179 a month, OUCH, I could never afford that high price.
I sure hope you figure out all the nuances of those USB Sticks.
Although I don't go to any of their meetings, a local LUG is looking for help, they are overloaded with new members asking to convert from Windows to Linux as dual boot systems. And to offer a few training sessions on Ubuntu or Linux Mint.
No problem on older computers, but some of these newer ones, and the laptops especially are dealing them fits too.
Apparently Windows came out with a new upgrade recently that is messing up existing Windows 10 installs.
Don't know what it is since I don't use Windows, and it looks like the Win10 computer I keep plugged up here got it's upgrade OK and rebooted. I've not used it to see if something is amiss, and would really know if it was anyhow.
They had a major onslaught of new users back in July and thought they had things thinned out.
But since the middle of September, they are having even more folks than they had in all of July.
Something is causing those Windows users to look to Linux.
One comment I saw said it is worse than when Windows came out with Vista, so many more we can't help them all.
Way To Go - Finally
Re: Way To Go - Finally
I'm no expert on dual booting Windows with Linux, but as of today I know A LOT about it. As you might have sensed from my ranting in this thread there is a lot of misinformation and outright bad information out there in the wilds. I had a hell of a time deciding which is which, and I can't imagine what inexperienced people are going through.
Windows screwed up big time with the features update they sent out last May. I"m still not certain about why my last laptop up and died, but it happened about the time of the Windows update. There were a lot of stories on the web of a similar nature too. I sympathize with people who are having trouble with the updates. Microsoft has really failed in that regard. Only after I put a few hundred dollars into my laptop memory did I get down to a reasonable update cycle. Then again, I get updates every week. Sometimes twice a week. The rest of the world only sees what I get a couple times a year.
Having acknowledged some shortcomings of Windows, and in consideration of the Linux related problems discussed in this thread, anybody who switches away from Windows needs some serious counseling and therapy. I hear you loud and clear when you tell me about all the things Linux can do, but, my friend. it's simply not worth the trouble that goes with it.
On a positive note, I accomplished what I set out to do this morning regarding Linux on a stick. Well, sort of accomplished. I'll briefly remind you that my goal all along has been to determine if there is a viable alternative to the Windows 7 that soon will be dead and buried. Linux is the go-to of choice, obviously, and I have been tinkering with it for a few years now. The end of life for Windows 7 doesn't mean I have to do away with it, but that certainly would be an appropriate moment to make a decision about what direction I'll be going in the future. To that end I've been looking into various versions of Linux. Much of my investigation involved putting the OS on a USB memory stick so that I didn't have to tie up my main systems with software that may or may not work. That's when I learned about UEFI and its attendant problems. Well, it's a problem for Linux to be sure, but I'm not convinced Windows is having any problems at all with it.
The latest goal was to find a way to install Linux on a USB memory stick in such a way that I can boot from that device on either one of the two computers I use daily. The ASUS tower is MBR based, or as we know it, legacy BIOS. The new laptop is all UEFI. As it happens they both are UEFI but the tower is set to emulate MBR. It's been a struggle for the last month or two and I have you to thank for a lot of what I learned. You came up with some invaluable information and put me in touch with some knowledgeable people. The author of that tutorial I keep referring to and his cohort are what I can safely call experts. They run a segment of the Linux Mint forum in which that tutorial appears. You can look at the link and see that there are currently five pages of dialogue. In the final analysis the experts could not understand why I am unable to do what I want to be doing. Both of them, and many others, are doing it. Thus, the conclusion is that my BIOS is quirky. Good luck with that. In other words the experts gave up.
It's not a total loss given that I met some very well informed people and I did learn a lot. I also came up with a solution thanks to those guys. It's a bit unconventional, but it is a solution. A method of booting into both UEFI and MBR is described in the tutorial. My original goal was to simply find a way to boot UEFI only, but this would be a bonus if it were backward compatible too. Well, it can't be in my particular hardware case. I can make Linux on a stick that will boot on any UEFI computer or any MBR computer, but not both. It's convoluted too, but something you and I have talked about a few times. A working OS is installed first, then the Grub part is copied in from a repository. Doing it this way works around the flaw built into the Ubuntu installer where it modifies the Windows bootloader. It's not that difficult to do, but it requires a working knowledge of the command line, partitioning, and the boot process in general. I don't see how any casual computer user would be willing to do this even just once. In the end I had to set the firmware in my MBR machine to the CSM mode, which allows it to also boot UEFI in addition to it's normal MBR method. So, in effect, both computers now are UEFI. One is dedicated and the other is selectable.
At the end of the day nobody will raise their hand when asked who wants to do what I am doing? It's insane, and I admit it. All those potential Linux users just want a computer that works. That's why they are abandoning Windows. They can't figure it out. Well, I've got news for them. Linux isn't a piece of cake either.
Windows screwed up big time with the features update they sent out last May. I"m still not certain about why my last laptop up and died, but it happened about the time of the Windows update. There were a lot of stories on the web of a similar nature too. I sympathize with people who are having trouble with the updates. Microsoft has really failed in that regard. Only after I put a few hundred dollars into my laptop memory did I get down to a reasonable update cycle. Then again, I get updates every week. Sometimes twice a week. The rest of the world only sees what I get a couple times a year.
Having acknowledged some shortcomings of Windows, and in consideration of the Linux related problems discussed in this thread, anybody who switches away from Windows needs some serious counseling and therapy. I hear you loud and clear when you tell me about all the things Linux can do, but, my friend. it's simply not worth the trouble that goes with it.
On a positive note, I accomplished what I set out to do this morning regarding Linux on a stick. Well, sort of accomplished. I'll briefly remind you that my goal all along has been to determine if there is a viable alternative to the Windows 7 that soon will be dead and buried. Linux is the go-to of choice, obviously, and I have been tinkering with it for a few years now. The end of life for Windows 7 doesn't mean I have to do away with it, but that certainly would be an appropriate moment to make a decision about what direction I'll be going in the future. To that end I've been looking into various versions of Linux. Much of my investigation involved putting the OS on a USB memory stick so that I didn't have to tie up my main systems with software that may or may not work. That's when I learned about UEFI and its attendant problems. Well, it's a problem for Linux to be sure, but I'm not convinced Windows is having any problems at all with it.
The latest goal was to find a way to install Linux on a USB memory stick in such a way that I can boot from that device on either one of the two computers I use daily. The ASUS tower is MBR based, or as we know it, legacy BIOS. The new laptop is all UEFI. As it happens they both are UEFI but the tower is set to emulate MBR. It's been a struggle for the last month or two and I have you to thank for a lot of what I learned. You came up with some invaluable information and put me in touch with some knowledgeable people. The author of that tutorial I keep referring to and his cohort are what I can safely call experts. They run a segment of the Linux Mint forum in which that tutorial appears. You can look at the link and see that there are currently five pages of dialogue. In the final analysis the experts could not understand why I am unable to do what I want to be doing. Both of them, and many others, are doing it. Thus, the conclusion is that my BIOS is quirky. Good luck with that. In other words the experts gave up.
It's not a total loss given that I met some very well informed people and I did learn a lot. I also came up with a solution thanks to those guys. It's a bit unconventional, but it is a solution. A method of booting into both UEFI and MBR is described in the tutorial. My original goal was to simply find a way to boot UEFI only, but this would be a bonus if it were backward compatible too. Well, it can't be in my particular hardware case. I can make Linux on a stick that will boot on any UEFI computer or any MBR computer, but not both. It's convoluted too, but something you and I have talked about a few times. A working OS is installed first, then the Grub part is copied in from a repository. Doing it this way works around the flaw built into the Ubuntu installer where it modifies the Windows bootloader. It's not that difficult to do, but it requires a working knowledge of the command line, partitioning, and the boot process in general. I don't see how any casual computer user would be willing to do this even just once. In the end I had to set the firmware in my MBR machine to the CSM mode, which allows it to also boot UEFI in addition to it's normal MBR method. So, in effect, both computers now are UEFI. One is dedicated and the other is selectable.
At the end of the day nobody will raise their hand when asked who wants to do what I am doing? It's insane, and I admit it. All those potential Linux users just want a computer that works. That's why they are abandoning Windows. They can't figure it out. Well, I've got news for them. Linux isn't a piece of cake either.
Re: Way To Go - Finally
Hmm, I've been using Linux exclusively now since around 2006 or earlier.
I can't think of any problems that were not easily overcome, but virtually no problems for several years now.
I'm on my computers all day every day, using Debian most of the time. Linux Mint Mate a little bit, but not much.
I do one heck of a lot of things during the day on the computer, things that would be more difficult on windoze.
I think what I like best about Linux is the fact the programs are all logical, something you find in very many windoze programs. But the best part is Linux is FREE. I stated once before it would cost me about 6 grand to go back to using windows. At 700 bucks a month income, that is basically an impossibility. Linux may have a few quirks, but is it worth 6 grand to tolerate them? I say YES!
I can't think of any problems that were not easily overcome, but virtually no problems for several years now.
I'm on my computers all day every day, using Debian most of the time. Linux Mint Mate a little bit, but not much.
I do one heck of a lot of things during the day on the computer, things that would be more difficult on windoze.
I think what I like best about Linux is the fact the programs are all logical, something you find in very many windoze programs. But the best part is Linux is FREE. I stated once before it would cost me about 6 grand to go back to using windows. At 700 bucks a month income, that is basically an impossibility. Linux may have a few quirks, but is it worth 6 grand to tolerate them? I say YES!
Re: Way To Go - Finally
No matter what goes down in this world, the bottom line inevitably is money related. You'd be crazy to spend 6 grand on software if you can do the same things free. That's not the issue I've been dealing with. My perspective at this point in time is, as it always has been, you get what you pay for. I'd venture to guess you don't have any problems because you don't change anything basic. Or, more likely, you are like me. The problems you do have are tolerated because other things are more important.
I've discovered that in order to sample the different flavors of Linux, a high degree of technical understanding is required beforehand. One aspect of this USB game I've been playing involves disk partitioning. We all know about Gparted, of course, but did you ever have to use fdisk, gdisk, sfdisk, or parted? All those programs, and others, deal with disk partitioning in one way or another. Using all of them was required for me to be able to burn a removable memory device so that I can test Linux conveniently. I didn't know any of those command line utilities existed until this past week, much less did I understand what they do exactly. I STILL don't understand them and I'm a pretty smart person. OK, not as smart as the people who held my hand teaching about those things, but still pretty clever. Well, no, I didn't have to learn all that. I could have found somebody here in O'Fallon who would sell me pre-installed disks that might work in my particular environment. Now that I know more about my environment, I doubt I could actually buy one of those pre-made Linux on a stick things and have it work.
My point is that you don't see the issues I see because you are doing something entirely different. I don't think it's too unreasonable to want to have a working Linux OS on a USB stick. Lots of kids at your local library have a use for such things. It is unreasonable to require advanced knowledge of operating systems and how they are booted and all the tools it takes to get that to happen.
Today I accomplished the task using a second method found in that tutorial I keep talking about. The general idea is the same as before. Install a Linux OS to a memory stick, then install a bootloader to go along with it. Today's success was to use a replacement for the GRUB we all know and love. It's called rEFInd. It looks nothing like Grub and in fact I was reminded of an Apple Computer docking bar when I first saw it. There is a row of icons along the bottom of what would be the GRUB selection menu. They are familiar icons with the Windows and various Linux logos. Hovering over each one reveals text with the location of what would be launched if you clicked on the icon. Since I have multiple OS's on any one of my computers, this was a bit of a challenge to remember which one was located where. Once the icon is clicked, then the whole thing disappears forever; well for that session anyway. The familiar startup screen with the long list of things the OS is doing to boot rolls right on by as it should. The beauty of this is that it's simple to install. Since GRUB isn't loaded during installation, there is no chace for rEFInd to screw with my Windows boot manager either. And, since I made the tower CSM so that it will boot BIOS or UEFI, this rEFInd works on all my computers.
This method was a lot easier than the previous one and is worth considering as a standard. Of course I will change my mind the first time something won't boot and I need to adjust GRUB parameters, which don't exist in this method. But, until then I am a happy camper. This project didn't turn out the way I would like it to, but I now can do what I used to do in the days before UEFI.
I've discovered that in order to sample the different flavors of Linux, a high degree of technical understanding is required beforehand. One aspect of this USB game I've been playing involves disk partitioning. We all know about Gparted, of course, but did you ever have to use fdisk, gdisk, sfdisk, or parted? All those programs, and others, deal with disk partitioning in one way or another. Using all of them was required for me to be able to burn a removable memory device so that I can test Linux conveniently. I didn't know any of those command line utilities existed until this past week, much less did I understand what they do exactly. I STILL don't understand them and I'm a pretty smart person. OK, not as smart as the people who held my hand teaching about those things, but still pretty clever. Well, no, I didn't have to learn all that. I could have found somebody here in O'Fallon who would sell me pre-installed disks that might work in my particular environment. Now that I know more about my environment, I doubt I could actually buy one of those pre-made Linux on a stick things and have it work.
My point is that you don't see the issues I see because you are doing something entirely different. I don't think it's too unreasonable to want to have a working Linux OS on a USB stick. Lots of kids at your local library have a use for such things. It is unreasonable to require advanced knowledge of operating systems and how they are booted and all the tools it takes to get that to happen.
Today I accomplished the task using a second method found in that tutorial I keep talking about. The general idea is the same as before. Install a Linux OS to a memory stick, then install a bootloader to go along with it. Today's success was to use a replacement for the GRUB we all know and love. It's called rEFInd. It looks nothing like Grub and in fact I was reminded of an Apple Computer docking bar when I first saw it. There is a row of icons along the bottom of what would be the GRUB selection menu. They are familiar icons with the Windows and various Linux logos. Hovering over each one reveals text with the location of what would be launched if you clicked on the icon. Since I have multiple OS's on any one of my computers, this was a bit of a challenge to remember which one was located where. Once the icon is clicked, then the whole thing disappears forever; well for that session anyway. The familiar startup screen with the long list of things the OS is doing to boot rolls right on by as it should. The beauty of this is that it's simple to install. Since GRUB isn't loaded during installation, there is no chace for rEFInd to screw with my Windows boot manager either. And, since I made the tower CSM so that it will boot BIOS or UEFI, this rEFInd works on all my computers.
This method was a lot easier than the previous one and is worth considering as a standard. Of course I will change my mind the first time something won't boot and I need to adjust GRUB parameters, which don't exist in this method. But, until then I am a happy camper. This project didn't turn out the way I would like it to, but I now can do what I used to do in the days before UEFI.
Re: Way To Go - Finally
That's wonderful, I'm glad you finally achieved your goal, even if not in the way you wanted it to work.
Technically, I do use command line instructions several times a day, sorta.
I use the BASH command in Terminal to find the time and day to harvest, and when the crop will die for each crop I plant on Farm Town, hi hi.
I also use a command line instruction in terminal to clear my cache, check for updates, upgrades, and a couple of other things. However, for all of these, I have the command line instructions saved in a file so I just cut n paste.
As far as using command line stuff for other things, nope, that is super rare, and only if I have a problem.
Many of the command line things I need to do has GUI programs that make it easier for me. I just click on boxes and it formulates the code in the background and then runs it for me, hi hi. Like Rsync. I use GRsync, the GUI version.
I normally use Synaptic Manager instead of typing apt-get commands too.
Believe me, you are not the only one having a lot of problems with UEFI.
One of the publication advertisers I use bought a new computer.
In the past, all she had to do was move her old HD to the new computer and she was up and running after it adjusted drivers for a new monitor or something.
I used to do this too, make my old drive a slave, and then copy the data from it over to the new HD that came in the computer.
Although the drive she moved was SATA, and although it plugged right in, she couldn't boot from it.
She took it out and put it back in her old computer and it worked just fine.
It probably has to do with the fact her old computer used bios, and the new computer is UEFI only.
In any case, she went out and bought a new HD for it, and has tried umpteen times to install her Win10 to it.
I think it is an OEM Win10 which will only work on the computer it was made for.
She took it back and bought a computer with Win10 already installed, only to find several of her programs don't work on Win10, and apparently there is no compatibility mode either.
Her husband took her computer back to the store himself this time and had them install Win7, as a dual boot with Win10.
It automatically comes up from a boot in Win7 for her right now, because her husband changed a boot setting so she don't get confused. In any case, she's a happy camper for right now. While he is looking for Win10 versions of her programs, without much success yet. Most of her programs have to do with publication advertising and came from unusual sources for software, and from within the advertising industry.
On a side note: I found something interesting talking to a kid at the library yesterday afternoon.
He wasn't using Linux, but WAS USING Window XP Pro from a USB stick.
Said he can't afford to upgrade the programs he uses, so had a friend make him the USB stick with XP Pro on it.
I warned him about the problems I had by not upgrading, and after a few upgrades the new versions can't read the old versions.
He said it was no problem because most of his work he saves in several formats, a few of which can be read by other programs and be updated that way. But he said everything I do as homework is saved as PDF anyhow.
He had an ancient PhotoShop program he was using at the time, to deal with images he was downloading using the library computer then copying them to his USB Stick to work on. I didn't catch if it was the same USB stick, because he had to reboot a couple of times. Once to get the library computer up as the library computer, from which he copied data to a USB stick he unplugged, and then again rebooted to boot into the USB stick he plugged back in. I just didn't see if it was the same one or a different one, and had to get going. I think he said you can't use XP anymore to go to websites. Which is why he had to use the Win10 library computer.
Technically, I do use command line instructions several times a day, sorta.
I use the BASH command in Terminal to find the time and day to harvest, and when the crop will die for each crop I plant on Farm Town, hi hi.
I also use a command line instruction in terminal to clear my cache, check for updates, upgrades, and a couple of other things. However, for all of these, I have the command line instructions saved in a file so I just cut n paste.
As far as using command line stuff for other things, nope, that is super rare, and only if I have a problem.
Many of the command line things I need to do has GUI programs that make it easier for me. I just click on boxes and it formulates the code in the background and then runs it for me, hi hi. Like Rsync. I use GRsync, the GUI version.
I normally use Synaptic Manager instead of typing apt-get commands too.
Believe me, you are not the only one having a lot of problems with UEFI.
One of the publication advertisers I use bought a new computer.
In the past, all she had to do was move her old HD to the new computer and she was up and running after it adjusted drivers for a new monitor or something.
I used to do this too, make my old drive a slave, and then copy the data from it over to the new HD that came in the computer.
Although the drive she moved was SATA, and although it plugged right in, she couldn't boot from it.
She took it out and put it back in her old computer and it worked just fine.
It probably has to do with the fact her old computer used bios, and the new computer is UEFI only.
In any case, she went out and bought a new HD for it, and has tried umpteen times to install her Win10 to it.
I think it is an OEM Win10 which will only work on the computer it was made for.
She took it back and bought a computer with Win10 already installed, only to find several of her programs don't work on Win10, and apparently there is no compatibility mode either.
Her husband took her computer back to the store himself this time and had them install Win7, as a dual boot with Win10.
It automatically comes up from a boot in Win7 for her right now, because her husband changed a boot setting so she don't get confused. In any case, she's a happy camper for right now. While he is looking for Win10 versions of her programs, without much success yet. Most of her programs have to do with publication advertising and came from unusual sources for software, and from within the advertising industry.
On a side note: I found something interesting talking to a kid at the library yesterday afternoon.
He wasn't using Linux, but WAS USING Window XP Pro from a USB stick.
Said he can't afford to upgrade the programs he uses, so had a friend make him the USB stick with XP Pro on it.
I warned him about the problems I had by not upgrading, and after a few upgrades the new versions can't read the old versions.
He said it was no problem because most of his work he saves in several formats, a few of which can be read by other programs and be updated that way. But he said everything I do as homework is saved as PDF anyhow.
He had an ancient PhotoShop program he was using at the time, to deal with images he was downloading using the library computer then copying them to his USB Stick to work on. I didn't catch if it was the same USB stick, because he had to reboot a couple of times. Once to get the library computer up as the library computer, from which he copied data to a USB stick he unplugged, and then again rebooted to boot into the USB stick he plugged back in. I just didn't see if it was the same one or a different one, and had to get going. I think he said you can't use XP anymore to go to websites. Which is why he had to use the Win10 library computer.
Re: Way To Go - Finally
I'll talk about Windows here, but I can assure you Linux has identical problems.
The self-imposed crisis I'm experiencing here is due to the fact that Windows 7, my default and go-to operating system, was the last of a breed. Any OS Microsoft released after the Windows 7 series is a different animal altogether. You simply can't take Windows 7 pieces, be they hardware or software, and slip them into a Windows 10 computer. But, but, but ... they look, almost the same, and it's all Windows? Right? Your friend might just as well be trying to switch from Linux to Windows (I know, she would be crazy to do that, but this is hypothetical). The files look the same on the monitor but they are formatted differently. You can't even install a Linux program on a purely Windows computer. And, of course, it works the other way around too. Windows doesn't work on Linux.
There are work arounds and solutions to such problems. Using virtual machines, for example. There are programs that will change disc formats from MBR to GPT and copy files back and forth. Firmware can be set to boot UEFI only, MBR only, or both. You just got to know how to do all that and it's insane to ask a book publisher to be familiar with something as hairy as bootloaders, protective MBR's, and disc format vs file format. I mean, if a dumb kid at the library can get Windows XP to run on a Windows 10 computer, your friend should not have problems converting over her files. Now, finding compatible software is a whole different can of worms.
The kid you talked to has the right answer. Don't upgrade. Stay with the old school until it's impossible to use any more. Then get a pro to set up something new for you, or take a year or two off from your regular job and learn about how computers work. Then you can do it yourself.
Sarcastic? Well, maybe and I apologize. But, I just encountered yet another problem that I've seen over and over again. I'm trying to duplicate my recent Linux on a stick success using VirtualBox. The people I've been talking to at Linux Mint recommend doing that and it's part of the infamous tutorial. So I tried it and it doesn't work quite the way they say. It boils down to the fact that it works for them in Linux Mint, but they don't know much about Ubuntu or Windows or the crazy firmware I have. So much for help forums.
The self-imposed crisis I'm experiencing here is due to the fact that Windows 7, my default and go-to operating system, was the last of a breed. Any OS Microsoft released after the Windows 7 series is a different animal altogether. You simply can't take Windows 7 pieces, be they hardware or software, and slip them into a Windows 10 computer. But, but, but ... they look, almost the same, and it's all Windows? Right? Your friend might just as well be trying to switch from Linux to Windows (I know, she would be crazy to do that, but this is hypothetical). The files look the same on the monitor but they are formatted differently. You can't even install a Linux program on a purely Windows computer. And, of course, it works the other way around too. Windows doesn't work on Linux.
There are work arounds and solutions to such problems. Using virtual machines, for example. There are programs that will change disc formats from MBR to GPT and copy files back and forth. Firmware can be set to boot UEFI only, MBR only, or both. You just got to know how to do all that and it's insane to ask a book publisher to be familiar with something as hairy as bootloaders, protective MBR's, and disc format vs file format. I mean, if a dumb kid at the library can get Windows XP to run on a Windows 10 computer, your friend should not have problems converting over her files. Now, finding compatible software is a whole different can of worms.
The kid you talked to has the right answer. Don't upgrade. Stay with the old school until it's impossible to use any more. Then get a pro to set up something new for you, or take a year or two off from your regular job and learn about how computers work. Then you can do it yourself.
Sarcastic? Well, maybe and I apologize. But, I just encountered yet another problem that I've seen over and over again. I'm trying to duplicate my recent Linux on a stick success using VirtualBox. The people I've been talking to at Linux Mint recommend doing that and it's part of the infamous tutorial. So I tried it and it doesn't work quite the way they say. It boils down to the fact that it works for them in Linux Mint, but they don't know much about Ubuntu or Windows or the crazy firmware I have. So much for help forums.
Re: Way To Go - Finally
I'm going to digress here a minute, back to when I purchased a new HP Scanjet 4670. This was the most expensive of the scanners they had at that time.
My newest computer I went whole hog and bought one with Windows XP-Pro-MCE the latest OS out by Mickey$oft.
As usual, the first HP Scanjet was tested as DEFECTIVE, so they replaced it.
We could not get the replacement to work either, but it tested with no problems.
After several days on the phone with HP Support, they recommended I go out and buy an HP computer.
They ensured me that the HP model such n such was a perfect match for that scanner.
Over a week of trying different things, working with the HP techs moving up the line to higher level techs since no one could figure out the problem. They finally said they have no idea what the problem was. I have the right computer for the scanner and it should work perfectly.
So now I'm sitting here with a brand new HP computer, more expensive than I could really afford.
A computer that was less than a year old, not as expensive at the HP but still costly.
And a new Scanner we never got to work.
I did have an older computer, probably around 5 years old at the time, with Windows XP Home on it.
I was messing around one day and thought, I'm going to try the new scanner on the old computer and see what happens.
I loaded the necessary software, no problems their, connected the Scanner, and dang it worked just like it was supposed to.
Great, I finally got it working, Yippie.
OK, a couple of months go by and as I moved old hardware to my newest computer, I get notices I need to download an updated driver. No problem, every device I connected, I went to their website and got the new drivers. For everything except the HP Scanner.
Once again I talked to HP and said we finally figured out the problem with the scanner not working on my new HP computer you guys told me to buy. It came shipped with XP-Pro-MCE, NOT just XP-Pro, and the MCE version uses different drivers for my hardware than works on XP-Pro.
They gave me the runaround, and even stated, there is no difference between XP-Pro and XP-Pro-MCE. MCE is just an add-on package to the Operating System. They did not have a Driver for Windows XP-MCE and would never write one.
Windows XP-Pro-MCE had so many problems they quit making it.
I went out and bought XP-Pro and installed it on the HP computer first.
Now the scanner worked on the HP computer.
Bought another license to put it on my newest computer, and the scanner worked on it also.
So there Definitely was a Difference about the MCE version.
Not counting my two really old computers I only used for accounting.
I now had THREE computers, one a little older, the newest one, and the brand new HP computer.
Which one do you think was the first computer to burn out?
If you guessed HP, you guessed right!
I really could not afford the higher priced scanner, much less go out and buy an expensive computer to get it to work.
Now you know why I had HP products blacklisted for so many years.
And THEN, when I did buy the expensive HP lazer printer with duplexer and scanner.
Once again they sent me a DEFECTIVE unit. Only I did not know it was defective until after the warranty ran out.
I stuck my neck out and bought an almost identical printer, same make and model only without the duplexer.
So far it is working OK. But even so, I've still got a dead brand new one sitting I paid HP for, and they don't stand behind their products. Never have and never will as far as I'm concerned.
I've NEVER had the kinds of problems with GNU/Linux as I have with Windows and getting it to work with hardware.
At least with Linux, I'm not out all the money the Windows OS's cost, trying to get a piece of hardware working.
And now they came out with a new OS that is not compatible with their own programs.
Almost impossible to do common things on Windows computers, as you have clearly stated for a few months now.
Linux runs the World, it's about time for Windows to Die!
My newest computer I went whole hog and bought one with Windows XP-Pro-MCE the latest OS out by Mickey$oft.
As usual, the first HP Scanjet was tested as DEFECTIVE, so they replaced it.
We could not get the replacement to work either, but it tested with no problems.
After several days on the phone with HP Support, they recommended I go out and buy an HP computer.
They ensured me that the HP model such n such was a perfect match for that scanner.
Over a week of trying different things, working with the HP techs moving up the line to higher level techs since no one could figure out the problem. They finally said they have no idea what the problem was. I have the right computer for the scanner and it should work perfectly.
So now I'm sitting here with a brand new HP computer, more expensive than I could really afford.
A computer that was less than a year old, not as expensive at the HP but still costly.
And a new Scanner we never got to work.
I did have an older computer, probably around 5 years old at the time, with Windows XP Home on it.
I was messing around one day and thought, I'm going to try the new scanner on the old computer and see what happens.
I loaded the necessary software, no problems their, connected the Scanner, and dang it worked just like it was supposed to.
Great, I finally got it working, Yippie.
OK, a couple of months go by and as I moved old hardware to my newest computer, I get notices I need to download an updated driver. No problem, every device I connected, I went to their website and got the new drivers. For everything except the HP Scanner.
Once again I talked to HP and said we finally figured out the problem with the scanner not working on my new HP computer you guys told me to buy. It came shipped with XP-Pro-MCE, NOT just XP-Pro, and the MCE version uses different drivers for my hardware than works on XP-Pro.
They gave me the runaround, and even stated, there is no difference between XP-Pro and XP-Pro-MCE. MCE is just an add-on package to the Operating System. They did not have a Driver for Windows XP-MCE and would never write one.
Windows XP-Pro-MCE had so many problems they quit making it.
I went out and bought XP-Pro and installed it on the HP computer first.
Now the scanner worked on the HP computer.
Bought another license to put it on my newest computer, and the scanner worked on it also.
So there Definitely was a Difference about the MCE version.
Not counting my two really old computers I only used for accounting.
I now had THREE computers, one a little older, the newest one, and the brand new HP computer.
Which one do you think was the first computer to burn out?
If you guessed HP, you guessed right!
I really could not afford the higher priced scanner, much less go out and buy an expensive computer to get it to work.
Now you know why I had HP products blacklisted for so many years.
And THEN, when I did buy the expensive HP lazer printer with duplexer and scanner.
Once again they sent me a DEFECTIVE unit. Only I did not know it was defective until after the warranty ran out.
I stuck my neck out and bought an almost identical printer, same make and model only without the duplexer.
So far it is working OK. But even so, I've still got a dead brand new one sitting I paid HP for, and they don't stand behind their products. Never have and never will as far as I'm concerned.
I've NEVER had the kinds of problems with GNU/Linux as I have with Windows and getting it to work with hardware.
At least with Linux, I'm not out all the money the Windows OS's cost, trying to get a piece of hardware working.
And now they came out with a new OS that is not compatible with their own programs.
Almost impossible to do common things on Windows computers, as you have clearly stated for a few months now.
Linux runs the World, it's about time for Windows to Die!
Re: Way To Go - Finally
I don't know if you noticed or not, but this entire thread is about the problems I'm experiencing with Linux. Windows is working just fine in UEFI, MBR, and anywhere else I put it. To be fair I will admit that I have not tried to put Windows on a stick, although I have run into programs and articles that will do just that. Do you know why I have not attempted that? It's too damned expensive to buy a Windows license! So, now I'm playing with Free and Open Source Software designed specifically to conquer the shortcomings of Windows. Well, Linux is free, but that's all it has going for it. I recognize that it works fine for you and I truly sympathize with your unwillingness to pay for licenses when you can do the job for free. Consider yourself fortunate to be so successful.
Re: Way To Go - Finally
What peaked my interest in Linux the first time I tried it was a new accounting company that opened up on the third floor of the new bank building they built right down the street from us.
They only had one mini-mainframe which didn't really do all that much, except allocate file storage, from what I understand anyhow. It took the mini-mainframe to run all those tape drive cabinets they had lined up.
But every computer throughout their offices were all early Red Hat Linux.
I do realize they had their own programmers develop the software they used, and I'm sure it was quite complex.
Their grand opening tour was over an hour long, and they explained every aspect of their business, right down to desks and chairs in each little mini-office in the main area, which was surrounded by closed offices along the outer walls.
One would have thought, since their mini-mainframe and all the computers were IBM, they would have been running IBM's own software. Perhaps they were for the main functioning of the mini-mainframe. But their primary reason for going with Red Hat Linux had to do with security, functionality, and a few other things they mentioned I've long since forgotten.
Another company by the name of PayChex which we used to make out payroll checks for us in our final years in business, had only Windows computers on their floor. But had a massive Mainframe all the work was actually done on. The Windows computer workstations of that era were all booted up from ROM cards into the Mainframe.
In the four years we used them, they were late getting the payroll checks out to us due to problems with their system at least nine times. One of those times they were a whole week late, so we had to write payroll checks ourselves, what we called bread and butter checks for our employees.
The bank I've been with for over 25 years now uses a super mainframe computer. I may have the name misspelled but it is something like Fujikama, Fujitsuma, or something like that. Plus they have several server racks filling four or five rows of them. Not super huge like a server farm, but really big for a bank. I only visited their home office one time a few years ago, but only because it was free and they paid for the transportation and lodging.
Not that I was a large business by any means, cost them more than they ever made from me. But apparently I was one of their oldest business customers having more than one business account with them, which is why I got invited. Seems like it was in Alabama of all places, hi hi. They provided all the transportation. I lived in St. Louis at the time, and they sent a private car service who picked me and the frau up at home, took us to the airport, and after we arrive we went in a larger bus like airport limo to the hotel. Picked up there for the tour. Only one meal was provided at the tour, we had to fend for ourselves for our other meals. The hotel did have breakfast, and across the street was a restaurant for dinner. Then the next morning, after the small rolls provided by the hotel, we were taken back to the airport. Back home our ride back to our house was by airport taxi, not the same folks who picked us up.
They only had one mini-mainframe which didn't really do all that much, except allocate file storage, from what I understand anyhow. It took the mini-mainframe to run all those tape drive cabinets they had lined up.
But every computer throughout their offices were all early Red Hat Linux.
I do realize they had their own programmers develop the software they used, and I'm sure it was quite complex.
Their grand opening tour was over an hour long, and they explained every aspect of their business, right down to desks and chairs in each little mini-office in the main area, which was surrounded by closed offices along the outer walls.
One would have thought, since their mini-mainframe and all the computers were IBM, they would have been running IBM's own software. Perhaps they were for the main functioning of the mini-mainframe. But their primary reason for going with Red Hat Linux had to do with security, functionality, and a few other things they mentioned I've long since forgotten.
Another company by the name of PayChex which we used to make out payroll checks for us in our final years in business, had only Windows computers on their floor. But had a massive Mainframe all the work was actually done on. The Windows computer workstations of that era were all booted up from ROM cards into the Mainframe.
In the four years we used them, they were late getting the payroll checks out to us due to problems with their system at least nine times. One of those times they were a whole week late, so we had to write payroll checks ourselves, what we called bread and butter checks for our employees.
The bank I've been with for over 25 years now uses a super mainframe computer. I may have the name misspelled but it is something like Fujikama, Fujitsuma, or something like that. Plus they have several server racks filling four or five rows of them. Not super huge like a server farm, but really big for a bank. I only visited their home office one time a few years ago, but only because it was free and they paid for the transportation and lodging.
Not that I was a large business by any means, cost them more than they ever made from me. But apparently I was one of their oldest business customers having more than one business account with them, which is why I got invited. Seems like it was in Alabama of all places, hi hi. They provided all the transportation. I lived in St. Louis at the time, and they sent a private car service who picked me and the frau up at home, took us to the airport, and after we arrive we went in a larger bus like airport limo to the hotel. Picked up there for the tour. Only one meal was provided at the tour, we had to fend for ourselves for our other meals. The hotel did have breakfast, and across the street was a restaurant for dinner. Then the next morning, after the small rolls provided by the hotel, we were taken back to the airport. Back home our ride back to our house was by airport taxi, not the same folks who picked us up.
Re: Way To Go - Finally
My interest in Linux was piqued when I heard that is was too bad for anything practical. Of course this was coming from a group of system administrators who had to deal with IBM an HP all day long. I wanted to know personally why so many people were using such a "bad" operating system. It never occurred to me to just look at the Windows computers that dominated our offices. Why were people using them?
It boiled down to an intellectual curiosity and I didn't dive into it head long. Not until I retired did I actually attempt to run it. The guy who made my first computer for me, pre-Silver-Yogi days, put a copy of Fedora on it at my request. Knowing nothing about it and not having a mentor, I was totally unimpressed. Today, it's quite the opposite. The investigation I'm conducting at the moment is educational in many ways. In four months, should Microsoft actually stop support for Windows 7 as they say they will, I'll be making an informed decision about where to go from there.
As you might recall my laptop of old gave up the ghost and I replaced that legacy BIOS machine with a brand spanking new UEFI Windows 10 version. It was a calculated risk, but I was in the same situation as when I heard about how bad Linux is. Nobody I know actually likes UEFI. I now know why from personal experience. They have no clue how it works or should work. Yours truly is included in that crowd and I'm here to tell you the only way to appreciate what Windows 10 and UEFI has going for it is to burn as you learn.
Speaking of burning ...
I've been trying to duplicate my experiences that served me well on the old laptop. Specifically I was able to make a USB memory stick easily and plug it into any computer I owned to evaluate it's performance. The rule of thumb is to not mix UEFI and legacy BIOS, albeit perfectly within the specs of UEFI to do it. Since I have one of each the tutorial you sent my way explaining how to make a hybrid version of USB memory stick was very appealing. The tutorial, however, came from a Linux Mint forum. They can't guarantee anything that isn't done in the Mint family. This thread documents much of my struggle. A couple days ago I discovered a setting in my UEFI laptop that needed to be flipped in order to disable secure boot. There is another setting called ... Secure boot ... which I already disabled. But there is something called a trusted boot device that also needs to be disabled. In my BIOS that particular setting is only visible when Secure boot is enabled. Thus it remained hidden all this time. After I found it, I disabled it, and now the UEFI laptop is truly not secure boot.
In order to accomplish the hybrid installation that secure boot has to be off. Thus I was confident that I found the perfect solution. I created a hybrid memory stick as I did more than a week ago, but this time with the machine truly not secure boot enabled. Didn't matter. The Linux Mint now would boot either UEFI or legacy BIOS but not both. In order to switch from one to the other going into the partition scheme and setting some flags was required. This was considered insane by the Linux Mint folks and they never did come up with a solution. It is indeed an oddity and my curiosity was in high gear. Is this peculiarity only inherent in Linux Mint, or is is something weird in my BIOS? I've been using legacy BIOS for many years now and the hard drives never came out of that mode. So, I know the ASUS mobo in the tower can do it with hard drives, but can it do it with USB memory?
In order to answer that question I had to attempt creating a OS installed on USB memory that was purely legacy BIOS and no UEFI capability. I put a live version of Linux Mint into the tower and proceeded to create a USB memory stick. When it finished it would not boot legacy unless I flipped that partition flag on the stick. Same problem as before. The next test would be to try the same thing with something that is not Linux Mint; something like Ubuntu Mate. I managed to create the Mate on a stick and it would not boot in the UEFI laptop. When I tried to boot it in the tower ... nothing would boot anymore. I could not believe my eyes when Windows crashed. I've been doing this for 6 weeks now. Suddenly after Mint and Mate tried to be installed on USB memory sticks, the whole freakin' tower crashed.
I determined that Grub installed itself onto the Windows 7 MBR track. That's fine in theory. Windows can boot from Grub. Well most of the time, but not now. Not only did Linux - not sure which distro - install Grub on top of the Windows MBR, but it installed a corrupt version of Grub. I know it was corrupt because I have a trick that I can use to install a clean version onto that MBR which I did. After that all the Linux OS's on the tower booted just fine. Not so for Windows. It was time to get out the boot repair disk to recover the MBR. DIdn't work. So then I dug up the original Windows install DVD to repair the MBR. That did work Grub was gone now, but Windows could not boot. Windows itself was now corrupt. My last shot was to run the repair disk and try to fix the boot directory in Windows. It tried. Twice. Then refused to tray any more and told me to see the system admin about this. Windows was now corrupt to the point that it could not be repaired.
When I started this Linux adventure the thought of making a backup image of Windows crossed my mind. Things were going swimmingly and I never got around to it. Fortunately, I did make one in December past. That is what I finally tried, after 6-8 hours of wailing and gnashing of teeth. It worked. Windows now boots to where it was 9 months ago. Fortunately, when I was able to boot into one of Linux OS's during the Windows crash, I had the foresight to copy all the important files over the NAS. Not much was needed, but I did what I figured was most important. Recovery went well and I'm nearly back to normal because I do make monthly backups and images once in a while. Whatever I installed between Christmas and today is missing, but that isn't much. I'll discover all that over the next few weeks and simply reinstall as necessary.
So, my friend, Linux attacked my Windows OS. Windows is on a hard disk of its own just to prevent this kind of thing. All those Linux OS's are on a physically different disk. The USB's are not only different disks, but different buses; SATA vs USB. This happened once before under similar circumstances. I take full responsibility for what happened because while installing Linux Mint to USB I assumed it would put Grub on the USB memory stick and not go hunting down Windows and override the MBR. Silly me. I should have looked closer at the Grub installation. So now I must rebuild. But, that does not allow me to forgive Linux Mint for installing a corrupt Grub which ended up crashing the Windows boot directory. That is outright predatory.
It boiled down to an intellectual curiosity and I didn't dive into it head long. Not until I retired did I actually attempt to run it. The guy who made my first computer for me, pre-Silver-Yogi days, put a copy of Fedora on it at my request. Knowing nothing about it and not having a mentor, I was totally unimpressed. Today, it's quite the opposite. The investigation I'm conducting at the moment is educational in many ways. In four months, should Microsoft actually stop support for Windows 7 as they say they will, I'll be making an informed decision about where to go from there.
As you might recall my laptop of old gave up the ghost and I replaced that legacy BIOS machine with a brand spanking new UEFI Windows 10 version. It was a calculated risk, but I was in the same situation as when I heard about how bad Linux is. Nobody I know actually likes UEFI. I now know why from personal experience. They have no clue how it works or should work. Yours truly is included in that crowd and I'm here to tell you the only way to appreciate what Windows 10 and UEFI has going for it is to burn as you learn.
Speaking of burning ...
I've been trying to duplicate my experiences that served me well on the old laptop. Specifically I was able to make a USB memory stick easily and plug it into any computer I owned to evaluate it's performance. The rule of thumb is to not mix UEFI and legacy BIOS, albeit perfectly within the specs of UEFI to do it. Since I have one of each the tutorial you sent my way explaining how to make a hybrid version of USB memory stick was very appealing. The tutorial, however, came from a Linux Mint forum. They can't guarantee anything that isn't done in the Mint family. This thread documents much of my struggle. A couple days ago I discovered a setting in my UEFI laptop that needed to be flipped in order to disable secure boot. There is another setting called ... Secure boot ... which I already disabled. But there is something called a trusted boot device that also needs to be disabled. In my BIOS that particular setting is only visible when Secure boot is enabled. Thus it remained hidden all this time. After I found it, I disabled it, and now the UEFI laptop is truly not secure boot.
In order to accomplish the hybrid installation that secure boot has to be off. Thus I was confident that I found the perfect solution. I created a hybrid memory stick as I did more than a week ago, but this time with the machine truly not secure boot enabled. Didn't matter. The Linux Mint now would boot either UEFI or legacy BIOS but not both. In order to switch from one to the other going into the partition scheme and setting some flags was required. This was considered insane by the Linux Mint folks and they never did come up with a solution. It is indeed an oddity and my curiosity was in high gear. Is this peculiarity only inherent in Linux Mint, or is is something weird in my BIOS? I've been using legacy BIOS for many years now and the hard drives never came out of that mode. So, I know the ASUS mobo in the tower can do it with hard drives, but can it do it with USB memory?
In order to answer that question I had to attempt creating a OS installed on USB memory that was purely legacy BIOS and no UEFI capability. I put a live version of Linux Mint into the tower and proceeded to create a USB memory stick. When it finished it would not boot legacy unless I flipped that partition flag on the stick. Same problem as before. The next test would be to try the same thing with something that is not Linux Mint; something like Ubuntu Mate. I managed to create the Mate on a stick and it would not boot in the UEFI laptop. When I tried to boot it in the tower ... nothing would boot anymore. I could not believe my eyes when Windows crashed. I've been doing this for 6 weeks now. Suddenly after Mint and Mate tried to be installed on USB memory sticks, the whole freakin' tower crashed.
I determined that Grub installed itself onto the Windows 7 MBR track. That's fine in theory. Windows can boot from Grub. Well most of the time, but not now. Not only did Linux - not sure which distro - install Grub on top of the Windows MBR, but it installed a corrupt version of Grub. I know it was corrupt because I have a trick that I can use to install a clean version onto that MBR which I did. After that all the Linux OS's on the tower booted just fine. Not so for Windows. It was time to get out the boot repair disk to recover the MBR. DIdn't work. So then I dug up the original Windows install DVD to repair the MBR. That did work Grub was gone now, but Windows could not boot. Windows itself was now corrupt. My last shot was to run the repair disk and try to fix the boot directory in Windows. It tried. Twice. Then refused to tray any more and told me to see the system admin about this. Windows was now corrupt to the point that it could not be repaired.
When I started this Linux adventure the thought of making a backup image of Windows crossed my mind. Things were going swimmingly and I never got around to it. Fortunately, I did make one in December past. That is what I finally tried, after 6-8 hours of wailing and gnashing of teeth. It worked. Windows now boots to where it was 9 months ago. Fortunately, when I was able to boot into one of Linux OS's during the Windows crash, I had the foresight to copy all the important files over the NAS. Not much was needed, but I did what I figured was most important. Recovery went well and I'm nearly back to normal because I do make monthly backups and images once in a while. Whatever I installed between Christmas and today is missing, but that isn't much. I'll discover all that over the next few weeks and simply reinstall as necessary.
So, my friend, Linux attacked my Windows OS. Windows is on a hard disk of its own just to prevent this kind of thing. All those Linux OS's are on a physically different disk. The USB's are not only different disks, but different buses; SATA vs USB. This happened once before under similar circumstances. I take full responsibility for what happened because while installing Linux Mint to USB I assumed it would put Grub on the USB memory stick and not go hunting down Windows and override the MBR. Silly me. I should have looked closer at the Grub installation. So now I must rebuild. But, that does not allow me to forgive Linux Mint for installing a corrupt Grub which ended up crashing the Windows boot directory. That is outright predatory.
Re: Way To Go - Finally
Sorry you are having so many problems Yogi!
But at the same time I have to give a small chuckle.
You know how Windows thinks it's GOD, and must be FIRST on a system.
And if you try to install Windows on a Linux computer, it overwrites the MBR and Linux has to be reinstalled.
I think it is only fair that Linux should overwrite Windows MBR once in a while, just to prove Windows is not GOD, hi hi.
Do you want to hear an other thing which you probably already knew anyhow.
Down here at the U of Tenn, classes just started.
An entry level class known as Computer Systems did something they do every year so they knew where to start the kids in what class level.
Their Computer Sciences Department has a first class that starts out with 40 or so computers that have the hard drive wiped.
The very first project is to install the Ubuntu 18 operating system from a live CD, and keep several notes on their progress.
Out of 116 students, only 42 had a problem with installation that required asking for assistance.
The second project was to wipe the hard drive so it was ready for the next session.
The third project was to install the Windows 8 operating system from an install disk, and keep several notes.
Out of 116 students, 94 could not successfully install Windows 8 without asking for assistance.
Plus it took them an hour or two longer than the Ubuntu install.
Of those 22 students who successfully installed Windows 8, without assistance, they were then instructed to shrink Windows and add two partitions on the hard drive using the supplied program in Windows 8.
All 22 students had to ask for assistance to do this properly, and about half hosed their previous installs.
These were kids who grew up using computers, probably for most of their lives, and thought they we great at it!
Looking back five years at the same projects, all of the students did much better than the current raft of students.
Nearly 2/3 of the students could install Windows XP without asking for assistance. And many of them were not computer savvy having never owned a computer of their own.
In one of the bulletins that float around the Computer Sciences Department, it states that 89% of those who use Windows computers on a daily basis have no idea how to reinstall the very OS they are using. While only 12% of those using a Linux Distro's on a daily basis do not know how to reinstall their chosen OS.
The main reason is, 96% of folks running Windows bought their computers with the OS already installed. While only about 18% of those using Linux bought a machine with Linux already on it.
One of the first things a student must know how to do is to install an Operating System, a computer is useless without it.
This year, only about 15 students will start one level above the Computer Basics Beginner Class. Not a single one will jump up two class levels. In previous years, many students jumped two or more levels! What happened?
But at the same time I have to give a small chuckle.
You know how Windows thinks it's GOD, and must be FIRST on a system.
And if you try to install Windows on a Linux computer, it overwrites the MBR and Linux has to be reinstalled.
I think it is only fair that Linux should overwrite Windows MBR once in a while, just to prove Windows is not GOD, hi hi.
Do you want to hear an other thing which you probably already knew anyhow.
Down here at the U of Tenn, classes just started.
An entry level class known as Computer Systems did something they do every year so they knew where to start the kids in what class level.
Their Computer Sciences Department has a first class that starts out with 40 or so computers that have the hard drive wiped.
The very first project is to install the Ubuntu 18 operating system from a live CD, and keep several notes on their progress.
Out of 116 students, only 42 had a problem with installation that required asking for assistance.
The second project was to wipe the hard drive so it was ready for the next session.
The third project was to install the Windows 8 operating system from an install disk, and keep several notes.
Out of 116 students, 94 could not successfully install Windows 8 without asking for assistance.
Plus it took them an hour or two longer than the Ubuntu install.
Of those 22 students who successfully installed Windows 8, without assistance, they were then instructed to shrink Windows and add two partitions on the hard drive using the supplied program in Windows 8.
All 22 students had to ask for assistance to do this properly, and about half hosed their previous installs.
These were kids who grew up using computers, probably for most of their lives, and thought they we great at it!
Looking back five years at the same projects, all of the students did much better than the current raft of students.
Nearly 2/3 of the students could install Windows XP without asking for assistance. And many of them were not computer savvy having never owned a computer of their own.
In one of the bulletins that float around the Computer Sciences Department, it states that 89% of those who use Windows computers on a daily basis have no idea how to reinstall the very OS they are using. While only 12% of those using a Linux Distro's on a daily basis do not know how to reinstall their chosen OS.
The main reason is, 96% of folks running Windows bought their computers with the OS already installed. While only about 18% of those using Linux bought a machine with Linux already on it.
One of the first things a student must know how to do is to install an Operating System, a computer is useless without it.
This year, only about 15 students will start one level above the Computer Basics Beginner Class. Not a single one will jump up two class levels. In previous years, many students jumped two or more levels! What happened?
Re: Way To Go - Finally
The answer to your ending question is "mobile computing," i.e., smartphones, tablets, and game boxes. Laptops can still be bought at WalMart but desktops are headed toward extinction. Everything is up in the cloud now. In the mobile world there isn't much of a need to know how to install an OS and partition the space in which it lives. Only students trying to get a degree would be interested in that kind of thing. Well, them and old farts like me who have nothing better to do. 
You are right about the war over controlling the boot process. I've talked about it a few times in these forums. Linux grabs that position every chance it gets. Now with Windows 10 there is no chance for that to happen. Microsoft's revenge, if you will.
When you get to the point where I am at with this hobby, you have to expect the kind of problems I talk about here. I'm not just using computers. I'm experimenting with them. Experiments fail no matter how good you are at performing them. What happened in my case was unexpected and should not have happened in the first place. But it did. You know how that goes. Play with fire and you will eventually get burnt. It's wonderful to read that Linux is apparently easier to install than Windows, but I can assure you that all changes once it's installed. I can only speak for myself, obviously, but I've had fewer performance and compatibility issues in Windows than I have seen in any Linux OS I touched. I'm not talking about troubleshooting because I'll be the first to admit that I know very little about how to fix Linux when its broken. The problem is it breaks too often. But that's just for me.
The solution to the problems I'm having here is to do the sensible thing that I've been avoiding all these years. I should just dump dos BIOS and go all UEFI on the desktop's tower. That would eliminate any compatibility issues. In fact I think I know enough now to switch the current Windows 7 partitioning from MBR to GPT. I may or may not have to reinstall in order to accomplish that. And that's the issue stopping me from doing it. I don't want to have to reinstall Windows 7. I had enough trouble recovering to a former image.
You are right about the war over controlling the boot process. I've talked about it a few times in these forums. Linux grabs that position every chance it gets. Now with Windows 10 there is no chance for that to happen. Microsoft's revenge, if you will.
When you get to the point where I am at with this hobby, you have to expect the kind of problems I talk about here. I'm not just using computers. I'm experimenting with them. Experiments fail no matter how good you are at performing them. What happened in my case was unexpected and should not have happened in the first place. But it did. You know how that goes. Play with fire and you will eventually get burnt. It's wonderful to read that Linux is apparently easier to install than Windows, but I can assure you that all changes once it's installed. I can only speak for myself, obviously, but I've had fewer performance and compatibility issues in Windows than I have seen in any Linux OS I touched. I'm not talking about troubleshooting because I'll be the first to admit that I know very little about how to fix Linux when its broken. The problem is it breaks too often. But that's just for me.
The solution to the problems I'm having here is to do the sensible thing that I've been avoiding all these years. I should just dump dos BIOS and go all UEFI on the desktop's tower. That would eliminate any compatibility issues. In fact I think I know enough now to switch the current Windows 7 partitioning from MBR to GPT. I may or may not have to reinstall in order to accomplish that. And that's the issue stopping me from doing it. I don't want to have to reinstall Windows 7. I had enough trouble recovering to a former image.
Re: Way To Go - Finally
I think almost all computers, laptops, tablets, netbooks, and even cell phones all come with UEFI now.
Bios was supposed to die before 2020.
I just spoke with a lady who wrote a 350 page book using nothing but her cell phone, using a cloud based word processor.
But she could not edit what she wrote that way, had to use her laptop for editing, still working in the cloud though.
Then when she had it the way she wanted it, she still had to pay someone to format it for her, because her laptop was too slow, and the document not formatted the right way to allow for track changes and the like.
The person she paid to do the formatting used a rather nice desktop computer.
So, although more and more people are going mobile, which will cause the price of desktops to go up, and the availability for components to get harder, I don't think desktops will go away any time soon. At least not in my lifetime anyhow.
Windows XP was stable, but nothing made by Mickey$oft since then has been stable.
The ability to multi-boot is a great feature for those who want to try out different OS's.
But the majority of people work with only one OS and never consider the're or other alternatives out there.
Except they know their cell phones are not usually Windows, but something else that won't play windows games.
Sadly, that is about the extent of their knowledge about what they are using.
All I can say about your problems are, if you try to do unconventional things, expect unconventional problems.
Bios was supposed to die before 2020.
I just spoke with a lady who wrote a 350 page book using nothing but her cell phone, using a cloud based word processor.
But she could not edit what she wrote that way, had to use her laptop for editing, still working in the cloud though.
Then when she had it the way she wanted it, she still had to pay someone to format it for her, because her laptop was too slow, and the document not formatted the right way to allow for track changes and the like.
The person she paid to do the formatting used a rather nice desktop computer.
So, although more and more people are going mobile, which will cause the price of desktops to go up, and the availability for components to get harder, I don't think desktops will go away any time soon. At least not in my lifetime anyhow.
Windows XP was stable, but nothing made by Mickey$oft since then has been stable.
The ability to multi-boot is a great feature for those who want to try out different OS's.
But the majority of people work with only one OS and never consider the're or other alternatives out there.
Except they know their cell phones are not usually Windows, but something else that won't play windows games.
Sadly, that is about the extent of their knowledge about what they are using.
All I can say about your problems are, if you try to do unconventional things, expect unconventional problems.
Re: Way To Go - Finally
You are right about desktops' immortality. There still are Model-T Fords that people drive around too. My gut feeling, plus inputs from various articles on the subject, is that the traditional desktops you and I are using will morph into a device similar to what Microsoft is selling as a Surface computer. It's both a mobile device that looks like a tablet and can be unfolded to expose a keyboard to sit on your desktop. Other companies also make these hybrid devices and it's all geared for working in the Cloud. Once those devices evolve into something gamers can appreciate, it's good-by desktops. No more liquid cooled towers with pretty neon lights flashing into the night. LOL
My mission has been accomplished. I started out this thread about the time I decided I want to make USB memory sticks that will boot on both my computers. I happen to have one UEFI and one legacy BIOS computer which complicated the task tremendously. You made me aware of the fact that my scheme wasn't very original nor unique when you told me about the crowd of library kids who have been doing all this since forever. My project didn't turn out the way I expected, but I learned why it can't. Furthermore, I have overcome the obstacles associated with BIOS in my tower. I simply turned on the CSM (compatibility mode) feature to make the tower both UEFI and BIOS. So now I have a few ways to put Linux on a stick in such a way that it is usable on all my equipment.
I have a restless mind that sometimes thinks out of the box. That's why I will attempt doing unconventional things. What I started here really isn't unconventional. It's just not done often. But, it has been done for many years already. My life here in the control and command center can be made easier if the tower was pure UEFI. BIOS died a dozen years ago. You can't buy new computers that are only BIOS. Any computer purchased within the last dozen years or so is UEFI, and in many cases the BIOS emulation is activated. That emulation is part of the UEFI specification in fact. The only reason I'm using BIOS here is that Windows 7 was installed that way originally. It could have been installed UEFI, but I chose not to at the time. Well now I have reason to dump DOS and come up to this century's technology.
The original install disks for Windows 7 have a UEFI option. I discovered that when I was rebuilding the MBR a few days ago. So, in theory, all I need to do is reformat the hard drive to GPT and UEFI. Then reinstall Windows 7. That would be a version before the Service Packs updates so that I would have to recover that virgin system using an image of the current system. The current system is BIOS and I am not positive I can actually do the recovery. So that's something I need to know before I make a decision. But, then, I have a couple hard drives laying around that can easily be put into the tower. So, I can take out the Windows 7 disk and keep it safe while I attempt a UEFI installation on the new disk. Sounds simple, but then so did making Linux on a stick.
My mission has been accomplished. I started out this thread about the time I decided I want to make USB memory sticks that will boot on both my computers. I happen to have one UEFI and one legacy BIOS computer which complicated the task tremendously. You made me aware of the fact that my scheme wasn't very original nor unique when you told me about the crowd of library kids who have been doing all this since forever. My project didn't turn out the way I expected, but I learned why it can't. Furthermore, I have overcome the obstacles associated with BIOS in my tower. I simply turned on the CSM (compatibility mode) feature to make the tower both UEFI and BIOS. So now I have a few ways to put Linux on a stick in such a way that it is usable on all my equipment.
I have a restless mind that sometimes thinks out of the box. That's why I will attempt doing unconventional things. What I started here really isn't unconventional. It's just not done often. But, it has been done for many years already. My life here in the control and command center can be made easier if the tower was pure UEFI. BIOS died a dozen years ago. You can't buy new computers that are only BIOS. Any computer purchased within the last dozen years or so is UEFI, and in many cases the BIOS emulation is activated. That emulation is part of the UEFI specification in fact. The only reason I'm using BIOS here is that Windows 7 was installed that way originally. It could have been installed UEFI, but I chose not to at the time. Well now I have reason to dump DOS and come up to this century's technology.
The original install disks for Windows 7 have a UEFI option. I discovered that when I was rebuilding the MBR a few days ago. So, in theory, all I need to do is reformat the hard drive to GPT and UEFI. Then reinstall Windows 7. That would be a version before the Service Packs updates so that I would have to recover that virgin system using an image of the current system. The current system is BIOS and I am not positive I can actually do the recovery. So that's something I need to know before I make a decision. But, then, I have a couple hard drives laying around that can easily be put into the tower. So, I can take out the Windows 7 disk and keep it safe while I attempt a UEFI installation on the new disk. Sounds simple, but then so did making Linux on a stick.
Re: Way To Go - Finally
In a roundabout way, I had a problem similar to you trying make USB sticks, way back in the early Windows XP days.
Only in my case, I had bought two identical matching computers, technically one for me and one for the frau, right after we remodeled our Creve Coeur house. Both with two HD's in each, originally set up to back-up drive C to drive D at 3 a.m. every morning. We kept them this way for a few years with no problems.
Then I got gung ho and decided to make my computer a RAID array instead.
Went out and bought four new hard drives, all identical and the same size.
Learned the hard way, you could not boot from a RAID Array.
I messed around for a month trying to figure it out and never did.
Pressing the Ctrl I didn't work, or whatever it was. At least for me.
I had left the cover off of my computer so I could plug in my old pair of HDs when I needed to use the computer.
Needless to say, I quit messing with it. Took the four new HDs and stuck them in a box, planning on replaced the HDs in both of our computers with the larger size drives. Never got around to that either, hi hi.
My sister had a computer quite similar to my two, same case since it came from the same computer guy, but hers had different mobo and other cards in it. Dumb stuff like a TV reception and Radio receiver card.
I'm thinking it had Win98 in it too. I remember replacing her small HD with one out of the frau's computer and installing Windows XP Home. At the same time I put two of the new larger HDs in the frau's computer and reinstalled everything she had in it. Then set about to do the same thing with mine. So our two computers were back to being identical again, only with larger HDs.
I don't remember how I did it, but I used the small HD from my sisters computer to hold the WinXP OS, and put the four small HDs from the frau and my computer into her cabinet. I was able to make a four drive raid array, plus have a bootable drive in her computer somehow. Too long ago to remember the specifics. I do remember I did it in such a way that if a drive did go bad I could replace it and it would rebuild itself. It was also a software raid so I didn't have to worry about the controller going bad, which was one of my greatest fears. And as you know, that did happen to me with a newer external raid I owned a few years ago.
The only problem I had was, her computer was much slower than mine, so I normally used my computer and basically just used hers for data storage. But to do this I had to buy a Ethernet card for both of our computers. It was the cabled type. I used the RAID array much like we use a NAS today. Besides having a copy on my computer, I also placed a copy on the raid machine. And that's how I worked for many years. It wasn't until after I moved south that I wound up buying two new computers, one for Debi and one for myself, and then used those old computers simply for storage.
But now, they are all gone, although I still have all the HDs sitting here, even the old BIG HDs that don't fit later computers, hi hi. Think I'll toss them now too since they are useless, hi hi.
I never hear much said about raid anymore, but that could be because I'm not looking too!
Only in my case, I had bought two identical matching computers, technically one for me and one for the frau, right after we remodeled our Creve Coeur house. Both with two HD's in each, originally set up to back-up drive C to drive D at 3 a.m. every morning. We kept them this way for a few years with no problems.
Then I got gung ho and decided to make my computer a RAID array instead.
Went out and bought four new hard drives, all identical and the same size.
Learned the hard way, you could not boot from a RAID Array.
I messed around for a month trying to figure it out and never did.
Pressing the Ctrl I didn't work, or whatever it was. At least for me.
I had left the cover off of my computer so I could plug in my old pair of HDs when I needed to use the computer.
Needless to say, I quit messing with it. Took the four new HDs and stuck them in a box, planning on replaced the HDs in both of our computers with the larger size drives. Never got around to that either, hi hi.
My sister had a computer quite similar to my two, same case since it came from the same computer guy, but hers had different mobo and other cards in it. Dumb stuff like a TV reception and Radio receiver card.
I'm thinking it had Win98 in it too. I remember replacing her small HD with one out of the frau's computer and installing Windows XP Home. At the same time I put two of the new larger HDs in the frau's computer and reinstalled everything she had in it. Then set about to do the same thing with mine. So our two computers were back to being identical again, only with larger HDs.
I don't remember how I did it, but I used the small HD from my sisters computer to hold the WinXP OS, and put the four small HDs from the frau and my computer into her cabinet. I was able to make a four drive raid array, plus have a bootable drive in her computer somehow. Too long ago to remember the specifics. I do remember I did it in such a way that if a drive did go bad I could replace it and it would rebuild itself. It was also a software raid so I didn't have to worry about the controller going bad, which was one of my greatest fears. And as you know, that did happen to me with a newer external raid I owned a few years ago.
The only problem I had was, her computer was much slower than mine, so I normally used my computer and basically just used hers for data storage. But to do this I had to buy a Ethernet card for both of our computers. It was the cabled type. I used the RAID array much like we use a NAS today. Besides having a copy on my computer, I also placed a copy on the raid machine. And that's how I worked for many years. It wasn't until after I moved south that I wound up buying two new computers, one for Debi and one for myself, and then used those old computers simply for storage.
But now, they are all gone, although I still have all the HDs sitting here, even the old BIG HDs that don't fit later computers, hi hi. Think I'll toss them now too since they are useless, hi hi.
I never hear much said about raid anymore, but that could be because I'm not looking too!
Re: Way To Go - Finally
The only thing I've read about RAID drives lately is that whatever I was trying to do won''t work in a RAID environment. LOL. I thought about it in the past but there is no challenge to it other than setting it up. RAID is simply a bunch of hard drives synced to work together. It's a good thing in business scenarios if you can configure RAID to be hot swapable. That's what Mororola had on a few of the servers I saw but didn't actually work on. I got a call from a stranger one day who was in the server room looking at our array. The "dead" light was on and he just called to let me know. Told my manager and he pulled a drive out of a cabinet and we marched over to the server room. He yanked out the bad drive and plugged in the new one. Some lights blinked but that was it. Everything worked just fine.
Working with Linux is a project onto itself for me. I get awful bored sometimes playing games and visiting chat rooms. That's not really the kind of mental exercise I crave. Learning a whole new operating system does awaken some mental muscles that haven't been used in a dozen years. Fortunately this is a hobby and I am not required to learn anything. There is no pressure other than a desire to accomplish a goal. Thus I do get frustrated when things don't work and I don't have 1000 engineers in the building I could go to for advice.
The Linux tech forums are a nightmare. Although, I must say the last forum I told you about for Linux Mint happened to be curated by two guys who taok a real interest in what I was trying to do. The thread ended at seven pages and 2500 views. The topic drew a huge crowd but only four or five people actually posted anything. The reason is probably due to the esoteric nature of what we were discussing. I was shocked at what the two curators knew and were willing to share. We even got into Windows and Ubuntu, which seemed like an imposition in a Linux Mint forum. Well, I have dozens of articles on the subject, not to mention the personal interviewing you did on my behalf, and it was in this forum that I found the ultimate solution. As a bonus I learned about some shortcoming of this ASUS tower that i've been using for years.
The irony is that I'm a lot smarter than I was six weeks ago. I accomplished what I set out to do as far as Linux on a stick goes. I know you are interested in reading about my adventures, but that's it. Nobody else cares or would even understand. So. now I can do what I was able to do before my old laptop bit the dust. I'm even thinking about upgrading my tower to something modern. Then, I get this notice from Microsoft telling me my Win7 days are numbered. That's not news, but it is a harsh reality. I spent all this time learning new stuff and it's all going to be obsolete next January.
Working with Linux is a project onto itself for me. I get awful bored sometimes playing games and visiting chat rooms. That's not really the kind of mental exercise I crave. Learning a whole new operating system does awaken some mental muscles that haven't been used in a dozen years. Fortunately this is a hobby and I am not required to learn anything. There is no pressure other than a desire to accomplish a goal. Thus I do get frustrated when things don't work and I don't have 1000 engineers in the building I could go to for advice.
The Linux tech forums are a nightmare. Although, I must say the last forum I told you about for Linux Mint happened to be curated by two guys who taok a real interest in what I was trying to do. The thread ended at seven pages and 2500 views. The topic drew a huge crowd but only four or five people actually posted anything. The reason is probably due to the esoteric nature of what we were discussing. I was shocked at what the two curators knew and were willing to share. We even got into Windows and Ubuntu, which seemed like an imposition in a Linux Mint forum. Well, I have dozens of articles on the subject, not to mention the personal interviewing you did on my behalf, and it was in this forum that I found the ultimate solution. As a bonus I learned about some shortcoming of this ASUS tower that i've been using for years.
The irony is that I'm a lot smarter than I was six weeks ago. I accomplished what I set out to do as far as Linux on a stick goes. I know you are interested in reading about my adventures, but that's it. Nobody else cares or would even understand. So. now I can do what I was able to do before my old laptop bit the dust. I'm even thinking about upgrading my tower to something modern. Then, I get this notice from Microsoft telling me my Win7 days are numbered. That's not news, but it is a harsh reality. I spent all this time learning new stuff and it's all going to be obsolete next January.
Re: Way To Go - Finally
I really don't know much more about Linux than most users know about Windows.
I installed the Debian OS, and I use it daily to get my work done.
But I rarely open the hood to see what's underneath.
It does what I want it to do, fast, easy, and cheap, hi hi.
I have Linux Mint on another computer, I use it daily also for a couple of things.
What I like about it is, it lets me know when there is an upgrade, so I install it.
If no problems, when I get back to my Debian computer, I run an upgrade there too.
There is a background program I could load on the Debian machine to let me know if there is an upgrade available.
But like everything else I have running, each thing uses up some of the resources.
I installed the Debian OS, and I use it daily to get my work done.
But I rarely open the hood to see what's underneath.
It does what I want it to do, fast, easy, and cheap, hi hi.
I have Linux Mint on another computer, I use it daily also for a couple of things.
What I like about it is, it lets me know when there is an upgrade, so I install it.
If no problems, when I get back to my Debian computer, I run an upgrade there too.
There is a background program I could load on the Debian machine to let me know if there is an upgrade available.
But like everything else I have running, each thing uses up some of the resources.
Re: Way To Go - Finally
Most, but not all, of the Linux distros put notifications on the desktop when updates are available. Some improvements to the process have been introduced in the time I've been using Linux. For example, Ubuntu has a service that will update the kernel automatically. No intervention on my part is needed. What they don't tell you is that it slows down the initial opening of the desktop. And, I generally check for updates manually the first thing. Now I have to wait for the "automatic" kernel updates to complete first. That generally takes several minutes. Linux Mint now will clean out your old kernels automatically. I went through a lot of pain figuring out how to remove old kernels. You would think Synaptic package manager would make it easy, but it doesn't. Searching for installed kernels is often futile. The "--purge" option one could append to the autoremove command no longer works in Ubuntu. I finally found a shell script somebody wrote that will search and destroy any old kernels. LOL
This just adds to my reasons why Linux isn't my first choice of OS. No two are the same and even if I stayed with one it is a project to perform what should be simple tasks. Now, if I just minded my own business and surfed the web and played solitaire, I'd have no problems. But, I'm not that kind of guy.
And, just to be fair, Windows updates can be a problem. I don't see the ones they write about in Windows 10 which is a bit remarkable considering the nature of the beast being experimental. Things were very slow and laborious until I supercharged my memory. Now Windows 10 updates as well as anybody else's OS. Windows 7 gave me a slight challenge when I had to rebuild the system earlier this week. Their monthly security update would not install. It turns out some previous update needed to be installed first, and that one would not install for the same reason. This happened because I had to recover the system to it's state last December, meaning no updates were installed since then. How to find which ones are missing is truly impossible. Somebody was selling software to do just that, but they went out of business a couple years ago. I then got a hint. My update settings were not set to automatic and let Microsoft take control. Instead I set it up to notify me and I'll decide what updates I want or don't want. That works fine until you have to restore the system as I did. So, I changed the setting to automatic and rebooted. It installed a few missing updates and all is well again in Paradise. Could they have done that automatically for me? Yes, of course. But they are too busy working on Windows 10 now and days to pay any attention to us folks suck in the last decade's software.
This just adds to my reasons why Linux isn't my first choice of OS. No two are the same and even if I stayed with one it is a project to perform what should be simple tasks. Now, if I just minded my own business and surfed the web and played solitaire, I'd have no problems. But, I'm not that kind of guy.
And, just to be fair, Windows updates can be a problem. I don't see the ones they write about in Windows 10 which is a bit remarkable considering the nature of the beast being experimental. Things were very slow and laborious until I supercharged my memory. Now Windows 10 updates as well as anybody else's OS. Windows 7 gave me a slight challenge when I had to rebuild the system earlier this week. Their monthly security update would not install. It turns out some previous update needed to be installed first, and that one would not install for the same reason. This happened because I had to recover the system to it's state last December, meaning no updates were installed since then. How to find which ones are missing is truly impossible. Somebody was selling software to do just that, but they went out of business a couple years ago. I then got a hint. My update settings were not set to automatic and let Microsoft take control. Instead I set it up to notify me and I'll decide what updates I want or don't want. That works fine until you have to restore the system as I did. So, I changed the setting to automatic and rebooted. It installed a few missing updates and all is well again in Paradise. Could they have done that automatically for me? Yes, of course. But they are too busy working on Windows 10 now and days to pay any attention to us folks suck in the last decade's software.
Re: Way To Go - Finally
One Choice vs Many Choices, is where you are getting tripped up there Yogi.
Windows XP does not work like Windows 7, or like Windows 10.
Ubuntu does not work like Red Hat, nor like BSD, nor like Suse, nor like Debian, etc.
With Windows you are stuck with the only OS they offer, take it or leave it.
But with GNU/Linux you have numerous choices, and NO they do not work like each other.
That's the Whole Point, you have certain options in each, but not those same options in all of them.
There are probably close to 500 if not a 1000 different choices in desktops for Linux systems.
How many does Windows offer? One, perhaps with a couple of options.
Although they are starting to do and add things more like Linux than Windows.
Interesting how you mentioned the Linux Kernel changes so often.
Have you looked at how many times the NT Kernel has changed?
Also, every little change in Windows requires a reboot.
In Linux you rarely have to reboot, not even with kernel changes now.
Isn't it amazing how all the cars are different, but still have some things the same.
They did away with the Starter Pedal to the right of the gas pedal.
They did away with the high-beam button on the floor.
And more recently, they decided to put the engine sideways and do away with the drive train.
But some things are still alike. They all have a steering wheel, brake and gas pedals, and a shifter.
They have made the passenger compartment safer, while making the cars themselves more hazardous.
Yet people run out and buy them, in whatever flavor they prefer.
Windows XP does not work like Windows 7, or like Windows 10.
Ubuntu does not work like Red Hat, nor like BSD, nor like Suse, nor like Debian, etc.
With Windows you are stuck with the only OS they offer, take it or leave it.
But with GNU/Linux you have numerous choices, and NO they do not work like each other.
That's the Whole Point, you have certain options in each, but not those same options in all of them.
There are probably close to 500 if not a 1000 different choices in desktops for Linux systems.
How many does Windows offer? One, perhaps with a couple of options.
Although they are starting to do and add things more like Linux than Windows.
Interesting how you mentioned the Linux Kernel changes so often.
Have you looked at how many times the NT Kernel has changed?
Also, every little change in Windows requires a reboot.
In Linux you rarely have to reboot, not even with kernel changes now.
Isn't it amazing how all the cars are different, but still have some things the same.
They did away with the Starter Pedal to the right of the gas pedal.
They did away with the high-beam button on the floor.
And more recently, they decided to put the engine sideways and do away with the drive train.
But some things are still alike. They all have a steering wheel, brake and gas pedals, and a shifter.
They have made the passenger compartment safer, while making the cars themselves more hazardous.
Yet people run out and buy them, in whatever flavor they prefer.
Re: Way To Go - Finally
The Linux kernel is a thing of beauty, if you can appreciate it's shortcomings. I have to say the same about the Windows kernel but to be honest I don't know when it changes or gets updated. It's done seamlessly behind the scenes and it works every freaking time. Plus, they don't accumulate and take up disk or USB memory space that is wasted. You mentioned a few times in the past how you don't have to reboot after a Linux kernel update. I don't know how to explain that because on all the Linux OS's I've tested a reboot is required after every kernel update. New kernel modules will update the initramfs file in the boot directory, and is only read during a boot cycle. If you do not reboot, you do not see the updates. Same as Windows actually. Some Linux updates do not require a reboot. Again, that's no different than Windows. All I can imagine to explain not needing to reboot is that Debian is in a universe of it's own. Maybe I should try it out some day.
Good as the linux kernel might be, it's everything else about Linux that makes it a problem operating system. You are not the first to compare the customization possibilities in Linux against those of Windows. It has to do with FOSS allowing for such things. I find all those choices of desktops to be chaotic and confusing. That's not to say I'm perfectly happy with the Windows desktop, but that does not change for ten years at a time, or whatever the new product support cycle happens to be. And, you know, change is good. All those choices makes it exciting to use Linux. I'll grant you that. But, all those choices merely generate more opportunities for failures. Trying to find patches and fixes for Linux failures requires degrees in computer science, forensics, psychology, critical thinking, and quantum physics (where the state of any given component cannot be determined). Other than that, I love to use Linux.
Arguing about Linux vs Windows is exactly like arguing about Ford vs General Motors. It's all about personal preferences. You often tell me about the order and logic in your life. After my experience with Linux the past month or two, I have to seriously question the logic and order in any given Linux distro. I know your main reason for using Linux is economic, and that is the hands down right solution for you. For us guys with inquiring minds, not so much.
Good as the linux kernel might be, it's everything else about Linux that makes it a problem operating system. You are not the first to compare the customization possibilities in Linux against those of Windows. It has to do with FOSS allowing for such things. I find all those choices of desktops to be chaotic and confusing. That's not to say I'm perfectly happy with the Windows desktop, but that does not change for ten years at a time, or whatever the new product support cycle happens to be. And, you know, change is good. All those choices makes it exciting to use Linux. I'll grant you that. But, all those choices merely generate more opportunities for failures. Trying to find patches and fixes for Linux failures requires degrees in computer science, forensics, psychology, critical thinking, and quantum physics (where the state of any given component cannot be determined). Other than that, I love to use Linux.
Arguing about Linux vs Windows is exactly like arguing about Ford vs General Motors. It's all about personal preferences. You often tell me about the order and logic in your life. After my experience with Linux the past month or two, I have to seriously question the logic and order in any given Linux distro. I know your main reason for using Linux is economic, and that is the hands down right solution for you. For us guys with inquiring minds, not so much.