Another Win For Linux

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yogi
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 20 Apr 2019, 14:17

You certainly have a better handle on the problem than I do. My solution to the whole mess is as I stated above: avoid Flash and Chrome as much as possible. Lately I've been avoiding Facebook as much as possible too. LOL I only play one online game that absolutely requires Flash and I never use Chrome for anything other than working with Google services. I wouldn't even do that if I did not have the Pixel clever-phone that is build around the Google philosophy.

The only take away from all this is that Adobe Flash has outlived it's usefulness. As you point out a lot of people have a vested interested in keeping the archaic software alive so that it will not go away any time soon. It should, but unfortunately it won't.

Just a side note to the above, Microsoft has released a version of it's chromium based Edge browser. I'm using it nearly every day for my Twitter excursions and it seems to work better than the original Edge browser. This new browser is coming to the game late as is the case with more than a few things Microsoft has done in recent times. I don't see it taking a huge share of browser market away from Google, but then it's all still in beta. It remains to be seen what the final product will look like. While I'm pretty sure anybody can download and test out this browser, I do not know if it will play nice with Flash. I am fairly confident it's not available in Linux yet.

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Kellemora
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 21 Apr 2019, 10:41

I actually preferred Firefox to Google for years, but then Google kept adding amenities that were useful to me, and of which Firefox still does not have. So, now I've been using Google for a long time. Hate the mess they made of the current version, but hopefully they will fix that, else I may be searching for another browser for certain tasks.

Edge is what was on the frau's new Win10 computer. As you know, Win10 did not work so well on that computer, too darn slow, which is why she want back to a 10 year old computer with Win7 for her daily use. In any case, the Edge browser did not work properly for the few things she did either, so we installed Chrome on the Win10 machine. It helped, but why she did not become more frustrated with that dead slow OS is beyond me. Well, she eventually did, but she did give Win10 a fair trial of over a year without using anything else in between.

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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 21 Apr 2019, 17:36

I don't have all the answers, but it seems reasonable to expect a decent response time from any operating system. I know you have the Home editions of Windows and that is what came with the laptop I recently purchased. Many of the store bought computers are in fact altered versions of Windows that do not run as smoothly as the unaltered versions. Also, Windows 10 is a resource hog. Like it or not you need to have the right hardware in order to achieve maximum performance. You do recall, for example, what adding RAM does for system performance. I'd speculate that most WalMart sold computers are bare minimum machines. Windows 10 will work on those kind of boxes, but not very well.

The MSI laptop I purchased did seem to run slower even though the hardware was at least three generations higher than the old laptop. I blamed it on Windows 10 Home and the fact that the OEM customized the software. When I moved over to the Insider Preview, I also upgraded to Windows 10 Pro. There was not a whopping improvement in performance, but I could tell things are moving along better. I still have a lot of the specialty software installed and am using a mechanical hard drive with minimum RAM. Once I change all those things, you and I can have a contest to see who's machine is running faster. LOL

I think it was a mistake for Microsoft to offer the Home edition, but they were in a bind at the time. They needed to convince people to switch over to their "new and improved" operating system and the Home edition was an acceptable bridge. It apparently isn't a high performance operating system. I know this because it was sluggish on my super whiz bang lappie. To be fair I didn't want to make the hardware improvements with the Home edition so that I don't really know if it is possible to make it better. I can say with certainty that it is not Microsoft's best product for the home user.

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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 22 Apr 2019, 12:02

I think what I really don't understand about Mickey$oft is why they abandoned really great OS's they developed.

They came a long way in the development of Windows XP, all versions, well except the MCE version.
Everyone loved XP, including me!

When they came out with the Ultimate Spyware OS they called Vista, they really POed one hell of a lot of people.
Which turned out to be a boon for the Linux community, as the number of Linux user made a major jump back then.

All you hear from people running Windows 10 are complaints, but being it's the only OS they know or understand, they tolerate all the problems and simply live in their misery.

Heck, even you agree Win 10 is bloatware to the max. Their new and improved is a major step backwards for most Windows users.

What it looks like to the rest of the world is they only wanted to push a new OS before it was ready and to make sure they could they force fed it to millions of users who really didn't want it.

If they were smart, they would reintroduce Windows XP and make sure whatever new is needed is added to that OS, and forget about trying to change something that worked perfectly into a piece of junk nobody likes.

You Yogi are the only person I know who seems to think Windows is still the greatest thing since a pocket on a shirt.
Although everyone I know uses Windows, none of them are happy with the direction Windows has gone.
Too slow and too many problems with it now.
People shouldn't have to spend a fortune to buy a computer so it will be capable of running an overly bloated slow Windows OS. But they simply don't know any better, and are afraid to step out of their box and give Linux a try.
Sad to say, most of them are probably not smart enough to use even the turn-key Linux Distro's.

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yogi
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 22 Apr 2019, 15:46

There is an old axiom in psychology that says people only behave in ways that please them: Freud's Pleasure Principle. The equivalent in the high tech world is that people only do what is easiest to do. Linux never figured that out because they were going in a free and open source direction instead of one that is "easy" to use. I'm certain you think Linux is easy in spite of the mysteries in it's shell, but you got to that point via a learning curve and out of necessity. Most people won't switch because doing so isn't easy for them.

There have only been a few major transitions in the life of Microsoft Windows. The first was Windows 3.1 to Windows NT. They went full "Windows" at that point in their development and there was no way for the 3.x series to perform the tasks that an NT OS could perform. That transition eventually led to XP with was the culmination of refining Windows 95, Windows 98 et. al.. At the time Windows XP became popular the Windows OS was fully refined and loved by many people the world over. But it took six years of intermediate operating systems to get to that point.

All things considered, Windows XP was the best OS Microsoft ever produced up to that point in time. But then came 64-bit processors, something Bill Gates had nothing to do with. Everybody wanted the new processors, but XP was not designed to handle them. I guess there was in fact a Windows XP Professional that did embrace 64 bit technology. Unfortunately the technical world did not stand still so that Microsoft could perpetuate XP ad infinitum. So a new NT kernel was invented and designed explicitly for 64 bit processors, and Windows Vista.

Vista was a mistake but a necessary one. The world around Microsoft was moving away from 32 bits and Microsoft had to change something to keep pace. It is said Vista was rushed to market before it was fully developed. Maybe, maybe not. In any case it wasn't until Windows 7 matured to perfection somewhere around 2010 that the new NT kernel and the OS's attached to it finally took over the "Best Operating System Ever Invented By Microsoft" title.

I don't know exactly what happened. I think it had a lot to do with Bill Gates retiring and leaving the company but once again Microsoft missed the boat when technology changed and their operating systems didn't. This time mobile devices became a thing for which Microsoft nearly went out of business because it had no presence in that market. Thus, like Windows 95, and Vista before it, the knee jerk reaction from Redmond was Windows 8. Nobody liked it because like it's benchmark predecessors it was an entirely new way of doing things. It was not "easy" for people to adapt.

We are now on Windows 10 which will become the flagship OS for Microsoft. But, it's too late for them to resume their dominance as they once did. Apple, Google, and a host of other companies are there already and Microsoft is still trying to figure out what to do. Don't kid yourself, my friend. They will figure it out just like they did in the past. And, just like in the past, you will not be able to run the old OS, albeit very refined, on new hardware.

To answer your question regarding why Microsoft can't just leave well enough alone, they would be out of business if they did. Think about it. What if you could buy Windows XP today from Microsoft and only Windows XP? If they did what you propose and modified it to be a modern operating system, then it would no longer be Windows XP. It would be Windows 10.

I'm happy with Windows 10 because I understand where it is in the development cycle. I don't expect much from it. I also have Windows 7 as my default operating system. LOL Come January 14, 2020 I will have to make a decision about my continued use of Windows. I thought Linux Mint was the answer, but the more I learn about it's problems with EFI I'm having second thoughts. And if I'm the only guy you know who can see the benefits of using Windows 10, you need to make more friends.
:lmao2:

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Kellemora
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 23 Apr 2019, 14:05

I really honestly and truly liked Windows 3.0, 3.11, 95, 98, and XP, XP Pro, and even XP PRO MCE, although the MCE part really caused a lot of problems because it required different drivers than XP PRO or XP Home for that matter.

After DOS, because I always used Windows, I learned with each new program the unusual way in which they did something. I may not have known why they did something the way they did, but it was their way, and we learned each new change as they were rolled out.

That being said. If you took someone who did not know diddly squat about computers, or the programs used on them, and you decided to teach them either how to use Windows programs, or how to use Linux programs, once again starting from scratch. I'm sure you will find they can learn to use Linux programs a whole lot faster and easier than using Windows programs. For the simple reason, there is LOGIC to how Linux programs are set up. Something blatantly missing from programs written for Windows.
I've given the example of msWORD's illogical structure many times in the past. Formatting a Page has nothing at all to do with FILE SYSTEMS, so why is Page Format under the FILE SYSTEMS tab? Illogical.

I will agree that someone who learned on Windows would have a difficult time unlearning the ms way and learning the Linux ways. But if the roles were reversed, I'm sure they would find Windows much harder to learn than Linux, if Linux is what they cut their teeth on.
Hell, I can't do diddly squat with this Windows10 machine, and neither could the frau, and this is why she went back to using an old Win7 machine. At least it made a little sense. Also consider my frau has fancy schmancy Schmartz-Fones and handles them with ease. Which is something I think Windows10 is driving at, turning their OS into like a Schmartz-Fone OS.

Although it can be most confusing to people considering Linux. We don't have ONE desktop theme, we have hundreds. So to figure out which one they would like to use could be a daunting task, even for the seasoned Linux user.
I doubt very much your Linux Mint desktop looks anything like my desktop, and probably does not have the many features I have on my desktop either. I forget how many different desktops are available for Linux Mint, but the one I use more closely emulates the early classic desktop designs.

Just something to ponder over. Remember how we were taught to keep our desktops as clean as possible, not have files helter-skelter all over the desktop. We all keep some, but the name of the game was keep the desktop clean and clutter free.
It is OBVIOUS with the new Schmartz-Fones and Windows10 desktop that they threw cleanliness out the window and replaced it with a screen full of CLUTTER. Rather than a simple drop down box, they now have all the massive icons spread out on the screen with scroll bars to scroll through all of them. I'm sure there is a way to change this, although if you look around, nobody does, their screens are loaded with nothing but one icon after another. CRAZY!

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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 24 Apr 2019, 14:18

All I can say about your comments regarding "logical" is that you are consistently making the same error in your comparisons. MS Word is not Windows. It is not the operating system behind it. OpenOffice is not Linux, or any distribution thereof. It is a program run inside a Linux environment. If you have issues with the way things are laid out, and I do concede they are valid, the operating system should not be blamed for what a programmer did or did not do when they developed the program. Windows is not faulty because MS Word doesn't fit your definition of logic. MS Word may be difficult for you to use but I fail to see how that is an indictment of Windows the operating system.

Cinnamon, Unity, Gnome, KDE Plasma, XFCE, LXDE, MATE, Pantheon, and Trinity are merely top ten desktop environments for Linux. It's really hard for me to understand how a well organized, clutter free, simple architecture oriented person would find all those choices (and there are dozens more) easier to use than a single desktop environment that can be customized per an individual's needs. Different strokes for different folks, i guess.

The other issue I'm certain you understand completely but still find fault in is the fact that mobile computing has taken over a major part of what used to be desktop computing. Drop down menus, for example, work fine with a mouse but are impossible to see or tap with your finger on a smarphone or tablet. The reason you see more and more of those huge finger sized icons is because that is how the mobile world operates. You are doing the right thing by not migrating over to such an environment. Most of what you do on a computer cannot be accomplished on a mobile device.

Windows 10 is indeed a hybrid of desktops and mobile devices. Microsoft is doing a fantastic job of trying to teach people how to move on to the next generation of computing. But, as you point out so often, a lot of people do not need to learn. That doesn't make the new way of doing things improper or less productive. The coffee shop I went to this morning is a good example of what I'm talking about. It's all paperless. The gal serving us had a mobile device with a custom app on which she entered our order. That information went directly to the kitchen while she was standing at our table. No more paper tags for this place. This is a simple example of what is happening out there, but it is a sea change. Things aren't what they used to be and the way computers work now and days must keep pace or die.

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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 25 Apr 2019, 10:51

Bill Gates hired Charles Simonyi and Richard Brodie to create msWORD for Windows.
I agree a program is not the operating system. The program is still illogical, and owned by Mickey$oft.

My cousin worked for RGIS, and inventory taking company, for a few years.
They wear a WiFi device on their belt, with a keypad where they enter the sku number and product count.
They can do this by hand FASTER than using a scanner to capture the sku and then enter the number.
You should see them at work some time.
All their data is going back to a computer in their van parked outside, with a copy going over the Internet to their offices.

One of the restaurants we eat at here now uses a similar device on their belt. It is nothing at all like the touch-screen at the waitress station. It uses buttons just like the RGIS machine, and looks about the same. I assume they have to memorize the code for every item, and every option for that item.
I've never been able to see exactly what they were doing, but I do know they press a couple of buttons for which table you are at, and another button for which seat at the table you are sitting. Then they add the order info. What they do when someone changes their mind and says they decided they didn't want the cheese after all, but would like salsa instead, hi hi.

The biggest problem with everything going to computerized electronics is when you are at the checkout counter and the electric goes out, or the system goes down. They no longer have the capability of totaling your order up on a paper bag so you can pay and get out of there. No hand cranks on the registers for when the electric does fail, etc.
What's going to happen after an EMT attack? We will be at a total standstill and no one will know how to do anything the old tried and true way that worked for thousands of years!

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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 25 Apr 2019, 15:11

Motorola operated under perpetual inventory. When the parts arrived on the dock they were scanned. They didn't bother to count the parts manually but assumed the vendor sent the right amount. The vendors were penalized if they didn't. The parts' pieces were tracked from the dock to the warehouse to the production lines and out the door as they were built into products. This was all done with barcode scanners and scales. The inventory was kept low because deliveries were "just in time." This had some kind of tax advantage I didn't really understand. Once in a while some auditor would raid the warehouse and sample a few parts to see that the physical count matched what was in the computer system. If it didn't match then a manual count had to be done. This system was a massive improvement over the first couple years I worked for the company when they shut down for two weeks at the end of the year to count parts. I understand that something similar is still going on, but with no humans involved. :eek:

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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 26 Apr 2019, 11:02

Being raised in a business where all of the Parts were Perishable, we had to do something similar to what you guys did.
We would buy something like roses, and although they are packaged 25 to a sleeve, we did not count eaches.
We may buy 50 sleeves of roses, which should be enough to make 104 vases of a dozen roses each. Except, some got broken, some wilted or didn't look real hot, and what we didn't sell that day in vases, was used up in same day funeral arrangements the next day.
We looked at Yield. This Lot of roses yielded 75 vases of roses, and 10 second day arrangements. How many roses were used in the second day arrangements didn't matter. It could be 6, 8, a whole dozen, or even 14 roses.

The non-perishable items were our inventory nightmare, and we often bought certain items by an entire railroad boxcar full to get the lowest possible price. Then of course we had storage costs for those items, as well as the tax on excess inventory.
Just like equipment has a depreciation value which must be taken over a specific set of years.
Inventory has the opposite, excess inventory is taxed by current value minus cost basis, and the difference is taxed like income. Sorta like interest income because the inventory became more valuable. At least storage cost was an expense deduction, but it usually didn't make up for the tax on excess inventory.

From about 1972 through 1984 when we closed, I found a way around the florist having to deal with non-perishable inventory problems like I mentioned above. My brother and I leased the warehouse from the florist for a super low price. So now, all they had to show was income from leased property, which they were already doing for other properties or buildings, so it was no added burden to the florist.

This was so long ago, I'm trying to remember the reason why we did not have to maintain an actual inventory count for the government. Seems like it was because we counted each railcar of goods as a Lot Number is all. How much was in the boxcar didn't matter. It really didn't matter how long something was in storage, because we used a LIFO inventory system. So if Boxcar A held 500 cases (we didn't say of what), and Boxcar M held 500 cases (we didn't say of what), when the florist would order 5 cases of item 217, these cases were deducted from Boxcar A's 500 count, even though what they bought really came from Boxcar M.
Now internally we kept a count of how many cases of each item we had on hand, so we knew when to stock up on those items as they ran low. But as far as sales go, it was like the age old Boxes and Barrels method of accounting used in the 1800's.
When we sold 500 cases, Boxcar A was considered empty, and we moved to Boxcar B for sales.
It may sound complicated, but it was actually a very simple method of accounting for government purposes.
The main thing about it was, no Boxcar Lot Number was ever in the system for an entire year, thus no excess inventory from that Lot Number or Boxcar Number or Letter.
Heck, some items may have been in the warehouse for 5 or 6 years, because we may have bought two or three boxcars full to get it for next to nothing.
A good example of this is when Hydrofoam Company went out of business. We not only bought their entire inventory, but had them produce as much as they could with all the raw materials they had on hand for making their product.
This was a good buy because we got it all for less than six cents on the dollar, and were the only florist who still had Hydrofoam. We did not sell it, and were running out as 1984 rolled closer. The last year in business we actually had to use Oasis brand foam for some things, due to not enough Hydrofoam, which we saved only for casket sprays by then.

Sorry, did mean for this boring topic to get so long.

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yogi
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 27 Apr 2019, 10:39

No need for apologies. Your memories are not just good reading but also educational in many cases.

I guess this excess inventory tax was explained to me many years ago, but I forgot all about it. My best buddy was an accountant for Amoco Oil Company and his job was to determine the cost of the crude oil at various points in the supply chain. Amoco had tankers instead of boxcars but the same kind of inventory rules applied. The huge problem for my accounting friend was that the oil in any given tanker might have come from different wells at varying cost levels. To make matters even more complicated the oil in transport from, say, the Middle East to Houston changed price several times a day. Not only that, but the oil might have changed ownership as well. The contents of a tanker could have been bought and sold several times before it reached its destination port. Talk about headaches trying to determine a cost basis for that kind of inventory. :blimey:

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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 27 Apr 2019, 12:21

I understand FULLY what your accountant friend was going through.
Although Oil technically isn't perishable, we had the same scenario in the flower and plant business.
Probably the same for grocers selling Bread and Produce.

The flowers sold by the Distributors on Wholesale row come from many different growers. Age and Quality play a huge rule in the price of flower, as does volume purchases. The value of their inventory begins declining even before the product is placed in stock to sell.

A florist will call up and say we need 1000 yellow mums A quality, 3000 white mums A quality, fresh; and 1000 white mums either B quality fresh or day old A quality, and if your stuck with 1000 day old B quality we'll take those too.
This is what one of our orders may look like to the sellers down on Wholesale Row.
In order to fill our order, they may contact other sellers on Wholesale Row, so what we end up with may have not only come from different growers, through different Distributors, but also through several sellers on Wholesale Row. Yet we pick them all up at the same Wholesaler.

We get these all into our shop, tagged and placed in the coolers. Our sale price on each is different and has one price today, another lower price tomorrow, and a rock bottom price the next day. If we don't use them all, what we couldn't use up goes into the Dumpster and we pay to have them hauled away as garbage.

Imagine the accounting on Wholesale Row, it has to be ten times worse than our accounting for the florist.

The accounting in a business that deals with perishables truly is a nightmare, yet bakers, grocers, and even restaurants are dealing with perishable merchandise every day, and each has their own way of accounting for the goods they buy and sell. Then look at us, we owned our own greenhouses and raised a lot of our own cut flowers, where not only is timing a major concern, but so is the weather, and amount of sunshine which throws the timing way off sometimes.

Every try to sell 20,000 poinsettias the day after Christmas? They have no value then.
Or you could be like my uncle Clarence and buy 10,000 poinsettia cuttings, and plant them in pots, for a combined cost of $3.50 each, then raise them for six months in the greenhouses, and turn around and sell them for $3.00 each. Talk about a loss, but what happened is too many growers raised poinsettias that year, and each would undercut the other on price to get rid of them before they had zero value.
Not a phun business at all Yogi!

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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 28 Apr 2019, 08:56

Alstroemeria is one of my favorite flowers to see in a bouquet. I am simply fascinated by long stem roses as well. My attraction to those flowers is that they seem impossible to produce. LOL I've grown many a rose, even the so called long stem variety, but never end up with what I see in the flower shop. The truly amazing part is that in February (Valentines Day) you can get all the gorgeous long stem roses your bank account can handle. Each one is fresh and gorgeous looking. How do they do that given that they were probably imported from some other continent ?

Anyway, back to Alstroemeria. I liked them so much that I decided to grow them. It took forever to find a seed company who could sell me the seeds, and then the seeds came with special growing instructions. The flowers are native to Chili and Peru and apparently grow in winter. The seeds I bought had to be put into the freezer for a certain number of weeks to simulate the climate in the Andes Mountains. If I recall correctly I also had to split the shell of the seed in order to encourage germination. Well I had successfully started a dozen plants or so and put them in my screened in porch so that they would get filtered springtime sunlight. They exceeded my expectations while sitting in the pots. But, after I cut some for an arrangement to take indoors, they wilted very quickly. So, the question again is, how do the florists keep them fresh for so long and how do they survive the journey from Chile?

You florists are miracle workers.

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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 28 Apr 2019, 11:40

I'll start with the Roses. While you may have a rosebush or a few growing in your yard, you allow all of the branches to grow and produce roses. When raising for cut flowers, all of the branches are trimmed off, and only one, sometimes two roses allowed to grow per bush. Actually it is more than that, but at different stages of growth.
As the bushes themselves grow too tall, since they only have like four stems on each bush, they will cut back so the rose may have a couple of dog legs on it.

In a similar way, this is why you may get a lot of smaller tomatoes, but not the big juicy ones you get from the store.
Tomato growers not only sucker their plants, but they limit the number of branches, and also terminate the plant to stop it from growing higher, thus forcing all the nutrients into the 4 to 6 tomatoes they allow to remain on the plant.

There are several tricks to extend the life of cut flowers, some are common knowledge like sugar and vinegar or a use a flower preservative.
But the real key to longevity is how fast the flowers when cut are treated and chilled.
There are several steps both from the field, and before putting them in a vase that a typical flower goes through.
In a nutshell, you can't just go into the greenhouse, or field, cut an armload of flowers and drop them in a vase, they will wilt down for sure due to an airlock in the stem.

Maybe if I explain it this way, think of a flower stem as a slow moving siphon hose. The second you cut the stem from the parent it starts sucking air into the stem, thus breaking the siphon affect, also the end dries out rapidly.
After we cut an armload of flowers, we immediately take them to the cool preparation room, where the stems are recut and the flowers placed in a tall flower bucket of cold water, then they are placed in the 34 to 36 degree flower coolers.
The flower buckets themselves are sterilized using a bleach based sanitizer, rinsed and allowed to dry.
When they are filled with cold water, a small amount of liquid preservative is added to cold water.
Then the flowers are added to the bucket, the bucket placed in the cooler for their hardening off period.
Once hardened off, they may then be used to make flower arrangements, or if we have too many flowers to use up fast, some will get moved into hyperbaric storage, which is just a fancy name for a flower cooler held at 31 degrees. Yes, one degree below freezing, this causes them to stay dormant, at least for a few days, without shortening their normal lifespan in an arrangement.

OK, time to make a flower arrangement.
A powder type floral preservative (basically a vegetable based sugar and a little dried vinegar) is added to the vase along with cool water.
Some delicate flowers require cutting their stems under water to prevent an airlock. But most cut flowers you simply cut the stem at an angle at the desired length for placement in the arrangement. The motion of picking up the flower from the table, cutting the stem at an angle, and plunging it into the vase should be rapid and sure, so as not to give enough time for a vapor lock to take place in the stem. Always use a sharp knife, not a pruning shear or scissors which will collapse the stem and/or force the water from the veins causing an airlock.
The exception is some cut flowers require the stems to be splintered by smashing them with a hammer.
Once the arrangement is completed, it should go back in the cooler for hardening off again, before being wrapped and set out for delivery.

As far as overseas shipping of cut flowers, each type of cut flower undergoes a different treatment most suitable for that type of flower. The most delicate of flowers are usually hardened off and placed in hyperbaric storage until ready to be shipped. Then the wax lined cartons they are shipped in are often filled with CO2 gas mainly to expel the oxygen. They are normally shipped under refrigeration. If the flowers are really delicate, there is a water supply tube added to each stem, and or a foam water block is placed in the box and each flower is stuck into this foam block.

As far as taking a flower from your garden for placement in a vase. Bring a vase of water with you out to where you are cutting the flowers from. The second you cut the flower using a knife not a clipper, place it in water. It wouldn't hurt to have the water as cold as possible, and add a punch of sugar. Granulated sugar is always preferred over cane sugar, for nearly everything imaginable. Cane sugar contains undissolved organic carbon, which in the case of cut flowers, although rare and depends on the flower itself, it could clog the tiny veins that draw up the water.
Then, if you can place them in your refrigerator for a couple of hours to harden up, they should last almost as long as those you get from a florist.
The whole key is do not let air get into the stems causing an airlock, and get them cooled down as quickly as possible after cutting. Remember, you just cut off their source of nutrition and life with that knife.

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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 28 Apr 2019, 14:07

I've been doing some of those things some of the time for all my gardening life. LOL Thank you for putting it all together and explaining how to coordinate the necessary steps for producing a viable bouquet of flowers. I knew about the siphoning effect of the flower stems, but I had no idea it acted so quickly. At one point in time I had a special knife with a curved blade to do exactly what you describe during the cutting process. The blade got dull and I got lazy and never thought a clean cut was all that important. I also have been told by a few "experts" that the angle is important, but I never put a lot of confidence into that notion. In any case I am very grateful for the time you took to put it all down on (pixel) paper. All I need now is a garden so that I can apply the new techniques I've learned.

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Kellemora
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 29 Apr 2019, 11:09

When one is raised in the business, we often don't think of the reason why we do something the way we did, other than the old adage, if it wasn't the way grandpa did it, we don't do it, hi hi.
Everything we did was more or less an unchanging rote routine day in and day out, step after step.

I remember we had some orders to get out and were out of a certain common flower normally used in those arrangements.
So I just ran down to the greenhouses were we raised cut flowers and cut enough of the variety I needed to fill the order.
Turned out to be a waste of time and materials. The two large arrangements I made, even though I put them in the finished arrangements cooler, were both down like a sack and had to be tossed in the trash.
That's when dad gave me a refresher course on the importance of following grandpa's way of doing things.
At the time, it seemed like a waste of manpower and labor to go through all those steps. But I quickly learned why each step was important, and decided, if it's not the way grandpa did it, we don't do it. In regards to flowers that is, else I would have never got to add computers to our company, hi hi.

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yogi
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 29 Apr 2019, 12:38

I can relate to the wisdom that comes with age. The only problem there is trying to figure out who taught grandpa how to do things? I recall reading once about how adept the ancient Egyptians were at agriculture. There weren't that many generations of people ahead of them to learn things from scratch and pass it on to their descendants. Either it's a lot easier than we think or they were inspired by visiting aliens. LOL

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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 30 Apr 2019, 15:09

Being raised in the greenhouse business was not enough for me to learn everything necessary to develop my hydroculture system. It took years of trial and error to find exactly which combinations of nutrient and what types of aggregate worked well together. Then came the problem of controlling the absorption and release of the nutrient from the aggregate, while maintaining the proper humidity inside the pot for plant growth.
All in all, it took me about 18 years to fully perfect my unique growing system.

My great-grandfather was an experimenter as well, and had three of his greenhouses built just for what today is called hydroponics. He did this in the 1890's, and the word hydroponics was not invented until 1934.
He had millions of problems they do not have today at all, or since the advent of plastics.
He had concrete benches and tanks, steel pipes, and brass valves.
Nutrient is SALTS, which corrode everything, which causes bad stuff to leach into the water.
Not to mention electrolysis which eats brass and steel when used together.
He had to learn all of that the hard way, by doing it to see what happened.

How did he overcome those obstacles?
On the plumbing, he used glass tubing everywhere he needed rigid tubing, and rubber hoses where he needed flexibility.
In the concrete vats and growing benches, he coated them first with tar which didn't work, so he cleaned all of that out and used boiled tree resin lining everything concrete.
Even after he figured all that out, there was still much to learn about aggregates and nutrients.
And Ironically, nothing he learned about how to do his systems would work for my systems which was a different technique altogether. Also, time had marched many years forward by the time I started experimenting with hydroculture.

What got me going is when I learned the Ancient Hanging Gardens of Babylon were true hydroponics!
Not like the Chinampas of the Aztecs, which still used organic materials on floating rafts, which had to continually be replaced. Still a great study though.

If you ever have some free time and feel like reading what research I wrote about hydroponics, here is a link to my article:
I think you will find the first part, about the PAST the most interesting.

http://stonebrokemanor.classichauslimit ... thydr.html

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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 01 May 2019, 11:08

Thanks for the link, Gary. I read most of it and was duly impressed with your compilation of of historical facts. It's not exactly a scholarly work in that it's missing original source references to most of the claims therein, but the information is nonetheless informative and enlightening. The overall message about the role of hydroponics in our future is undeniable. As we approach the 10 billion population count on this planet earth, we will also be approaching the limits of the earth's ability to feed all these people. Hydroponics has a great future in that regard if we can get the costs of desalination under control.

In a side note I want to mention my recent experience with tomatoes. A couple weeks ago I called in a fellow to take care of the sink hole in my front yard. He was a farmer but is now into landscaping. His business is located about twenty miles west of here and I'm on the edge of his reach. We get along well and before he gave me an estimate for the work he asked if I like tomatoes. I do and he gave me two of the best looking fruits I've seen in a long while. He said they were given to him by some Mennonite friends who ran a greenhouse operation. I commented that these tomatoes looked better than anything I've seen in the stores since last September. His claim that they taste better proved to be true. But, the best part of the deal is that I used the second tomato last night for dinner. I had it for at least ten days and there was no sign of it going bad, which is way different than the 5 day shelf life of Schnuck's produce. While I don't know for certain, I have a feeling the Mennonites who grew these tomatoes used hydroponic techniques. As your article points out, they taste better and last a lot longer than the conventionally grown ones. Amen to that brother.

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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 02 May 2019, 14:01

If you still have those tomatoes, you may want to save a few seeds from them.

The two varieties of tomatoes I raised hydroponically were Supersonic and Jet Star. Don't know if you can even find them today anymore. But back in the late 1970s and early 1980s, they were the number one choice of hydroponic growers.
If you planted both at the same time, about the time the Supersonic were done bearing fruit, the Jet Star would start turning red. Great combination back in the day. And they worked in almost all forms of hydroponics from nutrient film, to flood and drain. Although most folks used tube-o-ponic systems for tomatoes.

The original of my story did have all the sources in the back of the book. That was just one chapter, chapter 9 I think it was of a larger tome I had written for the industry. Rather than use superscript numbers in the text, the source pages were part of the end notes and referred back to the applicable pages in the book. The only reason I was able to recover that chapter is someone liked it and after hearing of our floods, sent a copy of it back to me, along with some other chapters they thought I would want back.

I probably should take the time to go back and add the sources back, if I could remember where each came from, and if those books and articles even still exist.
I know I spent a long time trying to find an article in a magazine concerning some later work I did. I was so proud to have a copy, lost it in the flood too. Been trying to find it ever since, but I don't think the magazine even exists anymore.
The headline topic was about the Endotherm Greenhouse at EPCOT, mainly about the construction crew bosses, one was called Uncle Bob, and he too was mentioned in the article. But those key words have never brought up anything.

Our Internet was out all morning, again, so I'm running super behind on everything today. Grrr.

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