The Math of Pizza Eating

Topics of substance for matters not categorized elsewhere.
Forum rules
Treat all the members of this web site with dignity and respect.
Keep posts' content in the context of a young adult viewable site.
Refrain from using excessive profanity.
Refrain from Post Whoring.
Respect the privacy of our forum participants.
Adhere to all applicable copyright laws.
Adhere to the rules of forum etiquette
User avatar
yogi
Posts: 4325
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 15:49

The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by yogi » 19 Jun 2016, 06:32

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi-TBlh44gY

Yes Icy ... I think you will enjoy this. :mrgreen:

User avatar
pilvikki
Posts: 4430
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 15:35

Re: The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by pilvikki » 19 Jun 2016, 07:29

he used a sharpie to draw on food..... :yikes:

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 4325
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 15:49

Re: The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by yogi » 19 Jun 2016, 08:48

True ... but he didn't eat it

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 1926
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 11:54

Re: The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by Kellemora » 19 Jun 2016, 13:17

I wonder how many folks realize how easy it is for a pizza shop to rip them off big time?

The formula, pi r squared, will let you know.

Let's say you order a 14 inch pizza.
You are paying for 154 sq in of pizza.
But what if they only cover 12 inches of the surface area?
You only get 113 sq in of pizza.
This is approximately 1/3 less pizza than you have paid for!

If product cost and overhead to make a pizza is 2 bucks for each 50 sq in of pizza.
It costs approx 6 bucks to make a 14 inch pizza.
But if they cover 1/3 less area, their cost drops down to 4 bucks, but they charged you for what they did not give you.

What about toppings?
I used to hold the franchise for a Cibo Pizza Parlor, and we had two methods of adding toppings.
Fixed price pizza, includes toppings (FWIW this is not the better deal).
Additional Price for each topping (Better consumer value for the buck!).

On a fixed price pizza, additional topping portions are divided, fairly.
On additional price toppings, you get the full weight of each topping.

As an aside, in real life, each topping has its portion size based on cost to weight.
But for this example, lets just say each topping weighs one ounce.

On a fixed price pizza, if you order four additional toppings, you only get 1/4 ounce of each topping.
If you order two toppings, you get 1/2 ounce of each topping.
This is why fixed price pizza's look a little on the sparse side.

On additional price toppings, if you add too many toppings, you can end up with an overloaded, heavy pizza real fast.

A fixed price pizza includes the cost of a single additional topping, plus about 10% for added labor costs.
Additional price toppings, do not have added labor costs, plus we normally use more sauce and cheese, since we make up the difference in the cost of the toppings. But the main thing is, you get more weight overall, a larger meal, for only a buck or two more. A customer normally eats half as many slices of an additional price topping pizza, over a fixed price pizza, so a pizza feeds more people. Depends on the people eating too, hi hi...

User avatar
Icey
Posts: 10161
Joined: 18 Feb 2015, 18:13

Re: The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by Icey » 19 Jun 2016, 15:00

Oh ..... my ....... :eek:

If any of you've watched that hilarious and cleverly-written US comedy programme, The Big Bang Theory - this post of Yogi's turned me into the character of Penny!! I found it absolutely impossible to understand Gary's explanation of things, and the vid wasn't much more helpful.

I watched it, with tears running down my cheeks, bent double with laughter at the description of curvature - i.e. on the banana - as if I was going to understand it. :lol:

Thank you very much for your wondrous explanations of being ripped off, Gary. I'll take your word for it that you're right, and thank you Yogi. You know exactly what I'm useless at.

I can't believe that I passed physics in my final school exam, but I honestly did. That was a feat in itself - no, no, I'd go so far as to class it as a miracle - but this was by far the most amusing post I've read in ages. Tyvm guys! :lol:

User avatar
Icey
Posts: 10161
Joined: 18 Feb 2015, 18:13

Re: The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by Icey » 20 Jun 2016, 04:53

Oh dear me!!! :sad:

Euler's formula .........

Image

:worry:

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 4325
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 15:49

Re: The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by yogi » 20 Jun 2016, 06:14

The point of Euler's Formula is that a pizza slice with a curve along it's long dimension calculates to be flat. That's due to having a single curvature instead of multiple ones like a banana, bagel, or an orange. As your graphic planely (pun intended) shows, it takes some higher math to put it in precise scientific terms.

Gary's experience with pizza, on the other hand, has more to do with simple arithmetic. Marketing, economics, and customer psychology all have a role to play in selling pizza. How much pizza topping do you expect on your pizza crust, for example? There is no question regarding Euler's version of pizza being flat, but whether you are getting a bargain or not at Gary's pizza shop is all subjective.

User avatar
Icey
Posts: 10161
Joined: 18 Feb 2015, 18:13

Re: The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by Icey » 20 Jun 2016, 12:36

Well thank you. I've just grinned broadly at the Euler's diagram again. I can't .... I can't understand it, period. If I'd been shown this in a maths lesson, I'd have felt very poorly all of a sudden!

As for getting a bargain at Gary's - or any other pizza outlet - I simply don't know. We make our own at home, loaded with our favourite toppings, but I couldn't possibly work out how much each one cost, or if it was good value for money. On the occasions we've had bought ones, we go for those that're made up of the basic cheese and tomato toppings, and then for a set price, you can add 3 toppings of your choice, be it spicy chicken, pepperoni, or various vegetables, olives etc. Any more than 3 extra toppings, and that obviously incurs a higher price. These pizzas aren't any more than 10" ones, but they're deep pan, which I prefer, and I really couldn't eat any pizza that was crammed with about 8 different additions, but that's just personal choice. If I had to work out which was the best value for money ..... pass! : )

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 1926
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 11:54

Re: The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by Kellemora » 20 Jun 2016, 14:59

I can make it a whole lot simpler Icey, regarding pizza that is.

If you paid for a 16 ounce cold drink, and they gave you a 12 ounce cold drink instead, you could easily see you were ripped off, especially if you paid for a 16 ounce cold drink.

FWIW: We used hollow core cubed ice in all of our drinks back when I owned the pizza shop. Why? Because the customer gets a lot more soda that way.
A 16 ounce cup filled 2/3 with hollow cubed ice holds about 14 ounces of soda. Solid cubed only about 12 ounces.
While a 16 ounce cup filled to 2/3 with crushed ice only holds about 8 to 10 ounces of soda.

A 10 inch dinner plate is obviously smaller than a 12 inch dinner plate.
Although both could hold the same weight of stuff piled up. Liquids, like the sauce would run off the 10 inch dinner plate if you used the amount you should for a 12 inch dinner plate, aka pizza.

User avatar
Icey
Posts: 10161
Joined: 18 Feb 2015, 18:13

Re: The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by Icey » 20 Jun 2016, 18:03

Good evening Gary.

Yes ..... I see what you mean with regard to the ice cubes in drinks. I prefer mine without any ice though - but fair dues to you for giving folk more for their money, because most places's do the opposite and fill a glass with ice, rendering your glass only half full of the acual drink!

Bought pizzas're peculiar things. The tomato sauce base never comes up to the edges of the bread, and yet if it did, it'd spill over during the cooking process, as it expanded with the heat. I don't know how much pizzas cost over there, as I've never eaten one in the US, but what IS a rip off, are the home delivery prices as opposed to freshly-made ones sold in shops. Frozen ones're probably the cheapest, but I don't buy them. For just under $6, I can buy a said fresh pizza with choice of toppings. The boys'll cut that in half and have 3-4 pieces each with salad, as an instance. If we sent out for the same sort of pizza, but just a couple of inches bigger, a thin-crust'd cost you $20. 55 minimum.

User avatar
yogi
Posts: 4325
Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 15:49

Re: The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by yogi » 21 Jun 2016, 08:42

It's difficult for me to see how pizza buyers can feel they have been ripped off. When you buy a 12" pizza there are no standards or specifications regarding how it must be made. It's true that various pizza makers will put more or less onto the crust, but some people want less. You are not paying for the size, but for the content. Traditional Italian pizza, for example, has barely any sauce and the crust isn't even round. Are all those saucy round pizzas rip offs because they are not true to tradition? The answer is that it's all relative judgement on the part of the buyer. If a vendor isn't making what the buyer wants, there are many other shops to choose from. Pizza shops come and pizza shops go, all of which is testimony to the consumer's power to control the market.

And ... that's the beauty of math. It's precise, definitive, and not relative. So, if you curl your pizza slice so that it doesn't drip down into your lap, the truth is that it is flat and not curved. Looks can be deceiving (according to Euler). :mrgreen:

Then again, some folks take their pizza way TOO seriously: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... her-pizza/

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 1926
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 11:54

Re: The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by Kellemora » 21 Jun 2016, 11:15

When you have a franchise store, we are told exactly how much we are allowed to put on a pizza, and they watch this like a hawk. Pizza sales had better match inventory or they call you on it real fast.
However, in my case, only half of my restaurant was under the franchise, so I got by with a lot more than other owners.
Some of the changes the franchise made were not for the better. I sold out before they got any worse, and swore I would never get involved in any franchise business ever again.

We had a good business because we did things other pizza shops and deli's never do.
All meats were peeled, so you never had to worry about ending up with a mouth full of rubber bands, something for which Subway does not do, and why I will never eat meats from a Subway. About the only thing I get there is bread pretzels when shopping.
A normal human would remove the packing house rind from a piece of meat before making a sandwich.
Most restaurants, deli's, and other food purveyors do not, they leave it on the meat and consider it edible casings.
Unless it is a secondary plastic coating they may remove, like you find on some bologna products.
We also did not use the coarser lettuce stems in salads, and people do notice when you take extra care with their meals!

User avatar
Icey
Posts: 10161
Joined: 18 Feb 2015, 18:13

Re: The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by Icey » 21 Jun 2016, 11:36

LOOOOL @ Yogi's link!! Oh dear.

Gary, what do you mean by "all meats're peeled"?

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 1926
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 11:54

Re: The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by Kellemora » 22 Jun 2016, 11:28

Many meats have what is considered an edible casing. Such as hot dogs, sausages, etc.

Some meats, although the casing is considered edible, if you served these types of meats at home, you would remove the packing house rind before cooking. Mainly because the rind turns hard during cooking.

As an example: Some Hams have a spray on flavor coating, which is considered edible. Unfortunately, over this sprayed on flavor coating, they place a packing house sealant, which, unless you have excellent teeth to pulverize, will leave your mouth filled with what feels like rubber bands.

Let's take something commonplace, such as Bologna.
Some bologna comes with a bright reddish orange plastic coating. Some just have an outer packing house sealant layer and no plastic over-wrap.
I realize many people buy bologna and eat it with the outer sealant layer left on. It won't hurt you, but who handled it?
If you fry bologna, this outer packing house sealant turns even harder. Some people still eat it though.

When I make a bologna sandwich, I remove this outer packing house sealant layer. It usually peels off just about as easily as the red plastic wrapper left on when sliced.

Now, looking at the two ways bologna is protected with a packing house layer.
I'm positive you would not make a bologna sandwich and leave the red plastic packing house layer on the bologna.
If not, why would you leave leave the supposedly edible packing house layer on your meat?

I might ask, when you've eaten pizza's or deli sandwiches, how often have you had to pull a piece of packaging layer out of your mouth? Or did you bite the bullet and just swallow it anyhow?

To me, anyone leaving the packing house rind on a slice of meat, is no different than leaving the red plastic layer on a slice of bologna. This is why we removed the packing house layer from ALL of our meats, and why I normally will not eat most of the sandwich meats served by a deli.

How many people handled or touched the edges of the meat you are eating between the slaughterhouse, baker, delivery trucks, inventory stock boys, butchers who take a tube of meat out of the cooler, slice off a pound or two and put it back for the next customer who wants a pound or two. They may wear gloves, but did they handle a chicken product with those same gloves, did they touch the handles on the meat cases, did they push their glasses back up on their nose, or adjust their cap?

I don't know how the meat was handled on it's long journey to the store, or how it was handled at the store.
I remove the packing house rind from everything I eat, and did likewise on all the meats we served our customers.
Especially ham, Canadian bacon, pepperoni, etc. If it had a packing house casing of any kind, it was removed before it went on a pizza. I was most strict about this being done, and I'm sure my customers appreciated not ending up with a mouth full of dirty rubber bands.

User avatar
Icey
Posts: 10161
Joined: 18 Feb 2015, 18:13

Re: The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by Icey » 22 Jun 2016, 11:56

Ugh! You're quite right Gary. Fortunately, it's very rare that I buy anything like hot dog sausages and so on. I'd never dream of eating the "plasticised" protective covering on Polish sausage, for example, and you're right about the possible transfer of germs. Thanks for explaining.

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 1926
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 11:54

Re: The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by Kellemora » 23 Jun 2016, 11:39

I know I spoiled a lot of customers, who after eating at our place, became even more picky about what they ate thereafter.
Many never thought about what they ate, they ate how things were served to them, and thought all meats were served that way.
I do have to admit we had a machine which removed 1/32 from the outside of meats for us, and many types of meat we passed through the machine a second or possibly a third time, depending on what it was.
It sorta worked like an apple peeling machine, except it was all done internally.
Although not designed to do things other than meat, I would run things like cantaloupe through it several passes to remove all the rind and some of the hard flesh next to the rind. It usually took around 8 to 10 passes to do a cantaloupe.
Sorta wish I still had that machine for my own use, as I remove the rind from everything I eat, except tomatoes, hi hi...

User avatar
Icey
Posts: 10161
Joined: 18 Feb 2015, 18:13

Re: The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by Icey » 23 Jun 2016, 12:23

Fantastic! I never knew that such machines existed. I imagine one could come in very handy for removing outer layers on stuff.

Just going off at a tangent, although in keeping with your mention of melons - has anyone tried a Pepino melon? I'd never seen one before, and bought one today. I thought it was somewhat expensive for a fruit that's no bigger than a mango. In fact, some of those're bigger than these pepinos. A single one cost me £2, which's almost $3 or 2. 61 euros. I haven't cut into it yet, assuming that you spoon it out, as you might do with other types of melons?

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 1926
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 11:54

Re: The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by Kellemora » 24 Jun 2016, 12:14

My cousin used to send me an assortment of all kinds of melons once a year.
I never knew the names of most of them, but almost all of them were excellent.
I like ALL the orange and yellow meat varieties, but I'm not to hip to the green meat varieties. Some are OK, but others, whew, either bitter or leave a sting.
We've also had melons where the insides were clearish, translucent, like a grapes insides, but they tasted great.

One other machine we had was a high speed potato peeling machine. It produced more waste than we liked, but you had to weigh the money we saved by using it too. It could handle over fifty pounds of potatoes in about a minute and a half or less.
In another restaurant we had a potato scrubber to clean potatoes before baking. It worked almost like a bowling ball cleaning machine. Not fast but did an excellent job.

It's almost impossible to find some of the equipment we had back then. Seems many of them have gone by the wayside, due to restaurant buying almost everything pre-prepared.

User avatar
Icey
Posts: 10161
Joined: 18 Feb 2015, 18:13

Re: The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by Icey » 24 Jun 2016, 17:38

You can still get potato peeling machines Gary (for domestic use, I mean), but I don't know anyone who personally has one. Peeling potatoes's quite a quick and easy job anyway, but the machines're handy in business - such as over here in fish and chip shops.

User avatar
Kellemora
Posts: 1926
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 11:54

Re: The Math of Pizza Eating

Post by Kellemora » 25 Jun 2016, 09:15

I had kept a couple of sandwich steamers after I sold the restaurant.
They lasted a good 20 years before I could not get parts for them anymore.

One thing I notice about deli's down south here, is they are not under the same rules as we were up north.
Take a simple toaster for example.
Back home, we HAD to buy a 600 dollar toaster, approved for restaurant use, and with all the inspection ports.
Down here, they can pick a toaster up at Wally World for under 20 bucks, if it has a bread crumb plate on the bottom.

Same way with other equipment used in a restaurant. We were forbidden to use anything not rated for restaurant use, which made everything super expensive. I did get buy with a couple of mid-size refrigerators, because they had the external thermometer installed by the factory on them, for the inspector to glance at on each visit.

Post Reply