Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Ask questions and give answers about computers, mobile devices, game boxes, PC security and all manner of geeky stuff.
User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6942
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by yogi »

I learned about a new tradition from your missionary feeding story. I've only seen a few monks in my life and talked to even less. A friend and some family have been on missions related to church obligations but they never really aimed their efforts at us directly. My wife knew a nun who worked in an African mission and we met her only a time or two. I have a feeling some of the folks on my street get into the missionary spirit once in a while, but I don't go to their churches and can't say for certain what they are up to. They just are very kind to me when I least expect it. I know I've told you about it a time or two. In all my experiences I have not heard of inviting them to dinner, but why not? It sounds like an awesome idea. Hopefully the ones that might appear at my dinner table have taken a vow of silence. What does one talk about to missionaries anyway? LOL

I know why my doctor thought I had diabetes. He was just following the book for a definition. My blood sugar was super high for an extended period of time. When I went on the diet I cut out drinking HI-C juice, which is more like mainlining high potency fructose. After a few months of healthy eating and taking in nothing Coca Cola had anything to do with, my A1C tests returned to normal. According to theory that's not possible for a true diabetic, but the doctor could not confess to a misdiagnosis. Of course. So I have glucose intolerance instead.

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 4597
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by Kellemora »

Religion was not a normal topic at the dinner table.
Most often they told us what their home state was, and where they went on their missions before ending up in my home state for the end of their tour.
You missionaries are usually kept stateside, while those who are older, usually past 30 years old go on the foreign missions.
I myself have been on two overseas mission trips, both were to east central Africa where I helped to get 24 small farms started for tribes there. The sad thing about the second trip I made was, near the end we went by the tribes of our previous tour, only to find the evil neighboring tribes would come in and trample their crops, or steal what they could.
After we learned this, and although I never went over on another trip. Those who did now brought the materials to build chain link fences, with a chain link roof, over the gardening areas. But instead of having a small farm behind each hut, they had one larger farm between two rows of huts on their backsides where they could be guarded better.
From what I was told, a lot had changed since I was over there. Many small houses were built, and a few stores opened. Nothing like what we think of as a store though, hi hi. At least several of the tribes did come together to form a community. That is something I would have liked to see. East central Africa was starting to pick up trade from southern Africa, and also learning commercial skills. Much more advanced than when I was there on my first trip.

I never had diabetes, and never looked like I would ever get diabetes.
I was always thin and trim and got lots of exercise.
All of my test results were in the normal range.
It wasn't until after my second heart attack that the doc told me I had to quit smoking.
I had a full lab workup on that visit too, and everything was within normal range.
He prescribed some Chantix for me to take. It didn't help one bit by the way.
One month later, because I was feeling really out of sorts, they did another full lab panel on me.
A few things were out of kilter, but my blood glucose was well up in the 700 range.
So, in 30 days it went from normal to exceedingly high.
I stopped taking the Chantix and went back to smoking, hi hi.
He put me on something stronger than Metformin, I forget what it was, but it caused me to bottom out, so I quit taking that prescription entirely.
On my next visit, after not taking the diabetic pills, I was back down to the 380 to 400 range, which was still high.
So he started me on 2 Metformin in the afternoon before I ate dinner.
I had to change my diet considerably, although I never really ate much, but now nothing with sugar or carbs.
Although you can't really get totally away from carbs.
I've managed to keep it down with diet and often only 1 Metformin pill instead of 2.
But the damage done by the Chantix can never be undone.
They had a class action lawsuit against Chantix, but they dropped me from it since I not only stopped taking Chantix, but also because I was now averaging under 200 with the Metformin.

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6942
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by yogi »

One year when I was young and a newly wed, my bride and I went to Bermuda during the month of February. The resort we stayed at had a special going for the entire month. If the official temperature at the local airport dropped below 70F for more than an hour, they would give us a 20% (I think) discount on our accommodations. We were there for five days and got that discount two of the nights when the temp dropped down to a chilling 68F. Bermuda, to my surprise at the time, is a foreign country. We needed passports to enter and were interrogated by the customs people to be certain we were not planning on moving there or staying longer than 30 days. Apparently immigration was not allowed back then. It was on this trip that I got to see the home of the invention known as Bermuda shorts. We were walking downtown and businessmen in suits were out there in shorts and stockings held in place with garters. It was amazing to us but no big deal down there.

We rented a Moped to do some sight seeing, but didn't go very far for very long. Being a foreign country they all drive on the wrong side of the road. It was way more of a shock to my reflexes and instincts than I thought it would be, and we stayed off the main streets with traffic as much as possible. Going through the local neighborhoods was an amazing experience. Bermuda, like the Virgin Islands I visited, has residents that are truly black skinned. Judging by the buildings and homes we saw they were not very affluent either. In fact it seemed like downright poverty. They were friendly folks and we stopped to talk to one who was standing in front of a food store. Or, a small shack about the size of a medium bedroom here which had a few baskets of fruit on display inside the store. That was all I saw from the outside because we declined the offer to go inside. LOL There was no apparent reason to be concerned, but wife and I both felt very out of context.

Well, yeah, I know missionaries don't talk much about religion; not unless you ask them. It's just that they live a lifestyle completely different than what I normally deal with every day. I don't know what I would have thought about you if we met while you were on a mission. You probably were as normal as anybody.

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 4597
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by Kellemora »

My wife and I went on a cruise a few years back. She and her niece had planned on going on one together, but it got cancelled due to Covid.
I don't remember all the places we docked at, but did get to go to the original Margaritaville, and many other places too.
We rented a tour guide with a small open bus who took us around to see sites the normal tours don't go to. I think we figured out why during the trip, he took us to out-of-the-way tourist traps, most were just board shacks lined up side by side, but it was phun and we had a great time.
I spent 90% of my time in the casino, while the wife slept most of the time, she didn't have sea legs.
And that religion many join to get the dot behind and above their ear, she joined and got her dot, hi hi.
Just kidding, it was the seasick medication, but a comedian called it a religion, hi hi.

The two mission trips I was on was to plow and plant farms, or set up hydroponic farms on rocky ground. Other missionaries would hold a morning service before we went to work, then they came to work also, but usually just telling folks what to carry where for us.
Back home, the only thing about me out of the ordinary was I was the coordinator for a home church group. I sometimes take credit for being the founder, but actually the founder was the first host home we used. He already had a group of 8 members. We had a couple members who lived further away, but closer to my house, and I helped set them up as a host home, and it just snowballed from there.
At the time I moved south, our group was over 250 families, meeting in 66 different homes, and I handle the rotation schedules for all of the families, so they would each eventually meet each other. However, we grew so big to cover such a large area, it no longer became possible during regular services to meet everyone, so once a month at first, and then once every quarter, we would lease a large building for a day so everyone who wanted to could converge for a service and luncheon.
After I moved down here I got a small group going, but did not do rotations, each host home took care of their own services, but we did have a couple of ministers who went around to each host home to make sure they were staying true to our doctrines, which closely followed the Scriptures. Currently I have no idea how many host homes are out there, but do have 2 to 4 families visit us on Sunday morning, one is a minister who conducts the service, since I can't talk much anymore without coughing and choking to death, hi hi.

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6942
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by yogi »

It was just yesterday when I saw an article about a cruise line dismantling a couple of their ships due to a lack of business during this COVID crisis. About the only thing I can think of that might be worse than being cooped up in a boat cabin would be an airplane cabin where the air is recirculated. At least on the ship you can more or less isolate yourself in your cabin. Of course doing that would defeat the purpose of being on a cruise. I don't feel too sorry for those people because stories about entire boatloads of people becoming sick were circulating way before there was a pandemic. It's time for them to be thinking out of the box. Literally.

I pass by the local Catholic church on my way to Schnucks. It was all closed down for several weeks with nary a soul in the parking lot. I don't know what they did for funerals. Perhaps Catholics stopped dying when things were at their worst. In spite of the current headlines things in O'Fallon seem to be getting back on track. Apparently it will be a long time, if ever, before things get back to normal dining and shopping. But, I noticed the church parking lot was full of cars last weekend. That must have been a first over the past six months or so. My buddy in Franklin, TN, belongs to a church group similar to the one you describe being active in. He has been attending virtual sessions for several months now and told me how it's not the same as being there. So, they are now doing what you do and inviting a few members to their home each week, but only a few at a time. It still sounds risky to have strangers visit, but so far everything is under control.

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 4597
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by Kellemora »

Down here, about the only churches that closed were those who had 501c3 agreements with the government. Because of that agreement, they have to do what the government tells them to do.
All the other churches that don't have a 501c3 are protected by the Constitution.
Also, ones that don't have a 501c3 can become polling stations for elections.
Others might be able to also, but perhaps on different terms. I never checked into it.
One big thing is, churches with 501c3 agreements CANNOT promote poly-TICK-ians for an election.
While those who don't have such an agreement can push a poly-TICK-ian all they want.
When we vote early, we vote at Meridian Baptist Church, but regular voting is at the Boys and Girls Center run by the city.

The cabin air in an airliner is under pressure and exhausted to the outside through a small port under the plane.
News media made a big deal about showing this port and the long brown streak back when they were working on getting smoking banned from airlines. But they never came back to show the same brown streak is still on planes even after the smoking bans and on planes that were never smoked in at all, they still have the long brown streak also.
Planes have always had cleaner air than cruise ships, because of their filtered air compression systems.

Ships have no such system, they just have their heating and cooling systems, which from what I understand do take in some outside air to make up for all the exhaust vents, but yes it is recirculated on a ship, not so on an airplane though.

The Home Fellowship group I ran back home, after we had enough host homes, only neighbors they new were who rotated between the homes. Down here it is the same group of 4 to 8 every week, almost. There are a couple of families who go to the host home where a certain minister is teaching, so they more or less follow the person. The teacher who comes to my house was a former Episcopalian Minister, but left them to join the un-denominational movement where the only rule book is the bible.
Back home, we had tons of former Catholics in our groups. Many may stay Catholic, but realized they do the exact opposite of what the bible teaches, even their own Douay bible. There are many things the bible says do not do that they do as a matter of ritual, probably since the beginning of the church. They do have their apologetic groups that explain why they think it is OK for them to do some of the things they do. Just like most organized religions, hi hi.

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6942
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by yogi »

I know the president tries to appeal to the Evangelicals among us, which tells me religion isn't exactly separated from politics. Taxes are quite another issue altogether. I'm not too sure how I would vote for a law that makes ALL churches with an income pay taxes. I'm leaning on making the rules the same for everyone no matter which way they go. Be that all as it may, the standing a church may or may not have in the eyes of a government has nothing to do with the health, safety, and well being of the congregation. I don't know why or who is making the decisions in the town's Catholic church, but I hope they are doing it to protect their members and not simply being forced to by some IRS law.

You probably would know more about air conditioning in public transportation vehicles than I do. My thinking is that the air in a cabin of a plane is shared by everybody whether it's recirculated or passed through brown smokey vents only once. I've become more aware of such things lately, read that to mean paranoid, and am taking precautions to protect myself and my wife of many years. We have not flown on any airplanes this year nor have we traveled up to Chicago, for example. Today, my wife's birthday, we went to Old Towne in St Charles (thanks for the suggestion, by the way) and ate lunch outside in the patio seating. This was only the second time since the pandemic engulfed our state. I only did it because that was her request for a celebration. I was a bit uncomfortable with the idea and sanitized my hands at every store that offered a bottle of juice for squirting. Of course I wore a mask the entire time too unless I was eating or drinking something. A good portion of the general population was masked on the streets too; at least 75%. Most of them were older so that I could understand why. Just about everybody in the shops were masked. The waitresses where we ate were not. I kept my distance, but they could have at least pretended they cared.

And, I didn't realize until it was too late, but this place added $2.00 to the bill due to increased costs of using credit cards. Say what? I thought that was illegal. If they said it was due to the need to buy sanitizer, that would have set better with me. I would have reduced the amount of the gratuity if I noted that addition sooner. I'll just be more careful the next time we eat out. Probably around Thanksgiving.

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 4597
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by Kellemora »

Actually separation of church and state is to prohibit the government from forming their own religion.
It also protects religions, both good and bad, from being influenced by the government.
All churches and religious organizations are automatically exempt from taxes, but not for the reason you may think.
Taxes were paid on the income by those earning the money already. The church is not selling anything, else they would be taxed on sale of items. No, the money is donated to churches to help maintain them, and to provide for the poor.
I do agree there are some Big Business Churches out there geared to making HUGE PROFITS. But they are covered also.
The trick the government pulled was allowing churches to get a 501c3 which then gives the government the right to dictate to them about what they can do. For a church, it is really not worth it to get a 501c3 but many do.

Many years ago, gas stations charged one higher price for credit and a lower price for cash.
Many laws were passed that prohibited this.
A few stores who offered Discounts for Cash also got into trouble.
So I don't know how a restaurant can charge extra for you using a credit card.
Perhaps Johnny Law hasn't been told about this yet and put a stop to it.

I do know back when you could smoke on an airliner, and most people did back then, the cabin was not filled with smoke.
Neither were the work places as far as that goes, due to the air handling systems designed to keep the air clear.
I used to fly a lot when I was younger, and although I was a smoker, it was already getting to the point where smokers had to move to the back of the plane to smoke. The outlawed pipes and cigars first, and in first class they had a double curtain with a smoking area for the first class passengers. Then of course it was no smoking at all.

I used to take the Silver Eagle train from Kirkwood going west sometimes as far as Denver.
At that time, nearly everyone smoked. And being the curious sort I was, I wondered where the smoke went.
On the front of each car are two large air vents, and up in the ceiling were air intake vents.
These ceiling vents had a bi-metalic strip that opened or closed them to maintain the temperature in the car.
The air that came in the vents in the front either passed through the heating unit, or the AC unit if so equipped.
AC was not all that common when I rode the trains. So a lot of outside air flowed through them in the summer.

The little place we eat at quite often, who has had 5.99 dinner prices now for at least 5 years, jumped by a buck for each month since they were allowed to reopen. The day they reopened it was 6.99, 3 weeks later it was 7.99, and when we at their last it was 8.99. They said it is because of the limited seating. They base their prices on the number of people served each week, and with only 25% of their tables allowed to be used, the bills have to be paid to stay open.
The owner did say when they can use all their seating, they will bring the price back down to 6.99, but the days of 5.99 are now long gone, as everything else has gone up since the pandemic.
While everyone else was charging up to 2 bucks for a glass of soda, he has kept his at 75 cents, and only now upped to 1.00 a glass. However, you now get 16 ounces instead of 12 ounces too, mostly ice, hi hi.

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6942
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by yogi »

The current justification for the IRS existing is to collect income taxes; Income regardless of where it comes from. Donations to a church is income for the church. Seems simple enough to me.

The pandemic has changed a lot of the rules and I have a lot of sympathy for the small business operators who are suffering due to the restrictions they must follow. The Mexican restaurant we went to several weeks ago supposedly could only seat 50% of it's legal capacity. The menu didn't change one bit other than it was now printed on a piece of paper which in theory is done so that they become disposable. However, it also makes it easy to change the prices on that menu rather quickly. To be honest I didn't notice any price increases, but I am not one to pay close attention to food prices anyway. This place we went to yesterday no doubt is suffering from the same seating restrictions and thus a reduction in business. However, I didn't see any unusual lines of people forming waiting to get in. Be that as it may, I can understand a need to raise prices in order to stay in business. Again, if they said they needed to charge a "COVID surtax" and added that to my bill, I'd feel a lot better than saying it's due to the use of my credit card. I haven't heard of any increase in transaction charges, but I suppose that's a possibility.

I too recall those days when the prices were different for cash or credit purchases. The laws were passed to make things equal, but you being the good businessman that you are know better. Those extra costs are added to the cost of doing business and passed onto the consumer. It was all transparent and everybody was happy; or at least accepted the method.

I used to smoke cigars and pipe tobacco and quit literally overnight. I have no hard evidence other than the fact I will be 76 years old next month and a lot of my smoking friends and relatives who smoked unabashedly are not among the living anymore. Personally I think quitting the habit improved my life. It certainly gave me more money to put into computer stuff. LOL
Last edited by yogi on 10 Oct 2020, 17:59, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 4597
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by Kellemora »

I will agree that a Church is actually a business. However, all the income a church takes in is used for expenses, which would then make it tax deductible, and in the end, they would still owe no taxes. And would probably then qualify to get money back from the government without paying anything in first.

What I can't figure out is why they forced small businesses to close, but allowed the large mega-businesses to stay open.
One or two people walking into a small bakery every hour has got to be a lot safer than 150 people milling about the different departments of a large store, then lining up at the only open register to check out.

All taxes, expenses, and overhead are added to the Cost of Goods Sold, which is then marked up by what percentage is common in their industry. This means the taxes are marked up as well. So all businesses profit on the taxes they pay without it costing them anything at all. Even the accounting to handle those taxes is added to the Cost of Goods sold.
For every 1 dollar the first company in the chain of manufacturing and distribution pays in taxes, John Doe Consumer pays 5 to 7 dollars in hidden taxes at the register. The government still only gets their dollar, all the rest is distributed as profits back down through the chain of distribution and manufacturing. We PROFIT on the taxes we paid out!

It is good you quit smoking! I'm sure you are much healthier because you did so.
The thing is, not all smokers have medical problems, and not all non-smokers avoid getting cancer.
I have a few relatives who smoked like stoker furnaces who lived to over 100, and many who never smoked who didn't live past 65, some much younger.
When our number comes up, we are dead.

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6942
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by yogi »

The tax system in this country, and perhaps any modern country, is ridiculously complicated. The complications are what make the entire system inequitable. Not being an economist or a government I can think of ways to simplify things, and that is what I was alluding to when I suggested churches should pay taxes. Any entity, individual, or corporation, that has an income should pay a tax on that income. I'm leaning in the direction of thinking a flat tax, say 1% of income would be appropriate. Microsoft would pay the same 1% that you pay on your income. A church and a beggar would pay the same tax rate as a giant conglomerate under my system of taxation. The current argument against making poor people pay taxes is that it is unfair to them. So, is the current system where billionaires pay only $750 in income tax any more fair?

Of course my idea is never going to happen because the Microsoft's of the world make the rules. Money = power, you know? Regardless, a church having an income is no different than a drug dealer having an income. They all should pay to live in this country.

I've learned that discussing the merits of smoking vs not smoking is about the same as discussing the merits of Windows vs Linux. LOL There are good and bad points on both sides. More importantly there are exceptions in all cases. I believe that life is a series of random events to which we must react. The opportunity for any random event to occur depends on the environment. Random events on the moon are not the same as random events here on earth, for example. So, I am playing the statistics game. I'm stacking the odds in my favor as much as possible. Does that mean I will live longer than my smoking friends? It's likely that I will, but as you clearly point out it is not a guarantee. I feel better psychologically, emotionally, and physically because I don't smoke. What works for me may not work for anybody else. Your mileage WILL vary.

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 4597
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by Kellemora »

I'm all for a flat tax, and never saw how it would be unfair to anyone.
Even so, it would have to be on NET Income, not on GROSS Income, which is the way the talks always seem to end up wanting.
As far as your last line. You KNOW that is totally FALSE!
How do you figure a prepaid tax amount of 1 million, plus 4 million, with the excess carried forward, so he only owed 750 bucks on the final quarters payment as being relative to what you were talking about.

That is how they got Al Capone! Income Tax evasion!

For me, smoking is a form of relaxation.
For others, it is their Speed Drug Coffee.
And for most it is starting at the idiot box for hours on end getting brainwashed, hi hi.

A few years ago, one of the major colleges did an extensive study on a simple flat tax scheme.
They viewed many different sources to see what the final affect would be for everyone, including the government.
The way our tax system works now, every time a dollar changes hands, it is taxed in one way or another.
Plus most of our major assets are taxed annually.
After looking at every venue that is taxed, and how much money the local cities and towns, county, state, and federal governments end up with. It was clear our current tax system hurts more people than it helps, especially the poor and lower class families. Even the poor who are not charged an income tax, were paying much of what they did have in taxes, and much of that was in the form of inflated sales taxes due to hidden taxes in the purchase price. Something I've been preaching about for years now.

At the very end of their study, they determined that only those individuals who earned an income via a paycheck, salary, personal draw, or income from investments should be taxed. No other entity, no business, no church, no taxes on assets such as personal property, real property, or saved monies that were already taxed.
If all other taxes were eliminated, including local specialty taxes, and only a single flat tax covered everything that was formerly taxed. Each person would only have to pay 2.8% flat tax. Each entity that uses tax dollars would have more income than they currently have. In some cases much more!
There would be no deductions of any kind, for any reason, if only individuals were taxed on their real income.
There study also went into how the funds should be disbursed, all handled by the federal government who would then allocate monies to each town, city, or local area, the county, and the state. How much each area received would be based solely on the population density of each area. They broke that down as well.

As an aside, if ALL Taxes, other than a flat tax were eliminated, 1% would not be enough to cover everything, and could not include special local interests the area residents wanted to fund. At 2% schools, seniors, and welfare could be raised. At 3% nearly all public venues that are free in some areas, but you have to pay for in others, would all be free, plus more open venues could be added because of that additional 0.2% over the 2.8%

Accounting to ensure against fraudulent unclaimed income was fairly simple. Every company who paid out wages, a salary, or interest would have to report this, just as they are doing now. They would withhold the tax from those checks. Self-employed would have to withhold their 2.8% when they took a draw for themselves.
Any increase in an asset, upon sale, would also be taxed as income to the individual selling such property.
If you have to sell at a Loss, there is no Deduction from what taxes you owe. It would be considered the same as gambling losses. You can however insure your asset against loss, and a payment from an insurance company is not income, it is to cover your loss.
Most of the money we currently pay in taxes never goes to the intended purpose.
Way too many agencies are set up to handle each type of tax, and most of those agencies could be eliminated.

They also brought up Registration Fees. Such as your car's license plate and the DMV.
There are many things we must register, such as the deed to our home, the title to our car, etc.
The agencies that handle those items can charge a fee for their services, which is not a tax.
However, the fees collected cannot be more than the actual cost of handling those transactions, including the salaries and lease on the buildings, etc. Any excess would go to the federal government, and any shortfall would be paid by the federal government.
They also covered seniors retirement income, medical expenses, hospitalizations, and many other things, all of which would be covered, and with more funds than are currently spent on seniors and the poor.
Speaking of the poor. If a poor person was getting 850 dollars a month in income, and that income was increased to 1,200 dollars a month, and they had to pay 33.60 of it. How is that a loss to them, how would it hurt them?
At 850 bucks a month, they are currently spending around 78 dollars in sales taxes. With sales taxes eliminated, they would be able to keep that 78 bucks a month. In other words, having to pay 33.60 cannot possibly hurt the poor.

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6942
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by yogi »

The study you refer to is interesting on the surface. I'm not familiar with it but I do know several such investigations have been conducted in the past and come to similar conclusions. The myriad of taxes we currently pay can be bundled into on flat rate and cover all the associated expenses. It's all theory, however, and generally a lot of assumptions are made during the study. That argument about a flat tax not hurting the poor among us is one of those assumptions. The fact is that the cost of providing the basics in life is the same for a poor person as it is for a wealthy person. A loaf of bread costs the same no matter who is buying it. A tax on a poor person might deny them that loaf of bread whereas the person with more resources would be buying artisan made bread freely. It would all work out after a certain period of time. Unfortunately nobody is keen on making such sea changes. Dramatic changes, even for the better, would cause undue harm and mental anguish to those billionaires who pay nothing these days. And that could be the greatest flaw with the study. It assumes the transition would go smoothly.

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 4597
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by Kellemora »

There were three basic things that using a flat tax would not change right away.
The price of the products we buy would not come down, even though much of what is hidden in the price is taxes.
In other words, once a retail selling price is established, it will stay there. But then too it wouldn't go up as often, so eventually it would balance out.
Salaries would not go up, but the employee's take-home pay would be higher. No raises for a long time.
Medical costs would also stay about the same as insurance companies scramble to determine new lower rate schedules that coincide with the reduction in medical costs.
There were many other things they covered in the articles, selecting certain fields where price gouging would take place, because they would refuse to cut their prices. One of those big ones was the automotive industry. The cumulative taxes that end up in the cost of an automobile would be gone forever, but unions will demand a larger cut of the excess profits.
They did talk extensively about the poor and needy. All of whom would get a major boost over what they currently receive. Will that cause more couch potatoes living on government dole or less? That they couldn't answer.

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6942
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by yogi »

So, if I understand your interpretation of the article correctly, the price of a gallon of gas would remain the same under a flat tax rate scheme. The assumption is that the oil company would retain the windfall profit. Thus, the oil company would be rewarded with twice (or more) the profits they used to make while the consumer pays the same price and gains nothing. To me that sounds like a poorly thought out consequence .

Likewise with the assumption that salaries would remain constant. Certainly the worker would be happy not to pay all those taxes yet retain the gross pay they always enjoyed. That in effect would be one hella raise and increase in disposable income that would contribute to acceleration of inflation. But even if we ignore that part of the formula, what incentive would the employee have to work harder and do better if no rewards in the form of raises would be forthcoming? No incentive would translate to a decrease in productivity and the employer would have to hire more people because his current staff isn't motivated to work hard and improve things.

I like the idea of a flat tax, but it obviously would need a lot of thought to implement and not destroy the economy.

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 4597
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by Kellemora »

As far as gasoline, the price at the pump would drop by around 56 cents per gallon or less depending on the amount of taxes added locally.
Most folks don't realize the price of gasoline is about the same all across the country, except for Alaska and Hawaii due to the higher shipping costs to get it to those two locations.
The wide swing in pump prices across the states has to do with how much they add in taxes.
The oil companies wouldn't raise their current prices, which has nothing to do with what was added by taxes.

Actually, with folks having more disposable income, they would have more purchasing power, not less. Higher sales for the companies would be a boon for them too. Salaries would remain stagnant for a short time, but not forever. It will take some time for things to balance out again. More sales means more profits and more workers needed to handle the extra production. I don't see it causing inflation at all.

I don't think you realize the affect of taxes on business is cumulative at each step along the chain of manufacturing and distribution. And the End Consumer is who gets hit with ALL of those cumulative hidden taxes.
Take my own product as an example: Roughly 17 cents per bottle is taxes. My Cost of Goods Sold is marked up by 8%, since I'm such a low volume manufacturer. This is much higher than other manufacturers, however, my Cost of Goods Sold does not include Labor, since I'm the sole owner. If I include my labor in the Cost of Goods Sold, it would be 4% markup.
That 17 cents tax on my product, excluding all the other companies between the manufacturer and retailer. When you buy my product, at the cash register you are paying 58 cents in hidden taxes, due to the markups of those in the middle, between me and the cash register.
If I did not have to pay that 17 cents, it would not cost YOU 58 cents at the register to cover it.

Let me check, I think I have this written out already somewhere showing how this happens.
Found It!
Taxes break down on my product through distribution to the retailer.

Like all businesses, our cost of goods sold includes all overhead and taxes we paid out.
Taxes alone account for 17 cents for each item sold, which is in the sale price.
Or in simple terms, that 17 cents goes to Uncle Sam, but it costs me nothing.
I’ve preached this many times on these forums, but I’ll break it down to a single item.
Why?
Here I’ll show you!
Once I determine my cost of goods sold, I add 4% when I sell to the mfgr. rep.
This will not sound like much right now, but that 17 cents becomes $ 0.1768 or rounded off to 18 cents to the mfgr. rep.
He uses a 10% markup (not counting his taxes in this, only what I paid), that 18 cents is now $ 0.198 rounded to 20 cents to the distributor.
He uses a 15% markup, so that 20 cents becomes $ 0.23 to the wholesaler.
Who uses a 25% markup, so that $ 0.23 becomes $ 0.2875, rounded up to 29 cents to the retailer.
The retailer doubles his cost, so the 29 cents becomes 58 cents that YOU the end consumer pays in hidden taxes, Just From My 17 cents that goes to Uncle Sam.
Each company in the chain is also adding their taxes before adding their markup. So there are a lot of hidden taxes you are paying for at the register. And every company makes a profit on those taxes. And by the way, our cost of accounting for those taxes for the government is also an expense included in the cost of goods sold.
So, taxing companies is only taxing yourself at a grossly inflated amount.

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6942
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by yogi »

The fundamental laws of supply and demand drive inflation. If the supply exceeds demand, prices fall. If demand exceeds supply, prices rise. The economics of it all is pretty simple.

You are mixing taxes in with markup and calling it all hidden taxes. In the real world they are two separate items. There is no denying that taxes are paid at every link in the supply chain and the consumer pays them all in the purchase price. Markup, as you have described it previously is pure greed. I have no argument against each supplier in the chain being entitled to a profit. But calling that profit a tax is a misuse of the term.

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 4597
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by Kellemora »

A company that is not making a profit is stagnant and cannot grow. Or worse, it is declining and will soon be out of business, which means all of their employees will lose their jobs.
Profits are necessary to expand the business, add more products, hire more employees, etc.
The sad thing is, taxing any business is detrimental to everyone, and one of the major things that drives inflation.
People have to earn more in order to pay the higher prices caused by inflation, but the government still only gets their dollar, but it costs the people 5 to 7 dollars for the government to get that dollar.
Now where do you think that 4 to 6 dollars goes, since it does not go to the government?

Let's say you buy widgets for 25 cents each, and all of your overhead combined is 25 cents.
How long would you stay in business selling those widgets for your true cost of 50 cents, for only 50 cents?
You would never recoup your initial start-up cost, nor the cost of your original stock of inventory.
As long as you are in business, your original outlay of cash to get started will never be repaid to you.

By the way, I never said that Profit was a Tax. What I said was we make a Profit on the Taxes we have paid out when we get it back through sales. Simply because it is included in the cost of goods sold before markup percentage common to the industry is added to determine the selling price.

Just like you understand computers one heck of a lot more than I do.
I think I understand the workings of a business more than most.
Remember, I was raised in a business family, and have owned several businesses.
So I know quite well how business functions. And where the money comes from.

I only showed you what happens with my product, without showing the whole picture of how taxes get compounded exponentially as they move up the chain of manufacturing and distribution.
I may not have an MBA degree or CPA license, but I've had all the same classes they have, and 60 years of experience.
So believe me when I say, no amount of taxes levied against a business is any skin of their nose.
It is ALL borne by the consumers at every level, with the End Consumer paying for it ALL.
And to add insult to injury, in many states and cities, the End Consumer is paying Sales Tax on all those hidden taxes.

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 6942
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 21:49

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by yogi »

You are correct to cite the fact that I lack any true business experience. That shortcoming does not affect my ability to distinguish "taxes" from "markup." It might not seem as if I understand what you are writing about, but you can rest assured that I comprehend every bit of what you have to say. Perhaps my disagreement with certain points you make are being interpreted as a lack of understanding. I don't blame you for taking that view. It's a pretty common reaction in any discussion or debate. I have the distinct impression, nonetheless, that you are telling me "hidden taxes" are built in to the price of anything we purchase as consumers. If they are so well hidden I am amazed and bewildered by your ability to recognize them. LOL My only argument is that I recognize them as well. Taxes are a part of doing business and add to the costs. They are not hidden. The businesses in the supply chain may increase their prices disproportionately to the tax rate, but to my way of thinking that is not a hidden tax. That is the need to make a profit, or in some cases outright greed.

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 4597
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 17:54

Re: Parrot Linux and Btrfs

Post by Kellemora »

Maybe if I put it this way you will see it better.
Building Lease - $1,000.00 per month
Utilities - $300.00 per month
Business License and Permit Fees - $20.00 per month
Manufacturing Equipment - $200.00 per month
Raw Materials enough for one month production - $10,000.00
Disposable Items used in the manufacturing process - $100.00 per month
Bottles, caps, and all packaging materials for one month production - $15,000.00
Labor to blend, assemble, and package the product - $18,500.00 per month
Last Quarter Taxes divided by 3 to get monthly cost - $880.00
I left out many small things, but this totals up to $46,000.00
Which is our Cost of Goods Sold for the month.
Production for the month is 9,200 bottles.
If we set our profit at 5%, we will only generate $2,300.00 taxable profit per month.
That is $6,900.00 per quarter, taxed at 38%, divided out to monthly tax burden of $880.00 shown above.
Cost of Goods Sold $46,000, plus 5% profit comes to $48,300.00 per month gross sales.
This means we sell our product to the manufacturers representative for $5.25 per bottle.

If we just look at the tax line of $880.00, plus the 5% markup added to it, that comes to $924.00
$924.00 divided by production of 9200 bottles means that just over 10 cents per bottle is what is added to the price we sell the bottle for. So we make a profit of $44.00 on the actual tax amount we paid out.
But there is more to that. Part of our overhead was accounting for these taxes. Figured in as part of total Labor Costs. This added Labor expense to account for taxes costs roughly $640.00 per month which adds 7 cents per bottle for tax accounting reasons.

Now, this 17 cents worth of tax hidden in our sale price of $5.25 to the mfgr. rep.
The mfgr. rep. also has taxes he paid, which he adds to his cost of goods sold, just like I did.
He paid $5.25 for the product, added his overhead and markup to sell to the distributor.
See my post a couple above this one to see what happens only to my 17 cents by the time it reaches the retailer, and what it costs the end consumer.
Now if you add in the taxes each link in the chain added before their markup.
You will easily see that for every 1 dollar the first company pays to the government in taxes.
The End Consumer is paying 5 to 7 dollars at the register.
I've been preaching this for over 20 years now, and nobody pays attention.
Taxing businesses is burning the End Consumer really bad, with no benefit to the government or the end consumer.

Post Reply