Good Vibrations

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yogi
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Good Vibrations

Post by yogi » 09 Nov 2018, 09:47

Not those from the Beachboys, but those in and around our head explain consciousness to certain researchers. I ran across an article that touches on the subject of everything in the universe vibrating, and in some cases synchronously. It's the sync among the vibrations in our head that leads to consciousness. Since everything vibrates in some way, so the author says, everything has a degree of consciousness. The more often these vibrations interact, the larger the scale of consciousness. Thus a rock with only it's specific mineral vibrations is no competition for us humans with a whole bunch of neurons broadcasting and resonating with their own frequencies. It's the resonance that brings on the consciousness.

http://theconversation.com/could-consci ... ate-103070

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Kellemora
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Re: Good Vibrations

Post by Kellemora » 09 Nov 2018, 11:49

Interesting article Yogi!

I was reading once a number of years ago about a guy trying to explain how ESP works, and he used the lightning bugs as an example. The only difference was only one in a million people will be able to tune in on the resonant frequency of another individual. Most often this happens with twins, usually twin girls, and in some cases between a mother and daughter.

If you recall in a previous response I said everything has a frequency, wavelength, or vibration. Even rocks vibrate.
But I don't think they have any level of consciousness.
Plant life perhaps!

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yogi
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Re: Good Vibrations

Post by yogi » 09 Nov 2018, 18:17

I do recall your earlier comments which is why I posted this article. It "resonated" with what you said before. :mrgreen:

I studied astrology and for many years interpreted horoscopes. Nobody really has a good explanation for why it works, when it works, but there seems to be a consensus that vibrations are involved. The psychiatrist Carl Gustav Jung not only studied and used astrology in his work, but he also came up with a theory of synchronicity. Basically the conditions in the heavens resolve into vibrations which in turn synchronize (or resonate) with events and behaviors in peoples lives. I'm not sure how much credibility I put into ol' Jung's theories, but the notion that the cosmos is full of vibrations isn't anything new. The inventors of astrology lived at least 3000 years ago and they were well versed in planetary motion and vibrations from the get go.

Few would dispute that our solar system, indeed our galaxy, is replete with cyclic events. These cycles are vibrations so to speak. It's not a huge stretch of the imagination to say there is a resonance among the various vibrations being radiated constantly. But, does the solar system with its myriad frequencies manifesting constantly have consciousness? If human consciousness is the interaction of cycles within our brain, as the article I cited suggests, then the solar system would just be a scaled up model of what we experience daily. I'm not prepared to say that our solar system has self-awareness, but there is harmony and resonance. And that is what gives the lightning bugs consciousness.

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Kellemora
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Re: Good Vibrations

Post by Kellemora » 10 Nov 2018, 11:20

I don't know if I would go as far as saying a lightning bug has consciousness.
No more so than the old vacuum operated windshield wipers running in sync for short periods of time.
I always hated climbing long hills in a truck with those vacuum windshield wipers, because they would stop when you tromped down on the gas pedal and not start back up again until you crested the hill.
Of course, one could always press in the clutch, let off the gas and let the wipers make a couple swipes then rev back up and let the clutch out.

I never looked into astrology, but did study astronomy back in the days of skewl.

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Re: Good Vibrations

Post by yogi » 10 Nov 2018, 17:59

The answer to the gang of conscious lightning bugs question depends on how you define consciousness. It's pretty tricky and many people have been working on the idea for a long time; thousands of years, I would guess. One alternate explanation I read came from a neurological scientist. He claimed consciousness boils down to a biochemical reaction. It's all pretty interesting to contemplate especially now at the dawn of the artificial intelligence age. Will those future bots have consciousness and be self-aware? Seems odd to think we can create such a mind from mechanical parts and software, but it's going in that direction.

There are a lot of synchronous systems in automobiles. The engine itself is a miracle of synchronization. Some of them are resonant too, e.g. tuned headers :grin:

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Re: Good Vibrations

Post by Kellemora » 11 Nov 2018, 09:38

Raised in the floriculture industry, I do have to admit that I think plants have consciousness.

We even did some experiments in a few of our isolation greenhouses with various types of music and certain noises.
To make sure the results were not associated with the greenhouse itself, we repeated the experiment by changing the sound source. Moving the sounds used in the greenhouse where the plants did best, to the greenhouse where the sounds made the plants do poorly. It made an appreciable difference. In a nutshell, plants subjected to elevator music did better than the control group, and plants subjected to hard rock or heavy noises did the worst.

Wash U did a test of their own using a single frequency tone of a different frequency in each of their testing areas. The tone was barely perceptible to the students, but they too found the lower the frequency, the worst the plants did, and those in the midrange of frequencies used did better, but then above a certain frequency they didn't do so well again.

You can also study the mechanics of plants, which are basically like hydraulic systems. Plants turn their leaves to capture the sun but will angle them depending on the temperature to prevent too much evaporation loss. But this is probably not considered consciousness no more than a bi-metallic strip bending due to temperature.

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Re: Good Vibrations

Post by yogi » 11 Nov 2018, 14:18

There are folks who try to tell us plants have feelings, or what you and I would call consciousness. Most of the testing I read about was done with a galvanometer. The researchers were able to demonstrate that tomatoes, for example, showed a sharp increase in the reading when stabbed with a knife. This might show a type of awareness or consciousness, but It's a long way from feelings. The freaky part of that experiment was that a similar increase in galvanic response was noted after a mere threat of cutting was issued.

Not too long ago I read how trees communicate with each other via their root system. When one tree becomes diseased, similar trees in the neighborhood start producing chemicals to combat it even though they appear to be healthy. I know that disease is transmitted via tree roots, which is how most of the elm trees on my former property died. When my neighbor saw what was happening he hired an arborist to dig a trench around the elm tree in his back yard in order to cut off the transmission of the disease. His tree had some kind of sentimental value and he wanted to preserve it as long as possible.

I've read about the effect of music on plants. The same sources say they can measure reactions in the plants when you yell at them. Their advice is to speak nicely to your plants several times a day. :rolleyes: Like any living thing plants do what they must in order to survive and propagate. The leaves turning to face the sun, Leaf heliotropism, isn't fully understood apparently. This article in Wikipedia is incomprehensible to my uneducated mind, but it does show that somebody put a lot of study into the behavior.

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Re: Good Vibrations

Post by Kellemora » 12 Nov 2018, 09:25

When I was a little tyke, I used to think my grandpa was nuts. With all the work that needed done, he would sometimes sit down on a stool in the middle of the aisle between all the plants and spend sometimes more than an hour studying a group of plants in the bed in front of him.
When he did finally get up, he would start giving orders to the guys who worked the water system to reduce this ingredient and increase another ingredient. He did this without using test equipment. It's like he knew what the bench of plants needed just by staring at them. Dad said he listens to them.
Skipping ahead about ten years, I found my uncle doing the exact same thing.

I should not here that all of our original greenhouses were hydroponic, even though the word was not coined until over 35 years later by Dr. Gerrick. We supplied many of the flowers and plants for the 1904 Worlds Fair in St. Louis, most of which were raised hydroponically. This was quite a feat before plastics were invented, because the nutrients would destroy metal pipes, fittings, and valves in short order. All of our growing benches were concrete with a tar coating on the inside. New pipes were filled with hot tar and drained before being added to replace those that began leaking. And for some things only glass tubing and stopper type glass valves were used. Then over the years after grandpa passed away things began to change drastically. They went back to using soil in almost all the plants, such as bedding plants and the kind sold as decorative to keep in pots. But the cut flowers and rental plants were still raised hydroponically all the way up to the 1970s.

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Re: Good Vibrations

Post by yogi » 12 Nov 2018, 15:32

I had a vegetable garden for a hobby at the first house we owned. It was only a couple hundred square feet at the back of the lot, but I grew a lot of different varieties of veggies. Any seed catalog that had something new was a challenge for me to grow. :mrgreen: It took several years for me to get good at it but I could tell by looking at the plants what they needed. Lack of water was obvious, but I also used different kinds of fertilizers for the various plants. I didn't talk to them, but I could tell by the color of the leaves and the way the plant stood tall or not what was needed. Keeping the pests under control was not as easy but I wasn't too worried about sharing my crop with a few hungry bugs. LOL I never did find a good way to keep the birds out of the strawberries. I ended up covering them with netting, which worked fairly well.

Hrdroponics seems like more trouble than it's worth. I guess if you are a commercial grower it might be worth it. Sometimes I would root plants in water but that didn't seem to work on everything. I kind of gave up on gardening here in MO. The soil is 80% clay and 20% rocks. Some things actually grow in that mix, but all my experience with gardening involves black topsoil. They actually have to import that stuff around here.

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Re: Good Vibrations

Post by Kellemora » 13 Nov 2018, 10:25

You wouldn't believe how many things are raised hydroponically, they just don't admit it very often.

I had great crops back home in St. Louis County, and most of the time I didn't even bother to till for some things, like tomatoes along my fence rows. Just used a bulb planter to drop the tomato plant in the hole and they always did great. Can't say the same thing for down here though, I've not had a good crop of anything here, not even in the wide open, tilled twice and blended in the necessary fertilizers for the crops. Finally gave up.
That being said, I did have a greenhouse, and an area I dug out in the crawl space to make like a basement where I raised plants all winter, and moved them to the greenhouse for the summer. Those were all raised hydroponically for the most part, unless I planned on giving them as gifts, then I used my own blend of loose potting soil.

The birds get our cherries and grapes every year, but they never seemed to bother our strawberries when I raised strawberries that is. Now, everything is overgrown with ivy, weeds, and you name it.

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Re: Good Vibrations

Post by yogi » 13 Nov 2018, 16:56

I don't expect you need to be reminded, but nutrient supplements in the soil is only part of the battle. I found that pH makes a differences as well. I've seen charts that get pretty fine grained about the pH factor and I've always had trouble with it. Not being hydroponic oriented the soil can take a few years to adjust. Then, that too depends on the weather. I guess the nutrients in the soil don't get utilized very well unless the alkaline/acid levels are close to being correct.

I don't see why anyone would hide the fact that their vegetation is hydroponically grown. It's going to be the method of choice when all the soil becomes poisoned or sterile. And, it will be the only choice if we ever conquer space travel.

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Re: Good Vibrations

Post by Kellemora » 14 Nov 2018, 10:45

I think it stems from the old days when if anything organic was in the growing bed or pot it wasn't considered hydroponic.
Our rose grower used corncobs in all of his growing beds so said his was not hydroponics, although it was fed with recirculating nutrients.
Then you have some who use nothing but peat moss and claim they are hydroponically raised.
The way I view it, if there is no soil, whether the growing media is organic or inorganic or none at all such as in the nutrient film techniques, it's all still hydroponics.

Almost all growers start their cuttings in sand, some may have a little peat and perlite mixed in the sand. But don't view this as hydroponics even though there is no soil. Probably because coarse sand beds are usually flood and drain before they are called hydroponic.

Yes pH is very important, and different for every crop too.

I wasn't much of a farmer when it came to crops, flowers or produce.
But when it came to tropical ornamental plants, that's where I shined.
I spent many years developing different ways of raising tropicals hydroponically, but without the work involved there either.
Eventually I hit on the right combinations, and measurement, then experimented with variation of those until I perfected a growing system, which type of system is known as hydroculture.

Much of my time was spent developing the ideal growing media. Having it made was a big problem, even though there was a similar product used in construction so part of the facilities I needed did exist, but not with the double kilns necessary to produce my ideal product.
It was a large investment to get one of the companies to build a second kiln, one at the beginning, and one near the middle of a 150 foot long turnpipe kiln. But once they did and saw what they could do with it, our investment was recouped fast.
After dealing with a nut of a patent examiner, I finally managed to get a patent on my growing media.
Also got a patent on my light and nutrient meter, which contained no moving parts to clog or stick.
And a patent on the growing container itself.

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yogi
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Re: Good Vibrations

Post by yogi » 14 Nov 2018, 11:49

Wikipedia wrote:Hydroponics is a subset of hydroculture, which is a method of growing plants without soil by using mineral nutrient solutions in a water solvent. Terrestrial plants may be grown with only their roots exposed to the mineral solution, or the roots may be supported by an inert medium, such as perlite or gravel.
To be sure I'm not familiar with the technique at all, but it sure looks like it's a matter of semantics to use hydroponics for growing things. Your list of patents sounds impressive. Hopefully you are still receiving royalties for your work.

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Re: Good Vibrations

Post by Kellemora » 15 Nov 2018, 11:14

Patents are only good for 17 years, only 12 years on design patents.
I let mine go public after about 6 years, because patents are a totally useless waste of money, unless you are rich to start with.
I don't agree with Wikipedia's definition. Hydroponics preceded the more specialized Hydroculture by several years.
The term Nutriculture actually preceded the term Hydroponics, but media popularity of the word Hydroponics made it the mainstay overarching term in the industry.
Hydroculture is normally only used when referring to planting systems for tropical plants in an expanded slate or clay type aggregate. I've never heard it used when referring to large planting systems for raising vegetables or produce.

I wrote an article back around 1966 about the History of Hydroponics. It's an interesting read if you are ever so inclined.
http://stonebrokemanor.classichauslimit ... thydr.html

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Re: Good Vibrations

Post by yogi » 15 Nov 2018, 13:28

I read a couple paragraphs of your article and will come back to it soon. Your warning about the length of the article should be taken seriously. LOL

WIkipedia is a source of information authored by the general public. You personally can go into their hrdroponics article and update it where you see errors or missing information. They generally require citations for your sources, something I didn't see in your article, but many entries are made without said verification. I'm no authority on any of this, but I do find it all very interesting.

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Re: Good Vibrations

Post by Kellemora » 16 Nov 2018, 10:51

Back when I wrote it, a complete detailed source listing was at the back of the book.
Everything was lost in the two floods at my home, and some kind soul sent me copies of the chapters he copied for himself.
This chapter went semi-viral for a short time, so I put it back on-line again when I redid my website.
It's not hard to verify the data I used in the book and especially in this chapter.
I probably should do that again and include sources, as it would save me getting an e-mail from time to time about it.

I tried making some corrections on Wikipedia about a few things mentioned about my home town they had drastically wrong. After about fifteen back and forth nonsense forms they wanted, I finally gave up.

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Re: Good Vibrations

Post by yogi » 17 Nov 2018, 08:47

I never tried to contribute to Wikipedia, but I know people who do it all the time. Some of the material published there is highly questionable even when sources are included. I guess that's the nature of a public knowledge base. They do try to keep things legitimate and credible, which could explain why they were vetting your credentials. It's a shame you were bullied by the system because I think you have some valuable information that other people would benefit from reading.

It's unfortunate that you lost so much to the flooding. Those experiences are good examples of why "Cloud Storage" would be a good idea. I was just over to a site called Smashwords and was amazed at the number of indie publishers over there. I don't know about the quality of the works, but all the books on Smashwords seem to be safe from natural disasters. Plus, the authors are getting paid for anything they sell. I'm certain you have your own resources.

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Re: Good Vibrations

Post by Kellemora » 17 Nov 2018, 13:03

FWIW: At the time of the floods, about the only thing we had for backups was 5-1/4 floppies.
And we were not yet converting our paper documents to digital, because they had to be hand entered by retyping the documents.
If you know where I-270 and Olive Blvd. is, you know it is well above any flood plain.
However, the sewer systems backed up from the floods, and from illegal connections by commercial enterprises near us.
While the huge office buildings to the right of our subdivision entry street were under construction, they dumped thousands of gallons of storm water into the sanitary sewer system, and to compound the issue, they did not install the tumbling basin which was a requirement they failed to follow, until after they were caught and the damage was done to all the homes on our street and several below us who got flooded worse than we did.
Even though we had sewer backup insurance, the way the insurance companies work, it does not mean what we think it means. It only means if OUR water supply is running into a clogged sewer, only then will they cover the non-existent damage from such an incident. Water coming from off our property onto our property through the sewer system is not considered a covered sewer backup.
And yes we fought them in court over this, but didn't win. Didn't win when the subdivision sued the bank builders, nor when they sued the construction company after the next flood. Even after both were found guilty and fined heavily by the city. Only the poly-TICK-ians got to put money into their pockets.

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Re: Good Vibrations

Post by yogi » 18 Nov 2018, 10:14

Home insurance is nice to have but a lot of people don't read the fine print in their policies. I don't blame them. It's all legalese designed to protect the issuer from any losses. They would not be able to stay in business if they were losing money, so that makes sense. The best way to approach buying insurance is to understand that they are covering the most unlikely thing to happen. In our last home we had two sump pumps to keep the ground water out of the basement, for example. If the pumps failed we were covered by our home owner insurance. If the the ground water got excessive, which was very possible because we lived close to a stream, that was not covered. Water damage from sources off our property could be covered separately by purchasing flood insurance. I'm thinking the government is the only place you can get that kind of thing.

It's hard to believe that the construction company was not liable for damages caused by their illegal activity. I'm no lawyer but I've heard of situations where things happened just as you described, but then the injured parties sued the individual owners/operators of the company -- for making bad decisions or something. LOL Usually the individual manager doesn't have resources to pay for the damages so that it doesn't pay to go after them. In some cases they have personal insurance of their own to cover such situations, in which case it would be worth pursuing.

I recall those days of 5.25" floppies. Hard to believe there was no cloud computing back then. Actually there was, but it was called main frames at the time. All of them were local to the enterprise. It's only recently that they have been connected to the Internet for general consumption. Either way, it's unfortunate that you had to experience those losses.

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Re: Good Vibrations

Post by Kellemora » 18 Nov 2018, 11:12

When they were building a bank uphill from our house, almost in my front yard, the plumbing contractor installed a wrong type of Y-connector improperly. Hard to explain in text, but the banks waste line was supposed to feed in below where they replaced the elbow with the Y-connector. Instead the way they connected the pipes, the waste from the bank fed into our streets waste line which blocked the flow to the mainline. We got about four feet of raw sewage in our basement. The lawsuit against the bank builders and plumbers went on for well over six years and finally died by wearing us down. Even so, the plumbing company did get a heavy fine from the city, but that was about it.

When they built the medical building to the west of the bank building, and higher up the hill, they were supposed to install a tumbling basin to slow down the rapid fall of sewage from the building. They didn't do this. What they did do was replace the now correct Y-connector with an X-connector, their input leg was directly across from our output leg.
The medical building was still under construction, and although it did have a roof, it had not exterior walls yet. A torrential downpour blowing into the building allowed storm water to enter the sanitary sewer system. It picked up speed as it came down the hill, and in my house, we ended up with six feet of water in our finished basement, and not only that, water was coming out of our drains with such force, even the tub in the upstairs bathroom had water shooting out of the drain and hitting the ceiling. This incident was classified as an Act of God so the insurance company and builder got off Scott free.

We could not get flood insurance being so high above the flood plain, which is why we got sewer backup insurance. Nowhere in the fine print did it say the clog MUST be on our own property, and the water must be from our own source of water supply. We did however, after the second flood, get them to install a new lateral line, because our pipe got sucked shut like a soda straw when they opened the mainline sewer which was also damaged. They also installed a one way section in the sewer line, which was probably just a single flapper inside a box over our outlet side. I didn't see it in person to be able to examine it. It apparently worked because my neighbor uphill from me to the east got water in his basement through the sewer due to a normal clog, but I didn't get any water at all and should have where the clog was.

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