Avatar Issues
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Any topic is acceptable, and topic drift is permissible.
Avatar Issues
It has come to my attention that certain avatar pictures are no longer visible in our forums. Apparently, for reasons unknown at this moment, those avatars which were uploaded, as opposed to those already in our gallery, cannow be viewed by regular users. Oddly enough the site administrator has no such problems. That privileged view immediately brings to mind a possible permissions problem, but I have not been able to identify the source as of this writing. If you really really need an avatar, you can select one from the many in our gallery. That should work until I figure out how to fix the problem associated with uploading.
Re: Avatar Issues
Mine are working. I don't remember if I used a jpg or png image for mine.
But I do know those using bmp, or gif especially, do not appear on a lot of websites.
I had used a gif image with animation on some, but on a few it was static, no movement.
A friend took down one of her websites that got attacked with ransomware.
Like me, it killed all the jpg images.
So she opened a new website and would only allow png or tif images on it.
Then a little later she said no more tif images, only png are allowed.
So I assume she has control over which are allowed and which are not.
But I do know those using bmp, or gif especially, do not appear on a lot of websites.
I had used a gif image with animation on some, but on a few it was static, no movement.
A friend took down one of her websites that got attacked with ransomware.
Like me, it killed all the jpg images.
So she opened a new website and would only allow png or tif images on it.
Then a little later she said no more tif images, only png are allowed.
So I assume she has control over which are allowed and which are not.
Re: Avatar Issues
The Issue is fixed now. When I did the upgrade I neglected to upload a directory which contains a single .html file. The folks at the phpBB forums picked that up right away. If I knew how this software actually works, I might have found that omission on my own. 
Your avatar picture as well as the one for the forumadmin were uploaded and reside in a directory for such things on our server. Your picture is of a .jpg format by the way. I replaced the Yogi avatar picture with one from the gallery which is why you were able to see it. I can't explain why you were able to see your own avatar, however. Be that all as it may, things seem to be working swimmingly at the moment. I'll now be able to update the site logos for the new style template.
A few days ago I read about a sophisticated ransomeware attack that installed itself in seven stages. The initial code embeds itself into a system process and looks like a normal transaction to any malware detection software. At some point along the seven stages an innocuous image is downloaded and inside that image is the code that activates the payload previously embedded into the system. The whole point of this is to remain undetectable and not use any foreign files for code execution.
I also read about a system being developed by Microsoft which in essence will attach authenticity certificates to images. As is the case now with file encryption there is a trusted source that keeps track of the public and private keys for images. If you try to download an image and the public key doesn't match, a red flag is raised and thus prevents you from putting any image files on your computer that are not authentic. They claim all this business with the keys will be transparent much the same as downloading software already is. Apparently hiding malicious code inside image files is becoming a big thing and Microsoft is starting to take it seriously.
I was warned by our hosting service about just such a thing several years ago. They in fact changed their server policies to disallow posting of links and images, which at that time was a big part of the activity here. Today you and I could probably do without, but it's too late. I cried enough to get the hosting service to change back to their original policy. LOL
Your avatar picture as well as the one for the forumadmin were uploaded and reside in a directory for such things on our server. Your picture is of a .jpg format by the way. I replaced the Yogi avatar picture with one from the gallery which is why you were able to see it. I can't explain why you were able to see your own avatar, however. Be that all as it may, things seem to be working swimmingly at the moment. I'll now be able to update the site logos for the new style template.
A few days ago I read about a sophisticated ransomeware attack that installed itself in seven stages. The initial code embeds itself into a system process and looks like a normal transaction to any malware detection software. At some point along the seven stages an innocuous image is downloaded and inside that image is the code that activates the payload previously embedded into the system. The whole point of this is to remain undetectable and not use any foreign files for code execution.
I also read about a system being developed by Microsoft which in essence will attach authenticity certificates to images. As is the case now with file encryption there is a trusted source that keeps track of the public and private keys for images. If you try to download an image and the public key doesn't match, a red flag is raised and thus prevents you from putting any image files on your computer that are not authentic. They claim all this business with the keys will be transparent much the same as downloading software already is. Apparently hiding malicious code inside image files is becoming a big thing and Microsoft is starting to take it seriously.
I was warned by our hosting service about just such a thing several years ago. They in fact changed their server policies to disallow posting of links and images, which at that time was a big part of the activity here. Today you and I could probably do without, but it's too late. I cried enough to get the hosting service to change back to their original policy. LOL
Re: Avatar Issues
I rarely upload images to a website, but I take some precautionary steps before I do, and wish the frau would do the same.
Uploading an image from her cell phone has tons of data hidden in it. Sometimes even to the GPS coordinates the image was taken.
Every image I upload anywhere, even on my own websites, I first convert to a BMP which strips all data, then back to a jpg, or png. Then I will go in and add my own data if I feel like it, or just leave it blank.
I don't know if it is relevant anymore, but when I used to upload PDF files if importance. I would make them read only and I would go in and add information on certain pages first in black text, then convert the text to the color of the background.
This way no one could see what was written there. Just in case they copied it and removed the visible copyright data from the page or pages it was on. But today's programs let folks open read only PDF files for editing. And if they copy to a white background, or to a colored background if it was done on white, then they see my little notices.
I also had a few documents and images I made and replaced after the fact. Which if somebody looked close enough or snooped deep enough they would see the dates of creation.
Now with computers dates adjusted live through date servers, you have to turn that off, or like I did, I always kept an older computer off-line. Namely my accounting computer, which logs the data entry dates, hi hi.
It looks a little strange if you have a document with a copyright date on it, and the creation date of the document was seven years after the fact. But this is what happens if you take an original text file done in an old program like wordstar or in notepad and cut n paste it to a modern word processor. You also don't want to date something earlier than the program you supposedly created it on was made either. So just to be safe, I keep the original file, and put a note on the new document that the original file is stored in file cabinet C, drawer 3, folder name. This information is like I mentioned before, entered in black, then converted to white text. So I know which documents have some secret writing on them, I will place a grave accent in an inconspicuous place where I know to look for it. On formal letters this is usually where I put the typists initials. GVJD` or if I use document numbers I place it with the number.
Many of the photo's I have taken and uploaded, in the hidden data area, I might write YOU STOLE THIS FROM ME, hi hi.
Uploading an image from her cell phone has tons of data hidden in it. Sometimes even to the GPS coordinates the image was taken.
Every image I upload anywhere, even on my own websites, I first convert to a BMP which strips all data, then back to a jpg, or png. Then I will go in and add my own data if I feel like it, or just leave it blank.
I don't know if it is relevant anymore, but when I used to upload PDF files if importance. I would make them read only and I would go in and add information on certain pages first in black text, then convert the text to the color of the background.
This way no one could see what was written there. Just in case they copied it and removed the visible copyright data from the page or pages it was on. But today's programs let folks open read only PDF files for editing. And if they copy to a white background, or to a colored background if it was done on white, then they see my little notices.
I also had a few documents and images I made and replaced after the fact. Which if somebody looked close enough or snooped deep enough they would see the dates of creation.
Now with computers dates adjusted live through date servers, you have to turn that off, or like I did, I always kept an older computer off-line. Namely my accounting computer, which logs the data entry dates, hi hi.
It looks a little strange if you have a document with a copyright date on it, and the creation date of the document was seven years after the fact. But this is what happens if you take an original text file done in an old program like wordstar or in notepad and cut n paste it to a modern word processor. You also don't want to date something earlier than the program you supposedly created it on was made either. So just to be safe, I keep the original file, and put a note on the new document that the original file is stored in file cabinet C, drawer 3, folder name. This information is like I mentioned before, entered in black, then converted to white text. So I know which documents have some secret writing on them, I will place a grave accent in an inconspicuous place where I know to look for it. On formal letters this is usually where I put the typists initials. GVJD` or if I use document numbers I place it with the number.
Many of the photo's I have taken and uploaded, in the hidden data area, I might write YOU STOLE THIS FROM ME, hi hi.
Re: Avatar Issues
If you are trying to protect copyrighted material I suppose it becomes necessary to go through the extremes you describe. Most of that metadata is meaningless and doesn't matter if it's public information or not. You could get paranoid about GPS coordinates, but on my Android computer I have the option of turning that off. Few people know how to retrieve it anyway and it's basically marketing information for Google. There are some programs for Windows that allow you to edit the metadata, and there is also a switch in the object's properties that clears it if you select it. I know that information is all there, but I never had a need to alter it.
HP and just about all the other printer manufacturers have hidden dots on every document it prints. This allows people to track the printed copy back to the specific device on which it was printed. You could get paranoid about that too, but unless you are doing something illegal it's useless information.
HP and just about all the other printer manufacturers have hidden dots on every document it prints. This allows people to track the printed copy back to the specific device on which it was printed. You could get paranoid about that too, but unless you are doing something illegal it's useless information.
Re: Avatar Issues
You had mentioned those dots once before. And I could not find them, not even using a Sans and Streif horticultural microscope. I also scanned a page and zoomed in on it looking for even a faint yellow dot or two. About the only thing I learned is paper looks almost like bits of hair if you zoom in far enough, hi hi.
Now I do know this. Font makers add stuff inside the actual letters, usually the Letter M, that under a microscope you can see their logo or foundry number. To really see them, you need to use a fairly slick paper and a laser printer. You can't see them on ink jets due to the ink bleed on the paper.
When I worked at a newspaper, we had a film typographer, so all the galley strips were made using photography. With a simple magnifying glass, looking at the film itself, you could see all kinds of data. It was harder to see on the galley strips, and impossible after the pages of the newspaper were printed.
Man that was a lot of years ago. Now everything is done using computers, hi hi. Just like drafting!
Burglars check posted images, especially they are taken inside a home, looking for the coordinates.
This is why I won't let Debi post something expensive she is selling on one of the local sale websites.
I make her upload it to her computer, and then I will use a program that lets you see all the microdata hidden on it.
Normal readers, even if the say they show microdata don't show all of it, and usually it is not editable.
I have programs that let me edit all of the data, or delete all of it easily.
Even so, it is just as easy to convert to bmp and back to jpg and that wipes out everything.
Now I do know this. Font makers add stuff inside the actual letters, usually the Letter M, that under a microscope you can see their logo or foundry number. To really see them, you need to use a fairly slick paper and a laser printer. You can't see them on ink jets due to the ink bleed on the paper.
When I worked at a newspaper, we had a film typographer, so all the galley strips were made using photography. With a simple magnifying glass, looking at the film itself, you could see all kinds of data. It was harder to see on the galley strips, and impossible after the pages of the newspaper were printed.
Man that was a lot of years ago. Now everything is done using computers, hi hi. Just like drafting!
Burglars check posted images, especially they are taken inside a home, looking for the coordinates.
This is why I won't let Debi post something expensive she is selling on one of the local sale websites.
I make her upload it to her computer, and then I will use a program that lets you see all the microdata hidden on it.
Normal readers, even if the say they show microdata don't show all of it, and usually it is not editable.
I have programs that let me edit all of the data, or delete all of it easily.
Even so, it is just as easy to convert to bmp and back to jpg and that wipes out everything.
Re: Avatar Issues
From what I understand the tracking dots printed by most printers are yellow and placed on any white space that is available. I believe they are clearly visible under UV light, but you do have to know what you are looking for. The coding is all binary and hexidecimal, which if I recall correctly depicts the serial number of the printer. I have seen these dots but I can't tell you that I've seen them on my own printer. It seems like there was a trick to get them to show up better, such as printing a page with a single character on it. The other thing about the ID dots is that there is no standard saying where they should be placed or what size they should be. Even the coding is not specified. The government mandate from which this all came merely says printers have to self ID. Figure out how to do it. This came up a couple years ago when somebody leaked some documents that were secret. They found the printer and the time stamp using the yellow dots and then figured out who was anywhere near the printer at that particular time. I think they are doing prison time as I write this.
The meta data I 'm talking about for images is Exif ( Exchangeable Image File Format ) and easily seen in the properties of most files. I don't think GPS information is part of the standard but it is in fact added by certain people such as Google. In my case it's an opt in thing, which of course I do not do. However, even if you strip the image clean, the app might add your location separately. This has been an issue with Facebook in the past, and I don't know how that has been resolved or if it has been. In other words, cleaning the images you post is only half the battle.
The meta data I 'm talking about for images is Exif ( Exchangeable Image File Format ) and easily seen in the properties of most files. I don't think GPS information is part of the standard but it is in fact added by certain people such as Google. In my case it's an opt in thing, which of course I do not do. However, even if you strip the image clean, the app might add your location separately. This has been an issue with Facebook in the past, and I don't know how that has been resolved or if it has been. In other words, cleaning the images you post is only half the battle.
Re: Avatar Issues
At one time I had a real blacklight, but you dare not use it like a blacklight blue because it would blind you.
The company who sold it to me should have never sold it to an individual, as it was a replacement lamp for some type of machine. Had I ever figured out how to fire that sucker up, I would probably have been blinded by it.
But you made me do it. I went down to the house and grabbed a little blacklight blue fluorescent and looked at several papers under it. Did not see anything. Then I went and plugged in the bug lamp and held it over a few pages, still nothing.
I even looked at some pages printed out by my doctor, like the ones with my recent report and for my next appointment.
Didn't see anything there either. Maybe it takes some other type of light. Or have the wrong type of blacklight blue.
If I get a chance, I'll try using the ozone light and see what happens.
Yeppers, I know about Farcebook adding our location to posts.
Also, if Debi posts from her Schmartz-fone it says where she is at the time too.
I think I mentioned we are up in arms with the cities mapping department for showing us in Vestal.
They have moved all the little neighborhoods inside the city limits around to different places than where they really are.
What was the Vestal Neighborhood no longer show it as Vestal anymore.
All of Knoxville south of the river was known as South Knoxville.
Now they picked one small area on the other side of the highway to call South Knoxville, as a neighborhood.
Strange things going on here Yogi, very strange!
I live in Plaza Park, not Vestal.
North of us is Southland Park, and north of them is a couple of more neighborhoods before you get to Vestal, which is on the other side of the L&N railroad tracks.
The company who sold it to me should have never sold it to an individual, as it was a replacement lamp for some type of machine. Had I ever figured out how to fire that sucker up, I would probably have been blinded by it.
But you made me do it. I went down to the house and grabbed a little blacklight blue fluorescent and looked at several papers under it. Did not see anything. Then I went and plugged in the bug lamp and held it over a few pages, still nothing.
I even looked at some pages printed out by my doctor, like the ones with my recent report and for my next appointment.
Didn't see anything there either. Maybe it takes some other type of light. Or have the wrong type of blacklight blue.
If I get a chance, I'll try using the ozone light and see what happens.
Yeppers, I know about Farcebook adding our location to posts.
Also, if Debi posts from her Schmartz-fone it says where she is at the time too.
I think I mentioned we are up in arms with the cities mapping department for showing us in Vestal.
They have moved all the little neighborhoods inside the city limits around to different places than where they really are.
What was the Vestal Neighborhood no longer show it as Vestal anymore.
All of Knoxville south of the river was known as South Knoxville.
Now they picked one small area on the other side of the highway to call South Knoxville, as a neighborhood.
Strange things going on here Yogi, very strange!
I live in Plaza Park, not Vestal.
North of us is Southland Park, and north of them is a couple of more neighborhoods before you get to Vestal, which is on the other side of the L&N railroad tracks.
Re: Avatar Issues
I don't know what to tell you about the printer dots. The only reason I know about them is by reading about the document leaker who was traced by using the dots. The article I recall showed columns of dots that represented numbers. For all I know they were microscopic, but could also have been spread across an entire page. They said this identification has been in place for a long time so that your newest printer should be doing it. Then again, maybe it's not a real law and just a guideline that isn't followed by everybody.
It certainly is interesting to learn they are renaming the places where you live around Knoxville. Being the cynical dude that I am, I would say they are setting up a pattern for voting districts that favor one party or another. Places like Georgia and Mississippi have lost a lot of voters by redistricting, and I'd not be surprised if Tennessee is in on the same game. Apparently some places fear what the popular vote would show and are trying to arrange things in their favor. But, that's just a suspicion on my part. It could just be a crazed cartographer having a field day.
It certainly is interesting to learn they are renaming the places where you live around Knoxville. Being the cynical dude that I am, I would say they are setting up a pattern for voting districts that favor one party or another. Places like Georgia and Mississippi have lost a lot of voters by redistricting, and I'd not be surprised if Tennessee is in on the same game. Apparently some places fear what the popular vote would show and are trying to arrange things in their favor. But, that's just a suspicion on my part. It could just be a crazed cartographer having a field day.
Re: Avatar Issues
As I said I would do, I got the UV light and YES they are there, ALL OVER THE PAGE, must be a code though.
Now that I know they are there, I learned a little trick.
Print a page. Scan it as an image file. Open the Image and convert yellow to black.
The page is covered with little 16x16 blocks of data, looks almost like graph paper, hi hi.
The purpose was to stop counterfeiters but is also used to reassemble shredded documents if necessary.
So, if you registered your warranty for the printer, they know where to come get you, hi hi.
Or if you used a credit card to make the purchase, the store that sold the printer has your bank data also, and of course the bank knows who has the credit card, hi hi.
BIG BROTHER is watching US!
Moving our neighborhoods around probably has more to do with funding for projects, since we have voting districts, and school districts, and yes they do change the boundaries of those also.
What used to be the Vestal Neighborhood, I think is going to be renamed something that coincides with the Riverfront Project. The people who live in Vestal gained more land when a park was established, so their southern boundary line was moved many years ago to include the park. Basically all it did was move from the RR tracks to the street that ran along the RR tracks is all. But that's the way it has been for over 50 years.
All I can say is a LOT of us who live in the Parks Neighborhood, meaning Southland Park and Plaza Park combined neighborhoods, are up in arms over this. It is more than just demeaning to us. Our neighborhoods are no longer recognized.
Companies just north of Southland Park are ELATED because they are getting funds for area renovation. Brick walkways, wider roads, wasted land turned into like a park with a big arched sign that says Vestal Community on it.
Hell, Vestal has NEVER ran that for south, and now they have included all the way to the Knoxville City Line south of my house.
I'll be you boots to dollars, they are going to ADD a TAX to our property tax for Vestal Redevelopment Costs!
Now that I know they are there, I learned a little trick.
Print a page. Scan it as an image file. Open the Image and convert yellow to black.
The page is covered with little 16x16 blocks of data, looks almost like graph paper, hi hi.
The purpose was to stop counterfeiters but is also used to reassemble shredded documents if necessary.
So, if you registered your warranty for the printer, they know where to come get you, hi hi.
Or if you used a credit card to make the purchase, the store that sold the printer has your bank data also, and of course the bank knows who has the credit card, hi hi.
BIG BROTHER is watching US!
Moving our neighborhoods around probably has more to do with funding for projects, since we have voting districts, and school districts, and yes they do change the boundaries of those also.
What used to be the Vestal Neighborhood, I think is going to be renamed something that coincides with the Riverfront Project. The people who live in Vestal gained more land when a park was established, so their southern boundary line was moved many years ago to include the park. Basically all it did was move from the RR tracks to the street that ran along the RR tracks is all. But that's the way it has been for over 50 years.
All I can say is a LOT of us who live in the Parks Neighborhood, meaning Southland Park and Plaza Park combined neighborhoods, are up in arms over this. It is more than just demeaning to us. Our neighborhoods are no longer recognized.
Companies just north of Southland Park are ELATED because they are getting funds for area renovation. Brick walkways, wider roads, wasted land turned into like a park with a big arched sign that says Vestal Community on it.
Hell, Vestal has NEVER ran that for south, and now they have included all the way to the Knoxville City Line south of my house.
I'll be you boots to dollars, they are going to ADD a TAX to our property tax for Vestal Redevelopment Costs!
Re: Avatar Issues
I am very relieved that you found those dots. For a while there I was thinking that I might be remembering things that never happened. When you are abducted by aliens, that's what they do to your brain in order to make you forget what they did to you.
There are all sorts of reasons to change political boundaries. A lot of it makes sense if you knew the reasoning behind it. Much of it is just corruption that pushes somebody's agenda. There are always winners and losers when redistricting occurs, but hopefully the people you elected to do such things have your best interests in mind. Plus, I would agree with your speculation. If "improvements" are involved, somebody is going to pay for them.
As far as reputation is concerned, I don't think I would like being associated with a lower class. But then, it's all just a name game. The people are the same and they will continue behaving as they always have. It really doesn't matter what they call you on a map or what image people get when they see the name.
There are all sorts of reasons to change political boundaries. A lot of it makes sense if you knew the reasoning behind it. Much of it is just corruption that pushes somebody's agenda. There are always winners and losers when redistricting occurs, but hopefully the people you elected to do such things have your best interests in mind. Plus, I would agree with your speculation. If "improvements" are involved, somebody is going to pay for them.
As far as reputation is concerned, I don't think I would like being associated with a lower class. But then, it's all just a name game. The people are the same and they will continue behaving as they always have. It really doesn't matter what they call you on a map or what image people get when they see the name.
Re: Avatar Issues
I know you are not familiar with the municipal names in Missouri much.
And although they have grown considerably over the years, Valley Park is and will always be a river rat town.
How would people take it if they renamed Kirkwood, Valley Park. I don't think it would go over very big.
Although here we are talking about neighborhoods not municipalities, although some of them are incorporated, and inside of the City of Knoxville, which is also incorporated. That one threw me for a loop also.
The Vestal Community or Neighborhood is on a par with Valley Park, it's a river rat town.
The Community or Neighborhood I live in is NOT upscale like Creve Coeur was.
But is more on a par with Manchester, Ballwin, or Ellisville.
Not quite as upscale as Kirkwood or Des Peres.
However, we are talking about the residential, not the commercial that has grown so much.
A neighborhood consists of all the people who live in that neighborhood.
Like Lafayette Square or Soulard, or Bevo Mill areas in St. Louis.
You can't just pick up the name Lafayette Square and move it to Soulard and call Soulard Lafayette Square.
But that is what they are doing here.
The Vestal people have not moved to our area. If anything they moved further west if they moved at all.
I REFUSE to call Plaza Park, Vestal. I won't do it!
And although they have grown considerably over the years, Valley Park is and will always be a river rat town.
How would people take it if they renamed Kirkwood, Valley Park. I don't think it would go over very big.
Although here we are talking about neighborhoods not municipalities, although some of them are incorporated, and inside of the City of Knoxville, which is also incorporated. That one threw me for a loop also.
The Vestal Community or Neighborhood is on a par with Valley Park, it's a river rat town.
The Community or Neighborhood I live in is NOT upscale like Creve Coeur was.
But is more on a par with Manchester, Ballwin, or Ellisville.
Not quite as upscale as Kirkwood or Des Peres.
However, we are talking about the residential, not the commercial that has grown so much.
A neighborhood consists of all the people who live in that neighborhood.
Like Lafayette Square or Soulard, or Bevo Mill areas in St. Louis.
You can't just pick up the name Lafayette Square and move it to Soulard and call Soulard Lafayette Square.
But that is what they are doing here.
The Vestal people have not moved to our area. If anything they moved further west if they moved at all.
I REFUSE to call Plaza Park, Vestal. I won't do it!
Re: Avatar Issues
I'm not suggesting that you or your neighbors have to like or accept the new naming convention. I do understand what you are talking about because I grew up in a neighborhood with a name when I lived in Chicago. It was all pretty much ethnic related and you better not have confused the Italian 'hood with the Polish 'hood lest you don't value your life. Today both those neighborhoods are Mexican and Puerto Rican dominated but they still go by the old traditional names. What does that tell me (or you)? The name means nothing in my case. I am who I am and always will be. I'll tell you I grew up in Cragin and be proud of it no matter who lives there today. And, you are right to say I don't know much about the neighborhoods which surround me or the one in which I live for that matter. Call me Valley Park. I don't care. It means nothing to me even now that you gave me a brief history of those folks. LOL
Re: Avatar Issues
Although I was very proud to have been raised in Des Peres, I wouldn't give you two cents for it now.
But our family and its history is what built Des Peres in the first place. Not that it ever did us any good, hi hi.
That being said, Missouri is one of those states that is VERY Class Oriented.
You know how much people earn, and often what religions or ethnic groups they belong to, just by their address.
Although things have changed somewhat, it is still fairly class oriented.
Some millionaires live in Valley Park, and some poor people (like me) lived in Creve Coeur, hi hi.
Down here was a little different. You could have a half-million dollar house and right next door a trailer, and on the other side a shack. They had no building zones here for years, and still don't in some areas.
When Debi was growing up, like in many places, there was a grocery store a block away, and a shoe store on the next block, all in residential neighborhoods. I've never had anything against small grocery stores, pharmacies, or other small stores of often necessity built in residential areas.
But here, you can have a big manufacturing company, with houses all around it.
How that started was the big companies would build houses for their employees back in the 1870's to 1920's.
But that sorta changed, even then, and a street would have Row Houses on either side, aka cookie cutter houses.
Those who could afford to move out of the company houses would end up buying row houses first, then perhaps upgrading later on.
That is how Vestal got its start!
All of the subdivisions south of Maryville Pike were built in the late '40s and early '50s. Lower cost home were closer to Maryville pike, and higher cost homes spread southward from their. The two subdivision I mentioned were built after the zoning laws came into place. So all of the lots were at least 1/2 acre and all the houses were at least 875 sq. ft. or larger. Which was fairly big for that era of common homes. There was a 1,200 sq. ft. limit on houses in our subdivision at the time, so a few built two-story houses, but not many. Tin roofing was also not allowed, but that changed about 20 years ago, as nicer looking tin roofs became available. And probably a poly-TICK-ian had stock in a couple of them.
From our area, the urban expansion moved westward and new zones and minimum size and quality of construction kept getting upped the further west you moved.
Typical of how most cities grew!
But our family and its history is what built Des Peres in the first place. Not that it ever did us any good, hi hi.
That being said, Missouri is one of those states that is VERY Class Oriented.
You know how much people earn, and often what religions or ethnic groups they belong to, just by their address.
Although things have changed somewhat, it is still fairly class oriented.
Some millionaires live in Valley Park, and some poor people (like me) lived in Creve Coeur, hi hi.
Down here was a little different. You could have a half-million dollar house and right next door a trailer, and on the other side a shack. They had no building zones here for years, and still don't in some areas.
When Debi was growing up, like in many places, there was a grocery store a block away, and a shoe store on the next block, all in residential neighborhoods. I've never had anything against small grocery stores, pharmacies, or other small stores of often necessity built in residential areas.
But here, you can have a big manufacturing company, with houses all around it.
How that started was the big companies would build houses for their employees back in the 1870's to 1920's.
But that sorta changed, even then, and a street would have Row Houses on either side, aka cookie cutter houses.
Those who could afford to move out of the company houses would end up buying row houses first, then perhaps upgrading later on.
That is how Vestal got its start!
All of the subdivisions south of Maryville Pike were built in the late '40s and early '50s. Lower cost home were closer to Maryville pike, and higher cost homes spread southward from their. The two subdivision I mentioned were built after the zoning laws came into place. So all of the lots were at least 1/2 acre and all the houses were at least 875 sq. ft. or larger. Which was fairly big for that era of common homes. There was a 1,200 sq. ft. limit on houses in our subdivision at the time, so a few built two-story houses, but not many. Tin roofing was also not allowed, but that changed about 20 years ago, as nicer looking tin roofs became available. And probably a poly-TICK-ian had stock in a couple of them.
From our area, the urban expansion moved westward and new zones and minimum size and quality of construction kept getting upped the further west you moved.
Typical of how most cities grew!
Re: Avatar Issues
I came to Missouri from a very "diverse" demographic in a suburb of Chicago. That means people of every skin color imaginable were my neighbors. It got kind of creepy after a few years because in the city of Chicago itself there was no such diversity. There were "neighborhoods" and you knew which ones you were not to live in. When I got to the burbs and everybody seemed to be getting along, it was quite a revelation.
Then I came to O'Fallon. While I didn't know in advance for certain, I expected a dominance of Irish Catholic blood to be about the city. Well, there are indeed more red haired people here than I've seen elsewhere, but I doubt that Irish ethnicity dominates the demographics. I can say everybody is that proverbial "middle class" economically. To be perfectly honest, the folks here are more friendly than the Windy City folks, but I also discovered it's somewhat artificial. They are all good people when you meet them in public, but that's it. Part of it is my fault for not reaching out, but I don't know any of the neighbors nor do anything communal with them. Some of that is due to me being old and retired while the rest of the crowd is busy being pregnant and earning a living. I also have a feeling some of it is due to me "not growing up in these parts." It's hard to call it class consciousness, but there definitely is a distinction among the natives.
Then I came to O'Fallon. While I didn't know in advance for certain, I expected a dominance of Irish Catholic blood to be about the city. Well, there are indeed more red haired people here than I've seen elsewhere, but I doubt that Irish ethnicity dominates the demographics. I can say everybody is that proverbial "middle class" economically. To be perfectly honest, the folks here are more friendly than the Windy City folks, but I also discovered it's somewhat artificial. They are all good people when you meet them in public, but that's it. Part of it is my fault for not reaching out, but I don't know any of the neighbors nor do anything communal with them. Some of that is due to me being old and retired while the rest of the crowd is busy being pregnant and earning a living. I also have a feeling some of it is due to me "not growing up in these parts." It's hard to call it class consciousness, but there definitely is a distinction among the natives.
Re: Avatar Issues
When you grow up in a given area, you learn one heck of a lot of valuable information.
You know what companies have the best deals, highest quality, at the lowest price.
You learn what areas or not really safe to go into at 3am in the morning, and which areas you would be safe all night long.
Because you all went to school and played together, you knew where most of the kids lived, so later knew their parents homes on site. And with your best friends, you know where they moved after they got married, and sometimes stay in touch.
And most of the time, you knew all the neighbors up and down your street and perhaps the neighbors behind you.
But as you said, when we get older, and get ripped away from everyone and everything we knew.
Being parked in a new city where everything is unfamiliar, and in my case, nothing is logical down here.
You are really lost, and it seems we never recover our loss of where to go and what to do.
Now we rely on our GPS to get us someplace we need to visit, and get us back home again.
We might check out several different places at different times, to see which one really has the best deals, and build up our new repertoire of our area. But it is minuscule in comparison to all we knew about our home area.
Ironically, when I was driving OTR, I had much less trouble in new towns I delivered to than I do here.
First off, we had our CB radios and conversed with other drivers, some who were locals.
They always knew the best places to eat where you could park your rig to eat that is.
The cleanest and cheapest motels if you had a layover. And what to do during your layover period.
I rarely had a layover where I wasn't near a relative somewhere, or a business owner we knew, hi hi
More often than not, If I just had to have a sleep break, I would sleep in the sleeper in the cab.
Other drivers would guide me to free parking areas for truckers. Many had a place to shower also for anywhere from a quarter to a buck. And they knew which ones were clean and well maintained.
Although I've been to Chicago many times. I don't remember much about the streets there anymore.
But in St. Louis, the major roads going from St. Louis out to the county are like a wagon wheel spoke.
If you get lost, just drive north or south until you hit a road you know, like Olive, or Page, or any of the others to get your bearings back.
Down here in TN, roads go from nothing to nowhere and many go in circles, hi hi.
Lot's of switchbacks here due to it being mountainous. Heck we have the famous Tail of the Dragon, hi hi.
Before I got my GPS I got lost several times and ended up 30 miles away from home, thinking I was heading toward home. The problem was, the roads go in circles so you never know which direction is which.
Can't even trust the road signs either. Here it is possible to be going west on one road, while going east on the same road. EG: The sign says East on 33, West on 61; or North on 441 and south on 365, while your compass in the car shows you are going West, hi hi.
You can't really go by the traditional house numbering method either. Even numbers are South and East, works most of the time, but not so much down here. My house which is now 934, at one time used to be 1001.
I did learn a trick when I was driving OTR though. If you see metal tags, an address, on a utility pole, trust it, they are always right! This don't mean they align with the addresses on the streets themselves though. But they are perfect with the established postal grid system.
Seems like I'm in a rambling mood today and I have lots to get done.
I think they call that Procrastination, hi hi.
You know what companies have the best deals, highest quality, at the lowest price.
You learn what areas or not really safe to go into at 3am in the morning, and which areas you would be safe all night long.
Because you all went to school and played together, you knew where most of the kids lived, so later knew their parents homes on site. And with your best friends, you know where they moved after they got married, and sometimes stay in touch.
And most of the time, you knew all the neighbors up and down your street and perhaps the neighbors behind you.
But as you said, when we get older, and get ripped away from everyone and everything we knew.
Being parked in a new city where everything is unfamiliar, and in my case, nothing is logical down here.
You are really lost, and it seems we never recover our loss of where to go and what to do.
Now we rely on our GPS to get us someplace we need to visit, and get us back home again.
We might check out several different places at different times, to see which one really has the best deals, and build up our new repertoire of our area. But it is minuscule in comparison to all we knew about our home area.
Ironically, when I was driving OTR, I had much less trouble in new towns I delivered to than I do here.
First off, we had our CB radios and conversed with other drivers, some who were locals.
They always knew the best places to eat where you could park your rig to eat that is.
The cleanest and cheapest motels if you had a layover. And what to do during your layover period.
I rarely had a layover where I wasn't near a relative somewhere, or a business owner we knew, hi hi
More often than not, If I just had to have a sleep break, I would sleep in the sleeper in the cab.
Other drivers would guide me to free parking areas for truckers. Many had a place to shower also for anywhere from a quarter to a buck. And they knew which ones were clean and well maintained.
Although I've been to Chicago many times. I don't remember much about the streets there anymore.
But in St. Louis, the major roads going from St. Louis out to the county are like a wagon wheel spoke.
If you get lost, just drive north or south until you hit a road you know, like Olive, or Page, or any of the others to get your bearings back.
Down here in TN, roads go from nothing to nowhere and many go in circles, hi hi.
Lot's of switchbacks here due to it being mountainous. Heck we have the famous Tail of the Dragon, hi hi.
Before I got my GPS I got lost several times and ended up 30 miles away from home, thinking I was heading toward home. The problem was, the roads go in circles so you never know which direction is which.
Can't even trust the road signs either. Here it is possible to be going west on one road, while going east on the same road. EG: The sign says East on 33, West on 61; or North on 441 and south on 365, while your compass in the car shows you are going West, hi hi.
You can't really go by the traditional house numbering method either. Even numbers are South and East, works most of the time, but not so much down here. My house which is now 934, at one time used to be 1001.
I did learn a trick when I was driving OTR though. If you see metal tags, an address, on a utility pole, trust it, they are always right! This don't mean they align with the addresses on the streets themselves though. But they are perfect with the established postal grid system.
Seems like I'm in a rambling mood today and I have lots to get done.
I think they call that Procrastination, hi hi.
Re: Avatar Issues
Chicago proper has a logical street pattern for the most part. Since their eastern border is Lake Michigan all the roads lead out of the city. LOL Most, if not all, the neighborhoods are the standard checker board squares with all streets perpendicular to each other. The major thoroughfares that will take you out of the city tend to be diagonal. Since there is nothing but flat land for hundreds of miles surrounding the Windy City, every main road travels in a straight line. There are exceptions, of course, much like the ones you describe. Several roads may merge into one for some distance and you will see those signs saying this road goes north and south and east all at the same time. The intent is not to provide bearings for your location. Those directions simply identify the road and which side of it you are traveling on. It is very possible to be on I-94 North and be heading west, for example.
All of that required learning about your neighborhood is a given when you are transplanted. May the gods of travel be blessed for inventing GPS. The more subtle learning curve has to do with the culture of the area. There is no GPS for navigating what people believe and how they behave. That kind of thing can only be learned by experience. I figured I was moving into a southern state when I decided to come to MIssouri, but it turns out they all call themselves midwestern. That's technically correct , but the folks down here are not like the folks up north who are also midwestern. It's more interesting than it is a problem. As I stated elsewhere I get along with the folks here very well. I ignore them all.
All of that required learning about your neighborhood is a given when you are transplanted. May the gods of travel be blessed for inventing GPS. The more subtle learning curve has to do with the culture of the area. There is no GPS for navigating what people believe and how they behave. That kind of thing can only be learned by experience. I figured I was moving into a southern state when I decided to come to MIssouri, but it turns out they all call themselves midwestern. That's technically correct , but the folks down here are not like the folks up north who are also midwestern. It's more interesting than it is a problem. As I stated elsewhere I get along with the folks here very well. I ignore them all.
Re: Avatar Issues
Well, the folks down here are all SOUTHERN, hi hi.
Even the Transplants from up north!
It is a totally different lifestyle than I'm used to, that's for sure.
AND they speak a different language with very few words in it compared to elsewhere.
Back home we had two-wheeled hand trucks, wagons, shopping carts, flat top shopping dolly's, baby strollers, sedans, hardtops, convertibles, pick-em-up-trucks, etc.
Down here they only have one word for anything with wheels on it. It's a BUGGY!
And when you go to a restaurant they don't ask what you want to drink, they ask if you want a Coke.
"but you don't sell Coke, you only have Pepsi"
We have all flavors of Coke, Lemon/lime, Orange, Root Beer, Cola, etc.
What flavor of Coke do you want?
"I'll have a Pepsi"
Regular or Diet.
"Well since you don't have PepsiONE give me a sugared Pepsi"
OK, one Coke coming right up.
Then you can hear her say to another waitress, Bless His Heart!
Even the Transplants from up north!
It is a totally different lifestyle than I'm used to, that's for sure.
AND they speak a different language with very few words in it compared to elsewhere.
Back home we had two-wheeled hand trucks, wagons, shopping carts, flat top shopping dolly's, baby strollers, sedans, hardtops, convertibles, pick-em-up-trucks, etc.
Down here they only have one word for anything with wheels on it. It's a BUGGY!
And when you go to a restaurant they don't ask what you want to drink, they ask if you want a Coke.
"but you don't sell Coke, you only have Pepsi"
We have all flavors of Coke, Lemon/lime, Orange, Root Beer, Cola, etc.
What flavor of Coke do you want?
"I'll have a Pepsi"
Regular or Diet.
"Well since you don't have PepsiONE give me a sugared Pepsi"
OK, one Coke coming right up.
Then you can hear her say to another waitress, Bless His Heart!
Re: Avatar Issues
I think that is why Missouri is considered a purple state. Down south, near Tennessee, the mindset is deep south. Up here around St Louis they are more Yankee oriented.
Every so often I look for food that is unknown to my fellow Missourians; veal for example. How exotic is that? The stores are full of Black Angus beef but no veal. The butchers and meat cutters know what I'm talking about, but apparently I'm the only person in the entire state that would want to eat it. As far as different names for a common item goes, there is no such thing as a submarine sandwich down here. Most sandwich makers I've asked about them give me a blank stare. The local guy asked me to describe it and then told me that's a Poor Boy. Sure enough. Substitute the balogna with salami and it's a submarine sandwich. My wife is the soda drinker and she loves Diet Coke. Few, if any, restaurants sell that brand. You will end up with a diet Pepsi or nothing. I'm trying to think what they call soda down here; I'm leaning toward ... soda. LOL
Every so often I look for food that is unknown to my fellow Missourians; veal for example. How exotic is that? The stores are full of Black Angus beef but no veal. The butchers and meat cutters know what I'm talking about, but apparently I'm the only person in the entire state that would want to eat it. As far as different names for a common item goes, there is no such thing as a submarine sandwich down here. Most sandwich makers I've asked about them give me a blank stare. The local guy asked me to describe it and then told me that's a Poor Boy. Sure enough. Substitute the balogna with salami and it's a submarine sandwich. My wife is the soda drinker and she loves Diet Coke. Few, if any, restaurants sell that brand. You will end up with a diet Pepsi or nothing. I'm trying to think what they call soda down here; I'm leaning toward ... soda. LOL
Re: Avatar Issues
Missouri is Yankee, but they are also Southern Sympathizers too.
Kids from one family could belong to either the Union or Rebel armies.
Interesting you brought up a Submarine Sandwich.
Yes, most central Missourians call it a Poor Boy, but go north a ways and they call it a Submarine Sandwich, go southeast and they call it a Hogie or Hogey, head further west near Kansas City and it's called Hero Sandwich.
I drank Pepsi my whole life, and after I became a diabetic switched to PepsiONE.
When they discontinued it, I switched to Diet RC, because I liked it better than Coke Products which all taste like medicine to me. I was told Diet RC was discontinued, but found it was just no longer made by the local bottling company. So I switched to Diet Coke w/Splenda, aka Yellow Cap Diet Coke, even though they never made it in bottles, hi hi.
The reason I liked Diet RC the best was because not only did it not contain Aspartame, but it did not contain Ace-K either.
I never heard soda called anything but soda, or soda pop until I drove OTR.
In the south, no matter what it is it is called Coke, hi hi.
Up in the northern states it is called Pop. But it seems nearly every place else calls it Soda.
Kids from one family could belong to either the Union or Rebel armies.
Interesting you brought up a Submarine Sandwich.
Yes, most central Missourians call it a Poor Boy, but go north a ways and they call it a Submarine Sandwich, go southeast and they call it a Hogie or Hogey, head further west near Kansas City and it's called Hero Sandwich.
I drank Pepsi my whole life, and after I became a diabetic switched to PepsiONE.
When they discontinued it, I switched to Diet RC, because I liked it better than Coke Products which all taste like medicine to me. I was told Diet RC was discontinued, but found it was just no longer made by the local bottling company. So I switched to Diet Coke w/Splenda, aka Yellow Cap Diet Coke, even though they never made it in bottles, hi hi.
The reason I liked Diet RC the best was because not only did it not contain Aspartame, but it did not contain Ace-K either.
I never heard soda called anything but soda, or soda pop until I drove OTR.
In the south, no matter what it is it is called Coke, hi hi.
Up in the northern states it is called Pop. But it seems nearly every place else calls it Soda.