I have four short-stories and one novel published. The novel is also in print.
I tried doing a couple of other short-stories as a break from the long series, but the rough draft ended up novel length also.
I actually have two different parts and though about making it a trilogy, but wanted to get back to my series.
For every hour of writing, there is about five to ten hours of editing and rewriting.
One part of my story is what I sent to Glenn to use to help build his story on.
He gave it an interesting twist, by changing one of my cultural groups of flying apes into flying dragons.
I should say, at the time I pounded out that rough draft, then tossed it in a drawer for years, the movie Planet of the Apes had been out for a few years already, and the reason I went with flying apes in my version.
He didn't change the story much, but cut out the first four to six chapters for sure to get his starting point.
I had hoped one of his family members would carry it through to publication. He asked me to also, but it still needs a lot of work before it will be publishable, and since it is a takeoff of one of my existing stories, I figured I would let it cool for a few years.
Gotta finish my series first, way too many years tied up in it.
All the world building, genealogy, and character sketches are done, including a history book of the 175 year old city which I use as my reference and outline components.
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For some reason or another I never thought of you as being interested in fantasy fiction. I know Glenn got some help from you and even I read a draft or two of his early work. I still have that somewhere too. You probably would be the ideal choice to finish up what Glenn started and publish it given that you were so involved with its creation. However, you have your own mark to make in this world and that should take precedence.
I've been communicating with a variety of friends and relatives over the years. A few of the aunts and uncles are long gone but I have all the letters we exchanged. There are some letters to friends that I thought about amassing into some kind of journal. I wrote to them about things I would never tell the relatives. A lot of thoughts that nobody has heard or read from me are in those correspondences. My thinking is that it would be a great insight for the kids and grandchildren to have access to my collection of thoughts. But then, I am brought back to reality rather quickly. I see my kids a couple times a year and the grandchildren even less. While my comments might be interesting to me, nobody else would benefit from them. It's just rambling ... kind of like what we do here.
I've been communicating with a variety of friends and relatives over the years. A few of the aunts and uncles are long gone but I have all the letters we exchanged. There are some letters to friends that I thought about amassing into some kind of journal. I wrote to them about things I would never tell the relatives. A lot of thoughts that nobody has heard or read from me are in those correspondences. My thinking is that it would be a great insight for the kids and grandchildren to have access to my collection of thoughts. But then, I am brought back to reality rather quickly. I see my kids a couple times a year and the grandchildren even less. While my comments might be interesting to me, nobody else would benefit from them. It's just rambling ... kind of like what we do here.
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I understand Yogi - My son asked me to put a few things about myself in a memoir. I told him I didn't need to do that, since I have a diary that goes back to before I was born, and I update it every year with important events or things I did or was working on or companies I worked with doing what.
This is going to sound strange, but I had my personal daily life yet unhidden diary, my work diaries one for each job, and a highly personal diary never to be seen by anyone while I'm alive, hi hi.
After two floods, and the frau at the times joint efforts with me to salvage my paper diaries after the first flood, we laid out every page so they could dry. Some of them had water based ink so were unreadable, and some pages bonded themselves together. But between my four or five sets of diaries, we were able to recover most of what I had written. All of this was on 5-1/4 floppies, plus loose printed out 9-pin dot matrix paper copies.
During the second flood, all the printouts were damaged beyond recovery, that kind of paper just fell apart like toilet paper. Only half of the floppies got wet, and all but two of those were recoverable.
Then we hit another problem. All the papers Ruth typed up from the mess onto 5-1/4 floppies became one set. And all those I typed up were on other 5-1/4 floppies. Sometimes she couldn't read my waterlogged and faded handwriting so put down what she thought it might have said, based on the before and after lines. And since I had four or five different sets of books, all covering the same time spans, but for different purposes, they all ended up combined.
After I moved down here, I started going through all those old 5-1/4 disks and first copied them to CDs to work from.
Then with a CD in each computer, I could organize by dates, and retype everything in folders by years. It was a really big job, and there were a lot of side folders, like for animals and pets, homes we lived in, places I worked, and people I worked with. But I eventually got it all done, and you know me, backed up redundantly. Anything of a super personal nature was placed in a separate folder not in the main body of my diary.
As far as my work diaries go, which were blended with the recovered diaries, Ruth left out hundreds of entries she said are so unimportant they don't need to be in a diary. My work diaries were also for personal expenses too. So it was not uncommon to find several lines a day which read "Coke 15 cents" or "Snack 25 cents" usually naming the snack.
When she first started typing up my wet diary pages from the work diaries, she was adding a new line that said "Personal Expenses for the day, with an amount." But she stopped doing that after about two months worth of adding that entry.
What she did put down was every dime I loaned someone else and it really built up over a years time, especially when I was making utility and car payments for friends who were out of work for short periods of time. She also kept track of my business start up debts too. So they are all still in my diaries somewhere, hi hi.
This is going to sound strange, but I had my personal daily life yet unhidden diary, my work diaries one for each job, and a highly personal diary never to be seen by anyone while I'm alive, hi hi.
After two floods, and the frau at the times joint efforts with me to salvage my paper diaries after the first flood, we laid out every page so they could dry. Some of them had water based ink so were unreadable, and some pages bonded themselves together. But between my four or five sets of diaries, we were able to recover most of what I had written. All of this was on 5-1/4 floppies, plus loose printed out 9-pin dot matrix paper copies.
During the second flood, all the printouts were damaged beyond recovery, that kind of paper just fell apart like toilet paper. Only half of the floppies got wet, and all but two of those were recoverable.
Then we hit another problem. All the papers Ruth typed up from the mess onto 5-1/4 floppies became one set. And all those I typed up were on other 5-1/4 floppies. Sometimes she couldn't read my waterlogged and faded handwriting so put down what she thought it might have said, based on the before and after lines. And since I had four or five different sets of books, all covering the same time spans, but for different purposes, they all ended up combined.
After I moved down here, I started going through all those old 5-1/4 disks and first copied them to CDs to work from.
Then with a CD in each computer, I could organize by dates, and retype everything in folders by years. It was a really big job, and there were a lot of side folders, like for animals and pets, homes we lived in, places I worked, and people I worked with. But I eventually got it all done, and you know me, backed up redundantly. Anything of a super personal nature was placed in a separate folder not in the main body of my diary.
As far as my work diaries go, which were blended with the recovered diaries, Ruth left out hundreds of entries she said are so unimportant they don't need to be in a diary. My work diaries were also for personal expenses too. So it was not uncommon to find several lines a day which read "Coke 15 cents" or "Snack 25 cents" usually naming the snack.
When she first started typing up my wet diary pages from the work diaries, she was adding a new line that said "Personal Expenses for the day, with an amount." But she stopped doing that after about two months worth of adding that entry.
What she did put down was every dime I loaned someone else and it really built up over a years time, especially when I was making utility and car payments for friends who were out of work for short periods of time. She also kept track of my business start up debts too. So they are all still in my diaries somewhere, hi hi.
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Your life story is/was way too well documented. LOL I never liked the idea of having a paper trail of my life and never kept a diary or journal because of that. But something interesting happened to change my mind when I was in high school. I think it was my sophomore year and the first class of the day was English. The class started at 8 AM and the teacher was strict about students arriving on time. I guess he had the right idea in that he figured kids walking in late missed some good teaching and they also interrupted the class. But it was the first period and teenagers normally have a hard time getting up that early. Anyway, the first tardiness was forgiven. The second and those thereafter required that you bring in a 1000 word essay on some random subject the teacher would come up with. If you didn't hand in the paper, your grade for the class would go down one level.
Well I lived some ten miles from school and had to rely on public transportation to get there on time. That didn't always work out and I earned myself a few of those 1000 word essay assignments. The topic generally was something boring like a short biography of some president. Fortunately I was taking typing classes at the time and got permission to type my assignments instead of hand writing them. I copied my first assignment right out of an encyclopedia, but didn't start at the beginning. I went in a few paragraphs, counted 1000 words and stopped exactly there. I was surprised that I didn't receive any comment about what I did. So the next tardy assignment I started with a paragraph from the encyclopedia, but then modified some of the facts, such as mentioning that Martha Washington had a fondness for playing billiards. No comment from the teacher about that alteration. So the next time around I decided to be creative and describe how Thomas Jefferson operated a bordello and would play strip poker with some of the girls between sessions. That generated no comment as well and I was convinced by that time that the teacher never read what was written. So then I started writing about some of my personal escapades. Half of it was fiction but there was also some truth in what I put down. By the time the semester was over, I got to enjoy writing about things I thought to be of interest.
I didn't sit down and write very often, but in total I must have composed a few hundred pages describing my teenage years. I married at age 21 and stopped writing altogether at that time but didn't toss out the papers. I thought even then that they would be priceless when I got to the age I am now. Somewhere along the line I got paranoid and destroyed almost all the papers for fear of somebody discovering them. I don't think I said anything nasty in them, but I was very candid. It's not the kind of stuff I wanted to be made public. LOL I kept about 5 pages of it all describing my first kiss. I was all of 15 at the time and managed to brilliantly depict all the awkwardness that goes into such a thing. I often wonder what became of that young lady and had a crazy idea of sharing those papers with her if we ever met again. But, just before we moved down here to Missouri, they mistakenly got put into the dumpster with a lot of trash. Oh well ...
Well I lived some ten miles from school and had to rely on public transportation to get there on time. That didn't always work out and I earned myself a few of those 1000 word essay assignments. The topic generally was something boring like a short biography of some president. Fortunately I was taking typing classes at the time and got permission to type my assignments instead of hand writing them. I copied my first assignment right out of an encyclopedia, but didn't start at the beginning. I went in a few paragraphs, counted 1000 words and stopped exactly there. I was surprised that I didn't receive any comment about what I did. So the next tardy assignment I started with a paragraph from the encyclopedia, but then modified some of the facts, such as mentioning that Martha Washington had a fondness for playing billiards. No comment from the teacher about that alteration. So the next time around I decided to be creative and describe how Thomas Jefferson operated a bordello and would play strip poker with some of the girls between sessions. That generated no comment as well and I was convinced by that time that the teacher never read what was written. So then I started writing about some of my personal escapades. Half of it was fiction but there was also some truth in what I put down. By the time the semester was over, I got to enjoy writing about things I thought to be of interest.
I didn't sit down and write very often, but in total I must have composed a few hundred pages describing my teenage years. I married at age 21 and stopped writing altogether at that time but didn't toss out the papers. I thought even then that they would be priceless when I got to the age I am now. Somewhere along the line I got paranoid and destroyed almost all the papers for fear of somebody discovering them. I don't think I said anything nasty in them, but I was very candid. It's not the kind of stuff I wanted to be made public. LOL I kept about 5 pages of it all describing my first kiss. I was all of 15 at the time and managed to brilliantly depict all the awkwardness that goes into such a thing. I often wonder what became of that young lady and had a crazy idea of sharing those papers with her if we ever met again. But, just before we moved down here to Missouri, they mistakenly got put into the dumpster with a lot of trash. Oh well ...
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None of my diaries were like what a girls diary may look like, and 90% had nothing to do with my personal life per se.
Those parts that did have something to do with my personal life were only occasional entries in my personal diary.
This may sound odd, but I could not function without my work diaries. I had so many sideline jobs going on, I liked to keep track of who I worked for and when. This had nothing to do with my appointment books, or work schedule books, but some of what was in those two books did end up in my diary, due to important features about who or what I worked on. Like while working for McDonnell-Douglas, drawing the drop-chute-door for the Gemini XII space capsule. Or while working for Sverdrup & Parcel being allowed to design the Eddy-Current-Brake for the Alton Lock and Dam project. Things like that did end up in my daily diary.
When I worked for Sverdrup & Parcel, we had to keep daily work diaries, showing which client we worked on from what time to what time, and which of their projects, especially if they had several going on at the same time. These diaries were turned in once a month to the accounting office. So we actually two diaries, one used every other month while the previous month was in accounting. We got them back about two weeks later so they were ready when a new month started.
Sometimes I cringe when I read what I wrote in my personal diary, sometimes too explicit, hi hi.
I had kept nearly every story I had written for school projects, but all of those were lost in the second flood.
Sad really, because stuff like this was kept upstairs, until we started remodeling after the first flood, then almost everything, including most of our furniture was moved downstairs, and a lot of it was down there for the second flood.
All of my business machines were destroyed in the flood also, since my office was downstairs. But one of the things I did after the first flood was build a new kitchen where our dining room used to be, and the old kitchen became my office. But almost all the old boxes of paperwork and keepsakes were kept downstairs on benches which were higher off the floor than the first flood. The second flood filled the basement to about six feet deep, and the benches were only 4 feet high. I still have ten of these benches, and brought them with me when I moved south. Mainly because they were originally built by my grandfather, and I had a good use for them here for storage.
Those parts that did have something to do with my personal life were only occasional entries in my personal diary.
This may sound odd, but I could not function without my work diaries. I had so many sideline jobs going on, I liked to keep track of who I worked for and when. This had nothing to do with my appointment books, or work schedule books, but some of what was in those two books did end up in my diary, due to important features about who or what I worked on. Like while working for McDonnell-Douglas, drawing the drop-chute-door for the Gemini XII space capsule. Or while working for Sverdrup & Parcel being allowed to design the Eddy-Current-Brake for the Alton Lock and Dam project. Things like that did end up in my daily diary.
When I worked for Sverdrup & Parcel, we had to keep daily work diaries, showing which client we worked on from what time to what time, and which of their projects, especially if they had several going on at the same time. These diaries were turned in once a month to the accounting office. So we actually two diaries, one used every other month while the previous month was in accounting. We got them back about two weeks later so they were ready when a new month started.
Sometimes I cringe when I read what I wrote in my personal diary, sometimes too explicit, hi hi.
I had kept nearly every story I had written for school projects, but all of those were lost in the second flood.
Sad really, because stuff like this was kept upstairs, until we started remodeling after the first flood, then almost everything, including most of our furniture was moved downstairs, and a lot of it was down there for the second flood.
All of my business machines were destroyed in the flood also, since my office was downstairs. But one of the things I did after the first flood was build a new kitchen where our dining room used to be, and the old kitchen became my office. But almost all the old boxes of paperwork and keepsakes were kept downstairs on benches which were higher off the floor than the first flood. The second flood filled the basement to about six feet deep, and the benches were only 4 feet high. I still have ten of these benches, and brought them with me when I moved south. Mainly because they were originally built by my grandfather, and I had a good use for them here for storage.
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I can understand the journals you had to keep for work. They contained vital billing information that only you could provide. All I can think of is how talented and work oriented you must have been, but when tax time rolled around it must have taken you forever to gather all the paperwork from all those employers. LOL I had my taxes done by an accountant the first year we moved down here. It was complicated due to income from both states, plus I was still preoccupied with adjusting to the new environment. When I got it all back I decided they will do my taxes from now on. Those Missouri state tax forms are out of this world compared to the simplicity of Illinois. Up north I could literally do it all on one page, but they had a web site that made it even easier. I answered something like 10 questions and it was done.
For thirty years I lived next to a stream of water and only 11" above the water table below my foundation. There was a lot of hesitation about building anything on that land when we did the original core samples, but I was told by some engineers that it could be done if I took some precautions. Well I did and never had water in the basement in spite of going through two 100-year-flood experiences. LOL Seems odd that two would occur in the span of thirty years, but I guess that's when this climate change started to gear up. I doubt we would ever get water in this basement, but I'd estimate that half the farms in Missouri are under water as I write this. I was shopping at Schnucks today and they had signs posted about shortages of canned goods due to the weather. This is this the first time I ever saw such a thing in all my 70-odd years of shopping.
For thirty years I lived next to a stream of water and only 11" above the water table below my foundation. There was a lot of hesitation about building anything on that land when we did the original core samples, but I was told by some engineers that it could be done if I took some precautions. Well I did and never had water in the basement in spite of going through two 100-year-flood experiences. LOL Seems odd that two would occur in the span of thirty years, but I guess that's when this climate change started to gear up. I doubt we would ever get water in this basement, but I'd estimate that half the farms in Missouri are under water as I write this. I was shopping at Schnucks today and they had signs posted about shortages of canned goods due to the weather. This is this the first time I ever saw such a thing in all my 70-odd years of shopping.
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The two times my house flooded, neither time was because of river flooding, and both times the water came in through the sewer system, so was not covered by insurance.
We would be in deep trouble if flood waters ever got as high as I-270 and Olive Blvd. hi hi.
Flood number one came because as they were building the big bank in my front yard, before it had walls and a roof, but had all the floors and ironwork in. We had a torrential downpour that lasted for two days.
When they connected their sewer system they made two major mistakes. The first was, they connected to the wrong sewer line, they were supposed to connect to the mainline sewer that ran down from Olive Blvd. to the Ross Road mainline. They accidentally connected their sewer line to the residential waste line from our street, which did not connect to the mainline until it reached the end of the subdivision then tied into the Ross Road mainline. Our line never connected to the Olive Blvd. sewer line anywhere. The second problem was, they installed a T-fitting where our 90 degree ell turned down Tempo. And even it was installed wrong. The side outlet of the T is what connected to the outflow from our street, which meant their connection to the end of the T went straight out the other end of the T and into my basement. This is the time we got four feet of water in the finished basement.
The second time was from the huge medical building up on the hill west of us.
It was a long downhill drop from there downhill to us. They were supposed to install a Tumbling Basin on the other side of Tempo, and then connect to the Olive Blvd. to Ross Road sewer line. Once again, all they did was pull the cap off the end of the T previously installed by the bank, then sealed when they connected to the proper sewer line.
Same scenario as the bank, floors but no roof yet, and severe thunderstorms.
Without that tumbling basin, the water hit our street with so much force, water came out of our shower drain with so much force it hit the ceiling in the bathroom, and naturally all the sinks and commode overflowed. It was a royal mess upstairs, and it didn't quit until we had over 6 feet of water in the basement. Water ran from the bathroom and kitchen all the way through out house and out the front and back doors.
Then, when the residential sewer line blew apart, as the water drained out of our basement with so much pressure, it collapsed the lateral from my house out to the street. That's the only thing the insurance company paid to replace.
All of us who were flooded out by the bank and by the medical building filed lawsuits against both of them, but we got no where. Not even after we proved they made mistakes and failed to install the system required by the county and the sewer district. We do know they got fined heavily, but none of us ever saw a dime. Our case was tossed out both times, probably because the judges got paid off by the big contracting companies.
Because of where my house was located, I got the worst of it both times.
We would be in deep trouble if flood waters ever got as high as I-270 and Olive Blvd. hi hi.
Flood number one came because as they were building the big bank in my front yard, before it had walls and a roof, but had all the floors and ironwork in. We had a torrential downpour that lasted for two days.
When they connected their sewer system they made two major mistakes. The first was, they connected to the wrong sewer line, they were supposed to connect to the mainline sewer that ran down from Olive Blvd. to the Ross Road mainline. They accidentally connected their sewer line to the residential waste line from our street, which did not connect to the mainline until it reached the end of the subdivision then tied into the Ross Road mainline. Our line never connected to the Olive Blvd. sewer line anywhere. The second problem was, they installed a T-fitting where our 90 degree ell turned down Tempo. And even it was installed wrong. The side outlet of the T is what connected to the outflow from our street, which meant their connection to the end of the T went straight out the other end of the T and into my basement. This is the time we got four feet of water in the finished basement.
The second time was from the huge medical building up on the hill west of us.
It was a long downhill drop from there downhill to us. They were supposed to install a Tumbling Basin on the other side of Tempo, and then connect to the Olive Blvd. to Ross Road sewer line. Once again, all they did was pull the cap off the end of the T previously installed by the bank, then sealed when they connected to the proper sewer line.
Same scenario as the bank, floors but no roof yet, and severe thunderstorms.
Without that tumbling basin, the water hit our street with so much force, water came out of our shower drain with so much force it hit the ceiling in the bathroom, and naturally all the sinks and commode overflowed. It was a royal mess upstairs, and it didn't quit until we had over 6 feet of water in the basement. Water ran from the bathroom and kitchen all the way through out house and out the front and back doors.
Then, when the residential sewer line blew apart, as the water drained out of our basement with so much pressure, it collapsed the lateral from my house out to the street. That's the only thing the insurance company paid to replace.
All of us who were flooded out by the bank and by the medical building filed lawsuits against both of them, but we got no where. Not even after we proved they made mistakes and failed to install the system required by the county and the sewer district. We do know they got fined heavily, but none of us ever saw a dime. Our case was tossed out both times, probably because the judges got paid off by the big contracting companies.
Because of where my house was located, I got the worst of it both times.
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It doesn't seem right that building contractors could break the sewer system and not be liable for it. Twice, is simply a miscarriage of justice. They say you can't fight city hall, but you can fight the individuals who make bad judgments. Apparently in your case it was a matter of suing the wrong people or who can pay the judge more. Either way something like that would easily motivate me to leave town.
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What the bank eventually got fined for was not for installing the plumbing fitting wrong, or connecting to a residential system instead of the commercial sewer system. They were fined for allowing Storm Water into a Sanitary Sewer System by not plugging all the floor drains until the building was completed. They were ordered to dig up the street and connect to the proper sewer system, but was not fined for that mistake, because the service maps provided to them were in error.
And this is the reason our case was tossed out. It was not negligence on their part they connected to the wrong waste lines.
Now as far as the medical building goes. They were not fined due to storm water but heavily fined for not installing the tumbling basin as required on their building permits. Again, the fact they connected to the wrong sewer line was once again due to the error on the service maps.
The attorney our subdivision used did check to see why the service maps were wrong, and it dates all the way back to when the strip mall was built. At that time there was no commercial sewer other than the one that ran along Olive Blvd, which would be uphill from the strip mall. So they had to run a new commercial sewer line down Tempo and tie into the Ross Road commercial line. Rather than tear up both lanes of Tempo, since the MSD plans showed it right down the center, they got permission and a permit to install it either on the east or west side of the centerline. They chose east of the centerline the same side the residential line was on. The residential line was close to the centerline, so they installed the commercial line east of the residential line, and two feet deeper. But the service maps show the one closest to the centerline as being the commercial line and shallower than the residential line, and the one east of that as the residential line is shown as the deeper line. In other words, the service maps were not updated after the strip mall sewer was installed to show exactly where and how deep it was placed. When MDS's maps were updated, they showed the same errors because they were based on what the permits showed, not what the addendum to the permit showed.
In order to sue the contractors, you have to prove negligence on their part, and they have the permits and maps to back them up. The attorney did not attempt to try and sue MSD, said it would cost thousands upon thousands of dollars and there was a 99% chance we would lose. They could also toss it back at us because the contractor who installed the residential sewer system used commercial grade mainline sewer pipe, so it was indistinguishable from the true commercial sewer line. All of the houses on Promenade Lane had 6 inch laterals into an 8 inch commercial grade street line, which tied to an 8 inch commercial grade residential line out to the Ross Road mainline.
The lower end of our subdivision all had 4 inch laterals to 6 inch street lines, tied into the 8 inch commercial grade residential line going out to the Ross Road mainline.
So they could say part of the blame is on our subdivision builder.
Which really isn't true, because at the time the first section of houses were built, code called for 6 inch stacks, vents, floor drains and laterals. By the time they started on the second section of houses, the codes were changed for residential waste water treatment to 4 inch stacks, vents, floor drains and laterals to 6 inch street lines.
What we all were most pissed about was the insurance companies not having to pay us due to loopholes in their policies.
Water Damage only covers if you have a broken supply line inside your house, not outside the house.
Well DUH, that wouldn't cause any true damage, because a broken water line would drain right down and out through the floor drains in the basement. If the floor drains were clogged up, that would be negligence on the homeowners part, so they still would not be covered for water damage. And of course, water coming in through the floor drains is not covered. Not even if you have flood insurance, which we can't get being 200 feet above the flood plain. To be covered by flood insurance, the water level must rise high enough to come in your door or in through basement windows.
In other words, insurance don't cover much of anything associated with water of any type.
And this is the reason our case was tossed out. It was not negligence on their part they connected to the wrong waste lines.
Now as far as the medical building goes. They were not fined due to storm water but heavily fined for not installing the tumbling basin as required on their building permits. Again, the fact they connected to the wrong sewer line was once again due to the error on the service maps.
The attorney our subdivision used did check to see why the service maps were wrong, and it dates all the way back to when the strip mall was built. At that time there was no commercial sewer other than the one that ran along Olive Blvd, which would be uphill from the strip mall. So they had to run a new commercial sewer line down Tempo and tie into the Ross Road commercial line. Rather than tear up both lanes of Tempo, since the MSD plans showed it right down the center, they got permission and a permit to install it either on the east or west side of the centerline. They chose east of the centerline the same side the residential line was on. The residential line was close to the centerline, so they installed the commercial line east of the residential line, and two feet deeper. But the service maps show the one closest to the centerline as being the commercial line and shallower than the residential line, and the one east of that as the residential line is shown as the deeper line. In other words, the service maps were not updated after the strip mall sewer was installed to show exactly where and how deep it was placed. When MDS's maps were updated, they showed the same errors because they were based on what the permits showed, not what the addendum to the permit showed.
In order to sue the contractors, you have to prove negligence on their part, and they have the permits and maps to back them up. The attorney did not attempt to try and sue MSD, said it would cost thousands upon thousands of dollars and there was a 99% chance we would lose. They could also toss it back at us because the contractor who installed the residential sewer system used commercial grade mainline sewer pipe, so it was indistinguishable from the true commercial sewer line. All of the houses on Promenade Lane had 6 inch laterals into an 8 inch commercial grade street line, which tied to an 8 inch commercial grade residential line out to the Ross Road mainline.
The lower end of our subdivision all had 4 inch laterals to 6 inch street lines, tied into the 8 inch commercial grade residential line going out to the Ross Road mainline.
So they could say part of the blame is on our subdivision builder.
Which really isn't true, because at the time the first section of houses were built, code called for 6 inch stacks, vents, floor drains and laterals. By the time they started on the second section of houses, the codes were changed for residential waste water treatment to 4 inch stacks, vents, floor drains and laterals to 6 inch street lines.
What we all were most pissed about was the insurance companies not having to pay us due to loopholes in their policies.
Water Damage only covers if you have a broken supply line inside your house, not outside the house.
Well DUH, that wouldn't cause any true damage, because a broken water line would drain right down and out through the floor drains in the basement. If the floor drains were clogged up, that would be negligence on the homeowners part, so they still would not be covered for water damage. And of course, water coming in through the floor drains is not covered. Not even if you have flood insurance, which we can't get being 200 feet above the flood plain. To be covered by flood insurance, the water level must rise high enough to come in your door or in through basement windows.
In other words, insurance don't cover much of anything associated with water of any type.
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So ... the cause of the flooding was due to MSD maps not being correctly updated. I fail to see how that cannot be negligence. I can understand how the contractors acted on the best information they had. It was wrong information, unfortunately, but they apparently didn't do anything legally wrong. The person(s) who failed to update the MSD maps correctly should be liable to my way of thinking. They probably are long gone and can't be sued anyway.
Insurance companies indemnify things that are not likely to happen. They pay big money to people who can identify those things statistically, i.e., actuaries. While it doesn't seem fair, it is the only way they can stay in business and offer any insurance whatsoever. The only answer to living on or near a flood plane is to move far away from it. Unfortunately, that's the same solution needed when you are victimized by government incompetence. Move away, which you did.
Insurance companies indemnify things that are not likely to happen. They pay big money to people who can identify those things statistically, i.e., actuaries. While it doesn't seem fair, it is the only way they can stay in business and offer any insurance whatsoever. The only answer to living on or near a flood plane is to move far away from it. Unfortunately, that's the same solution needed when you are victimized by government incompetence. Move away, which you did.
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Dig this. My brother had a fishing cabin down along the river, in a flood plain.
Now although he could not insure the cabin for flood, he did have fire and peril insurance.
A tree fell into his cabin during a storm and the insurance company considered his cabin totaled and paid him off.
Unfortunately, because it was in a flood plain, he was not allowed to rebuild.
So he did the next best thing. Fixed the damage to the cabin, then had it reappraised to get insurance from another company on it.
The big thing is, insurance companies never lose, except to those who have the means to sue them for their just payment.
Now although he could not insure the cabin for flood, he did have fire and peril insurance.
A tree fell into his cabin during a storm and the insurance company considered his cabin totaled and paid him off.
Unfortunately, because it was in a flood plain, he was not allowed to rebuild.
So he did the next best thing. Fixed the damage to the cabin, then had it reappraised to get insurance from another company on it.
The big thing is, insurance companies never lose, except to those who have the means to sue them for their just payment.
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You got that right when you say insurance companies never lose. It would be pointless for them to operate in a deficit. The fair payment of a claim is where all the issues arise, but that's why there are contracts with small print. If a claim falls into a gray area of the policy, then some litigation is necessary. The actuaries figure legal expenses into their estimates and premiums are adjusted accordingly. Some years they win and some years they lose, but overall the company must make a profit.
I know a fishing cabin isn't the same as a primary residence, but I never could understand people who insist on building on a flood plane. They will do this regardless of the insurance they may or may not have. I've noted this irrational behavior many times. An area near a river, for example, will get wiped out by a major flood. A few years later there are new houses back where the destroyed ones met their demise. Ocean shore property is the same. Hurricanes will clear out an entire shoreline worth of houses. A few years later new ones will be there on pylons. What manner of craziness is THAT?
I know a fishing cabin isn't the same as a primary residence, but I never could understand people who insist on building on a flood plane. They will do this regardless of the insurance they may or may not have. I've noted this irrational behavior many times. An area near a river, for example, will get wiped out by a major flood. A few years later there are new houses back where the destroyed ones met their demise. Ocean shore property is the same. Hurricanes will clear out an entire shoreline worth of houses. A few years later new ones will be there on pylons. What manner of craziness is THAT?
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A little fishing cabin, even counting the 6x6 stilts it sits on, usually costs less than 3 to 5 grand to build now. Back when my brother built his, I don't think he spent over 1,500 buck for everything. But then little by little you end up adding to it each year, hi hi.
We built a screened in cabin once for under 200 dollars. What we used for the wall covering was old double-tall wood windows screens taken off a house being razed. When the cabin wasn't in use, we removed the screens and stacked them up in the rafters, and as many years as it stood there, flood waters never got as high as the rafters. And being open, it didn't get knocked over either. Seems like we did use plywood pieces covering one corner to help block wind.
My cousin and I used to go fishing every Tuesday night for over ten years. We acquired a 14 foot jon boat that sat with its back end full of water for so many years, the back was ruined. We cut it off to 12 foot and heliarced a new transom to the shell. But this isn't the funny part. Since we did all of our fishing at night, and my cousin was one of those that no light should ever touch the water, yet we needed to see in the boat. We added side-marker trailer lights under the lip of the boat in front off and behind each seat. Then we built a Crows Nest with a 12 volt 100 watt light inside a black bucket.
The top of the bucket was trimmed down just enough the light would hit the banks of the river on either side of us, but not the water. And two small holes drilled in the bottom of the bucket allowed a beam of light to shine down into the center of the boat in two places, one beam on each side of the center seat. This way we could see to bait our hooks, etc.
And that's not all. On the front of the boat, we added the metal and strap frame from a large backpack.
And on the back of the boat, about 2 feet in front of the transom, we placed an axle and two 20 inch bicycle wheels.
This way, if we had to park a long way from the water, we just put our shoulders under the backpack rack and started marching to the water.
We got a lot of laughs our first year using this, but then little by little, other night fishermen showed up with their boats rigged in much the same way.
One guy even added 1/2 rubber balls to the spokes on his wheels and used a couple of small motors to turn the tires and make it go in the water, like a paddle wheel boat.
One time while out at the Big River, we ran across a family who built a miniature riverboat. Visually it looked like a three story riverboat, but was really only high enough to stand up inside like a pontoon boat would be as far as height wise.
Instead of it being a rear paddle, he used two paddle wheels on each side, more like the Admiral, except not covered.
Most of the design was done by painting more so than actual construction design. But from 20 feet away, it looked real.
We built a screened in cabin once for under 200 dollars. What we used for the wall covering was old double-tall wood windows screens taken off a house being razed. When the cabin wasn't in use, we removed the screens and stacked them up in the rafters, and as many years as it stood there, flood waters never got as high as the rafters. And being open, it didn't get knocked over either. Seems like we did use plywood pieces covering one corner to help block wind.
My cousin and I used to go fishing every Tuesday night for over ten years. We acquired a 14 foot jon boat that sat with its back end full of water for so many years, the back was ruined. We cut it off to 12 foot and heliarced a new transom to the shell. But this isn't the funny part. Since we did all of our fishing at night, and my cousin was one of those that no light should ever touch the water, yet we needed to see in the boat. We added side-marker trailer lights under the lip of the boat in front off and behind each seat. Then we built a Crows Nest with a 12 volt 100 watt light inside a black bucket.
The top of the bucket was trimmed down just enough the light would hit the banks of the river on either side of us, but not the water. And two small holes drilled in the bottom of the bucket allowed a beam of light to shine down into the center of the boat in two places, one beam on each side of the center seat. This way we could see to bait our hooks, etc.
And that's not all. On the front of the boat, we added the metal and strap frame from a large backpack.
And on the back of the boat, about 2 feet in front of the transom, we placed an axle and two 20 inch bicycle wheels.
This way, if we had to park a long way from the water, we just put our shoulders under the backpack rack and started marching to the water.
We got a lot of laughs our first year using this, but then little by little, other night fishermen showed up with their boats rigged in much the same way.
One guy even added 1/2 rubber balls to the spokes on his wheels and used a couple of small motors to turn the tires and make it go in the water, like a paddle wheel boat.
One time while out at the Big River, we ran across a family who built a miniature riverboat. Visually it looked like a three story riverboat, but was really only high enough to stand up inside like a pontoon boat would be as far as height wise.
Instead of it being a rear paddle, he used two paddle wheels on each side, more like the Admiral, except not covered.
Most of the design was done by painting more so than actual construction design. But from 20 feet away, it looked real.
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Did some fishing in my days but never at night. A few summer mornings we rowed out before dawn but the sun was up by the time we got to our destination. My uncle Wally was also a fisherman and he never did it in daylight. He loved to go smelt fishing in Lake Michigan where he and the gang would sit on the breakwaters drinking and telling fish stories. LOL That ended tragically one year when some of the fishermen were consumed by rough lake waters. Not sure of the details but since that incident no more fishing was allowed off the breakwaters.
In Illinois and Wisconsin all boats had to have running lights after sunset. I don't think they were white lights either but you couldn't go out on the water unless you were visible. Personally I don't think the fish care. In fact they might be attracted to the lights. My fishing days were good times but at some point I got turned off by having to kill live animals. Even catch and release inflicted damage upon most of the fish. It was fun, but don't think I'd go back to it.
In Illinois and Wisconsin all boats had to have running lights after sunset. I don't think they were white lights either but you couldn't go out on the water unless you were visible. Personally I don't think the fish care. In fact they might be attracted to the lights. My fishing days were good times but at some point I got turned off by having to kill live animals. Even catch and release inflicted damage upon most of the fish. It was fun, but don't think I'd go back to it.
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Our little boat did have running lights, but we only had to turn them on if we were out near the channel. Fishing on a small river did not require lights of any kind to be on. But on small craft like canoes, and jon boats, all that was required was we had a handheld warning light. But the rules change drastically if you have a motor on a craft of any size.
We only fished for catfish, and if they were over a certain size, we would keep them to eat. But these days, with all the pollution in the waterways, we wouldn't eat anything out of a river. Not so sure about the farm raised fish either, hi hi.
When I first moved down here, I was still in the habit of going fishing on Tuesday's, but during the day. We have a couple of small ponds they call lakes, hi hi. Not much in the lake except turtles. The ducks have eaten just about everything else in there. Even so, there are still some catfish in there, but we always let them go back home after catching them. This has good points and bad points, one like you mentioned, but the other is, they LEARN TOO, which makes them more challenging to catch.
While waiting for the catfish to bite, I used to play with catching the little sunfish.
A guy sitting not to far down from me got all upset about my tossing them back as soon as I caught them.
He said those aren't sunfish, those are bluegill, and another fish I was catching crappie.
He was trying to catch mainly crappie and a few bluegill to clean and eat.
So to appease him, all I was catching I put into a 5 gallon bucket for him.
Since I was doing so well, and he wasn't, I offered to change places with him.
Darndest thing, after we switched, and I took his spot, I started catching them like crazy again.
So for the next hour we sat next to each other, using each others bait, and I still kept catching more than he.
Finally determined it must have been the hooks we were using.
He was using jet black hooks, and I was using shiny gold hooks.
Still didn't matter, I gave him several gold hooks, and he insisted I take some of his black hooks.
Although he started doing better with the gold hooks, I still outshined him using his black hooks.
I finally told him, they just like me better is all, hi hi.
I never had the heart to tell him that bright fluorescent orange fishing line of his might be the problem.
I used greenish clear mono-filament that was invisible under water to the fish.
We only fished for catfish, and if they were over a certain size, we would keep them to eat. But these days, with all the pollution in the waterways, we wouldn't eat anything out of a river. Not so sure about the farm raised fish either, hi hi.
When I first moved down here, I was still in the habit of going fishing on Tuesday's, but during the day. We have a couple of small ponds they call lakes, hi hi. Not much in the lake except turtles. The ducks have eaten just about everything else in there. Even so, there are still some catfish in there, but we always let them go back home after catching them. This has good points and bad points, one like you mentioned, but the other is, they LEARN TOO, which makes them more challenging to catch.
While waiting for the catfish to bite, I used to play with catching the little sunfish.
A guy sitting not to far down from me got all upset about my tossing them back as soon as I caught them.
He said those aren't sunfish, those are bluegill, and another fish I was catching crappie.
He was trying to catch mainly crappie and a few bluegill to clean and eat.
So to appease him, all I was catching I put into a 5 gallon bucket for him.
Since I was doing so well, and he wasn't, I offered to change places with him.
Darndest thing, after we switched, and I took his spot, I started catching them like crazy again.
So for the next hour we sat next to each other, using each others bait, and I still kept catching more than he.
Finally determined it must have been the hooks we were using.
He was using jet black hooks, and I was using shiny gold hooks.
Still didn't matter, I gave him several gold hooks, and he insisted I take some of his black hooks.
Although he started doing better with the gold hooks, I still outshined him using his black hooks.
I finally told him, they just like me better is all, hi hi.
I never had the heart to tell him that bright fluorescent orange fishing line of his might be the problem.
I used greenish clear mono-filament that was invisible under water to the fish.
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My fishing activities began when I was a very young boy. The uncles who took me along did it just to please my mom because she complained about my dad not being interested in the sport. He would go along from time to time but never put foot in a boat or even went near the shoreline. He sat back in the picnic area drinking beer. Back in those days I used a bamboo pole with a red and white bobber that I frequently stared at for hours with nothing happening. It was a cool thing for me to do but I only occasionally baited the hook and never cleaned the fish afterwards. I did enjoy hunting for nightcrawlers the night before in the garden.
My father-in-law was an avid fisherman. He was good at fly fishing. I traded in the bamboo pool for a fly rod but never could get the knack of it. He could see the fish in the water and all I saw were reflections of the sky. His main targets were bluegills and crappies. Eventually I got myself geared up with a quality rod and reel. If I ever caught a catfish or a sheepshead the FIL would not even touch it to get it off the hook. He'd just cut the line and let the fish swim off with my neon lure attached. He would not eat bottom feeders for any price. A few times I got together with buddies of mine and went up to norther Wisconsin's Chippewa Flowage where the muskies hang out. I wasn't really geared up for that kind of fishing, but I did land a few fair sized pike and bass. I kept hearing stories about how bass and pike are great fighting fish, but to be honest the crappies and stripped bass were better at it. The catfish were nearly impossible to land. LOL
Down here catfish is on just about every menu in the local restaurants. I tried it a couple times and was not all that impressed. I'd order it again if I thought it was going to be special, but frankly I don't see the attraction. It's definitely a "southern" thing and my Yankee tastebuds just don't fit the program. If I ever did try fishing again, I'd like to do some ocean fishing. Not a big chance of that ever happening, but it could be a bucket list item.
My father-in-law was an avid fisherman. He was good at fly fishing. I traded in the bamboo pool for a fly rod but never could get the knack of it. He could see the fish in the water and all I saw were reflections of the sky. His main targets were bluegills and crappies. Eventually I got myself geared up with a quality rod and reel. If I ever caught a catfish or a sheepshead the FIL would not even touch it to get it off the hook. He'd just cut the line and let the fish swim off with my neon lure attached. He would not eat bottom feeders for any price. A few times I got together with buddies of mine and went up to norther Wisconsin's Chippewa Flowage where the muskies hang out. I wasn't really geared up for that kind of fishing, but I did land a few fair sized pike and bass. I kept hearing stories about how bass and pike are great fighting fish, but to be honest the crappies and stripped bass were better at it. The catfish were nearly impossible to land. LOL
Down here catfish is on just about every menu in the local restaurants. I tried it a couple times and was not all that impressed. I'd order it again if I thought it was going to be special, but frankly I don't see the attraction. It's definitely a "southern" thing and my Yankee tastebuds just don't fit the program. If I ever did try fishing again, I'd like to do some ocean fishing. Not a big chance of that ever happening, but it could be a bucket list item.
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Ha ha, you do know I'm a Yankee, hi hi Born and bred in St. Louis County, MO
The reason I like catfish is it doesn't taste fishy. Closest thing to bland cod.
Fishing for catfish is boring, so on the side you play around catching other things and turning them loose again.
I don't drink beer, but most catfish fishermen are not there to catch anything, other than some rest in a lounge chair with a cooler of beer sitting next to them.
Then there are the gung ho catfish fishermen who put out trot lines, limb lines, pole lines, jug lines, any thing they can do to get the maximum number of hooks allowed in the water, hi hi. That was my grandpa, dad, and uncles, hi hi. I stayed on the bank with my pole, guarding our belongings, so I wouldn't be disturbed for hours while they were out in the boat, hi hi.
When I visited my uncle on Bull Shoals, we caught silver something or other, with scales so sharp they could cut your hands up like raw hamburger. He really loved the taste of those things. I tried perhaps one bite is all, and didn't like them.
But they were fun to catch!
The reason I like catfish is it doesn't taste fishy. Closest thing to bland cod.
Fishing for catfish is boring, so on the side you play around catching other things and turning them loose again.
I don't drink beer, but most catfish fishermen are not there to catch anything, other than some rest in a lounge chair with a cooler of beer sitting next to them.
Then there are the gung ho catfish fishermen who put out trot lines, limb lines, pole lines, jug lines, any thing they can do to get the maximum number of hooks allowed in the water, hi hi. That was my grandpa, dad, and uncles, hi hi. I stayed on the bank with my pole, guarding our belongings, so I wouldn't be disturbed for hours while they were out in the boat, hi hi.
When I visited my uncle on Bull Shoals, we caught silver something or other, with scales so sharp they could cut your hands up like raw hamburger. He really loved the taste of those things. I tried perhaps one bite is all, and didn't like them.
But they were fun to catch!
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My wife's dad had a favorite fishing spot on the Mississippi. It was at a dam located at Gutenberg, Iowa. All they seemed to catch there was sauger, which is a form of walleye pike. There was this barge in the middle of the river at the foot of the dam, and that's where all the cool fishermen did their thing. I did it once just to find out what he was talking about. It was interesting but the fish were not biting that day. Only landed one or two if I recall correctly.
I would agree with you about the catfish being tasteless. At first I figured they would taste like something from a dumpster, but to my surprise they did not. They have very little taste of their own and the texture does remind one of cod.
When we were moving down here I asked the local real estate lady what part of the country do Missouri people belong to. Specifically do they identify with being southern? She said it was a midwestern state just like Illinois. Maybe, but it definitely has more rebel flags and okra than I ever saw up near Chicago. Then I learned that Missouri was kind of split during the Civil War. They sided with the Confederacy but considered themselves Union. I hear it told that the southern part of MO is more like the old south while the norther part is all Yankee. Well, O'Fallon is highly Irish Catholic, and I don't think they fit into any of those categories. LOL
I would agree with you about the catfish being tasteless. At first I figured they would taste like something from a dumpster, but to my surprise they did not. They have very little taste of their own and the texture does remind one of cod.
When we were moving down here I asked the local real estate lady what part of the country do Missouri people belong to. Specifically do they identify with being southern? She said it was a midwestern state just like Illinois. Maybe, but it definitely has more rebel flags and okra than I ever saw up near Chicago. Then I learned that Missouri was kind of split during the Civil War. They sided with the Confederacy but considered themselves Union. I hear it told that the southern part of MO is more like the old south while the norther part is all Yankee. Well, O'Fallon is highly Irish Catholic, and I don't think they fit into any of those categories. LOL
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There's a Catholic Church on every street corner in St. Louis County, and sometimes Lutheran Church and Protestant Church on the other corners, and the gas station of course, hi hi.
Although Missouri remained fairly neutral, I never ran across many southerners while growing up.
Albeit, my mom and her parents were from Tennessee, the other side of the state which is a different country to Tennesseeans in the east side of the state where I'm at.
All I was raised with were Krauts, and 90% of our employees were Krauts too.
And being a German community, we didn't see or hear too many southerners.
One thing about Missouri, and especially St. Louis County, is that it is very class oriented.
You knew what class someone fell in based on where they lived. Although it did change a little bit each decade.
As the city Jews migrated further into the county, the city properties they left behind plummeted, and plummeted again as blacks migrated west also.
The same pretty much happened in the county too, but most ethnicity's held their ground in the county.
Finally the different groups became intertwined in most areas, but the class divisions still existed for a couple more decades. Real Estate agents were very careful about what houses were offered to whom, and they tried to never let a lower class family move into a subdivision a class above their status. Glad to see most of that has changed.
Although Missouri remained fairly neutral, I never ran across many southerners while growing up.
Albeit, my mom and her parents were from Tennessee, the other side of the state which is a different country to Tennesseeans in the east side of the state where I'm at.
All I was raised with were Krauts, and 90% of our employees were Krauts too.
And being a German community, we didn't see or hear too many southerners.
One thing about Missouri, and especially St. Louis County, is that it is very class oriented.
You knew what class someone fell in based on where they lived. Although it did change a little bit each decade.
As the city Jews migrated further into the county, the city properties they left behind plummeted, and plummeted again as blacks migrated west also.
The same pretty much happened in the county too, but most ethnicity's held their ground in the county.
Finally the different groups became intertwined in most areas, but the class divisions still existed for a couple more decades. Real Estate agents were very careful about what houses were offered to whom, and they tried to never let a lower class family move into a subdivision a class above their status. Glad to see most of that has changed.
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Social Class = Red Lining up where I came from, and eventually it all became illegal. There were a ton of what we would now call ghetto communities composing Chicago proper. They were all defined by one's ethnicity. I still recall living in a Polish neighborhood that had gangs to keep the Italians from crossing the invisible red line. We all knew where to go and not to go and life was actually pretty simple that way. Then, for whatever reasons, it was decided that nobody should be prohibited from living any place they wanted to. That meant schools had to be integrated too. To be honest I don't know for certain why that didn't come off very well when people of color decided to live in formerly all white neighborhoods. Well, you know how that ended and I was in the middle of the riots that ensued. It's an experience in life that I'll never forget. I didn't know what to expect from Missouri. All I knew for certain was that it was south of Illinois. It turns out the St Louis area is pretty darn close to what was going on in Chicago. About the only difference of note is that many folks have parents who are or were farmers. Didn't see much of that in the Windy City. Then again, I'm living on the edge and not really close to the big city.