Is that all there is?

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yogi
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Is that all there is?

Post by yogi » 10 Nov 2017, 09:00

The eternal question of whether or not life continues after death has been answered by a physicist:
Sean Carroll wrote:Consciousness is a series of atoms and electrons which give us our mind, he says.

The laws of the universe do not allow these atoms and electrons to continue to operate after our bodies have died.
He goes on to say that the laws of physics are completely understood when it comes to everyday life. Carroll cites Quantum Field Theory which identifies every known particle in the universe. There is no particle associated with a so called human spirit.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/09/scientist ... e-7065838/

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Kellemora
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Re: Is that all there is?

Post by Kellemora » 10 Nov 2017, 15:19

Hmmm. I thought it was a known fact that around the moment of death, the bodies weight goes down by a specific figure, like 2 ounces or something along those lines.
At least that is what they claimed and that it is because our Spirit does have an atomic weight.

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yogi
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Re: Is that all there is?

Post by yogi » 11 Nov 2017, 08:11

I too have read the same claims about body weight dropping after death. It seems as if it was way less than an ounce, but it was something measurable. I didn't see anything wrong with that phenomena given that the lungs most likely collapse and all the air inside them evacuates.

There are people who claim on cosmological grounds that there is no heaven detectable in the universe. You would think with all those old souls that occupied human bodies they would have ended up somewhere observable and measurable.

The most palatable theory I've run across claims that there is no universe as we know it until there is an entity that observes it. Plus, each entity creates it's own universe. That's reminiscent of quantum theory's uncertainty principle where the state of a particle does not exist until it's observed. It's all possible states before that. So it is with the so called spirit, in my opinion. We exist in an uncertain and indeterminable state until such time self-awareness (soul, or spirit) develops. Then, and only then, do we become an identifiable part of the universe. Once the vessel dies, so goes the awareness and the individual universe.

It's complicated. :mrgreen:

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pilvikki
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Re: Is that all there is?

Post by pilvikki » 11 Nov 2017, 14:51

i think there simply are dimensions we are too primitive to grasp...

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Kellemora
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Re: Is that all there is?

Post by Kellemora » 11 Nov 2017, 14:53

You're right Yogi, it is complicated, hi hi...

Each of us have our own beliefs, even if we get them from the same books.
Everyone interprets what they read differently.

Personally, I don't believe the place we go called Heaven exists yet.
I think planet earth will become our Heaven when it is recreated as such.
So, where do our Spirits wait until that time? A place called Paradise!
I believe our Soul ceases to exist when we take our last breath.
Or it sleeps while we are in our grave.
It may be recoverable or not, that much I don't have a belief about.

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yogi
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Re: Is that all there is?

Post by yogi » 12 Nov 2017, 08:27

It boils down to where is that thing we call soul or spirit. Is it internal located only between our ears, or is it an external entity that occupies our space for a while? The article suggest that if it's external, there is no evidence for it's existence. In any case our perceptions and senses create it. My view is that when the sensory inputs and processing ceases, that so called spirit also ceases to exist. Or, it could revert to it's original form, sans a human body. Without a physical body to be aware of it, does it really exist? You know, it's the old tree falling in a forest question. Does it really make a sound if nobody is around to hear it?

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Kellemora
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Re: Is that all there is?

Post by Kellemora » 12 Nov 2017, 15:49

I have a wild theory, and it has made sense to a few folks I've shared it with.

We assume our brain can store information, not in the way a computer does, based on what lines cause our brain to assemble an image, or how we can juggle the letters of a word around and still have it perfectly readable.

But what if there is nothing stored in our head?

What if our brain was nothing more than a Transceiver?
Everything we see or think gets transmitted. Unimportant things are transmitted at low power, and important things at high power, and traumatic events at super high power.
The transmitted signal loses power each revolution around the earth, so if we don't recall a memory, and retransmit it, it could possibly be lost, unless something queues the receiver to listen harder for a weaker signal.

If our thoughts are our soul or spirit, and our brain works like a transceiver, they could be out there forever, just getting weaker.

Each person has a frequency all their own.
Such could also explain why twins, or mothers often know and feel what their sibling or child is doing.
It would also explain why some folks think they have ESP. Their frequency could be right next to someone else's frequency, and they have the ability to adjust their receive frequency up or down a small amount to pick up other neighboring peoples thoughts.

Some college tried an experiment once based on the above info, by using a lead lined building with several lead entrances one after the other. Since I don't have the college or their data on hand anymore, I can't prove what they did.
Basically, they had a person go through all the doors, read a short book and write a book report.
Then leave the main room to the next foyer on the way out, and write another book report.
By the time they got through all four doors, they couldn't write an accurate book report.
I always thought that was interesting. Considering at the time, they thought our thoughts stayed around our head like it was the nucleus of an atom.

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pilvikki
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Re: Is that all there is?

Post by pilvikki » 12 Nov 2017, 17:36

did i understand that right: you're thinking the thoughts are kinda like uploaded to a cloud?

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yogi
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Re: Is that all there is?

Post by yogi » 12 Nov 2017, 18:35

Your theory reminded me of an article about brain waves I read long long ago. Nobody knows how they are generated, but they certainly can be measured. It's these brain waves, in fact, that determine if we are dead or alive, according to current medical standards. A flat line means that life has left the body. I find it hard to understand how these particular waves would contain information that can be stored for future reference, but there might be a correlation as you speculate.

Computers have been modeled after what is known about the human brain. The study of such things falls into the body of knowledge known as cybernetics. Not everything is known about how memories are stored and retrieved, but there seems to be a consensus that it is all internal to the brain. In spite of me not being able to visualize how they could transmit information, it could be possible that an entanglement of brain waves between two or more people would explain things such as ESP, or being in the spirit of things, or soul mates.

Having said all that, the age old tradition is to break down the human experience into four constituent parts: mind, feelings, body, and spirit. While the other three components have scientific explanations, the spirit component remains more or less philosophical. My thinking of late is that this 'spirit' element is a form of yet to be understood matter. It is a manifestation of the greater whole, the universe. Once a portion of that spirit element is embodied into a human form, then the universe is suddenly realized. The spirit, being a universal element that gives our bodies life and self-awareness, ties us all together. Every individual human is part of the same source. The body is frail and dies, but the universe does not. It always has been and always will be.

Or something like that.

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Kellemora
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Re: Is that all there is?

Post by Kellemora » 13 Nov 2017, 13:32

If they ever do figure out how our brains store data, perhaps we will have better ways of storing information in less space, albeit it will be more prone to error when being access, just like our brains make a lot of errors.

I spent over an hour yesterday trying to find that test the college made, and never hit on anything close.
It was a very interesting test, and read, which is why I'm hunting for it.

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pilvikki
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Re: Is that all there is?

Post by pilvikki » 13 Nov 2017, 13:59

well, there definitely is something out there that needs an explanation! or else why would i have these annoying as hell dreams letting my know that someone is going to die? and furthermore, why not let me know who, so i'm not going crazy worrying about it? coincidences? not bloody likely, people are not dropping off in such quantities that it all could be dismissed as such.

the only one i got no prior notice for was - oddly enough - glenn. maybe because it was a given, i donno...

meanwhile, more to the point, my present day favourite author, mary doria russell does not think in images, but words. my super intelligent PITA first husband also thinks that way. and i cannot fathom that. if i cannot "see" what i'm looking for, i can't find it. i picture my keys on the counter and that's where they are, otherwise i can run all over the house and not find them. even when i'm looking directly at them....

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yogi
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Re: Is that all there is?

Post by yogi » 13 Nov 2017, 18:37

I once worked with an engineer who claimed he does not think like normal people. He thinks in terms of math. If he lost his keys, for example, he would find them by statistical analysis of all the possible places they could be.

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pilvikki
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Re: Is that all there is?

Post by pilvikki » 14 Nov 2017, 06:48

good grief, that sounds a lot more work than just scanning one's brain for the image....

but yes, mathematical thinkers are out there; probably a whole of fun.... :think:

i went looking for the article i read about the various thinking styles, but got caught by this incredible ignorant "scholar" explaing how verbal thinkers could not possible be as smart as visual thinkers! wow. just slightly tunnel-visioned.

so, i'm skipping looking for it for now and will have a shower instead.

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yogi
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Re: Is that all there is?

Post by yogi » 14 Nov 2017, 07:01

Way back when Kennedy was president and encouraged his staff to learn speed reading, I tried to learn it too. The basic idea is not to read words one at a time, nor even scan text one line at a time. The brain can process input from an entire page after just a brief glance. It sounded absurd, but I was able to do it after a while. A long while, but still. You just look at a page and recognize only a few words. After a few pages you can get the idea of what was written. With some practice you can absorb more words and more meaning. Here is the kicker. Aside from saving time, the speed readers consistently had better comprehension and retained more information than us slow pokes. This could be an example of verbal vs visual thinking, but it's hardly proof of intelligence.

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Kellemora
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Re: Is that all there is?

Post by Kellemora » 14 Nov 2017, 13:21

I think some folks just have a photographic memory. But how they remember so many details is beyond me.
If it's a book, they remember all the characters names and how they are related to the story.
I can't do that even if I read the same book ten times.

I don't know if this is the right term or not, but we had an autistic teen in our town, who made his living showing off.
There wasn't a math problem he didn't know the answer to within a few seconds after looking at it.
And another boy like him who could see an image one time and then paint the image to scale and not miss a detail.
Unfortunately, he didn't live past his early 20's.

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pilvikki
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Re: Is that all there is?

Post by pilvikki » 15 Nov 2017, 06:00

from being about 11, i remember an assembly at my school where some guy was telling us about autistic people (who weren't autistic at the time, of course, just mysteries). one girl could multiply any numbers in a second, while a boy could recite the bible verbatim. yeah, that's useful, but anyway, neither one could write their names.
so, why do i still remember that...?

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yogi
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Re: Is that all there is?

Post by yogi » 15 Nov 2017, 08:05

I am tempted to say you recall such things because they impressed you greatly at the time. Then again, I'm not sure memory recall has anything to do with the intensity of the event. I recall, for example, standing in the kitchen as a lad watching mom prepare dinner. I could not understand why she was peeling an onion. It seemed like such a waste to throw away the outer layers. I do not recall the answer she gave me, but I do recall the question.

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pilvikki
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Re: Is that all there is?

Post by pilvikki » 15 Nov 2017, 09:21

oh yes, the times my photographic memory runs out of film...

THAT drives me batty! "i just read that last week... it said that you need to... aaargh!" :shrug: :shrug: :sigh:

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Kellemora
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Re: Is that all there is?

Post by Kellemora » 15 Nov 2017, 13:59

I remember some things from when I was super young, but not many things, not even if something is out there to jog my memory about an event. I simply don't remember, even though, there I am in the picture to prove it, hi hi...

But the things I do remember, I honestly think is because I do remember them from time to time, which gives them a fresh lease on life. Or if my transmitter theory is correct, it retransmits the info again, so it is out there to pick back up again at a higher power level than if it were never recalled.

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pilvikki
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Re: Is that all there is?

Post by pilvikki » 15 Nov 2017, 16:07

one issue i have is trying to sort out what i actually remember and what i built up from being told something. if you tell me something, i'll visualize it and then that becomes my "memory". very annoying and confusing.

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