Smug As A Bug

[Kellemora]

That would be upgrades from an old version to a newer version, without also reinstalling the programs stable in the new release.
If you are running a stable Linux Distro, and getting the programs from the repository, they are tested to the hilt.
That doesn't mean there are not bugs in them, but mainly that they won't crash your computer, hi hi.

Hmm, maybe 19.3 is a rolling release, that would explain so many upgrades, but the number hasn't changed from 19.3 yet.

If I still knew how to work on circuit boards, I probably could have fixed the broken trace myself.
But after being away from it for close to 20 years, and after I had that attack that caused me to forget how to do most of the work I did on circuit boards, I was afraid to touch anything. If you recall, right after the incident, I didn't even remember how to fix and analog power supply or use the test equipment. But from years of building Heathkits, I didn't quite forget the simple stuff.
I don't blame you for what happened during shipping. It didn't affect how the computer works one iota.
As I said earlier, the Silver Yogi is the best computer I've ever owned.

I don't know all the official terminology, but in a nutshell, a memory leak is when a program uses memory and does not release it when it is no longer needed. What happens is, more and more memory keeps getting used up until the system freezes due to out of memory. Sometimes it isn't so bad, because only the program used up its own allocation and froze, so you can exit out of it and watch the memory usage drop back down to normal again.
This is why I say, I don't know if it is Google or WebGL that has the leak.
I'll be doing something that uses WebGL (playing Farm Town, hi hi), and will suddenly get a white screen in normal screen mode, or a black screen in full screen mode, which I can escape out of to see the white screen.
Restarting the game itself gets you an error message from Google saying WebGL supported, but disabled.
OK, who disabled it? The only folks that can disable it is the one supporting it, which is Google.
Never had things like that happen with Flash Player!

I was reading up a little bit about the programming language called V.
It is interesting, but still way above my head. But even in the documentation it said not to forget to release memory after an operation or it will cause a memory leak.

[yogi]

What you describe about releasing memory is just the opposite to what I see as a leak. LOL And, yes, I am very familiar with the concept. It was all transparent in BASIC but when I got to C and C++ memory allocations had to be managed very carefully. Generally many processes with lots of variables are all happening simultaneously and it is quite easy to miss an allocation while writing the code and not release it. It's one of the points I thought was a flaw in the way C++ was written, but then I knew very little about the whys thing were done the way they are in a program language. It's also hard for me to believe that Google would miss such a flaw in it's hallmark browser.

I'm certain you watch the memory usage in your system resource app. When a program starts to hog memory it's easy enough to spot if you keep your eye on such things. It's also possible to kill the process if you can determine which one is hanging up the memory. But, alas, it's so much easier to just kill the offending app and restart. I guess I'd have to agree that Google's Chrome is a resource pig and that is one reason I relegate it to minor tasks. Even the Waterfox browser I favor uses nearly two gigs of RAM to keep eight tabs going. They have come up with a way to make only the tab in focus active, as opposed to all eight at once, but the amount of memory needed is ridiculous considering they advertise this browser as using fewer resources than the competition.

It's a bit of a shame that your personal memory is so fragile. Repairing a damaged circuit board is trivial in most cases. Multi-layered boards might be impossible to fix, but fixing cracked foils where a connector is soldered into a motherboard would only require a magnifying glass and solder iron. You might want to reinforce the cracked foil by laying some strands of wire over it before you solder it back together, but that's it for technical expertise. Then again, if you don't need the use of the expansion slot, why bother?

I know of what you speak when you get messages from Google saying it is closing down an app. I get similar messages from Windows when a misbehaved piece of software tries to destroy my system too. It's been a very long time since I've seen an actual blue screen of death but those shutting down a misbehaved program notices happen from time to time. I have a way to read the memory dump and can tell what exactly causes most of the problems. Typically a program is trying to access a forbidden part of memory. While that might be interesting to know, it is totally useless information. LOL It's a one-off kind of thing and can't be duplicated. In some ways that's a good thing.

[Kellemora]

Some of the troubleshooting sites I visited said that not uninstalling Flash Player before playing FT could be the issue.
Sounds great until you realize when I reinstalled a newer OS I did so on a new partition, and I don't have Flash installed at all.

Yesterday, I used Firefox to do my morning routine. Still got the memory leak.
Today, I tried Opera, still go the memory leak.
I can see it happening since I do have three system monitors displayed in my top panel.
So, since it is doing it on all three browsers, I have to lay the blame back on WebGL.
I say that, because, even though my FT game was open, while it was idle, doing nothing, I still got the white screen.
If I just try reloading the game itself, and not the browser, the browser says WebGL is something or other, but disabled.
I have to close the browser then open it again for it use WebGL, so perhaps that is where the problem is?

I'm sure it would be an easy fix. I have the tools still to do that, including the pin-point soldering tools.
It's just every time I get inside a computer now, it is like a strange world to me.
Sounds crazy I know, but something just happened inside my headbone to mess me up every time.

My other computer running Debian Buster, but an earlier version number. Like 10.3, has a memory leak in Mate Panel.
That problem was fixed in 10.5, so I don't know why when I do and update, upgrade, dist-upgrade, it don't pull in the newest version of the same series. I've even tried things like full-upgrade and a few others. Didn't change anything.
I even changed things in my repository to match what is in my 10.7 machine, still no difference.
Since I have 10.7 on a USB stick now, I may just delete the Debian partition and reinstall a new copy fresh.
It could also have something to do with the age of that computer too!

[yogi]

The general cause of memory leaks is simple to understand. A block of memory is reserved by a program element in order to perform a particular task. When the task is completed, that reserved block must be specifically released by the program. As I pointed out earlier doing that can be quite a trick when the program is very complex or the software engineer is inexperienced. Determining exactly what is causing the leak may not be so simple. Developers have tools to show them what processes and what variables are using in terms of memory. Using such tools would make it easy to find the offending code. However, that tool is not commonly available to players of FT, nor anybody else outside the developers community. Even if you know which code was the culprit, you can't do much about it anyway. Open a trouble ticket and hope they believe you.

I think you pretty much demonstrated that your browsers are not of themselves the problem. WebGL could be, but I have no knowledge of what that app does nor how it does it. When it comes to a full operating systems leaking memory, the troubleshooting becomes a magnificent nightmare. LOL I think you can eliminate hardware. The age of your computer would not be part of the leak, but of course you only have so much memory to start with so that can be an issue. You may be able to use something like the top command to turn things off and on and see how they affect the leak. Doing that is likely to crash your machine if you don't know what it is you are doing, unfortunately.

I have little patience with what I perceive as a coding flaw which some developer should never have allowed to happen. My solution would be to to a fresh install on a newly partitioned disc. If it does not work as advertised right out of the box, I assume the entire package is crap and move on to something else. That's basically why I'm a Windows fan and keep telling you it just works. There are other ways to solve the problem but at my stage in this game I don't have time to deal with other peoples' shortcomings.

[Kellemora]

I can use HTOP to show me the Mate Panel has a memory leak, but only in one version of their Distro.
Don't have it in the newest version!

WebGL doesn't show up in HTOP because it is browser add-on I assume.

I don't know Yogi, we have a lot of people moving from Win10 to GNU/Linux, some before it becomes a subscriber only service.
I think when that happens, we will have the biggest influx of GNU/Linux users.

[yogi]

I'm pretty sure that as far as personal computing goes, both Linux and Windows have reached their peak. There will be people switching or using both, but I don't see a major migration anywhere in the near future. Microsoft has gone silent on the subscriber issue and that's probably because they are of the same mind that I am; there is no room for future expansion in the PC market. However, in the business world and cloud computing with virtual machines, there are no limits. It's all subscription there. That is why Microsoft is focusing on the cloud. People migrating to Linux are entering a dead end street. Desktops will not disappear in our lifetime, but they certainly are not a growing market. Laptops too seem to be limited because tablets can do just about everything a lappie can, the tablets are way more portable; not to mention they run on purchased apps which keep the cash flowing. The world being taken over by Linux has been a dream I read about for decades now. If they think 2% of the PC market is taking over the world then Linux has accomplished its goal. In order to go beyond that trivial number some big time changes would need to be made for Linux to be competitive with the established Windows base. That's not going to happen because every Linux developer on earth thinks their system is the one and only solution. Multiply that by a million developers and you can see why Microsoft can't lose.

[Kellemora]

You may be right, because very soon we will no longer even need keyboards or meeces.
My wife talks to her Schmartz-Fone, and also her newest Kindle, which is also a touch screen.
Instead of using her finger to scroll through the icons on the screen, she just says Alexa open Facebook.
After that she may use the touch-screen to scroll down a little.

I had Dragon Point and Speak many years ago, it wasn't very good, but has got better over the years I hear.
But no voice to text program, even those coupled with grammar programs have replaced typing yet.
But as far as using voice for commands, they have that fairly well down pat now.

How ms fairs is yet to be seen. They are losing out big time in nearly every area of computing.

[yogi]

You might be surprised if you looked over the financials for Microsoft. There is no indication whatsoever that they are losing their grip on software. In fact the revenues coming in show quite the opposite, which explains why they are one of the largest businesses in the world.

Speech recognition has come a long way, indeed. Talking to the smartphone, or any Android or iOS device, is trivial these days. Many people feel awkward talking to a machine and sometimes the silicon ears don't get it right. I think that is all directed primarily at mobile devices. There are situations that demand pointing and clicking and for that reason I don't see the mouse or the keyboard disappearing. What will happen is computers as we know them will become antiques. With the advent of Artificial Intelligence and robotics at hand you will have an R2D2 at your side to do all those things you currently are doing on your Linux machines. Not only that, but the robot personal assistant will anticipate what you need and have it ready for you before you need it. Computers will no longer be needed because there will also be a plethora of intelligent devices that have all that smarts built in. Plus. all the smarts for these devices will be in The Cloud. Playing Farm Town, however, might still need a box. Then again, I'm not sure how long Facebook will be around in it's present form.

[Kellemora]

Is that income from all of their other investments, or just from their software?

I was surprised to learn many companies are making great strides in speech recognition for use in the workplace.
First they had to overcome the problem of recognizing individual voices, so others speaking commands in the office would not interfere with each other.
In the field of architecture and engineering, plus some robotics, and other lesser important things.
These four companies seem to be paving the way.
Hexagon Manufacturing Intelligence
General Electric
Parametric Technology Corporation
And a company called Creo is doing amazing things.

General Electric is more into the devices needed.
Like special microphones that only hear your voice and cancel out any other voice pattern.
Plus they are designed to work only up to 3 feet from the mike, so other room noises are ignored too.
This was one breakthrough that was needed in an office setting, where design work using voice commands is used.

So as you say, computers like ours will no longer be needed. No mouse, no keyboard, only a screen with a microphone built-in.

[yogi]

A company called Cruise is joining efforts with General Motors and Microsoft to commercialize self driving automobiles. Microsoft is not interested in building automobiles, which is contrary to the rumors about Apple and Google. Their contribution is nearly a billion dollars with GM providing a similar equity investment. I'm no investment nor business genius, but this partnership seems like a brilliant idea for Microsoft. They are bringing their Cloud to the table wherein all the smarts for self driving cars will be located. The Cloud, of course, is software. GM being a part of this effort will naturally incorporate Microsoft's cloud technology into their products. GM is no small player and Cruise has $28 billion behind it's efforts. So what is Microsoft doing here? Are they only investing in a futuristic company to cash in on their success, or is Microsoft positioning itself to dominate the self driven automobile market with their existing Cloud Computing? Well I don't know how their balance sheet will look, but all those GM dollars are going to be applied to the profits from the software Microsoft developed. And to answer the unasked question, Microsoft is not going to be losing revenues from Windows or their Office Suite. They are simply expanding into other areas with greater potentials.


I've seen robots that you would have a hard time distinguishing from actual human beings. They even feel like a human when you touch them. They understand Japanese right now but are capable of conversing in any language. These robots are being taught how to feel emotions. Let me say that again; robots are being trained to have feelings. They can sense your feelings as well as express their own. It's all machine learning and artificial intelligence and will be available at your local porn shop soon. And, yes, there are people speculating about falling in love with a robot because they are incapable of dealing with real people. If you think LGBT is a big deal, just wait for this robot revolution to materialize.

[Kellemora]

There was a big article on one of the news websites I visit about whether or not cars talking to each of the other cars around them is a good idea or not. All it would take is one hacker to cause them all to crash into each other, hi hi.
I'm sure there are safeguards against that ever happening, but even so, hackers are going to have a heyday when cars are finally equipped that way.

Make a clone of yourself as a robot and send him to work in your place.
Then clone another and send him out to another job.
Heck if you could do this ten times, you would have ten times the income.
And when the super rich figure this out, they will replace the entire workforce so no one has a job anymore.

I wouldn't mind having a robot to help me around here, hi hi.

[yogi]

The super rich must have already figured it out because robots are starting to replace humans en masse. I'm certain a personal assistant bot will be the replacement for computers and most mobile devices, but cloning yourself would be pointless. Many jobs simply will not be available for humans. The workforce of today will diminish greatly as a result of this robotic onslaught. That situation is almost inevitable and people today are already trying to figure out what all the idle workforce will be doing with their time, not to mention how will they earn their keep? Some thinkers figure the bots will take over and herd us around like cattle. They will feed us and keep us just comfortable enough to not start a rebellion. No, I'm not kidding. That is exactly what some think tanks are trying to deal with and it is the reason why you see people objecting to artificial intelligence. That artificial stuff will exceed our own in about a dozen years or less. It will be too late to change things by that time.

[Kellemora]

Maybe, maybe not. But when the machines can fix other machines that break down, and learn to design their own machines better, then people might become useless, and possibly considered a virus and be eradicated.

That being said, I had a friend from the writers guild who Gene also knew.
He wrote a book he titled several ways, but never got it published.
Living the world of Robotics, The Year 2060, and a couple of other titles that never quite fit.

In any case, the gist of his story covered the scenario where robotics caused money to be useless.
The rich and powerful who built the original machines, and owned all the manufacturing facilities, eventually had no one left to buy what they were making. Nobody at all, except the rich, had any money to buy things, especially food.
Nearly every family owned robotic maids, yard car machines, and the bulk of the population spent their time playing various games, also with the assistance of robots.
Population also grew so most people now lived in apartments, so no place for them to have a garden to grow food.

It got to the point where money became valueless, except between the rich buying each others business out and growing larger enterprises. Nevertheless, they finally came up with a plan to handle the masses.
Nearly all production one would think would come to a standstill, actually escalated, because now every person could basically have what they wanted for free. Older items were turned back in and broken back down into their individual elements so the elements could be reused to build something else.
It has been several years since I read the drafts for his story, but the highlights mainly were, crime came to an end, and everyone was provided for, not equally in his story, people earned stations in life by what they did to benefit the companies. Even so, there were no poor or rich among the populace. But the robots were never allowed to control the people like happens in some such scenarios. The planet ends up with like a panel of a dozen global leaders, and each country has a panel of a dozen country leaders. The countries are slightly different than we see them now, because there are no small countries and large countries. What used to be the U.S.A. became divided into four or five countries, and all of North America only had like twelve countries. In fact most land masses were divided into twelve countries each. I don't remember the reason everything was changed to using twelves. This collection of twelves, was broken down further by Districts, Zones, and Areas, each with a dozen humans on the panels. And of course, those given these leadership jobs had a higher station than the normal people. However, almost any human could earn a higher station, if there was an opening or a special need for another panel of twelve.

Almost forgot the beginning of the story told a little history about how robotics were used to do all the jobs people didn't want to do, or jobs that were dangerous or unhealthy for humans. Also many jobs that could not be done affordably by humans. And then of course the use of robotics continued to escalate until almost all jobs once performed by humans was done by machine.
By this time, money was useless anyhow. You either could afford to buy your own robots, or you were flat broke and cared for by machines. Once the machines could design and build themselves more machines, they could cover every need for every human.
It was a great story, and actually sounded plausible.

[yogi]

That is a most interesting story about the future and robotics. It seems to center around the utility aspect of non-humans performing rote tasks. That was the state of affairs maybe a dozen years ago. Since that time machine learning and artificial intelligence has entered into the formulation. Not only can the bots do all those menial tasks, but they can now decide the best way to do them. Once the intelligence level of the bots surpasses that of the humans around them, then the bots will be in a position to decide on their own if they should be doing the tasks in the first place. Intelligence implies the ability to make informed decisions and not just an ability to perform a task. It doesn't take much imagination to see a time when that artificial intelligence will become self aware. What happens at that point is the nightmare science has yet to deal with.

[Kellemora]

Reminds me of the Star Trek episode where Mariority a hologram becomes a real person, hi hi.
I hate to think of what will happen when the machines become self-aware and decide humans are a virus, hi hi.

[yogi]

Aliens from outer space come to mind when I think of the Robot Apocalypse. There is evidence that we have been and are being visited by extraterrestrial beings. One of the arguments against that line of thought is that none of the visits have been verifiably documented. Why aren't they among us? The answer could be what will happen with the bots we create surpass our own intelligence. They will see us as being about as smart as a common housefly, and just as much a nuisance. Why bother with such low lifeforms? If one gets in the way it will get swatted down, otherwise humans would be useless to the robot agenda.

[Kellemora]

I read an amazing documentary once that more or less explained the span of our technology in relationship to the age of our planet, and of the universe.

At the time I read it, we had only had radio transmissions for about 50 years, and video transmissions for around 35 years.
Although at the time the documentary was written we had no knowledge yet of computers or digital signals.
Even so, it said our form of communications will advance and take on different forms that will become impossible to decipher without knowing how it is formulated to build a device capable of understanding such methods of communications.

If we consider the universally short time span we have had communications abilities, civilizations on other planets could still be in their infancy, while others are so far beyond our current station in time, they may have communications that use light pulses at a super rapid rate in undecipherable symbols we could not possibly understand or even contemplate a way of receiving such signals.

Just look at the different levels of technology on our own planet and how it ranges from continent to continent. One leading continent may be hundreds of years ahead of our slowest growing in technology continent. It is not globally equal at all.
So there is no reason to suspect that other inhabitable planets would be on our same level of technology advancement.

Regarding robotics. One thing I'm sure of they will all probably be very high maintenance devices. So perhaps an entire workforce of repair technicians will be needed before they learn to fix themselves, hi hi.
My old typewriter repair shop migrated to repairing electronic typewriters, and then computerized typewriters, then made the big swing to handling server installations, at first for smaller companies, and then for a few larger companies, before the owner's son reached retirement age and sold the business to an even larger company than they had become.
I see many businesses advance as technology grows, while other businesses just hang on until they eventually close down.

[yogi]

There is a phenomena known as Quantum Entanglement. The entanglement is generally between pairs of particles but it can involve large groups as well. A single particle of the entangled group has been shown to be capable of indicating the state of one of it's entangled partners. This would be like me asking you how is your wife doing. The two of you are entangled but separate entities. The answer you give about your wife is a best guess and most likely correct. The particles are precise about their entanglement. Your answer would be a summary based on a long term relationship, but the entangled particles are not guessing or making presumptions. The state of one is transmitted to the entangled group precisely. The amazing aspect of entanglement is that the information being communicated is done instantly; that is to say no lag due to the transmission process. To date the record distance for using one entangled particle to measure the state of another is from earth to the moon. The theory is that this instant communication is not limited by distance in any wayl. It would be instant even if the two particles were billions of light years apart.

Quantum Entanglement involves a mode of communication that nobody here on earth can explain. First of all the particles are "aware" of what is happening to it's entangled mate. Secondly, information about that mate is transmitted instantly. This phenomena not only turns our understanding of physics inside out, but also adds a new dimension to the definition of consciousness. We know this is happening at a sub-atomic level, but who is to say some aliens somewhere in the universe have not figured out how to do the same thing? It gives new meaning to being "at one with the universe."

[Kellemora]

It is all very interesting, and who knows, perhaps some day we may be able to use this phenomenon to travel anywhere in the universe in an instant. It also might make it possible for us to be in several places at the same time too, or at least be aware of where our counterparts are and what they are doing, and possibly even control what we are doing elsewhere.
All amazing stuff!

[yogi]

When the body dies off and turns to compost, a lot of folks speculate that something lives on. They call it spirit. I know spirit exists in a collective form, such as what happens in the stadium at a sports event; team spirit. Patriotism is also a kind of spirit. It's hard for me to imagine an individual spirit roaming about somewhere in the universe. For one thing a spirit would have no sensory inputs. The notion of self awareness vanishes when you have no way to sense your environment. Without self awareness, do you really exist? Assuming it's possible to exist in a senseless spiritual state, the concepts of time and motion would not be part of the experience. Those are things needed by the mind to navigate the physical realms. It's hard to visualize where this spirit form would exist; it's nowhere, or everywhere. And that brings my thoughts back to quantum entanglement wherein everything is connected in some non-physical way.

OK, I'll be quite now and go take my pills.