Apex Pro

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yogi
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Apex Pro

Post by yogi »

WEBSITE: https://steelseries.com/gaming-keyboards/apex-pro

Cherry's MX switch series is arguably the best you can buy in a keyboard. They come in various colors which indicated how the switch operates. It ranges from sensitivity that will create a key closure if you breath too hard on them all the way to those that require a deliberate effort to press; once past the switch point the key bottoms out and creates an audible click sound. There are about ten different versions of switches that have a vast array of qualities gamers are attracted to. My own personal experience is with the MX brown and red switches. The reds are the most sensitive and my meaty fingers resting on the home row of the keyboard would often cause unwanted key closures and lots of spelling errors. The repeat function being on high would cause a page of typing to fill up in just under one second. The browns are middle of the road and for me the most comfortable. But then, my gaming experience is limited and my demands low.

Truth be told, different characteristics in a keyboard are nice to have in different situations. When playing in a game tournament you want a much different keyboard than you would use to type these message here. Not only that, but different keys would ideally have different sensitivities. The home row, for example, would be more difficult to press than the number key row. This prevents errors and makes typing with fingers stretched a lot easier. The solution to all these needs seems to be present in the new Apex Pro keyboard I purchased from Steeleseries. The keys are full travel and have colored back lighting for those of us who enjoy eye candy. The back lights in my case also add to the visibility and clarity of the keys which my old eyes appreciate. But, the best part of this keyboard is that the keys are programmable. Each key sensitivity can be adjusted individually. The most sensitive setting will trigger a closer at .4mm of travel, while the highest setting triggers at 3.6mm of key travel. This is the perfect keyboard for a guy who simply can't leave well enough alone. :lol:

The keys are mechanical with the full travel us touch typists appreciate. Their construction involves the use of a magnet at the bottom of each key. They don't call it Hall Effect but that is exactly what it seems to be. There is a spring return that is guaranteed to work 100,000,000 times but no other contact parts. When a key is pressed it will cause a closure anywhere from .4 to 3.6 millimeters down. The key press resistance remains the same for all settings. That is the big difference between these key switches and the Cherry switches. The resistance to ones fingers pushing on the keys of a Cherry switch varies depending on the color of the key. Not so with this Apex keyboard. At first I thought that might be a problem. But now that I have a few hours of experience, I am very comfortable with the light touch required but the difference in travel needed to close a key on the home row verses the rows above and below.

As the ad on the box says, this MAY be the last keyboard I'll ever need to buy.

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Kellemora
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Re: Apex Pro

Post by Kellemora »

Don't laugh. The keyboards I found with the weighting of the keys I like is sold under the Gigaware brand by Radio Shack.
RS sold them for like 39.95 without the backlight or 59.95 with the backlight.
I bought an entire case without backlight so got them for 19.95 each. I only have one left.
I got really good service from these cheap keyboards, about 4 years each before I wore holes in the space bar or letter A key, sometimes other keys like the letter L might get a hole first, but it is usually the spacebar, so I glue a thin strip of plastic over it, hi hi. On this one, I have a small hole on the left shift key from my fingernail.

I don't think these keyboards have switches or pads under the keys that must touch the circuit board, if they did they probably wouldn't last as long as they do. I think they use optical sensors and the press of the key blocks the light.
I say this, because if a key does stop working for some reason, blowing out the keyboard makes it work again. And with the protector shield blowing it out would not get to the circuit board.
It could be switches, but it doesn't feel like it when typing, to velvety of a touch for that.

I looked a few other keyboards lately and some of them are expensive 300 to 500 dollars, for a keyboard.
The thing here too is, even though I looked at several, I never saw one I really liked. I really don't want one that lights up, it would be distracting to look over at my monitor inside my desk.

Yes Cherry Switches are the worlds best. It's all we had in all the gaming machines I used to work on.
And most of my meeces had Cherry switches in them too for the buttons.

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yogi
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Re: Apex Pro

Post by yogi »

Just about every one of the over priced keyboards I purchased lately has extra key caps and a gizmo to pull off the old ones. I'm sure if you bought enough of them you could get them for a good price from the manufacturer. Seems like it would be easier to replace a keycap than to rebuild it.

This keyboard has a program to set it up. There are 5 default profiles built into the board itself but if I wanted to change something here or on the mouse I would need the "Engine" program to do it. Since I don't particularly like the default profiles I downloaded the program and made some pretty nifty adjustments. I'm doing all this on my WIndows 7 machine which I do not turn off at the end of the day. I simply let it go to sleep. In the past I've had some problems here and there with programs not wanting to wake up properly. That is exactly what happened with this Engine program. So I had to fiddle with the adjustments manually and then reboot. After the reboot the Engine went bonkers and would not do some things it was doing previously. So, I uninstalled it and reinstalled. That only made it worse. Did that about three times and got an error message saying some .dll file was missing. It was in the directory it was supposed to be in; the program simply could not find it. Obviously the software was not fully debugged but they sent it to me anyway. The keyboard is brand new but the Engine has been around for their previous models. I did the firmware update but it didn't fix anything. So now I have a trouble ticket open with SteelSeries who promised to get back to me in two business days. I guess that's the price one pays for being on the cutting edge, but FFS why can't they finish developing the software before they release the product? I'm thinking HP here. They do the same damned thing with their printers.

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Kellemora
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Re: Apex Pro

Post by Kellemora »

Sounds like a keyboard that won't work at all on Linux machines.

At one time I had a keyboard that all the switches and caps were replaceable.
And each one had a little set screw to set the tension lighter or harder.
Sounds good until you try to buy the replacement switches or caps.
You could get them from the mfgr. if you bought a box of a dozen switches.
But they no longer had the caps.
So, as keys wore out, most prematurely, I switched them for keys I rarely used.
That was the last 100 dollar plus keyboard I ever bought, all the rest have been under 25 dollars.

I had about six or seven brand new keyboards here that came free with computers.
They were horrible little cheap keyboards, but handy to have around to plug in when you need to test a computer.

My insurance company insisted on my getting the FreeStyle Lite BG monitor and strips, Instead of the AccuLite model I already had, but they won't pay for the strips no more.
When I went to get the computer cable for it Abbott wants 55 bucks for a 3 dollar connecting cable.
The the real killer, it requires THEIR software to read the device, and it is only available for Windows and MAC.

I talked the insurance company about the problem, and they said my doctor has the cable and program.
Talked to my doctor, brought my meter with me, and the paperwork I did by hand over the required three month span.
I only brought the paperwork just in case. He said yes they sent us a cable and the software, but it does not run on our system, so we have no way of reading your meter.

My AccuLite came with the software for Windows, MAC, Linux, and Android. They also supplied the data cord.
All I had to do was plug my meter into the machine, and would print out one week of the old data, and 93 days of current data on only one sheet of paper, and it looked nice.
If I brought my meter with me, the doc would plug it in and it was saved to my file.

The insurance company won't cover my strips if I don't provide the paperwork showing I did all the tests each day.
Nasty SOBs.

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yogi
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Re: Apex Pro

Post by yogi »

This Apex Pro keyboard is similar in design to the past two gaming keybaards I've owned. They all work on Linux because the software that drives the special features is internal. There is a small processor inside the keyboard to perform all the nifty little light shows. Creating profiles to change the light show or manipulate the sensitivities of the mouse is a separate program that must be installed into the OS. That might not be available in Linux, but it doesn't matter. Once the profiles are created they can be stored internal to the keyboard or in The Cloud. The keyboard and mouse is just another peripheral as far as Linux is concerned.

I don't do all the typing that you do so that my main interest is in performance as opposed to durability. I might get a set of replacement key caps if I think I'll use this board long enough, but by the time the keys wear out I'll be ready for the new technology of the day. If this Apex is as good as they advertise, keyboards and desktops will be obsolete by the time it breaks mechanically. LOL

Insurance companies are a necessary evil. They all have different approaches to the business as well. By the time you find one that you can deal with on your terms, you'll be too old to take care of your own finances. It's always a slap in the face when the insurance company thinks they know what is best for you. All they are doing is forcing you to do business with companies they made previous deals with. I guess in the long run it's cheaper that way - you'd pay higher premiums if you could pick and choose on your own treatments.
Last edited by yogi on 14 Aug 2019, 18:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Kellemora
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Re: Apex Pro

Post by Kellemora »

My wife's son is a gamer and besides having fancy computers that cost mucho big bucks, he has the keyboards and other gaming devices that go along with it.

I'm usually typing all day long, which is why I wear holes in the spacebar and some of the keys, also my skin is fairly dry so probably works like sandpaper, hi hi.

Don't get me going on these crazy insurance companies, hi hi.

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yogi
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Re: Apex Pro

Post by yogi »

I complain a lot about tech support because I used to provide that when I had a paying job. Now when I see other people lacking, it really bugs me. The trouble ticket I submitted about the keyboard software Engine has not been resolved as of this writing. The goofus assigned to my case is obviously lacking in knowledge. His first response was to tell me to turn on a Windows service that is not used by their software. I did it anyway, and of course had to write back to tell him that didn't fix it. His second reply was telling me to turn off the antivirus software because that sometimes prevents their program from running. Why they would be releasing software that doesn't work with antivirus software is beyond speculation. Be that as it may, I wrote back to inform him that I do not have any antivirus software installed. Guess again!

No response was received from my last input and I am hoping this guy is looking for somebody in the company that knows something about the software. Maybe that "somebody" will have the answer. Maybe not. I really would hate to have to send this nice keyboard back because it is useless to me without the editing software.

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Kellemora
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Re: Apex Pro

Post by Kellemora »

Years ago, Logitech made this little handheld scanner, it only copied about a 3-1/2 inch wide area. But came with a stitching program to do portrait pages in horizontal passes and put them together as a page.
I'm thinking this was back in the Windows 3.11 days.
I bought it to copy obituaries out of the newspaper for genealogy work, and scan my cash register receipts for the accounting program I was using at the time, Cougar Mountain.
What surprised me more than anything is even long after this little handheld scanner was discontinued, Logitech continued to write drivers for it for Windows XP, XP Pro, and yes, even for XP Pro MCE which was a horse of a different color.
When I was playing around with Linux early on, using RedHat, I was more than surprised to find they wrote a driver for RedHat and another Linux Distro, but those didn't have the stitching program like the one for RedHat.
Even so, I abandoned Linux and went back to Windows XP for years. Vista is what drove me back to Linux.

I also had a Digital Camera from when they first came out. Just a cheap one, at the time, still over a 100 bucks.
It came with a lot of software, all for Windows XP. They also came out with a driver when XP PRO MCE came out.
This was one of my cues that MCE was a different animal, and why my expensive new HP scanner would not work.
Needless to say, I was surprised as all get out when I tried reading the data from the camera on my Debian Linux Distro. It did so with no additional drivers needed. But neither Windows XP or XP MCE could read it without the special Windows driver for both XP and/or XP MCE.

Although highly outdated now, I miss all those little programs I got with cameras, scanners, and printers, back when I was running Windows. Some of those programs were locked or looked to make sure you had their printer connected before they would work, hi hi. So little by little I had to abandon all those little programs I liked so well. Also, most would no longer run unless you ran them in XP 32 compatibility mode, if they ran at all.

The thing I like about the HP Printer I have, is it needs no Scanner Software or Drivers, it is all internal to the Printer and sends it output to a USB Stick, or prints out what you scanned.

On one of the forums I'm on, they are saying that the software that comes with almost any device, not the drivers, but the supplemental software, there is no real reason for the companies not to port it over to MAC and Linux .rpm or .deb for Linux users. The software is usually written in assembly language and ported to Windows as an .exe file.
There are a couple of large companies who request the source file so they can do so and distribute as 3rd party software, but they can only do so much, and the backlog is based on the number of users of a device, whether they tackle it or not.

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yogi
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Re: Apex Pro

Post by yogi »

Steelseries has been around as a company for many years. They have a full line of peripherals and not only for gamers. As is always the case you need to "improve" your product in order to increase sales. This keyboard with programmable switches is the bees knees. I love the idea but can't really use it until the supplemental software works on my computer. The keyboard is pretty smart and has a processor built in. I'm fairly certain that all the programming of the switches and lights and macros can be done without their software. It's just a heck of a lot easier to do it via a GUI. There are no instructions in the box to tell me how to do any of this manually, unfortunately.

The tech support guy only works afternoons from what I can tell. His e-mails always arrive late in the afternoon. No doubt he is taking care of all the easy complaints before he gets an urge to look at my problem again. Yesterday he asked if I used their Cloud Service to store the profiles I cannot make. I told him I would not use it even if the software did work. Never heard back from that comment, but it's still early afternoon. I have come to the point where I am thinking of making this guy an offer. I want the instruction manual that tells me how to program the keyboard and mouse manually, OR, I want him to initiate a return order after which time I will go to their website on Facebook and let the world know about my experience.

I'm going to guess that the engineer who wrote the program I can't use is located in China and doesn't speak English very well. He doesn't use Windows 7 on his development computer, of course. Which would be fine if they didn't support my OS outright, but they claim in no uncertain terms that Win 7 is supported.

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Kellemora
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Re: Apex Pro

Post by Kellemora »

Sounds almost like my problems with HP and their scanner.

Some hardware manufacturers are wising up by installing the controlling software right in the device itself.
A few devices, you can control from any web browser used on any OS, because it is not reliant on the OS, only on the web browser to change the settings.

Speaking of which, I just got an update notice for my Router in yesterdays e-mail.
They have a firmware update to make it compatible with some changes made to web browsers over the past few years.
When I went to the website they had a whole new setting page, and note at the top to revert to the old page if I've not yet upgraded the firmware.
I went to the old page and it said I had to disconnect all connections from the ports of the router except for the input from the modem, and use a direct connection to the computer I'm using to run the firmware upgrade.
Well, since I was in my office, I have not done it yet.
Maybe tonight.

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yogi
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Re: Apex Pro

Post by yogi »

Well yeah ... if you are going to change the firmware in the router, you can't be using it while it's being updated. I''m always suspicious of firmware updates that come down years after the product was first released. Some bugs always need to be worked out the first year, but after that any updates tell me a previously unknown vulnerability was found. That's wonderful for them to be fixing it, but how long have you been exposed to the vulnerability? Then, too, as you say the whole internet changes on a daily basis. At some point the old hardware isn't good enough. Hopefully the update all goes well for you.

Yesterday's email from SteelSeries was a set of instructions on how to get an RMA going. They decided it's the hardware and not the software. I've returned a few things I purchases on the internet over the years, but this process is a new one on me. They want copies of the purchase receipts (I bought it direct from them), of course, plus unedited photograph from several different angles showing the product. One such photo must include the serial number tag. Once I hand all that over, I will receive further instructions; they will want me to ship the keyboard back to them or to show proof that I destroyed it. Say what!? LOL

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Kellemora
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Re: Apex Pro

Post by Kellemora »

I did the update to the router last night, after reading a bit more about it first.
Apparently it has more to do with Microsoft Edge than it does with Google Chrome or Firefox.
Their on-line control program had several features showing denied access by Edge users, and a few Firefox users.
The same problem started with folks using Chrome after the most recent update.

I guess their website was not up to snuff.
By the way, while I was at their website and switched over to the original page I was used to using, guess what.
It was still HTML TRANSITIONAL, no wonder they were having problems, hi hi.

Debi had a third TV box from DirecTV, and had that third TV turned off to save a few bucks.
They kept charging her for the box, said it was because she didn't return it.
They told her that the box was old and not used anymore, to just destroy it.
She was smart and just put it in a box in her closet.
She finally got them to take it off the bill, and told them again she was told to destroy it, but to be safe, she stuck it in her closet, if they want to send an RMA for it, she will be glad to ship it back to them. Once again they said no, just destroy it. So there it sits, in the closet, waiting for the next time they say she didn't return it.

I bought a new Blood Pressure testing unit for the upper arm. It didn't work. They refunded my money, but they too said destroy it and send us a digital photo that you did so. I had to have PHUN with this, so I had the frau take a picture of me holding a rifle pointed at the device, then a picture of it on the ground splayed open like an exploded cigar. I guess that appeased them, hi hi.

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yogi
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Re: Apex Pro

Post by yogi »

I have had to return a few things, but never was told to send evidence of destruction. Thinking it over I had this idea similar to yours. I want to save the key caps. In an effort not to harm them I intend to put the keyboard into a vice and slice it in half using my circular saw set to a depth just short of the key switches. I then would photograph the two halves and possibly add some catsup pouring out from the insides. I'm sure I'm not the only person to be creative like that. Then, too, I also had wondered what they consider destruction is enough. The usb cable is hard wired into the circuit board so that the keyboard would effectively be destroyed (or unusable) by merely cutting off the USB cable.

Not sure what I'll do yet. I didn't hear from them last night and have no "further instructions" regarding what I should do next. Hopefully that means they are just perusing my documentation.

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Kellemora
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Re: Apex Pro

Post by Kellemora »

One of our larger recycling companies here, has a humongous machine that eats stuff.
They don't have separation facilities, so the shredded stuff gets sent to Georgia I think for separating and recycling.
The guts of this thing look exactly like the guts inside a paper shredder only much larger.
They can drop furniture, or appliances into it and it devours them.

At the recycling plant, huge electromagnets pull steel out of the tumbling shredded heap, before it goes into the liquid separation towers. I'm not sure what order things are done in there, and there is nothing to see by visiting.
I do know there are a few air-blast areas before the big tanks. Probably to separate paper, cloth, and some thin plastics.

My point, what if you shredded an old keyboard and took a picture of the shreds and sent that to them, hi hi.

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yogi
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Re: Apex Pro

Post by yogi »

First of all, I'm not 100% convinced the problem is with the keyboard. I felt all along they simply didn't do a good job updating the standard editing engine when they came out with this new model. But, I will take a new keyboard if they are willing to send one. Your idea did cross my mind too. However, I already sent them six photos of the existing keyboard viewed from every which side. The shredding would have to be extremely fine in order to obliterate the identity of the keyboard. Not sure I would know how to do that. But, even so, if I managed to hoodwink them and kept the keyboard, it's defective. Well, admittedly not totally defective but enough to be annoying. I guess it would make a good emergency backup, but I already have a couple of those in the closet.

Anyway, they have the option of wanting it back. Since I have not received further instructions from them I have to keep things as they are until I know what the next move is going to be. Their support has been marginal so far. If it gets worse I'll just eat the cost of this mistake and get a different keyboard.

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Kellemora
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Re: Apex Pro

Post by Kellemora »

Although we pay fairly big bucks for electronic items, in most cases the store who sold it to you will get a replacement from the manufacturer and told to dump it also.
The cost of handling a return is usually greater than the initial cost of the item to the distributor.

My frau works at Ace hardware and they get a lot of stuff back, and what is returned as defective often gets tossed in the trash bin. So she comes home with a few things. Just the other day she brought home a big plastic owl. It had a solar cell and a solenoid to cause the head to turn a little every five minutes or so. The spring was not over the ratchet pawl. Unfortunately that didn't fix it, because the store owner took out the battery pack to use in something else, hi hi.
So now it sits on our deck and the wind spins the head around, hi hi.

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yogi
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Re: Apex Pro

Post by yogi »

In one of my previous experiences with a defective mouse I purchased from Amazon the routine was a bit different. I contacted Amazon and they wanted nothing to do with it. The mouse shipped from a retailer and I was instructed to deal with the retailer for any returns. So, I wrote to the retailer and he was pretty honest. He said that normally he will not accept returns and that I would have to deal with the manufacturer. However, since he is under contract with Amazon he is obliged to take back defective merchandise. Well, I got the hint and went right to the manufacturer, which turned out to be an excellent decision. I went to their web site where they bragged about how great they are at customer service blah blah blah. The commentary was signed by some VP of marketing who ended it by claiming if I was not happy with what I purchased, I can contact him personally. An e-mail address was provided. I figured it was all a lot of BS, but I ranted to him much the same as I do here. LOL He called me and we had a nice discussion after which he sent me a "free" mouse without the need to return the defective one. Plus, he included a tee shirt and a video game (Duke Nukem) for my trouble. I still have that new mouse in it's original package. It was sent after four previously bad ones. I went out and got a different brand after that, but am very impressed that a real VP took interest in one of their customer's problems.

The Apex Pro folks don't have customer service, apparently. They hired a company https://www.zendesk.com/ to do their dirty work for them. As I related earlier the e-mails from them only come once a day around 5 PM and that is due to the fact this CSR is probably located ten time zones away from here. I got instructions from them to destroy the product and send pictures. One has to have the s/n and some QR code that doesn't exist. So there could be a battle on that point. If all goes well, I will get a credit code that I can use in their online store to buy a new keyboard with the hope it is in stock. So, that tells me nobody at SteelSeries is in the loop. It's all outsourced and essentially peopleless. I have this suspicion that when I get the new keyboard, I will have the identical problem. I still think it's software and not hardware, but the Zen CSR dude has no clue. He's getting his expertise from a flowchart.

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Kellemora
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Re: Apex Pro

Post by Kellemora »

Sounds like my experience with Logitech YEARS AGO, but not today anymore.
One of my thumball meeces would double-click when you pressed the left mouse button.
Naturally the warranty was out because I bought six at once, and it was like the fourth one I opened.
I had another one that the scroll wheel eventually quit on, so took both apart and just switched the switches.
It has worked fine ever since. I did open my very last one when I got the Silver Yogi, and it still works great also.
They no longer make this particular mouse, but some sellers have used ones for sale for around 35 to 40 bucks.
As long as I have a couple that work, I can always steel one from another machine and stick a regular mouse on it.

Press One for English and still get someone who can't speak English, hi hi.
I thought my Cables To Go KVM gave up the ghost right after I got it.
I called and left my number, since that's how they do it there.
I really didn't expect to hear back from them for a few days, but before ten minutes had elapsed I got a call.
The guy had me push the reset button on the back and it went back to working right.
He asked what was in my office, and I started to say several computer, a couple of printers, and he stopped me right there and asked if I had a Paper Shredder in my office. I said yes, and he asked where it was. I said to the right of my desk.
He said if I have any further problems with the KVM, try closing my keyboard drawer before using the paper shredder, if I still have a problem, move the paper shredder to the other side of the room. I said it is definitely on a separate power circuit, to which he said it sends out EMF from the motor and my keyboard is picking it up.

Now after some time elapsed, I was only having the problem when the keyboard was pulled out, and very rarely if the keyboard was pushed in. There was plenty of cord on my keyboard so I made a small coil and clipped a magnetic block around the loops of the coil. Have never had a problem since.
But sometimes when I'm doing a whole lot of printing, I notice the KVM will hang on the USB port lights. So I took a plastic artist brush and cut the brush off, heated the small end of the handle so I could bend it to an L shape. So now I can just use it to reach behind the KVM and slide it around until I hit the hole with the reset button, and I'm back in business again, hi hi.

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yogi
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Re: Apex Pro

Post by yogi »

RESET buttons are almost as good as the universal fix for nearly all computer problems: shut down the computer and do a cold boot. LOL

A reset button is the first thing I looked for when I started to have problems. One or two of my other gaming keyboards have such a thing. It wipes out any stored profiles, but it brings psychotic keyboards back to normal. Well, no such button on my Apex Pro.

I received an e-mail today with a "special" code I am to use in the company store. It will buy me the identical keyboard and include free shipping. So, the first thing I did was to go to the company store website. My keyboard "will be available soon." That's the same message I got when I bought it the first time. There was a little box in which I could provide my e-mail address so that they can notify me when the stock is replenished. Apparently they ran out in two weeks, which does not surprise me. It's a fabulous keyboard if it actually can do what they say it can. The code I have will expire in 60 days, at which time I will be up the proverbial creek without a paddle. Well, if it looks like we are approaching that deadline I'll be making some noise online. But the last time this happened it was only about a two week wait. My old keyboard will do in the meantime.

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Kellemora
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Re: Apex Pro

Post by Kellemora »

Well, I hope you get your new keyboard sooner than later and LONG before the expiration of your code.

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