I had a small booklet many years ago, actually a few of them covering different topics.
One I liked a lot was about the banking system. I think the title was Billions for the Bankers.
Another I had explained the difference between a republic and a democracy from over 50 different angles of study.
And in all but perhaps two cases, a democracy always ended in failure. And even those two cases were questionable because the direction they were going was toward failure.
The book basically took numerous scenarios, and how they would play out under a democracy or under a republic.
In almost all cases shown in this book, under a republic the people maintained control of government, but under a democracy the people lost control of the government and it continued to grow bigger and cost more to the breaking point.
There was corruption on both sides of the fence, however, the people were able to remove the corruption in the republic, but were basically unable to in a democracy since they really had no voice anymore.
The book did not compare political parties at all, it was not about Republicans vs Democrats, heck, it wasn't even about conservatives vs liberals. It only talked about forms of government, including socialism and communism.
It touched on dictatorships, and royal family rule as well. But most of that part was based on simply known historical events over a thousand years give or take.
I had one other book that talked about taxes. In summary, it merely pointed out that every great country fell when their tax based crossed 25%, unless there was some force artificially holding it together for a short time.
The U.S. has long crossed this dangerous tipping point, and is obviously being artificially held together, but can't last.
Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
Re: Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
I would have to concede that nothing lasts forever. However, the failure scenarios you mention regarding democracies and financial systems are theoretical. I believe it's safe to assume that at some point in the future humankind itself will disappear, and consequently all the institutions invented by our societies will bite the dust. The fact that our democratic republic has survived nearly 250 years is significant. Should our system self-destruct this year, does that truly mean democracy is a failure? It would be difficult for me to come to that conclusion given all the quality of life improvements and progress we have made since 1776. I also find ambiguity in that 25% tax base you refer to. That much tax for a person living in poverty would be devastating, but not so much to a multi-billionaire. It's also a matter of how you choose to measure the base. Are we talking individual income or something like GDP? The ramifications are completely different in each of those cases.
None of the above is to say that any one political system or base tax is sustainable ad infinitum. There still is no better system than the economic and governance ones we have enjoyed for so long. Destroying it would be a mistake.
None of the above is to say that any one political system or base tax is sustainable ad infinitum. There still is no better system than the economic and governance ones we have enjoyed for so long. Destroying it would be a mistake.
Re: Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
The book I was reading was using the conglomerate of taxes divided by the population as a percentage. Much in the same way many things are calculated. This doesn't mean the poor are paying the same amount as the rich, except in some areas of taxation where it is the same tax for all, such as sales tax, gasoline tax, excise taxes, etc. That has no bearing on whether you are rich or poor, each person pays the same taxes. Property taxes go by the size and value of the property, so in this case, the poor pay less because they have less, and the rich pay more because they have more.
Most people have no idea exactly how much they pay out in taxes over the course of a year.
They only know about their income tax, and other major taxes like property taxes, and personal property taxes.
They don't stop to consider the tax on the fuel they buy for their car, the taxes on their utilities, excise taxes, and although they know about sales taxes, they forget to consider those also.
Way back around 1984, perhaps 1988, I kept track of every dime I paid in taxes, and calculated how much it was as a percentage of my income. It came to a staggering 62% of my income went to taxes. And this did not include anything associated with my businesses, it was all simply my personal expenses. Did the same thing for my wife, and hers came out to like 59%, however, some of her income came from non-taxed sources.
One of my teachers, who happened to be a Democrat, just like my family was back then, considered a Pure Democracy as nothing more than Mob Rule. The only way a Democracy can work is if it has checks and balances, which would then make it a Republic wouldn't it. Having a house and senate is a fairly decent form of checks and balances, and the senate is supposed to insure compliance with national directives which the house almost always tries to go against.
I try to stay out of the working of politics, but by the same token, try to make sure those I vote for are on the same page as I am on.
Most people have no idea exactly how much they pay out in taxes over the course of a year.
They only know about their income tax, and other major taxes like property taxes, and personal property taxes.
They don't stop to consider the tax on the fuel they buy for their car, the taxes on their utilities, excise taxes, and although they know about sales taxes, they forget to consider those also.
Way back around 1984, perhaps 1988, I kept track of every dime I paid in taxes, and calculated how much it was as a percentage of my income. It came to a staggering 62% of my income went to taxes. And this did not include anything associated with my businesses, it was all simply my personal expenses. Did the same thing for my wife, and hers came out to like 59%, however, some of her income came from non-taxed sources.
One of my teachers, who happened to be a Democrat, just like my family was back then, considered a Pure Democracy as nothing more than Mob Rule. The only way a Democracy can work is if it has checks and balances, which would then make it a Republic wouldn't it. Having a house and senate is a fairly decent form of checks and balances, and the senate is supposed to insure compliance with national directives which the house almost always tries to go against.
I try to stay out of the working of politics, but by the same token, try to make sure those I vote for are on the same page as I am on.
Re: Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
I had to laugh a bit when you referred to pure democracy as being mob rule. It turns out the Russian Mafia (mob) is embedding itself into the republic side of this country. I wonder how that happened. 
It's still difficult for me to see a standard basis for taxation that has been shown to consistently destroy a nation. I am skeptical, but it would not be out of the range of reality for a person to pay 60% in aggregate taxes. That number, however, depends on how an individual spends their money and how clever their tax accountant might be. People I've talked to in Great Britain like to speak of the free services they get from their government, such as healthcare, minimum income (dole), and housing. I laugh at them too because noting is free. They do indeed pay a lot of taxes, close to that 60% figure in fact, in order to receive all those benefits. As far as I can tell they are still going strong as a country and they are a lot older than we are.
It's still difficult for me to see a standard basis for taxation that has been shown to consistently destroy a nation. I am skeptical, but it would not be out of the range of reality for a person to pay 60% in aggregate taxes. That number, however, depends on how an individual spends their money and how clever their tax accountant might be. People I've talked to in Great Britain like to speak of the free services they get from their government, such as healthcare, minimum income (dole), and housing. I laugh at them too because noting is free. They do indeed pay a lot of taxes, close to that 60% figure in fact, in order to receive all those benefits. As far as I can tell they are still going strong as a country and they are a lot older than we are.
Re: Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
You just hit the nail on the head as far as one problem in how what we call taxes is often not really a true tax at all.
We pay several FEES for services under the word TAXES. The thing is, most of those Fees do not actually go into the governments coffers, except temporarily until they pay for the service.
Since moving to Missouri, you've probably noticed that many of our attractions, such as the zoo, science center, Planetarium, museums, etc. do not charge admission. They may charge for extra things inside, such as shows or special activities.
The reason they are free is because we voted to add those fees to our taxes, as fees, usually with an expiration date.
All monies collected from those taxes for that purpose must go to them without taking out servicing or handling fees.
But on the bright side, we get to deduct them from our income as taxes. But this is because donations are also already tax deductible. But you don't want to do it that way because it would be less of a deduction.
There are some taxes for services where the government does bilk us big time. Mainly because government is inefficient in how they do things.
Here is a good example: We used to have Wilson Refuse pick-up our trash. They ran the same route twice per week, but that didn't mean you had to put your cans out twice a week, and most folks didn't. When I first moved to Creve Coeur, it was 25 bucks a month, 30 if you had them pick up the cans beside your garage, which is what we opted for.
Over the course of about ten years, the cost had gone up to 40 for curbside, 50 for them to get your cans. The thing is, other people who used other garbage companies were paying a bit more than we were.
So the government decided to hire a lousy garbage company and provide garbage pick-up for everyone. To do this they upped our property taxes by 60 bucks. We now only had once a week pick-up, and no at the house pick-up anymore. This was not an option we got to vote on either! Nearly everyone in our subdivision and the two or three subdivisions around us that were originally serviced by Wilson, all filed formal complaints with the city over the higher cost than what we were paying, with them claiming it was cheaper, when it wasn't.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, or so they say. Our zone got our taxes cut by 15 dollars, and they rehired Wilson to handle our zone, but only once a week pick-up and no beside garage pick-up. This was actually a boon for Wilson because it was like a 10 dollar increase in the price they charged for their service. Plus they didn't have to do anymore individual billing. And that is the way it stayed for the rest of my time living there.
But here too, where we used to pay for garbage pick-up ourselves, and although we are technically paying more through our taxes, the taxes were tax deductible, so it came out to about what we were paying before, as far as our actual out of pocket. But then too, that only worked if you could itemize deductions, if not, well, you didn't get a break, hi hi.
The book I read clearly distinguished Service Fees paid under the guise of Taxes, vs actual Taxes.
For example: Is FICA really a tax, or is it more like a saving account? Yeah, I know, a Ponzi Scheme, hi hi.
Regardless of what some taxes are claimed to provide, for the most part, they really are taxes and not fees under the guise of taxes.
We pay several FEES for services under the word TAXES. The thing is, most of those Fees do not actually go into the governments coffers, except temporarily until they pay for the service.
Since moving to Missouri, you've probably noticed that many of our attractions, such as the zoo, science center, Planetarium, museums, etc. do not charge admission. They may charge for extra things inside, such as shows or special activities.
The reason they are free is because we voted to add those fees to our taxes, as fees, usually with an expiration date.
All monies collected from those taxes for that purpose must go to them without taking out servicing or handling fees.
But on the bright side, we get to deduct them from our income as taxes. But this is because donations are also already tax deductible. But you don't want to do it that way because it would be less of a deduction.
There are some taxes for services where the government does bilk us big time. Mainly because government is inefficient in how they do things.
Here is a good example: We used to have Wilson Refuse pick-up our trash. They ran the same route twice per week, but that didn't mean you had to put your cans out twice a week, and most folks didn't. When I first moved to Creve Coeur, it was 25 bucks a month, 30 if you had them pick up the cans beside your garage, which is what we opted for.
Over the course of about ten years, the cost had gone up to 40 for curbside, 50 for them to get your cans. The thing is, other people who used other garbage companies were paying a bit more than we were.
So the government decided to hire a lousy garbage company and provide garbage pick-up for everyone. To do this they upped our property taxes by 60 bucks. We now only had once a week pick-up, and no at the house pick-up anymore. This was not an option we got to vote on either! Nearly everyone in our subdivision and the two or three subdivisions around us that were originally serviced by Wilson, all filed formal complaints with the city over the higher cost than what we were paying, with them claiming it was cheaper, when it wasn't.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, or so they say. Our zone got our taxes cut by 15 dollars, and they rehired Wilson to handle our zone, but only once a week pick-up and no beside garage pick-up. This was actually a boon for Wilson because it was like a 10 dollar increase in the price they charged for their service. Plus they didn't have to do anymore individual billing. And that is the way it stayed for the rest of my time living there.
But here too, where we used to pay for garbage pick-up ourselves, and although we are technically paying more through our taxes, the taxes were tax deductible, so it came out to about what we were paying before, as far as our actual out of pocket. But then too, that only worked if you could itemize deductions, if not, well, you didn't get a break, hi hi.
The book I read clearly distinguished Service Fees paid under the guise of Taxes, vs actual Taxes.
For example: Is FICA really a tax, or is it more like a saving account? Yeah, I know, a Ponzi Scheme, hi hi.
Regardless of what some taxes are claimed to provide, for the most part, they really are taxes and not fees under the guise of taxes.
Re: Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
As far as I can tell I'm paying real estate taxes to St Charles County. They do not provide waste management services. The City of O'Fallon does. As it happens, the city of O'Fallon contracts it out to somebody else, but they are the official collection body. Waste management is tied into my water bill, and from there it gets tricky. There is a cost for water, but there are (minimal) fees and taxes similar to what the gas and electric companies tack on to their distribution costs. So, you bring up a good question. Am I paying a fee or a tax? The answer is both.
The concept of taxation gets murky if you delve into it too deeply. The cost of providing a service or a product includes any taxes paid by the producer. That part of the production costs cannot reasonably be itemized per unit sold. Thus it's an overhead entry in the books. The buyer may pay a use/sales tax, but that is at the point of sale and not retrospective of previous undefinable taxes paid by somebody else.
As I told my friends in the UK, all the free services provided by their government are paid for in taxes. The problem I see is not so much as one of inefficiency as one of ambiguity. Nobody knows what it costs to run a waste management service until they have to pay the bills. Then they just up the taxes accordingly. Obviously it's not that simple, but it comes across that way when I look at my real estate tax bill. The individual budget items are listed and totaled to a final cost number. The tax I pay, however, is the result of a "multiplier" applied to the value of my property. Both the assessed value and the multiplier are arbitrary. They look at the bills needing to be paid first, then calculate the values and multipliers.
The concept of taxation gets murky if you delve into it too deeply. The cost of providing a service or a product includes any taxes paid by the producer. That part of the production costs cannot reasonably be itemized per unit sold. Thus it's an overhead entry in the books. The buyer may pay a use/sales tax, but that is at the point of sale and not retrospective of previous undefinable taxes paid by somebody else.
As I told my friends in the UK, all the free services provided by their government are paid for in taxes. The problem I see is not so much as one of inefficiency as one of ambiguity. Nobody knows what it costs to run a waste management service until they have to pay the bills. Then they just up the taxes accordingly. Obviously it's not that simple, but it comes across that way when I look at my real estate tax bill. The individual budget items are listed and totaled to a final cost number. The tax I pay, however, is the result of a "multiplier" applied to the value of my property. Both the assessed value and the multiplier are arbitrary. They look at the bills needing to be paid first, then calculate the values and multipliers.
Re: Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
I was raised in Des Peres, Missouri.
We built a police and fire department.
The monies that paid for it were from the same monies we paid to St. Louis County, which the part of those taxes for sheriff was sent back to us to pay for the police department, and the part of those taxes to cover fire service was sent back to pay for our fire department. The city of Des Peres had no property taxes. The one and only tax the city of Des Peres collected was a 1% sales tax to cover its minimal administrative costs.
It wasn't until the poly-TICK-ians moved in and took over that all the new taxes were added, most of which went into their own pockets and not used for city services of any type.
My dad had a bowling buddy who decided to start a commercial trash hauling business.
Like most companies, he started with one truck he bought used, and sixteen old used dumpsters that were no longer used by a larger trash company who had switched the design they used.
He and his son sandblasted them to remove rust and the bright yellow paint, and repainted them with automotive primer and a metallic dark green automotive paint. He did his truck in the same color.
His competition at the time was charging like 85 bucks a month for commercial waste hauling, one pickup per week per dumpster. So he came in with a bid of 75 bucks a month.
Not counting maintenance of the truck, it cost him about 200 bucks a month for fuel and for emptying the truck at the dump even though it wasn't full they charged the same price.
He used half of his monthly income to buy four to six used dumpsters each month, sandblast and paint them. If he had the money, he could have done eight to sixteen a month, as he had that many potential clients waiting to switch over to him.
If the dumpsters on his stops were full, his truck could only hold about 15, but he said his average was 20 to 25 stops before he had to go empty the truck. It took roughly 6 hours to run each daily route, and he only ran Monday through Friday. His truck was serviced every Saturday.
When he got up to around 100 containers out, some places had more than one, so he had like 80 stops, with more customers waiting to come on board, he finally bought his second truck.
My dad was our company accountant so knew numbers quite well.
He showed me his calculations on what his friend was making, and said he couldn't see how he was doing so well.
Figured he wasn't making enough money to pay his son a decent wage, and live himself. Especially after taking half of his income each month to keep buying and renovating the dumpsters, plus getting them placed.
At the time, I was only making like eight grand a year, so seeing a gross income of ninety grand a year was a staggering figure to me. But then after you deduct the dump fee, maintenance, fuel, and obviously insurance and truck payments, that amount dwindled down considerably, but was still over forty grand a year.
My dad also assumed he paid a lot more for his truck than he did, as well as the dumpsters.
Turns out, as far as the dumpsters go, he was buying them as steel scrap, or about 15 bucks each, not the normal 450 bucks each they normally cost at that time, and putting about 50 bucks of labor and paint into each one.
He also only paid like twenty grand for his first truck, and about 30 grand for each of the ones he bought after that, those first few years. As other larger companies upgraded to the newer style truck, these were hard to sell, so the price was low.
In any case, his bowling buddy ended up becoming a millionaire, along with his son, and then he too began upgrading to the newer style trucks and the new style dumpsters. But before he did that, he added new backs on the trucks which added more space inside the truck. All of his trucks were overhead dump. It lifted the containers up over the roof of the cab and dumped them into the truck box. This was done with hydraulic arms. You may remember that style? And they were noisy to empty too.
His newer trucks, although similar, worked more like a conveyor system. They emptied the containers much faster, and made a whole lot less noise. Plus he was able to convert all of his existing dumpsters to use his new system fairly cheap, and at the same time, changed all the steel lids to light plastic lids, which did away with the springs too. The major feature was no more chance of flyaway debris when the dumpster flipped into the top chute as often happened on windy days with the old style overhead dump system.
He never told my dad how much he sold his business for, but it was a huge amount and he and his son both retired fairly young, the son was only in his early forties.
We built a police and fire department.
The monies that paid for it were from the same monies we paid to St. Louis County, which the part of those taxes for sheriff was sent back to us to pay for the police department, and the part of those taxes to cover fire service was sent back to pay for our fire department. The city of Des Peres had no property taxes. The one and only tax the city of Des Peres collected was a 1% sales tax to cover its minimal administrative costs.
It wasn't until the poly-TICK-ians moved in and took over that all the new taxes were added, most of which went into their own pockets and not used for city services of any type.
My dad had a bowling buddy who decided to start a commercial trash hauling business.
Like most companies, he started with one truck he bought used, and sixteen old used dumpsters that were no longer used by a larger trash company who had switched the design they used.
He and his son sandblasted them to remove rust and the bright yellow paint, and repainted them with automotive primer and a metallic dark green automotive paint. He did his truck in the same color.
His competition at the time was charging like 85 bucks a month for commercial waste hauling, one pickup per week per dumpster. So he came in with a bid of 75 bucks a month.
Not counting maintenance of the truck, it cost him about 200 bucks a month for fuel and for emptying the truck at the dump even though it wasn't full they charged the same price.
He used half of his monthly income to buy four to six used dumpsters each month, sandblast and paint them. If he had the money, he could have done eight to sixteen a month, as he had that many potential clients waiting to switch over to him.
If the dumpsters on his stops were full, his truck could only hold about 15, but he said his average was 20 to 25 stops before he had to go empty the truck. It took roughly 6 hours to run each daily route, and he only ran Monday through Friday. His truck was serviced every Saturday.
When he got up to around 100 containers out, some places had more than one, so he had like 80 stops, with more customers waiting to come on board, he finally bought his second truck.
My dad was our company accountant so knew numbers quite well.
He showed me his calculations on what his friend was making, and said he couldn't see how he was doing so well.
Figured he wasn't making enough money to pay his son a decent wage, and live himself. Especially after taking half of his income each month to keep buying and renovating the dumpsters, plus getting them placed.
At the time, I was only making like eight grand a year, so seeing a gross income of ninety grand a year was a staggering figure to me. But then after you deduct the dump fee, maintenance, fuel, and obviously insurance and truck payments, that amount dwindled down considerably, but was still over forty grand a year.
My dad also assumed he paid a lot more for his truck than he did, as well as the dumpsters.
Turns out, as far as the dumpsters go, he was buying them as steel scrap, or about 15 bucks each, not the normal 450 bucks each they normally cost at that time, and putting about 50 bucks of labor and paint into each one.
He also only paid like twenty grand for his first truck, and about 30 grand for each of the ones he bought after that, those first few years. As other larger companies upgraded to the newer style truck, these were hard to sell, so the price was low.
In any case, his bowling buddy ended up becoming a millionaire, along with his son, and then he too began upgrading to the newer style trucks and the new style dumpsters. But before he did that, he added new backs on the trucks which added more space inside the truck. All of his trucks were overhead dump. It lifted the containers up over the roof of the cab and dumped them into the truck box. This was done with hydraulic arms. You may remember that style? And they were noisy to empty too.
His newer trucks, although similar, worked more like a conveyor system. They emptied the containers much faster, and made a whole lot less noise. Plus he was able to convert all of his existing dumpsters to use his new system fairly cheap, and at the same time, changed all the steel lids to light plastic lids, which did away with the springs too. The major feature was no more chance of flyaway debris when the dumpster flipped into the top chute as often happened on windy days with the old style overhead dump system.
He never told my dad how much he sold his business for, but it was a huge amount and he and his son both retired fairly young, the son was only in his early forties.
Re: Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
I do indeed remember those overhead trash dumpsters. That was fairly new technology compared to what my first memories of trash collection are. Living in the city of Chicago proper meant we had alleys between blocks of houses. The alley was typically how you got into your garage and where you put the trash. The trash container was a concrete box with a lid and a front door made of metal. All our trash was put in brown paper bags that were in turn tossed into the concrete boxes. Once a week the bright orange city trucks would come down the alley and the crew would shovel the raw trash from the box into the hopper of the truck. If I recall correctly it was a four man crew, one of them being the driver. You probably had something similar where you grew up. A lot of people objected and complained when the city stopped shoveling the trash from the concrete boxes. They gave us all 55 gallon drums in which to put our trash. The same trucks came by to pick it up, but now two men would pick up the drum and toss the contents into the truck's hopper. This was a lot faster than shoveling. I've not been back to the city in decades and have no idea what they are doing now. My guess is they still use the back alleys.
After working at Motorola for half my life I was making a decent salary. It was probably half would I could have been making if I had a degree, but it came out to nearly $50k a year. By then we moved to the 'burbs. The trash collection was now automated and basically a one man crew. One day I got to talking with the guy who picked up the recycling stuff and it came out that entry level trash collectors were being paid around $25/hr. ENTRY LEVEL. I wasn't making that much after 30 years with the company. So, I'm not surprised that a person could retire in their early 40s by running a trash collection business.
After working at Motorola for half my life I was making a decent salary. It was probably half would I could have been making if I had a degree, but it came out to nearly $50k a year. By then we moved to the 'burbs. The trash collection was now automated and basically a one man crew. One day I got to talking with the guy who picked up the recycling stuff and it came out that entry level trash collectors were being paid around $25/hr. ENTRY LEVEL. I wasn't making that much after 30 years with the company. So, I'm not surprised that a person could retire in their early 40s by running a trash collection business.
Re: Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
When I was really young, we burned our trash in concrete block boxes with a screen to prevent flyaway. Whenever it was filled with ash, we moved the blocks over and a big truck came with a vacuum hose and sucked up all the ash. There was sometimes broken glass in the ash, and perhaps a metal lid, but all metal cans were set on top of the screen and got burned and then removed to burlap sacks hung inside the garage. About once a year the steel collection guy would come around and collect all the sacks of cans, emptying them into his truck and giving the sacks back. Usually the fire caused the bottoms of the cans to come off, so we would flatten the cans as we put them into the burlap sacks.
Later, after outdoor burning was no longer allowed, we normally took our trash to the dump we had at the florist.
But most other families paid to have their trash picked up by small trash haulers. Many of these were nothing more than pick-up trucks with dump beds on them. Our city dump was free back then too.
It wasn't until around the end of 1960 when we had real garbage trucks, and after we moved to a subdivision.
Where we used to live was now zoned commercial, and even though my uncle still lived there, he put his trash in the dumpster by his sons greenhouses right behind his house. But the residential areas all had garbage trucks.
From 1966 to around 1975, the subdivision where my mom and dad lived, I think they had the smartest trash company of all. Instead of using one of those trucks you dump trash cans into the back, they used a commercial type truck like those used to lift the big trash cans overhead and dump in the top.
Since most of the streets ended in a cul-de-sac, the big truck would just come down the main road through the subdivision and stop at an intersection. But before he got that far, these little golf cart style scooters would zip up and down the streets picking up the trash cans and dumping them into a smaller sized commercial waste container. Then when it got full, they would pull up in front of the big truck and stop. The big truck would pull up, lift the container off the cart, empty it and put it back onto the cart again. Then they would take off headed for the next pair of streets, and the big truck would follow after he compressed the garbage in his box first.
I'm sure doing it this way saved them a lot of time and money. They were fast and with very little noise.
The Saint Louis City garbage pick-up in alleys is done with a side loading truck that works sorta like the top loaders, only they just tilt the cans into the side of the truck. The sides have a ramp that pops out, sorta like the rear loaders, but no scraper. Not sure how they compact the trash to the back with that flip out part because the wings have to be going inside the truck. They couldn't do overhead dump due to all the wiring in the alleys.
In the 1980s, the subdivision where my aunt and uncle Herb lived, their trash trucks they called monkey trucks. It didn't matter what kind of garbage can you had, these trucks could stop, take the lid off, grab the can, swing it around to the back of the truck, empty it, swing it back, put the lid back on, and move onto the next can. Not that they always got the lid on right, hi hi. It was interesting to watch how these trucks worked. It had arms with curved hands that grabbed the can at the bottom tightly, and arms with bigger hands that grabbed the can around the top looser, then they would swing around to dump in the back. It really didn't look much more complicated than a backhoe, except instead of a bucket it had these arms and curved hands. The lid was removed in a similar fashion, a single arm and hand but it also had a hook and a clamp depending on the type of handle, if any, on the garbage can.
They didn't have any trouble until folks started getting the plastic cans. Some were too flimsy to pick-up and they had trouble getting the lids off. So after a few problems, they sent out a letter with approved cans in a list.
Of course that all changed when you had to buy hook front cans with flip lids. Not like the kind the cities provide.
Since this is the computer page. I picked up a paragraph or two from a website I landed on this morning.
While Linux-based operating systems, such as Ubuntu and Linux Mint, are not impervious to malware — nothing is 100 percent secure — the nature of Linux-based operating systems prevents infections.
While Windows 10 is arguably safer than previous versions, it is still not touching the top Linux Distributions in this regard.
Linux has great performance and is much quicker, faster and smoother, even on older hardware.
Windows 10 is slow compared to Linux because of running batches at the backend and Windows 10 requires good hardware to run.
Yes, Linux is more secure than Windows. It was more secure before, it is more secure now, and it will be more secure in the future. The main reason is not the market share, as often claimed, but the fact that the system is open source.
Although Microsoft and Linux are practically friends now, plus Microsoft is adding several Linux programs to their operating system, and there is talk of Windows migrating to the Linux kernel in the near future, bloat will still slow Windows down.
If security is your main concern go with BSD, if you want user friendly go with Ubuntu or Linux Mint.
Later, after outdoor burning was no longer allowed, we normally took our trash to the dump we had at the florist.
But most other families paid to have their trash picked up by small trash haulers. Many of these were nothing more than pick-up trucks with dump beds on them. Our city dump was free back then too.
It wasn't until around the end of 1960 when we had real garbage trucks, and after we moved to a subdivision.
Where we used to live was now zoned commercial, and even though my uncle still lived there, he put his trash in the dumpster by his sons greenhouses right behind his house. But the residential areas all had garbage trucks.
From 1966 to around 1975, the subdivision where my mom and dad lived, I think they had the smartest trash company of all. Instead of using one of those trucks you dump trash cans into the back, they used a commercial type truck like those used to lift the big trash cans overhead and dump in the top.
Since most of the streets ended in a cul-de-sac, the big truck would just come down the main road through the subdivision and stop at an intersection. But before he got that far, these little golf cart style scooters would zip up and down the streets picking up the trash cans and dumping them into a smaller sized commercial waste container. Then when it got full, they would pull up in front of the big truck and stop. The big truck would pull up, lift the container off the cart, empty it and put it back onto the cart again. Then they would take off headed for the next pair of streets, and the big truck would follow after he compressed the garbage in his box first.
I'm sure doing it this way saved them a lot of time and money. They were fast and with very little noise.
The Saint Louis City garbage pick-up in alleys is done with a side loading truck that works sorta like the top loaders, only they just tilt the cans into the side of the truck. The sides have a ramp that pops out, sorta like the rear loaders, but no scraper. Not sure how they compact the trash to the back with that flip out part because the wings have to be going inside the truck. They couldn't do overhead dump due to all the wiring in the alleys.
In the 1980s, the subdivision where my aunt and uncle Herb lived, their trash trucks they called monkey trucks. It didn't matter what kind of garbage can you had, these trucks could stop, take the lid off, grab the can, swing it around to the back of the truck, empty it, swing it back, put the lid back on, and move onto the next can. Not that they always got the lid on right, hi hi. It was interesting to watch how these trucks worked. It had arms with curved hands that grabbed the can at the bottom tightly, and arms with bigger hands that grabbed the can around the top looser, then they would swing around to dump in the back. It really didn't look much more complicated than a backhoe, except instead of a bucket it had these arms and curved hands. The lid was removed in a similar fashion, a single arm and hand but it also had a hook and a clamp depending on the type of handle, if any, on the garbage can.
They didn't have any trouble until folks started getting the plastic cans. Some were too flimsy to pick-up and they had trouble getting the lids off. So after a few problems, they sent out a letter with approved cans in a list.
Of course that all changed when you had to buy hook front cans with flip lids. Not like the kind the cities provide.
Since this is the computer page. I picked up a paragraph or two from a website I landed on this morning.
While Linux-based operating systems, such as Ubuntu and Linux Mint, are not impervious to malware — nothing is 100 percent secure — the nature of Linux-based operating systems prevents infections.
While Windows 10 is arguably safer than previous versions, it is still not touching the top Linux Distributions in this regard.
Linux has great performance and is much quicker, faster and smoother, even on older hardware.
Windows 10 is slow compared to Linux because of running batches at the backend and Windows 10 requires good hardware to run.
Yes, Linux is more secure than Windows. It was more secure before, it is more secure now, and it will be more secure in the future. The main reason is not the market share, as often claimed, but the fact that the system is open source.
Although Microsoft and Linux are practically friends now, plus Microsoft is adding several Linux programs to their operating system, and there is talk of Windows migrating to the Linux kernel in the near future, bloat will still slow Windows down.
If security is your main concern go with BSD, if you want user friendly go with Ubuntu or Linux Mint.
Re: Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
When people get into discussing the merits of Windows vs Linux the dialog is often more emotional than factual. I've always known that, and I'm sure you know it too, so that the burden for us listeners is to come away with a means to separate fact from fiction. Security has always been a huge talking point and one of the favored advantages Linux advocates liked to bring up. There was a time when it was abundantly clear that Microsoft's Windows users were being hit the hardest. The natural conclusion made mostly in Linux Land was that somehow Windows was flawed and more vulnerable than open sourced OS's. Think about it. If everybody in the world knows exactly how your OS works because the code is public domain, why would some secret and proprietary coding be intrinsically more vulnerable? That's simply counter intuitive. Yet, it could not be denied that Windows desktop users were being hit hard. How was that to be explained?
The obvious answer is more, many many more, people were trying to hack Windows than were trying to hack Linux. Assuming each OS is absolutely equal in terms of vulnerability to attack, one could reasonably conclude that the larger number of attempts at breaking into Windows explained the security reports. Well, my friend, the tides have turned. Windows no longer dominates the computing world. It's those mobile devices and the apps people download onto them that are being hit the hardest. And guess what. Those mobile devices are all Linux based - if I were to accept your definition of Linux. LOL
It could be argued that it's the people being stupid and not the weakness of the operating system that accounts for security numbers we see published. I agree up to a point with that observation. However, I am greatly concerned about the notices I'm receiving from major corporations with huge databases telling me their systems have been hacked. They don't know if I've been affected personally, but hey, here have this free identity theft insurance on us just in case. Each and every one of those major breaches are on Linux/Unix servers. When was the last time you heard of a Windows server being broken into? Don't tell me that's because there aren't many Windows servers to be broken into, because I'll come back at you with the attack vector numbers again. Only this time the bad actors are targeting LINUX and thus accounting for some major breaches. When they hack my Windows desktop what happens? They can get into my email and send out nasty messages. But when they hack into my Bank's computers and sell my login credentials on the Dark Web, they didn't get that information off a Windows server. You can count on that.
So, yes, there might be some truth to the article. I never read it so that I can't evaluate it. I can tell you that I have not had antivirus software permanently installed on any of my Windows machines since 1997, unless I was evaluating it for somebody else. Now, with Windows 10 there is no way to eliminate it, but I don't feel too bad because as safe as it's claimed to be, I still think it's useless. I realize that I may be attacked as I send this message out to you. That is the risk I'm taking. But I've been taking that risk for more than twenty years and have never been shut down yet by a Windows virus. I have had viruses (2 or 3 in that twenty years), but fortunately I was able to detect them on my own early and neutralize them.
You are bringing up some points I discussed elsewhere in this forum, and before I read the comments in this thread. I will concede that Windows 10 has a lot more software behind it than anything I've seen in all the Linux distros I've tested. In fact one of the reasons I'm evaluating Linux as a possible replacement for Windows has to do with a desire for a powerful yet highly responsive operating environment. I found a couple Linux OS's that fill the bill in fact. Neither one of those two high speed systems boot reliably in UEFI nor do they play well with nVidia hardware. Both my Windows installations boot fine and are blazing fast in graphics rendering. I'm not smart enough to tell you why that is the case, but I will concur with your observation. Having the right hardware to run Windows makes all the difference in the world. I recognize and sympathize with people who can't or won't go to the expense of upgrading just to run Windows. That is all fine and dandy with me. If you are happy, then so am I. But I have done my homework, and have a lot more to do. As of this writing I have yet to find a Linux distro equal to or better than Windows (7 in this case - I'm still evaluating 10)
The obvious answer is more, many many more, people were trying to hack Windows than were trying to hack Linux. Assuming each OS is absolutely equal in terms of vulnerability to attack, one could reasonably conclude that the larger number of attempts at breaking into Windows explained the security reports. Well, my friend, the tides have turned. Windows no longer dominates the computing world. It's those mobile devices and the apps people download onto them that are being hit the hardest. And guess what. Those mobile devices are all Linux based - if I were to accept your definition of Linux. LOL
It could be argued that it's the people being stupid and not the weakness of the operating system that accounts for security numbers we see published. I agree up to a point with that observation. However, I am greatly concerned about the notices I'm receiving from major corporations with huge databases telling me their systems have been hacked. They don't know if I've been affected personally, but hey, here have this free identity theft insurance on us just in case. Each and every one of those major breaches are on Linux/Unix servers. When was the last time you heard of a Windows server being broken into? Don't tell me that's because there aren't many Windows servers to be broken into, because I'll come back at you with the attack vector numbers again. Only this time the bad actors are targeting LINUX and thus accounting for some major breaches. When they hack my Windows desktop what happens? They can get into my email and send out nasty messages. But when they hack into my Bank's computers and sell my login credentials on the Dark Web, they didn't get that information off a Windows server. You can count on that.
So, yes, there might be some truth to the article. I never read it so that I can't evaluate it. I can tell you that I have not had antivirus software permanently installed on any of my Windows machines since 1997, unless I was evaluating it for somebody else. Now, with Windows 10 there is no way to eliminate it, but I don't feel too bad because as safe as it's claimed to be, I still think it's useless. I realize that I may be attacked as I send this message out to you. That is the risk I'm taking. But I've been taking that risk for more than twenty years and have never been shut down yet by a Windows virus. I have had viruses (2 or 3 in that twenty years), but fortunately I was able to detect them on my own early and neutralize them.
You are bringing up some points I discussed elsewhere in this forum, and before I read the comments in this thread. I will concede that Windows 10 has a lot more software behind it than anything I've seen in all the Linux distros I've tested. In fact one of the reasons I'm evaluating Linux as a possible replacement for Windows has to do with a desire for a powerful yet highly responsive operating environment. I found a couple Linux OS's that fill the bill in fact. Neither one of those two high speed systems boot reliably in UEFI nor do they play well with nVidia hardware. Both my Windows installations boot fine and are blazing fast in graphics rendering. I'm not smart enough to tell you why that is the case, but I will concur with your observation. Having the right hardware to run Windows makes all the difference in the world. I recognize and sympathize with people who can't or won't go to the expense of upgrading just to run Windows. That is all fine and dandy with me. If you are happy, then so am I. But I have done my homework, and have a lot more to do. As of this writing I have yet to find a Linux distro equal to or better than Windows (7 in this case - I'm still evaluating 10)
Re: Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
Hacker hit Windows because of the amount of time it takes to write the code, so they go after the largest user base first.
But as you pointed out, with so many now using Android, that has become a focal point for hackers.
With Linux being Open Source, any hacker can study the code looking for a back door, and sometimes they find one.
With Proprietary Software, is us more a hit and miss for hackers to find a back door.
But the big difference is, when they do, they spread the news around to other hackers.
This alerts all the eyes studying the code. For proprietary software this is only a few eyes looking, but for open source it is thousands of eyes looking, and a patch is usually out within only a few hours, not weeks or months as with proprietary.
My host provider offers both Microsoft Server, in three versions I think, and Linux servers.
Naturally they charge extra if you want to be on a Microsoft Server because it costs them a bundle to provide it.
I think I read somewhere right before they merged with another company that they were paying ten grand per server for the licenses. A lot of their bigger business accounts are using the Microsoft server versions, but not too many private users or small businesses. Must be some reason they want to pay extra? I've been told there is no advantage between them.
But as you pointed out, with so many now using Android, that has become a focal point for hackers.
With Linux being Open Source, any hacker can study the code looking for a back door, and sometimes they find one.
With Proprietary Software, is us more a hit and miss for hackers to find a back door.
But the big difference is, when they do, they spread the news around to other hackers.
This alerts all the eyes studying the code. For proprietary software this is only a few eyes looking, but for open source it is thousands of eyes looking, and a patch is usually out within only a few hours, not weeks or months as with proprietary.
My host provider offers both Microsoft Server, in three versions I think, and Linux servers.
Naturally they charge extra if you want to be on a Microsoft Server because it costs them a bundle to provide it.
I think I read somewhere right before they merged with another company that they were paying ten grand per server for the licenses. A lot of their bigger business accounts are using the Microsoft server versions, but not too many private users or small businesses. Must be some reason they want to pay extra? I've been told there is no advantage between them.
Re: Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
Twenty years ago when I was still working for a living the IT department frowned upon anything Linux. There were Linux servers about, but more UNIX than Linux. The big issue back then was support, or more correctly the lack thereof. They couldn't find anybody who would go under contract to provide the instant response time needed by enterprise level servers. Perhaps the greater detraction was the unspoken one. Nobody took Linux seriously and those who did were not well versed in it. Training IT people in the art of the Black Magic it takes to fix broken Linux servers was an expense greater than the licensing of Windows. That is the real reason companies still haven't moved to Linux.
My gut instincts tell me there are still just as many idiots using mobile devices as there were using desktops. The hackers go where the money is which explains why you don't hear a lot about individual attacks anymore. They are going after big databases where the owners can and will pay to ransom their systems back. Why bother to steal my bank account that I access on Windows when the same amount of effort will bring down Equifax? They could get a few thousands out of my bank, but we are looking at millions when it comes to big data. They follow the money, obviously.
I've learned a lot about UEFI and LInux during the last year. One of my motivations to learn was so that I could simulate what I was able to do freely and easily under the MBR machines I owned. Those MBR days are now gone and I've been able to solve a problem or two with UEFI unassisted. That's remarkable considering I had no idea what it was just a year ago. My self-imposed education confirmed all the bad things I've heard about Linux as well as exposed me to some of the new and bleeding edge OS's certain people are promoting. I like to think I did this objectively. I'd be nuts not to go with something better than what I already have. It would be a draw if I had to judge by functional capability alone. The cost of buying into Windows is justified in my mind by the extra effort it takes to maintain Linux. The really disappointing aspect of all this is the help I've not been able to get. Believe it or not you have given me more useful information than any of those self proclaimed experts and developers lurking in the Linux support forums. That's disappointing in a way. If there are smart Linux people out there, they are not willing to share their information with us peons. I guess that's why Motorola stayed with Windows servers so long.
My gut instincts tell me there are still just as many idiots using mobile devices as there were using desktops. The hackers go where the money is which explains why you don't hear a lot about individual attacks anymore. They are going after big databases where the owners can and will pay to ransom their systems back. Why bother to steal my bank account that I access on Windows when the same amount of effort will bring down Equifax? They could get a few thousands out of my bank, but we are looking at millions when it comes to big data. They follow the money, obviously.
I've learned a lot about UEFI and LInux during the last year. One of my motivations to learn was so that I could simulate what I was able to do freely and easily under the MBR machines I owned. Those MBR days are now gone and I've been able to solve a problem or two with UEFI unassisted. That's remarkable considering I had no idea what it was just a year ago. My self-imposed education confirmed all the bad things I've heard about Linux as well as exposed me to some of the new and bleeding edge OS's certain people are promoting. I like to think I did this objectively. I'd be nuts not to go with something better than what I already have. It would be a draw if I had to judge by functional capability alone. The cost of buying into Windows is justified in my mind by the extra effort it takes to maintain Linux. The really disappointing aspect of all this is the help I've not been able to get. Believe it or not you have given me more useful information than any of those self proclaimed experts and developers lurking in the Linux support forums. That's disappointing in a way. If there are smart Linux people out there, they are not willing to share their information with us peons. I guess that's why Motorola stayed with Windows servers so long.
Re: Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
Well, 20 years ago, Linux was still in its infancy stage.
Windows suffered the same types of problems during its infancy as well, if not more so because computer manufacturers were still not well organized either.
Most of the Basic Programs I wrote to help with my job on the 6502 microprocessor, would not convert over to the 8080a without a major rewrite of the code. I used my same code on the Apple II, Apple II+, and the horrible Lisa System. I also used some of my Basic Programs on my 286 Wang PC that ran both Wang and msDOS, and I think I put Windows 3.0 on this machine too. Naturally nothing I wrote would run on the Wang VS Mainframe, however, Wang did look at my code and wrote much better code for what I was doing with it, plus they had their own programs that replaced most of mine anyhow. I was just slow to transition some of the things I did to the way they did things.
And between me, you, and the lamp post, I liked Wang, even the smaller Wang OIS System that replaced the Wang VS for a few months before we closed up shop, more than any other computer I've ever used since. Well, until real recently when everything has changed for the better, sorta, hi hi.
There are many reason businesses remained with Windows computers on the floor.
Most of the employees will already be familiar with the Windows desktop, which saves a lot of money on training.
Although this is not true if they use their own in-house programs, which for those, it wouldn't matter which OS they were running on. But even with those, often an employee has to back out to the desktop, so once again, Windows is preferred.
As far as the back room goes, small to medium sized companies stick with Windows Small Office Servers because they are fully compatible with the machines out on the floor, and are usually maintained by the servicing company they chose.
But as you get into larger companies, you begin to see them drift to Linux, both for speed and cost effectiveness, even though they usually run Windows desktops on the floor, and most of those are often only dumb terminals.
When you get into really big companies, many of them have gone the mainframe route, which usually means Unix on the mainframe and Linux on all the support hardware for the mainframe. Again, here too they usually have Windows machines out on the floor. It simply makes good sense to do so! Or used to.
When you get into looking at the massive amount of chain stores out there, and they all need to be interconnected and have headquarters designed POS software, most of these stores have nothing more than dumb terminals that speak with the home office mainframe and server farm. The franchise or company stores often have no idea what OS is running in the POS boxes they are using, nor do they care. But I do know this from my wife's job before she retired. All of the POS boxes they leased out all had Linux Kernels, and a small, lightweight Linux OS, which is all that was needed to run the programs for the machine and its reporting or interconnections to the other hardware and home offices.
They had Windows Desktops on the floor where she worked, but the back end offices were all Unix/Linux and even some MAC machines were back there.
Coworkers she used to work with who became friends say the place is no longer like it was when she worked their.
They no longer care what you use, and will be glad to provide whatever machine you want. All it has to be able to do is connect to their Servers, and if you can get on-line with it at home, it will work there too. No data is stored on the individual machines anymore at all, it is all totally in-house, so you could even use your own machine if you want.
Their point in changing to doing things this way, is a good percentage of their workforce can do a lot of their work from home now. Although the way it was described to her, she don't know why they don't just write a computer program to replace the manual work, after all, it is already in their computer. But I sorta understand since I did transcription work.
I think in their case it is like double checking and entering batch files sent in from retailers when they close out for the day to make sure everything matches up properly.
I often wonder why Micro$oft doesn't come out with a Lightweight version of Windows that will run on older hardware. It seem like every time they come out with a new version, it requires everyone go out and buy a new computer big enough to be able to run it.
I think this is one area where Linux has the lead. Windows tries to put everything into one package, where in Linux you have a repository. When you install it on your machine, it only loads those programs your machine requires, and if you change a piece of hardware, it will usually go fetch the drivers and software for it, if possible. Linux don't have drivers installed for everything under the sun like Windows. Windows too will go out looking for drivers if not already installed.
But all that BLOAT in Windows, plus all the CRAPWARE they add along with it, is what slows down Windows computers so much.
Honestly, you are about the only person I talk with who likes Windows 10.
One other guy I talk with likes his Windows 10, but complains that most of his existing programs will not run on it. But he does admit that a lot of them are older and he can't afford to upgrade all of them anymore.
He recently switched from ms Office to Libre Office for that very reason.
Windows suffered the same types of problems during its infancy as well, if not more so because computer manufacturers were still not well organized either.
Most of the Basic Programs I wrote to help with my job on the 6502 microprocessor, would not convert over to the 8080a without a major rewrite of the code. I used my same code on the Apple II, Apple II+, and the horrible Lisa System. I also used some of my Basic Programs on my 286 Wang PC that ran both Wang and msDOS, and I think I put Windows 3.0 on this machine too. Naturally nothing I wrote would run on the Wang VS Mainframe, however, Wang did look at my code and wrote much better code for what I was doing with it, plus they had their own programs that replaced most of mine anyhow. I was just slow to transition some of the things I did to the way they did things.
And between me, you, and the lamp post, I liked Wang, even the smaller Wang OIS System that replaced the Wang VS for a few months before we closed up shop, more than any other computer I've ever used since. Well, until real recently when everything has changed for the better, sorta, hi hi.
There are many reason businesses remained with Windows computers on the floor.
Most of the employees will already be familiar with the Windows desktop, which saves a lot of money on training.
Although this is not true if they use their own in-house programs, which for those, it wouldn't matter which OS they were running on. But even with those, often an employee has to back out to the desktop, so once again, Windows is preferred.
As far as the back room goes, small to medium sized companies stick with Windows Small Office Servers because they are fully compatible with the machines out on the floor, and are usually maintained by the servicing company they chose.
But as you get into larger companies, you begin to see them drift to Linux, both for speed and cost effectiveness, even though they usually run Windows desktops on the floor, and most of those are often only dumb terminals.
When you get into really big companies, many of them have gone the mainframe route, which usually means Unix on the mainframe and Linux on all the support hardware for the mainframe. Again, here too they usually have Windows machines out on the floor. It simply makes good sense to do so! Or used to.
When you get into looking at the massive amount of chain stores out there, and they all need to be interconnected and have headquarters designed POS software, most of these stores have nothing more than dumb terminals that speak with the home office mainframe and server farm. The franchise or company stores often have no idea what OS is running in the POS boxes they are using, nor do they care. But I do know this from my wife's job before she retired. All of the POS boxes they leased out all had Linux Kernels, and a small, lightweight Linux OS, which is all that was needed to run the programs for the machine and its reporting or interconnections to the other hardware and home offices.
They had Windows Desktops on the floor where she worked, but the back end offices were all Unix/Linux and even some MAC machines were back there.
Coworkers she used to work with who became friends say the place is no longer like it was when she worked their.
They no longer care what you use, and will be glad to provide whatever machine you want. All it has to be able to do is connect to their Servers, and if you can get on-line with it at home, it will work there too. No data is stored on the individual machines anymore at all, it is all totally in-house, so you could even use your own machine if you want.
Their point in changing to doing things this way, is a good percentage of their workforce can do a lot of their work from home now. Although the way it was described to her, she don't know why they don't just write a computer program to replace the manual work, after all, it is already in their computer. But I sorta understand since I did transcription work.
I think in their case it is like double checking and entering batch files sent in from retailers when they close out for the day to make sure everything matches up properly.
I often wonder why Micro$oft doesn't come out with a Lightweight version of Windows that will run on older hardware. It seem like every time they come out with a new version, it requires everyone go out and buy a new computer big enough to be able to run it.
I think this is one area where Linux has the lead. Windows tries to put everything into one package, where in Linux you have a repository. When you install it on your machine, it only loads those programs your machine requires, and if you change a piece of hardware, it will usually go fetch the drivers and software for it, if possible. Linux don't have drivers installed for everything under the sun like Windows. Windows too will go out looking for drivers if not already installed.
But all that BLOAT in Windows, plus all the CRAPWARE they add along with it, is what slows down Windows computers so much.
Honestly, you are about the only person I talk with who likes Windows 10.
One other guy I talk with likes his Windows 10, but complains that most of his existing programs will not run on it. But he does admit that a lot of them are older and he can't afford to upgrade all of them anymore.
He recently switched from ms Office to Libre Office for that very reason.
Re: Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
I think you have a pretty good understanding of what goes on in the computer world. I'd question some of the details but overall what you describe has got to be pretty accurate. There is a lot more going on in The Cloud than you touch upon. Cloud computing is what makes a network of computers platform independent. If you can get to the company's cloud, you can do your job on their virtual machines regardless of what your local hardware might be. There is a line of thought that suggests security is an issue with cloud servers. It's no more of an issue than a locally built Unix mainframe as far as attackers are concerned. They really don't care where the data is because the trick is to find out how to get at it. The cloud essentially puts it in the hands of a third party unless you build your own. A lot of companies have done that, but it's currently still cheaper to rent space from the likes of Amazon and Microsoft.
Bill Gates was a genius but I don't think he intentionally created Windows with a planned obsolescence in mind. The fact that hardware changed and forced the creation of new kernels and operating systems wasn't of Gate's doing or any other single individual or company. The hardware and the software developers are running at break neck speed to keep up with public demand. There is no way Windows XP, for example, could keep up with 3D acceleration or live streaming phone calls for example. There simply aren't enough bits available to produce the necessary data packets. You could build a machine that is backward compatible to the pre-DOS days. But why would you? Only a few people would want to do that, and I can't imagine why anyone would need to do it. The closest thing to that concept today is WINE running in Linux. They have a compatibility mode to simulate old machines, but it's buggy at best. The evolution of computers we are witnessing is a response to the needs of the users, not the other way around.
You bring up a good point about my being comfortable with Windows 10. One of the things to keep in mind is that I am not running the average version of Windows 10. There are features and scenarios in my preview software that never will make it to the real world, for example. It's not called a beta version (even though it is) because it's not tied to a given product. What I'm using for Windows 10 is basically an experiment that happens to look a lot like the real thing. It so happens that this experiment I'm running is on a laptop; not desktop nor a server. In addition to the Windows 10 there are two versions of Linux installed on the same hard drive. As I mentioned when I bought this laptop, the manufacturer refuses to even talk about Linux and much less support it. All of these OS's can boot up from inside the Windows boot manager, or Grub, or the reFINd that I happen to have installed along with all the rest. Think about that. There is not only the usual Micorsoft spyware and bloatware but also software to track things that don't exist in the stable version of Windows. How in all of Hell can this monster of a system boot into Windows in about 3 seconds? Why does it never crash (unless I install a Linux experiment that is undisciplined)? Well, it's not trouble free because it IS pre-release and in the beta stage of development, but it runs better than anything you and your friends have had experience with - or so I gather from your postings here. How is that possible?
I don't have an answer for you, but I can tell you what I did. I bought and expensive "gaming" laptop at the end of its sales life. Thus I got a good deal on the price, but it was still expensive. The gaming graphics card, the nVidia one, causes havoc with Linux, but that's a whole different story for some other thread. LOL My point is that I did not want a WalMart special because I know they are lacking in performance. The pre-installed Windows on this laptop was the Home edition. I tried top migrate my Pro (beta) version into this laptop, but Micorsoft isn't stupid. New box = new license. I bit the bullet and bought a license and immediately dumped it to migrate back over to the Windows Insider Preview edition. You could say I upgraded and then went backwards, but I considered this beta OS an improvement. The next thing I did was up the RAM from 8 to 16 gigs and swapped the 1T HDD for a 500GB SSD. That last item, in my opinion, accounts for a major part of the improved performance.
I know what you are thinking, but this is my hobby. I have no other vices. All that money sitting around in my retirement account is getting dusty. So ... I dip into it once in a while and indulge myself with luxury high end computers. You can't do what I'm doing if you try it with an off the shelf laptop. Perhaps you can, but it won't be as trouble free. I did something similar with Windows 7 but in that case I built my own tower with hand picked components. It too has all the extra drives and SSD's and lots of RAM and no crapware. It's time to think about migrating off Windows 7, but to what? I don't know, Gary. Linux is attractive in some ways, but it gives me a heck of a lot more trouble than does Windows. I think it boils down to Linux works best as a stand alone system. Dual or multi-boot is technically possible, but should be avoided. I don't like that aspect of it. Until I find a Linux OS that plays well with my other bad habits, it's Windows for me.
Bill Gates was a genius but I don't think he intentionally created Windows with a planned obsolescence in mind. The fact that hardware changed and forced the creation of new kernels and operating systems wasn't of Gate's doing or any other single individual or company. The hardware and the software developers are running at break neck speed to keep up with public demand. There is no way Windows XP, for example, could keep up with 3D acceleration or live streaming phone calls for example. There simply aren't enough bits available to produce the necessary data packets. You could build a machine that is backward compatible to the pre-DOS days. But why would you? Only a few people would want to do that, and I can't imagine why anyone would need to do it. The closest thing to that concept today is WINE running in Linux. They have a compatibility mode to simulate old machines, but it's buggy at best. The evolution of computers we are witnessing is a response to the needs of the users, not the other way around.
You bring up a good point about my being comfortable with Windows 10. One of the things to keep in mind is that I am not running the average version of Windows 10. There are features and scenarios in my preview software that never will make it to the real world, for example. It's not called a beta version (even though it is) because it's not tied to a given product. What I'm using for Windows 10 is basically an experiment that happens to look a lot like the real thing. It so happens that this experiment I'm running is on a laptop; not desktop nor a server. In addition to the Windows 10 there are two versions of Linux installed on the same hard drive. As I mentioned when I bought this laptop, the manufacturer refuses to even talk about Linux and much less support it. All of these OS's can boot up from inside the Windows boot manager, or Grub, or the reFINd that I happen to have installed along with all the rest. Think about that. There is not only the usual Micorsoft spyware and bloatware but also software to track things that don't exist in the stable version of Windows. How in all of Hell can this monster of a system boot into Windows in about 3 seconds? Why does it never crash (unless I install a Linux experiment that is undisciplined)? Well, it's not trouble free because it IS pre-release and in the beta stage of development, but it runs better than anything you and your friends have had experience with - or so I gather from your postings here. How is that possible?
I don't have an answer for you, but I can tell you what I did. I bought and expensive "gaming" laptop at the end of its sales life. Thus I got a good deal on the price, but it was still expensive. The gaming graphics card, the nVidia one, causes havoc with Linux, but that's a whole different story for some other thread. LOL My point is that I did not want a WalMart special because I know they are lacking in performance. The pre-installed Windows on this laptop was the Home edition. I tried top migrate my Pro (beta) version into this laptop, but Micorsoft isn't stupid. New box = new license. I bit the bullet and bought a license and immediately dumped it to migrate back over to the Windows Insider Preview edition. You could say I upgraded and then went backwards, but I considered this beta OS an improvement. The next thing I did was up the RAM from 8 to 16 gigs and swapped the 1T HDD for a 500GB SSD. That last item, in my opinion, accounts for a major part of the improved performance.
I know what you are thinking, but this is my hobby. I have no other vices. All that money sitting around in my retirement account is getting dusty. So ... I dip into it once in a while and indulge myself with luxury high end computers. You can't do what I'm doing if you try it with an off the shelf laptop. Perhaps you can, but it won't be as trouble free. I did something similar with Windows 7 but in that case I built my own tower with hand picked components. It too has all the extra drives and SSD's and lots of RAM and no crapware. It's time to think about migrating off Windows 7, but to what? I don't know, Gary. Linux is attractive in some ways, but it gives me a heck of a lot more trouble than does Windows. I think it boils down to Linux works best as a stand alone system. Dual or multi-boot is technically possible, but should be avoided. I don't like that aspect of it. Until I find a Linux OS that plays well with my other bad habits, it's Windows for me.
Re: Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
Going back to when I opened Wonder Plants, I was already using Apple and Windows both at home.
I never owned a MAC myself at that time, yet.
I needed a computer system for my new business that could do much more than the Cougar Mountain package my brother chose for his business with the numerous options. I did talk to them several times and bought their main program and some modules to test out myself, but it didn't give me what I needed. I also knew I couldn't run this business on an Apple, hi hi.
Went to a horticultural trade show geared to both farming and the greenhouse industry. Listened to and watched several program vendors shows, slides, and short movies. The magazine Greenhouse Grower had a booth there to and just happen to be talking about an amazing program. I asked about it and they pointed me clear down to the other end of the trade show. They were just starting the cycle of their presentation when I got there. It was the most advanced and also the most interesting show of programming I ever saw that day, and they did not leave out a single feature of running greenhouses including sales, inventory, accounting, you name it, and everything was coordinated together in one package with optional modules of course for the less used features.
I fell in love with this program and sat through three whole cycles of their presentation before I got to sit down with two of the guys at the booth. They listened to what I wanted and also things I would like to be able to do. The not only said their program could do it, but showed me right there on sight, and what optional equipment they had to hand 10 to 99 sensors should I ever need that many. It could control the lighting, even with different time settings for different areas, monitor water levels, control heating and cooling, turn on and off water solenoids, up to 99 of them if need be. Plus all the normal things like shipping, receiving, ordering, inventory control both perishable and non-perishable, planting times, growth duration. You named it, it could do it.
But, it only worked on a MAC. They have tried to get it to work on PCs but they just couldn't do it for some reason.
They also only sold the programming, not the equipment, other than the controllers and devices.
The one guy said he knows a dealer where I can get the entire system set up, probably for half the price of anyone else.
I contacted them a few weeks later and the guy came out to our office, and I took him through our new building, the offices were just completed and about half of the roller tracks in. He was impressed!
He called me back about three days later with a quote that included two Mac SEs and one Mac Plus, or possibly vice versa.
He would install the Tops Network, install the computer program, and whatever controllers I bought for it, plus run the wires to where the sensors, switches, and solenoids would be placed. What I expected to cost around 30 grand came in at around 12 grand for everything.
It wasn't until this system was up and running, that I also learned the programs supplied in all MAC computers, outshined anything in Windows computers. I was messing with genealogy back then too, and I could draw and move lines around on documents as if they were graphical programs, but only lines and boxes. I could add images into a document sized to fit inside the boxes I drew with ease.
This is the system we ran Wonder Plants on, and I eventually bought a small MAC for at home, but ended up taking it to work with me also, since I was there all day anyhow.
Back home I was mainly using Windows, and I had tons of things I did on the MAC that some guy told me he could convert to Windows for me. Well, he tried, and not only was he not able to, he managed to lose all of my data in the process. Although I had backups in my office, I was locked out of my office for reasons I've mentioned in the past, and lost everything that was in my office.
I didn't start using Linux until after Vista came out. Even then I still had all of my XP machines up and running.
I never owned a MAC myself at that time, yet.
I needed a computer system for my new business that could do much more than the Cougar Mountain package my brother chose for his business with the numerous options. I did talk to them several times and bought their main program and some modules to test out myself, but it didn't give me what I needed. I also knew I couldn't run this business on an Apple, hi hi.
Went to a horticultural trade show geared to both farming and the greenhouse industry. Listened to and watched several program vendors shows, slides, and short movies. The magazine Greenhouse Grower had a booth there to and just happen to be talking about an amazing program. I asked about it and they pointed me clear down to the other end of the trade show. They were just starting the cycle of their presentation when I got there. It was the most advanced and also the most interesting show of programming I ever saw that day, and they did not leave out a single feature of running greenhouses including sales, inventory, accounting, you name it, and everything was coordinated together in one package with optional modules of course for the less used features.
I fell in love with this program and sat through three whole cycles of their presentation before I got to sit down with two of the guys at the booth. They listened to what I wanted and also things I would like to be able to do. The not only said their program could do it, but showed me right there on sight, and what optional equipment they had to hand 10 to 99 sensors should I ever need that many. It could control the lighting, even with different time settings for different areas, monitor water levels, control heating and cooling, turn on and off water solenoids, up to 99 of them if need be. Plus all the normal things like shipping, receiving, ordering, inventory control both perishable and non-perishable, planting times, growth duration. You named it, it could do it.
But, it only worked on a MAC. They have tried to get it to work on PCs but they just couldn't do it for some reason.
They also only sold the programming, not the equipment, other than the controllers and devices.
The one guy said he knows a dealer where I can get the entire system set up, probably for half the price of anyone else.
I contacted them a few weeks later and the guy came out to our office, and I took him through our new building, the offices were just completed and about half of the roller tracks in. He was impressed!
He called me back about three days later with a quote that included two Mac SEs and one Mac Plus, or possibly vice versa.
He would install the Tops Network, install the computer program, and whatever controllers I bought for it, plus run the wires to where the sensors, switches, and solenoids would be placed. What I expected to cost around 30 grand came in at around 12 grand for everything.
It wasn't until this system was up and running, that I also learned the programs supplied in all MAC computers, outshined anything in Windows computers. I was messing with genealogy back then too, and I could draw and move lines around on documents as if they were graphical programs, but only lines and boxes. I could add images into a document sized to fit inside the boxes I drew with ease.
This is the system we ran Wonder Plants on, and I eventually bought a small MAC for at home, but ended up taking it to work with me also, since I was there all day anyhow.
Back home I was mainly using Windows, and I had tons of things I did on the MAC that some guy told me he could convert to Windows for me. Well, he tried, and not only was he not able to, he managed to lose all of my data in the process. Although I had backups in my office, I was locked out of my office for reasons I've mentioned in the past, and lost everything that was in my office.
I didn't start using Linux until after Vista came out. Even then I still had all of my XP machines up and running.
Re: Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
"It just works" is a phrase Apple used to use in their marketing. There was a time when Apple was a serious challenge to Microsoft, but they made what was nearly a fatal mistake in marketing. Apple was not interested in licensing their product and only catered to individual PC users. It was with that policy in mind that much of the greatness built into Apple computers came to be. Unfortunately there weren't enough PC users willing to buy a high priced machine to keep Apple in business. Bill Gates personally intervened with a loan that saved Apple's financial life. Apple had to drop some law suits in return, but it turned out to be a good deal in the long term. Funny enough, those days of "just working" computers had Motorola processors in them. Motorola dropped the ball and could not meet the demands placed on them by Apple so that Jobs decided to switch to Intel processors instead. That's when the playing field leveled off. Apple lost its edge over Microsoft. To do one mistake better, Microsoft decided mobile devices were a fad and a niche market until they were almost out of business because they were ignoring the elephant in the room. Today Apple computers look nicer, but in spite of what you hear the performance is pretty close to what Windows can do.
Then there is the Linux community. I think I've said enough about them already.
Then there is the Linux community. I think I've said enough about them already.
Re: Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
Wang had the same problem, sorta. Although they did make me a PC that ran Windows and Wang, they were in the mainframe business, but relied on building their own programs to meet the buyers needs.
As PCs became more powerful, and proprietary software grew to meet the demands of business.
It made more sense for a company to go with Windows PCs and hi-end software packages, rather than pay the price for Wangs full-service.
Heck, a USB stick now has more memory than that big 3 foot square hard drive we had, hi hi.
Plus another few companies came out with cabinet servers for small business that did everything and had massive storage.
No way Wang could compete with that. Their market was not like IBMs either. Wang could not get into the larger companies who ran the much larger and faster mainframes. Too much competition on the big guns end, and too low of price equipment available to their normal line of customers. So they eventually went belly up.
As PCs became more powerful, and proprietary software grew to meet the demands of business.
It made more sense for a company to go with Windows PCs and hi-end software packages, rather than pay the price for Wangs full-service.
Heck, a USB stick now has more memory than that big 3 foot square hard drive we had, hi hi.
Plus another few companies came out with cabinet servers for small business that did everything and had massive storage.
No way Wang could compete with that. Their market was not like IBMs either. Wang could not get into the larger companies who ran the much larger and faster mainframes. Too much competition on the big guns end, and too low of price equipment available to their normal line of customers. So they eventually went belly up.
Re: Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
Sad to say, but both Apple and Wang focused on their customers' needs to the exclusion of expanding their markets, and both companies failed in that regard. There was no Bill Gates to save Wang's hide, and I don't think Wang management wanted to compromise their products anyway. The moral to the story is that paying attention to your customers' needs doesn't maximize profits.
Last edited by yogi on 28 Feb 2020, 21:45, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
I know Wang didn't charge us near the amount they charged other companies for their service package.
However, I think we were the only company letting them run outside services on our computer too.
They even helped us sell our system, took care of moving it, and set us up with a smaller Wang OIS system for our last few months in business, then came and took that out too.
One thing of interest though, we also got bids from IBM, which was probably the better company, but their prices were well beyond what we could afford, and they would not have done for us all the things Wang did either.
So I think our choice to go with Wang was a good one. At least they stayed in business until after we closed up shop.
All I can say is they did right by us, and probably made a bundle on the services they ran on our system too.
End of February and it is snowing to beat the band outside. It won't stick as the thermometer moved above freezing.
However, I think we were the only company letting them run outside services on our computer too.
They even helped us sell our system, took care of moving it, and set us up with a smaller Wang OIS system for our last few months in business, then came and took that out too.
One thing of interest though, we also got bids from IBM, which was probably the better company, but their prices were well beyond what we could afford, and they would not have done for us all the things Wang did either.
So I think our choice to go with Wang was a good one. At least they stayed in business until after we closed up shop.
All I can say is they did right by us, and probably made a bundle on the services they ran on our system too.
End of February and it is snowing to beat the band outside. It won't stick as the thermometer moved above freezing.
Re: Installing Ubuntu - Part 2
I think Wang was one of the good guys, which explains why they couldn't beat the competition in the long run. People like IBM or Oracle have the best products you can buy, but they have the highest prices too. I don't think they really care about the small businessman either. They are after the big bucks.
I've run across some long range weather predictions and apparently we are about to change our ways. We got some of that snow and freezing rain too, but it's mild today and getting better. I read someplace that when the temperatures are above freezing for five days (or something like that) that is the time to put down the pre-emergant weed killer. Looks like I'll have to do that this weekend. And just yesterday t here was snow on the grass. LOL
I've run across some long range weather predictions and apparently we are about to change our ways. We got some of that snow and freezing rain too, but it's mild today and getting better. I read someplace that when the temperatures are above freezing for five days (or something like that) that is the time to put down the pre-emergant weed killer. Looks like I'll have to do that this weekend. And just yesterday t here was snow on the grass. LOL