Not An Inch to Spare

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yogi
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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by yogi » 30 Oct 2019, 14:01

The name "City of New Orleans" rings a bell but I don't recall why. I know it's the name of a train but I never took a trip on one other than the Amtrack commuter line. I take that back. My very first job at the envelope company included a trip on a steam powered locomotive train. The president of the company owned a car and belonged to a model railroad club. When he first told me about the club I was thinking table top models, but this was full scale. We departed Burlington Iowa and ended up somewhere in Wisconsin near the Mississippi; I think it was Eau Claire. We had lunch on an island in the middle of the river and then headed back to Chicago area. It was late September I believe which was a perfect time to be traveling along the river. Our car was right behind the steam engine going up but was last in line coming home. Being last in line meant we didn't get connected to the electric or the heating. It was a mighty dark and cool trip home is all I remember. :mrgreen:

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Kellemora
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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by Kellemora » 31 Oct 2019, 10:42

I know Amtrak was formed in 1971, taking over the City of New Orleans train.
In 1981 they restored and retained the car as an added feature ride.
I believe it was around 1972 when we took the train ride.
At that time it was still Illinois Central, or claimed to be. Amtrak had not taken over that set of tracks yet.
But when they did, they added superliner cars, and I think they built a new City of New Orleans car, possibly more identical ones, who knows anymore.

We have a couple of old steam locomotives we can ride here, been on them a few times since moving south.

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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by yogi » 31 Oct 2019, 12:29

The model railroad club was an amazing organization. On the way up to Wisconsin they stopped the train at some predetermined isolated spots. Everybody with a camera got off and they backed the steamer up about a mile down the track. Then they poured on the coal and came roaring past the club members with cameras in the most glorious style I've ever seen for a train. A few, very few, members dressed in those striped overalls and got some time up in the engineer's compartment. I think the price they payed for that privilege was that they had to stoke the firebox under the boiler. That was cool in itself, hot actually, but the real reward for these brave souls was to get their faces covered with soot from the engine.

One interesting observation I made was the comfort difference between the first car in back of the engine and the last car. When I rode in the first car it was a fairly smooth ride. Coming home in the last car we experienced a lot of jerking in sync with the iron horse's pistons. It was the club's car and there was no option to move into any of the others. LOL

My mom's sister lived in a town about 15 miles down the track from our house; that track was at least a mile away so that it was a long walk to the station. My earliest memories are of making that trip on a train powered by a steam locomotive. They changed it to diesel about the time I was in first or second grade. I don't recall being jerked around a lot, but perhaps I was. Kids don't notice those kind of things.

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Kellemora
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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by Kellemora » 01 Nov 2019, 11:23

If you are in the very last few cars on a train, you can get whiplash when they start up from a stop, hi hi.
Not so much anymore with the spring loaded and buffered couplers.

Diesel trains use the diesel engines to generate electric, they are actually electric trains.
It's the most efficient way for them to run from what I understand.

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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by yogi » 01 Nov 2019, 12:31

I never thought about it, but I assume you are correct. Diesel electric is what it's all about in railroading these days. It's amazing that trains work at all, but I guess the physics of it is in their favor. My experience with the model railroad club was an exception. They went out of their way to not be comfortable. LOL

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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by Kellemora » 02 Nov 2019, 11:24

I've had the privilege of riding in an old Pullman Luxury Car from Kirkwood to Denver in my early 20's.
The trip back home was in a normal passenger coach, and believe me, it was like taking a Greyhound Bus, hi hi.
On another trip to Denver I took the Silver Eagle Train, it was comfortable, large cloth seats, and a smooth ride.
Even so, it was still nothing at all like the quality ride in that old Pullman, and the Pullman was 100% plush throughout.

Jumping to airplanes.
My first trip to Germany was when I was probably around 7 or 8 years old. Although I was young, I remember the big seats, big enough for me to sit next to mom and dad in their own seat. Naturally they were both thinner and was small.
But on our second trip over when I was around 12 years old, the seats were narrow, the aisles were narrow, about like they are today.
Dad had a couple of pictures from somewhere he went by plane, and it had two aisles front to back.
Seems like there were two seats at the windows, and three, maybe four seats in the middle row.
I have no idea what year it was, but I would guess it was probably after I was born.
Must have been a huge plane to have that much room inside the passenger area.

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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by yogi » 02 Nov 2019, 11:59

I don't recall the details but there were airplanes with an upper and lower level. They had the same 7 across arrangement you describe and carried a lot of passengers for it's day. I'm thinking over 200 but I don't recall. For some reason they went out of style; probably because they were too costly to operate and needed a lot of runway. The SST was like that too. You could get to Europe in half the time but at twice the price. I read somewhere that they are trying to bring back the Concord with new technology that doesn't create sonic booms.

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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by Kellemora » 03 Nov 2019, 11:14

While my late sister was an airline stewardess, she got to work in an SST twice. Said it was awesome.
New plane designs don't create a sonic boom for some reason.

Some of those planes today have such small wings, they could never glide after engine failures.
So, the only think keeping them up there is the power of the engines themselves giving them lift.
Those wings sure aren't doing it, hi hi.

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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by yogi » 03 Nov 2019, 13:13

I don't know nothing about aerodynamics; I do know that aeroplanes have not mastered anti-gravity yet. There is lift and it doesn't matter how many horses you have in the turbine. Think smart missiles. They not only have lift but also steering capability. None have much surface area on their fins, yet they can get within inches of their target.

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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by Kellemora » 04 Nov 2019, 11:45

The missiles can only steer a little bit. If their trajectory is too far off, they don't have enough steering capability to get back on course.
When I was taking flying lessons, I always preferred using the Colt, because that dang Tri-Pacer dropped like a rock. If you did have to do an engine off emergency landing, you would do well in the Colt, because it had a smooth glide, but that Tri-Pacer you had to nose-in to build up enough speed for it to glide at all, and speed is not really what you want in an emergency landing. I could slow the Colt all the way down to around 35 mph without it stalling, but the Tri-Pacer would stall if you dropped below about 55 mph. And they had BIG WINGS compared to jets.

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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by yogi » 04 Nov 2019, 11:58

You have the experience that I'm lacking. All I know is that should a plane not have enough lift, it's not flying. Emergency situations are something else, but I'm sure there are minimum standards for that too.

The military has missiles that can strike the front door of a targeted building. I've seen the videos showing it. I'm certain it's not all ballistics in those cases.

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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by Kellemora » 05 Nov 2019, 16:06

Missiles do have homing devices on them, which is how they can hit a plane that is trying to outmaneuver the rocket.
Even so, some planes manage to escape and the rocket shoots past them.
Never saw one that turned around and came back after the planes though.
They probably ran out of propulsion and just dropped down to earth and blew up something down there.

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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by yogi » 05 Nov 2019, 18:41

I think you might be right. I never heard of a missile making a U-turn, and it is indeed likely due to the limited supply of fuel. I think they are programmed to self destruct if they miss the target. They don't want to go blowing up any friendly people.

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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by Kellemora » 06 Nov 2019, 12:33

When I was in the service, the rockets, not the bazooka's, had several settings that had to be set before being fired.
Like you said, they self-destruct, but sometimes this is on purpose.
For example: You calculate the distance from the launcher to the plane you want to shoot down.
Then you set the timer so that the rocket will explode when it reaches the plane, whether it hits the plane or not.
Like a Depth Charge only in the air, hi hi.
I was not in the branch that handled the rockets of course, but we could see them using them.
The only thing I was trained for, besides being a PACV pilot, was how to use a pistol, rifle, and a bazooka. We were never trained on hand-grenades at all, nor did we have any. Each of us had a pistol and a rifle, and each PACV had two bazooka's. No ship mounted artillery of any kind, only some automated flare guns which were permanently mounted but locked so they could never fire automatically anyhow. As an aside, my rifle was in a storage locker my entire time at SDS.

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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by yogi » 06 Nov 2019, 13:05

Like the rest of the technology, military technology has grown by leaps and bounds. This applies to weapons of mass destruction as well as the assault rifles. Industry often is the benefactor of those military technology advances so that you can be assured robotics and artificial intelligence are already being used to search out and destroy enemies. There are smart missiles, but frequently humans can outsmart them. I'm not sure intelligent weapons will we easily fooled or exploited. It's these kind of weapons that may make the nuclear genre obsolete.

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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by Kellemora » 07 Nov 2019, 12:15

Drone style missiles that can track down someone or something and blow them or it to smithereens.
I wouldn't doubt the government has some of these almost as small as a mosquito, hi hi.

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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by yogi » 07 Nov 2019, 16:05

I've seen pictures of the ones about the size of a dragon fly. They mosquito class ones are probably classified. Talk about being a fly on the wall. LOL

If I recall correctly the smart missiles I've read about were fired from a naval vessel.

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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by Kellemora » 08 Nov 2019, 10:51

Since I've been on Navy ships when they were firing at stuff.
I learned one heck of a lot about them, but not as much as I should have for sure.
Just because the hit the FIRE button, after getting all the coordinates right, there could be a long delay before that gun fires. The trigger is linked to the pitch and yawl of the ship, so it doesn't fire until the ship itself is at perfect zero in all directions. If it worked any other way, no matter how you set the coordinates for the shot, they wouldn't be accurate.
Early ships used plumb bobs, so once the trigger was set, it didn't fire until the plumb bob was over the tiny sensor, as delicate as a pin head, supposedly.
I assume the aimed rockets shot from submarines don't matter too much since they will self-correct once airborne.

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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by yogi » 08 Nov 2019, 12:21

I don't see how anything other than a depth charge fired from a ship would be accurate. Then again, the military has some pretty smart people using very sophisticated equipment. With the introduction of smart missiles the need for a stable launch isn't as critical. The dumb missiles still rely on ballistics.

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Re: Not An Inch to Spare

Post by Kellemora » 09 Nov 2019, 11:34

Maybe I've been watching too many things on TV that show a near miss by a missile still taking out the target due to shrapnel and concussive effects on the object, like a plane or another inbound missile.

I think what kills me the most about the cop shows is how the LEAD bullet SPARKS when it hits a wooden door, hi hi.
Or how much smoke peels off the back tires of a front wheel drive car.
Or the tire squealing sounds when they are on gravel or a dirt road pulling out, hi hi.
Debi gets pissed off at me for making my comments about all the mistakes they are making on the shows she's trying to watch. I sit in the TV room and work on a jigsaw puzzle after dinner, but actually don't pay that much attention to what is on the TV. I do look up at the TV for action scenes though.
I know almost all of it is done in front of a blue or green screen, but even so, if that really happened, they wouldn't have walked away from such a blast or fireball, hi hi.

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