User Friendly
Re: User Friendly
It's like people. Once you get to know them they are easier to be friends with. For me the Linux learning curve seems to never end.
Re: User Friendly
Well, each Distro is different. Perhaps if you stayed with just one you'll learn the ropes faster.
And also stay with the same desktop you like. I don't understand some of them myself.
And also stay with the same desktop you like. I don't understand some of them myself.
Re: User Friendly
You are probably correct about sticking with a single product and learning about it. That is pretty much the reason why Windows "just works" for me. It's not that Windows has fewer problems than Linux, but I am familiar with how to go about troubleshooting because that's all I did during my professional life and now in retirement. Linux would not make sense at all if I did not also have a background in Unix/Posix. Truthfully I must say that I took to learning Unix about 100 times quicker than picking up Apple OS and Windows NT. For some reason the command line is a natural way to do things for me.
I doubt that I would be happy with a single distro of Linux. Ubuntu is about the closest I've come to that because I have their .iso's going all the way back to 2009. At least one version of Ubuntu has always been part of my network of OS's. But then I was enamored by the idea that Linux is so flexible. Even you pointed out the flexibility of the numerous desktops and their myriad of settings. You also like to point out how Linux is superior in network operations and servers. Until I started experimenting with the various flavors of Linux all that flexibility and supposed benefits of FOSS was just talk. I started looking into some of those variations and that's when I got hooked on multi-booting. Grub was supposed to be the cat's meow for that kind of thing. All that flexibility, however, brings that many more opportunities for failure into the mix. That's when I discovered the beauty of being a multi-billlion dollar corporation that makes software for a living, e.g., Microsoft. There is a huge advantage to be able to hire the best of the best software engineers and design a behemoth intended to dominate the desktop computer market. You really can't appreciate what's going on there unless you have experience in both worlds.
My unrealized dream was to be a network security administrator. It's an unbelievably complex discipline both in terms of hardware and software. That complexity is attractive to me and the main reason I maintain about a dozen different operating systems spread out onto different platforms. I can't know the details of all of them, but getting it all to work as an integrated system was the challenge. I did it and have learned a lot about Linux that the single distro user never sees. Then again, I'm not doing anything useful, but in theory I could if I chose to.
I doubt that I would be happy with a single distro of Linux. Ubuntu is about the closest I've come to that because I have their .iso's going all the way back to 2009. At least one version of Ubuntu has always been part of my network of OS's. But then I was enamored by the idea that Linux is so flexible. Even you pointed out the flexibility of the numerous desktops and their myriad of settings. You also like to point out how Linux is superior in network operations and servers. Until I started experimenting with the various flavors of Linux all that flexibility and supposed benefits of FOSS was just talk. I started looking into some of those variations and that's when I got hooked on multi-booting. Grub was supposed to be the cat's meow for that kind of thing. All that flexibility, however, brings that many more opportunities for failure into the mix. That's when I discovered the beauty of being a multi-billlion dollar corporation that makes software for a living, e.g., Microsoft. There is a huge advantage to be able to hire the best of the best software engineers and design a behemoth intended to dominate the desktop computer market. You really can't appreciate what's going on there unless you have experience in both worlds.
My unrealized dream was to be a network security administrator. It's an unbelievably complex discipline both in terms of hardware and software. That complexity is attractive to me and the main reason I maintain about a dozen different operating systems spread out onto different platforms. I can't know the details of all of them, but getting it all to work as an integrated system was the challenge. I did it and have learned a lot about Linux that the single distro user never sees. Then again, I'm not doing anything useful, but in theory I could if I chose to.
Re: User Friendly
Although I prefer the Debian based Distro's.
Red Hat has really grown, to the point they actually dominate the commercial market now.
Just because one seem Windoze computers on the sales floor, doesn't mean they are the workhorse of the company.
They use Windoze because that is what most folks became accustomed to, so it cuts their training costs down considerably.
But those in the back room who make sure all those Windoze computers are working, and handling all the data exchanges and storage, are usually on Linux, and more often than not it is Red Hat because of the support Red Hat offers.
People like you and me can toy around trying other Distro's and play with them as much as we want.
But a business who requires their back end to be up and running and well supported only have two real choices.
They can go with the overly expensive NT server, or use fully supported Red Hat. So service is only a phone call away.
In addition, many large companies have their own programs and the employees have no idea what OS is on the computers they use. You only find smaller companies being able to back down out of the employer provided programs to do other things available on the OS they are operating.
They had a short power outage at Ace hardware where my frau works. She was surprised they had to reboot their entire system, but one special backup register #3 was still working during the time they had to boot up the rest.
She even asked why is this register working when none of the rest are?
Her boss said just for the very reason you are experiencing right now!
We have two different the support services, and the reason we rarely use register #3 is it is on the old IBM system, and all the rest of the store and computers are on the new Cisco system. The old system can be up and running in under 3 minutes, and then share the data with the home office later on in the day. But the new system is always live, as long as it has power.
The way he told it to her, it seems the older IBM system is in-house with a link to their home office, while the new system only works with the home office and that's it. Thus the reason for keeping register #3 and the old system, for when their power comes back on. Apparently it takes anywhere from 1/2 hour to 2 hours to be up and running again with the home office on the live system. They have to reboot every machine in the store before they can go back live again. Confusing!
At least she now knows why after something goes haywire, they tell her to go use register #3, hi hi.
Red Hat has really grown, to the point they actually dominate the commercial market now.
Just because one seem Windoze computers on the sales floor, doesn't mean they are the workhorse of the company.
They use Windoze because that is what most folks became accustomed to, so it cuts their training costs down considerably.
But those in the back room who make sure all those Windoze computers are working, and handling all the data exchanges and storage, are usually on Linux, and more often than not it is Red Hat because of the support Red Hat offers.
People like you and me can toy around trying other Distro's and play with them as much as we want.
But a business who requires their back end to be up and running and well supported only have two real choices.
They can go with the overly expensive NT server, or use fully supported Red Hat. So service is only a phone call away.
In addition, many large companies have their own programs and the employees have no idea what OS is on the computers they use. You only find smaller companies being able to back down out of the employer provided programs to do other things available on the OS they are operating.
They had a short power outage at Ace hardware where my frau works. She was surprised they had to reboot their entire system, but one special backup register #3 was still working during the time they had to boot up the rest.
She even asked why is this register working when none of the rest are?
Her boss said just for the very reason you are experiencing right now!
We have two different the support services, and the reason we rarely use register #3 is it is on the old IBM system, and all the rest of the store and computers are on the new Cisco system. The old system can be up and running in under 3 minutes, and then share the data with the home office later on in the day. But the new system is always live, as long as it has power.
The way he told it to her, it seems the older IBM system is in-house with a link to their home office, while the new system only works with the home office and that's it. Thus the reason for keeping register #3 and the old system, for when their power comes back on. Apparently it takes anywhere from 1/2 hour to 2 hours to be up and running again with the home office on the live system. They have to reboot every machine in the store before they can go back live again. Confusing!
At least she now knows why after something goes haywire, they tell her to go use register #3, hi hi.
Re: User Friendly
Your Ace Hardware story brings to mind the super power I apparently have to shut down at least one computer at Schnucks. Been here about 4.5 years now and have seen one major overhaul of the checkout system at Schnucks. As far as me the customer is concerned only one improvement was made. I now do not have to touch the terminal in any way to pay with my credit card. All it takes is a hover over the sensitive spot on the reader. The slide channel, the chip reader, and the keyboard is still present, but I never need any of that. I loved the system way before the pandemic set in and made touching public machines dangerous. So, for at least two years now my credit card has been working as expected in all but one of the checkout lanes. That particular lane always happens to have the same till tart running it. She definitely has an OCD problem and is kind of fun to watch her arrange items on the conveyor belt before she scans them. I'm happy that the gal is able to work and she seems pretty well adjusted to it all. However, I noted several months ago that my credit card does not like that checkout card reader, or perhaps the person doing the scanning. After she is done and announces the total I whip out my card and hover over the sensor. Nothing happens for a while. She keeps looking at me to be sure I was doing the right thing, but there isn't a lot of latitude to make mistakes. Eventually she gets frustrated and turns the reader to her so she can examine the screen. A few punches here and there and STILL nothing happens. At that point she reaches under the counter and resets the computer. It takes only two or three minutes to reboot, and afterward my credit card magically does what it's suppose do to.
I know enough about computers to think nothing of it. But then it happened again at a later date. And again, and again. So every time I go to that particular checkout lane with that particular till tart, my card fails to be read. I'm sure it's her because none of the other lanes or till tarts have that problem. I just don't know what she is doing or not doing to cause the failure. People in front of me who swipe their cards or have the machine read the chip do not shut down the system. Only my hover card will do it.
Oh, and no doubt it is a Linux OS in that computer. LOL
Way back in prehistoric times I worked in and for the MIS people at Motorola. That was back in the days of Windows NT which was the dominant server used in the factory environment. There was a heavy dose of IBM machines too; all servers. For a few years we ran Apply OS because they were buying their CPU chips from us, but all those workstations were connected to Windows servers. After being involved with all that for a few years the question of why they don't use Linux came to mind. The IT manager explained that Linux is unreliable, not many people are trained in servicing it, and there is no mission critical support from third parties. Thus Windows was the preferred server for that time and place. Of course that was something like twenty years ago and might as well have been in some other universe. Things have changed drastically, I'm sure. Then, too, there was some sort of sweetheart deal with Microsoft in that we were buying licenses for NT by the thousands; and that was just the Chicago area campuses.
Today's business environment is headed for the clouds. The gods of the Internet only know what is going on up there. I'm sure there is a dominance of Unix/Linux servers, but Microsoft has an extremely profitable business going with that service. I realize they too use Linux and that they are thinking of changing their engine to a Linux type kernel, but by far the majority of anything Microsoft remains in the Microsoft environment. Apple is in a world of it's own and you would would call it Linux. I would call it Apple. Then the biggest cloud of them all (right up there with Amazon) is Google. They don't use much of Linux anywhere in their systems. They are such freaking snobs that they invented their own OS and their own network software. Well Microsoft, Apple, and Google is not the entire world of computers, although it seems that way at times. I'm sure all those other guys love something reliable like Fedora and Red Hat. In fact I will most likely default to some version of Fedora if I ever abandon my reliance on Windows. They are good, and you can buy service from them. I don't know about mission critical stuff, but they do have something attractive for so many people to like them.
I know enough about computers to think nothing of it. But then it happened again at a later date. And again, and again. So every time I go to that particular checkout lane with that particular till tart, my card fails to be read. I'm sure it's her because none of the other lanes or till tarts have that problem. I just don't know what she is doing or not doing to cause the failure. People in front of me who swipe their cards or have the machine read the chip do not shut down the system. Only my hover card will do it.
Oh, and no doubt it is a Linux OS in that computer. LOL
Way back in prehistoric times I worked in and for the MIS people at Motorola. That was back in the days of Windows NT which was the dominant server used in the factory environment. There was a heavy dose of IBM machines too; all servers. For a few years we ran Apply OS because they were buying their CPU chips from us, but all those workstations were connected to Windows servers. After being involved with all that for a few years the question of why they don't use Linux came to mind. The IT manager explained that Linux is unreliable, not many people are trained in servicing it, and there is no mission critical support from third parties. Thus Windows was the preferred server for that time and place. Of course that was something like twenty years ago and might as well have been in some other universe. Things have changed drastically, I'm sure. Then, too, there was some sort of sweetheart deal with Microsoft in that we were buying licenses for NT by the thousands; and that was just the Chicago area campuses.
Today's business environment is headed for the clouds. The gods of the Internet only know what is going on up there. I'm sure there is a dominance of Unix/Linux servers, but Microsoft has an extremely profitable business going with that service. I realize they too use Linux and that they are thinking of changing their engine to a Linux type kernel, but by far the majority of anything Microsoft remains in the Microsoft environment. Apple is in a world of it's own and you would would call it Linux. I would call it Apple. Then the biggest cloud of them all (right up there with Amazon) is Google. They don't use much of Linux anywhere in their systems. They are such freaking snobs that they invented their own OS and their own network software. Well Microsoft, Apple, and Google is not the entire world of computers, although it seems that way at times. I'm sure all those other guys love something reliable like Fedora and Red Hat. In fact I will most likely default to some version of Fedora if I ever abandon my reliance on Windows. They are good, and you can buy service from them. I don't know about mission critical stuff, but they do have something attractive for so many people to like them.
Re: User Friendly
They have trouble with one of the card readers where Debi works, but they don't have to reboot the register, merely unplug the card reader and plug it back again, wait about 10 seconds for it to initialize and then it works again.
I was having a similar problem with our newest computer. Had to get up and unplug the mouse and plug it back in again, then it would work. Sometimes the screen will lock up on me to the point I cannot reboot from the screen so have to shut it down and do a cold boot. None of my older computers ever gave me those kinds of problems.
What confuses me about some businesses I've been in, is the fact they have three or more servers, all connected to the home office. Now I know one is exclusive to the accounting department, but even so, that server gets data from the other two servers, and only one of them are connected to the home office, and that is the one all transactions go through from the registers right down to the accounting department. They have a computer in the receiving department with all kinds of odd wifi boxes connected to it.
Hmm, as far as I know, Google does use the Linux kernel, but have their own OS they have written.
Then too, they also have dozens of mainframe computers all around the country, and probably overseas also.
Back when I had a merchants account, the second one after I moved down here, I also had a POS system that was a self-contained box, it worked just fine on my Windows XP computer. But it also had to talk to the card reader, and to my on-line merchants account as well. I didn't pay for their accounting package, simply because I could print out everything for the day and enter it into my accounting program by hand, or when I was using Quick Books Pro it could read the data for me.
I got rid of the merchants account first, or mainly the card reader, because I could do it by hand on my computer without paying the super high fees they charged. I was still charged my monthly membership but that was it, no more rent on the card reader.
Then when I quit doing everything except my AZ-NO3 product, I got rid of the POS system and that huge fee.
Long after I moved to Linux, I played around with about four or five of the free LInux POS systems. Found one I liked really well, but they are all designed for a touch screen. Even so, you can use a mouse to click on the boxes. I think what I liked about it was the fact it kept track of what of each item I use as ingredients and/or packaging and warned me when I was getting low on something. I didn't have it set up to place the orders though.
I was having a similar problem with our newest computer. Had to get up and unplug the mouse and plug it back in again, then it would work. Sometimes the screen will lock up on me to the point I cannot reboot from the screen so have to shut it down and do a cold boot. None of my older computers ever gave me those kinds of problems.
What confuses me about some businesses I've been in, is the fact they have three or more servers, all connected to the home office. Now I know one is exclusive to the accounting department, but even so, that server gets data from the other two servers, and only one of them are connected to the home office, and that is the one all transactions go through from the registers right down to the accounting department. They have a computer in the receiving department with all kinds of odd wifi boxes connected to it.
Hmm, as far as I know, Google does use the Linux kernel, but have their own OS they have written.
Then too, they also have dozens of mainframe computers all around the country, and probably overseas also.
Back when I had a merchants account, the second one after I moved down here, I also had a POS system that was a self-contained box, it worked just fine on my Windows XP computer. But it also had to talk to the card reader, and to my on-line merchants account as well. I didn't pay for their accounting package, simply because I could print out everything for the day and enter it into my accounting program by hand, or when I was using Quick Books Pro it could read the data for me.
I got rid of the merchants account first, or mainly the card reader, because I could do it by hand on my computer without paying the super high fees they charged. I was still charged my monthly membership but that was it, no more rent on the card reader.
Then when I quit doing everything except my AZ-NO3 product, I got rid of the POS system and that huge fee.
Long after I moved to Linux, I played around with about four or five of the free LInux POS systems. Found one I liked really well, but they are all designed for a touch screen. Even so, you can use a mouse to click on the boxes. I think what I liked about it was the fact it kept track of what of each item I use as ingredients and/or packaging and warned me when I was getting low on something. I didn't have it set up to place the orders though.
Re: User Friendly
I don't know what you are doing there, but the problem of rebooting to get the mouse/keyboard working is familiar. I learned of this when I tried to re-install Windows 7 one time. It took several reboots to get the installer CD to work and even then it got flaky and I had to use the tab and space bar to move the program along. The problem there is that Windows 7 originally came with USB 2 support. USB 3 wasn't invented yet. By the time I was doing the re-install, all my equipment was USB 3. Eventually I found a way to install the drivers so that the installation/repairs could be done seamlessly. You may be running into something similar with the mix of old computers and new hardware peripherals.
I think you are correct in that Google did use the Linux kernel at one point in it's evolution. I don't believe that is the case anymore for their search engine, but I can't prove it. LOL
Business computers are not standardized. I doubt that there are any two networks and systems in the entire universe that are identical. The corporate computer might actually be a network and not a dedicated machine. It all depends on the size of the company and how the communications were designed. Corporate people need to know what everybody is doing in real time which is the main reason why all those remote computers end up being tied to headquarters. Out in the wild the servers are pretty much dedicated to one task so that it makes sense to have more than one server on campus. The secret to success is the network and not the computers. The interconnections is what makes it all work.
There are some very alluring Linux based operating systems that are designed for security testing of networks. The standard kernel is at the heart of them all because many networks worth hacking are run on Linux machines. The desktops and utilities found in these penetration testing machines are absolutely mind boggling. If I had it to do all over again, that would be my specialty.
I think you are correct in that Google did use the Linux kernel at one point in it's evolution. I don't believe that is the case anymore for their search engine, but I can't prove it. LOL
Business computers are not standardized. I doubt that there are any two networks and systems in the entire universe that are identical. The corporate computer might actually be a network and not a dedicated machine. It all depends on the size of the company and how the communications were designed. Corporate people need to know what everybody is doing in real time which is the main reason why all those remote computers end up being tied to headquarters. Out in the wild the servers are pretty much dedicated to one task so that it makes sense to have more than one server on campus. The secret to success is the network and not the computers. The interconnections is what makes it all work.
There are some very alluring Linux based operating systems that are designed for security testing of networks. The standard kernel is at the heart of them all because many networks worth hacking are run on Linux machines. The desktops and utilities found in these penetration testing machines are absolutely mind boggling. If I had it to do all over again, that would be my specialty.
Re: User Friendly
It was the newest computer that was giving me fits with the USB ports.
I'm sure Google for it's own OS, is using the LInux kernel. But some of their server farms are using Z-OS and others.
I know very little other than the things I've done with a simple print server. And that was long before WiFi and connecting to everything that way.
I do know as far as my home WiFi here, I can connect through the router to the Internet regardless of what OS is running on the computers themselves, or even the Schmartz-Fonz.
My laser printer appears on the network, and Debi was sending me here weekly work schedule via e-mail from her Schmartz-Fone so I could print it out. She figured out a couple of weeks ago, instead of sending it to my e-mail, she could send it straight to my printer. How that works I have no idea, but it does, and she never installed any drivers for my printer, unless they are already built-in to her phone.
Even though I use GNU/Linux, I'm really not all that computer savvy. I just learn to do the things I need to do, and if need be, look up on the Internet how to get something done. I may know a little more than the average Joe, but if I go to a LUG meeting I'm totally lost about what they are talking about.
I'm sure Google for it's own OS, is using the LInux kernel. But some of their server farms are using Z-OS and others.
I know very little other than the things I've done with a simple print server. And that was long before WiFi and connecting to everything that way.
I do know as far as my home WiFi here, I can connect through the router to the Internet regardless of what OS is running on the computers themselves, or even the Schmartz-Fonz.
My laser printer appears on the network, and Debi was sending me here weekly work schedule via e-mail from her Schmartz-Fone so I could print it out. She figured out a couple of weeks ago, instead of sending it to my e-mail, she could send it straight to my printer. How that works I have no idea, but it does, and she never installed any drivers for my printer, unless they are already built-in to her phone.
Even though I use GNU/Linux, I'm really not all that computer savvy. I just learn to do the things I need to do, and if need be, look up on the Internet how to get something done. I may know a little more than the average Joe, but if I go to a LUG meeting I'm totally lost about what they are talking about.
Re: User Friendly
When we first purchased my wife's iPad tablet computer, it was exclusively Apple oriented. We could not print anything from the tablet and did the e-mail trick you describe when it was necessary. Somewhere during the last 5 years worth of updates, Apple can now access the HP printer in my laboratory. That printer has a web server built in which is a feature I did not want but could not negotiate at the time of purchase. That server acts as a print server and anything that can talk to the router can print to the printer. For the past year or two the iPad figured out how to do it all on it's own. The trick is to find the right icon on the tablet to get the process started. LOL
Perhaps the availability of the printer is not an Apple innovation. I have noted that recent installations of Linux, many if not all of them, find the HP printer without me installing any drivers. It's due to the fact that it is a network printer and not attached to any dedicated computer. I could have used USB to attach the printer to my tower computer, and then share that function on the network. But, that turned out to be an unnecessary complication so that now the printer is a stand alone device on the LAN. That is probably similar to what is going on at your house. I've not had a need to print anything from the clever phone but there are HP drivers installed. I found the app for that but never actually tried to print from the phone. The theory is to not put anything important on the phone, just in case.
Perhaps the availability of the printer is not an Apple innovation. I have noted that recent installations of Linux, many if not all of them, find the HP printer without me installing any drivers. It's due to the fact that it is a network printer and not attached to any dedicated computer. I could have used USB to attach the printer to my tower computer, and then share that function on the network. But, that turned out to be an unnecessary complication so that now the printer is a stand alone device on the LAN. That is probably similar to what is going on at your house. I've not had a need to print anything from the clever phone but there are HP drivers installed. I found the app for that but never actually tried to print from the phone. The theory is to not put anything important on the phone, just in case.
Re: User Friendly
I have my printer connect via both USB and LAN.
Printing via USB from the Silver Yogi is faster than printing over the LAN.
But with the LAN I can print from any computer on the network.
I think HPLIP comes as standard driver on most devices these days.
But unless you have a USB connection, you can't access the HPLIP toolbox.
My first couple of printers, many eons ago, only had three wires from the computer, and only accepted character codes, and used an internal font to print the text. It wasn't until much later that the dot matrix printers could print graphical characters or images.
Printing via USB from the Silver Yogi is faster than printing over the LAN.
But with the LAN I can print from any computer on the network.
I think HPLIP comes as standard driver on most devices these days.
But unless you have a USB connection, you can't access the HPLIP toolbox.
My first couple of printers, many eons ago, only had three wires from the computer, and only accepted character codes, and used an internal font to print the text. It wasn't until much later that the dot matrix printers could print graphical characters or images.
Re: User Friendly
Data transfer over USB is a lot faster than over WiFi. That would seem to be the preferred method. The printer I have can be used from anyplace on earth that has an Internet connection. That's actually a special web service offered by HP, but it's totally unnecessary these days. There is an HP app for my clever phone that connects to the house router and prints that way. The printer has a dedicated IP address so that all my virtual boxes, Linux On A Stick(s), and normal hardware can find it. It's all very flexible but I don't like the idea that the printer is always connected to the Internet via the web server. HP likes it because they can download updates transparently, not to mention collect telemetry data. Turns out that collection can be done even when the printer is turned off. It has to be unplugged from the AC source in order to completely shut down the printer. My printer could be part of an IOT bot net for all I know.
Re: User Friendly
Naturally, it is another back door for hackers to get into, hi hi.
And/or Big Brother to keep tabs on us!
And/or Big Brother to keep tabs on us!