Well I do agree with you in part about the comments drifting a tab to the right when threads get long.
My e-mail does the same thing if someone does not delete the previous e-mail before the one they are responding to.
I have one lady I talk to daily and even though I delete the previous message before I send a reply, somehow she ends up pulling them back in again. Not always though. I always thought this was because she used webmail instead of e-mail.
She said it's not that, it is because each old reply is indented and we just carry on.
I change the subject line to the Month and Week which makes anything older than that drop off when she replies, hi hi.
I think just removing the RE: will also do the same thing when I reply.
TinyPics Demise
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Post a new topic to begin a chat.
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Post a new topic to begin a chat.
Any topic is acceptable, and topic drift is permissible.
Re: TinyPics Demise
The method I have used to get around the drift is to simply copy anything pertinent from the original and paste it into a brand spanking new e-mail along with my reply. It's the e-mail software that's causing the drift so I just force it to treat my messages as new every time. I realize this could be a problem if you need to refer back to something written a few replies previous. Well, the drift is a problem to me so deal with it. LOL
Re: TinyPics Demise
I just had to look back to May of 2017 to get a copy of an e-mail from one of my vendors to send back to them.
The crazy thing is, I had a paper printout of the Credit Memo which I printed from the link back to them.
I forgot to use it the time before last when I ordered bottles and caps and paid the bill in full.
When I got the bill for the newest order of bottles, I deducted the amount of the Credit Memo and sent them a check for the difference, and ALSO included a copy of the Credit Memo so they had all the reference numbers shown on it.
Received an e-mail from them Friday afternoon which I didn't read until Saturday after lunch. I only read my e-mails once per day, usually after lunch. They wanted to know the exact date they e-mailed it to me, plus a copy of the e-mail Header.
Files over a year old are condensed and archived. I don't know what they do to condense them, but when I went into the archives, they way it archives them, made it super easy to run through all the e-mails until I found it.
It had all the data they wanted. But I just copied the entirety of that old e-mail to a new e-mail and sent it to them.
They were not denying the Credit Memo, they just couldn't find where they ever sent one to me, hi hi.
Makes one wonder what type of accounting program they are using?
The crazy thing is, I had a paper printout of the Credit Memo which I printed from the link back to them.
I forgot to use it the time before last when I ordered bottles and caps and paid the bill in full.
When I got the bill for the newest order of bottles, I deducted the amount of the Credit Memo and sent them a check for the difference, and ALSO included a copy of the Credit Memo so they had all the reference numbers shown on it.
Received an e-mail from them Friday afternoon which I didn't read until Saturday after lunch. I only read my e-mails once per day, usually after lunch. They wanted to know the exact date they e-mailed it to me, plus a copy of the e-mail Header.
Files over a year old are condensed and archived. I don't know what they do to condense them, but when I went into the archives, they way it archives them, made it super easy to run through all the e-mails until I found it.
It had all the data they wanted. But I just copied the entirety of that old e-mail to a new e-mail and sent it to them.
They were not denying the Credit Memo, they just couldn't find where they ever sent one to me, hi hi.
Makes one wonder what type of accounting program they are using?
Re: TinyPics Demise
I do wonder at times how certain businesses stay viable.
When I worked at Motorola there was a time I ordered test equipment valued at more than $20K. I don't recall the exact amount. It was a rush order and the company was anxious to get Motorola as a customer. I received the equipment, looked in the box to make sure it was ok, but then put all the stuffing back in and stored it on a shelf for future implementation. We were in the process of moving at the time and as you would expect a lot of chaos ensued. The night guys looked into the box and saw the stuffing but not the test equipment. So ... they tossed it into the trash gondola. I didn't notice it missing until a couple days later when I got another box full of equipment from the vendor. The paperwork looked like it was an original shipment and there was no explanation why we got a second unordered box of test equipment. I was going to store it with the first shipment, but that was gone.
I explained what happened to my manager. He wasn't sure what to do but said we should wait to see how we were billed. It turned out that we were only billed for one shipment and never did figure out why they shipped it twice. That's $20,000 of inventory that the company could not account for. How often can you do that and still stay in business?
When I worked at Motorola there was a time I ordered test equipment valued at more than $20K. I don't recall the exact amount. It was a rush order and the company was anxious to get Motorola as a customer. I received the equipment, looked in the box to make sure it was ok, but then put all the stuffing back in and stored it on a shelf for future implementation. We were in the process of moving at the time and as you would expect a lot of chaos ensued. The night guys looked into the box and saw the stuffing but not the test equipment. So ... they tossed it into the trash gondola. I didn't notice it missing until a couple days later when I got another box full of equipment from the vendor. The paperwork looked like it was an original shipment and there was no explanation why we got a second unordered box of test equipment. I was going to store it with the first shipment, but that was gone.
I explained what happened to my manager. He wasn't sure what to do but said we should wait to see how we were billed. It turned out that we were only billed for one shipment and never did figure out why they shipped it twice. That's $20,000 of inventory that the company could not account for. How often can you do that and still stay in business?
Re: TinyPics Demise
Back in our flower shop days, we placed a huge order direct with Anchor Hocking for their line of presscut vases.
They came in as expected, and we placed them in the warehouse for distribution to our cut flower shop a case at a time of each.
Two months later another shipment arrived, it had all the same numbers on it as the first shipment, a duplicate order.
Dad called them and told them we already received the shipment and what we should do with the second shipment.
They told him there was no mistake, we shipped part of the product line in the first shipment, and the rest of the product line after we had it all made.
Dad had me check the warehouse to be doubly sure.
Yes, they sent us our exact order, in-full the first time, and in-full the second time.
Nothing was missing, only now we had twice as much of each item.
Dad called them back again, and after a long run-around, and they insisted we got what we ordered, he hung up.
We were never billed for the first order, based on the dates of shipments.
The statement actually showed the product numbers shipped on the first shipment, and the product numbers shipped on the second shipment. We had all of them now, TWICE, which was a boon for us, as they refused to make a correction.
Oh, we ordered a repair part for one of our soil processing machines. The company shipped it the same day we ordered.
A day later they called and said it was on back-order and would be shipped in two days. Soon we received the second one.
Since it is a part that commonly broke, we didn't let them know, figured they would bill us for both.
A few weeks later, they shipped us two more in the same box. My uncle was afraid they would now bill us for four of them, so gave them a call. The person he talked to said when they went to ship my order, the one they thought was on the shelf was not there, thus the reason for the back-order. We could not have shipped you another one a couple of weeks later because our order did not come in until over a week after that. Then he said, do you know you shipped us two after your back order came in, there were two in the box. Again they said impossible, they are only packed one per carton. When the bill finally came, it was for only one part. Unc just said lump it we'll keep 'em.
They came in as expected, and we placed them in the warehouse for distribution to our cut flower shop a case at a time of each.
Two months later another shipment arrived, it had all the same numbers on it as the first shipment, a duplicate order.
Dad called them and told them we already received the shipment and what we should do with the second shipment.
They told him there was no mistake, we shipped part of the product line in the first shipment, and the rest of the product line after we had it all made.
Dad had me check the warehouse to be doubly sure.
Yes, they sent us our exact order, in-full the first time, and in-full the second time.
Nothing was missing, only now we had twice as much of each item.
Dad called them back again, and after a long run-around, and they insisted we got what we ordered, he hung up.
We were never billed for the first order, based on the dates of shipments.
The statement actually showed the product numbers shipped on the first shipment, and the product numbers shipped on the second shipment. We had all of them now, TWICE, which was a boon for us, as they refused to make a correction.
Oh, we ordered a repair part for one of our soil processing machines. The company shipped it the same day we ordered.
A day later they called and said it was on back-order and would be shipped in two days. Soon we received the second one.
Since it is a part that commonly broke, we didn't let them know, figured they would bill us for both.
A few weeks later, they shipped us two more in the same box. My uncle was afraid they would now bill us for four of them, so gave them a call. The person he talked to said when they went to ship my order, the one they thought was on the shelf was not there, thus the reason for the back-order. We could not have shipped you another one a couple of weeks later because our order did not come in until over a week after that. Then he said, do you know you shipped us two after your back order came in, there were two in the box. Again they said impossible, they are only packed one per carton. When the bill finally came, it was for only one part. Unc just said lump it we'll keep 'em.
Re: TinyPics Demise
I guess when you are a large company losses are figured into the operating costs. It seems counter intuitive, but vendors expect such losses. I think I told you about the $600 Kohler medicine cabinet we received with a broken mirror. That mirror was a substantial part of the cost and I could see them not wanting me to return the pieces. But they didn't want any of it back and shipped a brand new one to replace the broken mirror. We were told it would be "too expensive" to return the old cabinet. I'm sure the unbroken part must have been $400 worth of the total costs, but it wasn't worth the effort to generate an RMA. Unbelievable.
Then, too, there were people in my old neighborhood who would buy houses to tear them down and rebuild something better on the property. Those tear-downs would sell for less than market value, but it's still a substantial purchase that has to be overcome in the sale of the next property. I don't see how developers could do such a thing, and perhaps they don't anymore. It's just mind boggling to think there is so much profit in new builds that they can overcome the cost of paying a huge premium on the development property.
Then, too, there were people in my old neighborhood who would buy houses to tear them down and rebuild something better on the property. Those tear-downs would sell for less than market value, but it's still a substantial purchase that has to be overcome in the sale of the next property. I don't see how developers could do such a thing, and perhaps they don't anymore. It's just mind boggling to think there is so much profit in new builds that they can overcome the cost of paying a huge premium on the development property.
Re: TinyPics Demise
I guess being raised in a family business, and belonging to businessmen's associations, I probably learned a whole lot more than I should have.
That Kohler medicine cabinet probably cost 85 to 125 dollars, and sold to the mfgr. rep. for 150, or to a Distributor for 200, who sold it to a wholesaler for 250 who sold it to the retailer for 300.
It is customary in the manufacturing business to send extra product free along with the first order, and about every 3rd or 4th order after that. These eventually get passed down to the wholesaler, after some loss, so they always have a free replacement for their retailer.
Each company along the line of distribution would have to handle a return at their own expense.
So it is cheaper in the long run for them to say, just dump it.
Normally, only a retailer gets an exact count of what he ordered.
A wholesaler normally gets 2 to 3% more than they ordered gratis, to cover breakage and returns.
A distributor may get 4 to 5% more product than he ordered for the same reason.
Not all manufacturers work this way, but do give allowances to the the chain of distribution for breakage and other problems with an item. In many cases, the retailer may have to take a photo of the damage and send it to the wholesaler to get a credit, but not ship a damaged item back.
In my case, for every 500th bottle of my product shipped, I included a case of bottles no charge, they just paid the shipping along with their normal order. This was to cover returns, samples they may give away or use themselves, and if they sold them, it was all profit with no product cost. This way a bad bottle does not have to flow backwards through the chain of distribution, which would be very costly to all concerned.
As far as houses go. I normally renovated an old house rather than build new. But not always.
A couple of times I took a house down to the foundation and started over.
One of them was a 2-story brick house, and I hired a company to dismantle the house, clean the bricks and sell them as used bricks. It cost me very little since they got good money for selling the bricks. Seems like my cost for that company only came to like 3 or 4 thousand dollars. I still had the clean-up and debris hauling, and labor for that. But overall, my cost on the brick house was only like 8 thousand before I could start installing the sanitary plumbing and new basement floor.
Now on another house, to have it razed and carted off usually costs anywhere from 20 to 35 grand, too much for my blood, hi hi. I would hire a couple of roofing guys to remove the shingles and roofing lumber first. After the roof was off, I hired a group of guys from the Salvation Army to come out and take out the rafters and place them on a pair of pallets. then they could gut the inside, pull off the outside, putting all of that into the big dumpsters, then take out the framing lumber and put it on pallets.
Old lumber is fairly useless for trying to rebuild with, but it still fetches a fairly high price as old seasoned lumber. More often than not, the price the lumber fetched was about half of what I paid for labor, so it wasn't a bad expense at all.
Now on this second house, I did not have them remove the floors or floor joists as they were sound.
This second house was a story and a half before we tore it down, and I only rebuilt it as a single story house.
Regardless of what the FMV for a house was, I only marked it up to double of what I had into it.
If I bought a house for 6 grand, spent 10 to tear it down, and another 15 to 20 to rebuild, it would sell for around 60 to 70 thousand, even if the FMV was 85 to 100k. I would often have a buyer put sweat equity into the final finished of the house as a down payment to appease the banks. A loan for 60k would go through easily for an 80k house if I showed they put down 20k. Due to some regulations, I often had to do this in two steps, with them earning 10k over three months, and/or 3,500 per month as a taxable salary they could deposit. When they hit 20k they had the deposit the bank required for a B-Paper loan. I didn't get rich that way, but it made it easier to sell a house than trying to get full retail for it. I usually had them sold long before they were done too, and had a free or sorta free worker to help, hi hi.
That Kohler medicine cabinet probably cost 85 to 125 dollars, and sold to the mfgr. rep. for 150, or to a Distributor for 200, who sold it to a wholesaler for 250 who sold it to the retailer for 300.
It is customary in the manufacturing business to send extra product free along with the first order, and about every 3rd or 4th order after that. These eventually get passed down to the wholesaler, after some loss, so they always have a free replacement for their retailer.
Each company along the line of distribution would have to handle a return at their own expense.
So it is cheaper in the long run for them to say, just dump it.
Normally, only a retailer gets an exact count of what he ordered.
A wholesaler normally gets 2 to 3% more than they ordered gratis, to cover breakage and returns.
A distributor may get 4 to 5% more product than he ordered for the same reason.
Not all manufacturers work this way, but do give allowances to the the chain of distribution for breakage and other problems with an item. In many cases, the retailer may have to take a photo of the damage and send it to the wholesaler to get a credit, but not ship a damaged item back.
In my case, for every 500th bottle of my product shipped, I included a case of bottles no charge, they just paid the shipping along with their normal order. This was to cover returns, samples they may give away or use themselves, and if they sold them, it was all profit with no product cost. This way a bad bottle does not have to flow backwards through the chain of distribution, which would be very costly to all concerned.
As far as houses go. I normally renovated an old house rather than build new. But not always.
A couple of times I took a house down to the foundation and started over.
One of them was a 2-story brick house, and I hired a company to dismantle the house, clean the bricks and sell them as used bricks. It cost me very little since they got good money for selling the bricks. Seems like my cost for that company only came to like 3 or 4 thousand dollars. I still had the clean-up and debris hauling, and labor for that. But overall, my cost on the brick house was only like 8 thousand before I could start installing the sanitary plumbing and new basement floor.
Now on another house, to have it razed and carted off usually costs anywhere from 20 to 35 grand, too much for my blood, hi hi. I would hire a couple of roofing guys to remove the shingles and roofing lumber first. After the roof was off, I hired a group of guys from the Salvation Army to come out and take out the rafters and place them on a pair of pallets. then they could gut the inside, pull off the outside, putting all of that into the big dumpsters, then take out the framing lumber and put it on pallets.
Old lumber is fairly useless for trying to rebuild with, but it still fetches a fairly high price as old seasoned lumber. More often than not, the price the lumber fetched was about half of what I paid for labor, so it wasn't a bad expense at all.
Now on this second house, I did not have them remove the floors or floor joists as they were sound.
This second house was a story and a half before we tore it down, and I only rebuilt it as a single story house.
Regardless of what the FMV for a house was, I only marked it up to double of what I had into it.
If I bought a house for 6 grand, spent 10 to tear it down, and another 15 to 20 to rebuild, it would sell for around 60 to 70 thousand, even if the FMV was 85 to 100k. I would often have a buyer put sweat equity into the final finished of the house as a down payment to appease the banks. A loan for 60k would go through easily for an 80k house if I showed they put down 20k. Due to some regulations, I often had to do this in two steps, with them earning 10k over three months, and/or 3,500 per month as a taxable salary they could deposit. When they hit 20k they had the deposit the bank required for a B-Paper loan. I didn't get rich that way, but it made it easier to sell a house than trying to get full retail for it. I usually had them sold long before they were done too, and had a free or sorta free worker to help, hi hi.
Re: TinyPics Demise
Truth be told I don't think it was a retailer who sold us the medicine cabinet. I found it on line and the company had dozens of every style imaginable. He was either a wholesaler or a distributor charging retail prices. LOL It's just amazing to me how much things cost verses what they sell for. The normal losses associated with running a business are surprising, but, I suppose, trivial compared to the overall business.
Our first house was custom built and my wife did a lot of the research it took to build it. Why not? It was her house after all. LOL It got to be very complex even though we hired a general contractor to do the actual building. I suppose it gets easier as you do more of them, but we more or less decided to buy something already made going forward. At the time is was a good decision. Now that I'm in a house somebody else designed, after living in my own creation thirty years, I'm almost willing to try building one of my own again. My wife would have to go on vacation for six months if I did that, however.
Our first house was custom built and my wife did a lot of the research it took to build it. Why not? It was her house after all. LOL It got to be very complex even though we hired a general contractor to do the actual building. I suppose it gets easier as you do more of them, but we more or less decided to buy something already made going forward. At the time is was a good decision. Now that I'm in a house somebody else designed, after living in my own creation thirty years, I'm almost willing to try building one of my own again. My wife would have to go on vacation for six months if I did that, however.
Re: TinyPics Demise
I have an exclusive with my mfgr. rep. I would not sell to anyone but him. He used to only mark up the price of each bottle by 50 cents, when he sold to four different distributors. After he lost a couple of distributors, he finally gave an exclusive to a single international distributor, which was a feather in his cap for sure. He also raised his price by a buck, so was now making a buck a bottle himself. This distributor does sell to numerous wholesalers around the globe, but he also sells directly and normally for a buck lower to consumers so as not to anger other retailers. There are a few retailers who sell for less than he does, but those particular retailers do not have a brick n mortar store to maintain.
Our only Distributor adds like 1.75 to the sale to wholesalers, and 3.50 to 4 bucks if he sells to retailers, since he is cutting out the wholesaler and don't want to lose wholesalers because of direct sales to retailers.
All of them make more per bottle than I do, hi hi.
Our only Distributor adds like 1.75 to the sale to wholesalers, and 3.50 to 4 bucks if he sells to retailers, since he is cutting out the wholesaler and don't want to lose wholesalers because of direct sales to retailers.
All of them make more per bottle than I do, hi hi.
Re: TinyPics Demise
I'm an advocate of the KISS principle and have often wondered why you can't just buy retail direct from the manufacturer. Actually, it's not that hard to imagine why not, but these days with virtual stores all over the Internet it would seem like a piece of cake. When I worked at Motorola in their cell phone division, it was impossible to buy a phone from the company. I could steal one easier than it would have been to buy one. The only excuse I was able to extract was that there was no way to account for money taken in from employees. Well, if the company accountant can't figure that out, they need new accountants. Bottom line is I never owned a Motorola cell phone. 
Re: TinyPics Demise
When I first started selling my lines of aquarium products, I did sell at retail direct to consumers. Had to in order to get the product out there.
I already knew how chain of distribution pricing worked, so made sure my retail price was what a retailer would have to charge for the product. Sure I made a lot more, but the hassles of selling eaches in phenomenal.
It might have been dumb luck, but I had a combo retail/wholesaler ask me for my distributor pricing and quantity.
He supplied most of the information I needed along with the request. He sold retail only on-line, but as a wholesaler, he was supplying over 15 pet stores who carried reef products, and another 25 that were only freshwater.
He also asked for suggested wholesale pricing. I did a little calculating based on the number of retail stores he was handling that carried reef, I set his minimum order at 288 bottles, which was six cases of 48 per case, but told him my normal minimum order should be twenty-four cases to get distributor pricing.
I didn't want to take a chance of losing this guy, which is why I gave him a six case deal to get a lower pricing, but it wasn't quite as low as distributor pricing. It was basically what a distributor would sell to a wholesaler for.
His father was an oral surgeon and wanted his son to become a dentist. Since his dad was footing most of the bills, he had to appease his dad and go to a dental collage.
It was during this first year that we struck up several different deals, which actually allowed me to raise my price higher.
This combined with an editorial published in a reef magazine and I was up and running with fairly high sales. One of the deals was I would drop-ship to his retailers if they would take a full-case, as I could not ship a partial case.
He finally got set up near the college with a room in which he could get back to handling and shipping the orders himself. He also picked up several overseas accounts. This is when I hit my first problem. The water is different in Asian countries, and caused a problem with my product. I was fortunate that we figured out what the problem was and corrected it almost right away. So, for a long time I had one formula for overseas and one formula for stateside. I also paid a lab to study my two formulas to see if they could be done as a single formula. We were successful in that endeavor also, but again it would cause the price per bottle to go up another 25 cents. To offset this, and because overseas orders required a different label, even though it was the same product. He agreed to take over labeling the bottles. Ended up with something like four or five languages other than English. This helped boost sales also.
After he graduated his first year, his dad wanted to send him to another college somewhere, and his dad won the argument. But instead of leaving me and his clients high and dry, he sold his client list to an international distributor, along with an agreed upon with me, exclusive on my mainline product.
I've been with this distributor ever since, but I did not sell directly to them for the first ten years. I had a mfgr. rep. of their appointment come aboard. He had the ability to place large orders, and warehouse them for shipping to distributors, of which he had about four or five. This did not create a conflict because the exclusive was only for my mainline product and this guy wanted to sell the other products I offered at the time as well.
I came up with yet another minor change to my mainline product for his overseas market and although it had numerous other ingredients in it, and it was a different color as well, technically it was not the same product, although it did the same thing. He sold my products under different names too.
He eventually turned his clients for my products over to my exclusive distributor, who could then sell my improved mainline product overseas, but he still got the credit for the sale. Worked out great for both of us. After a few years I called my product the 4th generation, which only meant all the improvements to the other products were rolled into one, except for some super expensive ingredients it didn't really need.
About three years ago, I began installing all the labels again, which the distributor had printed and sent me the labels. I charged him a labor charge to do this of course. And that is how it has been going ever since.
Almost forgot to answer your question. Manufacturers are not set up to sell at retail, or at wholesale either as far as that goes. Besides having different size boxes, and a different way of shipping, you have accounting and tax laws that are different too. Even when I was selling my product at retail, I never once sold within my own state due to tax rules.
I did have a way around that though. I would have them place the order with a couple of retailers, who would then let me know they sold a bottle or two in my state, and I would drop ship for them for free. This was in the early days.
Selling retail opens up a whole big can of worms. Everything from collecting sales taxes, paying use taxes, getting the sales taxes to the bank on time, and reporting income differently than one does as a manufacturer. In other words, a big headache, hi hi.
I already knew how chain of distribution pricing worked, so made sure my retail price was what a retailer would have to charge for the product. Sure I made a lot more, but the hassles of selling eaches in phenomenal.
It might have been dumb luck, but I had a combo retail/wholesaler ask me for my distributor pricing and quantity.
He supplied most of the information I needed along with the request. He sold retail only on-line, but as a wholesaler, he was supplying over 15 pet stores who carried reef products, and another 25 that were only freshwater.
He also asked for suggested wholesale pricing. I did a little calculating based on the number of retail stores he was handling that carried reef, I set his minimum order at 288 bottles, which was six cases of 48 per case, but told him my normal minimum order should be twenty-four cases to get distributor pricing.
I didn't want to take a chance of losing this guy, which is why I gave him a six case deal to get a lower pricing, but it wasn't quite as low as distributor pricing. It was basically what a distributor would sell to a wholesaler for.
His father was an oral surgeon and wanted his son to become a dentist. Since his dad was footing most of the bills, he had to appease his dad and go to a dental collage.
It was during this first year that we struck up several different deals, which actually allowed me to raise my price higher.
This combined with an editorial published in a reef magazine and I was up and running with fairly high sales. One of the deals was I would drop-ship to his retailers if they would take a full-case, as I could not ship a partial case.
He finally got set up near the college with a room in which he could get back to handling and shipping the orders himself. He also picked up several overseas accounts. This is when I hit my first problem. The water is different in Asian countries, and caused a problem with my product. I was fortunate that we figured out what the problem was and corrected it almost right away. So, for a long time I had one formula for overseas and one formula for stateside. I also paid a lab to study my two formulas to see if they could be done as a single formula. We were successful in that endeavor also, but again it would cause the price per bottle to go up another 25 cents. To offset this, and because overseas orders required a different label, even though it was the same product. He agreed to take over labeling the bottles. Ended up with something like four or five languages other than English. This helped boost sales also.
After he graduated his first year, his dad wanted to send him to another college somewhere, and his dad won the argument. But instead of leaving me and his clients high and dry, he sold his client list to an international distributor, along with an agreed upon with me, exclusive on my mainline product.
I've been with this distributor ever since, but I did not sell directly to them for the first ten years. I had a mfgr. rep. of their appointment come aboard. He had the ability to place large orders, and warehouse them for shipping to distributors, of which he had about four or five. This did not create a conflict because the exclusive was only for my mainline product and this guy wanted to sell the other products I offered at the time as well.
I came up with yet another minor change to my mainline product for his overseas market and although it had numerous other ingredients in it, and it was a different color as well, technically it was not the same product, although it did the same thing. He sold my products under different names too.
He eventually turned his clients for my products over to my exclusive distributor, who could then sell my improved mainline product overseas, but he still got the credit for the sale. Worked out great for both of us. After a few years I called my product the 4th generation, which only meant all the improvements to the other products were rolled into one, except for some super expensive ingredients it didn't really need.
About three years ago, I began installing all the labels again, which the distributor had printed and sent me the labels. I charged him a labor charge to do this of course. And that is how it has been going ever since.
Almost forgot to answer your question. Manufacturers are not set up to sell at retail, or at wholesale either as far as that goes. Besides having different size boxes, and a different way of shipping, you have accounting and tax laws that are different too. Even when I was selling my product at retail, I never once sold within my own state due to tax rules.
I did have a way around that though. I would have them place the order with a couple of retailers, who would then let me know they sold a bottle or two in my state, and I would drop ship for them for free. This was in the early days.
Selling retail opens up a whole big can of worms. Everything from collecting sales taxes, paying use taxes, getting the sales taxes to the bank on time, and reporting income differently than one does as a manufacturer. In other words, a big headache, hi hi.
Re: TinyPics Demise
No doubt that luck plays a part in success. I don't think there really is such a thing because events occur as a result of the decisions people make. The people you knew and worked with didn't just happen to be in the right place at the right time. You cultivated the environment to attract opportunities and other like minded people were drawn into that environment. Some of the interactions were unremarkable while others may have changed the way you do business. Again, it's all a matter of choices you made based on your own skills and experience. In other words, I don't see you as dumb or lucky. You are well organized in your thinking and know what you are doing. You paved the road to success. Then, again, there is that pothole or two. LOL
Re: TinyPics Demise
Yeppers, those dang potholes, hi hi.
I'm not really all that smart, but have learned how to spot an opportunity others easily overlook.
In today's Internet age, it is easy to find what item is missing in a hobby, task, or job.
The key is trying to figure out how to make that item cheaply and easily enough it will be profitable.
Although one should think big, they should also be able to think about the steps leading to the top.
Sometimes, like in the types of products I made, there is a limit to the location of the top rung for that product.
But there are many more opportunities to develop products out there and add to your line-up.
Kids today want to start at the top, and are not really willing or able to do the work necessary to get there, much less stay there. Some do have brilliant ideas, but not the wherewithal to set the wheels in motion, because they look at it the wrong way. Apple didn't start with a multi-million dollar factory churning out computers. No, they started in his dad's garage I think, hand assembling a motherboard until they got it the way they wanted. And only after that were they able to have a few made by existing production companies. And as we all know, the grew in leaps and bounds after that. Right product in the right era to make a go of it.
Personally, I think I was too smart for my own britches. Coming up with business I started that were too far ahead of their time, and had to many brick walls to fight through at the time. One example: My windshield repair company.
Some of my businesses did well until advancements in technology, moving into the computer age, wiped them out.
We had a boy my dads age in our town who started a Typewriter cleaning and repair business. He started in what was a meat cooler behind a restaurant that was no longer used because the cooling system burned out, which was because tubing inside the unit corroded from age and leaked. In any case, he installed a couple of windows, and built work stations inside the thing. It was secure enough he didn't have to worry about anyone breaking in.
That was his start. Then he rented a little add-on aluminum frame glass building which was installed at the end of a shopping center for a lock and key guy. It was about three times bigger than the cooler, but he outgrew it within a year, and rented the shopping center store right next to it. Not overly huge, but that was where he stayed for the rest of his life. Besides repairs, he was now a typewriter dealer for several brands. Which went from manual to electric, to computerized. I still have my Swintec I bought from him that you can hook a computer to to make it print using the daisy wheels.
He was in his upper 40's around the time computers started getting popular, and a big computer store opened in town. I bought a few very expensive items from that computer store, including an Integral Data Systems 9-pin dot matrix printer for 1,600 bucks. This store did not last long, so old Jones Typewriter added computers to his line-up.
My point here is, rather than let his business die, he kept moving up with the times, and didn't limit himself to one brand of anything.
By the time he reached retirement age, he still had the typewriter repair business, but had little work for it, even so, he kept it open in that little lean-to type building, and had a fellow who worked in there, mainly refurbishing old typewriters for resale, and of course used electric typewriters. But when the old man decided to retire, he got the whole place, including the computer store. But after about five years he got greedy. He went from underselling his competition, to pricing his equipment higher and only selling equipment with an annual service contract. In one way this was good, because it got him a lot of commercial accounts, some fairly big offices too. But then other much larger companies came in with deals the big places could not pass up. And such companies had all kinds of equipment he didn't. Such as POS equipment. Nevertheless, he made enough money over the years, he was able to retire at around age 58. Even so, it was sad to see a company that was there since the 1940s come to a close.
Heck, they said the same thing about our business, started in the 1800s, but became incorporated in 1913, and we closed in 1984. 71 years after incorporation, and over 125 years since they first started the produce market.
I'm not really all that smart, but have learned how to spot an opportunity others easily overlook.
In today's Internet age, it is easy to find what item is missing in a hobby, task, or job.
The key is trying to figure out how to make that item cheaply and easily enough it will be profitable.
Although one should think big, they should also be able to think about the steps leading to the top.
Sometimes, like in the types of products I made, there is a limit to the location of the top rung for that product.
But there are many more opportunities to develop products out there and add to your line-up.
Kids today want to start at the top, and are not really willing or able to do the work necessary to get there, much less stay there. Some do have brilliant ideas, but not the wherewithal to set the wheels in motion, because they look at it the wrong way. Apple didn't start with a multi-million dollar factory churning out computers. No, they started in his dad's garage I think, hand assembling a motherboard until they got it the way they wanted. And only after that were they able to have a few made by existing production companies. And as we all know, the grew in leaps and bounds after that. Right product in the right era to make a go of it.
Personally, I think I was too smart for my own britches. Coming up with business I started that were too far ahead of their time, and had to many brick walls to fight through at the time. One example: My windshield repair company.
Some of my businesses did well until advancements in technology, moving into the computer age, wiped them out.
We had a boy my dads age in our town who started a Typewriter cleaning and repair business. He started in what was a meat cooler behind a restaurant that was no longer used because the cooling system burned out, which was because tubing inside the unit corroded from age and leaked. In any case, he installed a couple of windows, and built work stations inside the thing. It was secure enough he didn't have to worry about anyone breaking in.
That was his start. Then he rented a little add-on aluminum frame glass building which was installed at the end of a shopping center for a lock and key guy. It was about three times bigger than the cooler, but he outgrew it within a year, and rented the shopping center store right next to it. Not overly huge, but that was where he stayed for the rest of his life. Besides repairs, he was now a typewriter dealer for several brands. Which went from manual to electric, to computerized. I still have my Swintec I bought from him that you can hook a computer to to make it print using the daisy wheels.
He was in his upper 40's around the time computers started getting popular, and a big computer store opened in town. I bought a few very expensive items from that computer store, including an Integral Data Systems 9-pin dot matrix printer for 1,600 bucks. This store did not last long, so old Jones Typewriter added computers to his line-up.
My point here is, rather than let his business die, he kept moving up with the times, and didn't limit himself to one brand of anything.
By the time he reached retirement age, he still had the typewriter repair business, but had little work for it, even so, he kept it open in that little lean-to type building, and had a fellow who worked in there, mainly refurbishing old typewriters for resale, and of course used electric typewriters. But when the old man decided to retire, he got the whole place, including the computer store. But after about five years he got greedy. He went from underselling his competition, to pricing his equipment higher and only selling equipment with an annual service contract. In one way this was good, because it got him a lot of commercial accounts, some fairly big offices too. But then other much larger companies came in with deals the big places could not pass up. And such companies had all kinds of equipment he didn't. Such as POS equipment. Nevertheless, he made enough money over the years, he was able to retire at around age 58. Even so, it was sad to see a company that was there since the 1940s come to a close.
Heck, they said the same thing about our business, started in the 1800s, but became incorporated in 1913, and we closed in 1984. 71 years after incorporation, and over 125 years since they first started the produce market.
Re: TinyPics Demise
The take away from your recollections is that it pays to be flexible and go with the flow. Every business on earth exists in a fluid and dynamic economy. Nothing stays the same for very long. Thus, if you want to succeed you need to be sensitive to what your customers are willing to buy, and that changes rather quickly. The ability to see opportunities isn't common to everyone. I am certain you had that skill and were capable of taking advantage of it. Judging by the number of different ventures you were involved with, it's obvious that you were special. Not Steve Jobs special, but still.
I recall one incident when I was a child. My uncles would take me fishing and the boat launches were usually part of a tavern or a lodge. One of the lodge owners approached my uncle about buying the place. He said he would have to talk it over with my dad because he didn't have enough money on his own. Dad wasn't interested and we didn't move to Wisconsin to run a bed and breakfast. I guess I was really disappointed back then which might explain why I still remember the incident. It would have been a whole life change for all of us. Maybe that is what scared dad. He didn't want to change his life.
I recall one incident when I was a child. My uncles would take me fishing and the boat launches were usually part of a tavern or a lodge. One of the lodge owners approached my uncle about buying the place. He said he would have to talk it over with my dad because he didn't have enough money on his own. Dad wasn't interested and we didn't move to Wisconsin to run a bed and breakfast. I guess I was really disappointed back then which might explain why I still remember the incident. It would have been a whole life change for all of us. Maybe that is what scared dad. He didn't want to change his life.
Re: TinyPics Demise
I know I was an oddball. I was asked many times why I go through all the work of starting a business, making it profitable, only to turn around and sell it to start yet another one.
Two reasons actually. The first reason is once I achieved my goal, I got tired of the business. And the second reason is, they type of business could not reach my ultimate goal, because they all used MY TIME in lieu of other peoples time. In other words, running the business kept me from pursuing other businesses, they were to time consuming.
Also, in some cases, due to my weird medical condition, I may not know how I did something to make it do what it does.
I'm in that same boat with the product I've kept going now for 25 years. I know nothing about chemistry anymore.
It's just at the time I was faced with a problem no one else could solve. After one attack, it came to me naturally. Even how to upgrade my product to handle the problems we faced when sales moved abroad. But then after my next attack, I had no idea why I had to use certain ingredients in a certain way to make it work when everyone else's failed.
I knew this was a possibility, so rewrote my complex formula in a way that even an 8 year old could duplicate my product knowing nothing about chemistry. It is a step by step method of what to buy and where, and in what order to blend which products, and how they all get blended together later, and how much time must elapse before the stop ingredient is added.
Heck, it's so simple even I understand how to make each unique ingredient, hi hi.
But if I look at the formula's I wrote, forget it, they no longer tell me anything.
Two reasons actually. The first reason is once I achieved my goal, I got tired of the business. And the second reason is, they type of business could not reach my ultimate goal, because they all used MY TIME in lieu of other peoples time. In other words, running the business kept me from pursuing other businesses, they were to time consuming.
Also, in some cases, due to my weird medical condition, I may not know how I did something to make it do what it does.
I'm in that same boat with the product I've kept going now for 25 years. I know nothing about chemistry anymore.
It's just at the time I was faced with a problem no one else could solve. After one attack, it came to me naturally. Even how to upgrade my product to handle the problems we faced when sales moved abroad. But then after my next attack, I had no idea why I had to use certain ingredients in a certain way to make it work when everyone else's failed.
I knew this was a possibility, so rewrote my complex formula in a way that even an 8 year old could duplicate my product knowing nothing about chemistry. It is a step by step method of what to buy and where, and in what order to blend which products, and how they all get blended together later, and how much time must elapse before the stop ingredient is added.
Heck, it's so simple even I understand how to make each unique ingredient, hi hi.
But if I look at the formula's I wrote, forget it, they no longer tell me anything.
Re: TinyPics Demise
I do something similar when confronted with technical problems. I have no degree in anything but there was a time I could solve a problem as efficiently as those who had 4-6 years of engineering school background. I simply tried a lot different things that seem apropos. It's called "shotgunning" and is frowned upon by the intellectual community. But it happens to work for me. After the problem is solved, then I reflect back on what I did and what worked. It then gets documented so that I can understand it. If anyone else can make sense of it, that's a bonus. The documentation has been a lifesaver a time or two. Now and days I document less and find a lot of good information on the Internet. Then, too, I have fewer technical problems.
Re: TinyPics Demise
There are things in construction that would never pass code back when I first got started, but now they pass easily.
Even though the newer materials were approved, I still did supply plumbing in copper, even though PVC would pass now.
Also, from all of my years working on steam pipes in our greenhouses, I learned a lot about expansion and what it can do to pipes.
I was working in a new house that was a little over 200 feet long. It had a bathroom at both ends of the house, actually it had four bathrooms, but the other three were all at one end, the bedroom end. They only had one water heater.
I suggested a second water heater at the other end of the house and they said no.
So when I ran the hot water line, every 30 feet I added a U so the pipe had a little spring to it to take up the expansion.
My boss saw this and complained about my use of extra fittings, those things are costly he hollered at me.
Yes I know boss, however, if you check the entire pipe you'll see I Swedged the pipe rather than use fittings, so I've actually used fewer fittings than would have been used in a straight run. And now we don't need a foot long flex tube at the end, which is even more costly. He just rubbed his chin and walked away.
When the plumbing inspector showed up, he made a comment to my boss. Sure wish all plumbers knew to do that! He didn't even inspect all of the work I did after he saw only a few of things I did he wrote off on the whole job.
I worked with a few plumbers as I was working my way up the ranks who did not know what a Swedge was or how to use it. I thought how did they get out of trade school, since most of them had gone to trade school.
Of course to be fair, most of them knew about all the new stuff being used that I knew little to nothing about. Other than I had to go and replace PEX headers that split in a few houses. I did not replace the header, I redid the whole piping section in the area the header was used. I also would not use any of those shark-bite fittings either. You know that O-ring is going to deteriorate at some point. Even though they would pass code, I wouldn't use them.
Even though the newer materials were approved, I still did supply plumbing in copper, even though PVC would pass now.
Also, from all of my years working on steam pipes in our greenhouses, I learned a lot about expansion and what it can do to pipes.
I was working in a new house that was a little over 200 feet long. It had a bathroom at both ends of the house, actually it had four bathrooms, but the other three were all at one end, the bedroom end. They only had one water heater.
I suggested a second water heater at the other end of the house and they said no.
So when I ran the hot water line, every 30 feet I added a U so the pipe had a little spring to it to take up the expansion.
My boss saw this and complained about my use of extra fittings, those things are costly he hollered at me.
Yes I know boss, however, if you check the entire pipe you'll see I Swedged the pipe rather than use fittings, so I've actually used fewer fittings than would have been used in a straight run. And now we don't need a foot long flex tube at the end, which is even more costly. He just rubbed his chin and walked away.
When the plumbing inspector showed up, he made a comment to my boss. Sure wish all plumbers knew to do that! He didn't even inspect all of the work I did after he saw only a few of things I did he wrote off on the whole job.
I worked with a few plumbers as I was working my way up the ranks who did not know what a Swedge was or how to use it. I thought how did they get out of trade school, since most of them had gone to trade school.
Of course to be fair, most of them knew about all the new stuff being used that I knew little to nothing about. Other than I had to go and replace PEX headers that split in a few houses. I did not replace the header, I redid the whole piping section in the area the header was used. I also would not use any of those shark-bite fittings either. You know that O-ring is going to deteriorate at some point. Even though they would pass code, I wouldn't use them.
Re: TinyPics Demise
So, I'm guessing, the tool you used most often as a plumber was a Swedge hammer. 
Re: TinyPics Demise
A pipe cutter is probably the most used tool when doing supply plumbing. Although the acetylene torches were also a tool.
Wait no, I take that back. Wire brushes and caps used for pipe cleaning and fitting cleaning has to be the most used tool, hi hi.
You've probably seen the long swedge used with a hammer. Those things are a royal PITA to use. After driving them in, then you have to get them out again.
I had a power swedge used with an air-hammer at first, but it was plagued with the same problem.
So I bought a Spin Swedge tool kit. Sometimes called a Spin Swager tool kit. Expensive, but easy peasy, and they don't wear out either, so worth the money. Meaning around 100 bucks, not the 400 dollar jobbies, hi hi.
Wait no, I take that back. Wire brushes and caps used for pipe cleaning and fitting cleaning has to be the most used tool, hi hi.
You've probably seen the long swedge used with a hammer. Those things are a royal PITA to use. After driving them in, then you have to get them out again.
I had a power swedge used with an air-hammer at first, but it was plagued with the same problem.
So I bought a Spin Swedge tool kit. Sometimes called a Spin Swager tool kit. Expensive, but easy peasy, and they don't wear out either, so worth the money. Meaning around 100 bucks, not the 400 dollar jobbies, hi hi.
Re: TinyPics Demise
Being in the remodeling business, I figured you did a lot of demolition and used a swedge hammer. I guess I was thinking of something else.
I had to look up what you were talking about and I did recognize it, but can't say I've seen much of that kind of joint. There are some pretty fancy machines out there for swagging, which seems synonymous with swedging. Too complicated for me. I'll stick to software on silicon.
I had to look up what you were talking about and I did recognize it, but can't say I've seen much of that kind of joint. There are some pretty fancy machines out there for swagging, which seems synonymous with swedging. Too complicated for me. I'll stick to software on silicon.