FWIW

[yogi]

I've never received flu shots before this Covid pandemic. My reasoning was similar to the reason I do not use antivirus software on my computers. The vaccine is a reaction to last year's strain. By the time the vaccine becomes available, new strains are circulating. That is exactly how many antivirus programs work. Computers need to be infected first so that a signature to counteract it can be learned. By the time that fix is released into the wilds, several new viruses are already infecting machines. Neither digital nor biological antivirus treatments prevent new (zero day) viruses from acting.

There is a lot of talk about boosters and the need for annual treatments. I suppose that provides some protection against what already exists, but it doesn't seem to prevent new infections.

[Kellemora]

I've not got the vaccine and don't intend to.
Did you see where a Carnival Cruise ship who made sure 100% of their employees were full-vaccinated, and all passengers had to show they were fully-vaccinated to board the ship.
Shouldn't this mean everyone was safe?
If so, then why is Covid now running rampant on that ship?

My take on it is the same as it was before. An untested experimental drug not yet approved by the FDA is using everyone as guinea pigs.

[yogi]

While my sources may not be any more reliable than your sources, the follow seems to be a generally agreed upon conclusion among people who are experts:

Which fully people vaccinated get infected?
Schaffner said that “older” and “very, very frail” people will be infected with COVID-19, regardless of vaccination status.

“They never were able to respond to the vaccine, and we have the occasional immunocompromised person whose immune system also couldn’t respond optimally to the vaccine,” Schaffner told CNN.

Do fully vaccinated people die from COVID-19?
It has happened, but it’s rare. New data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention showed that 99.999% of fully vaccinated Americans did not have a breakthrough COVID-19 case that led to hospitalization or death.

There were 6,587 COVID-19 breakthrough cases among 163 million fully vaccinated, as I wrote for the Deseret News. In those cases, 6,239 cases led to hospitalization, and 1,263 led to death.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... w-enus-702

In my mind the most impressive take away in that article is that 99.999% of vaccinated people DO NOT end up in a hospital or being dead from COVID-19. Almost all the ICU patients (in Florida and other high risk states) are not vaccinated.

For people who are older, frail, and immunocompromised, the current vaccines would not benefit them.

[Kellemora]

Well, with my current medical conditions. I think the vaccine itself would probably kill me.
My wife did OK getting hers. Took her a couple of days to feel back up to snuff afterward.
But we have no idea what the long term affects of it will be, since it was not previously tested, and still not approved by the FDA.

I know CNN never tells the truth about anything, and the CDC seems to be following their bad example!

[yogi]

The vaccine is already approved by the FDA, for emergency use. The FDA will be approving the vaccine for general use next month, September. You are right that ten years of data of the vaccine and COVID-19 simply are not available. If I were to wait around to be statistically confident in the treatment, I'd be dead from the infection it prevents. We all have our own personal threshold of risk. I respect yours and fully understand your reasoning. 70% of my fellow Missourians think the same way.

[Kellemora]

All of the vaccines ever created were to protect us from naturally occurring diseases.
Sars-Cov-19 which causes Covid-19 is a man made weapon of biological warfare that escaped a Levef 4 Containment BioLab.
The so called Covid-19 Vaccine was developed independently by 4 different companies, and all of them used mRNA approaches.
No other vaccine has ever done that, so we have absolutely no idea of what will happen with it in our bodies.
And the sad thing is, those who are vaccinated are still causing others to get Covid-19 and/or variants of it.

Look at the Carnival Cruise Line where 100% of the staff and crew were vaccinated twice, and 100% of the passengers were vaccinated twice, and tested as clean and clear before departure. Now Covid is running rampant on that ship. Why?
Makes it obvious the shots are not working as claimed!

[Kellemora]

All of the vaccines ever created were to protect us from naturally occurring diseases.
Sars-Cov-19 which causes Covid-19 is a man made weapon of biological warfare that escaped a Levef 4 Containment BioLab.
The so called Covid-19 Vaccine was developed independently by 4 different companies, and all of them used mRNA approaches.
No other vaccine has ever done that, so we have absolutely no idea of what will happen with it in our bodies.
And the sad thing is, those who are vaccinated are still causing others to get Covid-19 and/or variants of it.

Look at the Carnival Cruise Line where 100% of the staff and crew were vaccinated twice, and 100% of the passengers were vaccinated twice, and tested as clean and clear before departure. Now Covid is running rampant on that ship. Why?
Makes it obvious the shots are not working as claimed!

[yogi]

Nobody can credibly dispute the fact that today, 12 August, 2021, the incidents of COVID-19 are rebounding at an alarming rate. Several states, mostly in the south, have run out of hospital beds and ICU units. The state of Mississippi is desperate in that regard and is requesting the US Government to send hospital ships to the rescue. These are in your face facts. Also, more than 90% of the people hospitalized for COVID today are unvaccinated. 99.99% of those people dying from COVID infections today are unvaccinated. I don't need ten years of data to tell me what's going on here.

As far as Carnival is concerned, I certainly don't know the details of what is going on there. Most likely the information circulating is inaccurate, incomplete, or outright lies. Put 5000 people in a closed environment and allow one of them to be infected with a highly contagious virus. How long do you think it would take for all 5000 to become infected?

Again, I'd have to opine that you are making the right decision to not be vaccinated, but perhaps for the wrong reasons. You have written a few things about your health status here and from that it would be a good guess that your immune system is not operating at 100%. They are calling that being immunocompromised. For that reason alone it's probably a bad idea to get the vaccine. Unfortunately, it would likely be lethal for you to acquire COVID of any version. Isolation and common sense physical practices, such as masking and social distancing, would be your best approach to surviving this pandemic. Also, as a friend who is concerned about your well being, I would advise you not to book any cruises on Carnival ships for the foreseeable future.

[Kellemora]

Well you know I spend from 8 am until 9 pm in my detached garage office, except for going to the house for lunch and dinner, and after an hour and a half with the wife talking, we all go to bed with the dogs, hi hi.

I guess I'm not seeing the same reports you are. What I'm seeing is those who were vaccinated are carriers the same as those who were not vaccinated. Plus the recovery rate for Covid is still above 95% among all age groups. Those who are dying already had other serious things that even a simple cold would have caused their demise.

[yogi]

We probably do see similar reports about the pandemic, but I'm certain we are interpreting what we read differently. I am well aware of the fact that anybody can be a carrier of the virus, vaccination status notwithstanding. That is the exact reason why even fully vaccinated people are being told to wear masks. Masking is a measure designed to prevent the spread of the virus through the spray of fluids that normally come out of your mouth when you talk. The mask works in both directions in fact. It is the most effective way, but not perfect, to prevent incoming air born virus transmissions. Thus, the importance of masking and social distancing is to dramatically slow down the transmission of the deadly virus.

People who are fully vaccinated have an advantage. I won't deny that some of them die from the virus, but that is documented to be in the range of < .003%. Of the remaining 99.997% of vaccinated people the percentage of those folks who end up in the hospital is in the single digits (I don't have the exact numbers at hand). Nearly all of those recover and walk out of the hospital unassisted. The remaining 90+% of the vaccinated people are free of infection, asymptomatic, or experience very mild reactions to the disease.

I just saw my doctor a couple hours ago for my annual well being exam. We talked about the virus and he confirmed from his own personal experience that well over 90% of the patients hospitalized (at St Lukes) for COVID were not vaccinated at all. That, my friend, is the benefit of being vaccinated. I concede there are no perfect cures, and there certainly isn't ten years of study on the records. By being vaccinated, I improved my chances of surviving a virus infection dramatically. I'm willing to take the risks that go along with it in that I consider them insignificant.

[Kellemora]

Hmm Yogi. I well can you carry dry sand in a screen colander?

The Sars-Cov-2, which is Covid-19 is less than 1 micron in size.
The best face masks, unless you get into respirators, only filter down to 3 microns if you are lucky.
Masks do NOT protect the wearer from Covid-19! They are about 30% helpful in protecting others from you.

I don't believe 90% of those hospitalized have Covid, nor that many were not vaccinated.

I've seen with my own two eyes, an unused Covid test swab taken from the wrapper and stuck straight into the test vial.
It came out positive for Covid. So anyone they tested using that batch of swabs would have tested positive.
I still think it is bio-warfare myself, and the shots are a means of controlling people now and in the future.

[yogi]

You are correct about the size of the actual virus cell. However, the transmission of those virus cells is via the droplets of fluids in a person's nose and mouth. Those droplets may have hundreds, or thousands, or millions for all I know, of the < 1 micron virus embedded in them. You certainly do have some of the facts. In spite of my disagreement with your logic, I do respect your point of view. The virus currently in circulation does seem like potential biological warfare. That is how the conspiracy theorists, Q-Anon in particular, are presenting their case. I prefer to rely on factual data.

[Kellemora]

It came from a Level 4 bio containment facility. That alone should scare the shit out of you!

Yes, on Exhale, the humidity in the breath can help trap germs and virus in the mask. But it is only about 30%.
On Inhale they do next to nothing to help the wearer!
Covid-19 has over a 98% survival rate.
And apparently the shots do little as far as stopping the spread of the virus.

[yogi]

The virus that caused this pandemic was indeed being evaluated in a research lab, but as of today it is not generally known where it originated. The Chinese are not cooperating with that kind of investigation.

And apparently the shots do little as far as stopping the spread of the virus.

That's the exact point many anti-vaxers do not seem to understand. The vaccines do absolutely nothing to directly stop the airborne spread of the virus. That's why masks and social distancing must be practiced by people who have been vaccinated. The vaccine will, however, keep you out of the hospital and leave more ICU space for people not vaccinated, lessen the burden and trauma to your family and friends should you become infected, and avoid long term damage should you survive an attack.

[yogi]

SOURCE: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/c ... story.html
I'm doing something here that I normally think is a bad idea. It's poor practice to copy/paste articles as arguments for or against a given line of thought. Since the linK is to a paywall publication, and since you may not have a means to get around it, I did the copy/paste thing as a public service for all those people who might want to read some background material about the origins of the virus we have been discussing in this thread. It's a long read, but it explains a few things you won't see your your typical Facebook News feed.

• That remains the consensus of many scientists — but the “lab leak” theory has never gone away and has become louder than ever. It is not a theory so much as a constellation of scenarios that imagine how the virus may have emanated from a laboratory in China, ranging from the accidental to the sinister.
  
  It dominates news coverage and public discussion of the origin of the pandemic, shoving aside the natural zoonosis hypothesis — which asserts that, like so many previous infectious pathogens, the novel coronavirus most likely jumped unassisted into the human population from a still-unidentified animal host.
  
  Scientists haven’t found that animal, however. Some virologists, including Perlman, have said they can’t rule out some kind of unintentional laboratory accident.
  In the absence of crucial evidence of how the new coronavirus began comes many theories — one is that the virus accidentally escaped from a lab in Wuhan, China. (Sarah Cahlan, Meg Kelly/The Washington Post)
  
  It’s possible, for example, that researchers studying coronaviruses in Wuhan did not even know they had SARS-CoV-2 in their facility. The new openness to such scenarios culminated last month when the journal Science published a letter from 18 prominent scientists calling for a more robust probe of the virus’s origin and criticizing a World Health Organization report that called a lab leak “extremely unlikely.”
  
  This is a fraught moment not only for virologists, but for scientists broadly. They have had to deal with some version of the “Frankenstein” meme for generations. Now, they’re faced with suspicion that somehow they are responsible for a plague that has killed millions of people.
  
  The situation has exacerbated long-standing tensions within the sprawling and often cantankerous scientific community. The lab-origin possibility has reignited debate over “gain of function” experiments that, in an effort to anticipate future pandemics, may alter the potency of viruses in secure laboratory settings. Scientists have clashed repeatedly over the risks and rewards of that kind of research for the past decade.
  
  “There’s sniping going on in all directions,” said Marcia McNutt, president of the National Academy of Sciences.
  
  Her message to everyone: cool it. She doesn’t think a scientist who is open to the possibility of a laboratory accident should be labeled a conspiracy theorist. And some people are proclaiming certainties about the origin of the virus despite having limited knowledge or expertise, she said.
  
  “If anyone is going to come out strongly on one hypothesis or another, the scientific method says that there should be evidence to back it. I worry when some people are very willing to be firm about one origin or the other but fail to either have the evidence or the expertise to back it up,” McNutt said.
  
  McNutt and the presidents of the national academies of medicine and engineering published a letter Tuesday staking out a neutral position amid all this rancor. It advocated for a probe “guided by scientific principles” that would consider multiple scenarios for the origin of the pandemic. It called on China to share information about research there. And it defended scientists.
  
  “[M]isinformation, unsubstantiated claims, and personal attacks on scientists surrounding the different theories of how the virus emerged are unacceptable, and are sowing public confusion and risk undermining the public’s trust in science and scientists, including those still leading efforts to bring the pandemic under control,” the letter said.
  
  Francis S. Collins, director of the National Institutes of Health, said in an interview that “it’s deeply disheartening to see this terribly difficult worldwide situation that has taken almost 4 million lives and somehow turned into a motivation to demonize some of the scientists who have done the most to try to get through this.”
  
  He cited Anthony S. Fauci, the director since 1984 of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. Fauci has managed to serve seven presidents by avoiding political quagmires, but in recent weeks he has been excoriated in the right-wing news media and by some prominent Republican officials for his institute’s past funding of virus research at the Wuhan lab. Peter Navarro, who served as Donald Trump’s trade representative, went so far as to declare in March that “Tony Fauci is the father of the virus.”
  
  Fauci this month fired back.
  
  “It’s very dangerous, because a lot of what you’re seeing as attacks on me, quite frankly, are attacks on science. Because all of the things that I have spoken about consistently from the very beginning have been fundamentally based on science,” he said on MSNBC. “Science and the truth are being attacked.”
  
  There is more noise than signal here. The lab-leak hypotheses lack direct evidence. Chinese scientists deny they had SARS-CoV-2 or its immediate ancestor in-house. The leak conjectures are fashioned around unknowns, missing information, inconsistent statements by scientists and a lack of transparency among Chinese officials. Suspicion and speculation fill holes in the narrative.
  
  But scientists who support a natural origin have yawning gaps in their own story. They have not identified the intermediate animal host carrying SARS-CoV-2.
  
  So where did this awful thing come from? That is a legitimate scientific mystery. The stakes are high, and crucial pieces of information are absent. As a result, the quest to understand the origin of the pandemic has been caught up in political battles and ideological maelstroms. There’s a hunt for villains before the crime has been fully documented.
  
  “This discussion has just gotten so acerbic. It’s just been terrible,” Perlman said.
  
  Collins and Fauci have called for Chinese scientists to open their records to inspection. President Biden echoed that this month, saying China should let investigators have access to the laboratories: “We have not had access to determine whether or not this was the consequence of the marketplace of animals and environment . . . or an experiment gone awry in the lab.”
  
  The main argument in favor of natural zoonosis — one that unfolded beyond the walls of a lab — is that this has happened before with countless viruses, including coronaviruses. SARS, the coronavirus that caused a deadly outbreak in 2002 and 2003 but was throttled before it became a pandemic, first passed through an intermediate animal sold in markets — Himalayan palm civets. Scientists believe this new coronavirus probably passed through an intermediate host as well.
  
  For many scientists, the lab-leak hypotheses remain a classic example of an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence.
  
  Susan R. Weiss, a virologist at the University of Pennsylvania who has studied coronaviruses for 40 years, invokes the adage about what people should expect to see coming if they hear hoofbeats.
  
  “You know the thing about horses and zebras,” she said. “Zoonosis is the horse, and the lab leak is the zebra.”
  
  There are many variations on the lab-leak theory, some requiring scientific subterfuge — a conspiracy, in other words, to hide what was being done in the lab. Such hypotheses, built on suspicions of missing information and deception, are hard to disprove. Scientists adhering to the natural origin hypothesis are unlikely to embrace a rival hypothesis that requires, as a fundamental assumption, an impenetrable wall of deceit.
  
  They are more likely, however, to be open to the possibility of an accident at a lab, one without nefarious intent, perhaps involving a virus that slipped into the facility under the radar amid legitimate research efforts.
  
  But the Wuhan Institute of Virology remains something of a black box. Critics say the WHO investigators who delivered a report on the virus origin did only a cursory investigation of the institute. They also note that the WHO investigators included Peter Daszak, president of the EcoHealth Alliance, an organization that directed a grant from Fauci’s institute to the Wuhan lab. Daszak also signed the 2020 Lancet letter denouncing conspiracy theories about a lab origin.
  
  Even the director general of the WHO, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, distanced himself from the WHO report’s dismissal of the lab theory and called for a more thorough investigation.
  
  That was followed by calls from scientists to probe more deeply into lab-leak scenarios. The letter to the journal Science, in particular, helped put the imprimatur of mainstream science on an idea previously marginalized as a conspiracy theory.
  
  Perlman said he would not have signed the letter if asked, because of “false balance.”
  
  “It made it sound like all possibilities are equal, which I don’t think is true,” Perlman said.
  
  “There isn’t any balance of plausibility,” Columbia University epidemiologist W. Ian Lipkin said.
  
  Stanford University microbiologist David A. Relman, one of the organizers of the letter to Science, said the political climate last year made many scientists hesitant to express openness to the lab-leak idea. They did not want to align themselves with a theory closely associated with Trump and his allies, who referred to the coronavirus as “the China virus.”
  
  Relman took the leap, though: In November, he published an essay in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences discussing possible origins of SARS-CoV-2, including laboratory manipulation: “Even though a definitive answer may not be forthcoming, and even though an objective analysis requires addressing some uncomfortable possibilities, it is crucial that we pursue this question.”
  
  Relman said two scientists who were asked to sign the letter to Science expressed concern that it could contribute to anti-Asian bigotry. Only one signed. Relman noted that the letter concluded with an affirmation of support for Chinese scientists fighting the pandemic.
  
  Relman said he goes back and forth on whether a natural or laboratory origin of SARS-CoV-2 is more likely. He is open to the possibility that Chinese officials haven’t been forthcoming about their laboratory experiments.
  
  “It seems more likely that either the virus was grown unknowingly and produced an asymptomatic infection, and none of that was recognized, or a laboratory worker infected themselves unknowingly during collection of samples from a natural viral reservoir, like a cave with bats,” Relman said.
  
  “It is also theoretically possible there was some engineering going on there with some recent ancestor viruses that haven’t been talked about, that haven’t been published,” he said. “That would then suggest there has been a deliberate effort to not talk about some work that was going on there.”
  
  Some scientists are dismayed by what they’re reading and hearing. They think the case for natural zoonosis remains strong. A significant fraction of early coronavirus infections were linked to a sprawling Wuhan market where, according to the WHO report, traces of SARS-CoV-2 were found in drains and other surfaces near animal stalls.
  
  A report published this month in the journal Nature said the Wuhan markets in the 2½ years before the pandemic sold more than 47,000 animals from 38 species, including raccoon dogs, weasels, badgers, hedgehogs, marmots, minks, bamboo rats and flying squirrels. SARS-CoV-2 has been shown to be a highly precocious virus that can infect many different kinds of animals. It has been found in domesticated and stray cats across Wuhan.
  
  Although tens of thousands of animals have been tested in China in the search for the intermediate host, researchers have not found a precursor strain of SARS-CoV-2. The animal origins of many zoonotic diseases, including Ebola, have never been conclusively established. Surveillance of viruses capable of jumping into the human species remains spotty.
  
  “Somewhere it’s out there, and there’s a ton of it, and we just haven’t flipped over enough stones yet,” said Benjamin Neuman, a virologist at Texas A&M University who, like Perlman, was one of the scientists who gave SARS-CoV-2 its name in early 2020.
  
  He is irritated that some fellow virologists have lent weight to the lab-leak idea.
  
  “This is distressing,” he said. “I feel like they’re taking the lab coat off when they say these things.”
  
  Robert F. Garry Jr., a Tulane University virologist who co-authored an influential Nature Medicine paper in March 2020 saying SARS-CoV-2 was not engineered, is similarly emphatic that a natural origin outside of a lab remains most likely. He said the virus has genetic features that “scream” natural evolution. He noted the clustering of early cases linked to the market and pointed out that the virus has mutated into more transmissible variants — a sign, he said, that the virus is still adapting to the human species.
  
  “I think people are frustrated, and a lot of people are looking for somebody to hang this on,” he said. He added, “You can’t get over the fact that the outbreak started in Wuhan and there’s a large institute of virology that studies coronaviruses there.”
  
  A fact sheet posted by the State Department on Jan. 15, during the final days of the Trump administration, said several people who worked at the Wuhan Institute of Virology were hospitalized in fall 2019 with symptoms consistent with covid-19 or seasonal influenza. There has been no public documentation of who these workers were, their medical diagnoses or any illnesses among their close contacts.
  
  The controversy put a spotlight on earlier documented instances in which a laboratory accident led to an infection. For example, nine SARS infections in 2004 were traced to laboratory research in Beijing that came after the original outbreak of SARS. And in 1977, Russian research on influenza may have led to the escape of a flu strain that became pandemic.
  
  At the center of the Wuhan lab controversy is Shi Zhengli, a world-renowned coronavirus researcher who has collaborated with U.S. scientists. Shi has said she scoured records in her lab and found no evidence that SARS-CoV-2 was ever present. In an interview with the journal Science last year, she said Trump’s allegations jeopardized the academic work and personal lives of her team, adding, “He owes us an apology.”
  
  Although they may be skeptical about a colleague’s research findings, scientists generally assume their colleagues in the international scientific community are honest. But there are lab-leak scenarios that do not require deception. Accidents can happen unknowingly.
  
  Lipkin, the Columbia epidemiologist, was a co-author of the Nature Medicine paper saying the virus was not engineered, and he hasn’t changed his mind. But he has hedged his assessment in recent months, as first noted in a Medium post by science journalist Donald G. McNeil Jr. Lipkin said it’s possible that the Wuhan scientists had the coronavirus in-house and simply didn’t realize it.
  
  “If they’ve got hundreds of bat samples that are coming in, and some of them aren’t characterized, how would they know whether this virus was or wasn’t in this lab? They wouldn’t,” Lipkin said.
  
  Lipkin said two scientific papers co-authored by Shi indicated bat coronaviruses were handled in biosafety level 2 laboratories, rather than more secure BSL-3 or BSL-4 labs. That raises the possibility of sloppy handling of a dangerous virus, he said.
  
  An accidental infection in a lab with an undocumented virus would be nearly impossible to distinguish from one that occurred outside the lab, he said.
  
  “We may never know where this thing came from,” Lipkin said.
  
  Science is not a list of knowns so much as a process of exploring the unknown, and scientists by nature are comfortable with uncertainty, ambiguity and provisional conclusions. But the pandemic is a global catastrophe that has killed and sickened millions of people, and there are demands for definitive answers about how this happened. Scientists may never be able to provide answers that satisfy everyone.
  
  “On both sides, there’s really a lack of information. That’s why we have such extensive discussions and, in some cases, vituperative discussions,” Perlman said. “There’s really no data. It’s really just opinions.”

[Kellemora]

Mighty long read, but they blatantly missed something very important.

Sars-Cov was PATENTED back in 2001 if I recall the date correctly.

You cannot Patent a naturally occurring anything. You can only Patent something that is man-made!
If it was found to be naturally occurring the Patent would be withdrawn, and possibly fines given to the patent holders.

It is too late now to find what they might claim is a natural source, since the virus is now out there.
We know it was leaked from the Lab who created it. That is the only way it could have spread.

I know you believe what CDC and WHO says:
Well here ya go! A whole article about SARS Patents from WHO!
https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/83/9/707.pdf

[yogi]

Mass quantities of people are dying from what you call a patented virus. I'm doing what I can to avoid that scenario. Not everyone would do the same. I know that.

[Kellemora]

I stay safe at home, in my garage office away from everyone and everything, hi hi.

The frau had both of her shots, but even so, we stay away from each other, especially during eating times.
I eat at the breakfast nook in the kitchen, and she eats in her recliner in the living room.

[yogi]

You got to go with what your doctors advise you to do. Judging by what you write here I think you are doing all the right things to remain safe and healthy. The vaccine strengthens the immune system, unless it has been compromised by some other medical condition. Whether or not that is beneficial to you isn't anything we write here can determine. I just get a little concerned about all the misinformation out there and the number of people who fall for it. Apparently now that they ran out of hospital beds in many southern states people are taking a second look at mitigation.

[ocelotl]

Mainly the issue with the kinds of vaccines released is that the tests done to approve them, even when the protocols used have been thorough, have been just rushed in order to obtain usable vaccines. I think that the concern of long term issues is the key factor in this discussion, apart of the technologies used in obtaining each of the currently used vaccines. An expert advice would be welcome, but neither of the three of us are, so it relays on the way we can get medical doctors' advice. Neither of the immediate family (Mom, dad, sis, BIL and me) have had adverse issues beyond short term itch on the shot point (Next to our BCG scars) from the AZ one, yet I know annecdotical data is not scientific proof.

I've heard that Moderna's head honcho had said that they are preparing for yearly reinforcements and that given a donation request from our government COFEPRIS had to do the paperwork to include the Moderna vaccine into the approved list for Mexican Population, which didn't happen before since Moderna's vaccine seems to be the costliest around and wasn't considered for purchase by the Health Secretariat.

This story is not ending soon, and we'll have to see and hear a lot of stuff before we can safely said we left all this in the past.