Fight Back the Phishers

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yogi
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Re: Fight Back the Phishers

Post by yogi » 25 Dec 2018, 10:41

Oh yes, saying we as a country are a republic justifies destroying all the democracy built into. I keep forgetting. Thanks for reminding me.

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Kellemora
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Re: Fight Back the Phishers

Post by Kellemora » 26 Dec 2018, 11:23

The best I can ascertain is: Cities and States are Democracies, but the Country, and some Townships are a Republic.

Township is a confusing word because besides referring to an actual Township, it is sometimes used to denote an organized town. I see this a lot doing genealogy work.

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Re: Fight Back the Phishers

Post by yogi » 26 Dec 2018, 19:46

The brilliancy of our founding fathers was to incorporate BOTH the concept of a democracy and the concept of a republic into our congress. The house of representatives is supposed to operate as close to a democracy as one can find. That is to say, there is representation proportional to the population of each state. The Senate, on the other hand, has equal representation from every state, i.e. two senators and only two. Any legislation coming out of congress must pass both houses of congress (democracy and republic models) before passing it on to the president for his signature. The judicial system, the Supreme Court, fills out the third branch of our federal government. Together, all three branches provide checks and balances to assure that this country is run the way the constitution suggests. At least that is the historical theory of our government.

Every state legislature that I know about is run identically to the federal government. That is to say three branches of state governance uphold each state's individual constitution.

When I comes down to counties. cities, villages, towns and townships, the governing infrastructure often departs from the federal model. Generally there is a head honcho - the mayor - and a city (or whatever municipal unit it may be) council. The council is populated by aldermen that represent people from specific districts within the city. The council enacts laws and ordinances for the mayor to sign.

I'm certain that in your genealogy work you found many inconsistencies. That is due to each locality taking governance into their own hands so to speak. Not too many decades ago there wasn't much centralized governing. The locals took care of matters on their own. When you start looking into European ancestry, it gets worse because their roots go back many centuries when such things as literacy (reading and writing) were not known. So much for record keeping.

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Kellemora
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Re: Fight Back the Phishers

Post by Kellemora » 27 Dec 2018, 10:15

I was raised in a town that was founded and ran for over a hundred years on Home Rule, this means without politicians, but there was an unpaid board of trustees. It went through all the growth stages of becoming a municipality, and finally a 4th Class City. This is when the poly-TICK-ians could get their mitts into it, but it took them several years to overcome the locals. No sooner than it changed from Home Rule to Political Rule, the city went downhill fast. A new breed of poly-TICK-ians forced nearly everyone out of the city who didn't meet with their agenda.

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yogi
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Re: Fight Back the Phishers

Post by yogi » 27 Dec 2018, 12:31

Home Rule sounds more democratic than what a republic should be, but as you point out it can all change quickly. The politicians are limited in number although they can command a lot of force from their followers. The bottom line in every case, however, the that the governance is what the masses want. It may take a long time for the people to overthrow authoritarian dictators, but it gets done eventually. Corruption grows out of complacence. Most people don't give a damn about how their government is run until it hits them personally. Even then a lot of people have to feel harmed before any changes are made. There are more 'people' than politicians. The people always get their way. They just aren't always careful about what they wish for.

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Kellemora
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Re: Fight Back the Phishers

Post by Kellemora » 28 Dec 2018, 11:31

So true Yogi.

My grandfather spent his entire life trying to build up our city enough to get it on the map.
He reached his goal while on his death bed. Never realizing what doors it would open.

Only 1% of the populace are millionaires, yet over 50% of poly-tick-ians have become multi-millionaires, most while in office.

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yogi
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Re: Fight Back the Phishers

Post by yogi » 28 Dec 2018, 13:19

Like corporate CEO's who make millions of dollars, politicians earn every penny they make (steal?). After a while it's not about money anymore. Power is the draw into politics, and to some extent in corporate leadership too. I don't begrudge somebody who is smart enough to become filthy rich and battle the corruption it takes to get there. Truth be told, it's not corruption when you act on that level. It's just the way things get done. The problem we all have with politicians is that they are self-serving instead of keeping the public's interests in mind. I'm all for people of influence becoming rich, but it sure would be nice if they did it legally and ethically.

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Kellemora
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Re: Fight Back the Phishers

Post by Kellemora » 29 Dec 2018, 08:45

In the business world, the owner of a business would never hire a new employee then tell them they can set their own wage, vacation time, benefits, and raises. They would soon be out of business!

The people were too lazy to go vote against the poly-TICK-ians demanding the same for themselves. They can vote themselves a raise, add benefits, etc. any time they choose.

I heard something once, but have never been able to verify it through reputable sources.
For example: The term of a Senator is six years, and a Representative is two years. They can be reelected.
Now let's look at the retirement package, which is full pay for life. We all know that already.
However, here is what I heard regarding Senators, don't know if applies to the House though.
After six years in office, a Senator earned his full retirement package.
But, if he is reelected, when another six years is up, he earns a SECOND full retirement package.
Ditto, if reelected again, at the end of those six years, he earns a THIRD full retirement package.
I've not been able to get this verified, and found nothing regarding Representatives retirement packages in the process of hunting down the info. Even so, I think it would be similar to what the Senators get.

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yogi
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Re: Fight Back the Phishers

Post by yogi » 29 Dec 2018, 10:24

There is a major difference between a corporate CEO and the worker bees. The CEO is responsible for maximizing profits any way s/he sees fit. The employees are there to make it happen. Of course it would be poor business practice to make the benefits packages of the employees open ended. Those labor costs are typically the largest factor reducing profits.

Politicians are more like CEO's than worker bees, although they function as both. The United States government is (in theory) a not for profit operation, which is exactly opposite of corporate businesses. Thus political representatives are not managing/working for profit but instead they are there to serve the best interests of the people they represent. It's an honor system to be sure, but there are also a lot of checks and balances built into the ethics process. As is the case in the corporate world, the people in charge can and do violate the trust put into them.

The board of directors in a corporation determine the incentives provided to their CEO. Thus, in a sense, corporate management determines it's own compensation exactly as does the congress. The rub is that we can always do without the products and services of a specific business, but we can't just up and leave the country in which we live - at least it would not be as simple as boycotting a product. Both the products offered by corporations and the governance offered by our representatives are essential to our daily lives. It's easy to understand how any perceived unfairness would be taken as a personal attack. But I see these leaders as being responsible to millions of affected people. That's certainly worth more than $15/hr in my humble opinion.

As far as the retirement packages for congress go, I can't say what they are. I do know they get reviewed every year and never heard of a cutback. It's easy for you to discover what the separation package is. Just get in touch with Bob Corker or Lemar Alexander. I'm certain they would be happy to explain it all to you. :mrgreen:

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Kellemora
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Re: Fight Back the Phishers

Post by Kellemora » 30 Dec 2018, 12:52

Do you really think congress is looking our for OUR best interests?
Looks to me like they look out for THEIR OWN best interests!

The Poly-TICK-ians are paid right at 200 dollars per hour, based on the number of hours they do work.
I feel that is more than they are worth!

One of our Missouri senators, I think it was Danforth, said once, he received a retirement check for each 6 year term he served. Whether it was the truth or said in jest, he did get one heck of a lot of money each month.

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yogi
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Re: Fight Back the Phishers

Post by yogi » 30 Dec 2018, 17:16

Of course it's impossible to tell what the people in government are thinking or what motivates them. Just because human nature is what it is, there are some ne'er-do-wells sitting in congress purely for their own benefit. I think those people are the exception rather than the rule. Even the compromised members of today's congress feel they are there to serve a higher purpose.

While we have been observing these political representatives all our lives, we (you and I) really don't have a good idea what it takes to enact a law that will affect the entire country. Politics is not a game of chess. It is instead Saturday morning at the local bazaar, or as they call it in Tennessee, Flea Market. A lot of bargaining is going on with the hope that the end result will be acceptable to all the people involved. That bargaining is SOP in the world of politics. We are the peons in this game of governance, but those politicians know that their existence depends on us to keep the votes coming. They have to at least give the appearance of working for our best interests.

$200 an hour is chicken feed for doing the job our congresses do. If you could do something to affect tens of millions of people by the performance of your duty, you would be worth way more than that ... in my humble opinion. I'd be happy to pay that to every soldier in a combat zone too.

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Kellemora
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Re: Fight Back the Phishers

Post by Kellemora » 31 Dec 2018, 11:05

I don't have anyone here in TN who is affiliated with politics, but have a cousin in Illinois who is really deep into keeping abreast of what they are doing.
In one way, he thinks like I do. Why do they waste so much time drafting one new law after another, when what they are passing is already on the books as law? Beginning tomorrow, over 200 new laws come into affect in Illinois. I'm sure the same thing happens in most states. The sad thing is, about 180 of those new laws are already on the books with different wording which means exactly the same thing, and they don't address any true issues that need covered better.

I do realize more agreements are made on the golf course and in bars between poly-TICK-ians than anywhere else. Always to benefit themselves and to heck with the people.

Look at the two who ran as Republicans, and as soon as they were in office, changed parties.
The sad thing is, many get elected simply because the people vote for what they said the day of the election, not what they have actually done over the past 10 or 20 years.
How could a totally unknown person, with false documentation, who violated all of the rules to become president, end up as our president. Then let he and his party run us into the highest debt ever, sell our resources to our enemies, etc. etc. etc. And then one like him, a major criminal, decided to run and came very close to winning.
It would have been the end of the USofA had she been elected.

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yogi
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Re: Fight Back the Phishers

Post by yogi » 31 Dec 2018, 14:57

Hillary represented old school politics, while Trump rode the populist bandwagon. It would have been fine if he won just on those grounds because people are indeed sick of politics as usual. Giving them both credit for being bad actors, it wasn't their political viewpoints that decided the election. If that were true, then Hillary would be president now given that she won the popular vote by several millions of votes.

How did it all happen? I'll be glad to point you in the right direction when the indictments come down. Until then we can only wait and see.

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Kellemora
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Re: Fight Back the Phishers

Post by Kellemora » 01 Jan 2019, 10:06

All I can say is it is a good thing we are a Republic, else four corrupt cities would control the entire nation.

Hillary belongs in PRISON for her evil deeds. Imagine how bad it would be if she did manage to get elected.

Trump is working hard, without pay, and without taking time off, to try and undo all the damage Obama did to our country.

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