Ski By Fire

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yogi
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by yogi » 17 Mar 2019, 19:35

I suppose if you take in something long enough you would be able to distinguish all the qualities that vary from other origins. A wine connoisseur, for example, would be able to do the same thing. The only thing I could detect in soda of any sort was the sugar. Invariably my taste buds would revolt to the artificial sweeteners.

I can see why RO water was standardized. Apparently there were more people than yourself who could tell the difference between bottlers. That's not a good thing when you are trying to establish a brand image. I'm guessing it added to the costs of bottling, but it must have been worth it to make the product uniform.

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Kellemora
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by Kellemora » 18 Mar 2019, 12:19

Yes, it was an excellent move on their part to keep the taste uniform.
But then, unfortunately, it does not apply to fountain soda, where they can fiddle with the machines settings, and they only use carbon filters for the water.
When I worked at the Drive-In theater when I was around 14 years old. The machines they owned were real carbonation machines, made their own carbonated water without using gas cylinders like the machines today do.
We used a bit more syrup than we should because they were set by the bosses taste not the syrup companies long glass tube with the dot at the bottom, hi hi.

I do know early RO systems wasted more water than they got from the usable output end. Don't know about the ones they make today though, but would still think they had to have a certain amount of waste.

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yogi
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by yogi » 18 Mar 2019, 13:23

When we finished building the last house we owned we looked into water purification systems because the village was still pumping about 80% well water into our supply. We looked at reverse osmosis but it was expensive for what they estimated we would need to keep a family of four clean and healthy. We opted for ozone injection instead. The ozone in the water had the benefit of killing off bacteria which turned the inside of the plumbing black. For a slight additional cost they outfitted our water pipes with magnets that somehow purified the water. I read up on that theory and found mixed reviews. Magnetic water seems to work only on straight line pipes. Any bends in the piping upsets the balance. After living there about a dozen years we had a plumber out to fix a problem in the drain pipes. He was amazed that there was nothing in those pipes. I told him about the magnets and the ozone and all he did was shake his head. LOL

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Kellemora
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by Kellemora » 19 Mar 2019, 11:33

We had a water filter here, not whole house, that uses a sediment filter, a heavy metals filter, a UV cylinder, and it injects ozone in the line before the water moves through the final compressed carbon filter. We used it about eight years before the cost of the filters got more than I wanted to pay for them, and it was about time to replace the UV light again too.

I switched to another cheaper system that used a sediment filter, heavy metals filter, and silver impregnated compressed carbon filter before passing through a series of micron filters 5, 4, and 2 microns. We could get the 1 micron filter but it would have to be replaced about once a month and would make the water too sterile. The cartridge that held the 5 and 4 micron filters was a single unit, both filters were pleated like car air filter, so they would last longer. So was the 2 micron filter, but the length of the paper must have been really long because you almost couldn't see between the folds they were so tight together. But heck, at 2 microns, the water coming out was almost as pure as distilled water. If we added the 1 micron filter, the water would be equivalent to triple distilled lab grade pure water.

I never used magnets on my water pipes, however I did use magnets on my fuel line in my cars back in the late 60s to early 80s.
It seemed to do something good so I kept using them. This was on cars with carburetors, no way to put them on a fuel injected car, hi hi.
I used to drive from St. Louis out to Rolla once a week, and from St. Louis out to Jefferson City once a month, always taking the exact same route. In the Impala, it always took around around 7-3/4 gallons on the trip out, 7-1/2 gallons on the trip back. I measured it carefully before I started using the magnets. Only supposed to use one, but I used four, hi hi.
With the magnets in place, it only took about 7 gallons on the trip out, and 6-3/4 gallons on the way back. I averaged this out over several months and was convinced it was making a difference.
On the trip to Jefferson City I could never get an accurate enough reading to make comparisons. Each trip something unexpected happened, like a detour, or the parking area I normally used was full or closed, or I could only park on a hill, not on level ground. I liked to park in the same spot when making comparisons.

I can say this, using different brands of gasoline also made a huge difference in gas mileage on the long runs. Not so much around the city though. Sunoco used to have blending pumps, so you could mix the lower grade with the upper grade and come out with what you wanted for your car. Around town I used the cheapest grade, but when going on a highway trip, I filled up with Sunoco 260. It cost more, but on a long trip came out cheaper because your car used a lot less, and had a lot more pep too. The equivalent of using 92 octane vs 94, or 96 octane I suppose.
My Camaro did not like the 92 octane gas, it would knock, so I usually bought 94, unless going on a trip then it would be 96. Darn Camaro would ping if I used 96 for driving around town, and adjusting the timing didn't help much.

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yogi
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by yogi » 19 Mar 2019, 15:17

Now that you mention it, the guy who installed the magnets on our water system did say the idea came from people who use them on fuel lines. All I know is that our water pipes stayed clean so that the quality of the water we were drinking had to be better with magnetized H2O. We had to get rid of the ozonator for the same reasons you did. The exchange unit had to be serviced once a year and got to be quite expensive.

I recall those SUNOCO gas stations but seldom used them. The Texaco was a lot closer and more convenient. At one time I kept meticulous records for the two cars we owned. After a few years it was clearly obvious that octane didn't seem to do much but the brand certainly made a big difference in gas mileage. Shell was the worst and would coat the carb with what looked like varnish after just one tankful. Mobile gave the best mileage and kept the fuel system cleaner. I don't know the exact numbers anymore but it seems like the difference between Mobile and Shell was in the range of 4 mpg.

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Kellemora
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by Kellemora » 20 Mar 2019, 10:26

I agree on the brands for sure. We used Mobil in all of our cars and trucks for many decades.
We must have had over 20 different brands of gas available in our area. Everything from Bob Regals Texas discount to Peabody's Coal Tar gas.
Lion Gas was the worst of them all. Anytime you got behind a car that blew orange smoke when they accelerated, you knew they were running Lion Gas, which was made from Monsanto waste products.
We had Gulf Oil, Standard Oil, Shell, Sinclair, Mobil, Lion, American, Sunoco, White, Phillips 66, Bob Regals, Froesel, Star, Esso, Cities Gas, Fast Lane, plus several independents, and some stores like Showcase Distributors, Venture, and others, who had a gas islands.
I only used the Sunoco brand when I lived in Kirkwood and was doing weekly travels out west. Most of the rest of my early life I used Mobil, because that is where our business and personal accounts were established.
But to keep the faith with some other locals, we would buy from both Shell and Gulf. The man who owned the Gulf station, his wife started working for us when she was 16, and was still there in her 70s, so we used him for all the step vans.
I think the only thing we used the Shell station for was our tractor trailers, because our Mobil station didn't have room for us to pull a semi in and I don't think they had diesel either. The Shell station had 4 lanes for semis off to its side.

Yeppers, the difference between Mobil and Shell was notably different, which is why we rarely bought anything but diesel from Shell.
My grandfather kept immaculate log books on every single truck we owned.
This is one of the reasons we only bought Ford trucks in the end, when there were many different drivers, and Chevy trucks for single driver vehicles. His records went all the way back to Dodge Brothers Trucks for the company.
I wish I still had some of those old records I cobbed from the warehouse and got more before they bulldozered the place over.

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yogi
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by yogi » 20 Mar 2019, 14:33

When I first started driving in Chicago about the age of 16, there were many different brands of gas stations in the neighborhood. About a dozen years later something happened in Chicago to change all that. I'm not sure what it was other than a political ploy but all the small independents suddenly vanished. There were only three or four major brands available after that purge and the prices were identical at most stations. Previously there used to be price wars where I recall a gallon of gas going for less than 25 cents on occasion. Once the major brands took over there were no more price wars and very few alternatives. It wasn't a monopoly technically, but you can bet your bottom dollar some kind of sweetheart deal made that all happen.

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Kellemora
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by Kellemora » 22 Mar 2019, 10:37

Ah, you're back. Couldn't see a way to post at first, then I saw I wasn't logged in.

I started driving when I was 14, actually 12 if you count tractors, hi hi.
That don't mean I drove on the roads per se, but did cross a few on the way to school.
When I did turn 16 and got my drivers license, I did a lot of traveling for a short time.
Out on the open road, going through Kansas, gas was only 15 cents between towns, as most counties there did not yet tax gasoline. But around my town it was 24 cents until I turned 16 then jumped up to 33 cents, and has been climbing ever since.

We had basically the same thing happen as far as gas stations go. But this was way back, when we only had Esso and Standard, Mobil and Shell were not in our town yet, and Gulf was a newcomer after Standard. Froesel Oil was an independent supplier who picked up the Mobil logo somewhere along the line. Once they did that, they could no longer sell to independent stations, but they could keep our on-site tanks filled for us.

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yogi
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by yogi » 22 Mar 2019, 13:50

I've run into the same problem you did regarding posting. Sometimes I reset things and don't log in again until I have trouble posting to the board. My solution to that is to change the skin from the default to one of the other choices. That way I can tell if I'm logged in just by looking at the layout.

Apparently there are not that many oil refineries, and they all seem to be running at 100% capacity all the time. This boils down to many distributes getting their gasoline from the same refinery. Oddly enough it's not all the same formula for each brand. Even within a single brand the formula may be different. Chicago, for example, had a special low pollution blend while the rest of the state got the stuff right out of the refinery. This all makes me wonder why there are so many different brands. There are not that many refineries.

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Kellemora
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by Kellemora » 23 Mar 2019, 10:18

Before a truck fills up at a refinery, they first stop under the additives tower. This is how each company has their own blends and their own additives blend. But not all companies, meaning the independents, add any additives, although most now add Ethanol, a few stations do not.

One brand, besides the Ethanol, may get Concentrated Octane Boost added to the tank truck before filling up.
Another brand may choose the Non-Metalic Octane Boost, and some of the higher priced fuels may get the Organic Cetane Improver added to their tank truck before filling up. Or they may get a blend of a little of each, just to keep their brand consistent regardless of what refinery they buy their gasoline grades from.

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yogi
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by yogi » 23 Mar 2019, 14:17

So, the thing that makes the brands different is the additives. The gasoline is the same for everybody. Given the way refineries work I guess that makes sense.

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Kellemora
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by Kellemora » 24 Mar 2019, 11:38

I think it also makes a difference at what level the gas comes out of the main refineries distillation tank, before it goes into the various grading tanks. At the top of the distillation column would be things like Propane and Butane, below that would be gasoline, below that would be kerosene, below that diesel fuel, below that fuel oil, below that tar.
So I'm sure each brand gets from a certain level of the distillation tank. The lower in the tank, the cheaper the grade of gas because it is heavier but not quite kerosene, hi hi. Too high in the tank and it could be to hot burning, so may be used as jet fuel. Although jet fuel does come from both the top and bottom of the fuel ranges, thin or thick depending on the type of jet engine it is for.
We both remember the days of Regular and Ethyl. The higher the octane rating, the more tetraethyl was added to the fuel to boost the octane rating. Tatraethyl is no longer used in fuels, and what they use now to boost octane is probably worse, hi hi.

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yogi
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by yogi » 24 Mar 2019, 18:32

Not only do I recall tetraethyl but I'm only about two miles away from an honest to goodness ethyl gas pump. It belongs to the restaurant by the same name, Ethyl's not Tetraethyl's, and of course is just for decoration. I'm thinking the restaurant or at least some of the artifacts scattered about were part of the old Rt 66. The highway itself came through or near town, but I don't think this restaurant was actually on it. Back when I was 14 or so, a neighbor of ours was a long haul trucker. He bought himself a new Buick and asked if I wanted to travel with him down Rt 66 to Los Angeles. I did and that was the only time I traveled on the old historic highway. We stopped in the middle of Arizona one night where there were no buildings in sight. We got out of the car to look at the night sky. It was dazzling and a sight I still remember. Never seen anything like it since. The city lights wash out a good portion of the sky's brilliance.

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Kellemora
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by Kellemora » 25 Mar 2019, 11:28

I lived on the Original Route-66 - Manchester Road!

I wrote an article a few years back on the various paths Route-66 followed through Saint Louis over the years.
And why after one time it changed, folks bypassed it to go out of their way to cross the original bridge it used.

When I was younger, I followed several highways to see where they went.
It's amazing how many of them went places other than where the main traffic flow went.
In some cases, this was because the main path of travel changed but the route path stayed the same.
Other times they changed the route to bypass congested areas.

Yes, the sky is awesome when you are away from city lights. Saw it from the middle of Kansas several times.

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yogi
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by yogi » 25 Mar 2019, 14:28

It's hard to believe people traveled from state to state on a two lane highway, but that's all Rt 66 was in most places. I seem to recall something like Turners Turnpike, or some such tollway, in Oklahoma. We took that road but I'm not certain it was part of 66. Seems like it should have been. I believe there was another one in Arizona, but I don't recall the name of that one. They had tollways all the way back in 1958. LOL

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Kellemora
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by Kellemora » 26 Mar 2019, 11:59

Back when I first started driving OTR, most of the highways between major cities were two-lane, and sometimes passed through small towns with no reduction in speed. Could be scary at times.
The roads were all concrete slabs back then too, and I don't think a single one was level anymore, hi hi.
When driving through Kansas, you had the option of taking the highway forming a huge square around a farm, or paying a toll to the farmer to use his new road that took you straight from where had to turn right, all the way across his farm to where you end up if you took the long way around. Private tollways like this were prevalent all throughout Kansas and western Missouri, and probably elsewhere too.

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yogi
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by yogi » 26 Mar 2019, 14:39

WOW, what a concept! I never came across private toll roads. Then again, I don't do a lot of cross country traveling. In Illinois the state took over all tolls, which ran into a lot of resistance at first. But they promised the tolls would pay for the highway and no additional tax dollars would be needed. As crooked as the government is in Illinois, they kept that part of the bargain for a long time. There were a lot of bonds floated eventually which wasn't part of the original plan. I guess the cost of maintenance got out of hand when it was farmed out to all the politicians' relatives.

A few years ago I met a farmer who built a small aircraft runway on his property. He had his own plane but also collected fees from occasional stray aircraft that landed. I forgot the reason why, but he'd get a few private landings each month. I think he was selling flight fuel and somehow the pilots knew about it. All I recall with certainty was that I really admired this guy for his creativeness.

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Kellemora
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by Kellemora » 27 Mar 2019, 11:02

Down in Jefferson County MO we had a man build a steel bridge and charged 2 bucks for anyone who wanted to use it. He paid for the bridge in under 3 years and dropped the toll to only a buck. Then the county passed some law about connections to their roads and they wouldn't give him one for folks to use his bridge.
This didn't stop folks though, even though the city put up short little utility pole barricades up and down their easement, folks still got off the road and drove down the land on the other side if their easement.
The County finally bought his bridge and made easements on his land for access to and from it, paid him a pretty penny for it too.

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yogi
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by yogi » 27 Mar 2019, 13:34

Then there are the cases where the government takes s short cut through your property without your agreement. I'm thinking oil pipelines as an example. Your story about the bridge in Jefferson County just goes to show that people will do what is easiest and most convenient for them. It's a shame the powers that be can't figure it out sooner than they do.

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Kellemora
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Re: Ski By Fire

Post by Kellemora » 28 Mar 2019, 13:43

I had two easements in my backyard when I lived in Creve Coeur, which actually surprised me because the lines ran up between the houses behind me and ended at my property line.
However, the easement across the backyard was for underground services that had nothing at all to do with our subdivision.
We could still use that area of our yard, but could not plant trees there. Bushes were OK, with the understanding they could be torn out without recourse if the need arose, and of course no small buildings or sheds either.
One of the easements were for telephonic cable, and the other was for watershed, but not part of the subdivisions watershed sewer lines, so I don't know what was down there. Could be an old creek from before the subdivision was built.
Never did figure out what the telephonic cable easement was for. Had nothing to do with our telephones, they came down between the backyards, and the trunkline was up along the highway, above ground on utility poles.
There was a telephone relay station about two miles west of us, and another about three miles east of us, and someone said that is the cable which connects the two relays stations together, but thought it was abandoned thirty years ago.

When my grandparents gave four lots for my dad and uncles to build on, the gravel road from the highway between the properties had an official street name, Cacky Lane. They had to do this in order to assign separate land deeds to each of the boys. We also had another drive that ran down the right 2/3 of our farm back to the barns and stables. But when grandpa gave the girls land and they built a subdivision, even though it had it's own entrance off Bopp Road, when an aunt went to build another house, and because almost everyone associated with our family used the gravel road to get from home to work, which of course got other people who lived in the subdivision to do the same, the city made us turn it into an official street, and it was then named Bansbach Road.

Cacky Lane remained a private road, so we had to maintain it. Bansbach Road was private for years, but I think when we sold the farm the city claimed it as a city road and/or made it a roadway easement as part of the sale of the farm.

Hard to keep up with what laws apply in each city or town nearly anywhere, because each one does something a little differently.

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