I knew custom poll tables could be made, but it never occurred to me that you could supply the raw materials for it. It must have been a beautiful table, certainly unique.
Changing directions slightly, let me pick your brain a bit regarding a problem on our front lawn that has been gradually getting worse. This was a display home and had most of the upgrades that could be put into it. I always found that hard to believe given my 30 year old patched up home up north was a lot better quality. Anyway, the sod was installed and well established when we purchased this home. An irrigation system was built in and comes in handy. From my perspective it's just another cost and maintenance issue that I didn't need.
About in the middle of the front lawn something strange is going on. The first year here some cracks opened up in the ground. Nothing severe about them and a few shovels full of top soil filled them. The following season it turned into a depression that was down from the surrounding grade about an inch or two. I'm talking about maybe a 3 foot by 5 foot oval. We had a landscaper out to do some other work and they dug this up a bit, leveled it off, and re-did the sod. I didn't like the sod because it had a lot of crab grass in it, but that's a different story. Now, as I look out the window the depression into the ground is 4, maybe 6, inches.
From what I can tell the sewer and water lines are well off to the side of this depression. Likewise the electric, gas, and cable lines are on the lot line, not in the middle of the lawn. I'm thinking sink hole, but haven't heard of any such things around here. In St Louis, yes. But not out this far. So, do you have any ideas regarding what could be the cause of the depression. And, who do I call to find out the cause?
Ski By Fire
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Re: Ski By Fire
On the pool table: The rail caps were made of Shedua, the hardest wood known to man. The upper sides were Rosewood, and all the rest of the exposed woods were Mahogany, including the legs.
OK, on to your sink-hole: It could be a lot of things, so I'll list a few.
Before the subdivision was built, and assuming they did a lot of fill. There could have been a creek they put into a concrete pipe 15 to 30 feet down, I've seen this done many times before they chopped off the hills and filled in the valleys.
There could have been a pond which was drained and filled, without digging out the mud bottom first.
There may be a storm drain down there that goes across the property but may or may not be part of the roadway storm drain system.
There could have been a septic tank there from a previous house, or perhaps your house may have had a septic tank before they installed a sanitary sewer system. In many cases, the new lateral line to the sewer is connected to your homes sanitary sewer at the inlet from your house to the septic tank and the basin left in place, and the lid has deteriorated.
I really doubt it is a true sink hole out there.
There could have been an old cistern or well for a farmhouse which was simply filled up and if it still held a little water, could be causing the organics in the fill soil to be consumed.
If you have access to a long steel rod, like an old long rebar, you could push it down in the area to see if you hit a septic tank. If that's it, eventually adding fill dirt will clog up the several lines that go out from it and you'll have it filled permanently.
It could also be your own lateral line has deteriorated and a little soil washes into it over time, but not enough to clog up your main lateral.
On another note: About fill dirt. One cubic foot of compressed soil, will produce five 5-gallon buckets of dirt. So when loose soil is used to fill a hole, it will recompress over time so those 5-gallons of dirt become only one cubic foot again.
It could be this is what is going on as well.
When I was digging out my crawl space under the house, I used the dirt to fill the front yard. It took a couple of years to get the soil back up to where I graded it down to, because it would recompact and drop down from my intended grade height. After about three years of adding another layer across the front yard, it finally stayed where I wanted it to.
Good luck on figuring it out. Hope it is nothing serious.
OK, on to your sink-hole: It could be a lot of things, so I'll list a few.
Before the subdivision was built, and assuming they did a lot of fill. There could have been a creek they put into a concrete pipe 15 to 30 feet down, I've seen this done many times before they chopped off the hills and filled in the valleys.
There could have been a pond which was drained and filled, without digging out the mud bottom first.
There may be a storm drain down there that goes across the property but may or may not be part of the roadway storm drain system.
There could have been a septic tank there from a previous house, or perhaps your house may have had a septic tank before they installed a sanitary sewer system. In many cases, the new lateral line to the sewer is connected to your homes sanitary sewer at the inlet from your house to the septic tank and the basin left in place, and the lid has deteriorated.
I really doubt it is a true sink hole out there.
There could have been an old cistern or well for a farmhouse which was simply filled up and if it still held a little water, could be causing the organics in the fill soil to be consumed.
If you have access to a long steel rod, like an old long rebar, you could push it down in the area to see if you hit a septic tank. If that's it, eventually adding fill dirt will clog up the several lines that go out from it and you'll have it filled permanently.
It could also be your own lateral line has deteriorated and a little soil washes into it over time, but not enough to clog up your main lateral.
On another note: About fill dirt. One cubic foot of compressed soil, will produce five 5-gallon buckets of dirt. So when loose soil is used to fill a hole, it will recompress over time so those 5-gallons of dirt become only one cubic foot again.
It could be this is what is going on as well.
When I was digging out my crawl space under the house, I used the dirt to fill the front yard. It took a couple of years to get the soil back up to where I graded it down to, because it would recompact and drop down from my intended grade height. After about three years of adding another layer across the front yard, it finally stayed where I wanted it to.
Good luck on figuring it out. Hope it is nothing serious.
Re: Ski By Fire
From where in the world did you get Shedua? LOL What did they use to form that stuff? I'd guess nothing less than diamonds would be able to cut into it.
Thanks for all the ideas regarding my sunken garden, err, lawn. My house is built into the side of what I can only describe as a ridge. The ridge runs about 1/4th mile parallel the street down from my house . It's this ridge arrangement that allows me to have a walkout basement. Earth is only on three sides of the house. The sinking is at the front of the house and I'm guessing not a great place to put a septic tank if one were to do such a thing. There actually are two rolling ridges. If I walk out my basement door about 25 feet, there is another ridge that drops 4-5 feet. So, I'm thinking a septic tank would be placed at the bottom of such a hilly arrangement and not at the top. But, I know nothing of the history here so that anything is possible.
One thought out of my past experiences crossed my mind. I had a few huge willows removed from my old house. They were too large in girth for me to handle with my 16" chain saw. LOL I paid extra to remove the stump and was curious how they were going to do it. It was only $50 extra. They came by with something like a 4 foot diameter circular saw that they could sweep from side to side. They cut into the stump, thus turning it into chips. They also churned up a lot of dirt in the process so that the final product was a hill of dirt and wood chips. It all was left in place and took a few years for that hill to return back to the original grading level. I had to touch it up once to make it pretty, but it sort of fixed itself over time.
If they removed a tree and its stump from the front of my house, they probably did the same thing as I had done up north. If they also graded the ground level and didn't leave the hill of chips, then I could explain how the depression came to be. The wood chips have decomposed by now and the earth (clay actually) is now compacted again. The shape of the depression could be what I've seen that stump remover do as it swings from side to side.
One thing I can say about the storm sewer system here is that it is fantastically efficient. The streets drain quickly regardless of how much rain comes down from heaven. There is a storm sewer on my neighbor's property at the bottom of the first ridge. I have a mini wetland and the grass is always green along the strip leading up to the drain. It amazes me in some ways because the ground is only wet for a few days after a heavy rain, but the grass is always green even in August. A third system is apparently running along the bottom of the second ridge. I can see the sewer in a neighbor's back yard in the opposite direction. That area is almost always wet and doesn't drain as well as it does up the hills. That makes sense given the properties of gravity. LOL
So, there are a lot of underground pipes, somewhere. The depression in my lawn seems to be in the wrong place to be over one of them. But again, I don't know the history of this area. I'll probably have to call somebody out to dig it up and see what's at the bottom. Hopefully nothing.
Thanks for all the ideas regarding my sunken garden, err, lawn. My house is built into the side of what I can only describe as a ridge. The ridge runs about 1/4th mile parallel the street down from my house . It's this ridge arrangement that allows me to have a walkout basement. Earth is only on three sides of the house. The sinking is at the front of the house and I'm guessing not a great place to put a septic tank if one were to do such a thing. There actually are two rolling ridges. If I walk out my basement door about 25 feet, there is another ridge that drops 4-5 feet. So, I'm thinking a septic tank would be placed at the bottom of such a hilly arrangement and not at the top. But, I know nothing of the history here so that anything is possible.
One thought out of my past experiences crossed my mind. I had a few huge willows removed from my old house. They were too large in girth for me to handle with my 16" chain saw. LOL I paid extra to remove the stump and was curious how they were going to do it. It was only $50 extra. They came by with something like a 4 foot diameter circular saw that they could sweep from side to side. They cut into the stump, thus turning it into chips. They also churned up a lot of dirt in the process so that the final product was a hill of dirt and wood chips. It all was left in place and took a few years for that hill to return back to the original grading level. I had to touch it up once to make it pretty, but it sort of fixed itself over time.
If they removed a tree and its stump from the front of my house, they probably did the same thing as I had done up north. If they also graded the ground level and didn't leave the hill of chips, then I could explain how the depression came to be. The wood chips have decomposed by now and the earth (clay actually) is now compacted again. The shape of the depression could be what I've seen that stump remover do as it swings from side to side.
One thing I can say about the storm sewer system here is that it is fantastically efficient. The streets drain quickly regardless of how much rain comes down from heaven. There is a storm sewer on my neighbor's property at the bottom of the first ridge. I have a mini wetland and the grass is always green along the strip leading up to the drain. It amazes me in some ways because the ground is only wet for a few days after a heavy rain, but the grass is always green even in August. A third system is apparently running along the bottom of the second ridge. I can see the sewer in a neighbor's back yard in the opposite direction. That area is almost always wet and doesn't drain as well as it does up the hills. That makes sense given the properties of gravity. LOL
So, there are a lot of underground pipes, somewhere. The depression in my lawn seems to be in the wrong place to be over one of them. But again, I don't know the history of this area. I'll probably have to call somebody out to dig it up and see what's at the bottom. Hopefully nothing.
Re: Ski By Fire
On the Shedua: I got mine from a guitar manufacturer who claimed it was harder than previous shipments he received. He sold it to me at his cost if I could come get it out of his way PDQ. Thinking there was more than there actually was, I brought one of our larger vans. Heck, I could have fit all of it in a compact car. There were a dozen six foot long by six inch wide pieces is all. This is also why I went with Rosewood for the upper sides of the pool table, I had plenty of that on hand.
We had a huge willow tree removed from our yard, and they used a stump grinder to get it down below grade. On or about the third year, the back wheel of my lawn mower dropped down into a hole that had formed under the grass. Just glad someone didn't step on it and break a leg.
I planted a wagon wheel pine there first, and it did great for a couple of years, then upped and died for no reason. Replaced it with another tree which is doing wonderfully now, and has grown large and full now.
So it is very possible there was once a tree in the location of which you speak.
I agree, not likely a septic tank or cistern would be on the uphill side of you, unless there was once a house built up there which was razed before your subdivision was built.
Where I lived in Creve Coeur, we had three separate sewer systems. Two of them were in my front yard by the street, under the roadway easement, but still my yard area I had to mow. The easement was 50 feet wide, and the street only 25 feet wide, so we had about 15 feet on my side of the street before my property line.
Near the edge of the street was the Storm Sewer system, a 16 inch square concrete pipe. More on this later.
About three feet from the edge of the road, and fifteen feet down was the eight inch diameter Sanitary Sewer my six inch lateral line tied into. Had to replace that once about two years before I moved out.
The third sewer belonged to the Watershed. It ran diagonally under the entire subdivision, and had three other smaller Watershed lines tied to it within the boundaries of our subdivision. None of the Watershed lines were under my property, but did cross my neighbor two doors down. The thing here is though, it was over 20 feet where his house sat. But almost up near ground level as it got closer to Ross Road. The ground sloped that much in that area.
Now back to the Storm Sewer System. My house was getting to be about 30 years old, give or take, when we started getting a sinkhole in the front yard. The city came out and filled it up a couple of times, but it came right back again after a storm. No biggie, it gave me a place to dump my yard waste, hi hi. This actually helped it from sinking so fast after they brought out another load of rock and dirt.
Suddenly, after a storm we had a huge hole we could look down with a flashlight and see running water down there.
The city came out to have a look, then the next day they were there with a backhoe. Dug up at least 10 feet along the road and about 4 feet into the yard. They apparently decided the sewer was intact, except for the small section of the top that deteriorated and fell in, probably a little at a time over the years.
Now you can laugh at how they fixed it.
They laid a sheet of plywood over the hole in the top of the pipe, and after setting up a form to keep it from covering the whole bottom of the hole they dug, they poured about eight inches of concrete over the hole in the sewer, right on top of the plywood. Waited about a week then dumped a load of gravel, and followed up with rocky dirt on top of that. Spread some straw and grass seed over the dirt and pulled a green cheesecloth like cloth over it all and stuck that down with plastic pins.
I'm sure the plywood would rot away in about three years or less, and allow the concrete to settle down over the top of the square sewer pipe. Even so, we never had any more sinkholes from the sewer the rest of the time I lived there.
I had an uncle who lived out in Fenton for a short time. Back when the subdivision he lived in was built, every house had a cistern under their back porch. Long forgotten since they had city water for a decade before he moved in. Well not exactly forgotten, because whoever owned the house before him cut a wall through the foundation to make a root cellar out of the abandoned cistern.
He too lived on a fairly steep hill, and a small rock embankment was just beyond his back yard. He lived there about two years before he noticed water started coming out of the rock. Thought it had something to do with a new highway that was put through about half a mile above where he lived. Figured they probably caused a spring to be diverted.
He went to all the trouble to add a small pipe and build a pool for the water and made an overflow pipe that ran all the way down to a normally dry watershed. It looked nice for about three months. About the time he was ready to go get the water samples he collected tested to see if it was safe to drink, it stopped flowing. He figured it might start up again after a rain, so went ahead and had the water tested. It was not spring water, but water from an old cistern and loaded with toxic gasses, hi hi. So apparently some house above him still had water in their cistern and it sprung a leak.
All was not lost though, he just bought a circulating pump to keep his fountain and pool going, hi hi.
We had a huge willow tree removed from our yard, and they used a stump grinder to get it down below grade. On or about the third year, the back wheel of my lawn mower dropped down into a hole that had formed under the grass. Just glad someone didn't step on it and break a leg.
I planted a wagon wheel pine there first, and it did great for a couple of years, then upped and died for no reason. Replaced it with another tree which is doing wonderfully now, and has grown large and full now.
So it is very possible there was once a tree in the location of which you speak.
I agree, not likely a septic tank or cistern would be on the uphill side of you, unless there was once a house built up there which was razed before your subdivision was built.
Where I lived in Creve Coeur, we had three separate sewer systems. Two of them were in my front yard by the street, under the roadway easement, but still my yard area I had to mow. The easement was 50 feet wide, and the street only 25 feet wide, so we had about 15 feet on my side of the street before my property line.
Near the edge of the street was the Storm Sewer system, a 16 inch square concrete pipe. More on this later.
About three feet from the edge of the road, and fifteen feet down was the eight inch diameter Sanitary Sewer my six inch lateral line tied into. Had to replace that once about two years before I moved out.
The third sewer belonged to the Watershed. It ran diagonally under the entire subdivision, and had three other smaller Watershed lines tied to it within the boundaries of our subdivision. None of the Watershed lines were under my property, but did cross my neighbor two doors down. The thing here is though, it was over 20 feet where his house sat. But almost up near ground level as it got closer to Ross Road. The ground sloped that much in that area.
Now back to the Storm Sewer System. My house was getting to be about 30 years old, give or take, when we started getting a sinkhole in the front yard. The city came out and filled it up a couple of times, but it came right back again after a storm. No biggie, it gave me a place to dump my yard waste, hi hi. This actually helped it from sinking so fast after they brought out another load of rock and dirt.
Suddenly, after a storm we had a huge hole we could look down with a flashlight and see running water down there.
The city came out to have a look, then the next day they were there with a backhoe. Dug up at least 10 feet along the road and about 4 feet into the yard. They apparently decided the sewer was intact, except for the small section of the top that deteriorated and fell in, probably a little at a time over the years.
Now you can laugh at how they fixed it.
They laid a sheet of plywood over the hole in the top of the pipe, and after setting up a form to keep it from covering the whole bottom of the hole they dug, they poured about eight inches of concrete over the hole in the sewer, right on top of the plywood. Waited about a week then dumped a load of gravel, and followed up with rocky dirt on top of that. Spread some straw and grass seed over the dirt and pulled a green cheesecloth like cloth over it all and stuck that down with plastic pins.
I'm sure the plywood would rot away in about three years or less, and allow the concrete to settle down over the top of the square sewer pipe. Even so, we never had any more sinkholes from the sewer the rest of the time I lived there.
I had an uncle who lived out in Fenton for a short time. Back when the subdivision he lived in was built, every house had a cistern under their back porch. Long forgotten since they had city water for a decade before he moved in. Well not exactly forgotten, because whoever owned the house before him cut a wall through the foundation to make a root cellar out of the abandoned cistern.
He too lived on a fairly steep hill, and a small rock embankment was just beyond his back yard. He lived there about two years before he noticed water started coming out of the rock. Thought it had something to do with a new highway that was put through about half a mile above where he lived. Figured they probably caused a spring to be diverted.
He went to all the trouble to add a small pipe and build a pool for the water and made an overflow pipe that ran all the way down to a normally dry watershed. It looked nice for about three months. About the time he was ready to go get the water samples he collected tested to see if it was safe to drink, it stopped flowing. He figured it might start up again after a rain, so went ahead and had the water tested. It was not spring water, but water from an old cistern and loaded with toxic gasses, hi hi. So apparently some house above him still had water in their cistern and it sprung a leak.
All was not lost though, he just bought a circulating pump to keep his fountain and pool going, hi hi.
Re: Ski By Fire
The site of my house would make a great location for and old farm house given that it overlooks the lowland to the south. I can just imagine how beautiful the view would be if it were not for the row houses and the subdivision that is occupying the space now. However, the soil is not suitable for farming in my opinion. It's nothing but yellow clay and rock below the sod. I don't know the topology and can't say what the soil conditions are like in the surrounding areas, but if it's like what I have here then I can't imagine what a farmer could grow here. Then again, there is a lot of prairie growth and trees, so who knows?
The patch for the sewer does seem a little odd for a fellow who is not a civil engineer (me). I can only guess they did it that way because it was cheaper than replacing the broken pipe. Then again, as you observed, that plywood will deteriorate and things will start to settle again. Maybe not as bad, but I would have expected some kind of depression.
Well, my former house had water just 11" below the basement floor. I had two pumps in the sump hole with one running on battery power just in case. My fear was that one day it would rain so hard that the pumps could not keep up with the ground water. It turns out my worst fears never materialized and I am now on relatively dry land. I don't think the sump pump here ever went off since we've been in this house. There may not be an underground spring below my basement, but I'm beginning to wonder if some day I'll be able to see all they way down to China some day.
The patch for the sewer does seem a little odd for a fellow who is not a civil engineer (me). I can only guess they did it that way because it was cheaper than replacing the broken pipe. Then again, as you observed, that plywood will deteriorate and things will start to settle again. Maybe not as bad, but I would have expected some kind of depression.
Well, my former house had water just 11" below the basement floor. I had two pumps in the sump hole with one running on battery power just in case. My fear was that one day it would rain so hard that the pumps could not keep up with the ground water. It turns out my worst fears never materialized and I am now on relatively dry land. I don't think the sump pump here ever went off since we've been in this house. There may not be an underground spring below my basement, but I'm beginning to wonder if some day I'll be able to see all they way down to China some day.
Re: Ski By Fire
I'm not going to name names or location here. Don't want to get anyone in trouble, hi hi.
After the city installed water lines, it was mandatory for all homes to be connected to the water supply.
Nothing unusual about that. Many of the homes still had their wells, and they were operational. But a couple of years after the water lines were installed, they passed yet another law that well water could not have a line leading to the house, but could be used for irrigation and animals. Over time, all the wells were abandoned, perhaps by the city upping the minimum charge for water on the utility bills.
Down here, the sewer bill escalated until it is two to five times higher than the water bill.
So, the person in question decided to tap into the water table under his house with a spike well, hidden inside one of the sump pump tanks under his floor. It only goes down about twelve feet. He uses the water from this well for his garden, and to all the outdoor spigots, for washing his cars and driveway. I think it also goes to his toilets, but not sure about that. City water is used for the kitchen and bathroom sinks and for taking showers, but all other water used in the house comes from his well. He rarely goes over the minimum charge on water, which keeps his sewer bill low too.
To hear him talk is sorta funny, he says it's not really illegal, because their is no pipe running from the wells pump house to his house, since the well is inside the house, hi hi.
After the city installed water lines, it was mandatory for all homes to be connected to the water supply.
Nothing unusual about that. Many of the homes still had their wells, and they were operational. But a couple of years after the water lines were installed, they passed yet another law that well water could not have a line leading to the house, but could be used for irrigation and animals. Over time, all the wells were abandoned, perhaps by the city upping the minimum charge for water on the utility bills.
Down here, the sewer bill escalated until it is two to five times higher than the water bill.
So, the person in question decided to tap into the water table under his house with a spike well, hidden inside one of the sump pump tanks under his floor. It only goes down about twelve feet. He uses the water from this well for his garden, and to all the outdoor spigots, for washing his cars and driveway. I think it also goes to his toilets, but not sure about that. City water is used for the kitchen and bathroom sinks and for taking showers, but all other water used in the house comes from his well. He rarely goes over the minimum charge on water, which keeps his sewer bill low too.
To hear him talk is sorta funny, he says it's not really illegal, because their is no pipe running from the wells pump house to his house, since the well is inside the house, hi hi.
Re: Ski By Fire
Well, don't know the situation, but I'm betting the city can make that connection illegal if they wanted to. LOL
Many years ago in my home up north there was a court case about amateur radio antenna towers. Apparently the village knew they could not ban ham radio operators, but they did have jurisdiction over what can be built on your property. So, they tried to enforce a ban specifically on transmission towers. That didn't work so all towers were banned. That didn't work either. So then the village imposed a tower tax of something like $700 annually for each tower you had erected. It got to the point that there was some legal action needed to define exactly what is a tower. Stringing up a dipole between your house and your garage, for example, did not require a tower per se. In the end even a nail into your facia board was considered a tower if it was holding an antenna in place. This case involved a single resident who simply wanted to operate his station legally, but was frowned upon by the neighbors and the village board. In the end, after many years of court battling, the guy moved out.
So, if the village wants to get you, they can.
Many years ago in my home up north there was a court case about amateur radio antenna towers. Apparently the village knew they could not ban ham radio operators, but they did have jurisdiction over what can be built on your property. So, they tried to enforce a ban specifically on transmission towers. That didn't work so all towers were banned. That didn't work either. So then the village imposed a tower tax of something like $700 annually for each tower you had erected. It got to the point that there was some legal action needed to define exactly what is a tower. Stringing up a dipole between your house and your garage, for example, did not require a tower per se. In the end even a nail into your facia board was considered a tower if it was holding an antenna in place. This case involved a single resident who simply wanted to operate his station legally, but was frowned upon by the neighbors and the village board. In the end, after many years of court battling, the guy moved out.
So, if the village wants to get you, they can.
Re: Ski By Fire
One of the reasons I dropped my ARRL membership had to do with outdoor antenna's.
Not that I had any huge antenna's like I had in later years.
My dad bought one of the first houses in a new subdivision, and of course they had HOA regulations.
This was back in 1966 long before Cable, so nearly everyone had a TV Antenna mounted on their chimney. A few folks had those really big Yagi style TV Antenna's and sometimes more than one pointed in different directions.
I built a small 2-meter Yagi and placed it midway up the pole my dad's TV antenna was on. Plus I had a couple of dipoles running from it to the corners of the house, nothing unsightly for sure.
My 2-meter Yagi was about 2 feet shorter than our next door neighbors TV antenna.
Dad got a letter that we had to take down all antenna's that were not strictly for TV. And dad, being a stickler for the HOA rules did so without complaint.
At that time, I was an 8 year member of the ARRL and read many articles where they came to bat for homeowners facing HAM Radio antenna restrictions. I spent about a year working with the ARRL to get them to do something.
In the interim, I made several hidden antenna's, so was still on the air in a limited way.
Here is what took the icing off the cake between me and the ARRL.
A new neighbor moved in caddy-corner across the intersection from our house.
They erected a 75 foot massive tower and had several HUGE beams mounted atop the tower, plus several other antenna's, dipoles and ground planes sticking out the sides. Looked like a commercial radio station over there.
Turns out, the father built all of this for his son, who was only a Novice (the lowest class of license), but was working on getting his Technicians license also, and or already had it.
I learned he was not even a member of ARRL until after they moved in, and the tower went up a few weeks after that.
After they got a letter from the subdivision HOA department, the ARRL came out in full-force filing suit against the subdivision. They won their suit of course and his antenna tower and antenna's stayed up.
Hearing this, I contacted the ARRL again to see if I can put my antenna's back up. All they said was talk to our HOA director. I did, and got nowhere with them. Asked the ARRL to go to bat for me, now a 9 or 10 year member like they did for the new Novice across the street. They said that was a special case and mine wasn't. Say what?
I dropped my ARRL membership after that. I don't think they liked the fact I dropped them, because when I went to get copies of my awards after our second flood, they didn't show I had earned any. So needless to say, I've been anti-ARRL ever since.
Not that I had any huge antenna's like I had in later years.
My dad bought one of the first houses in a new subdivision, and of course they had HOA regulations.
This was back in 1966 long before Cable, so nearly everyone had a TV Antenna mounted on their chimney. A few folks had those really big Yagi style TV Antenna's and sometimes more than one pointed in different directions.
I built a small 2-meter Yagi and placed it midway up the pole my dad's TV antenna was on. Plus I had a couple of dipoles running from it to the corners of the house, nothing unsightly for sure.
My 2-meter Yagi was about 2 feet shorter than our next door neighbors TV antenna.
Dad got a letter that we had to take down all antenna's that were not strictly for TV. And dad, being a stickler for the HOA rules did so without complaint.
At that time, I was an 8 year member of the ARRL and read many articles where they came to bat for homeowners facing HAM Radio antenna restrictions. I spent about a year working with the ARRL to get them to do something.
In the interim, I made several hidden antenna's, so was still on the air in a limited way.
Here is what took the icing off the cake between me and the ARRL.
A new neighbor moved in caddy-corner across the intersection from our house.
They erected a 75 foot massive tower and had several HUGE beams mounted atop the tower, plus several other antenna's, dipoles and ground planes sticking out the sides. Looked like a commercial radio station over there.
Turns out, the father built all of this for his son, who was only a Novice (the lowest class of license), but was working on getting his Technicians license also, and or already had it.
I learned he was not even a member of ARRL until after they moved in, and the tower went up a few weeks after that.
After they got a letter from the subdivision HOA department, the ARRL came out in full-force filing suit against the subdivision. They won their suit of course and his antenna tower and antenna's stayed up.
Hearing this, I contacted the ARRL again to see if I can put my antenna's back up. All they said was talk to our HOA director. I did, and got nowhere with them. Asked the ARRL to go to bat for me, now a 9 or 10 year member like they did for the new Novice across the street. They said that was a special case and mine wasn't. Say what?
I dropped my ARRL membership after that. I don't think they liked the fact I dropped them, because when I went to get copies of my awards after our second flood, they didn't show I had earned any. So needless to say, I've been anti-ARRL ever since.
Re: Ski By Fire
75 feet tall is a huge antenna that would get the FAA involved in my old neighborhood. We were 7-8 miles from O'Hare International and well below the floor for the glide path, but there was a limit on tower height. I'm thinking it was 50 feet off the ground, but I could be mistaken.
The only thing more useless than the ARRL, in my humble opinion, is the local HOA which is supervised by an equally useless property management company. I never had a gripe with the ARRL even though a few of my ham buddies did; such as yourself. I just could not see the point. I think I got a code certificate from them simply because they were the ones broadcasting the test. But, I never joined officially and never heard of anything good that came from them. The assist to your neighbor with the tower must have been REALLY special. That neighbor probably donated big bucks to the ARRL. LOL
The only thing more useless than the ARRL, in my humble opinion, is the local HOA which is supervised by an equally useless property management company. I never had a gripe with the ARRL even though a few of my ham buddies did; such as yourself. I just could not see the point. I think I got a code certificate from them simply because they were the ones broadcasting the test. But, I never joined officially and never heard of anything good that came from them. The assist to your neighbor with the tower must have been REALLY special. That neighbor probably donated big bucks to the ARRL. LOL
Re: Ski By Fire
I had earned several ARRL awards, such as Worked all States (several times on different bands), Worked all Continents, Worked all African Continent. And numerous Code Proficiency Awards when I worked 40 and 80 meter CW.
I even got a Commendation Letter for helping students and teachers out of a School building fire before the fire department arrived. I saw the flames in the basement, before smoke even started penetrating the 1st floor, radioed in the fire, then ran down the halls to warn everyone to get out until I spotted a fire alarm and pulled it. I have no idea how the ARRL found out in order to send me the certificate.
On another note: I was invited to join the Quarter Century Wireless Association, by a member who knew me since I first got into Ham Radio. The QCWA turned me down as not being a Ham long enough. Say what? I had all the documentation to prove it, including a copy of my original transmitter ID card, which was required back then.
It turns out, they only go by the published Radio Amateurs Call Book. A book that has made numerous mistakes over the years concerning my license. You can only be listed in the Call Book under ONE license. Yet I was able to show the QCWA where the Call Book mistakenly had me listed under three different licenses in the same book the very year I was being turned down by them. I also managed to get a copy of the Call Book showing my first license and it showed the person who gave me the test as the holder of the call sign instead of me. This same error carried through for several years, until I upgraded, and renewed with a new call sign.
Then the FCC messed up big time again. Although I held a valid license in my hand, when I went to upgrade again, my paperwork was rejected, saying I did not hold a call sign at the time I upgraded. It took many months to get this straightened out. But rather than wait on the red tape, I went ahead and retook all of the tests to work my way from Novice all the way up to Advanced. I had planned on taking the Extra test that day too, but time ran out. Then I waited to long and forgot what all I would need to know to pass the Extra exam. So am still an Advanced, a class that no longer exists, except for us oldsters who still hold that class, hi hi.
I even got a Commendation Letter for helping students and teachers out of a School building fire before the fire department arrived. I saw the flames in the basement, before smoke even started penetrating the 1st floor, radioed in the fire, then ran down the halls to warn everyone to get out until I spotted a fire alarm and pulled it. I have no idea how the ARRL found out in order to send me the certificate.
On another note: I was invited to join the Quarter Century Wireless Association, by a member who knew me since I first got into Ham Radio. The QCWA turned me down as not being a Ham long enough. Say what? I had all the documentation to prove it, including a copy of my original transmitter ID card, which was required back then.
It turns out, they only go by the published Radio Amateurs Call Book. A book that has made numerous mistakes over the years concerning my license. You can only be listed in the Call Book under ONE license. Yet I was able to show the QCWA where the Call Book mistakenly had me listed under three different licenses in the same book the very year I was being turned down by them. I also managed to get a copy of the Call Book showing my first license and it showed the person who gave me the test as the holder of the call sign instead of me. This same error carried through for several years, until I upgraded, and renewed with a new call sign.
Then the FCC messed up big time again. Although I held a valid license in my hand, when I went to upgrade again, my paperwork was rejected, saying I did not hold a call sign at the time I upgraded. It took many months to get this straightened out. But rather than wait on the red tape, I went ahead and retook all of the tests to work my way from Novice all the way up to Advanced. I had planned on taking the Extra test that day too, but time ran out. Then I waited to long and forgot what all I would need to know to pass the Extra exam. So am still an Advanced, a class that no longer exists, except for us oldsters who still hold that class, hi hi.
Re: Ski By Fire
about yer sinkhole, dennis, what if it's buried treasure? 
Re: Ski By Fire
The bottom line for me in amateur radio is much like the purpose for me being here on this website. Awards are nice but essentially meaningless. It's the people I met who made my amateur years worth experiencing. I wasn't into building my own rigs so that demonstrating my technical skills wasn't the issue either. All my rigs were purchased off the shelf. Taking the tests was just a means to an end. I learned most of my electronic skills at work and not in prep for any FCC license. So, the ARRL might be a way for certain people to achieve recognition for their efforts and knowledge. But, I didn't need the ARRL to accomplish the same things.
There is a lot I don't know about where I currently live. We are pretty far from any significant waters where pirates might have lurked so that I doubt Spanish Doubloons are buried beneath my sod. Some one of these days I'm going to ask the neighbors what was here before they built the house. My best guess is a large tree was where that sunken sod is. It's something that came up (or sunk down) recently and a former tree is the most likely candidate for an explanation. But then, as Gary points out, there could be a network of sewers that is deteriorating. I'm not too anxious to find THAT out.
There is a lot I don't know about where I currently live. We are pretty far from any significant waters where pirates might have lurked so that I doubt Spanish Doubloons are buried beneath my sod. Some one of these days I'm going to ask the neighbors what was here before they built the house. My best guess is a large tree was where that sunken sod is. It's something that came up (or sunk down) recently and a former tree is the most likely candidate for an explanation. But then, as Gary points out, there could be a network of sewers that is deteriorating. I'm not too anxious to find THAT out.
Re: Ski By Fire
For almost two decades nearly everything in my ham shack I built from kits, or home-brewed.
I loved Heathkit products and had nearly everything they offered, including their GR2000 (I think it was) TV.
Funny though, it didn't last until 2000 hi hi.
One of my uncles boys dug up his entire back yard looking for gold. They figured if a neighbor half mile away found some, they would too. They never did, hi hi.
Shortly after I moved down here, I bought a better metal detector, considering battlegrounds were all around us.
I found several items, but none worth anything.
But by going around the tracks and under the bleachers at the parks, I found enough to recoup the cost of my detector.
I loved Heathkit products and had nearly everything they offered, including their GR2000 (I think it was) TV.
Funny though, it didn't last until 2000 hi hi.
One of my uncles boys dug up his entire back yard looking for gold. They figured if a neighbor half mile away found some, they would too. They never did, hi hi.
Shortly after I moved down here, I bought a better metal detector, considering battlegrounds were all around us.
I found several items, but none worth anything.
But by going around the tracks and under the bleachers at the parks, I found enough to recoup the cost of my detector.
Re: Ski By Fire
My wife of many years inquired of the neighbors about the condition of our property before a house was built upon it. Apparently nothing but prairie grass lived on our land and a fairly young crab apple tree off to the corner in our back yard. So, the mystery of the sunken lawn is alive and well.
Procuring a metal detector has been in the back of my mind for a long while. I've never found a compelling reason to act upon my thoughts however. Combing over ancient battlegrounds seems like an wonderful pastime. However, I think I would be more interested in combing the beaches were something relevant to my days may be found. Such as a lost cell phone. When I win the lotto I'll have a winter home in the Florida Keys. A metal detector might be a fun thing to have down there.
I built a Heathkit or two in my days. I believe that is how I acquired a phone patch. Of all the kits I saw none of them appeared to be of any significant quality. The fact that they worked at all depended entirely upon my building skills. It was just easier to go to Radio Shack and buy what I wanted than to build it. Besides, Radio Shack offered a guarantee and would repair/replace something that was delivered broken. A (wealthy) buddy of mine had a Collins S Line of ham gear. I always thought my dream gear would be Collins. Well, I'm still dreaming, but no gear in my immediate future.
Procuring a metal detector has been in the back of my mind for a long while. I've never found a compelling reason to act upon my thoughts however. Combing over ancient battlegrounds seems like an wonderful pastime. However, I think I would be more interested in combing the beaches were something relevant to my days may be found. Such as a lost cell phone. When I win the lotto I'll have a winter home in the Florida Keys. A metal detector might be a fun thing to have down there.
I built a Heathkit or two in my days. I believe that is how I acquired a phone patch. Of all the kits I saw none of them appeared to be of any significant quality. The fact that they worked at all depended entirely upon my building skills. It was just easier to go to Radio Shack and buy what I wanted than to build it. Besides, Radio Shack offered a guarantee and would repair/replace something that was delivered broken. A (wealthy) buddy of mine had a Collins S Line of ham gear. I always thought my dream gear would be Collins. Well, I'm still dreaming, but no gear in my immediate future.
Re: Ski By Fire
I slowly worked my way up to Kenwood. I have a TS830-S sitting right behind me, but not hooked up.
It was one of the last tube driven units, I think.
I did have a few Hallicrafters and an older Collins for a short time.
None of my Heathkit gear gave me any trouble at all, and almost ever piece of Heathkit equipment I sold decades later fetched well more than I paid for it new. Well, except for things like the TV and other household items, but the Ham Gear and Test Equipment fetched good money when I sold off all my Heathkit collection.
I was still using an old Heathkit Sixer Lunchbox up until I bought a Kenwood 6-meter transceiver.
In fact, the Sixer was one of my first Heathkit radio products, after I did other Heathkit things first.
I also had several Micronta kits from Radio Shack, and many things from when they were Allied Electronics.
Radio Shack had other kits also, but some of the names slip my mind, I think KnightKit was one of them.
Since moving south, I've never had time to set-up my ham station like it was at home. I did have some simple antenna's up and worked a few local repeaters on VHF/UHF, but it just wasn't the same crowd. Most of those on 2-meters down here were farmers out in the fields on their tractors, talking business more or less.
Also, compared to back home where an unlicensed operator would be tracked down in a matter of minutes or hours. Down here, there were hundreds of illegal operators on all the time. Their own little circle of illegal operators tying up several bands, and in some cases the repeaters. For this reason, there are only a couple of open repeaters down here.
It was one of the last tube driven units, I think.
I did have a few Hallicrafters and an older Collins for a short time.
None of my Heathkit gear gave me any trouble at all, and almost ever piece of Heathkit equipment I sold decades later fetched well more than I paid for it new. Well, except for things like the TV and other household items, but the Ham Gear and Test Equipment fetched good money when I sold off all my Heathkit collection.
I was still using an old Heathkit Sixer Lunchbox up until I bought a Kenwood 6-meter transceiver.
In fact, the Sixer was one of my first Heathkit radio products, after I did other Heathkit things first.
I also had several Micronta kits from Radio Shack, and many things from when they were Allied Electronics.
Radio Shack had other kits also, but some of the names slip my mind, I think KnightKit was one of them.
Since moving south, I've never had time to set-up my ham station like it was at home. I did have some simple antenna's up and worked a few local repeaters on VHF/UHF, but it just wasn't the same crowd. Most of those on 2-meters down here were farmers out in the fields on their tractors, talking business more or less.
Also, compared to back home where an unlicensed operator would be tracked down in a matter of minutes or hours. Down here, there were hundreds of illegal operators on all the time. Their own little circle of illegal operators tying up several bands, and in some cases the repeaters. For this reason, there are only a couple of open repeaters down here.
Re: Ski By Fire
KnightKit is correct. I was buying electronics before RadioShack broke loose from Allied to stand alone. I'm not sure why Allied did that. Perhaps they didn't want to be bothered with consumer products anymore. In any case the KnigtKit name rang a bell when you mentioned it. I don't recall what I built, but I know it was something. 
Your 2/6 meter experiences sound like the good old CB radio days. People would put linear amps on their 5 watt transmitters and talk to Cuba. It was totally illegal, of course, but the FCC couldn't triangulate them fast enough before they disappeared and took on some other identity. There were only a couple CB channels up in Chicago area that were sane enough to use, but those high powered rigs would bleed over and flood the entire band. I used to think it was all kids until one day a buddy of mine at Motorola disappeared for a few days. Apparently the FCC wanted to have a conversation with him.
I never ventured higher than ten meters when I was operating a station. I liked ten meters because it was mostly dead and unused. Propagation was a problem and only local contacts seemed possible most of the time. I got involved with a few fellow chess players on ten meters. We would sit there all night and various people would drop in and out of our game play. I miss those round-table discussions. It was the essence of amateur radio, IMHO.
Your 2/6 meter experiences sound like the good old CB radio days. People would put linear amps on their 5 watt transmitters and talk to Cuba. It was totally illegal, of course, but the FCC couldn't triangulate them fast enough before they disappeared and took on some other identity. There were only a couple CB channels up in Chicago area that were sane enough to use, but those high powered rigs would bleed over and flood the entire band. I used to think it was all kids until one day a buddy of mine at Motorola disappeared for a few days. Apparently the FCC wanted to have a conversation with him.
I never ventured higher than ten meters when I was operating a station. I liked ten meters because it was mostly dead and unused. Propagation was a problem and only local contacts seemed possible most of the time. I got involved with a few fellow chess players on ten meters. We would sit there all night and various people would drop in and out of our game play. I miss those round-table discussions. It was the essence of amateur radio, IMHO.
Re: Ski By Fire
Oh My, I spent one heck of a lot of time on 10-meters myself.
Loved all the little local contests we had too.
Hare n hound, seek n find, etc. Plus the amazing scavenger hunts, similar to the Geo-Caching of later years.
Radio Shack could still get Allied stuff for us on order, and I had a couple of Allied Catalogs thicker than a phone book or a Grainger Catalog.
The other name I forgot was Micronta. I had a Variac with the Micronta name on it, still packed away around here somewhere. Micronta didn't make a lot of kits, but they did make a few testing tool kits. Not like Heathkit, if they had a circuit board, it was already assembled, just needed screwed in to the case and the switches, meter, and dials wired to it.
I think the large Breadboard I had was sold assembled by Micronta, but had another manufacturers name on some of the main components. I still have a Micronta VOM handy in the closet behind me.
I don't know what the heck Radio Shack did, but every time I went in to buy something they should have had in stock, they said we no longer carry it. I'm talking about simple things they should have had in their assortment boxes of plugs and jacks, etc. I stopped in one day to get a couple PS2 to USB connectors. Guy said they quit carrying those five years ago. But they had a whole drawer of USB to PS2 connectors which already came in nearly every keyboard sold, so everyone has a dozen or so of those lying around.
Right before they moved from the strip mall into a stand alone store, they were able to order me half a dozen Logitech Thumball Meeces, wired, not wireless. I'm on the last one now, but still have one more keyboard they got for me. Now they say they can't get either, and one is their own Gigaware brand item. They can get wireless, but not the wired version.
Loved all the little local contests we had too.
Hare n hound, seek n find, etc. Plus the amazing scavenger hunts, similar to the Geo-Caching of later years.
Radio Shack could still get Allied stuff for us on order, and I had a couple of Allied Catalogs thicker than a phone book or a Grainger Catalog.
The other name I forgot was Micronta. I had a Variac with the Micronta name on it, still packed away around here somewhere. Micronta didn't make a lot of kits, but they did make a few testing tool kits. Not like Heathkit, if they had a circuit board, it was already assembled, just needed screwed in to the case and the switches, meter, and dials wired to it.
I think the large Breadboard I had was sold assembled by Micronta, but had another manufacturers name on some of the main components. I still have a Micronta VOM handy in the closet behind me.
I don't know what the heck Radio Shack did, but every time I went in to buy something they should have had in stock, they said we no longer carry it. I'm talking about simple things they should have had in their assortment boxes of plugs and jacks, etc. I stopped in one day to get a couple PS2 to USB connectors. Guy said they quit carrying those five years ago. But they had a whole drawer of USB to PS2 connectors which already came in nearly every keyboard sold, so everyone has a dozen or so of those lying around.
Right before they moved from the strip mall into a stand alone store, they were able to order me half a dozen Logitech Thumball Meeces, wired, not wireless. I'm on the last one now, but still have one more keyboard they got for me. Now they say they can't get either, and one is their own Gigaware brand item. They can get wireless, but not the wired version.
Re: Ski By Fire
Radio Shack departed from the ways of Allied Electronics the day the two companies went separate ways. Allied focused on components but Radio Shack only sold high profit quick sale items. They stopped catering to the tinkerers out there eons ago. When I run into that situation I generally have success with Google search. If the company Logitech won't sell to me direct, there are a ton of shops on E-Bay that will. The only issue there is that the likes of Radio Shack are convenient and immediate. No shipping costs or wait times are encountered when you buy over the counter.
And, just as a side note you might have noted our website was unavailable for a while this morning. Apparently the server we are on had a problem and I was the first guy to notice it. Like DUH! I was getting a 508 error instead of our site. That's critical and I can't see why the other sites on our server didn't notice it too. Anyway, it all is fixed now but reminded me that I need to update the software on this site. We are 3-4 generations behind and I'm having trouble with certain functions that are fixed in later versions. The last time I tried the update the database crashed. That's why I missed a few. But, it looks like the bugs are too much of a nuisance to ignore much longer. So, if we disappear into the ether, I'll simply install from scratch. We could lose our database that way, but Brainformation will live on in one form or another until our lease expires.
And, just as a side note you might have noted our website was unavailable for a while this morning. Apparently the server we are on had a problem and I was the first guy to notice it. Like DUH! I was getting a 508 error instead of our site. That's critical and I can't see why the other sites on our server didn't notice it too. Anyway, it all is fixed now but reminded me that I need to update the software on this site. We are 3-4 generations behind and I'm having trouble with certain functions that are fixed in later versions. The last time I tried the update the database crashed. That's why I missed a few. But, it looks like the bugs are too much of a nuisance to ignore much longer. So, if we disappear into the ether, I'll simply install from scratch. We could lose our database that way, but Brainformation will live on in one form or another until our lease expires.
Re: Ski By Fire
I had a funeral to go to this morning several miles from here, and didn't get back until 3:30pm so am way behind on getting to today's rounds.
Yeppers, I saw a large local hardware store chain go belly up because they switched from hardware to women's items like cookware and home secondary furnishings and decorations. Central Hardware was the company!
Sorry you had problems, I hope the update went without problems. Oh, I guess it did, I'm here aren't I, hi hi.
Yeppers, I saw a large local hardware store chain go belly up because they switched from hardware to women's items like cookware and home secondary furnishings and decorations. Central Hardware was the company!
Sorry you had problems, I hope the update went without problems. Oh, I guess it did, I'm here aren't I, hi hi.
Re: Ski By Fire
You are here because I have yet to do the update. I didn't even download it yet. It's such a hassle. I have to make image copies of the entire site as well as the database. Then I must delete all but five files and upload the new and improved versions. That's doing it manually. There is an automated method, which is what crashed the database the last attempt at updating. I don't know when I'll actually get around to it. It's not a problem rebuilding the site from scratch if I had to. I just hate losing all the content we have at the moment.
I watched Borders Bookstore go down the drain when they decided to cut out things like technical books and replace them with greeting cards and music CD's. Some corporate genius fresh out of college must have dreamed that one up. Life is tough. Life in the business world is deadly.
I watched Borders Bookstore go down the drain when they decided to cut out things like technical books and replace them with greeting cards and music CD's. Some corporate genius fresh out of college must have dreamed that one up. Life is tough. Life in the business world is deadly.