Smug As A Bug

[yogi]

There are stories from farmers about high tension wires making animals go nuts. That's all 60 cycle and not RF. Motorola was very interested in possible damage from RF radiation and they did a lot of research into it. Cell phones are pretty safe in that they can't cause damage unless the antenna is actually touching the skin. There are other non-cell phone groups who argue otherwise and have an equal amount of proof that those phones are scrambling our brains. It's been tested in many labs and legally with no conclusive evidence. Regardless, I rarely will talk on the clever phone unless it is in the speaker mode and the transmitter is a couple feet away from my head. I'm paranoid, of course. Most, if not all, the cells in our body are not resonant with anything but some very specific microwave frequencies, i.e. whatever frequency wave length fits inside of the cells of an organ. Those frequencies are known and not used in commercial devices.

There is only one reason to launch a satellite into orbit; to broadcast data back to earth. There are thousands of them out there flooding the planet like it's never been done before. But, if you really want to be concerned about something, consider solar storms. Those are electromagnetic bursts of energy that can wipe out entire communication systems and power grids. They create the auroras up at the north pole. That kind of radiation is something to worry about, especially since we can't control it in any way.

[Kellemora]

High Tension Power lines DO put out a lot of harmonics when there is a bad spot somewhere along the lines.
And don't kid yourself that they do not put out RF energy, heck 60 Hz is already RF, and so are all the harmonics.
They are supposed to come out and fix a problem when those harmonics are getting up into the radio bands too.

You can take standard 4 foot fluorescent light bulbs and stick one end in the ground so it is grounded, and if you follow along the lines between the towers, you will hit a few spots where those lights will light up just from the RF in the air.
There is something else that has to do with magnetics around power lines also. One of the simplest was a piece of thick vinyl siding cut into a strip so it was a flat piece of vinyl, tacked to a 3 or 4 foot long pole in the center, and then at each end of the strip of vinyl you added an empty tin can. You can find spots where the magnetism is great enough it will lift the cans, and if you find just the right spot, it stick the stick in the ground, it will keep flapping like a bird flying, hi hi.

The signals coming down from satellites is so weak by the time it reaches us, it takes a dish to receive the signal, and often a specialized dish sized for that particular signal. Some satellite signals are so narrow, they only make about a 1 mile wide footprint on the earth, while others are wide enough to cover half the United States.

FWIW: Not all communications satellites are actually transmitting anything, other than when they are being controlled. They are simply reflectors is all. You mean a narrow signal up, and it reflects back down again. The same as bouncing radio signals off the various belts around the earth. This is how 40 and 80 meter transmissions are done, 6-meter uses the Ozone layer. How far a signals goes, and where it lands, is directly proportional to the time of day, and what you are bouncing it off of. This is why it is almost impossible for someone who can only use their Ham Rig at nighttime to work all countries on all continents on a particular band. A person trying has to set aside about 2 hours each day during the time their signal would land on that country. In some cases the window is only 1/2 hour long too. Especially when trying to work a small island nation. Then the other problem is, they are receiving in one band that is legal there, while you are transmitting on a band that is legal here, and if those bands are too far apart, their signal cannot hit you while yours hits them. So your message usually states at what time you will be listening on their band at what frequency for the reply.
That's one of the things that actually made Ham Radio fun for me. But now with the Internet, you can go everywhere instantly day or night, hi hi. But where is the challenge?

[yogi]

Well, yes. Those high tension electrical wires radiate electro-magnetic energy typically at a 60 cycle rate.

Radio frequency (RF) is the oscillation rate of an alternating electric current or voltage or of a magnetic, electric or electromagnetic field or mechanical system in the frequency range from around 20 kHz to around 300 GHz.

Technically, 60 Hz oscillations are not RF, radio frequencies.

Of course the physics of things doesn't care about what names we give phenomena. There are indeed standing waves and reflected waves and all kinds of energies interacting along those high tension lines. No doubt you would be able to find places that would have enough energy to activate the phosphor inside a fluorescent tube. We talked about this before and you told stories about how kinks in the transmission lines create RF interference. Could be. I'm not that familiar with it all to give you a response I'm confident in. All I know is what I read. LOL And, I've read where some funky things happen along those high tension lines. They are pretty far from where I live so that I have no direct experience with them.

Those satellite dishes work like a magnifying glass. Microwaves striking a flat surface are too weak to be useful. The dishes are designed to concentrate a band of frequencies at the center collector portion of the dish. I'm guessing a microwave oven does the same thing. I didn't realize how focused those ovens are until recently. I've always plopped a plate of whatever onto the rotating dish on the bottom of the oven. A few minutes later it's smoking. The other day I put a dinner plate on top of a soup bowl inside the microwave -- don't ask why. The food on the dish barely was warm after the appointed time. I thought this odd so I zapped it again with the same results. Then I took out the soup bowl and placed the dish where it belongs. It cooked just like downtown. Amazing.

[Kellemora]

Hmm. EM waves are considered RF and they are 3,000 kHz and travel over 60 miles.
Although 60 cycles is not considered RF, it can interfere with RF signals.

I could get into the functioning of a spark-gap transmitter, which is a single spark, like your spark plugs.
A single spark can travel great distances, depending upon how much voltage is used to create the spark.
It doesn't have a carrier, so can only be used in a manner like Morse Code.
Therefore, the transmission of a signal over the airwaves can be done without using RF at all.

Yes, a microwave is focused to 1 inch above the center of the bottom of the microwave. But the waves should bounce around enough in there to heat something on top of a bowl, albeit at a much slower rate, due to smaller concentration of energy up that high.

[yogi]

You and I went to two different schools together. LOL We both know about the same phenomena but have different names for it. RF energy is all you need to transmit code. It's either on or it's off. That is exactly the same concept used in a spark-gap generator. The spark-gap generator cannot be modulated, but RF can. Thus when the carrier frequency or amplitude (or both) is modulated, intelligence can be sent along with the RF waves. All electromagentic radiation propagates from the source. The frequencies involved have nothing to do with the ability of energy to radiate. Radiation itself is simple physics and one of the four basic components of the universe (the strong force, the weak force, and gravity being the others).

I didn't have any idea about the focal point inside a microwave oven. I figured the energy bouncing around was equal everywhere inside the chamber. Apparently not.

[Kellemora]

It's been 30 years since I studied up on electronics for radio, hi hi. And I tend to forget things easily.

It surprised me also because the magnetron gun points toward the opposite wall in a microwave.
But apparently the wave bounces off that wall back to the wall under the gun and reflects down toward the center of the bottom. I guess like using mirrors and getting the focus set for the item on the floor, hi hi.

[yogi]

My notion of what goes on inside a microwave oven is fuzzy at best. Because they are so small I figured microwaves would be reflected all over the place inside the box. This led me to think that the distribution of microwave energy was equal throughout the box. However, microwaves, being what they are, can be focused to strike a given target. Apparently that is what really happens inside those ovens. Exactly how they focus it to the center and low would be an interesting bit of knowledge. I've never taken apart one of those ovens so that I don't know how the magnetron output is directed. There could be a horn in there for all I know.

It's been a long long times since I studied electronics as well. I guess that working in the industry amid a bunch of electronic engineers etched some theory onto the walls of my cerebral cortex. Don't ask me about formulas, but I can rattle off theory pretty well; or at least my version of the theory.

[Kellemora]

On all of the microwave ovens I've had, the magnetron gun was in the right side, and the beam focused about 1/4 the way down on the left wall. So it them reflected to about 1/2 way down the right wall, and then to the center of the top of the tray, or perhaps 1/2 inch higher. But the waves do scatter about inside the oven, but with each reflection they lose more power. Think of it more like a laser light inside a chrome box, hi hi.

I had to pass a lot of tests to get up to my Advanced Class Ham Ticket. I could have passed the Extra test with ease back then too, but taking care of the late wife became my full-time job. I also quit working in the electronics field at the same time. I'm sure you remember why, another attack!

[yogi]

One of the reasons I was hired by Motorola had to do with the fact that I was studying for my First Class Commercial License back in those days. I took a mail order course and passed that with flying colors. Two attempts to pass the test at the FCC's office downtown Chicago failed. I did get a Third Class License as a consolation prize. Motorola said it was a useless license and I didn't need it to work for them. However, the training I went through was of interest to them. It didn't matter that I could produce a mail order diploma; they tested me using their own standard forms. Apparently I passed those tests but only because I had worked so hard at failing to get the commercial license. LOL As an aside, those technician tests were ruled illegal at some point after I was already hired. Not sure why, but the claim was that they were discriminatory.

When I went for my amateur license I could have passed the general exam first time but didn't try. That was because my code speed wasn't up to the requirement for a general license. But, my buddy was anxious to get going so we went together for the novice license. It wasn't too long after that when we again went for the general, but I'm certain I could have passed the advanced level too. I had a hell of a time transmitting the code to pass, but had no problem receiving. I took my bug with me and I think that was the problem. I should have used the knife switch they supplied for the test.

That's all interesting information about the microwave oven. Exactly how did you discover the radiation pattern? Unlike laser lights, microwaves are invisible.

[Kellemora]

One of my early licenses, other than Ham Radio or CB, was a Restricted Radiotelephone License, this is the one you needed to use the radio on an airplane, later when working as a DJ, I got the Broadcast Endorsement on it, and then when working at MRTC when they put the mobile telephone in my trunk and dashboard, I got the Land Mobile Endorsement put on it, even though I didn't really need to, since it was covered by the company somehow.

My very first Ham license KØVCH was Technicians class so I could use 6-meters, got that in 1959.
It expired while I was in the service, or perhaps just before that.
Since I was driving OTR I was using CB radio at the time anyhow.
My first CB license was simply 17Q, then the next person in Missouri to be licensed was 17Q1, then 17Q2, etc.
I knew the lady from California who was the very first CB license ever issued, she was 1Q.
When they expired the Q call, I became KNH-7564. Had that for about a year before folks started saying someone else was using my callsign. The FCC looked into the matter and his license was the last issued before lunch, and mine was the first issued after lunch, for that reason mine is the one that got corrected and I became KPI-1591, that I held until they quit issuing CB licenses.
Then in 1972 I think it was, I got my Novice License, KAØCDE which I kept for many years.
I finally decided to upgrade, took all of my tests up to General again, and the FCC said I was not in their system.
I went down to the FCC office and showed them my license, which was valid.
But since it was not in the system, and they could not reissue a used license at that time.
They issued me a temporary license of KBØLMW in 1993. The reason it was temporary was because they way their system worked, I would receive three more callsigns over the next few months before getting my General License and once it arrived it would then be my new valid license I should use, that was NØZOI.
Two years later I upgraded to Advance Class and got KGØZP which is still active today.

When I was working on electronics for ALD, Inc. we had several tools, one of them was a flat glass plate with something sandwiched between them that cause it to glow orange. We also had plastic cards that worked the same way to test infrared remote controls.
I only had to work on a couple of microwave ovens, and this plate was set on the left side, standing upright against the left wall, and the gun adjustment screws were set so the orange glow was inside the top circle on the glass plate. Then we moved the glass plate to the right side and made sure the orange glow was inside the lower circle.
You had to do this fairly quickly because in about 20 to 30 seconds, the entire glass plate would be glowing orange, even so the area of the circle was always more orange.
The service manual also showed using lines and arrows how the microwaves traveled inside the cabinet.
A few of the vending stops we had, had microwaves for the popcorn bags, and one even had a hot dog vending machine, which was a pain so we got rid of it.

The waves may be invisible, but put a plate in the microwave with a metallic trim on the rim and see what happens, hi hi.

[yogi]

Some of our dishes have gold traces on them, but apparently are microwave safe. I never did understand why some ovens allow metal racks to be placed inside. Now that you explained how the gun is aimed, I suppose it is possible to avoid hitting the metal in the center of the oven. My understanding is that microwaves range from 1-1000 GHz; people can see 430 - 750 GHz light waves. I had to look that one up because I wasn't sure how high up in frequency they consider microwaves. I guess visible light falls into the range, but I never think of it as microwaves; nano, perhaps.

You had more amateur licenses than Hershey has kisses. LOL I was WA9JUK as a novice and when I was promoted to general. That's it. I never had an interest in anything higher up than 10 meters. Now that I think about it, my call was WN9JUK as a novice. I still have that license along with my Selective Services card stashed away somewhere. I found both of them when we moved here and promptly stored them in a secure location - which I'd have to go hunting to find.

[Kellemora]

There are ceramic glazes used for trim that look like gold or silver but contain no metal.
Most used colored aluminum powder anyhow, but not so much anymore.
There are microwave browning dishes that are filled with a metal I used to think was mercury, but am told it is something else. I had a couple of Corning microwave skillets you had to pre-heat that had the metal disk in the bottom. Why they never sparked is beyond me, must be how they are made.
I had a microwave once that had a thermometer probe, so you know it had wires used in the item with a plug that plugged into the right side of the cabinet. How and why it worked is beyond me. But when it came unplugged, it sure made a lot of fireworks, hi hi. When you used the temperature probe, the turntable was not supposed to turn. I think perhaps it wasn't plugged in all the way, which is why the turntable turned and pulled it out of the socket, and when it did, lots of sparks, hi hi.

Wasn't my fault the FCC messed up so many times.
So does the Call Book as well.
I was invited to join the Quarter Century Wireless Club around 1990.
They turned me down, even though I had all the proof necessary.
They only go by what the Call Book says, Period, and nothing else.
Even after I showed them errors in the call book they could verify themselves in that same book.
A Ham is only supposed to be listed in the call book one time, under their active call sign.
I was listed in a certain years call book twice, under two call signs, both showing different start dates of my first license.
They did look it up, saw the error, and said it doesn't matter to them, the dates they show are not 25 years old.
I paid a high price to get a copy of the old 1960 call book, and to my surprise, my call sign did not show my name, it showed the persons name who gave me the test, and he already had his own license, and appeared under his license in the call book too, but under his full name, not the shortened version of his name.
No matter, a few years later when they invited me to join again, I said I can't join your club, you guys don't like FACTS.

[yogi]

I remember owning a call book or two, but never had much use for it. I don't recall anything messed up with my listing but probably would not care if it was. Same with the ARRL, which I know you also had disagreements with. I couldn't be bothered to join their club either. I did like the contests they sponsored and the certificates they offered, but that was the extent of my interest in that organization.

I've seen some meat thermometers that could be used along with your smart phone. The probe gets inserted into the meat and apparently broadcasts what it is measuring. I do not recall if it could be used in a microwave, but they did say it works fine in a conventional oven. That surprises me given all the metal surrounding the stuff being baked. Nice, but never bought one. It could be something for my wish list on my next birthday. LOL

[Kellemora]

You know those little pop-up DONE indicators used in turkeys?
They have a spring inside of them, so cannot be used in a Microwave at all.
I know from experience, hi hi. They don't spark, but they melt from the spring heating up.

I did see one of these, actually a pack of six of them, designed for microwave ovens.
They didn't have a pop-up, what they did have was a clear center that would turn black when the inside of the meat reached the preset temperature they were designed for. They were available for different temperature ranges. But we never bought any to see if they worked right.

I dropped out of the ARRL permanently when they wouldn't come to bat for me, but did for a new neighbor who just got their license. That was around 1967 or '68 I think.

[yogi]

I was looking to replace my manual meat thermometer one day. The number of thermometers available is startling. There are about three or four of the analog type that I was looking for, but the thermometer de jour is a remote probe that stays with the target during the entire cooking cycle. Most of them had a wire that had to be threaded through the oven and out the door. Then the remote display was used to monitor the temperature. The remote monitoring got pretty sophisticated in some cases where it's actually connected to the Internet and you can use your smartphone to see what's going on. But, I'm sure there were a couple with no wires at all and connected to a remote monitor. That sounds like my kind of thermometer.

Only one thing I put in the microwave would benefit from knowing the internal temperature. I bake potatoes in the microwave because it takes way less time than the conventional method. However, a "done" potato is 210F and that usually takes 5 minutes to accomplish. It could take 6, and that's when I wish I had a way to monitor the temperature inside the microwave. All I do now is measure it manually after the allotted time. If it's not done, another 30-60 seconds is all it needs.

[Kellemora]

Would you like to know a trick for perfect baked potatoes every time?

To start with, every microwave is slightly different, even the same brands, so you have to adjust the scale based on your experience with your own microwave.

You need to make a chart for yourself for One to Four Potatoes. But first use a notepad until you get the times right.
Also, have a tall cylindrical measuring cup. Ours holds four cups, has a handle, tapered from the bottom to the top, and has the graduation marks on it. Of course, it's a measuring cup, hi hi. I think it is called Rubbermaid Bouncer?

Here is the trick, add exactly 2 cups of water to the measuring cup, then place the ready-to-bake potato in the cup and get the new water level reading. Write this down in your notepad, along with the amount of time you cooked the potato for.
If it is not done enough, and you had to recook it for a bit longer, don't add the original time to the old time, because then it will be too much time. But do show that you did have to cook it longer in your notebook.

You will keep notes for every time you cook a potato based on how much water it displaced.
It won't take all that many times before you learn what time works for your microwave oven.

Once they come out perfect for you, in one shot of cooking. Then add your displacement number and time to your chart.

A little caveat: I used to use a gram scale to do this, and failed, because every potato has a different weight for the same volume of potato. Learned that the hard way!
I'm sure you've bought some pre-made potato salad where some of the potatoes were mushy and some harder than they should be. This is because they did not grade the potatoes before boiling them. Just an FYI.

Two potatoes take longer to cook than a single potato, but not as long as double the amount of time for a single.
Yeah, weird I know. This is why our chart shows times for One to Four potatoes in different columns.

Always remember to poke a hole or two in the potato skin! Don't want it to explode, hi hi.
Normally if you removed eyes or trimmed bad spots on the potato, it will be OK without holes in it.

On our microwave, a single potato usually takes around 5 min 15 seconds, but four potatoes take around 12 min 20 seconds. I don't remember the numbers on our chart off hand.

But the Water Displacement Method of measuring is an old method often used when measuring things like butter chunks, when a recipe calls for 8 ounces of butter and you have to have a way to measure the cold hard butter chunks.

[yogi]

Your perfect potato suggestion is amazing. I like the idea behind it because it accounts for the variations a single potato might contain. Your test results coincide with my general experiences. 5 min 15 sec @ 1000 watts will perfectly cook ... mmm ... 80% of the potatoes I buy. Unless we are having company, which is rare, only one potato gets baked. Wife and I share it. Poking holes in the tuber is necessary to achieve the "baked" consistency of the potato. Otherwise it is a steamed potato, if it does not explode first. Then, too, it really doesn't matter when microwaving a tater. The skin is mushy and not like a true baked skin.

The method I use was a trick offered in some magazine. The center temperature of the spud should be 210F when it is done. That works every time and does not require estimating times or measuring volume of the potato. From experience I know 5 minutes will get the tater edible. Perfection requires an actual measurement of the temperature.

It's interesting that you would suggest using the water displacement method to measure butter. I have in the past purchase butter in bulk. It's usually a single roll about one pound in weight. That's great stuff for putting on baked potatoes or finishing off certain foods, but it's not the best butter for baking cakes and cookies. Butter for daily use is packaged in standard sticks that are premeasured. It's not difficult at all to determine how much butter equals a single cup or 8 ounces. It's marked on the wrapper. LOL Of course, it's not exact. But you must know that nothing is exact when it comes to baking and cooking.

[Kellemora]

When I was in the restaurant business, we used water displacement measurements for a lot of things.
Potatoes was just one of them. However, that being said, most of the time this was more for inventory control rather than for cooking purposes. The law and/or the franchise owner requires many things be measured by volume and not weight.

Remember back when a can of Tuna was solid packed and very little water or oil, and now it is mostly oil or water, and very little tuna, hi hi.

My wife actually cooked some baked potatoes using the rotisserie in the browning oven. She like a hard crunch outer skin, and I like the soft out skin. She's the same way with breads also!

[yogi]

Volume weights might be good in some situations but they are terrible for baking. A cup of flour will have different weight, mass, and gluten content depending on the weather and how you pack it into the measuring cup. Also, perfect coffee can only be achieved by weighing the ingredients.

One day I will master the art of bread baking. It's a very tedious process which is why I have not spent more time learning. Mom would bake bread all the time and knead it by hand. I've be unable to perfect kneading in spite of viewing untold numbers of YouTube videos and watching experts do it on television. The crumb of the bread depends on proper kneading and I've only come close to achieving that. It's for that reason I use the KitchenAide mixer with a bread hook. However, that is not traditional and the methodology is completely different than kneading by hand. Once I get the crumb down pat, then the crust is another trick and a half. I've read a few things about how to make that crust crunchy and it doesn't seem too difficult. It's just a matter of the right amount of moisture while baking.

Until I get really really really ambitious, it will be Ppperidge Farm bread for me. LOL

[Kellemora]

Ha Ha, flour and coffee do not do well using water displacement methods, hi hi.

I lost it when I moved from my apartment, but I came up with a bread recipe you didn't have to knead much or let rise. It did it in the baking pans just like dinner rolls do.
I spent years hunting through everything after I had moved for it and never found it.

In the end, it actually costs more to make your own than buy it from the store pre-made, hi hi.

Debi finally sold her bread making machine, after she figured out it cost her around 6 bucks a loaf to make her own.