Juno reached Jupiter!

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Kellemora
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Kellemora » 24 Jul 2016, 10:42

Plastics have been around long enough that most of the common plastics patents have long since expired.

One of my patents was on the output of a polysulfone plastic. I made it do next to the impossible by tying up an extrusion machine for many more hours than it normally takes to make a similar item, but without the properties I needed.

At the time I made my light/nutrient meter, only red line glass was suitable for such purpose. Trouble was, red line glass cost more by itself than I was selling my entire system for, so I had to come up with an alternative.
It took many months, and I tried several types of plastics before I found one which might work, if only I could cycle a machine enough times to get it to work. Most extrusion machines do just that, they do not have the capability of cycling the same piece of material over and over again. This was something else that cost a lot to have machines rededicated to do what I needed them to do, and it was only an expensive experiment when I started, which may not have worked. But I had faith.
Then after many trials and errors I finally had the base product I needed, but it still needed a lot of other work done to it. The tips machined, and the both ends glazed.
When all was said and done, the company who built and modified the machines to do what I needed, patented the manufacturing process, and I patented the device made for my usage. They of course went on to manufacture products for uses other than my use, and in a design not like my own, so we both came out ahead on the deal, and it saved me a lot of bucks.
They sell sensors for all kinds of machines, and although they thought I was crazy for trying to do something considered impossible with plastics at the time, they guy listened to my idea, and after studying my crude methods, decided it had a chance of working. Good thing, because I could have never made it past that point on my own. Now he uses the process to make a component for the sensors they make, thus saving themselves a lot of money for red line glass too.

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Icey
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Icey » 24 Jul 2016, 19:47

:clap:

Oh that's wonderful Gary! You're very clever when it comes to making stuff - truly. I've never spoken to anyone who's capable of producing so many things and finding ways to use them, as yourself.

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Kellemora
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Kellemora » 25 Jul 2016, 12:31

Awe Shucks Icey, necessity is the mother of invention, along with being too poor to pay researchers to come up with something for me.
Sometimes not knowing how things should be or can be made, is what led to some of my breakthroughs.
When chemists, engineers, and those who have been in an industry their whole lives say it cannot be done, then come I, and prove it can be. You just have to use or do things different than the only way they know to do it.

You know I've sold a product now for like 25 years, which no chemists have been able to duplicate. Some tried and failed.
It works because I did it using common sense instead of fancy well known formulas to produce something.
Mostly it was by figuring out what caused the problem using the tried and true way, and eliminate that part of the equation causing the problems. Not knowing enough about chemistry to do it the right way, I simply did it my way, and it worked.
Any chemist will say, you can't do that, it won't work. Well, scientists also say, by what they know, a humming bird can't fly either. Yet we know they fly and love to watch them come to our feeders.

But in all honesty, most of the things I made and sold, were done using the same consumable items as the big fancy machines, only without the machinery required. There is always another cheaper way of doing something, and a lot of times, it only has to do with looking at how the big fancy machine works, and boiling it down to what it really does.

You are probably not old enough to remember ThermoFax, or Heyer Hectograph, but may remember A.B. Dick Duplicators.

When I was in skewl, almost all of our tests were copied using Hectograph machines, and had that distinctive Hectograph smell. Of which there were two types. A soft gel type and a harder gel covered paper type which could work on a rotary machine. Both machines were expensive.
The soft gel type fell by the wayside as the price of the rotary dropped, but the replacement soft gel formula was plentiful and cheap. I found a way to use it without the machine designed for its use. And thus could sell a complete Hectograph printing system for under 15 bucks, not the 300 to 400 dollars the machine version fetched. Perfect for home and small business users who wanted to look bigger than they really were. This is what led to my making all the other cheap under 20 dollar machines in my line-up of products.

I had to keep the price cheaper than what someone looking at how my stuff worked, or they would just make their own just as easily. Most people don't bother making their own things though, which is evident by the number of products we see on the store shelves. Often there is almost no difference between the fifteen or twenty name brand products, and if you went to a different store, such as a hardware store, you could by the same product in a gallon size for the same price as an 8 or 12 ounce bottle at the grocery or department store.

Heck, I used to take two super cheap ingredients (under a buck for both ingredients) and process them into a gallon container. The ingredients would make four gallons. The going price for a one gallon container was anywhere from 30 to 50 bucks, but I sold mine for an even 20 bucks, so our sales were great. The container itself cost more than what was in it.
Product cost was like 22 cents per gallon, container 78 cents, lid 19 cents, label 6 cents, labor a half hour to make and package 16 gallons. I made mine a tad stronger than what you buy off the store shelves, so it worked better.
So many things you buy, so they appear cheaper on the store shelves than their competitors, are diluted, sometimes too much so they no longer work, but people buy because of the brand name on the bottle, even if there is no difference to the product itself.
I've gone through the bleach dissertation a few times on here. So many people get ripped off big time and don't even realize it.

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Icey
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Icey » 25 Jul 2016, 15:24

Sorry - I don't recall any of the above duplicators. The nearest I can come to one's a photocopier, and the first one I had a go on was a Xerox.

You talked about bleach once before Gary, but I have to say that I DO use named brands myself. I'm not saying that others don't work, but I buy the odd bottle of Domestos now and again. I suppose I could go out and buy hydrogen peroxide and a couple of other ingredients and make my own, but it's too fiddly when you're busy. Far easier to give a squirt of ready-made bleach from a bottle, although I use several organic cleaners, lemon juice, vinegar and so on, which often do a really good job and smell better. However, I always think that bleach kills most germs, so like to wipe over toilets with it.

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Kellemora
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Kellemora » 26 Jul 2016, 11:12

Household bleach is Sodium Hypochlorite, and is a great disinfectant.

You can now get bleach in 8% solution, while 6% is the normal concentration. I don't know if it is true or not, but I've heard they changed the way the percentage is calculated and 8% is still the old 6%. I don't think this is true though. Although I have noticed a certain phrase which reads differently on some 8% bottles vs the 6% bottles.
The 8% often say, 8% by weight, while the 6% say 6% by volume.
I often wonder why they classify the LYE used in bleach to hold the chlorine as an Inert Ingredient?

When bleach is on sale, check the label for the percentage. Even the name brands will offer the same looking bottles and sizes at a sale price, but the label shows it is diluted if you read the ingredient concentration. Often it is reduced to 3% concentration. If you do the math, it is still cheaper to buy the 6% at full-price.

The other caveat is: If no concentration is shown on the label, then the concentration is LESS THAN 1.15% and could be as low as only .75%.

Let's assume for simplicity that the concentration of unmarked bottles is 1%
If a normal bottle of bleach at 6% sells for 3 dollars. And the unmarked stuff is only 1 dollar.
What are you really paying?
You end up paying 6 dollars to get 3 dollars worth of bleach. In other words, you are paying double the price.

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Icey
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Icey » 26 Jul 2016, 16:22

Oh I understand what you mean Gary - I just haven't got the time to start totting up this and that, or comparing ingredients when I go shopping. A lot of things we have delivered to us, but obviously there're times when I run out of something or want something extra, and because the stores aren't next door to me, sort of thing, I like to go and grab what I want and then get back home again asap. Also, if other folk go for me, I just write a list of what's required and trust they'll bring the right ones in.

I still see what you're saying though, but you can use hydrogen peroxide along with vinegar, as an example of a home-made disinfectant, which's almost akin to bleach made with sodium hypochlorite.

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Kellemora
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Kellemora » 27 Jul 2016, 11:25

I think we use more hydrogen peroxide than bleach in our house, especially in the laundry.

For cleaning, I normally use clear ammonia, a dilute muriatic acid (in lieu of vinegar), or a base like diluted sodium hydroxide (lye). Depends what I'm trying to clean and whether an acid or a base will clean it the easiest and fastest without hurting the item being cleaned.

Now, since I don't do much cleaning myself, I let the frau or housekeeper use whatever they want. The housekeeper likes all this disposable stuff, like wet mop pads and the like. Goes through a lot of them, so it gets expensive. Me, I would use a liquid cleaner and mop head until it falls off the mop, hi hi...

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Icey
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Icey » 27 Jul 2016, 16:10

Ha ha ha!! I like your way of thinking, but it's typically male if you don't mind me saying. Us ladies prefer something that's quick and easy, but I grant you that all these cleaning products can get expensive on top of your usual household shops. Still, I pass the receipts and whatever onto my OH, and then retreat while he examines what's been purchased and probably turns beetroot red! : )

I have to say that I agree with you about using a liquid cleaner and a mop though. If I make a spill on the kitchen floor, out comes the mop and bucket, but the trouble is, I can't resist putting an array of cleaning products into the water. I know which ones don't cause harmful fumes, but I like making these mixtures up - 4 squirts of this, 2 of that - when just one'd probably be adequate!????

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Kellemora
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Kellemora » 28 Jul 2016, 12:12

Don't know if it just dumb luck, or the type of ammonia I buy. It has little to no odor even in a closed room. We have dogs so I have to be super careful around them, and the birds too, because ammonia can destroy a dogs nose fast. However, it is rare I need to use ammonia for big jobs, like ceiling and wall cleaning and when I do, no animals are in the area or next to the area I'm working in.
Most window cleaning products have ammonia in them, and usually have a stronger smell than the ammonia I use.
Clear, non-sudsing type. Hard to find the non-sudsing type days. I hate the sudsing type because you end up with a bucket of foam from wringing the mops out.

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Icey
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Icey » 28 Jul 2016, 15:05

LOl - I know what you mean Gary, but some super-dupers're out now. I don't know if you can get Flash cleaners over there? Their concentrated floor cleaner comes out of the bottle in measured doses so that you don't use too much at once, and it doesn't have any surfactants in it which cause the foaming. I think Proctor & Gamble make it, and their headquarters're in the US, so I'm sure you can get it, even if goes by another name.

I don't like to use too much stuff which contains ammonia. Ecosense and Windex products don't contain it. Mind you, lemon juice sprayed from a bottle makes windows shine without the need of chemicals.

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Kellemora
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Kellemora » 29 Jul 2016, 11:33

I remember many eons ago when my mom bought an off the shelf floor cleaner rather than mixing her own like she always did.
There was nothing on the label to cause her concern, and it was a name brand top selling product.
She regularly used a wax stripper, then cleaned the floor, and rewaxed. Sometimes she used an all-in-one product.
It literally melted the surface of her kitchen floor!
She called the company and they claimed it was impossible. But they would refund the purchase price of the product.
She wouldn't have that. She went to the store and bought another bottle, and took the bottle she used on her floor along with the new unopened bottle to a testing lab in Kirkwood. The open bottle, the one she used, only had one ingredient in it, and that ingredient would melt her floor with ease. The unopened bottle was the formula they expected to find.
Next came a lawyer. How could she prove she didn't put something else in the bottle herself.
She lucked out, the chemical in the bottle was only made by one company, not sold to the public, and was identical to the product used in the companies normal formula.
Mom wound up with a whole new kitchen floor, and a refund for her lab tests and lawyers fees, she never had to go to court over it.

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Icey
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Icey » 29 Jul 2016, 16:32

Oh my goodness! So in your mother's case, it was very worth it to pursue the matter! She deserved her new floor. Brilliant news for her. : )

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Kellemora
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Kellemora » 30 Jul 2016, 12:09

Yes it was! And the company who did the installation did a marvelous job.

I have a deal with a local grocer who orders my cans of soda on a standing monthly order.
The soda company themselves even sweetened the deal a little better for me, if I took shorts.
At first I thought this would mean each case would weigh less, meaning one can didn't fill.
So I was surprised to find it was normally only one empty can per each nine cases.
Only once in over a year of getting a monthly shipment did I find two empty cans, or a flat can.

They automatically reject any case with a leaking can, or if it the measured batch comes up below what they deem as one short per weigh tray. But they have outlets who request and where they deliver shorts, such as discount stores and the like.
By knowing taking shorts, I save 25 cents a carton. That's over two dollars off per nine cartons. But have no recourse to return empty unopened cans for credit, which is no biggie, I still recycle, hi hi...
I figure I'm saving 12 cents per can of soda buying this bulk way, instead of off the store shelves, and finding only one short per nine cases was awesome. In my more than a dozen years down here, the soda I buy has only gone from 21 cents per can buying retail, to 27 cents per can buying in bulk, when it could be much higher.
Yeah, I drink too much soda, but I also share, hi hi...

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Icey
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Icey » 30 Jul 2016, 16:21

Well being as though you drink a lot of it, I suppose it's only sensible to get them at the best price that you can.

I'd never heard of "shorts" before Gary - or rather, not in that context - so it was interesting to learn what happens to the "rejects", which're obviously still quite drinkable, but just a little short on content, maybe (no pun intended!).

However, I have to reserve a wry smile at some of your incredible money-saving ideas, because I know a few people on this side of the pond who'd almost want to form a club with you! It truly CAN become addictive, thinking up ways of saving a few pence here and there, but which becomes a delight when they work out how much they've saved over a certain time! I know I couldn't do that, although I don't like to waste stuff, and I don't buy for the sake of it, but when it comes to food, I don't believe that cheaper's always better; in fact, the exact opposite. I don't mind paying over the odds for it if I know it's healthy/comes from a good source/ doesn't have lots of chemicals in or on it, etc.

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Kellemora
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Kellemora » 31 Jul 2016, 12:45

Back home, a large bottling company, VESS, who canned all kinds of soda, and under various names, had a weekend sale we rarely missed. Back then soda came in 24 can flats, and if a flat did not have the right weight, they stacked them inside the loading dock based on how short they weighed. Flats which weighed 24 ounces less than they should sold for a buck, which made the price only 4 cents per can. Flats only weighing 12 ounces less were usually sent to discount stores, even back then.
They also had flats which were 36 ounces short in another pile, but someone usually beat us to all of those, they were still 90 cents though so the dollar flats were the best deal all around.
Almost forgot, they also had mixed cases, not short on weight, for only 75 cents. I usually grabbed one or two of those while there stocking up on what I did drink.
In the opposite direction, and to the west, we had Stoecker Soda Water company, who made Double Cola, but it only came in glass bottles. They had a good deal buying direct, but not as good a deal as Vess offered. Then we had the glass bottles to deal with, and return to the local grocery stores.
The good ole days eh!

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Icey
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Icey » 31 Jul 2016, 15:44

Well it sounds it, Gary! For anyone who drank a lot of cola or whatever, that must've saved them quite a bit of cash.

I hardly touch fizzy drinks these days, unless they have a natural sparkle in them like some glorious elderflower ones I came across. They're made from pressed elderflowers, sugar and natural spring water - no preservatives or anything added, but once a bottle's opened, the contents have to be drunk within 3 days. Each bottle's expensive - over $2. 65 for 70cls. I wrote to the company though and told them how delicious they were, and back came a thank you note, plus 5 vouchers worth approx. $1. 32 to be used against the next few purchases. : )

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Kellemora
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Kellemora » 01 Aug 2016, 12:11

They used to call me the Pepsi Kid, because there was never a time I didn't have a Pepsi in my hand. It was like a permanent appendage. I belonged to almost all of the promotional activities offered by Pepsi, which in turn got me tons of coupons over the years.
Once I could no longer drink sugared soda, I changed to PepsiONE. I never could stand Diet Drinks of any kind, most of them taste horrible, and some even made me sick. I learned it was the Aspartame used in diet drinks and foods which made them so awful tasting to me.
The problems I had obtaining PepsiONE forced me to begin looking at other drinks. I found Diet Coke Yellow Cap which was OK, if you can stand the medicinal taste of Coke. But finding stores who stocked either was a nightmare. A few stores would stock only three cartons when they had a buy four sale, which meant you couldn't get them on sale.
I normally didn't pay much attention to soft drinks that said Diet on them, because they all had deadly Aspartame in them.
Bumped into a distant neighbor at the grocery store who I knew would never buy anything with Aspartame in it, and he had several cartons of Diet RC in his cart. I ribbed him about it, and he said it doesn't have Aspartame, I checked and it used Sucralose like PepsiONE or Yellow Cap Coke. So I tried a carton myself. Loved the flavor and the price.
So, ever since, the Pepsi Kid is now the RC Grandpa, hi hi...
And the store closest to me (they moved closer to me than they used to be), now has me on a monthly standing order. They keep it in back in their storage area so nobody cobs any of my cartons, hi hi...
Because we recycle, and aluminum can prices here are higher than most other states, since Alcoa is only a few miles away, my cost for soda is almost as cheap as tap water, which by the way I never drink, I know what's in it, hi hi...

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Icey
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Icey » 01 Aug 2016, 16:11

Well of course, as I've said before, I agree with you wholeheartedly about aspartame.

However, if you can bring yourself to read paragraphs 3 & 4 of the following article, Sucrolose's just as hideous.

https://www.downtoearth.org/articles/20 ... substitute

Having said that, I always say that it's each to their own. I love the taste of full-blown Pepsi far better than Coke, but I'm afraid I'll only drink the whole-sugar one. I rarely have any though, and especially since I've come across these beautiful organic fizzy drinks and cordials. There's nothing remotely horrible in them as far as any chemical additives or sprays're concerned. I don't mind if people laugh at my "food and drinks quirks". I don't want to be preaching about the dangers in this and that, but I'm getting pretty expert on what to avoid if I can.

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Kellemora
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Kellemora » 02 Aug 2016, 12:56

All Hype Icey, all hype. You don't compare Sucralose to DDT any more than you compare common table salt to DDT.
It's a scare tactic with no basis in fact, real or imagined.

I've bought soda made with Stevia. Besides being grossly overpriced, the taste is inconsistent from carton to carton. It's sorta like coffee, you never know what flavor you are going to get each batch.

I probably drink and use more Sucralose than anyone you've ever met, and my internal organs are just fine. Well, all except my heart which is claimed as hereditary. If I was drinking and using Aspartame instead, I would probably be dead by now.

Everyone makes a BIG DEAL about the fact a part of the manufacturing process uses chlorine. Our drinking water is chlorinated, and many of the things we eat contain the chloride molecule, such as common table salt already mentioned.

Almost every negative statement made about Sucralose is by someone with a vested interest in Aspartame or some other artificial sweetener, or an alternative sweetener.

Did you ever notice when they talk about Sugar, they never differentiate the difference between Vegetable Based Sugar and Cane Sugar. Cane Sugar has CARBON in it, which is not found in Vegetable Based Sugars. Undissolved Organic Carbon, the result of using Cane Sugar, is DEADLY to our Coral Reefs, and to us too. But way too much advertising has been pumped into Cane Sugar for people to buy the more healthy Vegetable Based Sugars available to them, and usually for a cheaper price, because billions of dollars do not go to all the advertising, which the consumer is paying for.

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Icey
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Re: Juno reached Jupiter!

Post by Icey » 02 Aug 2016, 16:42

Yes, you're probably right Gary.

I believe in using plant sugars where necessary - Ssevia being amongst them. I read that there are 75 different plant sweeteners which can be obtained, but I object to companies charging so much for them. I also use honey, but you're kind of right about the taste of stevia in drinks. It varies between manufacturers, and not all of the stuff on your supermarket shelves are pure stevia anyway. We buy some organic stuff. It's expensive, but because it's so sweet, you use less to flavour whatever you add it to, so in comparison to sugar, I don't know which works out the best value for money but I certainly believe that it's healthier.

Although sucralose isn't a drug, it WAS made in a laboratory. The chemical process to make sucralose alters the chemical composition of the sugar so much that it's converted to a fructo-galactose molecule. This type of sugar molecule does not occur in nature and therefore your body does not possess the ability to properly metabolize it.

There's 3-week test which you can do to see if the sucralose's harming your body. If, at the end of it, you feel no adverse effects, it's said that you're tolerant to it, and it shouldn't do you any great harm, but to those who feel completely different after the experiment, it's a warning to stop having the stuff.

Whether you believe it's harmful or not, I think it's horrible what goes into our food and drinks. It doesn't harm everyone of course. It's like smoking. Some people could smoke 50 a day all their lives and might not suffer. Someone else could smoke 5 a day and it could trigger lung cancer or circulatory problems. I think it's the luck of the draw, but all therse evil chemicals should never be allowed in the first place.

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