None of this may apply to your particular Echo system, but the extent to which those devices are vulnerable shocked me. This article talks about some recently discovered vulnerabilities, some of which Amazon already patched. It's an interesting read regardless of how safe your particular system is.
https://arstechnica.com/information-tec ... d-commands
Alexa vs Alexa
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Re: Alexa vs Alexa
Veeery Interesting article!
I guess we are good, because we have bluetooth capability turned OFF on both of our Echo devices.
But Debi's cell phone working the smart outlets through the Echo device, still has a few problems she hasn't quite figure out yet.
The Echo DOT, which is the most vulnerable, is run from an access point on the LAN in my office.
What is funny, is if we are watching TV, and an Echo commercial comes on where they use the word Alexa, the unit in our kitchen hears the wake-up word. But we have a 3 to 4 second pause before you can give a command, and on TV they give the command right away, so it doesn't do it.
I just uploaded a new upgrade to the Echo Dot about a week ago. But not until I looked up what the upgrade was for and who it was from.
One of the benefits, or nuisances, depending on how you look at it. The Echo gives me a Notification if a package was delivered to my house and at what time. But it also tells us things I could care less about. And the one with the video screen down in the kitchen always has something popping up on it no one is interested in.
I wouldn't dare link it to anything that might be problematic if it gets turned on without my knowing about it. The outlets we use are only connected to low wattage LED lighting, so no big deal that they come on.
I guess we are good, because we have bluetooth capability turned OFF on both of our Echo devices.
But Debi's cell phone working the smart outlets through the Echo device, still has a few problems she hasn't quite figure out yet.
The Echo DOT, which is the most vulnerable, is run from an access point on the LAN in my office.
What is funny, is if we are watching TV, and an Echo commercial comes on where they use the word Alexa, the unit in our kitchen hears the wake-up word. But we have a 3 to 4 second pause before you can give a command, and on TV they give the command right away, so it doesn't do it.
I just uploaded a new upgrade to the Echo Dot about a week ago. But not until I looked up what the upgrade was for and who it was from.
One of the benefits, or nuisances, depending on how you look at it. The Echo gives me a Notification if a package was delivered to my house and at what time. But it also tells us things I could care less about. And the one with the video screen down in the kitchen always has something popping up on it no one is interested in.
I wouldn't dare link it to anything that might be problematic if it gets turned on without my knowing about it. The outlets we use are only connected to low wattage LED lighting, so no big deal that they come on.
Re: Alexa vs Alexa
The article is about how Alexa can be compromised via Bluetooth. That's one way, but there are others. What I thought was absolutely an engineering flaw was the fact that apparently the Echo can give itself commands via its own speaker. Thus the fake radio broadcast becomes an attack vector. Apparently voice recognition isn't so good that it can distinguish one person's audio verses somebody else. I get the impression that all the Echo wants is the words for the commands and it doesn't (or can't) care who issues them. Your television commercials are a good example of this flaw.
I get e-mail notifications from almost every delivery via UPS or FedEx. Sometimes, and I don't know how they do this, the company I order from bypasses the delivery company tracking system. Those people may or many not give notification of delivery. The Ring security system can be integrated into the Alexa system from what I understand and that would be the perfect way to verify delivery of packages. You would have the act of delivery recorded on video which in turn can send an e-mail or jiggle the chains of a smartphone. I kind of like that concept but do not need yet another subscription service.
In any case, I'm glad you found the article interesting.
I get e-mail notifications from almost every delivery via UPS or FedEx. Sometimes, and I don't know how they do this, the company I order from bypasses the delivery company tracking system. Those people may or many not give notification of delivery. The Ring security system can be integrated into the Alexa system from what I understand and that would be the perfect way to verify delivery of packages. You would have the act of delivery recorded on video which in turn can send an e-mail or jiggle the chains of a smartphone. I kind of like that concept but do not need yet another subscription service.
In any case, I'm glad you found the article interesting.
Re: Alexa vs Alexa
Well, that is true in a way, for about a year, if my wife gave a command, it would greet her with her name, same for me. But I think some people didn't like that so the cut it out.
But you are right about it not being locked out to a specific person or persons voices. It listens only for the word Alexa to turn on.
My office Echo Dot will beep and have the yellow ring lit up. So I have to ask it what its notification is.
This way I do know a delivery has been made by Amazon, or any company who subscribes to Amazon's notification system.
But many places we buy on-line from, do not have that service from Amazon.
The Echo Show in the kitchen, often fails to show the yellow line for a notification. I don't know why though.
But it will beep Debi's Schmartz-Fone that there is a notification on Echo, and she can hit a button on her Schmartz-Fone and see what it is.
Now some places she buys from, sends a notification right to her Schmartz-Fone. Me, I usually just get an e-mail.
Yes, the article was great, good knowledge to know about.
But you are right about it not being locked out to a specific person or persons voices. It listens only for the word Alexa to turn on.
My office Echo Dot will beep and have the yellow ring lit up. So I have to ask it what its notification is.
This way I do know a delivery has been made by Amazon, or any company who subscribes to Amazon's notification system.
But many places we buy on-line from, do not have that service from Amazon.
The Echo Show in the kitchen, often fails to show the yellow line for a notification. I don't know why though.
But it will beep Debi's Schmartz-Fone that there is a notification on Echo, and she can hit a button on her Schmartz-Fone and see what it is.
Now some places she buys from, sends a notification right to her Schmartz-Fone. Me, I usually just get an e-mail.
Yes, the article was great, good knowledge to know about.
Re: Alexa vs Alexa
I believe I told you many moons ago that my wife gave me an Echo device. It came with two light bulbs if I recall correctly. Those bulbs never got unpacked. At the time I didn't like the idea of giving Amazon (or anyone else) the ability to monitor the conversations in my house. More than that I objected to the fact that it required a continuous connection to my LAN. I don't have any ports to spare. Thus, I not only was giving Amazon permission to spy on me, I also was giving them telemetry capability. I suppose it's safe enough, but I am very aware of how easy it is to intercept what is going on with my WiFI router. I do what I can to prevent problems, and that includes not paying somebody to listen in on my private life.
I trust Amazon about as much as I trust Microsoft and Google. We all have a working relationship, but there are limits to it.
I trust Amazon about as much as I trust Microsoft and Google. We all have a working relationship, but there are limits to it.
Re: Alexa vs Alexa
I don't know if they can be plugged directly into a LAN, both of ours use the WiFi.
I just checked the Echo Dot. It has the power cord, and an external speaker receptacle, that's it.
I thought a WiFi router could handle at least 250 WiFi devices without much trouble?
Never saw an Echo that had light bulbs with it. It must be a really old or early model.
I know I've said this before, but the Echo units themselves are not connected until they hear the word Alexa, then they connect to the router. Well, except for the Echo SHOW which is connected to display the temp, time, and advertising, hi hi.
If you LOG your Router for a while, you'll see the only time it connects is if they hear the word Alexa.
Maybe I shouldn't use the word connect, because the Echo Show is always connected and receiving data, which means it gets an acknowledgement signal back to know it received the data sent to it.
But as far as normal talking in the room, especially with the Echo Dot, it doesn't even show connected unless I say the word Alexa, then the date and time appear in the router log if I have the log turned on that is. I usually don't, those logs eat up a lot of space real quick. I think in one day it used up like 60 pages, hi hi.
Debi's Schmartz-Fone shows down and up connections more often than the Echo Show does.
I just checked the Echo Dot. It has the power cord, and an external speaker receptacle, that's it.
I thought a WiFi router could handle at least 250 WiFi devices without much trouble?
Never saw an Echo that had light bulbs with it. It must be a really old or early model.
I know I've said this before, but the Echo units themselves are not connected until they hear the word Alexa, then they connect to the router. Well, except for the Echo SHOW which is connected to display the temp, time, and advertising, hi hi.
If you LOG your Router for a while, you'll see the only time it connects is if they hear the word Alexa.
Maybe I shouldn't use the word connect, because the Echo Show is always connected and receiving data, which means it gets an acknowledgement signal back to know it received the data sent to it.
But as far as normal talking in the room, especially with the Echo Dot, it doesn't even show connected unless I say the word Alexa, then the date and time appear in the router log if I have the log turned on that is. I usually don't, those logs eat up a lot of space real quick. I think in one day it used up like 60 pages, hi hi.
Debi's Schmartz-Fone shows down and up connections more often than the Echo Show does.
Re: Alexa vs Alexa
I would have to dig it out of mothballs to verify what I got. I think it is an Echo, but I could be wrong. It was indeed one of the very first models to be sold. My wife will impulsively buy something new for me just because she thinks I'm a gadget junkie. LOL I know for a fact that we got two light bulbs and that whatever device I actually had needed to be plugged into a router port. It was not WiFi, although it may very well of had that capability. I knew in advance that this spy machine was not going to have a permanent home on my LAN. I wanted to test it out so I agreed to hook it up on a temporary basis.
I also understand that Alexa keys off a single word it is programmed to recognize. I don't know what it is doing in the meantime. I suppose if I were really paranoid, or even half interested, I could put a software sniffer on my LAN and see exactly what Echo is echoing. That would make me feel a little bit safer. But, having the device not connected at all makes my security tactic bulletproof. I can see my neighbors' routers on my network connection panel. The spooky part is that I can see the ones which are halfway down the street. The signal strength is very low, but that is all a bad guy would need to break into my network. Plus, I would not be able to see him parked and out of sight. Thus, even if Echo is echoing only what it is advertised to echo, that traffic on my LAN is visible to anyone who knows how to read it. I might feel better if Echo was encrypted end to end. Than all I'd be worried about is what Amazon's servers are doing with what Echo echos.
I also understand that Alexa keys off a single word it is programmed to recognize. I don't know what it is doing in the meantime. I suppose if I were really paranoid, or even half interested, I could put a software sniffer on my LAN and see exactly what Echo is echoing. That would make me feel a little bit safer. But, having the device not connected at all makes my security tactic bulletproof. I can see my neighbors' routers on my network connection panel. The spooky part is that I can see the ones which are halfway down the street. The signal strength is very low, but that is all a bad guy would need to break into my network. Plus, I would not be able to see him parked and out of sight. Thus, even if Echo is echoing only what it is advertised to echo, that traffic on my LAN is visible to anyone who knows how to read it. I might feel better if Echo was encrypted end to end. Than all I'd be worried about is what Amazon's servers are doing with what Echo echos.
Re: Alexa vs Alexa
I had something happen last night that floored me.
My HP Laser Printer beeped a warning sound.
The display showed someone was trying to connect to my printer via WiFi.
When I use the printer, it is via the USB cable.
When my wife uses the printer, it is via the LAN cable.
Now it just so happens I have an Access Point WiFi up here in the office for the Echo Dot.
Now, unless someone accessed on of our two Routers via WiFi and saw the Printer on the LAN.
I wonder how the Printer knew the signal was coming in over WiFi.
I spent the next hour after that trying to figure it out and put a block on WiFi connections.
Even went into the Internal Program where I do other things not available from the control program.
Such as modify my toner settings, change timers for the heating unit, stuff like that.
As far as I know, this machine does not have WiFi capability, but maybe it does?
I have both printers, Color Laser Jet Pro MFP M477fnw, and M477 fdn. The fdn is the duplexer model, that has sat unused since the first 500 lousy pages. This one produces lousy pages also, but by using aftermarket cartridges I can get good straight color print, but not photo's or even decent cartoon type graphics. Both are horrible printers!
I had a service guy out once, and he told me that HP is notorious for selling garbage machines, which is why his company no longer works on HP products. He said even I wanted it fixed, he couldn't get the parts, and if he could, there is no guarantee they wouldn't be junk too.
This is the same guy who kept my Konica/Minolta running for years. It has gone through two engines, and was ready for a third, which is why I retired it.
A few months ago, I did a web search for Echo devices and security, and was pleased with what all I found out about them.
My HP Laser Printer beeped a warning sound.
The display showed someone was trying to connect to my printer via WiFi.
When I use the printer, it is via the USB cable.
When my wife uses the printer, it is via the LAN cable.
Now it just so happens I have an Access Point WiFi up here in the office for the Echo Dot.
Now, unless someone accessed on of our two Routers via WiFi and saw the Printer on the LAN.
I wonder how the Printer knew the signal was coming in over WiFi.
I spent the next hour after that trying to figure it out and put a block on WiFi connections.
Even went into the Internal Program where I do other things not available from the control program.
Such as modify my toner settings, change timers for the heating unit, stuff like that.
As far as I know, this machine does not have WiFi capability, but maybe it does?
I have both printers, Color Laser Jet Pro MFP M477fnw, and M477 fdn. The fdn is the duplexer model, that has sat unused since the first 500 lousy pages. This one produces lousy pages also, but by using aftermarket cartridges I can get good straight color print, but not photo's or even decent cartoon type graphics. Both are horrible printers!
I had a service guy out once, and he told me that HP is notorious for selling garbage machines, which is why his company no longer works on HP products. He said even I wanted it fixed, he couldn't get the parts, and if he could, there is no guarantee they wouldn't be junk too.
This is the same guy who kept my Konica/Minolta running for years. It has gone through two engines, and was ready for a third, which is why I retired it.
A few months ago, I did a web search for Echo devices and security, and was pleased with what all I found out about them.
Re: Alexa vs Alexa
My HP printer has an Internet server built in. They claim HP (or anyone else) can get into that server even when the printer is turned off. This could be useful under very special circumstances, i.e., when HP has some critical update software that needs to be installed pronto. The stated purpose for the server in my printer is to facilitate remote printing. You can print to my printer via the Internet for example. If all that is true, then, of course, HP (or anybody) can do other things too. You probably would know via a control panel if you have Internet access build tinto your printers. Be that all as it may, Internet server and all, the only way any device can reach the Internet via WiFi or Ethernet is through the modem that connects to your cable service. Thus, whatever it is that is trying to access your HP printer over the WiFi can only be doing it via the modem connection. If there is a discreet WiFi connection from an unknown device, that could do it too. But you have resources on your router to tell you what is connected.
A sure fire way to tell if your printer, or anything else is connected, is to do a network scan using the Linux CLI (terminal).
arp is a built in command just for this purpose. You don't need to be root to use it, but you probably will get better results if you do it as root.
A much improved method is to use the Linux network program nmap. If you do not have it installed, here is the command to do it:
Refresh your repository cache first so that apt can find it in the current list. Once nmap is installed, this command will get you a list of all things connected to your LAN. Your printer would be listed with all its connections.
The above command might need to be modified to reflect your particular LAN. The 192.168.1.xxx is a standard domain reserved for local networks. There are a few others and mine happens to be 10.147.63.xxx. So, whatever those first three triplets are for your particular LAN setup happens to be, they must be substituted for what appears in the example.
REFERENCE: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/ho ... ith-linux/
One other troubleshooting clue would be to determine the source of the error message. Is is being issued by the printer? By the router? By some other security program you have running? The error message could possibly be a false flag. Looking over any error logs that might be generated by the device sending the message could be very helpful in determining what is going on.
A sure fire way to tell if your printer, or anything else is connected, is to do a network scan using the Linux CLI (terminal).
Code: Select all
arp -aA much improved method is to use the Linux network program nmap. If you do not have it installed, here is the command to do it:
Code: Select all
sudo apt-get install nmap -yCode: Select all
nmap -sP 192.168.1.0/24REFERENCE: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/ho ... ith-linux/
One other troubleshooting clue would be to determine the source of the error message. Is is being issued by the printer? By the router? By some other security program you have running? The error message could possibly be a false flag. Looking over any error logs that might be generated by the device sending the message could be very helpful in determining what is going on.
Re: Alexa vs Alexa
I checked last night an the M477 does have built-in WiFi, hi hi.
I went into internal setting and turned off WiFi access.
I also checked the Log for which of my WiFi routers connected, it said none of them, the connection was via the internal WiFi which I didn't even know I had, hi hi.
Had I know this, I wonder if I wouldn't have had to buy an Access Point router for my Echo device in the office?
I already have nmap installed. I don't remember why I installed it, but I needed it to check something a couple years ago.
Not that I know how to use most of those terminal accessed programs.
But thanks for the info, I've jotted it all down on my notepad.
I went into internal setting and turned off WiFi access.
I also checked the Log for which of my WiFi routers connected, it said none of them, the connection was via the internal WiFi which I didn't even know I had, hi hi.
Had I know this, I wonder if I wouldn't have had to buy an Access Point router for my Echo device in the office?
I already have nmap installed. I don't remember why I installed it, but I needed it to check something a couple years ago.
Not that I know how to use most of those terminal accessed programs.
But thanks for the info, I've jotted it all down on my notepad.
Re: Alexa vs Alexa
My understanding is that you received a warning message saying somebody was trying to connect to the printer. You still don't know who or what tried to connect nor from where the warning message was sent. My instincts tell me it's not important and probably a false positive. Then again, I don't know much about Linux networks.
One of the cool things about those nmap functions is that you can request a list of connected devices and an enumeration of what operating system they re running. I knew nmap was good, but didn't think it was THAT good.
One of the cool things about those nmap functions is that you can request a list of connected devices and an enumeration of what operating system they re running. I knew nmap was good, but didn't think it was THAT good.
Re: Alexa vs Alexa
It was the HP Printer itself that gave the warning on its display panel.
If you use WiFi you get a list of WiFi routers you can reach. They usually have a name associated with them.
Most of those names I recognize, and also know the names of those who belong to folks in the neighborhood that I can see.
I had WiFi turned off on the printer, but apparently a new system upgrade turned it back on again.
I took the time to view what devices were on WiFi by checking my WiFi router I have up here.
I turned the WiFi back on, on the Printer, and it appeared with a solid 5 bar signal.
I should have written down how it identified itself, but it was just some letters and numbers and more letters is all.
Something like XCB02BE85FTET, I just made that up, but it did not claim to be an HP printer.
After I turned the printers WiFi back off, in no longer appeared on the router.
But I did learn this while I had it on. If I clicked on that string to connect, it asked for a user name and password.
I just exited out of it, but right before I did, my computer beeped and said Allow WiFi connection or Cancel.
Just for the heck of it I clicked Allow. Then the screen said Waiting for User with a countdown timer of 30 seconds.
At the end of 30 seconds it said Cancelling Connection Request.
So I guess it was just someone near me who clicked on the WiFi string to see what it did at their end.
If it was like at my end, it would have asked them for a user name and password.
I remember when I was checking out the WiFi on the Silver Yogi, I clicked on a few to see if I could connect.
But most of them only asked for a password, which I didn't have, so I moved on.
I did hit one I could connect to, only to learn it belonged to Comcast, and I guess it checked to see my computer was already active on-line. Got a display that said, change from LAN connection to WiFi connection. I just clicked no, and exit.
Rather than using nmap, I can just click on my Access Point Router and view connections. It shows every machine connected to the hardwired LAN, including the LAN switches. Ironically, it shows all the Smart Plugs as well, hi hi.
If you use WiFi you get a list of WiFi routers you can reach. They usually have a name associated with them.
Most of those names I recognize, and also know the names of those who belong to folks in the neighborhood that I can see.
I had WiFi turned off on the printer, but apparently a new system upgrade turned it back on again.
I took the time to view what devices were on WiFi by checking my WiFi router I have up here.
I turned the WiFi back on, on the Printer, and it appeared with a solid 5 bar signal.
I should have written down how it identified itself, but it was just some letters and numbers and more letters is all.
Something like XCB02BE85FTET, I just made that up, but it did not claim to be an HP printer.
After I turned the printers WiFi back off, in no longer appeared on the router.
But I did learn this while I had it on. If I clicked on that string to connect, it asked for a user name and password.
I just exited out of it, but right before I did, my computer beeped and said Allow WiFi connection or Cancel.
Just for the heck of it I clicked Allow. Then the screen said Waiting for User with a countdown timer of 30 seconds.
At the end of 30 seconds it said Cancelling Connection Request.
So I guess it was just someone near me who clicked on the WiFi string to see what it did at their end.
If it was like at my end, it would have asked them for a user name and password.
I remember when I was checking out the WiFi on the Silver Yogi, I clicked on a few to see if I could connect.
But most of them only asked for a password, which I didn't have, so I moved on.
I did hit one I could connect to, only to learn it belonged to Comcast, and I guess it checked to see my computer was already active on-line. Got a display that said, change from LAN connection to WiFi connection. I just clicked no, and exit.
Rather than using nmap, I can just click on my Access Point Router and view connections. It shows every machine connected to the hardwired LAN, including the LAN switches. Ironically, it shows all the Smart Plugs as well, hi hi.
Re: Alexa vs Alexa
I have disabled the Internet connections on my HP printer. I did test out remote printing before I did that, and it worked fine. The printer has no network wires connected to it so that all the printing is via the WiFi associated with my router. Any device on my LAN can print using the WiFi. The control panel for the HP printer can be accessed in one of two ways: directly off the touchscreen on the printer or via WiFi. When accessing via WiFi I get the request for login credentials similar to what you mention. I rarely have to connect to that printer's control panel so that I don't recall the password, but I do have it written down in my master password list.
Like your own, my router will list all the devices connected either graphically or via a lookup table. Certain information cannot be gleaned from the router which is were apps such an nmap come in handy. Then, too, the router has information I've not been able to extract using nmap. However, I do trust nmap to enumerate all the connected devices more so than the router. nmap certainly has a lot more flexibility if you need such a thing.
I can see MAC addresses of all the LAN and Wireless connected devices from the router. The problem there is seeing an unrecognized MAC address does not tell me what the device is nor where it is located. The best I can do is get the manufacturer code off the MAC address. There have been times when strange devices appeared and I put them in the exclude table. Then shortly thereafter my wife will come by asking why her Kindle is no longer working. LOL So, the bottom line here is that MAC addresses have limited usefulness for me. I do have a lot of the devices documented, but apparently not all of them.
A lot of the neighbors around me have guest logins enabled. Or, more correctly, they never disabled it when they installed the router. There are some typical default passwords that come with the router, but none of those ever got me into a neighbor's network. It's possible they changed the default, or more likely the list of default credentials has changed. In any case those guest logins are pretty useless. They will get you a connection to the Internet, but that's it. No printing or accessing any other network devices. I suppose if you want to stream something without being metered you could do it by taping into a neighbor's guest network. Other than that I think it's useless.
Like your own, my router will list all the devices connected either graphically or via a lookup table. Certain information cannot be gleaned from the router which is were apps such an nmap come in handy. Then, too, the router has information I've not been able to extract using nmap. However, I do trust nmap to enumerate all the connected devices more so than the router. nmap certainly has a lot more flexibility if you need such a thing.
I can see MAC addresses of all the LAN and Wireless connected devices from the router. The problem there is seeing an unrecognized MAC address does not tell me what the device is nor where it is located. The best I can do is get the manufacturer code off the MAC address. There have been times when strange devices appeared and I put them in the exclude table. Then shortly thereafter my wife will come by asking why her Kindle is no longer working. LOL So, the bottom line here is that MAC addresses have limited usefulness for me. I do have a lot of the devices documented, but apparently not all of them.
A lot of the neighbors around me have guest logins enabled. Or, more correctly, they never disabled it when they installed the router. There are some typical default passwords that come with the router, but none of those ever got me into a neighbor's network. It's possible they changed the default, or more likely the list of default credentials has changed. In any case those guest logins are pretty useless. They will get you a connection to the Internet, but that's it. No printing or accessing any other network devices. I suppose if you want to stream something without being metered you could do it by taping into a neighbor's guest network. Other than that I think it's useless.
Re: Alexa vs Alexa
I may have mentioned this a couple of years ago. But the place is now gone.
There was a Krystal (that's a hamburger joint similar to White Castle), who gave you free WiFi.
They did change the code daily, and often only rotated between like 5 or 7 different codes.
A friend of Debi's lived in an apartment complex on the street behind Krystal.
Her neighbor got off work around 6 am and would stop in for a coffee, and then drop his receipt into the mail slot of Debi's friend. He could use the number on the receipt to get access to the WiFi, so she never had to pay for an internet connection.
She normally only did her e-mail and perhaps surf the web for a bit before she had to leave for work at 8. Then after work she would still be able to connect, but said it was always much slower after work due to the number of folks at Krystal at night just sitting in there with their laptops half the night.
I changed the password on my main router several times.
And the last time I did, I also changed the connection name.
One of my neighbors for shits n grins named his WiFi router, FBI-Field-Office-#69, hi hi.
He changes the name every once in a while to something crazy. It was Silver Dollar Bordello for a while.
I don't normally check what WiFi connections are out there, unless I'm setting up something new that uses WiFi.
There was a Krystal (that's a hamburger joint similar to White Castle), who gave you free WiFi.
They did change the code daily, and often only rotated between like 5 or 7 different codes.
A friend of Debi's lived in an apartment complex on the street behind Krystal.
Her neighbor got off work around 6 am and would stop in for a coffee, and then drop his receipt into the mail slot of Debi's friend. He could use the number on the receipt to get access to the WiFi, so she never had to pay for an internet connection.
She normally only did her e-mail and perhaps surf the web for a bit before she had to leave for work at 8. Then after work she would still be able to connect, but said it was always much slower after work due to the number of folks at Krystal at night just sitting in there with their laptops half the night.
I changed the password on my main router several times.
And the last time I did, I also changed the connection name.
One of my neighbors for shits n grins named his WiFi router, FBI-Field-Office-#69, hi hi.
He changes the name every once in a while to something crazy. It was Silver Dollar Bordello for a while.
I don't normally check what WiFi connections are out there, unless I'm setting up something new that uses WiFi.
Re: Alexa vs Alexa
My router goes by the name Hazzmat. It has two WiFi channels going by the name of Hazzmat25 and Hazzmat5 to indicate (to me anyway) which band is being used. Looking over the dozens of networks literally in my back yard most of the names are boring and describe the model number of the unit. People around here favor Netgear for some reason. A few people get it and change the names to something creative like ObiWifiKenobi. LOL As it happens the broadcast name is arbitrary. Technically it doesn't matter what you name your WiFi. Changing the name does in fact drop out all the devices which are not configured for the new name. That's a good way to get rid of freeloaders, but it requires you going to all your wireless devices and changing their configuration too. I never changed the password to the network since the day I set it up. Brought it all down here to Missouri too. I feel confident keeping the same password because it is 28 characters long. I dare anyone to break into the front end. LOL Logging into the router control panel itself is a different story. That password does get changed because I'm the only guy who would be affected by it.
I think a lot of those fast food businesses have changed their free access policy to only a certain amount of time that is free. After an hour, say, you get kicked off. This is also how they get rid of neighboring freeloaders. The only thing the freeloaders do is bog down the data rate. My guess would be that all those fast food joints have an unlimited download capacity that is truly unlimited, for a big price.
I think a lot of those fast food businesses have changed their free access policy to only a certain amount of time that is free. After an hour, say, you get kicked off. This is also how they get rid of neighboring freeloaders. The only thing the freeloaders do is bog down the data rate. My guess would be that all those fast food joints have an unlimited download capacity that is truly unlimited, for a big price.
Re: Alexa vs Alexa
I do know how much Krystal paid to Comcast for their business Cable, it was like 180 bucks a month.
The Public WiFi router was separate from the businesses router.
The other restaurant where we had our writers group meetings at, also had free WiFi, but it was totally separate from their business cable. The public WiFi system was on a DSL phone line.
The business cable powered their internal systems and the TVs hanging on the wall.
I think they only paid between 35 and 50 bucks a month for the public WiFi, and naturally it was slow, and got slower the more people who connected to it.
A few years back, when I had a WiFi router plugged into my normal router, I had it set up in such a way it was firewalled to the max. But then when that router gave up the ghost and I bought a new one, the new one had WiFi built in.
But couldn't reach my office. Not even after I had company come out, who claimed the could with no problem, and put a repeater up in the attic by the vent closest to my garage. Still could not get a decent signal. They took everything out then and I was not charged for their trouble. That's what they get for bragging, hi hi.
The WiFi router I have up in my office is set up as an Access Point and it connects directly to my LAN cable. I have the firewall set to only allow the Echo Device to connect to it. All else is blocked, unless I physically allow them in the white list.
The Public WiFi router was separate from the businesses router.
The other restaurant where we had our writers group meetings at, also had free WiFi, but it was totally separate from their business cable. The public WiFi system was on a DSL phone line.
The business cable powered their internal systems and the TVs hanging on the wall.
I think they only paid between 35 and 50 bucks a month for the public WiFi, and naturally it was slow, and got slower the more people who connected to it.
A few years back, when I had a WiFi router plugged into my normal router, I had it set up in such a way it was firewalled to the max. But then when that router gave up the ghost and I bought a new one, the new one had WiFi built in.
But couldn't reach my office. Not even after I had company come out, who claimed the could with no problem, and put a repeater up in the attic by the vent closest to my garage. Still could not get a decent signal. They took everything out then and I was not charged for their trouble. That's what they get for bragging, hi hi.
The WiFi router I have up in my office is set up as an Access Point and it connects directly to my LAN cable. I have the firewall set to only allow the Echo Device to connect to it. All else is blocked, unless I physically allow them in the white list.
Re: Alexa vs Alexa
Routers are in effect switches. Smart switches at that. Typically a home installation would require only one router, or one LAN. In your case with the remote office that appears to be RF resistant, it might make sense to have a separate leg off the main LAN in the house. That leg would be controlled by the router in your office. Connecting your office to the main LAN in the house seems to be a losing proposition for you. I've read your description of it more than once and am still amazed that there is no simple answer. A high quality cable from the house router to your office would seem to fix the problem. If the distance is too great you might need to amplify the signal along the way, but routers these days seem to have no problems going 300 feet or more. I know you're special, but not impossible. LOL
Personally I would get confused by all those switches/routers you have in what amounts to multiple networks. I realize it may not be possible to set it up any other way, but I certainly would be looking for simplicity.
I had DSL at my previous CCC up near Chicago. Never had a need to get a feed that provided more than 7 mbps (the max DSL bandwidth). Yes, some of my downloads were a bit on the slow side, but the slow speed never was a show stopper. I appreciate the 100 mbps here, which is really only about 60 mbps most of the time. The price for Internet connectivity is nearly three times what DSL cost back home, and while it is an improvement I don't think it is ten times better. It COULD be, but Spectrum plays more games with their service than they have in Reno. I think a business connection would do me well because it would not involve throttling. But, alas, it is cost prohibitive. I might change my mind if we ever get serious and dump the cable service. Streaming would then be our main source of entertainment here and paying a higher price might be worth it.
Personally I would get confused by all those switches/routers you have in what amounts to multiple networks. I realize it may not be possible to set it up any other way, but I certainly would be looking for simplicity.
I had DSL at my previous CCC up near Chicago. Never had a need to get a feed that provided more than 7 mbps (the max DSL bandwidth). Yes, some of my downloads were a bit on the slow side, but the slow speed never was a show stopper. I appreciate the 100 mbps here, which is really only about 60 mbps most of the time. The price for Internet connectivity is nearly three times what DSL cost back home, and while it is an improvement I don't think it is ten times better. It COULD be, but Spectrum plays more games with their service than they have in Reno. I think a business connection would do me well because it would not involve throttling. But, alas, it is cost prohibitive. I might change my mind if we ever get serious and dump the cable service. Streaming would then be our main source of entertainment here and paying a higher price might be worth it.
Re: Alexa vs Alexa
Well, I prefer a hard wired LAN, so that is how I set up my office to start with.
I really never needed WiFi up here for anything, until we got the second Echo and I brought one up here.
My main reason for wanting WiFi up here prior to that was I had a few clients at the time who all came with their laptops and needed a way to connect. I always kept a port open on my 8 port LAN switch for them, and a cable they could just plug in.
I was told doing that was one heck of a security risk, so started trying to get WiFi up here.
Fast forward to the time I brought the Echo up here, and found I could just get a WiFi router that can act as an Access Point.
I only have one LAN. The Access Point connects to that LAN.
I used 56k dial-up for years after moving down here. But then I was so busy working, I only needed the connection for e-mail and maintaining my websites.
It wasn't until Debi's son was here and added Internet to the Cable TV which we did have already. He was footing the bill, so I didn't care. I only connected to it a couple of times, but that was enough to spoil me. So after he moved out, we kept the Cable Internet and now use nothing but that.
Right after I moved down here, I did try DSL twice, and neither time could they get it to work right.
Comcast is big on throttling and charging for the speed you want to pay for. But you never get that much, ever.
And now with the TV and other services in our house using the Cable connection, sometimes it is really slow.
I really never needed WiFi up here for anything, until we got the second Echo and I brought one up here.
My main reason for wanting WiFi up here prior to that was I had a few clients at the time who all came with their laptops and needed a way to connect. I always kept a port open on my 8 port LAN switch for them, and a cable they could just plug in.
I was told doing that was one heck of a security risk, so started trying to get WiFi up here.
Fast forward to the time I brought the Echo up here, and found I could just get a WiFi router that can act as an Access Point.
I only have one LAN. The Access Point connects to that LAN.
I used 56k dial-up for years after moving down here. But then I was so busy working, I only needed the connection for e-mail and maintaining my websites.
It wasn't until Debi's son was here and added Internet to the Cable TV which we did have already. He was footing the bill, so I didn't care. I only connected to it a couple of times, but that was enough to spoil me. So after he moved out, we kept the Cable Internet and now use nothing but that.
Right after I moved down here, I did try DSL twice, and neither time could they get it to work right.
Comcast is big on throttling and charging for the speed you want to pay for. But you never get that much, ever.
And now with the TV and other services in our house using the Cable connection, sometimes it is really slow.
Re: Alexa vs Alexa
I find your comment interesting regarding the security risk involved with adding wired connections to your network. Any connection to your network is a security concern because you don't know what is inside the device. Your clients who own the devices may not know either if something malefic is hiding in his OS. If anything is risky it would be WiFi connections because the data being broadcast over RF channels reaches outside your office, and most likely off your property. That gives people unknown and unseen direct access to your network. A wired connection does not leak data as does WiFi and that is the reason it has been considered the safest type of connection. Not to mention fastest.
Yes a router would be an access point to your home network. So would a switch (hub) and a bridge. The "access" however need not be limited to WiFi connections. It was convenient for your situation but probably could have been done without a fully fledged router. I think you have that part of your LAN configured and working to your satisfaction. In the past you have mentioned problems with getting the home LAN into your office, and that is what I was talking about in my last response.
Ever since net neutrality was abolished under the previous administration in DC the internet service providers have all the freedom in America to regulate what comes into your house, its bandwidth, and what they can charge you. The public network is no longer neutral and in order to get those industrial strength Internet speeds and guaranteed up-times you must now pay a high price. Comcast may be notorious for taking advantage of all that, but just about every ISP I ever heard of does something similar. About the only thing you can do on your end is to have fiber installed from your modem out to the cable box and upgrade your wiring to CAT 8. It will help but it won't stop the ISPs from throttling.
The method I use to accommodate multiple users on my home LAN is to use a dual channel router in addition to the hard wire ports. There is a MIMO technology that specifically addresses the multiple user problem but not every router has it, especially not the old ones. It's bad enough the cable companies slow things down, and there is no reason why your router should contribute to the chaos. Then again it's all just a matter of personal tolerance. Most people live with a slow connection and accept it for what it is.
Yes a router would be an access point to your home network. So would a switch (hub) and a bridge. The "access" however need not be limited to WiFi connections. It was convenient for your situation but probably could have been done without a fully fledged router. I think you have that part of your LAN configured and working to your satisfaction. In the past you have mentioned problems with getting the home LAN into your office, and that is what I was talking about in my last response.
Ever since net neutrality was abolished under the previous administration in DC the internet service providers have all the freedom in America to regulate what comes into your house, its bandwidth, and what they can charge you. The public network is no longer neutral and in order to get those industrial strength Internet speeds and guaranteed up-times you must now pay a high price. Comcast may be notorious for taking advantage of all that, but just about every ISP I ever heard of does something similar. About the only thing you can do on your end is to have fiber installed from your modem out to the cable box and upgrade your wiring to CAT 8. It will help but it won't stop the ISPs from throttling.
The method I use to accommodate multiple users on my home LAN is to use a dual channel router in addition to the hard wire ports. There is a MIMO technology that specifically addresses the multiple user problem but not every router has it, especially not the old ones. It's bad enough the cable companies slow things down, and there is no reason why your router should contribute to the chaos. Then again it's all just a matter of personal tolerance. Most people live with a slow connection and accept it for what it is.
Re: Alexa vs Alexa
I had Cat5 cable, 200 feet long, from the router in the house to the switch in my office.
After the hailstorm, I had to replace it with what I thought was Cat6 but found out later it is only Cat5E.
But it does get the gigabit speed so is OK for me.
Only at the time I was setting up a router did I read the book to make it more secure, and also checked on-line to see what the best options were.
That is why my router at the house is set to only recognize and allow my LAN from the office, and the LAN to Debi's computer.
I have a Guest setting that you do not access with a password, well you do, but only after it makes a connection using the internal connection program. Meaning, I have to press a button then tell the person to connect while it is hot. If the connection is successful, then they get a password for the guest account. But if I don't press that button on the router, you are not going to be able to connect to it. Well, unless you are physically plugged into my LAN from the office.
Then when I set up the Access Point router, it is locked to only the Echo Device, and one Guest connection with a password.
This particular router did not have a way to lock in only specific machines like the one int he house, but it was a cheap john too.
The cost to install 200 feet of Cat5E was not cheap, that is why I wanted to try WiFi. I went through several WiFi boxes and none could reach my office. I had mentioned this to a computer connection company and they told me they could do it easily, and if they couldn't they wouldn't charge me. I couldn't pass that up. They tried, even put a repeater up in the attic right at the air exchange vent, which is wood, and still could not get a solid signal in the office. So they took everything back out again and it cost me nothing. I preferred a hard wired LAN anyhow!
The original LAN was installed before I enclosed a room edition. And had siding put on the house, so much of the old LAN is still there under the siding. My twisted pair for a four line telephone, plus a 75 ohm Coax for Ethernet, and a 52 ohm Coax for TV were all in a bundle separate from the CAT5 LAN.
But when I installed the CAT5E, after seeing what the sun and hail did to the CAT5 cable. I decided to bundle it all together with a black wrap over the whole shebang.
The guy who originally installed my siding came over to help, because he had the tools to pop a piece of siding loose for me to slip the CAT5E under. It did require removing the top of the corners and some of the soffit covering to get to the area of the old exit point of all the original wires. It only took about 2 hours to get the outside work done. But then it took me another 3 hours to get the inside work done in the house and garage.
And it has worked well ever since!
Comcast always did charge you for bandwidth. When we first signed up for it, not knowing what her son had when he was here, looking at the price, we only purchased 6 Mbps up and 1 Mbps down. Remember, I was used to 56k dialup, hi hi.
On the anniversary date, we upped the speed to 8 Mbps up and 2 Mbps down. Then we bought the Peformance Plus package, which gave us 12 Mbps up and stayed at 2 Mbps down.
On the next anniversary date, we upped it to 15/2, then 16/2 then 25/4. every quarter.
Another anniversary date later, we upped it to 30/5. Then 50/10.
Now we are on 100/10, but never get it. Average is 60 to 70 up, 5 to 6 down.
They do have higher speeds for much bigger bucks.
Now, across town, the folks over there have Spectrum, and until the 1st of this year, regardless of which package you bought, you could achieve 300 Mbps uploads most of the time, if you also had their streaming TV service. But now they are down to around 75 Mbps uploads unless you pay a lot extra.
Almost everything I do on-line is nearly instant, except for a couple of websites that are naturally slow.
Elon Musk will some day soon dominate the satellite internet connectivity game.
He's already sending modems over to the Ukraine, which is a good test of his satellite system.
I think he has something like 40 of them up there already, either that, or that is his goal.
Hopefully, he will be cheaper than the cable companies and put them all out of business, or at least make them cut their rates down considerably.
I have a friend who lives in Ohio, and the city he's in has cable Internet locked at 25 dollars per month tops, no time limits on usage, but they do have a cap on downloads and uploads, which is so high, nobody has ever hit it yet that he knows.
About the only way to hit the cap is watching streaming videos for over 12 hours straight.
I've heard other cities have also put fee limits on a few cable companies as well, but don't know where they are.
After the hailstorm, I had to replace it with what I thought was Cat6 but found out later it is only Cat5E.
But it does get the gigabit speed so is OK for me.
Only at the time I was setting up a router did I read the book to make it more secure, and also checked on-line to see what the best options were.
That is why my router at the house is set to only recognize and allow my LAN from the office, and the LAN to Debi's computer.
I have a Guest setting that you do not access with a password, well you do, but only after it makes a connection using the internal connection program. Meaning, I have to press a button then tell the person to connect while it is hot. If the connection is successful, then they get a password for the guest account. But if I don't press that button on the router, you are not going to be able to connect to it. Well, unless you are physically plugged into my LAN from the office.
Then when I set up the Access Point router, it is locked to only the Echo Device, and one Guest connection with a password.
This particular router did not have a way to lock in only specific machines like the one int he house, but it was a cheap john too.
The cost to install 200 feet of Cat5E was not cheap, that is why I wanted to try WiFi. I went through several WiFi boxes and none could reach my office. I had mentioned this to a computer connection company and they told me they could do it easily, and if they couldn't they wouldn't charge me. I couldn't pass that up. They tried, even put a repeater up in the attic right at the air exchange vent, which is wood, and still could not get a solid signal in the office. So they took everything back out again and it cost me nothing. I preferred a hard wired LAN anyhow!
The original LAN was installed before I enclosed a room edition. And had siding put on the house, so much of the old LAN is still there under the siding. My twisted pair for a four line telephone, plus a 75 ohm Coax for Ethernet, and a 52 ohm Coax for TV were all in a bundle separate from the CAT5 LAN.
But when I installed the CAT5E, after seeing what the sun and hail did to the CAT5 cable. I decided to bundle it all together with a black wrap over the whole shebang.
The guy who originally installed my siding came over to help, because he had the tools to pop a piece of siding loose for me to slip the CAT5E under. It did require removing the top of the corners and some of the soffit covering to get to the area of the old exit point of all the original wires. It only took about 2 hours to get the outside work done. But then it took me another 3 hours to get the inside work done in the house and garage.
And it has worked well ever since!
Comcast always did charge you for bandwidth. When we first signed up for it, not knowing what her son had when he was here, looking at the price, we only purchased 6 Mbps up and 1 Mbps down. Remember, I was used to 56k dialup, hi hi.
On the anniversary date, we upped the speed to 8 Mbps up and 2 Mbps down. Then we bought the Peformance Plus package, which gave us 12 Mbps up and stayed at 2 Mbps down.
On the next anniversary date, we upped it to 15/2, then 16/2 then 25/4. every quarter.
Another anniversary date later, we upped it to 30/5. Then 50/10.
Now we are on 100/10, but never get it. Average is 60 to 70 up, 5 to 6 down.
They do have higher speeds for much bigger bucks.
Now, across town, the folks over there have Spectrum, and until the 1st of this year, regardless of which package you bought, you could achieve 300 Mbps uploads most of the time, if you also had their streaming TV service. But now they are down to around 75 Mbps uploads unless you pay a lot extra.
Almost everything I do on-line is nearly instant, except for a couple of websites that are naturally slow.
Elon Musk will some day soon dominate the satellite internet connectivity game.
He's already sending modems over to the Ukraine, which is a good test of his satellite system.
I think he has something like 40 of them up there already, either that, or that is his goal.
Hopefully, he will be cheaper than the cable companies and put them all out of business, or at least make them cut their rates down considerably.
I have a friend who lives in Ohio, and the city he's in has cable Internet locked at 25 dollars per month tops, no time limits on usage, but they do have a cap on downloads and uploads, which is so high, nobody has ever hit it yet that he knows.
About the only way to hit the cap is watching streaming videos for over 12 hours straight.
I've heard other cities have also put fee limits on a few cable companies as well, but don't know where they are.