Cognitive Dissonance

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yogi
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Cognitive Dissonance

Post by yogi » 10 Jul 2016, 08:34

The manifestation of cognitive dissonance was revealed to me many years ago when I became a member of my first discussion forum type web site. Such venues have evolved and proliferated over the years and have become more sophisticated than anyone could have imagined a dozen years ago. But, one thing about those websites has been consistent and pervasive all this time, i.e., the phenomena of cognitive dissonance. This behavior is most recognizable as arguments and rants wherein no matter how much proof is shown to the contrary, nobody changes their mind. In fact the opposite takes place. As the opposition to one's point of view increases, the deeper one entrenches themselves into their preconceived notions.

The linked article reveals how the recently released Chilcot Report has evoked the cognitive dissonance of many. I'm not that familiar with the specifics of Chilcot, but I have been discussing Brexit extensively with a few Brits I know. Cognitive Dissonance is what determined the outcome. I'm totally convinced. Be that all as it may, my primary attention is given to this forum and others like it. I must laugh to myself at times when I read the responses to the obvious. Perhaps knowing about the phenomena will open a few minds, but most likely not. In any case it's a very interesting read:

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36744911

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Kellemora
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Kellemora » 10 Jul 2016, 09:47

Great article Yogi, and so true!

I witnessed it first hand each time I served jury duty.
Also, how prosecutors and defendants attorneys purposely word things to give the opposite impressions.
They only think they are fooling the jurors, when once we get in the deliberation room, we have a good laugh over their idiocies before getting down to our more serious endeavors.

As an aside: If we see or know of suppressed evidence, the very fact we were not given all the facts, causes most of us to side with the defendant, even if such evidence may be detrimental to the defendant or a benefit to prosecution.
Why side on the opposite side, when we are certain what was suppressed would look unfavorable to the defendant?
For the simple fact the case was Manipulated by the attorneys and the court system.
We would rather see a guilty person go free, than an innocent man put in prison, because of suppressed evidence on either side.

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Icey
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Icey » 10 Jul 2016, 15:12

That's the first time I'd heard of "cognitive dissonance". Until I read the link, I didn't know what it meant, but there seems to be a ring of truth to it.

The Chilcot Inquiry is a public one, named after the Chairman, Sir John Chilcot. It was to examine the roles that Bush and Blair played in the war in Iraq. Blair stands by his decision that it was right to go into Iraq and get Saddam Hussein, but now says that the information he received from intelligence forces, re WMD, was sadly incorrect. This's causing an outcry over here, especially from people who lost loved ones in the process, and which also killed thousands of Iraqis, but Blair remains adamant that he was always going to stand by our allies, even though the timing was wrong.

I believe at the time, that all sorts of ideas were floating around, as to how easy it'd be to hide these weapons in such sandy, arid or mountainous areas, and that although nothing was found, some believe that they're still there, carefully buried and concealed. No matter that Blair says he regrets the losses of life, he does, as an example, still stick by his initial decisions. Cognitive dissonance may be displayed here, but he's being extremely careful in how he expresses himself. More than a few people want him tried for war crimes.

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yogi
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by yogi » 14 Oct 2016, 15:10

Is it possible that supporters of Donald Trump are suffering from Cognitive Dissonance? :grin:

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pilvikki
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by pilvikki » 14 Oct 2016, 15:32

the trumpeters... :rolleyes:

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yogi
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by yogi » 14 Oct 2016, 15:54

He is campaigning in North Carolina today and I'm surprised at how many people attend the rallies and STILL support him.

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Icey
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Icey » 14 Oct 2016, 18:10

Yes, and there was a video link on a news site here today which I found disturbing. It featured a group of American female Trump supporters. I definitely think that they suffer from cognitive dissonance to hear how they were praising him, despite acknowledging his unpleasant comments about women and his "groping sessions". This doesn't seem to matter a jot.

The problem as I see it, is that some of his other comments seem to have a ring of truth to them, and by being loud and forthright, he's spoken about subjects which others feared to tackle. This's been made worse by writers such as Peter Stearns, author of American Fear. Since late last year, polls've been suggesting more and more anxiety's being displayed by US citizens, with one woman in Tampa saying that she was frightened to look over her shoulder these days. Trump seems pretty adept at stoking those fears, and puts it in a straight-talking manner to make his intended agenda sound beneficial to those who'll support him.

There's no disputing that he's hit a few nerves, and that he's right in wanting to do whatever it takes to reduce the threat of terrorism, even if his plans seem outrageous, but at the same time, should he get into power, everyone hopes that he wouldn't mis-use it. By actually saying the very things which others don't even want to think about, it puts more fear into people, because they wonder if he might be right.

No one knows what the outcome's going to be, but this run for Presidency's stirred up more worldwide interest than any before it.

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yogi
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by yogi » 15 Oct 2016, 07:51

I've been disturbed by the females who support Trump, but not surprised. I was born at the end of WW II and raised in a Christian family environment. Admittedly I have changed drastically from all that, but my sense of morals and ethics has its roots in the old school. When I look around me today it quickly becomes obvious that my "old school" thinking is anachronistic. Perhaps I've been deluded all these years, but the number of females who anticipate and accept being abused is breath taking. Sexual norms, and even gender identity, have taken a stunning turn in their development. Using Trump's own term, just look up "pussy" on your favorite search engine and see what you get. I'm not at all shocked by the porn stars who are paid for their performance. The stunning revelation is how many obviously amateur females are presenting all of themselves for the entire world to admire. It's way too pervasive to be explained by a passing fad. Attitudes and behaviors have evolved into something incomprehensible back in my early days. Many more females than I ever suspected are attracted to the concept of sexual abuse, being debased, and attacks against their femininity. It's this large change in thinking that allows for the huge support Trump receives from females. Many of them actually consent and agree with what he has done.

It remains to be seen if Trump supporters will turn out in greater numbers than the more sane among us. I've noted it elsewhere in these forums and will bring it up again. Nobody expected the Brexit outcome to be what it was, and that same kind of mentality is haunting this presidential election. My sincere hope is that reason will prevail over emotion in the upcoming election; something that didn't happen in the exit referendum.

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Kellemora
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Kellemora » 15 Oct 2016, 11:47

My grandmother used to lean over her porch rail every night and yell, "Here pussy, pussy, pussy!" several times.
She would keep that up until her crazy cat showed up to come in the house before she locked up for the night.

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Icey
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Icey » 16 Oct 2016, 16:32

LOL - well rather than say "kitty", some of our youngsters still say "pussycats" when referring to the animals.

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pilvikki
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by pilvikki » 18 Oct 2016, 13:02

I call those women 'trumpeters'. they're all noise and nothing else. no brains, 0 self-respect or logic. in fact, looking at them all with his smug face in the middle of them, makes me physically ill.

also brings to mind an old quote: "divide and rule."

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Icey
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Icey » 18 Oct 2016, 14:23

It's difficult to say which way this'll go. Of course, the denials're coming out now; Trump never said, Trump never did ..... but if you look beyond the disgraceful behaviour, has the man got any sound policies which could help the country? Both him and Clinton seem to've done things which show both of them in a somewhat bad light. The problem is .... he who casts the first stone, and all that. If these two are the only possible contenders in the Presidential race, then one of them's going to win, and I think there're certain "types" of women who're going to be voting for their favourite person. Whatever the outcome, I think it's not only going to be an interesting one, but hopefully one which benefits the majority.

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Kellemora
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Kellemora » 19 Oct 2016, 13:11

Trump better get in or it's the end of America. Obama's already trying to start WW3 with Russia, so he can become Dictator.
I hope he fails and Trump gets in and cleans all the crooks out of DC.

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yogi
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by yogi » 20 Oct 2016, 06:46

I think the conservative and Republican agendas have been blown to smithereens by Mr Trump. Their next best hope is in 2020 - maybe Palin will make a run for it. :mrgreen:

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pilvikki
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by pilvikki » 20 Oct 2016, 07:47

I am rather hoping you're joking, gary...

:eek:

I've no idea if Obama is any good as a president, but at least he's not a stark raving mad lunatic.

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Kellemora
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Kellemora » 20 Oct 2016, 13:57

The frau and I had to take two of our pooches to the vet for their annual shots and checkup.
On the way home we stopped and voted.
I wanted to get my head mowed while we were out, but it got too hot here to stop with the pooches in the car, even if the frau stayed in it and kept the AC running. AC's don't work well when you are not moving.
In any case, we thought it best to vote early before any more disruptions start.

It really is hard to believe a Criminal with so many Felonies pending can even run for president. Sad, very sad!

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yogi
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by yogi » 20 Oct 2016, 16:56

And the conservative Republicans' choice to run against that so called criminal is better??? :lol:
There is some serious dissonance going on here, trust me.

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Kellemora
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Kellemora » 21 Oct 2016, 10:20

Well Yogi, I look at it this way. This is the first time in my life I get to vote for a human being who is not a Poly-Tick-ian, at least until he is elected.
Seems all the Republicans who've been elected recently become Democrats the moment they are elected.
I also don't see how anyone could be worse than Hilary or Obama.
If he does all the things he has promised, and his track record shows he usually does, I see only good things.
Of course, it's not January yet and Obama can do a lot of damage between now and then.

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pilvikki
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by pilvikki » 21 Oct 2016, 11:54

It really is hard to believe a Criminal with so many Felonies pending can even run for president. Sad, very sad!
you talking Donald, are you?

Donald is a proven liar and by proven I mean by his on words, not something his detractors cooked up.

he's going to do what he says? ok, let's take a look at that, shall we...

build a wall to keep the mexican rapists out; shoot Hilary; continue to assault women (because he can do whatever he wants because he's a, you know, a star.); and then...

oh n/m I can't even...

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Icey
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Icey » 21 Oct 2016, 15:58

From my perspective, the only decent thing I've heard Trump talk about, is being friendly with Putin. I know that's a gasp-horror idea to many Americans, because there's been this power struggle between the two countries for so many years, but considering the world-wide infiltration of middle eastern terrorist organisations, I think that two great heads may be better than one when it comes to trying to protect the "civilised" world. Aside from that, I was reading quite recently about the FTI (Foreign Trade Investment) between the 2 super-powers. Although the US figures weren't available, the Russian ones were, and in 2012, both countries seemed to be benefiting from trade between each other. I understand there were a few problems, but over all, things were starting to go nicely. I'm sure that the two could reach deals which both'd find acceptable, and it seems as though Mr. Obama was going in the right direction with regard to a partnership with the Russians over the Syrian crisis as well.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07 ... ist-group/

However, it now appears that Mr. Obama sees no immediate relief from the civil war over there, and it'll be up to his predecessor to do what they think's best. I think Trump'd like to see a very swift end to it all, and rallying with the Russians may be a good thing, without actually putting boots on the ground, which Mrs. Clinton'd like to do.

Actually, the problems're phenomenal. I wouldn't like to be in the position of making sweeping statements and decisions about ANY of these important issues. I can only reiterate that I hope whoever becomes the next President, and it seems to be going in Mrs. Clinton's favour, that they work for the people, who'll then pull together for the country, but an awful lot of work lies ahead, for whoever gets in.

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