2009 Saturn

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yogi
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Re: 2009 Saturn

Post by yogi »

I've seen one of those high wheel bikes in a restaurant we used to frequent back in the old neighborhood. My memory is kind of foggy about it now but I'm visualizing a big wheel with wooden spokes. It was up on a wall for decoration purpose. I could not imagine why such a thing was invented, but there probably was a good reason for such a huge wheel up front.

A lot of guys I knew drove their muscle cars around town to pick up girls. I never could afford a car of my own, and much less one with any muscle to it. But, I did buy a bicycle built for two and did indeed pick up girls with it. LOL Well, maybe it was only one girl and she lived around the block from me and we kind of were sweet on each other. Other than her I had no reason to own a two seater. I had a paper route in those days which paid a fantastic salary, something like $5-$6 per week depending on how many tips people gave me when I did collections. I saved my income from that paper route for a long time to buy my first bicycle. I had others before that, but they were all hand-me-downs and not multi speed.

The bike I saw and loved at first sight was made by the Columbia Bicycle company and had a two speed automatic transmission. I was fascinated by the idea of automatic gear shift, plus the styling was like no Schwin I ever saw. I don't know exactly how the gears worked, but the rear axle was very special. The sprocket wheel was mounted on the side of what could have been a used soup can. A conventional axle went through the middle, but inside was an assembly of parts that I never could figure out. The bike was peddled like any other. When you wanted to switch gears you would move the pedals backward as if you were going to apply the brakes. But, you only had to go half way back, rest a moment, and then start pedaling again in the other gear. The brakes were inside that can too and worked like conventional bicycle brakes. A hard pedal counter-clockwise engaged the brake. I don't know what they did to change the gear ratio because there was only one set of sprocket wheels with gear teeth. All the magic was inside that soup can axle. And, after using that bike for a few years, that's when I got the two seat bike made by the same company with the same automatic transmission.

Thanks for reminding me about the bleeder valve on the water supply. That's been pretty standard, as you say, forever. The drain outlet for pipes going outside would be something else and a great idea. Your dad had some great ideas even if he didn't do it himself.
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Kellemora
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Re: 2009 Saturn

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Well, the era of the high wheel bikes was when the roads were made of cobblestones, if they were paved at all.
The larger the wheel, the less bouncing around on the cobblestones or coarse gravel. Even though the back wheel was tiny, most of your weight was on the front wheel, and it was mainly there for balance. You did have to lean back on them when stopping to keep from going over the front and smashing your face into the road, hi hi.
Although the nickname for them was Penny-Farthing, the one I owned was a Velecoproster or something like that.
Had to look it up, it was called a velocipede!

My late wife and I bought a pair of recumbant bikes, got them for about 300 bucks each.
They were unlike many other recumbant bikes, because the pedals were down low behind the front wheel, but drove the back wheel. I was called a Low Rider Recumbant and made somewhere in England if I remember right.
Two things we didn't like about it was, it had two derailers and a turnbuckle to steer.
Other than that, it looked almost like a normal bike. The back wheel was larger than the front wheel, while most recumbants have a larger front wheel, and many the pedals are higher than the top of the front wheel, and often drive the front wheel.
It was a comfortable bike to ride. Had to be for Ruth to be able to ride it, hi hi.
One thing for sure, when we took those bikes up to a park in Clayton, MO to ride there, we did get a lot of looks, and would stop and talk to people about our bikes. Sometimes we even let a few people try them out.
Went to Forest Park with them a few times also. A person tried to steal the one my wife was on, and a few people would take pictures of us the times we just went around the same path several times.
After Ruth became to ill to ride, a man offered me like 450 bucks each for them, and paid in cash too.
I found out the reason is the brand we had was now selling for like 750 bucks each.
I looked to see if there was a picture like the ones we had and couldn't find one.
Did find a few nice ones though where the pedals are not up over your head, hi hi.

My grandfather was the real brainchild of the family. Shame he died so young, before his kids could absorb his knowledge.
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yogi
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Re: 2009 Saturn

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Velocipede ... that certainly sounds like a British invention. LOL Apparently it's a generic name for any cycle that is human powered.

I've seen a couple of those recumbent bikes right here in O'Fallon. They are about as rare at those three wheeler motorcycles I've seen too. The motorcycles were parked in Schnucks parking lot and people about my age were using them. I was totally impressed when I saw them the first time, all brightly colored and shining. I didn't ask but I am certain a new one of those costs more than a new car. While they were as fancy as fancy could be, I had to wonder why people would prefer that to a conventional automobile. I guess it's just the glory of it all because there is no advantage other than you can say you own one and I don't. LOL

My wife loves those recumbent bikes and has suggested we get a couple. She would rent them when she traveled down to Florida to visit her sister who lived by the Gulf Coast. We don't have anything that exotic around here so that it may not be worth it. :grin:
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Re: 2009 Saturn

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The store where we bought our two recumbant bikes had three or four different models in stock.
They did have one that was lower priced than the pair we chose, and still had lower pedals, but they drove a larger front tire.
We didn't like any of those where your feet were up at shoulder height, and they were all more expensive anyhow.
You have to remember, Ruth was very heavy set, but could handle the particular bikes we bought really well.

Speaking of which. Do you remember the little pedal cars we had as kids? Where you just push the pedals back and forth?
The also had a bike like that there too, but it was way up there, around 700 bucks each I think.
I don't know much about it, but it had to have some type of gearing inside that hub.

I bought my mom a tri-cycle with a basket on the back for going up to the club house and pool. Several folks near her had them.
I think she only used it like 3 or 4 times and went back to riding on the little tram they provided. She did keep it for a couple of years, but I'm pretty sure she gave it away instead of selling it to make room in her first floor storage area.

I've seen a lot of those three wheel motorcycles. In fact, in the 1950's when you bought a car, the car dealer had one they would hook to the back of the car to deliver the car to you, then ride back to the dealership on it.
And yes, the cost of motorcycles has really shot up too! My Suzuki 380J only cost like 650 bucks. Now a comparable bike to it costs around 6 grand or more. We had a 3 wheel motorcycle of sorts, it was more like a tow motor though. The two wheels were up front for steering, and the single drive wheel was in the back. It didn't go very fast though, it was used to pull our whoopies (flat top wagons) around the greenhouses, instead of using a tractor. I never used it myself simply because it was a company vehicle, not an abandoned one like those in the old stables, hi hi. We also had another one that had four wheels and looked like a riding lawn mower that had a trailer hookup on the front. It was great for parking the trailers close to each other, and if I recall, it was the back wheels that were steerable, not the front wheels. More like a fork-lift works.

Around the late 1970's or early '80s they came out with a motor that hooked to the shaft that holds your seat on a bicycle, or you could mount it on the front too where the handlebar shaft goes through to the front fork. It was just a tiny motor that the weight of which allowed a drive pin to just sit on top of the tire. They were fairly cheap so a lot of people around where I lived bought them.
The motorized bike I had, the motor was down in the middle of the bike about where your knees would touch it.
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Re: 2009 Saturn

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My first bicycle was too big for me to use at the time my godmother gave it to me for Christmas. It was a 26" wheel red bike and I wasn't much taller than that at the time. LOL The first bike I could ride was a hand me down and thinking back on the design it could have been hand made in somebody's garage. I'd have to take a guess that the wheels were around 20" diameter, perhaps smaller. I also think they were solid rubber and not inflatable. The frame was welded together and made of something like electrical conduit piping. The seat was a normal bike seat but not adjustable. It too was welded into place. The most unique feature of this bike was the drive chain was not a chain. It was what could have been a serpentine belt used in automobiles if they had such a thing back then. The sprockets were simple pulley wheels that could be adjusted back and forth as the drive belt wore. There were no brakes on this bike. It seems that I rode it for a few years before I grew into the Christmas present bike. Not sure what happened to it after that.

The other unusual bike I had was given to me to use on my paper route during my teen years. It had a normal 26" back end, but the front wheel was only 12". Above that small wheel was a huge wire basket. This bike was previously used by a grocery store to make deliveries. The papers I delivered fit perfectly into the basket most days. Sunday was a problem because the newspapers where very thick on that day. It was kind of weird driving that bike because the basket was stationary. The wheel under it turned for steering but not the basket.

Way back before owning automobiles was the norm, my uncle who was a jockey had a motorcycle with a sidecar. Passengers and cargo all went into the same place. The bikes I've seen at Schnucks had two wheels in back supporting a cargo bay/people carrier. The front wheel did the steering and I can only guess that the back two were the driving mechanisms. The dash between the handlebars was outfitted like the instrument panel of a 747. For all I know it had an altimeter on it. LOL
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Kellemora
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Re: 2009 Saturn

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Wow, your bike sounds like something my grandfather made for his boys.
It used steel pipes of which most were screwed into pipe fittings.
The unique thing about them were they were drive shaft driven.
That being said, the gearing came from the crank up ventilators used in greenhouses.
He built like 3 or 4 sizes of these bikes, for his boys and girls to use on the farm.
But then when they got to around 10 or 12 years old, he bought them new manufactured bikes.
I think the bought bikes were heavier than the ones he made from pipes because of all the trim on them during that era.
Although they were pedal bicycles, the boys bikes looked like they had a gas tank on them. So did the girls bikes, but it was down between the twin lower front bracing pipes. Plus humongous fenders. I'm sure you've seen what older bikes looked like.

I think I've seen the type of bike you delivered papers in.
Around where we lived, the boys that delivered newspapers in the subdivisions had bikes with a large saddlebags type of basket on each side of the back wheels, plus a few older boys had a small two wheel trailer they pulled behind them.
I'm pretty sure they worked with a delivery truck newspaper guy, not straight from the newspaper itself.
I worked a street corner for a while myself, and the papers were delivered to us by the man who owned that route.

That latter bike you mentioned sounds interesting.
We had a fellow who owned a machine shop, and he made some fancy add-ons for his kids bicycles.
But mostly what I remember is all the lights on them, a siren, mirrors, and a few other things.
It took a lot of pedal power when they turned on the second or third generator, or the siren which was a mechanical one, a bar from it would drop down on the front tire. It wasn't all that loud either.

I've seen a few bikes around town here that I'm sorta curious about, but have only seen them going down the road when I was near the shopping center. They don't have a chain, but a weird looking belt. It's a V-belt like automotive belts, but the V-shape is fairly tall. I don't think you would call them automatic transmissions, but the pulley on the back wheel is like a split pulley that can be closed closer together or opened further apart. So it works sorta like gears. I've just never seen any levers to control it. The belt itself when the bike is stopped is riding way up high at the top of the pulley, but if you see them go by going fast, the belt is closer to the bottom of the pulley.
Maybe you know what that type of drive is called?
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yogi
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Re: 2009 Saturn

Post by yogi »

I did a brief search for "belt driven bicycle" and came up with a surprising number of them. The most surprising part is the pricing which is astronomical. LOL I tried to find a picture of anything that resembled a split pulley, but no luck in that regard. The bikes I owned and which had the 2 speed automatic transmission did not have any levers. Switching of gears was done by special maneuvers using the pedals. There was only one chain and one sprocket wheel so that I could not tell by looking how the gear ratio was changed. It might be possible to arrange pulleys and levers so that the mechanical advantage changes on the fly, but I don't know what such a thing would be called. Variable slip differential sounds right to me. :mrgreen:
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Re: 2009 Saturn

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I didn't spend too much time looking for something about variable ratio pulleys, but here is one site that sorta explains it a little, but very vague.
https://www.torquetrans.com/blog/how-do ... lleys-work

Aha, here is a very short video of how variable drive and driven pulleys work together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4h-Me5lSOY

This video followed the one above and really shows how they work. More videos kept following also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHWqlfDZnmQ

Here is a video that shows a CVT bicycle, after it shows a couple of cars, so keep watching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EivnXf10nYg

Aha, I found the single hub CVT bicycle, NuVinci Hub, good for all kinds of uses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVPjhmTThPo

I did find another one but it was too long and way to boring to add a link for. It used the driven sprocket that expands and shrinks using electronics, and to make up for the different chain lengths uses a spring loaded arm on the lower part of the chain at the back wheel. Not very good in my opinion.

The pulleys are called Continuously Variable Transmissions.
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yogi
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Re: 2009 Saturn

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Thank you for all that information. I feel as if I have been enlightened now. :mrgreen:

The idea behind those pulleys is quite simple. It seems as if there would be a lot of wear on the v-belts, but then one of the videos show how that can be replaced with flexible metal belts. I still don't know what my old bikes had in their wheel hubs, but at least now I can understand how it is possible. There was a claim in one of the videos that these pulleys can easily take the place of pulse width modulated motors and at a cheaper cost. I'd have to take their word on that, but my instincts say it's a wash or the cost advantage is very little. Electronics is pretty cheap these days. I was being facetious to call it " variable slip differential" which is a term I recall Chrysler using in some of their cars if I recall. Continuously variable transmission sounds like the same thing I would say.
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Re: 2009 Saturn

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Almost all of my muscle cars had posi-traction rear ends. Which merely means it is like driving a solid axle car with no rear hub. Except it allows for turning a corner without breaking an axle.

I got think about this after I sent the message. And my Shopsmith Lathe used a CVT which was a pair of adjustable pulleys to speed up or slow down the output shaft. It worked just great for many years.

I also had other shop machines that just used variable speed motors, and honestly, they do require more electric to run.

Many eons ago, my dad obtained one of the huge clock motors from a tower down in St. Louis that had four clocks in it.
It was strong enough, due to being geared down, you could use it to pull a tree out of the ground on the lowest gear.
What surprised me the most, is why use a 3600 rpm motor and massive gearbox for a clock?
My dad said it was to keep the clock more accurate, which does make sense. Especially since it did have a seconds hand.
If you drove around the clock, since the seconds hand was always the same on all four sides, one would think one motor drove all four faces. But that was not the case, each clock faces hands were driven by a different motor.
In any case, that motor had so much power, I used it to drive the huge overhead door on our boiler room.
It was still there and working just fine when we closed down and sold the place in 1984.
It wouldn't have worked if the motor had to be able to change directions. But the original garage door motor only turned in one direction also, and was much slower at opening that huge door too. What I do remember is the big disc on the ceiling above the door, hidden when the door was open. Bars from it are what opened and closed the door.
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yogi
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Re: 2009 Saturn

Post by yogi »

I never thought about driving the hands of a clock, and much less four that are in sync. LOL There are such things as synchronous motors that are as accurate as the AC line frequency, which is probably good enough for the clocks of which you speak. The power of electric motors, as you certainly must know, depends on the way the coils are wound. Those clock motors probably were shunt style much the same as the starter motor in your car. A small shunt motor can develop a lot of torque even before the gearing is added. Your dad was a very resourceful individual by being able to get his hands on those clock motors. They must have been heavy too. It makes me wonder how he got the motor home.

Also never thought about what drives a lathe. A CVT pulley would be the ideal drive mechanism and provide a very smooth transition between speeds.
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Re: 2009 Saturn

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The clock motors were not all that heavy or very large. They would fit into a 10x8x8 inch box easily.
The motors themselves were rated for Continuous Duty, which was stamped right on the side of the motor housing.

I've been in other clock towers that used AC motors to power them, but they all used an array of gears so one motor drove all the hands of the clock. Over the years, electric clocks have always been fairly accurate. I assume because voltage fluctuations don't matter as long as the cycle remains solid at 60 Hz.
So I suppose using a higher speed motor, especially at 3,600 rpm and gearing it down would make it even more accurate.

He only got one of the motors, not all four of them. He gave it to me when it wouldn't work for whatever he intended it for.
It sat around in my garage for like five years before I used it on the boiler room's big door.
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