Way To Go - Finally

[yogi]

I'm fairly confident that I found the answer to how does one go about making a portable installation of Linux on a USB memory stick. In a nutshell, simply copy a working version of the desired OS onto the target memory stick. Then copy the contents of the EFI partition from the HDD onto the USB stick. Make a few minor tweaks and you're done. The details for doing that are as follows:

Post 5: Ubuntu to go? -- UEFI Should be easy

Post 5 only contains some advice for going on experimenting by yourself. I've never tried it yet. Sorry, I'm too busy. But I guess it should be easy.

The way for generating an "Ubuntu to go", that is a clone of your working system (on HDD) that entirely resides on usb key but is portable and UEFI bootable, is a variant on the present procedure.

Instead of installing a new system, you just copy to the flash drive the contents of all the system partitions in your internal HDD. This replaces steps B and C in the post (3) above. For example, if your "internal" Ubuntu is in two partitions: "/" and "home" you just make two analogous partitions in your flash drive and copy the contents to them. No need that the target partitions have the same size as the original ones (provided that you have enough space for copying everything to them).

Be careful about the owners of the files: do not copy the home dir as root. To do the copying you have
to run your liveCD, so that your HDD partitions are not mounted.

The contents of the EFI partition are copied as above: post 3, D.

*D: Tweak the usb flash drive*
(1) You are now in your working main system. Plug in the target drive with the Ubuntu installation. Find out its partition names /dev/sdxy. Find out the UUIDs of sdx1 (EFI) sdx2 (root) and sdx3 (swap) with gparted (right click on partition and select "information") or "sudo blkid /dev/sdxy" and write them down.

(2) The root partition of your target drive should have been automatically mounted when you have plugged in the flash drive. Mount the EFI partition of the target drive:
Code:
sudo mkdir /mnt/efi
sudo mount /dev/sdx1 /mnt/efi

(3) keeping the UUID of sdx1 (EFI) and sdx2 (partition root in target drive) in a sheet of paper or in the clipboard produce the crucial text file grub.cfg ("CGC" hereafter) opening your text editor as root (e.g. sudo leafpad for a Lubuntu user, sudo gedit, etc.). You should produce a text file containing exactly the following three lines, but you have to replace the expression between "<>" with the UUID of your EFI partition in your target drive:
Code:
search.fs_uuid <YOUR EFI UUID in target flash drive> root hd1,gpt2
set prefix=($root)'/boot/grub'
configfile $prefix/grub.cfg
Save as grub.cfg.

Again: use gedit or leafpad as you please, but open your editor as root and save as root (root must be the owner of the file) somewhere in your home directory.

(4) CAREFUL HERE -- the contents of your own EFI partition might differ from one install to another, so I am going to give you the files that you must have in the EFI partition of the target drive at the end of the job. You can also copy and paste the list of commands I produce below.
Some of these files MIGHT be redundant, in efi/Boot or in efi/EFI/Boot. No harm. All of these files must be copied from a working install of Ubuntu in your HDD: you can't do this from a live usb.

Supposing that the grub.cfg you have generated in (3) is in your current directory and is called "grub.cfg", that you have already made the dirs /mnt and /mnt/efi and that your EFI partition in the flash drive is sdx1, this is the list of commands you need in order to rebuild the above structure. If you have already mounted your efi partition in the target drive on /mnt/efi, just skip over the first command in the list.

Code:
sudo mnt /dev/sdx1 /mnt/efi
sudo mkdir /mnt/efi/Boot
sudo mkdir /mnt/efi/ubuntu
sudo mkdir /mnt/efi/EFI
sudo mkdir /mnt/efi/EFI/Boot
sudo mkdir /mnt/efi/EFI/ubuntu
sudo mkdir /mnt/efi/EFI/ubuntu/fw
sudo cp /boot/efi/EFI/Boot/bootx64.efi /mnt/efi/Boot/
sudo cp /boot/efi/EFI/Boot/bootx64.efi.grub /mnt/efi/Boot/
sudo cp grub.cfg /mnt/efi/Boot/
sudo cp grub.cfg /mnt/efi/EFI/Boot/
sudo cp /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu/grubx64.efi /mnt/efi/Boot/
sudo cp /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu/MokManager.efi /mnt/efi/Boot/
sudo cp /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu/shimx64.efi /mnt/efi/ubuntu/
sudo cp grub.cfg /mnt/efi/ubuntu/
sudo cp /boot/efi/EFI/Boot/bootx64.efi /mnt/efi/EFI/Boot/
sudo cp /boot/efi/EFI/Boot/bootx64.efi.grub /mnt/efi/EFI/Boot/
sudo cp /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu/grubx64.efi /mnt/efi/EFI/Boot/
sudo cp /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu/MokManager.efi /mnt/efi/EFI/Boot/
sudo cp /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu/fwupx64.efi /mnt/efi/EFI/ubuntu/
sudo cp grub.cfg /mnt/efi/EFI/ubuntu/
sudo cp /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu/grubx64.efi /mnt/efi/EFI/ubuntu/
sudo cp /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu/MokManager.efi /mnt/efi/EFI/ubuntu/
sudo cp /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu/shimx64.efi /mnt/efi/EFI/ubuntu/
sudo umount /mnt/efi

You can make a bash file from the commands above (in this case, run it as root) or add a semicolon and a backslash at the end of each one but the last one and run it from terminal as a single very long command. Or you can copy and paste the commands one by one.

(5) in etc/fstab of the root partition of the target flash drive, replace the UEFI boot UUID with the UUID of sdx1 (if you've lost it, find it out with sudo blkid /dev/sdx1). You have to do this for the file etc/fstab of your flash drive's root partition, which should be mounted in /media/... and NOT for the /etc/fstab of your running system (!!)

The UUID of your root partition should already be correct in the flash drive's fstab: just check.
While you are tweaking fstab add noatime option to root partition
Code:
ext4 noatime,errors=remount-ro 0 1
Check the swap file in fstab; if it lists a swapfile from your HDD (normally sda) replace that UUID with the UUID of your flash drive swap file. (That is, unless you wish to use your flash drive only in the PC you are now using, in which case it may be convenient to use the HDD swap file.)

Now you can remove journaling from the flash drive root partition (to reduce wear). From terminal write:
Code:
sudo tune2fs -O ^has_journal /dev/sdxy

Replace sdxy with the device name of your root partition in the flash drive. sdxy should normally be sdb2, unless you have more than one HDD or you have another flash drive or ext. HDD plugged in.

(6) If you want to minimize the use of swap file, change the system swappiness value: in the root partition of your target flash drive edit etc/sysctl.conf as root. Then, change or add this line to the file:
Code:
vm.swappiness = 0
(You could also change the value while your system will be running: from terminal sysctl vm.swappiness=0)
(cat /proc/sys/vm/swappiness from terminal to find out current swappiness value *in your running OS*)
If you are low on RAM it is better to keep swappiness to 60 or 50.

After every update, your grub will also give you the option to start all the operating systems that are present in your HDD; if you are running your OS from another computer, just do not choose those options in the grub menu.

In addition to this, you have to modify your /boot/grub/menu.lst replacing the UUID of the root partition in your HDD with the UUID of the root partition in your flash drive.

Also remember to tweak the /etc/fstab in the root partition of your usb drive so that it points to the copies of the Ubuntu system partitions on your usb drive.

After the first boot into your flash drive clone, I guess you had better run update-grub.

Remember that your grub, after every update, will also give you the option to start all the operating systems that are present in your HDD; if you will later run your OS in another computer, just remember not to choose those options.

Last edited by Halbarad; October 2nd, 2016 at 12:43 PM.
All in all, Linux is better.
https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2338836

Simple as that.

Like the author of the article, I have not done it yet. I may never do it; not because I am too busy with other things. As I've noted a few times in the past, Linux just isn't worth the trouble.

[yogi]

I found another method to make a portable Linux distribution on a USB memory stick. This version does not refer to EFI or UEFI at all. It doesn't say anything about BIOS either. It's presented just as a method of installation, supposedly complete in all aspects. This is a beautiful way to do it, should it actually work. A method as presented below can be done by any average library kid who knows what Linux is. The example uses Lubuntu, as do many of the examples I've read.

I think I'll be trying this using Lubuntu. I'll do it on the BIOS/MBR tower first. If that boots into the UEFI laptop, then I'm done. If not, I'll make a second attempt installing it from the laptop with the risk of corrupting the Windows UEFI bootloader.

How to Install Linux OS on USB Drive and Run it On Any PC

SOURCE: https://www.tecmint.com/install-linux-os-on-usb-drive/
Ever thought of using any computer which is not yours, with all your personal stuff and configuration? It is possible with any Linux distribution. Yes! You can use your own, customized Linux OS on any machine with just an USB drive.
Read Also: How to Install CentOS 7 in a USB Drive
This tutorial is all about installing Latest Linux OS on your pen-drive ( fully reconfigurable personalized OS, NOT just a Live USB ), customize it, and use it on any PC you have an access to. Here I am using Lubuntu 18.04 Bionic beaver for this tutorial (but, you can use any Linux distribution). So let’s gets started..
Requirements:
1. One Pendrive 4GB or More (Let’s call it as Main USB drive/Pendrive).
2. One more Pen drive or DVD disk to use as bootable Linux installation media.
3. Linux OS ISO file, for example Lubuntu 18.04.
4. One PC (Don’t worry, there will not be any effect on that PC).
TIP: Use 32 bit Linux OS to make it compatible with any available PC.
That’s it! Go, and collect all of these. It’s time to do something new.
Step 1: Create Bootable Linux Installation Media
Use your Linux ISO image file to create a bootable USB installation media. You can use any software like Unetbootin, Gnome Disk Utility, Yumi Multi Boot, xboot, Live USB Creator etc. to create bootable usb with the help of ISO image file.
Alternatively you can use dvd disk by writing that ISO image to it (but that is the old school method).
Step 2: Create Partitions On Main USB Drive
You have to make two partitions on your Main USB drive using Gparted or Gnome Disk Utility, etc.
• Root partition of format ext4 of size according to your use.
• Optionally you can use rest of the space as a FAT partition for using it as a normal USB drive.
I am having 16GB USB drive and I have created one root partition of 5GB and using rest 11GB as normal FAT partition. So my 16 GB USB drive is converted to 11GB drive for normal use on any PC. Sounds good!!!
This step you can do while installing Linux also, but it will be very complex while installing Operating System’s like Arch Linux.
Once you have created required partitions on Main USB drive. Now take a deep breath because it’s time to go for Linux installation section.

Step 3: Install Linux on USB Drive
1. First boot Linux OS (Lubuntu 18.04) from your bootable installation media and launch installation application from live session. Live session of Lubuntu 18.04 will look like this
,,,

2. Installer welcome screen will appear, select Language there and hit Continue.
3. Select Keyboard Layout and continue…
4. Select Wifi internet if you want to update Lubuntu while installation. I will skip it..
5. Select Installation Type and Third party installation as per your choice and go to next..
6. Here select Something Else Option (It is Mandatory) and go to next…
7. This is an an Important step, here you need to find out where your Main USB drive is mounted.

In my case /dev/sda is internal hard disk of the PC and I am using /dev/sdb is USB Lubuntu Installation media from where this live session is booted.
And /dev/sdc is my Main USB drive where I want to install my Linux system and where I have made two partition in step number 2. If you have skipped step 2, you can also make partitions in this window.
First change mount point of First partition on this Main USB drive to ROOT (i.e. “ / ”). And as shown in second red square select bootloader installation device as the Main USB drive.
In my case it is /dev/sdc. This is the most important step in this tutorial. If it is not done correctly your system will boot only on the current PC you are using, which is exactly opposite of your motivation to follow this tutorial.
Once it is completed, double check it and hit continue. You will get a small window showing devices and drive which will be affected.
8. Make sure that the device and drives shown on this window are of your Main USB drive, which is in my case /dev/sdc. Hit continue…
9. Now select your Region and hit Continue…
10. Add username, password and hostname etc…
11. Let the installation finish..
12. After completing installation hit restart and remove your installation media and press Enter.
13. Congratulations, you have successfully installed your own Linux OS on your pen drive to use it on any PC. Now you can connect USB drive to any PC and start your system on that PC by simply selecting boot from usb option while booting.

Step 4: Customize Lubuntu System
Now it’s time for fun. Just boot your system on any PC and start customizing. You can install any softwares you want. You can change Themes, Icon themes, install docker.
You can add and store your online accounts on it. Install / modify / customize whatever you want. All the changes will be permanent. They will not change or reset after rebooting or booting on other PCs.
Following figure shows my customized Lubuntu 18.04.

…

The main advantage of this method is you can use your personal stuff, your online accounts securely on any PC. You can even do secure online transactions as well on any available PC.
I hope it will be helpful for you, if you have questions regarding this article, please feel free to ask in the comment section below.

[Kellemora]

WOW, you've been busy.
Looks like you may have found the method I mentioned in my previous response before this one.
I sure hope it works for you, and you find the time to try it out.
My hat's off to you Yogi!

[yogi]

I tried the second method this morning, but didn't have a good feeling about it from the get-go. I made the attempt simply because it was a lot easier to do. It failed miserably. The laptop did recognize the FAT32 partition but since there were no EFI boot instructions in there, it defaulted back to the Windows bootloader. The tower, likewise would not boot. That particular failure surprised me.

One of the greater challenges with EFI is to have the ability to view and manipulate the content of the required EFI partition. All the boot information is in there which makes having difficulty getting to it understandable. The Windows software to look at it won't install on my PC. The Linux efibootmgr is basically a command line tool that needs man pages to understand. Well I found some explanations for the commands but It didn't make sense to me at this stage of my understanding. So, basically I have no tools to view what is in that EFI partition. Forfunately, the normal mount command will get me in there. When I finally was able to see the content of that FAT32 EFI partition, I was amazed. A few directories regarding passwords were present, but nothing else. This explains why the tower would not boot into the memory stick; no GRUB. So, now I'm scratching my head wondering where in Hell did Lubuntu put the GRUB I told it to put into the FAt32 partition. I am certain it wanted to put it in the Windows 7 bootloader, but the tower is MBR, not UEFI, so that there is no bootmanager for the Linux installer to corrupt. Well, not one as there is on a UEFI machine. I came to the conclusion that if I tried to create another stick using the laptop, Lubuntu would corrupt the Windows 10 bootloader just like it's sister Ubuntu. So I did not feel like proving what I already reasoned to be a disaster in the making.

That leaves me with tthe first method in this post, the one never tried by the author of the Wiki from which I extracted the method. His article was about how to install UEFI Linux on a permanent hard drive, attached or built in. Only after he describes that in detail does he pen a small write-up speculating that the same approach should work for a portable USB pendrive. It should, but he never tried it. At least this guy was honest about it. The person writing the second method did so with screenshots and authoritative instructions. I'm guessing he never did it because it would fail for him too. It might work in an MBR environment, but it certainly is missing everything it takes to make the USB UEFI compatible. Most of all the resulting USB installed Linux could not be portable.

I love technical stuff, as you might be able to tell by now. However logical that first method seems, it is a huge amount of effort requiring a lot of pre-knowledge and skill in advance of the attempt. It's not for the faint of heart, and can't be what everybody has been telling you they are doing. I'm not sure when, or if, I'll attempt it. As I pointed out earlier, several times, it's not worth the effort. I don't want to hand build operating systems on a stick. I just want something that works. And we both know what that is at the moment.

[Kellemora]

Well, tomorrow is Tuesday and I'll be back at the library for at least two hours.
I have five things to research which I could not find anything on-line about, and I know it is in the library research section since I've looked up similar things before.
The frau is getting a pedicure before going to lounge on the fancy stuff at Planet Fitness.
If I get done early at the library, I run over there myself to do their 30 minute workout.
I keep hoping someone there will know something or actually show me how they make a USB Stick.

[yogi]

I hope you have a productive day at the library and fitness center. Making a USB stick is easy. Making a USB stick that is portable and EFi is, to the best of my knowledge, hypothetical. A clear explanation of how to do it would be marvelous, but the proof of the pudding would be in the ... mmm ... boot process. LOL Go ahead and have that bithead make a USB in your presence at the library. Pay him if you have to. I'll reimburse you. But, as of this moment, I doubt that you will be able to run that USB from any computer in your house unless, and only unless, it is a liveOS version (with or without persistence); not what I'm looking for. If you can get somebody to make a USB stick with a fully functional and EFI bootable OS, I might even pay you double.


I'm making headway. I think I know enough at the moment to be able to create this theoretical USB OS. I have two choices, each of which is a huge pain. One is to do the manual copying I described. The other is to disassemble the laptop, remove the HDD, and go from there. I'm not sure either one of those will actually work, but I don't see any other reasonable choices at the moment.

[Kellemora]

I keep thinking the reason for the LIVE OS first is to make the USB bootable.

On the other message I posted a site that shows how to install LIVE OSs as well as INSTALL OSs.
Perhaps you've seen it perhaps not, but here is the link again.
https://www.pendrivelinux.com/

I'll be heading up to the library in about an hour. I hope someone is there I can talk to that knows something, hi hi.

[yogi]

Thank you for that link. They are offering two programs that I have heard of and used in the past: YUMI - Multiboot USB Creator, and Universal USB Installer. Yumi is actually the Universal USB Installer with the option to put multiple OS's on one USB. I posted about what happened when I did that. It gave me two out of three in the regular menu, and then decided to call one of the OS's a Linux tool, thus burying it in a submenu. The bottom line is that both these programs do what Etcher, Rufus and Unetbootin do, that is to say, create a LIVE USB version of the OS with persistence. It looks good and works well as far as it goes, but I am looking for more than what a liveUSB can do.

You make a great observation when you speculate that the reason to have a liveOS present on a USB stick is to make it bootable on any computer. I thought exactly the same thing when I first read about it. It sounds like it should work, and it does, but only for the liveOS. I have yet to get such a configuration to boot a workingOS properly. UEFI will allow a liveOS image to boot, but the liveOS bootloader (GRUB) cannot be altered because it's fundamentally a read-only CD/DVD. Thus, I can't get the liveOS GRUB to point to the workingOS which is installed on a separate partition. While a liveOS works really well for most purposes, I've come to the conclusion it cannot be used to boot into an EFI workingOS.

[Kellemora]

Hi Yogi

I had to go back to the library at 5:30 to meet one of the kids who makes his own.

He took me to the website he used to make his to show me.
He used the UEFI Hybrid Install instructions.
This way his stick boots both on his Bios Laptop and on the UEFI library computers.
If you have a problem, also read rEFInd Method, this will fix any problems.

After I got home I jumped to the website to get the link for you.

https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=287353

I also read it to see if it said anything different, and this looks like the instructions the Partition #3 guy told me, but didn't explain it exactly this way to me.

I hope this time it works for you!

[yogi]

To say I am grateful for all the effort you put into my pet project would be a gross understatement. It is perfectly clear to me that this time you struck the mother-lode of gold; nay, kryptonite. LOL I literally nearly came to tears as I read through the methods in that link. The lords of the Internet revealed to me in a flash of insight that I was not totally crazy nor an imbecile after all. I finally saw the light and was blinded by it.

I'd say that I might have saved a lot of time and aggravation if I read that tutorial a month ago. But, the truth in the matter is that I would not have understood half of what is discussed therein back then. Every issue I ever ran into, and a few I only suspected to exist, was addressed in the tutorial. Ubuntu's installer IS flawed. He even went into the conflict of Linux Mint calling itself Ubuntu and what to do about it. I had no idea there were EFI bootloaders that can be installed from the Ubuntu repositories. And, if I don't like that, there is a generic one that's easy peasy to install. I was right about everything, but only because I burned as I learned. All I needed was a few simple (or not so simple) answers, and this article provided them all.

That's not to say all my concerns have been addressed. LOL The tutorial is about Linux Mint which is notorious for not getting along with nVidia. Fortunately, if done right, it can be installed to circumvent the conflict in video drivers built into Mint. At the moment that is a minor and secondary issue, but one not spoken of in the tutorial. Needless to say I have not tried any of the methods yet. A few pressing issues in the real world must be taken care of before I can set aside time to experiment once again. Then there is the road trip I must take this weekend and may not have an opportunity to dive into installing Linux on a stick until next week. We will see how that goes. In any event, I am now very confident that my original objective can be accomplished. I might even be able to set up a hybrid boot that can use both BIOS and UEFI. I think I have all the pieces to do that. It's not as simple as it used to be, but it's also not the nightmare I thought it was. And, it is all a little closer to being done thanks to you, Gary.

[Kellemora]

I don't see much different in these instructions than I have others I've looked at, except for the one guy who mentioned using partition #3, which I also ran across elsewhere but never could find it again.

Since you've been delving into it, it looks like you picked up a clue I would not have seen.

In a way, this dilemma reminds me of my real estate days.
There were many guru's teaching the ins and outs of real estate investing, buying, renovating, and selling.
Each and every one had their own angle they used, and every single one of them pooh poohed poor old Curdled Shits, er I mean Carlton Sheets.
I happen to run into him at a seminar down in Florida and we got to talking. I liked the guy, he had great wisdom, although I never bought any of his materials, first because of others always bad mouthing him, and then because I didn't use his Schtick to procure my properties. Remember, he was the No Money Down guy. I'll get back to him in a second.

When my son decided to come aboard, I took him to at least eight of the better seminars, so he understood as much as he could about the business, and from each of their touted angles to do things.
And naturally we bought each and every course they offered for my son to read and study up on.
The last seminar was the one in Florida where I met with Curdled Shits after our week long session and we went out to dinner. He treated, and at a fancier place than we could afford to go.
We had a nice peaceful dinner, and did not talk about real estate dealing at all until after dinner was over.
My son's big mouth came open and out came, you don't have a very good reputation.
Carlton smiled and said to him, no I suppose I do not, not among my competitors anyhow. What I would have really liked to push about my program and systems was already overused and burned out.
Let me take car of the tab here, get something from my car, and meet you back in the lounge in five minutes.
First thing my son said when Carlton came in and sat down with a big black case was, we are not buying anything.
Mr. Sheets said, great, I'm not selling anything. And handed my son one of his books, the main big thick one.
Your dad has taken you to several seminars and training classes, did you find any of them complete, or did you learn something new at each one that you didn't learn from the others.
My son said, we learned something really great and useful at each one, but no none of them taught the same things.
Then Carlton said, tell me something you learned at the first one you attended.
My son obliged. Carlton said turn to page 33. There was that entire system laid out in his book.
Then he asked about what he learned at the second one. Turn to page 72.
This went on for about 20 more minutes. Each and every thing my son learned at the seminars orally, was right there written down for reference in Carlton's book. And in much greater detail. Even the sneaky little tricks they never mention at a seminar unless you sign up for their more expensive course.
There it all was in black and white, he didn't leave anything out, and that was just the main book.
He had several other books that covered some things in great detail, including all the tricks.
Plus every type of form you would ever need.
Ironically, his system sold for half the price of any other blow-hard's system.
But as I said, he said he was not selling anything to us.
He not only gave my son that book, but pulled three more out of his case, and gave them to him as a gift.
He said I want you to study my material and in one month give me a call and tell me if you can find anything you learned elsewhere missing from my system. Also tell me what new things you learned from my course that you did not learn anywhere else.
My son did this, I read the whole course also and learned some things I didn't know too. I found nothing missing.
My son gave him the phone call he requested, and as another gift for him from Mr. Sheets, he sent my son his entire course with CDs, audio tapes, even a picture book showing simple changes to houses that made them look like a million bucks for little to know cost. It was his Curb Appeal book that normally sold for big bucks too.
His only request was to not downplay his material, and stand up for him against those who bad mouth him.
After my son was in the business for about six months and had used several of the little tricks he learned from those books, he made it a point to get others in the industry to buy Mr. Sheets course, even if they didn't like the name of the course. Everything anyone else teaches is in there, and was before they ever jumped on the bandwagon.

My only point about this is, after going to so many websites and talking to so many kids about how they make their USB Sticks, and never getting the whole picture. I'm hoping that latest link I sent you that I was told about is the one that has the winning information to make them work for you.

[yogi]

I can assure you that there are some parallels in your story about Carlton Sheets and my experiences trying to create USB based operating systems. For one thing Linux is not highly ranked in my mind's opinion. It wasn't before I started this investigation and it's no higher up the ladder now. If anything, I now have more reasons to cite the shortcomings of Linux than I did previously because I'm better educated on the subject.

The goal is to create a very specific type of OS, and I think I can do that now. The underlying motive behind the goal, however, was a need to exercise my learning skills. I don't get to do much of that in my retirement. This project provided amply opportunity to learn new things and in that regard your assistance was priceless.

Much of the information you were able to provide from your personal interviews was incomplete. I knew early on there would be a translation problem, but there was more to complicate issues than merely losing details in word of mouth communications. Obviously, now, there is more than one way to accomplish what I intend to do and there was no way to discern which method any of your informants was talking about. Trying to fill in the blanks via tech forums is an exercise in futility. Rarely will anyone posting online have needs and circumstances identical to mine. Thus the answers might be in the ballpark, but hardly anything significant can be gleaned from reading something that is close but not exact. Then, too, the problem of trusting what is being read. Some of the articles written for respected magazines were outright false. The theory was correct, but it soon became obvious to me that some of the pros never actually tried to do what they claimed was possible.

It's clear to me that what I went through didn't just come up last month. pbear, a Level 7 Linux Mint master, has a ton of experience with Linux in general and enough to see the nature of the problem clearly. Not only does he understand what is required to accomplish the goal, he has alternate methods to cover every possible circumstance. And, when he could not provide all the details, he gave credible references to people who could. pbear's tutorial is truly a one source complete solution to creating OS's installed on USB memory, but you cannot fully appreciate that unless you have tried to do it on your own and failed. Failing, in this case, takes a good deal of knowledge the average computer user does not have. People without that knowledge wouldn't even understand what the hell it is I'm trying to do.

I'll be posting more about my adventures after I've attempted to implement some or all of the solutions in that article. If I'm successful, I'm going to want your mailing address so that I can send you a small token of my appreciation for your help. Not sure when I'll get to it again, but it won't be long.

[Kellemora]

Have you tried to talk with any young teens lately?
I know I'm getting a little hard of hearing, not loudness wise, but understanding words when others are talking.
Nevertheless, these kids don't speak the kind of English you and I know and understand.
They shorten most long words down to a few letters or have alternate words they use that I don't know what they mean until I ask.
Take the USB stick for example: Each kid calls it something else, and sometimes use other names they know means they have it set up a certain way. We know Thumb Drive, Pen Drive, and a couple others. To me a USB stick is not an SD card. But they sometimes call them DDSD for the ones they keep only data on.
It took one poor kid about six tries before I understood he was saying he used Rufus.

You may like Windows10, but I can tell you, it is rare for me to run across someone who is pleased with it.
They use it because they have to for school or at their job.

I've asked a few kids who have Linux on a stick why they chose to use Linux.
In almost all cases they say it is because they can set up the way they want it to work.
Although when I see their screens, they are the simple screens that look more like a Windows XP screen.

Debi has a friend come over every once in awhile to use her computer, she quit coming after I bought her the Win10 computer. Now that she's back down on Win7 she comes back around again, hi hi.
She was in a real big hurry and Debi was doing something on her computer that she couldn't quit on, so I had her come up to my office and let her use the Debian Linux machine on the other desk.
Now although all she wanted to do was connect to her Yahoo e-mail account, she was more than amazed.
I have a 3 window system monitor at the top, and weather, temp and a few other things. And in the bottom tray have the different work spaces, which I hear Windows10 now has too.
I guess from using Windows computers, she would drop the browser into the tray to open the notepad to copy things to, then drop it down and raise the browser back up again.
I said you don't have to do it that way. I moved the notepad over to another workspace and showed her to just click there and it's already open, you don't have to raise and lower it.
She said I can do something similar on my own machine at home by clicking the bottom tabs.
I said you can do that here too. So moved the notepad back to the browser work space, and now it worked like she was used to doing on her computer. Even so you had to wait a split second for the notepad or browser to appear doing it that way.
I left her alone after that while she was doing her e-mails, and copying a few things to the notepad. Then she saved her text file to her USB stick and was done.
She asked if I had a certain program using a proprietary Windows name which I didn't know, so I looked on-line to see what it was and if there was an equivalent Linux program. It just so happened there were about six to eight of them.
I read the description of what each did differently, and she selected one after I said I can download it in a jiffy. She said you mean you don't have to order or buy it. I said no, and showed her how I open Synaptic and go fetch it.
She didn't really like that program so I downloaded another for her to try and she loved it.
Unfortunately I don't remember what it was anymore, because she's been back a few times since then to use my computer instead of Debi's. I've not yet got her interested enough to try Linux for herself though.

Although I don't use Ubuntu myself anymore, I still get their newsletters from time to time.
The most recent was from Cannonical, they were boasting about the hundreds of new larger businesses that signed up with them for entire fleets of Ubuntu computers in their work places.
They also talked about Windows 10 adding WLS (aka Linux) to Win10 because Developers needed it. Developers usually chose Linux machines to do their coding on. They are hoping by adding WLS it will keep the developers on the win machines.

Most large companies have their own work place program screens, so those using the computers don't even know if they are on Windows or a Linux Distro unless they back out to the desktop to look for something outside of the business software.

I have noticed something you mentioned in the past, about many workplaces are using web browsers to access the programs they use to run their business. We had the pooches to the vet last week, and although they have Windows computer, no idea what version, but they open Firefox to get to the data entry and other screens from the server. One thing I did notice was their server is running on Linux when they scrolled down to the end of the window. Just like your forum here shows phpBB at the bottom. I assume you are running it on Linux since the Windows version is slow and problematic.

[yogi]

I do talk to teenagers more often than you would suspect. At one point they dominated the social media of the day and it was impossible to avoid them without giving up the media itself. Over the years I derived a certain kind of first hand knowledge about the younger generation's way of thinking and communicating. That's how I became familiar with a lot of the text-speak they use. I've become adept at translating their language too; well, some of it. If I'm asking a kid about making a flash drive with Linux on it and he comes back talking about a card reader with data on it, I know what he means. I don't really care what he calls it as long as I understand what he is doing with it. Much of my career at Motorola was spent doing something similar. The factory people there were mostly computer illiterate but I had them explain things in their own way. I knew from the context what they were talking about most of the time. So, when I read your comments from the library denizens, I did some similar kind of translation. However, what we do here is more or less one way conversation. The feedback doesn't reach me until you and/or I forgot what was the original point. LOL

There was a time when I felt there was some hope for Linux. Actually, as you are wont to point out, Linux is well established in certain niche markets. The fact that they dominate servers doesn't make Linux any easier to deal with on a desktop level, and there are at least a hundred times the number of PC's as there are servers. It's futile to argue which OS is better because the folks at Microsoft are doing something different than the folks in Linux-land, wherever that might be. Each is good at what it does. At the moment I am convince Linux is not ready for the average computer user, but is well suited for the geeks among us and the folks coming out of universities with CS degrees. I'd say given enough time Linux could lure a lot of Windows people into its camp, but by the time that happens PC's will be obsolete as well as the underlying operating systems. Microsoft is already moving in that direction.

There are rumors going around that Microsoft is considering extending it's service support for Windows 7 much the same way as it did for Windows XP. This will put off my personal confrontation with Redmond for another year if it actually happens. I will need to decide on a future path when the support for my operating system ends, but it's becoming clearer every day which direction I will feel most comfortable going. I'm not finished with the Linux on a stick project yet, but it has given me an awareness of EFI that I didn't have before. It's truly a step up. If I can get Linux to play nice in a UEFI environment, then there will be no need to make a choice of one over the other. The beauty of the old BIOS way of doing things was that it could handle everything I wanted to do. It's looking like UEFI can also achieve that status so that there will be no need for me to separate myself from a reliable Windows operating system. Now, if Microsoft decides it's time to force people to subscribe to their service, I may reconsider my decision.

There were some Windows servers at Motorola. Most of them were hosting internal web pages but they had other uses too. It's dealing with those servers that convinced me to put this website on a Linux server. LOL The performance of a Windows server isn't bad but the maintenance of it's web hosting is a pain in the butt. I don't do much maintenance here so that it really might not matter which type of server we use. The control panel that I would have access to is the same regardless of what the underlying OS happens to be.

A lot of companies are using custom applications for their business. Some of those apps are off the shelf purchases but a lot are written in house. Access to those apps may or may not be via a web browser. It's probably more secure not to use a browser, but I've not done any web app development to know for certain.

[Kellemora]

On the side of Windows. With the world going Mobile, making all programs available on-line, rather than having them on your own devices can be beneficial for nearly everyone these days. It would also save them from paying for a license for each device they use. Many people still have a desktop computer, a laptop, a smaller notebook, and of course their Schmartz-Fonz. When you look at the licensing cost to have your own programs on each one, suddenly paying a monthly service fee to use the on-line versions sounds like a good deal. Plus they would always have the latest versions to use.

Looking a little further ahead: The government is trying to control the Internet, and are already taxing some things you do on the Internet. Although VOIP is free, I'm paying 4 to 6 dollars a month in federal taxes to have VOIP linked to a telephone number. It started out at three bucks but has kept climbing.
We are also paying a tax for Streaming Video, but this is included in service packages, we don't pay it directly like we do with VOIP.
So once they get 1/4th of the country using on-line programs, you can bet your boots to dollars the government will tax you to use on-line program services. I can smell it coming from ten miles away.

On the side of Linux. Even Mickey$oft recognized how valuable Linux is, which is why almost all of Windows OSs and Programs were first coded on Linux machines, then ported over to run on Windows computers. Windows is also copying one heck of a lot of Linux Distro features into Windows now too. Including making LInux service tools available using a Windows machine while coding in Linux.

The downside of Windows. They are slowly abandoning their own server software in lieu of the more robust Linux server. Even their Azure runs on Linux. Here ya go, straight from the horses mouth. That's right. "Microsoft's prize cloud is Linux Server, not Windows Server, and is now, at least some of the time, the most popular operating system. Windows Server isn't going to be making a come back." For example, Azure's Software Defined Network (SDN) is based on Linux.

Why do you think Mickey$oft is switching from WAMP to LAMP which is Linux?
Because they know what is the best server for their needs, hi hi!

[yogi]

I've pointed it out a few times in the past and one more iteration won't hurt. Microsoft isn't targeting the same user base as is Linux. If anything, Linux is trying desperately to break into the market in which Micorsoft dominates. The joke is on Linux, however, because the desktops and laptops are being abandoned by Microsoft in favor of cloud computing. The era of client/server computing is coming to an end. It's unfortunate that Microsoft didn't realize it at the time Apple and Google wrestled for market share in the mobile market. They might have had a chance at dominating that world too.

The end of software licensing is following the end of the client/server era. Apple and Google are essentially giving their basic operating system away for free. Of course there are terms of service but the cost of owning a mobile device is not so much in license fees as it is in buying the equipment and services. Note how Microsoft itself does not refer to Windows as being an operating system, and that it is still selling licenses for it. Note also that Microsoft is well behind the leaders. LOL

Windows is not designed to compile programs. My WIndows 7 happens to have a compiler available if I want to run a Linux program on it (gparted, for example). Never heard of it? Most people on the planet don't know about it either because it's so out of context with the idea of personal computing. Linux, on the other hand, is a progeny of the Bourne Shell, just as is Unix and all it's variations. Shell programming is what is used for developing base software. In other words Linux excels at low level programming, that which micro processors understand, and sucks at anything needing interpreting. I don't personally know what Microsoft is using to create their base software, but I'd be surprised to learn it is something designed specifically for desktop computing. That is exactly why Windows 10 incorporates WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) as a standard feature. It saves developers the cost of buying separate equipment suited for developing applications. Windows can do it all.

[Kellemora]

You do know Cloud Computing still uses Servers I hope, and lots of them.
Also, their are two main types of program services.
In one type, when you connect to use a program to do your work, it actually downloads the basic part of the program to your computer, but is working on-line with the server.
Another type, when you connect to use a program to do your work, you are using the program on their mainframe, and only saving your work to their server and downloading a copy onto your computer also if you want.
This latter type cannot be done on servers alone, and does require a computer farm or mainframe, which is much more costly to pull off than the first type I mentioned.

One of the on-line editing programs I use is totally on-line, no part of it gets downloaded to my own computer, until I'm done and can download a copy for myself, or just leave my copies on their server so I can access it from anywhere.
Their customer base got so big, they had to buy another mainframe to handle all the clients they have.

From what I understand, Mickey$oft is going with the totally on-line type of programs, which will require one heck of a lot of computing power. Either that are they will have to lease time from supercomputer owners.

I don't think we will see the demise of desktops in my lifetime!

[yogi]

If I recall correctly, Microsoft is renting space on the AWS network to do some of the Azure configurations.

The Cloud is providing services, such as Windows operating systems, and there are a ton of people using what's up in the cloud (yes, on their servers) as opposed to having the resource on their local computer. The reasoning behind that arrangement is to eliminate the need for individuals to buy software per se. For example, Microsoft no longer supports their long standing money machine, Office Suite. There will be no new versions. However, they are pushing hard for people to subscribe to Office 365, their cloud based system. You can get Free Office, LibreOffice, and OpenOffice to take the place of what Microsoft is abandoning, but how long do you think that will last? Those "free" folks have to make a profit somewhere to stay in business.

My vision of the next evolution is actually an interim step. There will be devices that are portable as is a tablet and yet it can be docked into a keyboard for that high speed Ethernet. These dual identity machines will probably not have a hard drive and little internal memory. Think Google Netbook gone wild. It will just be a big brother to what we know today as smartphones, which are actually computers and not phones at all. When that day comes you will be looking around asking, "where have all the desktops gone, long time passing?"

Well, yes, there are gamers who may hang in there until the bitter end. But virtual reality and augmented reality is changing the name of that game too.

[Kellemora]

I've not heard very nice things about Office 365. Apparently it is not only lacking much needed features, but it takes way to long to update after each entry of data.

As for as FOSS goes, many LInux users do donate to the maintainers of the programs they use most.
However, it is still all volunteer programmers, many of which are college students working toward a degree.

When I was on my last doctors visit, instead of using the already connected mouse, keyboard, and monitor.
The gal doing the data entry during my visit, the one who does your info in your exam room, did so using a little netbook with a touch screen. Everything she did appeared on the monitor in the room too.
The only time she reached for the keyboard was when she had to update my meds list and type in the name and dosage.
When they weigh you and take your temp, instead of typing it in, she used a drop down box which did not appear on the room monitor, but my weight and temp appeared after she scrolled down on her touch screen and tapped it.

I think of the massive stereo systems we used to have. I still have mine but it is still packed away, unused.
Since most smaller devices now have Bose speaker systems in them, they sound like their big brother speakers.
Even so, I still like the big old systems, even though the components were basically empty boxes.

I can honestly say I know more people selling their ChromeBooks at a loss because they don't like them, than I know folks who still use theirs. Both my sons wife, and my step-sons girlfriend have both sold theirs, for the simple reason they are a pain to use, too slow, and they cannot really get their work done on them in a timely fashion.

I do realize folks are trying to do everything on their Schmartz-Fonz, but 99.999% of that is just playing around, not trying to do serious work. I have several author friends who are writing books by talking into their Schmartz-Fonz, but then they have two to three times more editing to do when the upload it to their computers, which are usually those toy laptops. Which by the way, I consider very unhealthy to use. Most using them have poor posture, and I'm sure they will have all kinds of problems from not sitting right or working at odd angles.

[yogi]

At one time I could safely say Microsoft was the trend setter. Love them or hate them, they ruled the PC market with their operating system and office software. Those two things made them the huge success they are today. That all happened under Bill Gates. When the founder left, the company changed and lost some of its brilliance. It lost none of it's resources and still dominates the PC world. Their problem today is that the PC world is vanishing. Microsoft now has to establish a new core competency. They seem to think their Office Suite is extinct along with the personal computers it was designed for. I'd agree with them to a certain extent. The replacement, Office 365 is all a web app can be, and that isn't saying much. You need the full screen and keyboard to actually be productive. That's where I see the hybrid tablet/desktop machine coming into play.

Chromebook is another example of a half-assed design. It does what it was designed to do very well. All that's needed now is a market for such a device. It's biggest advantage over the traditional laptop is its low cost. As networks and network protocols improve there will be a shift to web (cloud) based computing in great numbers. That's because there will be no other choices.

Right now smartphones have everything that new computing device of the future will have as far as functionality goes. You still need that keyboard and large screen in order to do anything productive. Microsoft is trying to create that device but is having growing pains at the moment. The future is in the cloud. We just need some devices to help us take advantage of it.