Pencil Sharpener

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Kellemora
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by Kellemora »

We did have a lot of phun watching them tear it down. It had a tile roof also, and from what I could tell just watching them work on getting it down. It looks like they intended to knock out the top of the top floor to let the roof fall into the house.
They busted out between the windows first, then kept working closer and closer to the corners, and that's when they hit those big I-beams, hi hi. Almost all of the upper floor walls were gone, and that roof still stood solid as a rock.
They tore away all the brick and concrete from around those metal I-Beams, 2 near each corner of the front section of the house, then wrapped something around them that looked like rope or cable, but must have been some type of primer cord I guess. They hit a button and those beams just cut themselves in half, with only a small bang, so I can't say it was like an explosive. Even after that, they still had to use a bulldozer to push the roof off the cut I-beams, and that's when they broke the first bulldozer. That roof came down alright and snapped the bucket right off the front of that dozer, hi hi.
After that, it was just knocking walls inward, and scooping away the debris.

You should have seen how they tore down the greenhouses. They hooked chains to all the metal pipework inside, pulled the steam pipes out first, then pulled the main framing until the whole thing collapsed, but sorta fell over like a drunk sailor. Then it was just scooping it all up. All of the raised benches in the greenhouses were solid concrete, so they had a lot of scooping and hauling away to do. All the metal was loaded onto flatbeds, so I imagine it was sold for scrap steel.

They built a new water tower near us, mainly to supply water to the four apartment complexes they built up there.
But when they tied it into the mainline that served all the older houses, the plumbers had a hayday replacing broken water pipes in many of those houses. A few were able to sue the city over it, but not most of them. Apparently they were told in their water bill what was going on and to have a regulator installed, since the mainline pressure would be double of what it has been for 50 years, hi hi. They also had the mainline break in a few places also, hi hi.
Where I live, water pressure is maintained by pumps at the water companies area distribution pumps, and they only have it pumping up to around 35 psi where I'm at.
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yogi
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by yogi »

Building something like a house has to bring a great deal of satisfaction when it's completed. However, watching a building being demolished has its own kind of coolness about it. That's particularly true when it all goes to plan, but apparently that didn't happen with that big old house you describe. I would think a tile roof would need a lot more support than regular shingles, but it would not occur to me to put steal beams in the corners. Much less two beams in each corner. LOL I bet the guy in the tractor was impressed when the roof chopped off the bucket on his dozer. He was darn lucky to get out of that alive. I also like the idea of concrete work benches in the green houses. I can't think of anything more suitable. If there is something like reincarnation and previous life's, I am certain your family was there when they built those pyramids. They still are standing after thousands of years.

The water pressure in this O'Fallon house is one of the better features associated with living here. The quality of the water, however, is somewhat suspect. I don't know from where they get it, but I've read where some neighbors see brown and yellowish water from time to time. There also tends to be an excessive amount of bacteria that builds up in the toilet and sometimes in the bathtub. We never had that problem in the previous house, but that water came from Chicago's super filtration plant. I'm guessing we get a lot of well water around here. Then again, I don't see as much calcium build up in O'Fallon as I did up north. It just goes to show that there is no place with perfectly clean water.
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Kellemora
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by Kellemora »

Like most other greenhouses of that era, even the expensive ones like we had, most were built using Cypress lumber for the benches, often just sitting on top of concrete blocks. Very high maintenance for sure. Cypress was also used for the rails that held the glass, because it weathers very well for that purpose, not so well for flower benches.
The original building great-grandpa built for The Wayside Market in the mid-1800s, was still standing and in daily use when the place was sold and bulldozed over in 1984. My great-grandpa knew how to make the best concrete. Remember, he got his start cracking rock for road building for 12-1/2 cents per day wages. So he was not afraid of work. He also passed all of his skills on to my grandpa.
We were not rich like many folks thought we were. Grandpa put all of his profits back into the business, and building everything to last for centuries, that is if it wasn't torn down or burned down. He did things in a big way, which gave the appearance of being rich. I mean, just look at his house, 18 rooms, and a basement under a basement in part of the house, used as flower coolers. It was the most expensive to build house in a 30 mile radius, but then too, he and his workers did most of the work. Sure, they bought the tile for the roof, and imported the face for his fireplace. But when everyone else was still using outhouses, he had exquisite bathrooms, with large tubs, etc. But after always putting his money into building the best, which included the greenhouses he built, he rarely had enough money left over to buy his daily bucket of warm Bach Beer, hi hi.
As far as the flower benches went. They were on reinforced and poured concrete pillars, with specially made side pieces, and even more specially made end pieces. I remember watching them make the forms and pouring those concrete end pieces for our third new greenhouse.
I just wish after he passed away that his sons would have continued to expand the business, rather than keep it just the way grandpa left it, none of his sons were go-getters like he was, that's for sure.
I do know from old family records and business receipts, when grandpa built the second large greenhouse, he bought an entire railroad car of Portland Cement. Most of which were used to build the new greenhouse, and the rest was used to renovate both of his early small greenhouses so they would all have the same style of benches.
The original building that was The Wayside Market, became the packaging room for shipping. The back-side of this original market slab was dock-high, and the front was walk-in. His first two small greenhouses were built at each end of this long market building.

Not to be funny here, but St. Charles County does not use near the amount of Chlorine in their supply water as they do in St. Louis County, and down here in Knoxville, KUB uses even more Chlorine than St. Louis County uses.
Most older houses had steel pipes, and if someone does not use a lot of water to get that calcium buildup inside the pipes, you will get rusty water when you use a pipe that sat for along time. Also, anytime they do work on the mainline piping you are going to get water with high turbidity in it.
But don't get me going on the false claims made by KUB that they've never had a negative pressure on any of their pipes.
They may not have down at the pumping station. But when you live at the top of a mountain, and they have a waterline break. If you open your faucet, air goes into the spout instead of water coming out, as what is in the pipes up here is draining downhill to the broken pipe. That is negative pressure! They do close a valve beyond a break to prevent the entire mountainside from losing water out the break, but they deny ever having negative pressure on the system, hi hi.
They are also big on anti-siphon valves as well. Better have them on all outdoor faucets or they will fine you 500 bucks.
I solved that problem by removing all the outdoor faucets! I hook my hose up inside the small basement access door now.
We too, on rare occasion get tan looking water, but it is rare, and normally only after a major repair was made somewhere between our house and the main pumping station.
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yogi
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by yogi »

A long long time ago I read that house mortgages in Europe tend to be issued for 100 year terms. The homes are mostly family owned and the mortgages get passed down to future generations. That's an interesting finance concept and I'm not sure they still do it, but it tells me that the homes being mortgaged for that amount of time are built to outlast the mortgage term. No doubt your great-grandfather came from that stock of house builders. The super concrete that your grandpa made was most likely due to the Portland cement he purchased. It's difficult, if not impossible, to get cement from Portland these days and it may not be the same quality as it was 100 years ago. A lot of the strength and durability of the concrete is due to the cement.

You must be right about St Charles County skimping on the chlorine. I came from a place where the water was filtered right in the lake (Michigan) itself. Not only did it smell like a swimming pool most of the time, it also had a bunch of other chemicals added to it, such as fluoride. Say what you will about the dental benefits of fluoride but every one of my teeth have fillings, if they don't have root canals and caps. All I drank for 72 years was this healthy Chicago water. Our fridge here has a water filter built into it - probably the only good thing about this noisy GE fridge. It does a great job of keeping the water clear and odor free. To be honest I've never noticed the tap water to be foul, but once in a while brown water will come out of the garden hoses. I figure that is being generated by standing water for extended periods of time.

The CIty of O'Fallon requires me to have my irrigation system checked annually for backflow issues. It costs $80 each spring. If I don't have it done and claim I don't use the system, they will come out ant turn off the water supply.. I guess it's better to be safe than sorry, but that safety is costing me a bunch of Jefferson's each year. Last year the landscaping company decided the pressure valves were not passing whatever test they applied. That cost me nearly $200 to replace. I actually used the system twice this year so that I don't feel as if I'm getting my money's worth. However, taking the system out so that O'Fallon won't have fits will be more expensive than it's worth. But, the water here on my 1/4 acre is visibly clean.
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Kellemora
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by Kellemora »

I think in my grandfathers case it had to do with he was terrified of fire and tornado's. I also think his fear of tornado's is why he built the type of greenhouses he built. They may lose their glass, but that framework wasn't going anywhere, hi hi. In 71 years of having glass greenhouses, we were only hailed out twice.

You are correct about the Portland Cement, what they sell today is nothing like what they had 50 or 100 years ago.
Grandpa built a few concrete things without using Portland Cement, made his own by grinding limestone to a powder and adding lime, and then the aggregate of course. It's how he made the foundations for a few things and they held up just fine for around 50 years or so.

The chlorine in the water down here is so high, you had better turn on the bathroom vent while taking a shower. Makes me dizzy if I'm in there too long. Sometimes when the only thing I do is fill the mop bucket or dog water container from the tub spout, the chlorine almost gets to me. I liked our St. Louis County water, didn't mind drinking it.
Our LG fridge that died within a couple of years had a filtered water and ice dispenser. The one we have now does have a filter for the ice, but no water dispenser.
Right after moving down here, I bought a fancy water filter that removed nearly everything. It had a multistage filter for heavy metals, chemicals, etc. A three cylinder system, but the water was first treated with UV light in one cylinder, then shot with Ozone in the last cylinder. Expensive little thing, but the water from it tasted great. The only drawback is when you remove so much from the water, bacteria can build up in the tube to the water dispenser part of the unit. So any time I had to replace one of the filters, I also replaced this tube with a new one. Oh, and the compressed carbon filter was silver impregnated as well, another thing that made it so expensive. Silver kills bacteria too.

That's another reason I no longer have outdoor faucets!
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yogi
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by yogi »

The first house I owned was about 2 miles away from the Des Plaines River. That river had a long history of overflowing it's banks when the weather got too wet. Most of the roads crossing over the river were elevated by the time I left that house, but there was a time or two that the bridges were dry but the roads approaching the bridges were unpassable. Just about every other year we would read stories about people living close to the river banks and getting flooded out. I can't imagine what kind of insurance those folks had because they always seemed to rebuild after a flood and move back in. As I said, that river and the flood water was about two miles away, but one year the flood water came within a few blocks of my house. I had to cross that river to get to work and needed to go several miles out of my way to the tollway system in order to get to Motorola. It took about a month for all the roads to become usable again, and it left me scarred for life. I've had an irrational fear of flood water ever since, in spite of the fact we remained high and dry. Oddly enough, we are about that same two miles away from the Missouri River these days. There have been flooded roads but nothing serious like that Des Plaines river. And, I know I've mentioned this before, any puddles that do form go away pretty quickly in this subdivision.

This house is built into the side of a hill. If the street did flood the water would go around our house on it's way to the row houses down the hill from me. Plus I have a walk out basement. Any water in there would not fill up the basement, which is not to say there could be no damage done but it would be minimal. Been here six years and have not heard the sump pump go off even once. So, while nothing is perfect, I feel pretty comfortable living in this particular location. At least I doubt we could ever be under water for several weeks as was the possibility up north. The only other fortifications I would like are similar to what your grandparents did. I'd love to have at least 12 inch concrete/rock outer walls and a tiled roof. Maybe some copper gutters as long as I'm going whole hog. LOL The thick rock walls would act like a thermal heat sink. It would keep things warm in the winter and cool in the summer. The tiles on the roof would forego any hail damage and be easy enough to replace if any wind could possibly remove them. I'd also like a turret on the southeast corner of this house. I'd have a lovely view of O'Fallon and can watch the sunrise in style while eating breakfast.

I thought about getting a water filtration system, but we personally have not had any problems with the water. The tower is in plain sight from my deck which might help keep things clean. There are some very old pipes in the original section of town but that is all south and east of the tower. I might change my mind if the water turns rancid some day, but for now it seems like an unnecessary expense.
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Kellemora
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by Kellemora »

In Missouri, you cannot build a house anywhere on a flood plain. A few folks years earlier built little fishing cabins, but once they are gone, they cannot build again.
Some big developer managed to get a subdivision built in a flood plain by driving piers into the ground to bedrock, and basically building the houses on stilts so to speak, so the bottom of the house was 5 feet above the 100 year flood height.
This is the same developer who managed to get Earth City built!

My uncle Andy built a house out in Fenton, MO. They had electric out there, but no gas or water, so all the houses had a cistern under their back porch. He was near the top of the grade where the houses were built, so his septic tank and field system were in his backyard, and there were no houses above him. This was a good thing, because heavy rains caused most of the septic tank fields not to drain because the ground was overly saturated from the rain.
After the city installed water lines, he knocked out the wall in the basement to the cistern and made it into a root cellar.
Then a couple of years later, they installed a sewer system, and since his house was up on the hill and no-one around him, he had to pay to have the lateral run all the way down to the sewer system, and it took more than twice as much pipe as the distance to the sewer, because every 20 feet they had to run a horizontal pipe to slow down the water flow. Because of this, there was a vent stack right before his lower property line, and another one right below his neighbors property line, and those neighbor kids were always dropping things down into that vent stack, and one day managed to clog it up.
He didn't worry about it too much, because the vent stack just inside his property line was lower than his basement floor, so water would come out there and run down the neighbors yard with the kids who clogged it up in the first place.
He moved before anything was ever done about it, all the way to Florida for a while, hi hi.

After our big fancy water filtration system went south. Debi has been using these pitchers to filter the water through compressed carbon blocks. She was raised on well water, so cannot stand the taste of chlorinated water, no matter how clean it is.
I bought her a tabletop ice maker when the LG fridge went south, but was still cooling some. She's been using it ever since, even though the new fridge has an ice maker. She even filters the water she uses in it, hi hi.
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yogi
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by yogi »

The GE fridge we have dispenses water and makes Ice. It can be crushed or cubed. Odd as it seems, hot water is also available for using K-Cups to make coffee. A special K-cup adapter must be set in place if you want to make a hot beverage, however. There is also a water filter about the size of a toilet paper core. The fridge stops dispensing water when the filter needs to be replaced. I've had my doubts about that filter because it's exactly like HP selling the ink for their printers. It's a perpetual maintenance game. However, the water from the fridge is verifiably different. The filter is passive and probably only has charcoal in it. I use it for drinking water but cooking is done with regular kitchen sink water.

I have only had a few occasions to sample well water and it tasted terrible each time. Chlorine isn't the sweetest stuff to put in water, but the well water I had seemed to have a high sulfur content. At least it smelled that way. O'Fallon water is part well water from what I understand but the ratio has changed in recent years. I would guess it comes from St Louis mostly but there may be other filtration plants in between. One of the nice things O'Fallon does for me is give me a 20% discount on the price of their water just because I'm an old guy. Of course I had to prove it to them when I applied because ... well ... apparently I don't look old. The discount is only on the water. Taxes are applied before the discount and whatever other miscellaneous fees they decided to tack on. Be that all as it may, it's a nice feature. I wasn't offered that kind of discount back in Illinois.

I don't know about the laws in Illinois, but the insurance people there will not issue you a policy for anything built on a flood plane. That effectively stops people from doing such things. I don't know what the laws were 50 years ago but flood planes didn't seem to stop a lot of folks from building on them. It's just asking for trouble and I don't understand why anyone would want to do it.
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Kellemora
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by Kellemora »

Our LG fridge only had water and the ice could be two sizes of cubes or crushed. No hot water about it.
We could reset the filter timer simply by opening the door, popping out the filter, and putting it back in again.

Where the well is makes a big difference. The well water at great-grandpa's house was excellent.
The well water at Debi's sisters house, before the moved in town had a very slight iron taste to it, but not if they ran it through the countertop filter first. Now they only use spring water, even though they have piped in water. Her husband has a couple of big barrels he goes and lets fill up at a public spring.

We can get a senior discount on water here too, but it's not worth bothering with as little as we use. You have to renew every year, and if you use over a certain amount, the discount doesn't apply. But our sewer bills is the biggie down here, 4 times higher than the water bill.

Same in Missouri, no flood insurance is available, even if you are not in a flood plain.
My brothers fishing cabin sat over 15 feet in the air on 8 6x6 wood frames, and they were all tied together at the 4 and 8 foot heights above the slab, and had diagonal boards on both sides and one end. The other end was open like a garage. But above 8 foot they had diagonal boards one ever space between the posts.
Didn't stop a tree from falling onto his roof doing a lot of damage though. He fixed it back up and eventually sold it.
Several people lived down there year round, although they were not supposed to use them as primary residences.
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yogi
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by yogi »

We could get something like flood insurance in Illinois, but it was very limited in what it would cover. It was something like they would cover damage if the sump pump failed but would not cover the same damage if the stream out back got into the basement somehow. It was the same with earthquake riders. We felt a very very minor tremor the year we moved into the last house, but nothing since. All the quaking earth was down in southern Illinois and I don't know that any damage was ever recorded to property in that state. Be that as it may, I could by earthquake insurance on that old house.

The first year in that last house gave us mostly well water. Then the village made a deal with the city of Chicago and we got 90% city water afterwards. The price went up about the same 90%. I vaguely recall the bad aroma and taste of water that first year. We bought bottled water for drinking for quite a while. You are surely correct to point out that the ground water is dependent upon what is in the ground. After all it's the soil itself that acts like a filter. The main water filtration plant is located off shore about a mile or so into Lake Michigan. There were a few years when consumption increased and rainfall decreased so that the shoreline was receding back out toward the filtration plant. A lot of discussion was had about what could be done if that plant were suddenly high and dry. By the time we left town the levels were no longer in the danger zone. I don't see how one lake could supply enough water for several million people, but that is exactly what is going on in Lake Michigan.
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Kellemora
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by Kellemora »

I couldn't get flood insurance, but I did have water damage insurance, and even though I got flooded out twice, both times it was water that came in through the sewer system from illegal dumping of rainwater into the sewers by a couple of building contractors building office buildings. So the insurance company didn't cover a dang thing.
When I had to replace the lateral after the second flood, I had them install a one-way valve in my sewer line. All it was was a section of pipe with a flapper in it that would close over a ring seal inside the pipe. Sorta like a foot valve in a way. We never got flooded after that, but then I don't know if there was ever another backup on the mainline sewer system.

Our mortgage lender had their own policy also, but it only covered catastrophic loss of the dwelling.

FWIW: Each person in a household uses on average 800 gallons of water per month.
Ironically, when broken down to Genders, a man only uses about 450 gallons a month, and a woman 950 gallons a month.
I think that was based on households with 2 men, vs households with 2 women, to get the average.
Older married couples only use around 1,400 gallons per month.
What I don't understand about Water Bills is, 1 Cubic Foot is only 7.5 gallons roughly.
Yet the Water Bill shows like 1,500 gallons used, total 2 Cubic Feet. Wait I looked it says 2ccuft.
OK CCF is 100 cu ft. but 1ccf is 748 gallons. Very confusing, hi hi.
Lake Michigan is around 5,000 ckm and 1 ckm of water is 2.642e+11 gallons, in other words, a very large number, hi hi.
So 2 million people wouldn't even make a dent in the amount of water in that lake, hi hi.
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yogi
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by yogi »

Water Bill
Water Bill
WaterBill.jpg (120.45 KiB) Viewed 62 times
This is my latest water bill. It claims that we used 89 gallons of water over the previous 63 days. Amazing, eh?

The truly amazing part of this bill is the usage history. This August we used fully half as much water as we did last year at this time. I don't have a clue why that would be the case because all of last year I only used the irrigation system a few times. This year I've only used it twice. So, I don't get what O'Fallon is doing here. Regardless of their cryptic method of reporting, it looks as if wife and I combined use about 30 (300?) gallons of water per summer month. Why that would increase during Fall and early Winter is a mystery. I would think the usage would go down over the winter.

I can see why the insurance people would be reluctant to pay for your flood damages. If some contractor was acting illegally that would not be covered by any insurance. You would have to sue the contractor in that case and collect damages from them. I understand that insurance people don't like to pay death benefits to suicide victims for the same reason. Suicide is murder, self-inflicted but still, and anything illegal is not covered by insurance.
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Kellemora
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by Kellemora »

Perhaps you did something like hose off the driveway, or washed the cars a couple of times before winter set in?
Outside water usually runs a whole lot faster than anything inside, except for the tub spout, all the rest of the faucets are usually slow flow.

Our water bill used to show us a whole year plus two months of water usage. Now it only shows the same month last year, on water, sewer, and electric. We are billed monthly from KUB, the U stands for Unreliable, hi hi.

Oh, those of us with water damage from both faux pas, did get together and tried to sue the contractors of the buildings.
We got nowhere, because they said they contract out waste plumbing work to other companies.
But we did have our biggest lawsuit against the medical building builder for allowing storm water to enter the sewer system through negligence. Our lawyer thought we had a really good case against them. But their lawyers got it thrown out as An Act of God. Saying they could not control the blowing rain, that swept through their building with no sides on it yet. And they did have tarps up on the prevailing sides as was required by the city codes. Nevertheless, they are supposed to CAP the sanitary sewer pipes until the walls are up. But here too, they said that was not required by code. Now the City itself did go after them for not installing the Tumbling Basin as required, and for tying into the residential waste line instead of the commercial waste line, but we saw no money the city collected from the fines.

My dad had some small water leakage in his basement, coming from under the floor. So he did something that was probably illegal, but did it anyhow. About an inch or two above the water level in the traps in the floor drains, he drilled some 3/8 inch holes through the cast iron pipe. Started with only one in each drain, then at the far end of the basement, he added to more 3/8 inch holes in that floor drain. We never had water seep into the basement after that, so he was pleased. And the inspectors when mom sold the house never noticed them, so the house sold with no problems. And it has been well over 10 years ago now, so they can no longer come back at mom, who is no longer with us anyhow.
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yogi
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by yogi »

You are very correct about outside water flowing at nearly unrestricted rates. The irrigation system normally has a huge impact on the usage but for the last three years I've not been using that system very much at all. The bill does not reflect reality in that the numbers are missing some kind of multiplier. I use more than what is stated on the bill just to cook food. The only other use of water is in the bathrooms. One shower alone has to consume at least half that "89" gallon figure they claim I used over two months. And we do take more than two showers in that amount of time. LOL

I certainly don't know a lot about building contractors, but I do know somebody has to be responsible for what goes on during the construction phase of a project. That somebody should have been responsible for preventing water to flood your basements. I guess it boils down to who has the shrewdest lawyers. Having a good lawyer is probably more valuable than having good insurance.

In other news, it was 55 years ago on this date that my wife and I were married. It certainly doesn't seem like it has been that long. Next weekend my youngest granddaughter will be getting married up near Chicago. Before you know it she will have children of her own, and then we can take one of those 4 generation pictures. That is an assumption, of course, because the other two granddaughters never married nor had any offspring. Why this last one decided to go the traditional route is beyond me. Well, maybe not too traditional. The wedding will be outdoors in a forest somewhere and while she will be wearing a classic wedding dress we were told to dress casual. Boho style. This would not be the first wedding I attended outdoors and casual, but it's likely to be the last. I should not be too surprised about all this because this gal's mom, my second daughter, was married on an ice rink in full skating garb. We sat in the penalty box to watch it all. LOL No, I'm not kidding.
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Kellemora
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by Kellemora »

Our water is billed in ccf, with a minimum purchase of 1 ccf per month, the base rate, and our bill is usually for 2 ccf each month.

When they build a commercial building, naturally after the floors are poured, all the waste plumbing is installed, often before the roof goes on. This means if it rains while that building is open, it is catching one heck of a lot of water. No problem if it feeds into the commercial sewer system, but when they hook it up to the small residential sewer system, and also make the connection backwards like the bank did, there is no place for the water to go except into the basements of the houses on that line. We got 6 feet of water in our basement when they were building the bank, and about 4 feet of water when they were building the medical building, and this is the one that destroyed our lateral at the same time.
At least I had insurance on the lateral line. I bought it just after an inspection showed some hairline cracks in the clay pipe, and the insurance was cheap to, only like 16 bucks a year, added to my house insurance. Now the lateral line did get paid for mostly by the insurance company. I did have to pay a little bit myself, because my lateral line went below 15 feet down. But if I recall, it wasn't much, only like 150 bucks of a 2000 dollar project.

Wow, congratulations on your 55th anniversary!
I went to a friends wedding over at St. Louis International Raceway. We raced together so he invited me and my wife.
Each stood outside their race cars for most of the wedding ceremony, but after they exchanged vows, and before the announcement of husband and wife, the got into their cars. The preacher stood in front of the cars and said, I now pronounce you man and wife, you may now start your engines. The preacher then slipped back into the covered island behind the cars and pressed the button to start the Christmas Tree.
Both cars had tin cans and shoes tied to the back, and at the end of the race, where the display showed they Both Won, hi hi, they pulled the cars off to where you normally turn to come back to the pits area. But instead they hopped into a Limo waiting down there, and it sped off and out to the highway. The advertising sign said, off fast to their honeymoon.
After that, the normal days races started and most of the folks stayed for them.

I was married to Marsha for 13 years, Barbara for about 5 minutes, Ruth for 20 years, and Debi and I are on our 21st anniversary. I took Marsha back four different times after she took off. The last time she took off, she gave me the divorce papers but never finished up on them. So after I knew she was never coming back, I finally had my attorney get it done. That's when I finally married Ruth. Ruth and I were married for like 2 years before I was married to Barbara, retroactive to before her death and before my marriage to Ruth, all on paper only, and then her death ended the marriage 5 minutes later. This was done so Barbara's kids had a legal parent step-parent who could sign their college papers. After Ruth passed away I met Debi and we got married shortly thereafter. I always joke that we had to get married. But not for the reason you think. I just couldn't afford the 1,800 mile round trip every other weekend to go on dates with her, hi hi.
Turns out, she has been the very best of the lot of them too, so I lucked out this time, big time!
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yogi
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by yogi »

I didn't realize you could get married retroactively, but as I noted earlier having the right lawyers on your team can accomplish just about anything. Totaling up all those years of you were married to different women adds up to about the same total for me with one woman. When I was of dating age I didn't do a lot of it. While I enjoyed being with the opposite sex, it was difficult even then for me to adjust quickly to changes. When I met my wife-to-be for the first time I came home from that party knowing she was the one and it was going to be a lifetime adventure. I was very fortunate to be able to keep her with me all that time. She has always been very good to me and I doubt that I could find anybody else to fill in the void if she were gone. That's a common thought us old folks have, but I was thinking that way well before we decided to make it all legal.

We dined at a place that originally was established in our old neighborhood up near Chicago. The owner now has several restaurants by the same name and four of them are within 20 minutes of this Missouri home. It is a pretty upscale chain and would not think it could do well in this market, but what do I know about running a business? The dinner was perfect and in some respects felt as if we went back home to celebrate.

About the only thing more weird than getting married on an ice rink is getting married on a race track. LOL That's one amazing story and I bet the local newspapers had a field day with it.
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Kellemora
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by Kellemora »

Apparently a judge figured out how to do it so it would be legal, at least for around 5 minutes, hi hi.
Barbara and I dated for around 2 years all total, got engaged and got our first marriage license at around the 8 month mark.
Then the doc found she had cancer, so she called it off. The doc were able to remove the cancer, and after 6 months of chemo gave her the all clear. So we went and got another marriage license, and before we got the date set in stone, the doc found something else wrong, so once again she cancelled. Didn't want to burden me. But after a few months, we decided to go ahead and get married anyhow and set a date, got things ready, then got our third marriage license. This time her blood test showed up something really strange, so back to the doc again. She had a rare disease called A-Typical Gulyian Barr we called Guyon Beret. This put her into a wheelchair almost right away, and into the hospital in a month. Ironically, that is not what killed her, the autopsy showed she died from black lung disease of all things. Strange for someone who never smoked or worked outside of the house, and no one smoked in her house either. But she did have candles burning all the time, sometimes dozens at a time.
I agreed to be the foster parent for her children, who were at that time all in high school. My home became their permanent address of record.
A few months later I married Ruth. Which is also a story unto itself, hi hi.
But when the oldest started college, everything was OK up until her Junior year, and when the younger started college, same problem as with the older one, only a parent could sign certain papers they had to have.
Ruth and I were married just shy of two years by that time, and although I was a Foster Parent, that did not make me a legal guardian suitable to sign the paperwork the colleges required.
We talked to Ruth's cousin, an attorney about what could be done. He didn't know, but did put us into contact with a judge, who I told my whole story to. He called back about three days later and said he has a way to make me a legal guardian, actually by making me a step-parent. He looked over all three of the marriage licenses we obtained, and the reason they expired. And obtained Barbara's death certificate, and Ruth and I's marriage license. He said we have an open window here I can use. I can perform the wedding vows for you to marry Barbara, and the marriage will dissolve on her death. All this paperwork for the sole purpose of making me the Step-Parent of Barbara's kids which made me a legal guardian to sign the necessary paperwork for them.
As I mentioned once before, her son joined the military and became a helicopter mechanic, her older daughter got married while in college, and I handled the wedding for her younger daughter after her first year of college. Obviously she only went to college to work on her Mrs., hi hi.
During spring, summer, and winter breaks, they all stayed at our house, with Ruth and I, Ruth's two kids and my two kids. Her son only stayed at my house once while home on leave, and that is when we talked about a house he would like to get when he got out of the service. Once back at college, the older girl got married out there. So it was just the younger one I had to do nearly everything for. But once out of the nest, I never heard from any of them again, not even a card. Sad!
But it was the same with Ruth's two kids also. Ruth's daughter was still living with me when I married Debi. But her relatives told her to move out, that it wasn't right for her to being staying there. So eventually she did move to a fancy place in Clayton. She was making plenty of money to afford it too.

One wedding Ruth and I went to, was held in a theater, and the bride and groom were actors in a bit play. That was sorta neat too. Another couple got married in the mad hatter costumes, but this was at a church. It was the reception that was done up more like Alice in Wonderland, which we didn't go to, other than to stick our head in the door to drop off the gifts.
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yogi
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by yogi »

I must say your history of marriages is nothing short of amazing. You did the right thing for Ruth's children by assuming the role of foster parent. They might not have fully appreciated what you did in that regard, but it was a noble gesture nonetheless. I can imagine some school paperwork that would require parental signatures, but the reality is that some college aged people do not have living parents. Does that mean they are to be denied an education because nobody is around to sign papers for them? You found a way around that technicality and became a legal guardian which satisfied the school's ridiculous requirement. I think you may have done more than you were required to do, but I also know you have a high sense of morals and ethics. Again, you did the right thing in a difficult and complicated situation.

I'm wondering now about how that retroactive marriage, which lasted merely five minutes, was recorded in the family tree. It must have involved a lot of dotted lines. I'm also wondering about the legal process of marriage. I would assume the bride and the groom would have to be able to participate and thus create the bond. Apparently I'm thinking incorrectly. All it takes is a judge to sign a paper, which is a reality that my non-married grandchildren understand better than I do.
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Kellemora
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by Kellemora »

Actually it was Barbara's three kids.
My first wife was Marsha, married in 1968, we had two children together, a boy and a girl, who both stayed with me after our divorce for a few years, then my daughter was kidnapped from the hospital by her mother, and after a round with the law, She thought it best if the daughter stayed with her mom, where she has been hell on wheels ever since.
After the divorce from Marsha, I joined PWP (Parents Without Partners) mainly to have many activities to do with my kids.
PWP is where I met Barbara, and together we were elected to the board to fill vacancies. Then when elections came up I was elected President of our local chapter. Ironic since I was still married to Marsha, as our divorce was never finalized.
I was reelected for a second term as president, and one of the primary reasons was I grew our chapter from like 68 members all the way up to 245 members, by making sure we had a full contingent of various different activities, but nothing wild like another chapter that was mostly adult swingers, if you catch my drift here. So many with younger children from that chapter dropped out and joined our chapter.
They wanted me to run for a third year as president, up to four years was allowed, but I Barbara and I obtained our first marriage license and would be leaving PWP after our marriage. Can't belong to them if you are married.
Barbara had three children, one boy and two girls. While we were dating, her son joined the service, and her oldest daughter started college. The youngest daughter started her Junior year at high school. The older daughter was a royal pain in the arse.
Now the younger daughter loved me to pieces, while the older daughter simply took advantage of me as much as she could.
During the summer break, while she was home, I did a valve job on her car for her, and when the school year started again, she went to a different college, out in Columbia. So I used one of my larger trucks to go and move all of her stuff from one college to another for her. Her mother was diagnosed with cancer while I was making that trip between colleges and coming back home again. The younger girl was glad I was there to take care of her mom, so she could continue at school as a Senior this year.
After Barbara's operation to remove the cancer, her older daughter came home and ran me off, which was expected. Especially after she learned we had planned on getting married. She didn't want anyone to replace her father. Understandable. After she went back to college, Barbara and I went and got our second marriage license, and planned on getting married before her daughter heard about it, hi hi. We both talked to her son about this also while he was home on leave, and he was OK with it. We also talked about my finding him a house for when he got out of the service.
About this time is when Barbara got diagnosed with a rare disease and called off the wedding again. He younger daughter is who more or less convinced her that she would need me to take care of her and handle all the stuff she couldn't. Once she was in the wheelchair, I had to take her to all of her doctors appointments and the like. During a time she was holding her own, and knowing she really needed me, we went and got our third marriage license, and set the date for right before the end of the school year, so it would be a done deal when her older daughter came home.
When her older daughter found out I was staying at Barbara's house in order to take care of her, she came home from school early and booted me out, hi hi. Said she would take care of her mom. Well, that didn't go over very big and Barbara ran her daughter back out of the house and back to school. But that same weekend is when she ended up in the hospital, and her older daughter told the hospital not to let me in to visit her. She obviously didn't like me very much, despite all I did for her.
I was still President of PWP during all of this time. Handling many activities, and going to a bucco amount of meetings. I was also on the board for zone by now as well. I bring this up, because one of the new members of PWP I gave a committee to her to run. At the time, just going through a divorce, I figured she needed something to keep active, and have a purpose in life.
Her name was Ruth, but at this time, it was all business. She handled the committee very well and up until it was time for the summer activities and it became too much for her, so I reassigned that job to someone else.
In the middle of the summer, is when she got close to me, and although we were not dating yet, we did spend a lot of time together at PWP functions, but not outside of those functions.
I got word that Barbara had passed away, and in her Will, she requested that I become the Foster Parent for her children.
When Ruth heard about Barbara's passing, she like changed gears, and spent more time with me. Ruth and I only dated for about the first four months of the year before we got married. Ruth had two children a boy and a girl around my own kids ages. So we started attending a blended families group before we tied the knot.
Barbara's son was still in the service, last year, her older daughter would be starting her Senior year in college, and the younger daughter would also be going to college. Both of the girls had problems getting their entrance papers, and the younger girl called me to see what I could do. It took about three weeks of dealing with my attorney and him trying to find out what it was about the colleges. It partly had to do with student loans, and classes approvals. But it was never clear to me just what the deal was. But my attorney told our problem to a judge and he listened, then wanted to hear the whole thing from me as well. And as I said, he came up with a way, which I already mentioned.
Ruth and I chose April the 1st to get married. We figured it was the most apropos date with all things considered.
While married to Ruth in those early years. Barbara's older daughter got married while away at college. The younger daughter got engaged, and I handled her wedding for her, church, aisle runner, flowers and all, hi hi. Plus the biggie, I found a house for her son in the area he wanted to live in, and it turns out the house I bought for him was his grandmothers old house, so he was elated over that. I helped him get the place all fixed up and settled in. And after the younger gal was married off, I never heard from any of Barbara's three kids ever again after that.

I had asked the judge how it could be legal, since I was already married to someone else. And obviously, there was no way I could consummate the marriage, hi hi. He laughed and said, I understand you already handled that part, hi hi.
On paper, the marriage took place retroactively, before I was married to Ruth, and ended on Barbara's death. Somehow this meant I wasn't a bigamist, hi hi.

As far as genealogy records go, yes I show her and a Partner, not as a wife, since it was all only on paperwork and not actually recorded as a legal marriage. At least not that I've been able to find doing research.
And of course, her kids would be listed with their real dad, not with me.
Just like Ruth's two kids are listed with their real dad and not with me, although Ruth and I raised them together.
Doing genealogy work can sometimes get quite complex, hi hi.
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yogi
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Re: Pencil Sharpener

Post by yogi »

I don't see how you can remember all those family ties. LOL
Well, I do understand. They were all a very important part of your life at some point. It's distressing that Barbara's children never appreciated all the things you did overtly and behind the scenes. That oldest daughter was doing what women do best, i.e. be protective of their family interests. I have noted that to be a very common behavior among daughters. Your family instincts are unusual in some ways, but that is all explained by your personal code of ethics. You were driven to get the kids into adulthood properly, but the kids might have only regarded you as a boyfriend of their mom. You should have no regrets with that situation because you did what was morally correct. I think the judge did the same thing, the morally correct thing. In the end it all looks legal on paper. Hopefully the kids did something constructive with that education you helped to enable.

The genealogy record shows Barbara as having a "partner" which is probably an apt description of the circumstances. I have no idea what should be included in those records, but it's obvious that your presence in Barbara's life didn't do anything for the family lineage. You did make Barbara happy, however, That should earn at least an asterisk.
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