Page 1 of 2

Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 14:04
by yogi
Furthermore, Adobe also said that "Flash-based content will be blocked from running in Adobe Flash Player after the EOL Date," suggesting the company has added or plans to add a so-called "time bomb" in the Flash Player code to prevent users from using it starting next year.
Since I know you use Flash, I thought you might be interested in this article if you have not seen it already. ... -the-year/

Re: Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 16:03
by Kellemora
Killing Flash will cause a several billion dollar hit to Farcebook.
With over 1000 Flash based games played daily on Farcebook, and the revenues generated by them, can they sustain the hit?
Most of those games cannot run on HTML5 which is only a Display Program and has no multi-layered built-in graphics like Flash uses.
Some of the larger game providers have been working on a Flash Like Program so they can continue earning revenues from their games after Flash is killed off.

The game providers will not let this happen, they are already expending a lot of time and money in the development of FLASHPOINT, which already has something like 35,000 Flash Games available, and will run the on-line games as well.
I think they have the Windows version working pretty well, and are still ironing bugs out of Mac and Linux versions.
The problem I've heard is the Browsers may not want to allow a Flash like program to utilize their packages for on-line games, which would be curtains for Farcebook who rely heavily on the revenues. Some of the game providers are already changing how they work to still keep Farcebook in the loop, but will be offering a stand-alone version of their game that doesn't require direct interaction with Farcebook. Unfortunately the game I play does have to work with Farcebook.

Re: Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 17:21
by yogi
This EOL for Flash was first announced in 2017. Facebook and everybody else had been warned. The article does mention that they are in talks with Facebook, but there is no turning back. The games there must be designed to not require Flash by the end of this year. Chrome and a few other browsers are already warning people to kill and uninstall Flash. My personal feeling is that Facebook knows what it's doing and isn't going to be affected much if at all. Adobe was going to shut it down three years ago but extended their support til the end of 2020. I think it's interesting that Adobe is going one step further and disabling anybody from using Flash once the EOL is reached.

Re: Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 22 Jun 2020, 15:21
by Kellemora
Shame really. But it is because they built-in so many security holes they became impossible to plug them all up.

Other companies will jump on the bandwagon and take over where Adobe failed.

Re: Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 22 Jun 2020, 18:27
by yogi
The failure of Flash is that it gives the programmer control of the operating system. Normally you don't want to do that kind of thing just because of all the security risks. So now the hackers have become too smart to outwit. The only solution is to fold up shop.

Re: Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 23 Jun 2020, 15:03
by Kellemora
Technically, I agree with you!
The most hacked OS is Windows, so when are they going to close up shop? hi hi.

Kidding aside. Adobe could have built a sandbox for Flash to run in.
That is what I hear those who are gearing up to replace Flash are doing.

Re: Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 23 Jun 2020, 17:34
by yogi
Well ... Microsoft is still going strong, but Adobe is giving up the ghost with Flash.

Sandboxing isn't the solution for Flash. I'm not that familiar with it but I have read about some of the problems. Each operating system has a kernel, for example, and that is taboo for developers to manipulate; unless of course you are a Linux developer :rolleyes: . Allowing access to the kernel via a program means that the coder can break into the core of the OS and take charge. It's like leaving the front door to your house open and trying to secure everything inside from being stolen or damaged. At some point the effort isn't worth the rewards.

I keep telling you that HTML isn't a programing language, and certainly bears no resemblance to an operating system. However, you can embed non-HTML code into the markup and get HTML to do things it is not designed to do. All of that is done externally using the given resources of HTML. Only the control instructions are added to perform the task. My guess is that is what you are reading about for alternatives to Flash. Their approach to accomplishing the task is to add something to to core (kernel) instead of temporarily changing the way the kernel does things. Yes, Flash should have been written that way to begin with, but security wasn't an issue when Flash was invented.

Re: Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 24 Jun 2020, 15:21
by Kellemora
Every training website I go to refers to HTML as one of the programming languages.
It is not designed to be a programming language to write an OS with.
Neither is Python, Ajax, or any other side-scripting language.
Tons of programming languages out there, and each has a specific purpose.

I can easily put php code into html simply by adding <?php (the code here); ?>
It is handy to keep people from seeing how you caused something to happen, because viewing the html source code, in all areas where you used php it is invisible to them.

The BASIC programming language allowed for Peeks, Pokes, and Calls, directly to and from the Kernel on a 6502.
So why is it any different than Flash doing the same thing, if it is of course. I don't see it myself though. Flash can't change the Kernel without recompiling the Kernel and I know that is not happening.

What I know from reading what the game providers are saying is HTML5 is ONLY a method of displaying content.
There is nothing in HTML5 that can replace Flash or any multi-level graphics program.
Although Flash is just considered a content player, it is also a device of program construction as well, and has it's own instruction sets to do various things in it. Nothing at all like that exists in HTML5, or so they say.
Trying to convert a multi-level game from Flash to HTML5 would be like trying to convert a color printing press into a picture of a candy bar and expecting it to run thousands of newspapers per second. Not the same thing!

Re: Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 24 Jun 2020, 17:25
by yogi
What I know from reading what the game providers are saying is HTML5 is ONLY a method of displaying content.
Apparently I'm not the only one who realizes HTML (any version) is not a programming language. :lol:

Think of HTML as being the Style function in your word processor. Your documents would be nearly useless without using styles. So, are you programming when you create styles in LIbreOffice Write? I'd say, no, for the same reasons I'd say HTML and CSS are not programming languages. An even better analogy would be Word Star running in CPM. Do you recall using that and all the control characters you had to embed into the text in order to format the output? Well, that is exactly where HTML had its start. HTML is the Word Star for browsers. It was not exactly programming, but just as painful.

And I am very surprised that you, a stickler for correct usage of the language, would accept all those comments saying HTML is programming.

Flash is a security risk that it's inventor and curator (Adobe) will no longer support. Why or how that is all true really doesn't matter. Game developers have to wake up to the facts of life regardless. Flash is going away along with all the security problems it generates. In my view that is a good thing.

Re: Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 25 Jun 2020, 15:41
by Kellemora
So, Word Processing is NOT a computer program that generates text files on a computer?

A computer program is any set of instructions that allow you to manipulate data in such a way it can produce the desired result. The desired result of HTML programming is to render what is displayed by a web browser, which is also a computer program to achieve a desired result using a computer.

If HTML is not a programming language, then anything beyond pure Binary is not either.
Because it ALL has to be manipulated to achieve the desired result.
This is why we have Assembly Languages, to convert the data to a form usable for the purpose intended.

As an aside: Most programmers do not actually write code, or not much of it.
They are more like Package Assemblers, taking individual pre-written codes and lining them up where needed.
I think you call this Object Oriented programming, even though they are not writing code, just taking the work of others and putting it in a box. BASH, and Python, are great examples of Libraries of pre-written code!
Each of those items in the Library is a Program designed to do something. Even if only output the Date.
If they can output the Date and be called a programming language, then HTML that can output a Date can also be called a programming language.

A CPU has an Instruction Set. So you have to use whatever instructions which are built in.
It doesn't matter if you use C, C+, C++, or any other first tier programming language.
But what good is it if there are not other second, third and fourth tier programming languages to make them instructable.

HTML is a programming language using instruction the browser recognizes to render an HTML page.

Perhaps Flash with all it's problems reaching its end of life is a good thing.
But saying HTML5 can replace Flash is like saying a VW Bug can replace a Moving Van and haul the same amount of stuff.
It is impossible.
Just because I have a Monitor doesn't mean I can tune into channel 5 TV shows without having a tuner for that purpose.
Flash is more like the TV Tuner!
So, someone just needs to build a better Tuner, and many are working on it.

Either that or completely rewrite the programs that run on Flash to do all the things flash did so it can be rendered on an HTML5 display window.

I think back over the years of all the Programs I bought and paid for to do certain things.
It didn't matter the exact language they used to write the program.
But the program still required INPUT to function.
If it is not simple text, it could be that the program had an instruction set you could use to make it do certain things.
As long as you followed the protocol for their instruction set for that program, you could program that program to do what you wanted it to, within the limitations of said program.

Nearly every set of instructions is paired up with a name so folks understood what that instruction set pertained to.
In the case of Web Browsers, they call the instruction set to write things that appear in it HTML.
Sure, you can use PHP, Python, JavaScript, and many other programming languages to generate an HTML page.
But those programs MUST use the HTML instruction set established by the Browser. Else the browser won't know what to do.

I know, I'm harping on it.
"A programming language is a notation for writing programs, which are specifications of a computation or algorithm.[3] Some authors restrict the term "programming language" to those languages that can express all possible algorithms.[3][4] Traits often considered important for what constitutes a programming language include:"
But here is where you win! It has to do with the word USUALLY.
"A programming language is a vocabulary and set of grammatical rules for instructing a computer or computing device to perform specific tasks. The term programming language usually refers to high-level languages, such as BASIC, C, C++, COBOL, Java, FORTRAN, Ada, and Pascal."
And I'll leave it at that, with you win!

Re: Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 25 Jun 2020, 16:22
by yogi
Let it be known and understood that what we discuss here is not a competition. In my humble opinion there are no winners or losers. We agree and disagree to roughly the same extent because our interests are similar but not identical. While the mission statement for this website was interred when the masses migrated elsewhere, the gist of it still applies. The idea here is to learn about other people and the things they are interested in. The interaction and exchange of ideas ultimately enriches the minds and spirit of us all. We are all winners in that regard.

Re: Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 26 Jun 2020, 15:15
by Kellemora
I honestly think words don't have much meaning any more when it comes to defining what something is.

Folks fill in the blanks on a WordPress Template and claim THEY wrote a new Website.
I could keep going with thousands of examples too!

If I wrote a new high level word processing program like Word or Writer, which of course would only work on an existing OS like Windows, Mac, or Linux. Would you consider that a computer program?
Or would it have to work on any computer without an OS for it to be called a computer program?

They call programs like Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and others, Operating Systems.
They rely on the Debian Operating System to function, because they are only bells and whistles added to Debian.
So technically, they, in and of themselves, are NOT an Operating System, but an add-on to an existing OS.

Does what Language they were written it determine if they are an Operating System or if they are a Computer Program.

"Is HTML a coding language?
Technically, HTML is a programming language. In fact, HTML stands for Hypertext Markup Language. Whether or not HTML is a real language is a matter of semantics, and not terribly important."

Here is a list of what is considered the best programming languages.
I did notice HTML is missing from this list. But it appears on many others as a programming language.

"If the experts interviewed, as well as web tech sites, including TechRepublic, are to be believed, there seems to be a general consensus of the best languages:
Node 1

I would love to see someone write an new OS using Python! Yet it is called a programming language.

I failed to find the list I saw the other day that listed numerous programming languages and their main purposes.
But it included HTML as a major language many of the others used as output.

Re: Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 26 Jun 2020, 18:53
by yogi
I'm not inclined to debate semantics. As you are hinting in your above response, it's all relative. There are working definitions for all technical terms because one must be very precise and accurate when dealing with technical matters. Unfortunately, many of those technical matters leach out into the general population where terms and concepts become bastardized. Well, that doesn't change the fundamental truths. I explained HTML in a previous reply which you might have read before this. I stand by that explanation.

There are times when using the correct terminology is critical; when doctors are discussing your case, for example. When a patient talks to the same doctor as did his peer, the dialog changes. A few doctors I've met were very clear about how uninformed their patients are. The doctors I prefer to deal with are those who understand what I'm talking about sans a medical degree. I think we are at that point. I just can't figure out which one of us is the doctor. :lol:

Re: Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 27 Jun 2020, 14:55
by Kellemora
I hear ya Yogi, and agree 100%.

I know many words and phrases and initials picked up since computers became popular that totally bastardized their true meaning. For years they called a Monitor a CRT. CRT of course stands for Cathode Ray Tube, which is only one component of the Monitor. There is a reason a TV was called a TV SET, which has long since been truncated to just TV.

You already know about me beef with the word BANDWIDTH, used in a totally illogical way, hi hi.

Misuse of words does lead to great confusion for a lot of people.
And it sometimes gets hilarious when people using it the wrong way try to explain their way is the correct way. Again, BANDWIDTH is an example of them explaining their own meaning for a word that has an entirely different and longstanding definition associated with it.

How do you know the right words when they are used interchangeably across the board by different people, sometimes even talking about the same thing. About the only way is to include descriptive adjectives with each word. Which most folks don't do, they just use the lead word which applies to all kinds of things. Something of which I'm guilty of doing all the time.

Re: Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 27 Jun 2020, 18:12
by yogi
Woo hoo ... I just read where Ulyana (Linux Mint 20) has been released. I did not want to download the beta but now the stable release is available. I'm going to download it today and fire up my VirtualBox to put yet another Linux on a Stick. Stay tuned for details. :cool:

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program.

I've been told that English is one of the most precise languages around. That could be true in theory, but it's not the case in practical communications. Talking "bandwidth" to a bra manufacturer isn't the same as using that term with an amateur radio operator, and neither of those resemble what a troll on Facebook would understand. The official meaning(s) of the word is in the dictionary, but few people, if any, go to the dictionary before they speak. Words take on a specific meaning due to the context in which they are used. The complication is that it's not just the literary context that changes the meaning, but things such as culture and geopolitical location does it too. Talking to a Cajun in Louisiana is not the same as talking to a farmer in Vermont. In fact you would think you are in two different countries if all you knew was how these people talk.

Part of my success in explaining things is that I've acquired a skill that can simplify complex ideas. I know the technical terms as well as the everyday common usage, and I know when it is appropriate to use each style. So, I'm not offended when somebody misuses bandwidth. In most of the IM and chat forums I visit English is replaced with text-speak. I still don't know how to convert most of that, but I do enjoy trying. LOL I'm certain you know all of what I just said. You simply have higher standards and expectations. I just go with the flow and hope I don't drown.

Re: Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 28 Jun 2020, 14:33
by Kellemora
I have Linux Mint 19.3 on the new computer I got for Debi. It gets tons of updates every week, sometimes more than one per day. Wonder if that is what became Linux Mint 20?

I think technically English is: Mainly because it has a word for nearly every situation or item type, etc.
That is unless you move south of the Mason/Dixon line: Down here they use one word for everything associated with a line of products or devices, hi hi.

Back when I was repairing gaming machines, I often had to talk to those using a machine to try and figure out what problem they were having. Depending upon which age group they all had a different name for each part of the machine, none of which were even close in most cases. But then they sometimes surprise you and not only know the jargon, but can pinpoint what component appears to be causing the problem. One old guy nailed it nearly every time too!

I taught carpentry for Votec, and had to travel to Tempe, Arizona to teach the class.
Took me the good part of a semester to even understand what those kids were saying.
Most of their talk was lower class street jargon. Still was between themselves, but they quickly learned to speak proper English to me if they wanted help with a lesson. They knew my job was as a volunteer, but not necessarily the reason I was a volunteer. They just assumed it was a punishment of some type over something bad I must have done. I never let them know it was required to get my own GC license. That requirement was dropped a few years later, figures.

Re: Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 28 Jun 2020, 16:19
by yogi
Sometimes I don't know if I should feel proud or pissed. All too often I'll meet a younger person (there aren't too many older than me these days) who is astounded that I even know what a computer is. Then to learn I have a TikTok account, can write my own Tweets, play Witcher 3, and run my own website as well just blows them away. They are profiling me and that's what irks me, but, on the other hand, there are a lot of folks my age who only know how to post photos of their grandchildren on Facebook - those grandchildren made the account for them because that was too difficult to figure out on their own.

Facebook is a world onto itself but that's not where the kids hang out anymore. There are a number of alternatives and they all seem to have their own jargon and method of communicating. We had to get the wire service folks from Spectrum out here one day when we moved televisions around. One of the jacks did not have a signal and I did not want to open their junction box to find out why. But, I did swap cables and such to prove the signal was missing. The service tech told me I violated the TOS for free wire service, but he said I apparently know what I'm doing and didn't charge us. I think the fact that I knew what a splitter was impressed him. I didn't realize there was a splitter in that box and was expecting all the jacks to have a signal. Only three of the half dozen do. My point is that he too was profiling me until I spoke in his language.

Re: Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 29 Jun 2020, 15:30
by Kellemora
I've been getting that since I was in my 50's.

Apparently the pesticide company I've used since moving south sold out to another company who is still using their same name. All different folks though, and most of the guys doing the treatments are really young. I would say, 18 to 20.

The old company knew the routine and what products to use, since we do have pets.
I always watch when they mix the pesticide. They are supposed to keep a record of how much they use and at what dilution. I noticed this new company doesn't use the dispenser type bottle, but an unmarked measuring cup. Then I saw him put a gallon and a half of water into his sprayer.
So I went outside and asked him if he planned on coming back in a week.
He just looked at me, like no, then said, I won't be back for three months.
I then said, I think you had better use the correct amount of pesticide per gallon then, and not be using too little per gallon and then adding an extra half gallon water.
I then said, let me see your record of what you are using here, he showed 8 oz per gallon on his report.
I said you need to add 6 more ounces to get your dilution correct.
Then he went on this spiel about being a licensed pesticide applicator, and he knows exactly how much to use.
While he was ranting on, I reached into my pocket, took out my billfold, and showed him my Pesticide Applicators License. He suddenly changed his tune real fast, and went ahead and added 6 more ounces of pesticide to his tank, and made the adjustment to his record to show he used 12 ounces to 1.6 gallons of water, which is the correct dilution for that particular pesticide. At least he did use the right kind, which is more expensive than the normal ones they use.

We always have these guys stopping by that do the same services wanting us to change to them.
Some of them are downright crazy on their prices too.
Had one who wanted 245 bucks for the first treatment and 115 bucks every three months.
I told him it would be illegal for him to do a first treatment on a yard that has already been treated quarterly.
He tried to tell me know, we do all kinds of things, like clean spiderwebs, put down granules, etc.
So I asked him, what is the maximum amount of Demand G you can use on a 1000 sq. ft. property per quarter?
He didn't know! BYE!

Re: Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 29 Jun 2020, 17:45
by yogi
I don't like being talked down to, nor do I appreciate a snow job. The reason service people tend to do that is because most of their clients are ... uninformed. When I did desktop support at Motorola I went out of my way to explain things to people in a way they would understand. To be honest I wasn't any smarter than the other techs, but people liked me because they thought I was. LOL

Re: Adobe Time Bomb

Posted: 30 Jun 2020, 13:53
by Kellemora
I think I mentioned at my old house in St. Louis, my furnace was the original install and was 45 years old.

Every time I hired a furnace company to come out and clean it and the duct work for me, they told me I had a cracked heat exchanger. I knew I didn't because I had carbon monoxide detectors inside the duct work.

When I tell them to show me where the crack is, they would either say you can't see it from this side. Or they would take an ice-pick and poke around on the outside of the welded seam.
I think it was their job to try and sell a new furnace rather than do what they were hired to do.
The reason my furnace lasted so long is simple. It had no AC evaporator in it, so therefore no dripping water or humidity in the furnace to cause it to rust out. The humidifier was also in the duct work away from the furnace.

Each time I would call their boss to complain about the lies told by their service guy, and also told them I would never call them again. After 20 years of this, I think I went through all of them in the phone book too.