I'm one of those who HATE there being any FAT in the meats I eat. I have to cut away nearly 2/3 of something marked Prime in order to eat it. I like Choice or Select better than Prime, and will often refer to Prime meat as SUET, hi hi.
Contrary to what I said above, I LOVE GRAVY, which is the FAT that dripped out while cooking.
To me, it's the Gravy that makes the meal, not eating it while still Suet in the meat, hi hi.
Oh, there are people who eat hog jowls, tongue, pigs feet, and other innards from an animal.
I think what kills me is one of the major Waste Products of Chicken has now become something everyone sells and folks rave over, the Wings. Crazy. Now the lower part of the wing is kept and called Little Drummies, which are usually good.
I guess some places sell whole wings which include the drummies.
I used to love legs, thighs, and breasts, but lately it seems the quality of chicken meat has gone way downhill. So I normally only get breasts now, and sometimes they are not very good any more.
Vertical Clouds
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Re: Vertical Clouds
I have a suspicion that what you know as Drummies is called Buffalo Wings around here. That's what they were called around Chicago too. I can say that Drummies are tolerable, but there is very little edible meat and an abundance of bone and skin. Some restaurants realize how terrible that wing tip is and will mix in or substitute the joint just below the wing tip. More meet in that portion but still way too much chicken skin for my taste.
Mom would buy shank portions of ham for certain holiday meals. That shank still had skin on it which she trimmed off before baking the rest of the leg. She didn't toss the skin but instead fried it. That fried pig skin was pretty good as I recall but I doubt that any of it gets digested. It just coats your arteries with cholesterol directly.
I know of what you speak regarding certain prime cuts of beef. Prime rib has a ton of waste attached to it. I'm not so sure about the proper way to eat that stuff, but I would guess that the bone and fat (suet ?) was never intended to be eaten. The eye of the prime rib is about the most tender you will find on a cow and I believe all that fat acts the same way as the gravy drippings you favor. Cooking the meat in the rendered fat adds something to the flavor, but as I mentioned above many of those cuts are best prepared and eaten rare. Filet Mignon is the extension of that eye of the rib, or in other words the tenderloin. The end part is pretty much fat free and the Mignon sometimes is prepared with a wrapping of bacon to provide the fat and additional flavor. Seems like a contradiction to wrap such a great portion of beef in pig fat.
Mom would buy shank portions of ham for certain holiday meals. That shank still had skin on it which she trimmed off before baking the rest of the leg. She didn't toss the skin but instead fried it. That fried pig skin was pretty good as I recall but I doubt that any of it gets digested. It just coats your arteries with cholesterol directly.
I know of what you speak regarding certain prime cuts of beef. Prime rib has a ton of waste attached to it. I'm not so sure about the proper way to eat that stuff, but I would guess that the bone and fat (suet ?) was never intended to be eaten. The eye of the prime rib is about the most tender you will find on a cow and I believe all that fat acts the same way as the gravy drippings you favor. Cooking the meat in the rendered fat adds something to the flavor, but as I mentioned above many of those cuts are best prepared and eaten rare. Filet Mignon is the extension of that eye of the rib, or in other words the tenderloin. The end part is pretty much fat free and the Mignon sometimes is prepared with a wrapping of bacon to provide the fat and additional flavor. Seems like a contradiction to wrap such a great portion of beef in pig fat.
Re: Vertical Clouds
What we called Drummies, back home and down here, are the part of the wing without the wing itself.
They look like little miniature drumsticks.
Buffalo Wings usually meant the whole wing including drummies and wing tips, but in a hot sauce.
I never did like Pork Rinds, even though I know a lot of people who love them.
Debi eats them although she's not supposed to, so I call them Pork Rinds LITE, a bit a sarcasm, hi hi.
My favorite piece of meat is Eye of Round, in either Select or Choice, never as Prime. I hate Prime cuts.
I can do a lot with an Eye of Round, everything from steaks to a roast, and in between.
London Broil is one of the cheapest cuts of meat, and so tough, it is usually cut in thin slices like bacon.
But by adding that fancy name they charge more for it than they should, hi hi.
I've always called Filet Mignon, the Toothpick Special, hi hi. A restaurant up in Hinsdale near Oak Brook, made an awesome Toothpick Special. Thing would melt in your mouth, and had great flavor, not like the ones back home.
They look like little miniature drumsticks.
Buffalo Wings usually meant the whole wing including drummies and wing tips, but in a hot sauce.
I never did like Pork Rinds, even though I know a lot of people who love them.
Debi eats them although she's not supposed to, so I call them Pork Rinds LITE, a bit a sarcasm, hi hi.
My favorite piece of meat is Eye of Round, in either Select or Choice, never as Prime. I hate Prime cuts.
I can do a lot with an Eye of Round, everything from steaks to a roast, and in between.
London Broil is one of the cheapest cuts of meat, and so tough, it is usually cut in thin slices like bacon.
But by adding that fancy name they charge more for it than they should, hi hi.
I've always called Filet Mignon, the Toothpick Special, hi hi. A restaurant up in Hinsdale near Oak Brook, made an awesome Toothpick Special. Thing would melt in your mouth, and had great flavor, not like the ones back home.
Re: Vertical Clouds
It's likely that I've seen drummies but did not know what they are. LOL You are right about the Buffalo wings being the entire wing in most places. I have had them without the tip somewhere in my dark past. Hot and spicey is not my favorite food so that I rarely eat such things in my old age. Once in a while a few red pepper flakes in a dish will add zest, but it must be only a few. Very few.
I use eye of round for a variety of things and almost always slow cook the meat for at least a couple hours. That slow cooking tenderizes the eye but it never really gets fork tender. A knife is almost always needed to slice trough it unless it's a stew. Then small diced chunks do not need to be cut. I also made London Broil a few times, but frankly I don't know what to do with it. I used to cook it on the grill outside, but no longer have access to a grill. It gets smoked that way but still ends up too chewy for my taste. Choice meat is acceptable, but select is just one step above what has to go into the dumpster and can't be sold. LOL Some of the discount stores around here sell that and don't tell you what it is. I think Aldi is one such place. I can see grinding it up and making something like chili with a select cut of meat. Even then I don't favor my chili to be chewy.
I use eye of round for a variety of things and almost always slow cook the meat for at least a couple hours. That slow cooking tenderizes the eye but it never really gets fork tender. A knife is almost always needed to slice trough it unless it's a stew. Then small diced chunks do not need to be cut. I also made London Broil a few times, but frankly I don't know what to do with it. I used to cook it on the grill outside, but no longer have access to a grill. It gets smoked that way but still ends up too chewy for my taste. Choice meat is acceptable, but select is just one step above what has to go into the dumpster and can't be sold. LOL Some of the discount stores around here sell that and don't tell you what it is. I think Aldi is one such place. I can see grinding it up and making something like chili with a select cut of meat. Even then I don't favor my chili to be chewy.
Re: Vertical Clouds
I do know, although the meat is fresh, the discount stores meat is always tough, really tough.
You can slow cook it until it is as tender as can be, but if it cools back down, it turns back to being even tougher than when it was before it was cooked, and can't be made soft again. The dogs like it though, hi hi.
Round steak and roasts have always been the cheaper cuts of meat, but cooked properly, like as a low slow cooked roast, it does melt in your mouth, even reheated later. But what I like most is the Onions and Gravy. I can make a meal out of the bread, butter, and the gravy, along with some of the vegies that are left.
My late wife Ruth's father was a butcher, so she knew exactly what cuts of good meat to buy in the cheapest way.
But more importantly, she knew how to cut the meat so it was great cooked as steaks or as roasts.
She could get a cheap brisket cut and turn it into a gourmet meal. It was all in how she sliced and steamed it before cooking.
On the few occasions when we had meats that hardened up after we finished a meal, she would grind the cooked meat and use it with cheese and macaroni or in a soup she made.
You can slow cook it until it is as tender as can be, but if it cools back down, it turns back to being even tougher than when it was before it was cooked, and can't be made soft again. The dogs like it though, hi hi.
Round steak and roasts have always been the cheaper cuts of meat, but cooked properly, like as a low slow cooked roast, it does melt in your mouth, even reheated later. But what I like most is the Onions and Gravy. I can make a meal out of the bread, butter, and the gravy, along with some of the vegies that are left.
My late wife Ruth's father was a butcher, so she knew exactly what cuts of good meat to buy in the cheapest way.
But more importantly, she knew how to cut the meat so it was great cooked as steaks or as roasts.
She could get a cheap brisket cut and turn it into a gourmet meal. It was all in how she sliced and steamed it before cooking.
On the few occasions when we had meats that hardened up after we finished a meal, she would grind the cooked meat and use it with cheese and macaroni or in a soup she made.
ri
Brisket isn't normally a highly prized cut of meat. I have seen it sold in Jewish delis and it's on some restaurant menus around here too. I never had the Kosher version but around O'Fallon I'm guessing they use brisket like pulled pork. It's is a very fibrous cut of meat and normally would not be tender, but as you point out it all depends on how it is prepared. I've heard about steaming meats before cooking. Some of the best fall off the bone BBQ ribs are prepared that way, or just boiled for a couple hours to melt all that cartilage before searing it.
I found a recipe for cube steak, a meat normally don't favor. I'm always suspicious of anything that needs to be "tenderized" before cooking it. Schnucks often has them and they look pretty lean. So I bought some recently and found a recipe on line that uses a brown gravy with onion soup mix added to it. That onion soup mix makes the whole dish absolutely heavenly. It's probably close to that onions and gravy concoction you like so much. And, I discovered the trick to making edible cube steak is to not over cook it. Left overs are kind of iffy, but still good with that onion gravy.
I was surprised when I walked through Aldi's several years ago. The meat prices were exceptionally low. I know I bought some cut of meat and was not too thrilled with it. Looking back at that experience all I can think is that they were selling select grade meat in order to keep the prices down. It makes sense if you are on a budget. A little extra chewing never hurt anybody. LOL
I found a recipe for cube steak, a meat normally don't favor. I'm always suspicious of anything that needs to be "tenderized" before cooking it. Schnucks often has them and they look pretty lean. So I bought some recently and found a recipe on line that uses a brown gravy with onion soup mix added to it. That onion soup mix makes the whole dish absolutely heavenly. It's probably close to that onions and gravy concoction you like so much. And, I discovered the trick to making edible cube steak is to not over cook it. Left overs are kind of iffy, but still good with that onion gravy.
I was surprised when I walked through Aldi's several years ago. The meat prices were exceptionally low. I know I bought some cut of meat and was not too thrilled with it. Looking back at that experience all I can think is that they were selling select grade meat in order to keep the prices down. It makes sense if you are on a budget. A little extra chewing never hurt anybody. LOL
Re: Vertical Clouds
If you cut brisket across the grain in super thin slices, it will melt in your mouth, and not be stringy.
I agree, there's no such thing as having left over cube steak, eat it while it's hot or give the rest, after washing off any onion to the pooches. Can't reheat it unless you need a new sole for your shoe, hi hi.
I actually prefer Select and Choice meats, and normally hate Prime cuts of meat, which I call Suet, hi hi.
I agree, there's no such thing as having left over cube steak, eat it while it's hot or give the rest, after washing off any onion to the pooches. Can't reheat it unless you need a new sole for your shoe, hi hi.
I actually prefer Select and Choice meats, and normally hate Prime cuts of meat, which I call Suet, hi hi.
Re: Vertical Clouds
You are right about reheated cube stake. It's very tricky but can be done in the microwave using 1/2 power or less for an extended time. That warms it up instead of cooking it. If it was prepared correctly the day before, it will still be edible warmed up.
Now that you mention the cross cutting of the brisket I seem to recall eating it that way as pepper steak. It probably would be good sliced thin as is corned beef, which is probably what they did with it in the Jewish deli.
Now that you mention the cross cutting of the brisket I seem to recall eating it that way as pepper steak. It probably would be good sliced thin as is corned beef, which is probably what they did with it in the Jewish deli.
Re: Vertical Clouds
When I lived back home, I had a steamer I kept since before I sold my restaurant.
I made good use of it also for years. But ended up selling it before I moved south.
You could take a tough cut of meat and put it in that thing for 10 minutes and it would come out hot and tender.
Or if you left in there too long, it would fall apart, hi hi.
Whenever we had a chicken dinner, I took the left over carcass and put it in the steamer until the chicken fell off the bone, and then I could use the meat, plus the broth in a soup base. Or if sorta stringy, use it like pulled pork on sandwiches.
My mom would take steaks that turned out tough, and cut them into 3/8 inch wide strips with the grain, then cut those in 1/4 inch thick slices across the grain, and use it in vegetable beef soup, or sometimes just heat them up in a double boiler and add some BBQ sauce and call them a type of sloppy Joe. Mom did not grind up too many meats into burger meat though. She seemed to always have a different way of using it that made it tender, edible, and usually flavorful.
One of my dad's favorite things, long before fast food places, was a product called Bonnie Butter Beefsteaks. They were like a triple cubed piece of tough steak, so was almost like hamburger, they came frozen, and shaped like a hamburger, thin, and with a patty of butter on top. All you had to do was heat up a skillet, and toss them in butter side down, and flip them after 2 minutes for 1 more minute and they were done. He loved the taste of those things. It wasn't until we had a Steak n Shake restaurant that I found a taste very similar to those things. A single burger at Steak n Shake!
I made good use of it also for years. But ended up selling it before I moved south.
You could take a tough cut of meat and put it in that thing for 10 minutes and it would come out hot and tender.
Or if you left in there too long, it would fall apart, hi hi.
Whenever we had a chicken dinner, I took the left over carcass and put it in the steamer until the chicken fell off the bone, and then I could use the meat, plus the broth in a soup base. Or if sorta stringy, use it like pulled pork on sandwiches.
My mom would take steaks that turned out tough, and cut them into 3/8 inch wide strips with the grain, then cut those in 1/4 inch thick slices across the grain, and use it in vegetable beef soup, or sometimes just heat them up in a double boiler and add some BBQ sauce and call them a type of sloppy Joe. Mom did not grind up too many meats into burger meat though. She seemed to always have a different way of using it that made it tender, edible, and usually flavorful.
One of my dad's favorite things, long before fast food places, was a product called Bonnie Butter Beefsteaks. They were like a triple cubed piece of tough steak, so was almost like hamburger, they came frozen, and shaped like a hamburger, thin, and with a patty of butter on top. All you had to do was heat up a skillet, and toss them in butter side down, and flip them after 2 minutes for 1 more minute and they were done. He loved the taste of those things. It wasn't until we had a Steak n Shake restaurant that I found a taste very similar to those things. A single burger at Steak n Shake!
Re: Vertical Clouds
Mom didn't have a steamer per se, but she did have a pressure cooker. It did exactly what you describe the steamer doing. Anything cooked inside the pressure cooker would turn to mush if left in there too long, which was a bad idea for vegetables but great for many cuts of meat and poultry. Apparently that cooker worked on the principle of steam cooking because that is what came out of the safety valve after things heated up. I recall eating a lot of chicken that way because I didn't like it. Fried chicken was the only thing I liked as a kid, and it had be a drumstick in order for it to be edible to me. LOL
I heard a lot about Steak N Shake but never ate one until I was well into my 50's. They simply did not exist north of Springfield, Illinois. Their burger was certainly a step above the McDonald's equivalent that was made with some kind of mystery meat. However, after several years of hype and finally getting to taste one, I was a bit disappointed. It was OK, but it was not exceptional. It definitely did not have the hamburger texture of those other fast food joints, but I was very hesitant to call it steak. Over the years they thinned it out too, which meant it was mostly bread from the bun unless you got a double or triple version. We have a Steak N Shake on the south side of town here, but we have yet to go there and eat.
Today was "recycle" day in O'Fallon, which happens about once every few months for the purpose of disposing of electronic stuff. Actually, the city of O'Fallon had nothing to do with it. Some private organization parked four huge vans in the parking lot of of the local baseball stadium and about a half dozen volunteers took the stuff from your trunk. It was pretty simple and the line was not very long but the vans were nearly half full after being open only 90 minutes. There was an incredible amount of electronics being collected and it all amazed me. Very few people actually recycle electronics so that the pile of junk represented only a very small portion of what is out there in the real world. I was glad to see all that recycling, but somewhat taken back by the prospects of what people toss and do not recycle.
I heard a lot about Steak N Shake but never ate one until I was well into my 50's. They simply did not exist north of Springfield, Illinois. Their burger was certainly a step above the McDonald's equivalent that was made with some kind of mystery meat. However, after several years of hype and finally getting to taste one, I was a bit disappointed. It was OK, but it was not exceptional. It definitely did not have the hamburger texture of those other fast food joints, but I was very hesitant to call it steak. Over the years they thinned it out too, which meant it was mostly bread from the bun unless you got a double or triple version. We have a Steak N Shake on the south side of town here, but we have yet to go there and eat.
Today was "recycle" day in O'Fallon, which happens about once every few months for the purpose of disposing of electronic stuff. Actually, the city of O'Fallon had nothing to do with it. Some private organization parked four huge vans in the parking lot of of the local baseball stadium and about a half dozen volunteers took the stuff from your trunk. It was pretty simple and the line was not very long but the vans were nearly half full after being open only 90 minutes. There was an incredible amount of electronics being collected and it all amazed me. Very few people actually recycle electronics so that the pile of junk represented only a very small portion of what is out there in the real world. I was glad to see all that recycling, but somewhat taken back by the prospects of what people toss and do not recycle.
Re: Vertical Clouds
We have pressure cookers also, but normally only use them for canning. We don't even use the Su Vid(sp) way of cooking, tried it a few times, makes all meat taste like boiled meat which I hate, even though the water never touches the meat.
I liked the Steak n Shake burger flavor back home, but the one they have down here, quite a ways from us, is not the same taste. But then it could be they all changed how they make their burgers. The Steak n Shake Commissary used to be about 3 miles from my house when I lived in Creve Coeur, but then they started getting all their stuff for the stores independently and closed down the Commissary.
Electronics recycling is almost a joke in some areas. They only want the circuit boards to get the gold out of them, and all the rest still ends up in a landfill. I do know one recycler down here that gets a whole lot of things out of electronics besides the gold. He gets all the metals out, including the copper, tin, and lead. And even some of the plastics he can turn to powder and resell, but not a whole lot of the plastics. It costs them more to keep the steel components than they make when they sell the bales of steel, but they still do it anyhow. But here too, it's the gold they are after more than anything else.
Some day in the distant future, after hyperinflation, our landfills will become gold mines to recyclers. The junk we toss in them now will finally be worth something, and the trouble to get it back out again.
I liked the Steak n Shake burger flavor back home, but the one they have down here, quite a ways from us, is not the same taste. But then it could be they all changed how they make their burgers. The Steak n Shake Commissary used to be about 3 miles from my house when I lived in Creve Coeur, but then they started getting all their stuff for the stores independently and closed down the Commissary.
Electronics recycling is almost a joke in some areas. They only want the circuit boards to get the gold out of them, and all the rest still ends up in a landfill. I do know one recycler down here that gets a whole lot of things out of electronics besides the gold. He gets all the metals out, including the copper, tin, and lead. And even some of the plastics he can turn to powder and resell, but not a whole lot of the plastics. It costs them more to keep the steel components than they make when they sell the bales of steel, but they still do it anyhow. But here too, it's the gold they are after more than anything else.
Some day in the distant future, after hyperinflation, our landfills will become gold mines to recyclers. The junk we toss in them now will finally be worth something, and the trouble to get it back out again.
Re: Vertical Clouds
There is a lot of decomposing going on in those landfill hills. The organic material has some effect on the other junk buried alongside it, but I'd have to agree with the notion that some things simply do not oxidize, or corrode any other way; things such as gold. None of the elements are lost, but the chemical stew of a landfill changes everything to the point where it may not be recoverable. Certainly the plastics buried in landfills can't be recovered and repurposed for anything but boat anchors, perhaps. There are only a certain number of boats so that I'm not sure even that is worth mining. About all a landfill will be worth a hundred hears from now is its real estate value. I've already seen shopping malls built on old landfills. I think the salty sea water will be more rewarding in the future than will landfills. They already are extracting things like hydrogen from sea water and using it to make flow batteries that have zero pollution. Recovering minerals from sea water seems like it would be easier than doing the same with landfill.
I doubt that the Steak N Shake meats of today are anything like what they were 50 years ago. I used to go there for their soup and hotdogs, and rarely ordered a steak burger. I think it was their vegetable soup that was out of this world. I also recall pasta being good. Thinking it was some spaghetti dinner that I ordered when I didn't get the hotdog. LOL There are 4 or 5 McDonalds in town as opposed to only one Steak N Shake. It just goes to show you where the people's tastes are.
I doubt that the Steak N Shake meats of today are anything like what they were 50 years ago. I used to go there for their soup and hotdogs, and rarely ordered a steak burger. I think it was their vegetable soup that was out of this world. I also recall pasta being good. Thinking it was some spaghetti dinner that I ordered when I didn't get the hotdog. LOL There are 4 or 5 McDonalds in town as opposed to only one Steak N Shake. It just goes to show you where the people's tastes are.
Re: Vertical Clouds
I will agree that there is a LOT that does not have to end up in a landfill.
But the problem currently is, it simply costs too much to do anything else with most of the stuff.
Glass can be pulverized and reused. Metals can be resmelted and the alloys separated like they do with fresh ore.
Plastics could be chemically treated to melt them down, and then a refinery could separate out the different elements of the plastics.
Unfortunately, the cost of doing those things is currently higher than starting with raw materials.
And, we now know of certain bacteria that can eat plastic. Also they discovered a Mushroom that thrives on most plastics it finds in open fields and mainly forests. The name of the mushroom is Pestalotiopsis Microspora. It was first discovered where farmers used plastic sheets as mulch, and then discarded those plastic sheets once they were no longer usable, after a few seasons of use and dumped in a dump on the property. The mushrooms took over the dump areas and it breaks down polyurethane, the key ingredient in plastics, and turns it back into organic matter. Naturally it doesn't work on buried plastics, but that is where the different plastic eating bacteria's take over.
And FWIW: Landfills are sealed areas so effluent from the garbage does not work its way into our water tables.
We have about 300 more years of oil and gas, and long before it is used up as fuels, we will have found other means of supplying our energy. Many of these concepts are already in the works as I speak.
McDonald's hamburgers were only 15 cents when a Steak n Shake burger was like 75 cents.
Even today, you can still get an 89 cent hamburger from McDonalds, and Steak n Shake is like 3 bucks.
What I like about the original Steak n Shake burgers was they ground the entire cow, including the more expensive cuts of meat.
We used to joke about their ad that claimed they used the entire cow. We would say yes, and all the innards and bones too, hi hi. Today, those more expensive cuts of beef are not in the ground beef anymore, so the taste is different.
There's no telling what all is left out of the ground beef McDonald's uses, hi hi.
Or what strange things they might be putting into it either.
By Law: They cannot use the word Hamburger unless it meets certain government specs.
Steak n Shake was always much better than the government specs.
While places that used just the word Burger, or Beefsteak, or some other name, like Quarter Pounder, those did not have to come up to government specs to use the word Hamburger.
We had a restaurant in town back home in the 70's called Burger Den, Home of the Tiger and the Cub.
They were not allowed to use the word Hamburger, and if you asked for a Hamburger, the waitress would direct you to the sign to order either a Tiger or a Cub. One even said, we don't have Hamburgers, we have Tiger or Cub Burgers.
I asked Mr. Rapp the owner about that once, and he says the law does not allow them to use the word Hamburger and he didn't want to take any chances of getting shut down.
But the problem currently is, it simply costs too much to do anything else with most of the stuff.
Glass can be pulverized and reused. Metals can be resmelted and the alloys separated like they do with fresh ore.
Plastics could be chemically treated to melt them down, and then a refinery could separate out the different elements of the plastics.
Unfortunately, the cost of doing those things is currently higher than starting with raw materials.
And, we now know of certain bacteria that can eat plastic. Also they discovered a Mushroom that thrives on most plastics it finds in open fields and mainly forests. The name of the mushroom is Pestalotiopsis Microspora. It was first discovered where farmers used plastic sheets as mulch, and then discarded those plastic sheets once they were no longer usable, after a few seasons of use and dumped in a dump on the property. The mushrooms took over the dump areas and it breaks down polyurethane, the key ingredient in plastics, and turns it back into organic matter. Naturally it doesn't work on buried plastics, but that is where the different plastic eating bacteria's take over.
And FWIW: Landfills are sealed areas so effluent from the garbage does not work its way into our water tables.
We have about 300 more years of oil and gas, and long before it is used up as fuels, we will have found other means of supplying our energy. Many of these concepts are already in the works as I speak.
McDonald's hamburgers were only 15 cents when a Steak n Shake burger was like 75 cents.
Even today, you can still get an 89 cent hamburger from McDonalds, and Steak n Shake is like 3 bucks.
What I like about the original Steak n Shake burgers was they ground the entire cow, including the more expensive cuts of meat.
We used to joke about their ad that claimed they used the entire cow. We would say yes, and all the innards and bones too, hi hi. Today, those more expensive cuts of beef are not in the ground beef anymore, so the taste is different.
There's no telling what all is left out of the ground beef McDonald's uses, hi hi.
Or what strange things they might be putting into it either.
By Law: They cannot use the word Hamburger unless it meets certain government specs.
Steak n Shake was always much better than the government specs.
While places that used just the word Burger, or Beefsteak, or some other name, like Quarter Pounder, those did not have to come up to government specs to use the word Hamburger.
We had a restaurant in town back home in the 70's called Burger Den, Home of the Tiger and the Cub.
They were not allowed to use the word Hamburger, and if you asked for a Hamburger, the waitress would direct you to the sign to order either a Tiger or a Cub. One even said, we don't have Hamburgers, we have Tiger or Cub Burgers.
I asked Mr. Rapp the owner about that once, and he says the law does not allow them to use the word Hamburger and he didn't want to take any chances of getting shut down.
Re: Vertical Clouds
It has been literally decades since I ordered anything from a McDonalds. Once in a great while as we travel and there is no other choice but Mickey D's I will get an order of fries from them. How can they screw that up? Well, they can, but I do make exceptions once in a while. So, maybe twenty years ago I would patronize the local fast food shops but even then was quite fussy about what kind of sandwiches I'd order. I had the idea that Wendy's was the closest thing to real hamburgers so that was my usual choice when they were available. I'm still not sure what they put into their burgers, but it tasted good enough for me to come back and order again. McDonalds only had two things I would trust. One was their Egg McMuffin and the other was their plain old hamburger, which I generally would order in pairs. I did that to combine the meat paddies from both into one sandwich. The best part of that was the pickle which I believe added all the taste. I also seem to recall that Mc D's called that bottom of the line burger a hamburger, unlike the Big Mac or Quarter Pounder. Those hamburgers were dirt cheap and tasted fairly good which is why I allowed them into my mouth. When I was a kid still getting around by bicycle McDonalds opened up their first shop in our neighborhood. Those 15 cent hamburgers were the best, even better than the greasy White Castles which sold for a dime.
I agree that the recovery costs of recycled goods is too high to be a profitable business. That's why I was amazed at the recycling of all those electronic gadgets last weekend. Getting anything useful from that pile of junk would involve almost all hand labor for very little return. Perhaps the gold plating on the circuit boards makes it worth it, but even recovering that is labor intensive.
I've also read about those plastic eating microbes which seems like a good idea. The problem is their byproduct is something similar to methane; I don't recall exactly what. Those bugs apparently fart greenhouse gases, which might be a small price to pay for getting rid of all the waste. However, I wonder why plastic eating bugs are not more common. I've also read about some type of flower, a lily I believe, that will leach out radio active elements from the soil around it. Seems like that would work well in places like Chernobyl, or certain school districts around STL that were built upon radio active waste sites.
I agree that the recovery costs of recycled goods is too high to be a profitable business. That's why I was amazed at the recycling of all those electronic gadgets last weekend. Getting anything useful from that pile of junk would involve almost all hand labor for very little return. Perhaps the gold plating on the circuit boards makes it worth it, but even recovering that is labor intensive.
I've also read about those plastic eating microbes which seems like a good idea. The problem is their byproduct is something similar to methane; I don't recall exactly what. Those bugs apparently fart greenhouse gases, which might be a small price to pay for getting rid of all the waste. However, I wonder why plastic eating bugs are not more common. I've also read about some type of flower, a lily I believe, that will leach out radio active elements from the soil around it. Seems like that would work well in places like Chernobyl, or certain school districts around STL that were built upon radio active waste sites.
Re: Vertical Clouds
I often had to deliver out in the rural areas of adjoining counties, and there were a lot of burger places that offered a sack of 12 or 15 hamburgers for only a buck. But that was the only way they sold them, and were more than I could eat. I would only use half the buns, putting two patties on the same bun, and giving the birds the rest of the buns. Most of the time they tasted much better than other burgers, but I don't rightly know why. One place I stopped at quite often, 12 for a dollar, the meat tasted great, sorta like a cross between a McDonald's and a Steak n Shake, but flame grilled like a Burger King was made which brings out even more flavor.
I loved Wendy's also, and my cousin worked there and told me how their burgers were made. Extra steps not used by the other burger joints. At the time she worked there, from ground meat they formed a patty lightly seared it, then boiled it in water before stacking them up for grilling. The boiling made them more tender and got some of the fat out, and then when they were fried, they were seared just long enough to impart a steak like flavor to them. But they did use good ground beef to start with.
But I've heard they no longer go through those extra steps anymore. One place said their burgers are steamed then fried.
Yeppers, and the gold used on the fittings is now much thinner than it used to be, so there is less of it.
We get good money for our recycled aluminum cans here. We always get a higher bonus price because not only are our cans clean, no wet inside, they do not have any sugar in them, so attract no bugs, etc.
The place we used to take our aluminum, and they only took aluminum, copper, and brass, sold out to the company we passed first on the way to them. The first place took paper, plastics, steel, and non-ferrous metals, but didn't pay as much for soda cans as the place we drove a little further to get to. But now they have upped their price for clean soda cans, so it is now only one stop for all the stuff we recycle.
They gave my wife this little chart showing what they take, and if you have plastics sorted by their HDPE numbers, you get a tiny bit more for them. One thing I was grinding up with my paper to use as mulch were my cigarette packages. Inside every cigarette pack is a piece of aluminum coated paper. I'm sure that aluminum is as thin as they can possibly make it. But when aluminum cans are 45 cents a pound, and scrap aluminum is 42 cents a pound, they are still paying 12 cents a pound for aluminum backed paper. The only plastic they do not take at all is aluminized mylar, aka potato chip bags and candy wrappers whether white inside or aluminized, nor the cellophane from cigarette packs. They said neither of those two items can be recycled. I know from using shredded paper, which included my cigarette packages, that cellophane breaks down just like the paper does, and about as fast. The paper coated aluminum that was usually in my mix doesn't break down, so I stopped using that shredded paper around an area where I did it heavily, and about three years later I could scrape up the aluminum that was left behind. Put it in a canvas bag hanging outside, so it kept getting washing off when it rained. At least I did get around 40 cents a pound for it, but only had 3 pounds after collecting 3 years worth from the ground, hi hi.
Paper products you need one heck of a lot of. They prefer corrugated cartons laid flat and stacked on a pallet, so if you don't have at least 100 pounds, it's not worth bringing it in, but they will take all paper for next to free, might give you a penny or a nickel for a whole car load, hi hi.
Our landfill dumps around here are very interesting places to see. They take an area and divide it up into sections, and then the area is sealed except for the top being open. After several trucks empty into it, then they put dirt over that days fill and another sealing tarp. Then on the week old filled areas, they tamp that down which compresses it to about 1/2 the previous height. There are PVC pipes that carry odors from those sealed areas, and I do think they recapture some of the gasses, and burn some of the gasses. I never looked into it that far.
The older dumps that are not that elaborate all do have pipes for burning off odors, but they don't cover with tarps, they merely add a layer of dirt over the days dumped goods and spray water over that. Then the next days trash goes over the newly dirt filled and water soaked area. You don't see much loose garbage, nearly everything being dumped out of the trucks is in plastic trash bags. Our local old style landfill will take another 20 to 30 years before it is filled up, and the way they work, they are constantly going back and forth over older areas that have sunk down like a sink hole.
Most of the landfill areas down here were old quarries, and some of the quarries they turned into fishing lakes.
People make such a big deal out of the plastic bags we bring our groceries home from the store in, when it is not a problem at all. Those little T-Shirt bags we haul home from the grocery store would take each person over 5 years to amass enough to use up 6 cubic inches of space in a landfill. And if you repurpose those bags, use them more than once, it would take 10 years to use up that 6 inch cube of space. This is why they are not a problem.
The plastic film wrapping on things like meats is even thinner than T-Shirt bags. It takes a family of 4 close to 10 years to use up a commercial size roll of food service film. Plus what they haul home from the store as wrappings over foods would take them around 10 years to use up another 6 cubic inches of space in a landfill. The type of Plastics everyone squawks about are not the problem. And of course, nothing biodegradable is the problem. So what's left? Polyurethane based thick plastics that will last thousands of years in a landfill, unless bacteria consume it all.
Most folks don't know that plastic films are made from natural gas, not oil.
We had a town in Missouri, just outside of St. Louis County and just beyond the Meramec River, where the gravel roads in that town were treated with used motor oil to keep the dust down and to eventually make the roads like tar. Well, all that oil turned into Dioxin, so the entire town was condemned. It sat vacant for many years. Then some developer bought that land and dug up all the roads and built an incinerator plant to burn up all that oil. Ended up making a temporary electrical plant in the process. Then after it was all dug out and the area considered clear of Dioxin, they brought in like 8 or 9 feet of landfill dirt to cover the whole thing. But then it had to sit another 5 years to wait and see if any more Dioxin could be tested. None was, so now that area is a line of fast food restaurants along the highway, and a couple of factories behind.
I loved Wendy's also, and my cousin worked there and told me how their burgers were made. Extra steps not used by the other burger joints. At the time she worked there, from ground meat they formed a patty lightly seared it, then boiled it in water before stacking them up for grilling. The boiling made them more tender and got some of the fat out, and then when they were fried, they were seared just long enough to impart a steak like flavor to them. But they did use good ground beef to start with.
But I've heard they no longer go through those extra steps anymore. One place said their burgers are steamed then fried.
Yeppers, and the gold used on the fittings is now much thinner than it used to be, so there is less of it.
We get good money for our recycled aluminum cans here. We always get a higher bonus price because not only are our cans clean, no wet inside, they do not have any sugar in them, so attract no bugs, etc.
The place we used to take our aluminum, and they only took aluminum, copper, and brass, sold out to the company we passed first on the way to them. The first place took paper, plastics, steel, and non-ferrous metals, but didn't pay as much for soda cans as the place we drove a little further to get to. But now they have upped their price for clean soda cans, so it is now only one stop for all the stuff we recycle.
They gave my wife this little chart showing what they take, and if you have plastics sorted by their HDPE numbers, you get a tiny bit more for them. One thing I was grinding up with my paper to use as mulch were my cigarette packages. Inside every cigarette pack is a piece of aluminum coated paper. I'm sure that aluminum is as thin as they can possibly make it. But when aluminum cans are 45 cents a pound, and scrap aluminum is 42 cents a pound, they are still paying 12 cents a pound for aluminum backed paper. The only plastic they do not take at all is aluminized mylar, aka potato chip bags and candy wrappers whether white inside or aluminized, nor the cellophane from cigarette packs. They said neither of those two items can be recycled. I know from using shredded paper, which included my cigarette packages, that cellophane breaks down just like the paper does, and about as fast. The paper coated aluminum that was usually in my mix doesn't break down, so I stopped using that shredded paper around an area where I did it heavily, and about three years later I could scrape up the aluminum that was left behind. Put it in a canvas bag hanging outside, so it kept getting washing off when it rained. At least I did get around 40 cents a pound for it, but only had 3 pounds after collecting 3 years worth from the ground, hi hi.
Paper products you need one heck of a lot of. They prefer corrugated cartons laid flat and stacked on a pallet, so if you don't have at least 100 pounds, it's not worth bringing it in, but they will take all paper for next to free, might give you a penny or a nickel for a whole car load, hi hi.
Our landfill dumps around here are very interesting places to see. They take an area and divide it up into sections, and then the area is sealed except for the top being open. After several trucks empty into it, then they put dirt over that days fill and another sealing tarp. Then on the week old filled areas, they tamp that down which compresses it to about 1/2 the previous height. There are PVC pipes that carry odors from those sealed areas, and I do think they recapture some of the gasses, and burn some of the gasses. I never looked into it that far.
The older dumps that are not that elaborate all do have pipes for burning off odors, but they don't cover with tarps, they merely add a layer of dirt over the days dumped goods and spray water over that. Then the next days trash goes over the newly dirt filled and water soaked area. You don't see much loose garbage, nearly everything being dumped out of the trucks is in plastic trash bags. Our local old style landfill will take another 20 to 30 years before it is filled up, and the way they work, they are constantly going back and forth over older areas that have sunk down like a sink hole.
Most of the landfill areas down here were old quarries, and some of the quarries they turned into fishing lakes.
People make such a big deal out of the plastic bags we bring our groceries home from the store in, when it is not a problem at all. Those little T-Shirt bags we haul home from the grocery store would take each person over 5 years to amass enough to use up 6 cubic inches of space in a landfill. And if you repurpose those bags, use them more than once, it would take 10 years to use up that 6 inch cube of space. This is why they are not a problem.
The plastic film wrapping on things like meats is even thinner than T-Shirt bags. It takes a family of 4 close to 10 years to use up a commercial size roll of food service film. Plus what they haul home from the store as wrappings over foods would take them around 10 years to use up another 6 cubic inches of space in a landfill. The type of Plastics everyone squawks about are not the problem. And of course, nothing biodegradable is the problem. So what's left? Polyurethane based thick plastics that will last thousands of years in a landfill, unless bacteria consume it all.
Most folks don't know that plastic films are made from natural gas, not oil.
We had a town in Missouri, just outside of St. Louis County and just beyond the Meramec River, where the gravel roads in that town were treated with used motor oil to keep the dust down and to eventually make the roads like tar. Well, all that oil turned into Dioxin, so the entire town was condemned. It sat vacant for many years. Then some developer bought that land and dug up all the roads and built an incinerator plant to burn up all that oil. Ended up making a temporary electrical plant in the process. Then after it was all dug out and the area considered clear of Dioxin, they brought in like 8 or 9 feet of landfill dirt to cover the whole thing. But then it had to sit another 5 years to wait and see if any more Dioxin could be tested. None was, so now that area is a line of fast food restaurants along the highway, and a couple of factories behind.
Re: Vertical Clouds
You are the man when it comes to recycling. I hear a lot of people talk about it and make their token contributions to the cause, but your family seems a lot more active and knowledgeable than most others. Right now recycling is part of a dream people have about cleaning up the environment. I'm not sure how effective it all is, plus there are a lot of recycled goods that never get recycled. I don't know where they are putting that stuff. I do know there is a lot of potential energy that can be extracted from all that waste, and you yourself have speculated that landfills will be mined in the future for their elements. I'm thinking there will be a shortage of energy when the population of earth reaches a certain point. It is at that time that mining garbage dumps and oceans will be developed for their energy potential. Today a lot of methane is simply burned off from landfill sites and I am sure it can be used for something useful when necessary. Incinerators also seem like a good idea, but only up to a point. The heat can be used to generate electricity, but the fumes from the fire need to be cleaned up before they are released into the atmosphere. It might be a wash in terms of cost, but the energy derived will be well worth the price.
Speaking of fuel cells for automobiles (we did that somewhere else in these forums), I note that Honda once again has an automobile designed to run off fuel cells. It was supposed to be sold this year, 2022, but I read the project was called off due to costs. Now I read again where they plan to marked such a vehicle in the USA for model year 2024. Go Honda.
Speaking of fuel cells for automobiles (we did that somewhere else in these forums), I note that Honda once again has an automobile designed to run off fuel cells. It was supposed to be sold this year, 2022, but I read the project was called off due to costs. Now I read again where they plan to marked such a vehicle in the USA for model year 2024. Go Honda.
Re: Vertical Clouds
Most of the places that burn plastics and garbage as fuel to generate electricity, have massive scrubbers in their chimneys.
The sad thing is, those scrubbers must be cleaned, and the effluent from them is toxic, and often simply dumped into the sewer system, or run-off into a lagoon that after a while becomes a major bio-hazard.
My Woodstock Soapstone Stove had an elaborate Catalytic Converter in it. But it had to be bypassed to get the stove started, and then the vent switched to run through it. The great thing about it was, it was HOT, so we got a lot more heat than one would get from like a Franklin Stove. The downside was, it didn't smell outside like we had a fire inside, hi hi.
I don't think Planet Earth is going to run out of Rocks or Sand, so the recycling of Glass is like a futile operation. When the soda and beer companies all used returnable glass bottles and we had to pay a deposit on them. Yes we got our deposit money back when we returned them to the store. This was an expensive operation for the stores to handle, not to mention the problem with odors and insect infestations they had to deal with in the storage areas. And then the bottling companies would come and pick up the bottles, transport them back to the plant where they had to be washed and sterilized, and all those with a chip or flaw from handling had to be tossed out anyhow. Modern technology made making new bottles much cheaper than using old bottles. And glass just turns back into sand.
Even when bottles were recyclable, our local taverns never threw away a liquor bottle. They had outdoor concrete block bins where they threw the bottles into, sorted by color. Most were Clear, some brown, some green, and some blue. They wanted these bottles broken, so us kids would go up there and line up the bottles on the front of the bin and shoot them. They let us do this as long as we used clear glass marbles. In fact, two bars even supplied us with marbles for free that matched the color of the bottles we were shooting into the bins. What they didn't allow was for us to get unbroken bottles out of the bins, for fear we might get hurt.
Several times a year, this truck and tractor came by and they would scoop up the glass in the bins, usually using the bucket on the truck to smash them even further. Where they took the glass, it was run between steel rollers that turned it almost into sand again. But the bulk of that glass was used as quartz sand would be used in concrete mixes.
People also make a big deal about CO2. Excessive CO2 over normal levels makes the forests greener, and allows the trees, plants, bushes, and even grass, produce more O2, which we need to survive. Heck, we used to pump CO2 into our greenhouses when we had crops we needed to green up right before sending them to the sales house or before shipping them out to clients. When you have thousands of plants inside a greenhouse, the CO2 gets used up, and the O2 is always in excess. Too much O2 will turn the plants leaves yellowish. This is why you might see the ventilators open and the fans that draw air into the greenhouse from outside standing wide open in the dead of winter. We don't want to lose the heat, but at the same time we don't want the crops to die from lack of CO2 or too much O2. There's a lot of things to consider when raising crops inside of a greenhouse!
FWIW: Fuel Cell powered cars do not do so by using an internal combustion engine. That is one of the most wasteful ways of trying to power a car with Hydrogen. The Fuel Cell technology is in its infancy, but one of the most promising right now. Then too, so are the new Solar Films with their high output compared to normal solar cells.
I don't think windmills are the answer, there is not a single one that has been profitable without getting subsidies from the government, meaning our tax dollars going to fuel their inefficiency. And then there is the waste they produce that nothing can be done with. They have a short working lifespan as well.
Some day, probably not in our remaining lifetime, but we will no longer have power companies to sell electric or distribute it.
Each home and car will have their own mini nuclear and safe power plant. And most devices we use in our home will be low power consumption devices. The lights in our homes will probably all be very low voltage LED and wired that way, instead of converting 120 volts back down to 5 volts for them.
They now sell, and I have four in my kitchen, LED lights that replace the 4 foot fluorescent tubes. But they are not that energy efficient because, the fixture they go in still has the ballast for fluorescent lamps, which is burning up about 20 watts of a 40 watt fluorescent tube. So even though a fluorescent tube itself only drew about 40 watts, the ballast still used up around 16 to 18 watts. If you convert to an LED tube, you are still burning that 20 watts up in the ballast.
That being said, I also have an LED that looks like a 4 foot fluorescent tube, that is low voltage, only 7 watts is the draw on it. Well, that is on the High setting, I can switch it from High to Medium to Low and on Low it only draws like 4 watts.
So, to make up for us folks switching over to LED lighting and low power use devices, the electric company MUST raise their rates to keep their bottom line up to appease their investors.
The sad thing is, those scrubbers must be cleaned, and the effluent from them is toxic, and often simply dumped into the sewer system, or run-off into a lagoon that after a while becomes a major bio-hazard.
My Woodstock Soapstone Stove had an elaborate Catalytic Converter in it. But it had to be bypassed to get the stove started, and then the vent switched to run through it. The great thing about it was, it was HOT, so we got a lot more heat than one would get from like a Franklin Stove. The downside was, it didn't smell outside like we had a fire inside, hi hi.
I don't think Planet Earth is going to run out of Rocks or Sand, so the recycling of Glass is like a futile operation. When the soda and beer companies all used returnable glass bottles and we had to pay a deposit on them. Yes we got our deposit money back when we returned them to the store. This was an expensive operation for the stores to handle, not to mention the problem with odors and insect infestations they had to deal with in the storage areas. And then the bottling companies would come and pick up the bottles, transport them back to the plant where they had to be washed and sterilized, and all those with a chip or flaw from handling had to be tossed out anyhow. Modern technology made making new bottles much cheaper than using old bottles. And glass just turns back into sand.
Even when bottles were recyclable, our local taverns never threw away a liquor bottle. They had outdoor concrete block bins where they threw the bottles into, sorted by color. Most were Clear, some brown, some green, and some blue. They wanted these bottles broken, so us kids would go up there and line up the bottles on the front of the bin and shoot them. They let us do this as long as we used clear glass marbles. In fact, two bars even supplied us with marbles for free that matched the color of the bottles we were shooting into the bins. What they didn't allow was for us to get unbroken bottles out of the bins, for fear we might get hurt.
Several times a year, this truck and tractor came by and they would scoop up the glass in the bins, usually using the bucket on the truck to smash them even further. Where they took the glass, it was run between steel rollers that turned it almost into sand again. But the bulk of that glass was used as quartz sand would be used in concrete mixes.
People also make a big deal about CO2. Excessive CO2 over normal levels makes the forests greener, and allows the trees, plants, bushes, and even grass, produce more O2, which we need to survive. Heck, we used to pump CO2 into our greenhouses when we had crops we needed to green up right before sending them to the sales house or before shipping them out to clients. When you have thousands of plants inside a greenhouse, the CO2 gets used up, and the O2 is always in excess. Too much O2 will turn the plants leaves yellowish. This is why you might see the ventilators open and the fans that draw air into the greenhouse from outside standing wide open in the dead of winter. We don't want to lose the heat, but at the same time we don't want the crops to die from lack of CO2 or too much O2. There's a lot of things to consider when raising crops inside of a greenhouse!
FWIW: Fuel Cell powered cars do not do so by using an internal combustion engine. That is one of the most wasteful ways of trying to power a car with Hydrogen. The Fuel Cell technology is in its infancy, but one of the most promising right now. Then too, so are the new Solar Films with their high output compared to normal solar cells.
I don't think windmills are the answer, there is not a single one that has been profitable without getting subsidies from the government, meaning our tax dollars going to fuel their inefficiency. And then there is the waste they produce that nothing can be done with. They have a short working lifespan as well.
Some day, probably not in our remaining lifetime, but we will no longer have power companies to sell electric or distribute it.
Each home and car will have their own mini nuclear and safe power plant. And most devices we use in our home will be low power consumption devices. The lights in our homes will probably all be very low voltage LED and wired that way, instead of converting 120 volts back down to 5 volts for them.
They now sell, and I have four in my kitchen, LED lights that replace the 4 foot fluorescent tubes. But they are not that energy efficient because, the fixture they go in still has the ballast for fluorescent lamps, which is burning up about 20 watts of a 40 watt fluorescent tube. So even though a fluorescent tube itself only drew about 40 watts, the ballast still used up around 16 to 18 watts. If you convert to an LED tube, you are still burning that 20 watts up in the ballast.
That being said, I also have an LED that looks like a 4 foot fluorescent tube, that is low voltage, only 7 watts is the draw on it. Well, that is on the High setting, I can switch it from High to Medium to Low and on Low it only draws like 4 watts.
So, to make up for us folks switching over to LED lighting and low power use devices, the electric company MUST raise their rates to keep their bottom line up to appease their investors.
Re: Vertical Clouds
I suspect not much is going to change during the next 10-15 years regarding energy production and consumption. It makes sense to speculate that each residential unit will be self sufficient at some point, but the way housing prices are going these days I don't have a lot of hope for the future of individual residencies. Residential apartments and most businesses will still use a power grid in that it's the most cost effective way for them to go. After we are gone the LED age will evolve into something else. I've read about research into bio-luminescence, the kind of thing fire flies and lightning bugs do. The idea would be for our walls and ceilings to light up as the situation warrants. Being biological and organic based I would not be surprised if we had to feed our houses at some point in the future to keep them alive and active. LOL
You have mentioned the O2 and CO2 life cycle of plants in the past. Recently I ran across an article that pointed out how the oxygen levels in our atmosphere are increasing. They nailed it down to the algae growing in the South Pacific, which in turn is also contributing to climate change and global warming. Not sure if this is a good news or bad news story, but apparently we will be warm and have an abundance of oxygen in the coming years.
My gardening days a long gone, but I did enjoy them tremendously. There was a certain degree of satisfaction curating the forest in back of my old house too even though it took on the appearance of maintenance. My ancestors were all farmers and perhaps I inherited some of their gardening genes. Even so, I doubt that I could handle a commercial greenhouse. I certainly would have fun with a greenhouse attached to my home, but if I had to make a living from managing such things, I would starve. You were very fortunate to have a family well versed in such things.
I understand the difference between hydrogen burning engines and fuel cells. There is too much fear and concern about handling hydrogen to make it an acceptable vehicle for our daily use. The technology is there, but nobody seems to think it will sell. Fuel cells power electric motors much like the solar panel powered car I cited elsewhere. I've read about fuel cells that are non polluting and recyclable. Apparently power companies use them for reserve power but they are not all that efficient. All it takes is a tank of salty water to make those babies work, and they have indeed made prototypes for automobiles already. Once they perfect that technology we will have batteries that are reusable and easy to recharge. Just add water. LOL
You have mentioned the O2 and CO2 life cycle of plants in the past. Recently I ran across an article that pointed out how the oxygen levels in our atmosphere are increasing. They nailed it down to the algae growing in the South Pacific, which in turn is also contributing to climate change and global warming. Not sure if this is a good news or bad news story, but apparently we will be warm and have an abundance of oxygen in the coming years.
My gardening days a long gone, but I did enjoy them tremendously. There was a certain degree of satisfaction curating the forest in back of my old house too even though it took on the appearance of maintenance. My ancestors were all farmers and perhaps I inherited some of their gardening genes. Even so, I doubt that I could handle a commercial greenhouse. I certainly would have fun with a greenhouse attached to my home, but if I had to make a living from managing such things, I would starve. You were very fortunate to have a family well versed in such things.
I understand the difference between hydrogen burning engines and fuel cells. There is too much fear and concern about handling hydrogen to make it an acceptable vehicle for our daily use. The technology is there, but nobody seems to think it will sell. Fuel cells power electric motors much like the solar panel powered car I cited elsewhere. I've read about fuel cells that are non polluting and recyclable. Apparently power companies use them for reserve power but they are not all that efficient. All it takes is a tank of salty water to make those babies work, and they have indeed made prototypes for automobiles already. Once they perfect that technology we will have batteries that are reusable and easy to recharge. Just add water. LOL
Re: Vertical Clouds
I've been in a couple of futuristic display homes where the ceilings and or walls lit up. If you remember the little round nightlights from decades ago called Panelscent, they worked in a similar fashion. But they were not bright enough to replace normal lighting, but claimed some day in the future they could be adjusted to any brightness level.
One place where I worked had a conference room that the ceiling lighting was 2 foot by 2 foot fluorescent panels. Sorta neat looking. I remember the first time I saw them, I just assumed they were drop panels under normal fluorescent lights. That was until I saw a maintenance man hauling a new one in the direction of the conference room. He said it was a single unit, no lamps inside to replace, and those suckers were heavy being made of all glass.
I've learned to ignore all the so-called climate change experts. Mainly because they will say something that shows they actually know little to nothing about what they are talking about. They may know a whole lot about one very tiny little aspect, and then blow it all by talking about something they know nothing at all about.
But one thing you can be rest assured about, our government will figure out a way to TAX something that is unchangeable! By claiming you are making more or less of it, which is as impossible as perpetual motion.
I built a little greenhouse on the side of my house. It is also interesting on how that came to be as well. I made a carpeted dog run about 16 feet long on the side of the house, so the dogs feet would be cleaner by the time they came through the doggie door into the living room. To make sure they used it as intended, it had to have a frame around it and a roof over it. Rather than making a low roof over it, I made the top of the run flat with 2x4 welded wire fabric, and started the roof up under the eave of the house, and ran it out 8 feet. Then I added another bench just like the roof of the doggie run on the outside, then enclosed the whole thing with clear plastic sheeting, and a screen door. Voila, one greenhouse, hi hi.
I still think nuclear fusion will be the method finally used for cars. Speaking of the method that has no waste and no contaminants to deal with. I think we will see this first in cars, then trucks, and finally in use in homes and businesses. Clean energy with not waste or contaminants almost sounds like a pipe dream, but they've already got it.
But I wonder what else we are learning from crashed UFO and how their EM drives work.
I wonder if folks realize just how close we are to having something akin to food replicators? They don't actually replicate food, but take existing ingredients and make an end product with the user just pushing a button. And of course keeping the ingredients hoppers filled.
I watched a short video not to long ago about a small machine that made biscuits from scratch, and a slightly larger machine that made both hot dog and hamburger buns roughly the same way, using normal cheap and simple ingredients.
A different video was showing how about three different individual small pies, and a few small cakes were being made.
I don't doubt some day, if you want eggs, waffles, and bacon for breakfast, you will just hit a button that says breakfast.
One place where I worked had a conference room that the ceiling lighting was 2 foot by 2 foot fluorescent panels. Sorta neat looking. I remember the first time I saw them, I just assumed they were drop panels under normal fluorescent lights. That was until I saw a maintenance man hauling a new one in the direction of the conference room. He said it was a single unit, no lamps inside to replace, and those suckers were heavy being made of all glass.
I've learned to ignore all the so-called climate change experts. Mainly because they will say something that shows they actually know little to nothing about what they are talking about. They may know a whole lot about one very tiny little aspect, and then blow it all by talking about something they know nothing at all about.
But one thing you can be rest assured about, our government will figure out a way to TAX something that is unchangeable! By claiming you are making more or less of it, which is as impossible as perpetual motion.
I built a little greenhouse on the side of my house. It is also interesting on how that came to be as well. I made a carpeted dog run about 16 feet long on the side of the house, so the dogs feet would be cleaner by the time they came through the doggie door into the living room. To make sure they used it as intended, it had to have a frame around it and a roof over it. Rather than making a low roof over it, I made the top of the run flat with 2x4 welded wire fabric, and started the roof up under the eave of the house, and ran it out 8 feet. Then I added another bench just like the roof of the doggie run on the outside, then enclosed the whole thing with clear plastic sheeting, and a screen door. Voila, one greenhouse, hi hi.
I still think nuclear fusion will be the method finally used for cars. Speaking of the method that has no waste and no contaminants to deal with. I think we will see this first in cars, then trucks, and finally in use in homes and businesses. Clean energy with not waste or contaminants almost sounds like a pipe dream, but they've already got it.
But I wonder what else we are learning from crashed UFO and how their EM drives work.
I wonder if folks realize just how close we are to having something akin to food replicators? They don't actually replicate food, but take existing ingredients and make an end product with the user just pushing a button. And of course keeping the ingredients hoppers filled.
I watched a short video not to long ago about a small machine that made biscuits from scratch, and a slightly larger machine that made both hot dog and hamburger buns roughly the same way, using normal cheap and simple ingredients.
A different video was showing how about three different individual small pies, and a few small cakes were being made.
I don't doubt some day, if you want eggs, waffles, and bacon for breakfast, you will just hit a button that says breakfast.
Re: Vertical Clouds
One of the unexpected benefits(?) of having an Internet is the exponential increase in the number of experts in this world. Most of them, however, are self proclaimed and have no credentials to back up their assertions. This certainly is true in the case of climatology. I must agree that it's difficult sorting out the experts from the pseudo-scientists who are motivated by an agenda that is more political than it is scientific. It truly isn't difficult to seek out the true credentialed experts, but I admit that it takes a bit of effort to research their background. Then there is the problem of complexity of the subject. Climate is not fully understood in all it's aspects and it could give the average man reason to just ignore it all. But there are people who have studied it thoroughly and combined their efforts with other serious researchers. I tend to put my confidence in those people.
You have expressed the idea a few times that fusion is the energy source of the future. As it stands today the physics behind it is prohibitive. Fusion has been accomplished many times but for microseconds and always at a loss. It takes more energy to produce the fusion than can be derived from the final product. It would take some mighty big changes in the understanding of nuclear physics in order to tame the fusion process. In the mean time I think we will just stick to batteries and motors.
Unless there are some drastic changes in our future, there will be a shortage of food as well as the shortage of energy I already mentioned. In fact it's happening right now in those places where the climate has changed and famine is a way of life. The answer seems to be synthetic food. which I suppose could be just as healthy as the naturally grown stuff. I don't know about the taste, however. I've had bakery goods made from powdered eggs and powdered milk, and it's obvious what they are doing. Synthesizing food would be a little different in that raw chemicals would be used to produce it rather than dehydration of existing supplies. Your idea of instant breakfast generated by pushing a button is appealing. But, you know, half the enjoyment of the food is in its preparation. At least that is the situation in my case.
You have expressed the idea a few times that fusion is the energy source of the future. As it stands today the physics behind it is prohibitive. Fusion has been accomplished many times but for microseconds and always at a loss. It takes more energy to produce the fusion than can be derived from the final product. It would take some mighty big changes in the understanding of nuclear physics in order to tame the fusion process. In the mean time I think we will just stick to batteries and motors.
Unless there are some drastic changes in our future, there will be a shortage of food as well as the shortage of energy I already mentioned. In fact it's happening right now in those places where the climate has changed and famine is a way of life. The answer seems to be synthetic food. which I suppose could be just as healthy as the naturally grown stuff. I don't know about the taste, however. I've had bakery goods made from powdered eggs and powdered milk, and it's obvious what they are doing. Synthesizing food would be a little different in that raw chemicals would be used to produce it rather than dehydration of existing supplies. Your idea of instant breakfast generated by pushing a button is appealing. But, you know, half the enjoyment of the food is in its preparation. At least that is the situation in my case.