California And London
California And London
What do California and London have in common? What may come as a surprise, both places are thinking seriously about their own version of Brexit and becoming separate countries onto themselves. It seems that the election of Trump and the exit from Europe have been propelled by conservative minded populists. Fair enough, but neither California nor London have much in common with that trend. Their respective economies and needs vary greatly from their parent countries so that it might actually make sense for these places to go it alone. Yes, they are big enough to be able to afford it. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-sh ... nk=sfmw_tw
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Icy
Re: California And London
Don't read too much into that article Yogi. Five London boroughs voted to leave the EU, and there's no way that London on its own could ever be defined as a separate country. The City of London's known as the"square mile", and that's literally rounding off the area. Far too small, and all this talk about "populist" leaders's just a name which's been bandied about. Loads and loads of Brits don't understand UK politics at all, and come out with some rubbish. Even some of the sulking MPs still haven't grasped why and how Brexit happened.
We're now being governed by a PM who wasn't for Brexit, but who's promised to bow to the wishes of the people. However, because she's a conservative, some of her policies're obviously going to be in line with Tory plans. Conservative here, isn't like being conservative in America. Tbh, I don't care either way - in or out of Europe - but I think that opportunities're greater for us if we leave. It doesn't mean that we want to fall out with other countries and not support them when necessary, but it's obvious that both here and across the pond, many people wanted a change. Now we have the chance to do the best we can with that change. I hope it all works out for the best.
We're now being governed by a PM who wasn't for Brexit, but who's promised to bow to the wishes of the people. However, because she's a conservative, some of her policies're obviously going to be in line with Tory plans. Conservative here, isn't like being conservative in America. Tbh, I don't care either way - in or out of Europe - but I think that opportunities're greater for us if we leave. It doesn't mean that we want to fall out with other countries and not support them when necessary, but it's obvious that both here and across the pond, many people wanted a change. Now we have the chance to do the best we can with that change. I hope it all works out for the best.
Re: California And London
London as a separate country? how'd that affect the economy?
Re: California And London
London, as does California, has different needs and a different economy than does the host countries. That's why it makes sense to split up. Immigrants, for example, add productivity to the industrial economies; not so much in the rest of the countries.pilvikki wrote:someone suggested the Hillary states ought to join Canada. "what about Hawaii?" well, i'd be a bit of bother to haul it all the way up BC...
London as a separate country? how'd that affect the economy?
Re: California And London
I worked in southern Cal for a couple of years.
They really do need to give it back to Mexico!
Wouldn't bother most of us if it fell into the ocean.
They really do need to give it back to Mexico!
Wouldn't bother most of us if it fell into the ocean.
Re: California And London
meanwhile, with different laws etc, the states really are already a bit like separate countries?
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Icey
Re: California And London
Well we have different counties and boroughs, of course, but it'd be a virtual impossibility for London to become it's own country! It's too small, and if it happened, it wouldn't govern the rest of the UK. So after that, how do you divide the other counties into countries?? LOL! Take Rutland - 382 sq. km! Or better still - Scotland's Clackmannanshire, at 159 sq. km!!!! ROFL. The City of London's under 2.59 sq. km!!!! Vast country!!!
Re: California And London
I was referring to the various 50 states in America, but as for size, there's tiny ones here and there:
8 – Maldives - 300 km² ...
7 – Saint Kitts and Nevis - 261 km² ...
6 – Liechtenstein - 160 km² ...
5 – San Marino - 61 km² ...
4 – Tuvalu - 26 km² ...
3 – Nauru - 21 km² ...
2 – Monaco - 2 km² Image via: burgessyachts.com. ...
1 – Vatican - 0.44 km² Image via: sentiarometours.com.
Re: California And London
London can easily break away and become a country onto itself a la Hong Kong style. The rest of the UK would remain as is today. The idea would indeed be to separate from the rest of the country. Looking at it in another perspective, the Brexiters and Remainers would have the best of both worlds. London, could then apply for membership in the EU if it so chose to do so, and it would have a sovereign government of it's own. It's very possible. The only obstacle would be that the rest of the UK would have to agree to allow it to happen.
Same is true here in America with California and all the other states along the Pacific coast. It has indeed been proposed that those states unite and become part of Canada. The same general economics apply to our west coast as applies to London. California as a country would have it's own government separate and apart from our current federal system - read that to mean sans Donald Trump. Here too they would have to have agreement from 75% of all the other states for it to happen.
This concept is no different than what the UK is striving for in it's separation from the European Union. The land masses are different, but that's not what the break away is all about. None of the above is going to happen any time soon, if at all. But, it is all very possible.
Same is true here in America with California and all the other states along the Pacific coast. It has indeed been proposed that those states unite and become part of Canada. The same general economics apply to our west coast as applies to London. California as a country would have it's own government separate and apart from our current federal system - read that to mean sans Donald Trump. Here too they would have to have agreement from 75% of all the other states for it to happen.
This concept is no different than what the UK is striving for in it's separation from the European Union. The land masses are different, but that's not what the break away is all about. None of the above is going to happen any time soon, if at all. But, it is all very possible.
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Icey
Re: California And London
Well, whatever happens in the future's mainly conjecture.
I don't think that having London as a separate country'd work over here, but who knows?
To all the folk who seem to love Europe so much, why don't they go and live there then? They twinned our towns and roads with unpronounceable names and upset the residents. To all those who didn't mind being dictated to by Brussels, I'd like to suggest that they pack up and go and live there then. It's a mostly horrible place unless you're viewing it at night, but just living there for a week was enough. I witnessed open racism against British people, and this was way before the referendum. No, the moaners're quite happy to stay here, yet pocket wads of cash where they can.
I don't think that having London as a separate country'd work over here, but who knows?
To all the folk who seem to love Europe so much, why don't they go and live there then? They twinned our towns and roads with unpronounceable names and upset the residents. To all those who didn't mind being dictated to by Brussels, I'd like to suggest that they pack up and go and live there then. It's a mostly horrible place unless you're viewing it at night, but just living there for a week was enough. I witnessed open racism against British people, and this was way before the referendum. No, the moaners're quite happy to stay here, yet pocket wads of cash where they can.
Re: California And London
America is made up of 50 sovereign states. Like a country they are each legal entities with their own laws and governance and taxation. At one point in our history the independent states decided to join together and form a federal republic. Strength in unity, or something like that. Thus, each new state added after the original thirteen joined the federation. All that has been working well until recently.pilvikki wrote:meanwhile, with different laws etc, the states really are already a bit like separate countries?
Re: California And London
Any new state added to the union would be part of the federal republic, yes. Any that cede from the union are on their own.
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Icey
Re: California And London
No, sorry, I meant to put that differently. You said it's been working well until recently. I meant, what's going/gone wrong?
Re: California And London
People in America, and the UK, are apparently dissatisfied with being united. Today they are advocating breaking away instead of coming together.
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Icey
Re: California And London
It's not so much that folk in the UK're dissatisfied with being united, Yogi. That's too much of a general statement. We enjoy the friendship and trade deals with other like-minded countries. We've welcomed and helped people to settle here, to find work, to educate and give them free medical assistance, but sadly, quite a host of immigrants see us as a soft touch. Many've said they want to work, only to arrive and then never look for a job at all. State benefits must seem like a windfall to anyone arriving from a poverty-stricken place, and large families're put into magnificent properties (usually in London, where the rents're beyond average working people). On top of that, their houses're furnished, they pay no utility bills for at least a year and are allowed to reap the benefits of all the other things on offer. This riled many Brits, who work hard but struggle. The EU says we should accept more of these people in - lots more - and this is where things started to turn sour, and why immigration was one of the main reasons that some Brexiters voted the way that they did. It wasn't for racist reasons, as some of the media gleefully tried to make out. The other concern re. immigration was the threat to national security of course, so put the two together, and the whole thing seems like a very unwise move.
I don't know what the US's stance is on this, but then I'm sure that if I wanted to come and live over there, as quite a few of my relatives have done, the rules'd be much more stringent these days, and I can guarantee that I wouldn't be given a nice big furnished house, free medical and dental care, free hospital treatment, free from taxes - plus money going into my bank account for sitting around doing nothing? That's what these migrants're given, and many of them're from places outside of the EU, so no one can understand why they've been accepted. They only have to say that they've come to look for work, and with or without ID and papers, they're let in. This's the problem, and was encouraged by Mrs. Merkel (who's now back-tracked on her original plans).
We aren't the horrible little island that some'd make us out to be. People want to see if, by going it alone in a manner of speaking, we could do things on our own, without being bossed around by Belgium and without having to ask if it's alright to breathe. You wouldn't believe what we've had to put up with, Yogi. You couldn't sell cucumbers or bananas if they were too bent or too straight (how many rotted away?), we received astounding amounts of butter from the EU "butter mountain", which couldn't be generally bought but had to be given away through various charities. Of course, some of this was salted away by folk who weren't entitled to it, and yet, we have an excess of food which we aren't allowed to sell or give away to the homeless shelters and old peoples' homes, etc. Brussels dictated that we can't. : (
I have nothing but admiration for many foreigners who've settled here. If people intend to work, pay their dues and accept the British way of life - fine - and then if they fall on genuinely hard times, they deserve to be helped like anyone else, but those ones seem in the minority now.
Basically, I don't think that full integration's possible unless they follow the laws of our land, but that doesn't stop us all from having trade and business interests in common - with whoever wants it.
I don't know what the US's stance is on this, but then I'm sure that if I wanted to come and live over there, as quite a few of my relatives have done, the rules'd be much more stringent these days, and I can guarantee that I wouldn't be given a nice big furnished house, free medical and dental care, free hospital treatment, free from taxes - plus money going into my bank account for sitting around doing nothing? That's what these migrants're given, and many of them're from places outside of the EU, so no one can understand why they've been accepted. They only have to say that they've come to look for work, and with or without ID and papers, they're let in. This's the problem, and was encouraged by Mrs. Merkel (who's now back-tracked on her original plans).
We aren't the horrible little island that some'd make us out to be. People want to see if, by going it alone in a manner of speaking, we could do things on our own, without being bossed around by Belgium and without having to ask if it's alright to breathe. You wouldn't believe what we've had to put up with, Yogi. You couldn't sell cucumbers or bananas if they were too bent or too straight (how many rotted away?), we received astounding amounts of butter from the EU "butter mountain", which couldn't be generally bought but had to be given away through various charities. Of course, some of this was salted away by folk who weren't entitled to it, and yet, we have an excess of food which we aren't allowed to sell or give away to the homeless shelters and old peoples' homes, etc. Brussels dictated that we can't. : (
I have nothing but admiration for many foreigners who've settled here. If people intend to work, pay their dues and accept the British way of life - fine - and then if they fall on genuinely hard times, they deserve to be helped like anyone else, but those ones seem in the minority now.
Basically, I don't think that full integration's possible unless they follow the laws of our land, but that doesn't stop us all from having trade and business interests in common - with whoever wants it.
Re: California And London
Thank you for the in depth explanation about why folks in the UK are not dissatisfied with being united, as in being a member of the European Union. The movement to separate California (and whatever other adjoining states) from our union is based on similar reasoning.
Re: California And London
I think the big problem with our federal government here is it is grossly overstepping what it is allowed to do.
As our name says, we are The UNITED States of America, a Republic, NOT a Democracy.
The states united for a common cause, and established the federal government to maintain that unity, not create and enact laws.
The individual states have their own laws, and many of those laws are similar.
Part of the unification process is to make certain laws recognized in all states.
Take a drivers license for example: Each state sets their own laws on the requirements and tests to obtain a drivers license.
Where the federal government comes in, is simply making any states drivers license recognized as the right to drive in any state. Nevertheless, you must still follow the laws of the state you are driving in. Many roadway laws, marking, signs, etc. are unified across the nation. A red octagon with the letters STOP is nationally recognized as a Stop Sign, and the same holds true for many other signs.
However, the enforcement of a Stop Sign varies in many counties and states. In all states it means Stop. But how it is enforced has to do with other local laws. Was the stop sign placed legally by whatever means that state uses to make the erection of a stop sign legal. Normally this is done by an Ordinance. In some states, the Ordinance Number must also be on the Face of the Stop Sign. It is the Ordinance you must obey, not necessary a sign telling you to do something.
Many many years ago, drivers were expected to know the ordinances in their community and elsewhere if they wanted to drive there. The signs were placed as a courtesy to travelers. It wasn't until several years later when signs became an official posted notice of an ordinance, and eventually unified in all 50 states, and elsewhere, such as in our Territories.
One thing which is against our Constitution is for Judges to make Laws, and there has been plenty of that going on in the past several years.
Enough said before I get into an hour long dissertation here.
As our name says, we are The UNITED States of America, a Republic, NOT a Democracy.
The states united for a common cause, and established the federal government to maintain that unity, not create and enact laws.
The individual states have their own laws, and many of those laws are similar.
Part of the unification process is to make certain laws recognized in all states.
Take a drivers license for example: Each state sets their own laws on the requirements and tests to obtain a drivers license.
Where the federal government comes in, is simply making any states drivers license recognized as the right to drive in any state. Nevertheless, you must still follow the laws of the state you are driving in. Many roadway laws, marking, signs, etc. are unified across the nation. A red octagon with the letters STOP is nationally recognized as a Stop Sign, and the same holds true for many other signs.
However, the enforcement of a Stop Sign varies in many counties and states. In all states it means Stop. But how it is enforced has to do with other local laws. Was the stop sign placed legally by whatever means that state uses to make the erection of a stop sign legal. Normally this is done by an Ordinance. In some states, the Ordinance Number must also be on the Face of the Stop Sign. It is the Ordinance you must obey, not necessary a sign telling you to do something.
Many many years ago, drivers were expected to know the ordinances in their community and elsewhere if they wanted to drive there. The signs were placed as a courtesy to travelers. It wasn't until several years later when signs became an official posted notice of an ordinance, and eventually unified in all 50 states, and elsewhere, such as in our Territories.
One thing which is against our Constitution is for Judges to make Laws, and there has been plenty of that going on in the past several years.
Enough said before I get into an hour long dissertation here.
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Icey
Re: California And London
I think we all moan about something, Gary. What suits one, won't suit another, and so we have this merry-go-round of picking fault with party politics and the implementation of such!
The current threat level for international terrorism in the UK is SEVERE. Everyone on this small island's been told to stay alert, and I think that with so little space, and so many people crowded together, suspicion grows rapidly. This isn't doing anyone any good, but I can quite understand general feelings on immigration. I wish we could all live together peacefully, but once distrust's sown, it's difficult to get rid of that feeling, especially when foreigners're allowed to demonstrate on our streets and to hand out radical literature. If WE did that, we'd soon be in court. : (
The current threat level for international terrorism in the UK is SEVERE. Everyone on this small island's been told to stay alert, and I think that with so little space, and so many people crowded together, suspicion grows rapidly. This isn't doing anyone any good, but I can quite understand general feelings on immigration. I wish we could all live together peacefully, but once distrust's sown, it's difficult to get rid of that feeling, especially when foreigners're allowed to demonstrate on our streets and to hand out radical literature. If WE did that, we'd soon be in court. : (
Re: California And London
Sometimes we just have to swallow our pride and do something that goes against every grain of our soul.
I served in Nam, where our allies were just as much our enemy as those we were fighting.
Fast forward nine years, and I'm approached to take a Vietnamese family into my home for a year.
The person making the request is one you cannot possibly say no to, because they have already done so much for you.
I'm just thankful the house I was living in at the time could be divided into separate quarters easily enough.
They year turned out to be over two years, before they finally got their own place and moved out.
Then the same person called on me again to do him another favor, this one was simple, but still meant keeping my house divided. They only needed two rooms, for an office and copy room. So I did get the upstairs back for my own use.
This second tenant only spent the day there, arrived a few minutes before 8 am and left right after 4:30 pm.
The only noise he made was when he was running the copy machines, and that was on Wednesday afternoon for a short time, and most of the day on Friday's he had both of them running. His routine never varied in the three years he stayed.
I served in Nam, where our allies were just as much our enemy as those we were fighting.
Fast forward nine years, and I'm approached to take a Vietnamese family into my home for a year.
The person making the request is one you cannot possibly say no to, because they have already done so much for you.
I'm just thankful the house I was living in at the time could be divided into separate quarters easily enough.
They year turned out to be over two years, before they finally got their own place and moved out.
Then the same person called on me again to do him another favor, this one was simple, but still meant keeping my house divided. They only needed two rooms, for an office and copy room. So I did get the upstairs back for my own use.
This second tenant only spent the day there, arrived a few minutes before 8 am and left right after 4:30 pm.
The only noise he made was when he was running the copy machines, and that was on Wednesday afternoon for a short time, and most of the day on Friday's he had both of them running. His routine never varied in the three years he stayed.