I happen to like Global Warming and Climate Change.
When I think back to when I was a kid, and how deep the snows and ice were, how cold and how long it lasted. Seeing warmer weather was a blessing to us all.
Then I moved south where it is about 10 degrees warmer on average, and much milder winters, except for the occasional fluke winters that are harsh, but expected every so often.
We are coming to the end of the current ice age, so will have a long period of warmth before the next ice age kicks in again.
The way I see it, our climate has been shifting around on the globe for millions, if not billions of years.
We have many amazing sites to go visit where water has eroded away many locations leaving behind some fantastic things for us to view, aka Grand Canyon, etc.
Right now, with ice melting from the northern polar cap, we are finding fossils and some whole animals that used to live up there when it was warmer, a real boon for scientists to study.
And while some areas of the globe are having severe droughts, other areas are having excessive rainfall.
The southern polar cap is building back up about the same rate the northern polar cap is going down.
The Sahara Desert used to be a massive tropical forest, and some areas of that forest are now seeing record amounts of rainfall once again.
So YES our climate is shifting, this is nothing new, it's just that folks don't like it changing in THEIR AREA, hi hi.
Just wait until we have Global Cooling, then everyone will get their panties in a twist worrying about that.
It may not be nuclear fusion that wins in the end, we may learn enough about the power systems of crashed UFO's to come up with something even better. EM drive is a possible method in the future too. Then again, they just might figure out how the fictional transporters as shown in Star Trek worked. We can get up from bed, get clean and new clothes put on us, like on the Jetson's then press a button on our wrist controller and be zapped right to our workplace, hi hi.
My mom's dad, only out of necessity, finally bought a car. He still preferred his horses. But the cops no longer let him go into Kirkwood to do his grocery shopping with a horse drawn wagon, told him to get a car, which he finally did, hi hi.
But the strangest thing about my mom's dad was if an airplane flew over. He would stare down at the ground and mumble.
I wouldn't doubt it if I learned he was one of those who would vote that women should not fly, because of some reason to do with carrying babies inside of them, it would disrupt everything. I've actually seen grandpa stare at the ground and cover his ears when jets would be flying high overhead, when I was really young. But like everything else, he eventually took it in stride. He still stared at the ground when anything flew over, except for this hot air balloon that came over a couple of times. Now that he would look up at and wave, call them crazy idiots at the same time. He didn't seem to mind that method of flying, but a plane, he said those are not natural, man was not meant to fly.
I think most folks hate the time it takes to prepare a meal, which is why the fast food places, and ready to eat foods, and easy to prepare foods are all you find on the market now. It is rare to see someone make a meal using only the basic ingredients and all the work involved. Even so, a home cooked meal, even using already prepared ingredients is a way of life our generation has become accustomed to.
There are a lot of places where rivers are drying up, that I agree with, but the other side of that coin is there are areas getting abundant rainfall, much more than they normally get. Many times, way too much rainfall.
In dry areas, they have learned to irrigate to raise crops. In arid regions they have moved up to hydroponics where there is little waste of water, but can't be done using half-million dollar machines either, so the costs are higher.
I also see residential houses, especially those like mine on an acre of land, giving way to apartments and more apartments.
Almost nobody will be living in their own houses within about another 100 years. They will forever be paying rent to big corporations who end up owning all the housing available.
You would not believe the sheer number of new apartment complexes being built here, nor the prices they are getting for those apartments. So for me, living in a house that is paid for, and only having to worry about the taxes on it, is a real blessing, in disguise of course, but still a blessing. I could not afford to live in any of the new apartment complexes built around me here. Then too, they keep raising our taxes one heck of a lot each year, trying to drive us out and into apartments we can't afford.
When I was able, Debi and I had a large garden here, and we raised mainly those things she new how to can, so we would have them for the winter. Now we buy a lot of seasonal produce and she still cans some of it. Buying during the peak of the season, it is often cheaper than if we tried to raise it ourselves too. But now, with me unable to do anything, and she is getting there fast herself, about the only thing she has canned the past couple of years is tomatoes.
Vertical Clouds
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Re: Vertical Clouds
You are right again. We humans can't do a darn thing about the Ice Age. That's because it's history and forever gone. We can do things to preserve the current environment and consequently not accelerate climate change to an irreversible climax. You may think it's futile to try and live a greener lifestyle, but just as many people think disaster can be avoided if we change our ways. Too bad you and I will not be here when the next generation has to deal with the effects of of we did or chose not to do today.
I know people who drive automobiles in the inner cities and refuse to fly in an airplane. Their excuse is the same as your grandpa espoused; humans were not meant to fly. Pointing to statistics about safety in the air vs safety on the ground is like debating climate change. Nobody is going to change their mind under any circumstance. Well, I'm guessing your grandpa had no reason to fly even if he favored the idea. I do think the Kirkwood coppers, however, should have given him a break and "grandfathered in" his birth right to use horse and carriage as a means of transportation. I recall they did that in Chicago with what we would call the junk man. They came around with horses and wagons to pick up items that could be salvaged. The city let them go until they died or closed their business. No new licenses were issued after that.
I've griped about this before and here I go again. O'Fallon is big on helping their seniors. Well, that's the hype, and some people do reach out in small ways. There was a piece of land set aside for senior housing last year, but the developer decided he was going to build something bigger and better which most seniors could not afford. This developer was from out of state and you would not believe the amount of moaning and groaning people went through because he was not a local business. He ultimately abandoned the project because he didn't want to deal with the cry babies, but today that land is sitting vacant. Any builder that attempts an assisted living project these days is likely to lose money. Seniors can't afford that kind of living. The only way it might happen is if the old folks give all their assets to the management company and thus forfeit any inheritances. There is a need for assisted living, but there is even a greater need for affordable housing that doesn't require giving healthcare to the residents. This can be done easily. Down the road a piece are two very small developments consisting of row houses. They units are very small but I don't know exactly how small. People like my wive and I could live in something under 1000 sq ft because our needs are not that great. I see small compact housing as one solution to affordable housing. It blows away the American dream idea, but I think that concept has been dead for a long long time already.
I know people who drive automobiles in the inner cities and refuse to fly in an airplane. Their excuse is the same as your grandpa espoused; humans were not meant to fly. Pointing to statistics about safety in the air vs safety on the ground is like debating climate change. Nobody is going to change their mind under any circumstance. Well, I'm guessing your grandpa had no reason to fly even if he favored the idea. I do think the Kirkwood coppers, however, should have given him a break and "grandfathered in" his birth right to use horse and carriage as a means of transportation. I recall they did that in Chicago with what we would call the junk man. They came around with horses and wagons to pick up items that could be salvaged. The city let them go until they died or closed their business. No new licenses were issued after that.
I've griped about this before and here I go again. O'Fallon is big on helping their seniors. Well, that's the hype, and some people do reach out in small ways. There was a piece of land set aside for senior housing last year, but the developer decided he was going to build something bigger and better which most seniors could not afford. This developer was from out of state and you would not believe the amount of moaning and groaning people went through because he was not a local business. He ultimately abandoned the project because he didn't want to deal with the cry babies, but today that land is sitting vacant. Any builder that attempts an assisted living project these days is likely to lose money. Seniors can't afford that kind of living. The only way it might happen is if the old folks give all their assets to the management company and thus forfeit any inheritances. There is a need for assisted living, but there is even a greater need for affordable housing that doesn't require giving healthcare to the residents. This can be done easily. Down the road a piece are two very small developments consisting of row houses. They units are very small but I don't know exactly how small. People like my wive and I could live in something under 1000 sq ft because our needs are not that great. I see small compact housing as one solution to affordable housing. It blows away the American dream idea, but I think that concept has been dead for a long long time already.
Re: Vertical Clouds
I do get a kick out of reading how much CO2 us humans are supposed to be creating, especially when it is compared alongside the amount of CO2 not being removed due to many forest fires, and the amount of CO2 added by volcano's and other natural phenomena. I take it with a grain of salt, just like I did the Ozone Scare Hoax the government used to add more bans, licenses, fees, penalties, and taxes. The Ozone Layer has remained unchanged, but ground level ozone from the sudden ban sure increased exponentially. Mother Nature has been taking care of herself for billions of years, but she doesn't make changes fast lie some poly-Tick-ians do, and upset her apple cart.
I think what irked grandpa about not being able to take his horse and wagon into town to shop, was the fact we had so many Amish families already doing the same thing. They just chose a different route than grandpa did, and they had their special places to park also, hi hi. Not grandpa, he went the same way he would go in a car, right through town on the main drag, hi hi.
Many long years ago, with an architect, we sat down and designed an entire small subdivision of homes with the ability to grow, and for that purpose, the foundation would be laid, but only half of the house built, the county didn't like that, so we redesigned with 2/3 of the house built, so they would have been like 750 sq. ft., which could grow to 1,175 sq. ft.
At that time, the smallest house allowed to be built was 1,200 sq. ft. in an area that already had over 100 houses of 650 to 750 sq. ft., so we would not have looked out of place. These would have been individual houses, each on a 3/8ths acre lot.
After we got turned down so many times, we gave up on the project and sold that parcel of land to another developer who guess what, got a permit to build multi-family housing with only like 450 sq. ft. houses, but they were actually like a quadraplex, four houses together with a single entrance so they looked like a single home. The backs of the houses did have four separate entrances, and parking was behind each unit. So from the street, they looked like a 1,700 sq. ft. house.
And shortly after that a whole bunch of Condo's went in right behind them.
I remember when Des Peres had a minimum size house of 850 sq. ft., then they upped that to 1,000 sq. ft., and a few years after that to 1,200 sq. ft. minimum size to build a house. Heaven only knows what it is there now.
My house in Creve Coeur was considered a 1,250 sq. ft. house, however, the roof covered 1,600 sq. ft. making a carport.
About 10 years after I was in that house, the minimum building size for a new house in Creve Coeur was 1,750 sq. ft.
They just don't want starter homes there, which forces folks to live in apartments.
I think what irked grandpa about not being able to take his horse and wagon into town to shop, was the fact we had so many Amish families already doing the same thing. They just chose a different route than grandpa did, and they had their special places to park also, hi hi. Not grandpa, he went the same way he would go in a car, right through town on the main drag, hi hi.
Many long years ago, with an architect, we sat down and designed an entire small subdivision of homes with the ability to grow, and for that purpose, the foundation would be laid, but only half of the house built, the county didn't like that, so we redesigned with 2/3 of the house built, so they would have been like 750 sq. ft., which could grow to 1,175 sq. ft.
At that time, the smallest house allowed to be built was 1,200 sq. ft. in an area that already had over 100 houses of 650 to 750 sq. ft., so we would not have looked out of place. These would have been individual houses, each on a 3/8ths acre lot.
After we got turned down so many times, we gave up on the project and sold that parcel of land to another developer who guess what, got a permit to build multi-family housing with only like 450 sq. ft. houses, but they were actually like a quadraplex, four houses together with a single entrance so they looked like a single home. The backs of the houses did have four separate entrances, and parking was behind each unit. So from the street, they looked like a 1,700 sq. ft. house.
And shortly after that a whole bunch of Condo's went in right behind them.
I remember when Des Peres had a minimum size house of 850 sq. ft., then they upped that to 1,000 sq. ft., and a few years after that to 1,200 sq. ft. minimum size to build a house. Heaven only knows what it is there now.
My house in Creve Coeur was considered a 1,250 sq. ft. house, however, the roof covered 1,600 sq. ft. making a carport.
About 10 years after I was in that house, the minimum building size for a new house in Creve Coeur was 1,750 sq. ft.
They just don't want starter homes there, which forces folks to live in apartments.
Re: Vertical Clouds
Perhaps you have heard of tiny homes. The concept is to build homes under 600 sq ft, but in practice most of them come in under 300 sq ft of living space. I'v'e seen the interior of a few on television and they appear to be comfortable if you don't mind living in a telephone booth. The show I was watching was about a small community for veterans who needed help. The neighborhood was as beautiful as ... my own street where everything is neat, clean, and identical. The only difference is my street would not allow tiny homes to be built thereupon. I'd guess the going price for building houses today is something like $200/sq ft so that the largest tiny house would come in around $12,000. OK, so double that and you still have a bargain house. Of course you could not raise six children in a place like that, but it would be ideal for young folks just starting out or older folks who can't afford anything else.
Those old junk man wagons that roamed the city of Chicago were pretty much confined to the alleys. That's where people put all their junk and it also was not too offensive when the horse made a deposit on the pavement. Those horse droppings in heavy traffic could be a problem, but even so, as I recall, they disappeared rather quickly.
And, just in case you missed it, the people wanting to lower greenhouse emissions are familiar with the natural sources of CO2. That's not what the concern is all about.
Those old junk man wagons that roamed the city of Chicago were pretty much confined to the alleys. That's where people put all their junk and it also was not too offensive when the horse made a deposit on the pavement. Those horse droppings in heavy traffic could be a problem, but even so, as I recall, they disappeared rather quickly.
And, just in case you missed it, the people wanting to lower greenhouse emissions are familiar with the natural sources of CO2. That's not what the concern is all about.
Re: Vertical Clouds
In order to build a tiny home, an area would have to be rezoned to allow it, and that is nearly impossible to do in most counties, unless they are like really rural or in undesirable areas of a county they are trying to clean up.
When I was buying and renovating homes down inside the city limits of St. Louis City, the way it is laid out, the back of nearly every house has an Alley Easement, where you keep your trash cans, and where your garage opens up to if you have a garage, and most don't, so they park on the street in front. Notice I said Alley Easement, not Alley. Every single one of the 21 some odd homes I bought in the city, the property line goes to the center of Alley Easement, and the owner of the property is liable for keeping the Alley clean on their property. And when repairs are needed, the cost is divided up by all the houses using that alley, in most cases. But in a few, the bill falls directly on the homeowner where that section of the alley needs repair. For example, we had to keep the weeds out of the brick alleys, and if we let a tree take root back their and it dislodged the bricks, we had to pay to have the tree removed and the bricks reseated or replaced.
Every house I bought in the city, one of the first things I did after I secured the house itself, was to use a wire brush attachment on a curb trimmer to clean out all the cracks, and I filled them with rock salt first. Then about the time I was done with the house, I would add crack filler in the cracks between the bricks. And on some I even cleaned the bricks with muriatic acid after running the wire wheel in the cracks. Made my little half of the alley look new again, and probably made the neighbors mad at the same time, hi hi.
At one house, there was an apartment building on the corner and they put their dumpsters right next to my property and when they overfilled the dumpsters, lots of garbage ended up on my part of the alley, and of course I got fined for it a couple of times. Talked to a lawyer who called the some big shot at the city and about a week later, the garbage bins for the apartment complex were moved over to their property at least 20 feet away from my little spot of alley to care for.
Those who want to eliminate CO2 I don't think they realize that doing so would eliminate all life on planet earth.
When I was buying and renovating homes down inside the city limits of St. Louis City, the way it is laid out, the back of nearly every house has an Alley Easement, where you keep your trash cans, and where your garage opens up to if you have a garage, and most don't, so they park on the street in front. Notice I said Alley Easement, not Alley. Every single one of the 21 some odd homes I bought in the city, the property line goes to the center of Alley Easement, and the owner of the property is liable for keeping the Alley clean on their property. And when repairs are needed, the cost is divided up by all the houses using that alley, in most cases. But in a few, the bill falls directly on the homeowner where that section of the alley needs repair. For example, we had to keep the weeds out of the brick alleys, and if we let a tree take root back their and it dislodged the bricks, we had to pay to have the tree removed and the bricks reseated or replaced.
Every house I bought in the city, one of the first things I did after I secured the house itself, was to use a wire brush attachment on a curb trimmer to clean out all the cracks, and I filled them with rock salt first. Then about the time I was done with the house, I would add crack filler in the cracks between the bricks. And on some I even cleaned the bricks with muriatic acid after running the wire wheel in the cracks. Made my little half of the alley look new again, and probably made the neighbors mad at the same time, hi hi.
At one house, there was an apartment building on the corner and they put their dumpsters right next to my property and when they overfilled the dumpsters, lots of garbage ended up on my part of the alley, and of course I got fined for it a couple of times. Talked to a lawyer who called the some big shot at the city and about a week later, the garbage bins for the apartment complex were moved over to their property at least 20 feet away from my little spot of alley to care for.
Those who want to eliminate CO2 I don't think they realize that doing so would eliminate all life on planet earth.
Re: Vertical Clouds
The alleys in Chicago were not brick, at least not in the neighborhood in which I lived. They were poured concrete and I don't think it was an easement, although it could have been. I was too young to even know what that meant when we had an alley. The backs of the houses had garages as you point out and those that didn't had fences. They all went up to the pavement edge and I can't recall anybody caring about the center of the alley. My uncle owned the property so that I don't know how it was taxed or what his liabilities were. The city only came by to pick up the garbage in those days, and the trash containers were made of cement with metal access doors. The door on top is where we tossed our garbage - not in plastic bags either. Plastic bags were not yet available. The trash collection was a crew of men with shovels who opened the bottom access door to shovel out the garbage and toss it into the truck. Can you imagine doing that on a hot summer day for 8 hours? ewwww
Now that you mention it, I don't know of any environmentalists who want to totally eliminate CO2. Maybe I'm missing something but I believe they simply want to control the contributions made by human activity.
Now that you mention it, I don't know of any environmentalists who want to totally eliminate CO2. Maybe I'm missing something but I believe they simply want to control the contributions made by human activity.
Re: Vertical Clouds
It is possible that not all the areas of the city did the homeowners have the alley as part of an easement. It was just the properties I owned did I know were that way. I do know that in some areas of the city, the alleys were either concrete or blacktop, and the city maintained those, and often put up permanent barricades so people couldn't use them as thoroughfares about once every 3 or 4 blocks. They did this on some of the residential streets as well or made every other block one way in the opposite direction of the block before it.
When my aunt and uncle lived in downtown Denver, CO, All of their alleys were one way and only wide enough for a garbage truck with a side lift. This may sound crazy, but after they started forced recycling there, they installed different color trash bins side by side. Each bin served 8 houses, and were centered in the block. And they each had this strange type of lock on them. I'm sure this was to keep people from stealing the recyclables. There was a bin for Glass, one for Metal, and one for yard waste which included twigs, branches, and even solid construction lumber like studs, but no plywood, and no nails, hi hi.
They didn't have plastic or aluminum cans back then. But the keys for the recyclable containers were truly weird to say the least. They didn't look like a key either, but they all had a round shaft with a steel plate at the end of different designs.
You could not throw any metal in the garbage bins, or the glass bins, no metal lids or caps. You could put soiled paper, like meat came wrapped in, in the garbage bins, but no newspapers or office papers or junk mail, hi hi. They also did not have a bin for paper items. I do know my uncle burned his paper waste in his fireplace, which I imagine many folks did back then.
Every time I see someone make a post about Carbon Taxes, I have to chime in and remind them that Carbon is an Element which can neither be created nor destroyed. So it would be impossible to Tax an increase or decrease in Carbon.
I'm sure you've walked around in a Forest at one time or another.
Ever notice how much better you feel, and breathe easier?
This is because the CO2 is reduced and the O2 is much higher.
But you get into an urban area like downtown in a city, the O2 level is low and the CO2 is high, along with all the other pollutants in the air down in a city location. Why? They got rid of all the trees!
How about if we begin to TAX the Cities who don't have enough Trees to handle the CO2 and see how that goes over!
Every Home should have at least two medium to large size trees for each person who lives in that home. That alone would handle more than the CO2 they generate. Now let's add two more large trees for each car they own!
Now, let's impose those same restrictions on apartment complexes and businesses, especially those in the city, hi hi.
When my aunt and uncle lived in downtown Denver, CO, All of their alleys were one way and only wide enough for a garbage truck with a side lift. This may sound crazy, but after they started forced recycling there, they installed different color trash bins side by side. Each bin served 8 houses, and were centered in the block. And they each had this strange type of lock on them. I'm sure this was to keep people from stealing the recyclables. There was a bin for Glass, one for Metal, and one for yard waste which included twigs, branches, and even solid construction lumber like studs, but no plywood, and no nails, hi hi.
They didn't have plastic or aluminum cans back then. But the keys for the recyclable containers were truly weird to say the least. They didn't look like a key either, but they all had a round shaft with a steel plate at the end of different designs.
You could not throw any metal in the garbage bins, or the glass bins, no metal lids or caps. You could put soiled paper, like meat came wrapped in, in the garbage bins, but no newspapers or office papers or junk mail, hi hi. They also did not have a bin for paper items. I do know my uncle burned his paper waste in his fireplace, which I imagine many folks did back then.
Every time I see someone make a post about Carbon Taxes, I have to chime in and remind them that Carbon is an Element which can neither be created nor destroyed. So it would be impossible to Tax an increase or decrease in Carbon.
I'm sure you've walked around in a Forest at one time or another.
Ever notice how much better you feel, and breathe easier?
This is because the CO2 is reduced and the O2 is much higher.
But you get into an urban area like downtown in a city, the O2 level is low and the CO2 is high, along with all the other pollutants in the air down in a city location. Why? They got rid of all the trees!
How about if we begin to TAX the Cities who don't have enough Trees to handle the CO2 and see how that goes over!
Every Home should have at least two medium to large size trees for each person who lives in that home. That alone would handle more than the CO2 they generate. Now let's add two more large trees for each car they own!
Now, let's impose those same restrictions on apartment complexes and businesses, especially those in the city, hi hi.
Re: Vertical Clouds
Your narrative about how helpful trees are makes me grit my teeth. My previous house had a small forest with lots of trees attached. I had enough to pay all those carbon taxes you want to pay off in trees and then some. I loved that part of my property and spent a lot of time back there. However, it is because of those very trees that my wife could not breath properly and we had to move out of that wooded environment to save her life. Those wonderful O2 producing trees were the home of fungus, mold, spores, pollen and billions of other things that set off allergies in uncontrollable spasms.
Trees be damned as far as clean air is concerned. All of what you claim is true but it ignores the fact that industrialization on a global scale is upsetting the lovely balance that Mother Nature has created in perfect form. Don't you think it would be a good idea if we did something to lower the negative effects of our human activity so that good ol' Ma Nature can do her thing in peace? Of course you don't. That would have a negative effect on the military industrial complex and other political agendas.
Trees be damned as far as clean air is concerned. All of what you claim is true but it ignores the fact that industrialization on a global scale is upsetting the lovely balance that Mother Nature has created in perfect form. Don't you think it would be a good idea if we did something to lower the negative effects of our human activity so that good ol' Ma Nature can do her thing in peace? Of course you don't. That would have a negative effect on the military industrial complex and other political agendas.
Re: Vertical Clouds
Sorry about your wife, but you do realize the gene pool is breaking down and that is why we have so many people with allergies and those who are allergic to everything outdoors, and sometimes indoors. My wife has a few allergies also and suffers during the pollen seasons.
I do agree we need to lower the amounts of pollution being spewed into our atmosphere, and we can start with stopping all the fireworks shows at every touchdown at the football games. Heck, closing down those games entirely wouldn't be a bad idea due to the traffic and pollution that causes.
Heck, we wouldn't need cars if we had community shopping like in the old days, and if we had a viable and feasible form of rapid transit for those working in the cities, and a way to get to those terminals without driving there.
Maybe we could get robots to do all of our work for us, so we could just stay home and enjoy ourselves all day.
I buy nearly everything on-line these days, so the one truck that comes down our street has several stops besides mine, instead of just one or two houses on my street each day. And many things they switch over to the post office to deliver.
We have about 300 years of fossil fuels left we can use, and I'm sure within the next 25 or so years, we will not be using hardly any of it anymore, just electrical power plants like happened with coal when everyone switched over to oil and then gas. And they do use scrubbers so the coal does not pollute like it once did.
I do agree we need to lower the amounts of pollution being spewed into our atmosphere, and we can start with stopping all the fireworks shows at every touchdown at the football games. Heck, closing down those games entirely wouldn't be a bad idea due to the traffic and pollution that causes.
Heck, we wouldn't need cars if we had community shopping like in the old days, and if we had a viable and feasible form of rapid transit for those working in the cities, and a way to get to those terminals without driving there.
Maybe we could get robots to do all of our work for us, so we could just stay home and enjoy ourselves all day.
I buy nearly everything on-line these days, so the one truck that comes down our street has several stops besides mine, instead of just one or two houses on my street each day. And many things they switch over to the post office to deliver.
We have about 300 years of fossil fuels left we can use, and I'm sure within the next 25 or so years, we will not be using hardly any of it anymore, just electrical power plants like happened with coal when everyone switched over to oil and then gas. And they do use scrubbers so the coal does not pollute like it once did.
Re: Vertical Clouds
Going back not too many years I recall the time when China, that place with 1.4 BILLLION citizens, was a fairly backward country. They were considered backward when compared to the West, i.e. the USA and Europe. People there didn't have all the conveniences we enjoyed and while automobiles in China were not unheard of they certainly were a lot rarer than they are here. My perception was that those Chinese people lived a lot like the settlers did in the early days of our country. You would think from an environmental point of view they would be doing very well. The truth is that good ol' primitive China was the world's highest contributor to atmospheric pollution due primarily to all the coal they burned. In recent years the communist government has taken a stand to improve the air quality and their environment in general. Simultaneously they are becoming more industrialized and, unfortunately, more militarized. In other words they are improving their standard of living using us Westerners as a role model. It remains to be seen if they can keep from contaminating the environment, but they do deserve some Kudos for being willing to try.
I suppose there are people who are predisposed to allergies and thereby victims of heredity. Most of the people I know do not have a family history of allergies, but it could be that they are simply unaware. Allergic reactions are due to the immune system mistaking something normal for being the enemy. It's a learned response from what I understand as opposed to being born with something inherited from an ancestor. I don' think this type of illness is indicative of a failed gene pool, but it does suggests a failure of the immune system. I attribute that to the decrease in the quality of air in our environment, all of which makes me want to think Green.
I suppose there are people who are predisposed to allergies and thereby victims of heredity. Most of the people I know do not have a family history of allergies, but it could be that they are simply unaware. Allergic reactions are due to the immune system mistaking something normal for being the enemy. It's a learned response from what I understand as opposed to being born with something inherited from an ancestor. I don' think this type of illness is indicative of a failed gene pool, but it does suggests a failure of the immune system. I attribute that to the decrease in the quality of air in our environment, all of which makes me want to think Green.
Re: Vertical Clouds
The Chinese government has so much money, they build these fancy new cities, complete with roads, high-rise buildings, stores and malls, that look great in pictures as showing how modern and upscale they are.
Unfortunately, all those new cities, buildings, and stores are empty, and the streets and parking garages are not used.
And what is strange is they keep building them.
Adding all this unused infrastructure is a major source of pollution as well.
You could be onto something there, and I understand why also.
Even in the flower business, folks who are not allergic to something before hand, if they are around the same allergen for long enough, they will become allergic to it, when the amount in their system crosses a certain threshold. Once that happens, you are then forever plagued with the allergy, even when you are no longer around the thing that set it off in the first place.
Once we learned this could happen, we have taken measures to protect ourselves from getting an overdose of that allergen before it becomes a problem.
From stripping the leaves off cut mums by hand for many years, like my dad, I wound up with a hand problem. Even staying away from stripping mums the hand problem persists for like ten years before it finally clears mostly up. But if you even handle some mums it flares back up again for about a year or so.
Unfortunately, all those new cities, buildings, and stores are empty, and the streets and parking garages are not used.
And what is strange is they keep building them.
Adding all this unused infrastructure is a major source of pollution as well.
You could be onto something there, and I understand why also.
Even in the flower business, folks who are not allergic to something before hand, if they are around the same allergen for long enough, they will become allergic to it, when the amount in their system crosses a certain threshold. Once that happens, you are then forever plagued with the allergy, even when you are no longer around the thing that set it off in the first place.
Once we learned this could happen, we have taken measures to protect ourselves from getting an overdose of that allergen before it becomes a problem.
From stripping the leaves off cut mums by hand for many years, like my dad, I wound up with a hand problem. Even staying away from stripping mums the hand problem persists for like ten years before it finally clears mostly up. But if you even handle some mums it flares back up again for about a year or so.
Re: Vertical Clouds
I never thought about people who work in greenhouses developing allergies. But, yes, that is the ideal battleground for those allergens. There are a lot of toxins in our environment and many of them are lethal. I'm thinking of people who can build up an immunity to them by ingesting a little bit at a time. I've read stories about people who drink snake venom in controlled quantities over extended periods of time so that their body can develop an immunity to snake bites. Apparently not everybody can do that, but the human body is built so that it can fight off poisons.
Which reminds me of the time I contaminated myself with poison ivy. I didn't recognize it at the time so that I was hand picking it from the floor of my forest and shredding it in the chipper machine. In a way I was fortunate in that only my arms became infected and a few spots on other parts of my body. It took a long time for those blisters on my arms to heal and to this day there are what looks like faint circular scars on my arms. I'm certain those marks are the left overs of the poison ivy attack. That all happened at least ten years ago, but just this past year some of those left over marks started itching again. I don't do any gardening around here, and there is nothing that looks like poison ivy on my property. So, I'm a bit puzzled over why those marks decided to start itching again. It's not severe at all as was the initial event, but it is ominous that the itching is at the same exact site as the original infection. The poison in the ivy is actually an oil and I suppose it can be absorbed by the skin. But after ten years I'd think all remnants of the original oils would be gone.
Which reminds me of the time I contaminated myself with poison ivy. I didn't recognize it at the time so that I was hand picking it from the floor of my forest and shredding it in the chipper machine. In a way I was fortunate in that only my arms became infected and a few spots on other parts of my body. It took a long time for those blisters on my arms to heal and to this day there are what looks like faint circular scars on my arms. I'm certain those marks are the left overs of the poison ivy attack. That all happened at least ten years ago, but just this past year some of those left over marks started itching again. I don't do any gardening around here, and there is nothing that looks like poison ivy on my property. So, I'm a bit puzzled over why those marks decided to start itching again. It's not severe at all as was the initial event, but it is ominous that the itching is at the same exact site as the original infection. The poison in the ivy is actually an oil and I suppose it can be absorbed by the skin. But after ten years I'd think all remnants of the original oils would be gone.
Last edited by yogi on 15 Dec 2022, 22:05, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Vertical Clouds
I have a spot on each of my hands, right where your thumb would sit if you laid it on your first finger, that first bone past the knuckle. Once a year, for over 20 years after I quite handling the item that caused it, I would get water blisters there on each hand. It came directly from the plastic material used to make the plastic bottles I had to pick up several times a day. Think about the original 2-liter soda bottle design with the large flat ring at just under the top. I was pulling these unopened, heavy bottles out of the crates at the rate of about 100 or more per day, using both hands. That ring at the top helped you hold onto them and that ring touched your finger on the first joint. And when you flipped them upside down on the feed rack it put a lot of pressure on your finger in that one spot.
After another 10 years or so have passed those water blisters are now like a couple of years apart instead of every year, or less than a year early on. But if I start picking up those kinds of bottles again, it comes back right away.
After another 10 years or so have passed those water blisters are now like a couple of years apart instead of every year, or less than a year early on. But if I start picking up those kinds of bottles again, it comes back right away.
Re: Vertical Clouds
Your story about the plastic rings affecting your finger joint is classic. It seems as if you developed an allergic reaction to the plastic tab. Touch the tabs and your finger reacts. The poison ivy incident I experienced was a one time event. I admit that I probably over dosed with poison ivy oils, and there is a reason why it is called poison. However, since that one time I've not come close to anything (that I know of) in the ivy family of plants. So why I would have a reaction ten years later is a mystery to me. Then, too, it could have been something entirely different. It's just very suspicious that the itching occurred at the exact site of the original infection.
Re: Vertical Clouds
My uncle could pull poison ivy plants all day and not get a rash.
He attributes that to when he was a kid and all he had to do was be anywhere near a poison ivy and he would get it bad.
He also once got it when someone was burning a brush pile, so the smoke may have had poison ivy oils in it.
But about the time he turned 19 or 20 he found out he no longer could get it, or so he thought.
Around the age of 45 or 50 he got a really bad case of it that put him in the hospital, and what surprised him is he lived in an area where no poison ivy is at all. So he wondered what caused it.
I read an article once that talked about things that give us rashes, blisters, and other problems.
He said our immune level to things is set at a specific level for each person. Some people it is high, and some low.
You can be around a contaminant for short periods of time and they won't affect you. Yet!
If you think of your immune system as a bucket with a nail hole in the bottom, if you are around a contaminant, then that is like pouring water into the bucket. If the bucket holds 5 gallons and you only dumped in 1 gallon, it will slowly drain out, so you never seem to get the allergy or reaction to the contaminant.
However, if you are exposed to it more often, so that your bucket is near full, like at 4-1/2 gallons, and you add another gallon to that bucket, it overflows, and that is when you get the allergic reaction to the contaminant. When this happens, it also makes the drain hole a little bit smaller each time, so it is easier for the bucket to fill up faster.
He attributes that to when he was a kid and all he had to do was be anywhere near a poison ivy and he would get it bad.
He also once got it when someone was burning a brush pile, so the smoke may have had poison ivy oils in it.
But about the time he turned 19 or 20 he found out he no longer could get it, or so he thought.
Around the age of 45 or 50 he got a really bad case of it that put him in the hospital, and what surprised him is he lived in an area where no poison ivy is at all. So he wondered what caused it.
I read an article once that talked about things that give us rashes, blisters, and other problems.
He said our immune level to things is set at a specific level for each person. Some people it is high, and some low.
You can be around a contaminant for short periods of time and they won't affect you. Yet!
If you think of your immune system as a bucket with a nail hole in the bottom, if you are around a contaminant, then that is like pouring water into the bucket. If the bucket holds 5 gallons and you only dumped in 1 gallon, it will slowly drain out, so you never seem to get the allergy or reaction to the contaminant.
However, if you are exposed to it more often, so that your bucket is near full, like at 4-1/2 gallons, and you add another gallon to that bucket, it overflows, and that is when you get the allergic reaction to the contaminant. When this happens, it also makes the drain hole a little bit smaller each time, so it is easier for the bucket to fill up faster.
Re: Vertical Clouds
Your bucket analogy for the way our immune system works is fair. Each human has a different capacity to fight off invasive diseases and chemicals. I really don't know if that level of resistance changes, but there apparently is some latent immunity that never gets activated if you are not exposed to the allergen. I see it as a cause and effect relationship. Apply an irritant (the cause) and the body immune system reacts (the effect). The reaction can take on different forms, such as fevers, blisters, or rashes, but I would not expect any of those symptoms without some kind of stimulus.
I don't know enough about dermatology to be certain of how it works, but I have a suspicion that the skin contains a storage system that normally is not reachable by our immune system. Put some poison ivy oil on your arm and nothing happens until it gets absorbed deep enough to cause a reaction. Being oil it is difficult to wash off and poison ivy has a very long shelf life so that it does not break down very quickly either. So, I think the immune system reacts to the irritant only as long as the irritant is present. The poison ivy has to be washed off over a long period of time or absorbed into the system and eliminated. I think that both of those things actually happen. However, I also think about tattoos where the ink stays in the skin forever. Normally that ink does not trigger an allergic reaction because it does not go deep enough for the immune system to recognize as something foreign to the body. So, perhaps poison ivy oil can do something similar. Maybe it can stay in place for a long time with no reaction due to a person's thick skin. Should the skin thin out, such as might happen with old age, then the antigen may seep into the area where the immune system operates. In my case it seems wildly difficult for the process to go on for ten years. However, if the skin can somehow store allergens isolated from the blood carrying immunity cells, then time is not a factor. The immune system does remember things and maintains an ability to keep fighting off the known poisons. It may even get better at it over time. But, as noted, there is a limit.
I don't know enough about dermatology to be certain of how it works, but I have a suspicion that the skin contains a storage system that normally is not reachable by our immune system. Put some poison ivy oil on your arm and nothing happens until it gets absorbed deep enough to cause a reaction. Being oil it is difficult to wash off and poison ivy has a very long shelf life so that it does not break down very quickly either. So, I think the immune system reacts to the irritant only as long as the irritant is present. The poison ivy has to be washed off over a long period of time or absorbed into the system and eliminated. I think that both of those things actually happen. However, I also think about tattoos where the ink stays in the skin forever. Normally that ink does not trigger an allergic reaction because it does not go deep enough for the immune system to recognize as something foreign to the body. So, perhaps poison ivy oil can do something similar. Maybe it can stay in place for a long time with no reaction due to a person's thick skin. Should the skin thin out, such as might happen with old age, then the antigen may seep into the area where the immune system operates. In my case it seems wildly difficult for the process to go on for ten years. However, if the skin can somehow store allergens isolated from the blood carrying immunity cells, then time is not a factor. The immune system does remember things and maintains an ability to keep fighting off the known poisons. It may even get better at it over time. But, as noted, there is a limit.
Re: Vertical Clouds
Debi reminded me of something the last time my two fingers broke out in their water blisters.
I was talking about it to here a few times, and she thinks she knows why.
The last time my fingers broke out, it was when we went to a reception at her old church.
Their soda was in 2-liter bottles and ended up pouring about 30 to 40 cups of soda as the guests came in the door.
I didn't pay that much attention, but the new smaller ring at the top just happen to hit my fingers in the same spot the old large ring on the bottles I handled at work.
It was a couple of days later when all the water blisters appeared again.
I guess from this it makes sense that once you crossed your threshold the hole in the bucket keeps getting smaller each time.
I've never been allergic to anything myself, other than poisons.
But Debi has all kinds of allergies. And the older she gets, the more they seem to attack her.
And since moving down south here, I may be getting allergic to some type of pollen in the air in the late spring.
I was talking about it to here a few times, and she thinks she knows why.
The last time my fingers broke out, it was when we went to a reception at her old church.
Their soda was in 2-liter bottles and ended up pouring about 30 to 40 cups of soda as the guests came in the door.
I didn't pay that much attention, but the new smaller ring at the top just happen to hit my fingers in the same spot the old large ring on the bottles I handled at work.
It was a couple of days later when all the water blisters appeared again.
I guess from this it makes sense that once you crossed your threshold the hole in the bucket keeps getting smaller each time.
I've never been allergic to anything myself, other than poisons.
But Debi has all kinds of allergies. And the older she gets, the more they seem to attack her.
And since moving down south here, I may be getting allergic to some type of pollen in the air in the late spring.
Re: Vertical Clouds
Interesting comments you make about allergies. Something very suspicious is going on down south here. I lived 72 years up by Chicago without any significant allergic reactions, or at least none that could not be explained. Now that I've been living here seven+ years, my sinuses are objecting to the atmosphere. It has been getting worse over the years too. We moved here to get away from the allergen producing forest we had in our back yard. It seemed to be causing a lot of trouble for my wife of many years. She did get treatments before we left and the first few years in Missouri were fine for her. But during the last years she had to go for treatments once again. Add to that the vertigo problem and we are becoming very concerned about what's in the air down south here. Now, you tell me you have experienced something similar. I would be inclined to think there is a problem specific to Missouri, but you lived here most of your life. All you did was go further south. Strange. Very strange.
Now that I think about it, I will tell you of something that will make your heart feel warm. As I noted, my wife developed a bad case of vertigo. We tried many treatments and some were effective up to a point. A trip to the hospital and several doctors later could not come up with a cure, or even a temporary solution. The dizziness was accompanied by nausea which affected her eating and sleeping routines. It was not looking good. Then, and I don't know where, my wife found some information suggesting that ginger tea would help with the vertigo. Oh, and she also had to eliminate all sources of caffeine, which meant a stop to drinking coffee. It only took a couple days after she made the switch for her to feel better. She has not had a cup of coffee or regular tea for nearly a month now, and also no dizziness nor nausea.
Well, before you gloat too much, I will quickly add that I down about four cups of coffee every day. No nausea or dizziness has plagued me the way it has my wife. I'm not sure anymore about the effects of caffeine because I have read an equal amount of literature saying it's bad and it's good. There seems to be no consensus. One encouraging article says not to drink more than 4 cups a day, but up to that amount will increase longevity. Well, I'm at 78 right now. We'll see what I am doing ten years from today.
Now that I think about it, I will tell you of something that will make your heart feel warm. As I noted, my wife developed a bad case of vertigo. We tried many treatments and some were effective up to a point. A trip to the hospital and several doctors later could not come up with a cure, or even a temporary solution. The dizziness was accompanied by nausea which affected her eating and sleeping routines. It was not looking good. Then, and I don't know where, my wife found some information suggesting that ginger tea would help with the vertigo. Oh, and she also had to eliminate all sources of caffeine, which meant a stop to drinking coffee. It only took a couple days after she made the switch for her to feel better. She has not had a cup of coffee or regular tea for nearly a month now, and also no dizziness nor nausea.
Well, before you gloat too much, I will quickly add that I down about four cups of coffee every day. No nausea or dizziness has plagued me the way it has my wife. I'm not sure anymore about the effects of caffeine because I have read an equal amount of literature saying it's bad and it's good. There seems to be no consensus. One encouraging article says not to drink more than 4 cups a day, but up to that amount will increase longevity. Well, I'm at 78 right now. We'll see what I am doing ten years from today.
Re: Vertical Clouds
I think some allergies come about due to our increasing ages. Perhaps our immune system is wearing out too?
It's not JUST the Caffeine in Coffee that is bad for you. It IS the combination of Caffeine and Tannin which is found in both Coffee and Tea. The Caffeine/Tannin Blend is like Caffeine on Steroids.
This is why over 85% of the adult population in the U.S. of A. is heavily addicted to this Speed Drug called Coffee.
It is nothing at all like the Caffeine in Soda. You WILL have withdrawal symptoms when you stop drinking Coffee, but not when you stop drinking Soda, or switch to Caffeine free Soda.
Many of the places I have worked, the addicted employees could not even function or get going until they had their raft of morning fixes of the speed drug. I've also worked at a place where no drinks of any kind were allowed in the working areas, and ironically, production in those areas was higher than in the areas where a coffee urn was always brewing away.
Personally, I don't drink alcohol, or coffee. Unfortunately, I smoked like a stoker furnace my entire life. But I know about the time I destroyed my lungs. It was after I moved down here and built my nice little airtight office. I ended up ruining everything in my office from the tars from the cigarettes getting into everything and gumming up things like printers, and causing dirt to stick to the cooling fins in the computers, besides coating the walls, and furniture with a layer of brown gunk, and of course, my lungs at the same time. That was the turning point on my breathing, but by then it was too late to do anything about it. I did install an exhaust system that kept any second hand smoke out of the air. And third hand smoke is supposed to be fairly clean to not cause problems. Getting rid of second hand smoke meant no more gunk in the air in my office, so everything stays clean now. But the room itself is still gunk covered from before, hi hi.
It's not JUST the Caffeine in Coffee that is bad for you. It IS the combination of Caffeine and Tannin which is found in both Coffee and Tea. The Caffeine/Tannin Blend is like Caffeine on Steroids.
This is why over 85% of the adult population in the U.S. of A. is heavily addicted to this Speed Drug called Coffee.
It is nothing at all like the Caffeine in Soda. You WILL have withdrawal symptoms when you stop drinking Coffee, but not when you stop drinking Soda, or switch to Caffeine free Soda.
Many of the places I have worked, the addicted employees could not even function or get going until they had their raft of morning fixes of the speed drug. I've also worked at a place where no drinks of any kind were allowed in the working areas, and ironically, production in those areas was higher than in the areas where a coffee urn was always brewing away.
Personally, I don't drink alcohol, or coffee. Unfortunately, I smoked like a stoker furnace my entire life. But I know about the time I destroyed my lungs. It was after I moved down here and built my nice little airtight office. I ended up ruining everything in my office from the tars from the cigarettes getting into everything and gumming up things like printers, and causing dirt to stick to the cooling fins in the computers, besides coating the walls, and furniture with a layer of brown gunk, and of course, my lungs at the same time. That was the turning point on my breathing, but by then it was too late to do anything about it. I did install an exhaust system that kept any second hand smoke out of the air. And third hand smoke is supposed to be fairly clean to not cause problems. Getting rid of second hand smoke meant no more gunk in the air in my office, so everything stays clean now. But the room itself is still gunk covered from before, hi hi.
Re: Vertical Clouds
I suppose the level of tolerance for toxic chemicals varies from person to person much the same as the capacity of their immune response varies. In fact the two may be related. I've met people at work who did seem to need a cup of coffee to "get started" in the morning, but those types were in the minority. Well more than half my fellow co-workers would drink coffee and/or tea with a meal. Some parts of the company did not allow any food or drink in the area, generally production facilities. Offices were more liberal and some folks even ate lunch or snacks at their desks. I was on one cup a day back then and never was affected by the rules. The quality of my work didn't seem to vary when I did have coffee on my desk. But then that would be judging myself. I always got good work reviews, but I can't say how much coffee played a part in that. So, caffeine intake and the response to it varies in individual cases. Smoking, on the other hand, affects everyone the same way. That gooey tar stick to everything and everybody regardless of their immune system. To be honest I don't know if smoking causes emphysema. However, all the people I know who died from emphysema were smokers. I guess that I was lucky in some respects. Smoking caused a lung infection to develop sometime in my mid forties. I was coughing up blood and the whole nine yards if distress. I quit cold turkey and never smoked anything after that incident. They say the lungs will heal after about ten years or so being smoke free. That might be true. I've not had any breathing problems since and have not been flagged for lung disorders by any doctors so far.
I could try quitting coffee just to see what happens. But then I would have literally no vices at all. Does it really matter if I have any addictions at my age is the question. Now that I think about it, my wife of many years is using marijuana in the form of a salve for her arthritis. Seems to be working fairly well. The amazing part is that it can be purchased in Missouri.
I could try quitting coffee just to see what happens. But then I would have literally no vices at all. Does it really matter if I have any addictions at my age is the question. Now that I think about it, my wife of many years is using marijuana in the form of a salve for her arthritis. Seems to be working fairly well. The amazing part is that it can be purchased in Missouri.