, when you are raised on something, although it may be the cheaper cuts, that is the flavor you come to love the most.
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yogi
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Re: Vertical Clouds

Post by yogi »

You are right about the origins of ribs. The texture of the rib meat from sows is nothing like that from beef cattle. While back ribs rank high up there on our favorite foods list, I have a killer recipe for short ribs too. Around here short ribs are sold two ways, with and without the bone. The claim is that the bone adds flavor and makes them superior to the boneless variety. That may be true, but the flavor comes from the fat and gristle attached to the bone. Short ribs without the bone and done in the crock pot can be eaten without using a knife. Not so with the rib bone still in.

You are right again about the cheaper cuts of meat frequently tasting better than those nearby expensive cuts. Again the reason for that is the fat content. Fat adds flavor, but could be difficult to chew. Those old timer's aren't too worried about how long it takes to chew a bite of meat, unless they have dentures, of course. However, those cheaper cuts do not have the same texture as the prime parts of the animal. A lot of that prime meat can be eaten without cooking it, and in some places that is actually done as a delicacy.

Back in the old neighborhood there was a Polish deli that sold a lot of imported meat. Poland is indeed famous for it's pork, which is too expensive to buy now and days. Regardless, that deli sold end pieces of the pork bellies and called it slab bacon. There were several varieties of that' so called slab, but none of them actually took on the shape of a slab of pork. They truly looked like waste or end cuts that could not be sold any other way. Then, right here in good ol" Missouri I can buy hog jowls. They look suspicious to me but a friend of mine told me how to make them. She claims there is nothing better. Well, she is classic hillbilly and eats things I didn't realize you could buy. Some day I'll probably buy a pack of jowls just to see what she is talking about.
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