Another Win For Linux

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yogi
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 23 May 2019, 14:22

Charter is a mass media company and Spectrum is one of the services they sell. I actually am subscribed to Spectrum but send the monthly checks to Charter. LOL At least that's the way it is broken down where I live. Charter has a lot of services and I suppose they could offer them under their own name. What I find interesting is that Spectrum would be in the same market, thus Charter competing with itself. That's not an unusual tactic, but it does squeeze out the competition.

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Kellemora
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 24 May 2019, 10:30

I could be wrong. It's like Comcast is also Xfinity. You can get either in a Comcast area. Perhaps that's the way it is with Charter?

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yogi
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 24 May 2019, 12:14

They are the same, but different. LOL
READ THIS: https://www.cabletv.com/blog/what-is-xf ... om-comcast

Apparently Comcast is the parent company which formed Xfinity in an attempt to distinguish itself from the rest of it's holdings. Yeah, that's exactly like Spectrum, the child of Charter which is into bigger and better things.

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Kellemora
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 25 May 2019, 09:38

Since we do not have TV, but they stuck us on Xfinity for our Internet ONLY connection now.
We have noticed it is a slight bit slower than when we were on Comcast Internet ONLY.
Can't complain though about the speed, it is usually up over 50 to 60 and sometimes close to 100 mbps downloads.
Uploads are always in the 10 to 15 mbps range. Up from 4 to 6 on Comcast Internet.

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yogi
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 25 May 2019, 13:47

Since Comcast and Xfinity are using the same parent company infrastructure, the differences in performance must be due to management decisions.

My old DSL maxed out at 7 mbps but I never noted any problems. There were times when we had out of town guests and 6-7 connections to the router. Never saw or heard of a performance issue. File downloads were a different story. I'd get roughly 1 GB of data per hour downloaded on that DSL line. Here it takes roughly two minutes. I never downloaded big files until I converted to being a gamer. Streaming video and regular software downloads performed to my satisfaction. That's probably due to the tweaking of the hardware in the Silver Yogi. I'd guess that most homes can get away with 10 mbps download speed for their computer networks. I'm not talking Internet TV here, but still.

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Kellemora
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 26 May 2019, 10:40

I used Dial-Up my first three years down here, then we had Comcast for TV for a long time before Debi's son moved in and added Internet to the cable package. I still used Dial-up to get my e-mail from my St. Louis ISP until they moved it over so I could access it via the Internet.

Due to so many problems with Comcast TV, and soaring prices, we dropped Comcast TV but kept the Internet ONLY, which they jumped the price up to over 70 bucks a month for Internet ONLY connection. Besides charging us for equipment we owned every month. Long story there, but they scalped us for one grand before we got it figured out.
After much todo with them, they have finally dropped our Internet Only connection cost to 50 bucks a month.

We went with DirecTV satellite. They keep changing too and now use my WiFi to get most of the programming.
The good thing about that is, storms don't knock out the channels we get over the Comcast Internet, hi hi.

If I could get DSL, which I can't because of the bad phone lines down here. It would still be very slow for us.
Apparently DSL cuts your speed in half for each computer or device connected to the system.
If Debi and I are both on at the same time, trying to play Farm Town, plus I had another computer doing something else on-line, our speed would drop down below that of 56k dial-up. Or so I'm told by folks who have DSL and more than three people on at the same time. Then also, your speed has to do with how many neighbors are on DSL too.

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yogi
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 26 May 2019, 14:21

After dial-up I only had DSL up north. That lasted close to a dozen years. The price never changed, but then the service remained the same as well. 7 mbps max. I cannot verify the issue with speed over DSL. I can tell you that I've had at least seven connections to my router on occasion and nobody complained about lag. Of course only the kids were doing the streaming, but I'm fairly certain we all shared time at the 7 mbps rate. I had a graphical sniffer attached to my router and could look at the data stream live. There was always an increase in bandwidth (sorry, I know you don't like that term) but performance did not seem to be affected. I know it has a lot to do with the kind of apps running at any given time. Just because 7 people are connected doesn't mean 7 streams are flowing constantly. Anyway, this was all with a company called Earthlink which connected to the Sprint network. Great company as far as I'm concerned as long as you don't mind talking to India for tech support. That's not a complaint by the way. I couldn't figure out the voice half the time, but my problems always were resolved in a timely manner.

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Kellemora
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 27 May 2019, 09:01

We have a company down here offering DSL for Seniors for only 9.99 per month, unlimited usage.
But they don't give much information, like the download and upload speeds after you cross a certain download amount.
I suspect it is basically for e-mail and web surfing and not much more.

A gal my frau works with lives in an apartment behind a restaurant with free WiFi, so it's the only thing she is using.
She said some days it is really slow, other days it is really fast. It is usually slow right after school, and then again from around 7pm to 9pm, other than that, it usually runs pretty fast. But there is a timer one hour timer on their router that cuts her off, but she reconnects again right away for another hour. I guess they don't log who's using it?
A few other restaurants where our writing club would meet, they gave you an access number on your receipt. It was good for two hours. Then you had to buy something again to get another access number. They do have free WiFi, but it is on a 15 minutes timer, and then you are locked out.

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yogi
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 27 May 2019, 10:48

Every router is capable of logging each user's ID (IP and MAC address). That's how it knows where to send the data packets. I suppose you could get hard copies or digital logs off a router if you had the right firmware, but in most cases it isn't very useful. You might see the same MAC address on your network every day all day, but you don't know where it is located. Could be in the store, could be a neighbor, could be an FBI officer parked down the street. :grin:

The businesses that offer free WiFi do it for the good will it generates. It's not intended to be a way for neighbors to steal a connection to the Internet. The timers limit the good will, but most people don't notice them. I'd guess there are some heavy duty gigabyte routers in those free public WiFi hot spots, but even they can be bogged down with too much traffic. The processors running the routers are not PC quality, nor is there a lot of memory to service them. The slowdowns probably are due to rush hour traffic. I don't know if you can deliberately throttle the throughput in a regular router.

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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 28 May 2019, 10:06

I often wonder what kind of deal businesses get with the cable company to allow them to use two modems?
I know it is just a matter of the cable company to assign an IP number to the MAC address.
But when I wanted to do it here at the house, using a regular modem for the computers, and a WiFi modem for the portable devices, they said no can do. So I just plugged the regular router into the WiFi router, or vice versa, don't remember anymore.

Then I turn around a year or two later and discover Abernathy's Restaurant has only one cable, yet is running four separate modems. They have a router that connects their food service computers with the home office off one modem, which also handles the credit card terminals. Another router for the managers own computer off another modem he owns, and two WiFi routers, one for private use, and the one open to the public, each on different modems I think.
It could be the WiFi router for private use is connected the managers own personal modem.

Most recently I did learn I could have a second modem if I wanted to pay for a second cable, even though only one cable would be coming into my house. But I'm not that afraid of WiFi anymore, now that I know how to lock out everyone except the connects I manually set up.

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yogi
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 29 May 2019, 11:12

I've not thought about multiple modems, but it seems pointless unless you are an ISP. There are limits to the number of data packets any modem can handle, but it's hard to see how a private individual could ever max out a modem's capabilities. The ISP is charging you for your connection to the Internet, which is accomplished via a modem. So, if you want two access points it only makes sense that you should be charged twice. The way to get around multiple modems to a single ISP is, obviously, to have more than one ISP. LOL That's pretty costly I would imagine.

I think you have the answer already and don't need two separate LANs. It can all be done with a router. You may need an industrial or military grade router to do what you want, but it is possible.

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Kellemora
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 29 May 2019, 14:01

In the case of Abernathy's, I think the reason for separate modems is so the corporate data cannot be compromised by someone using their Free WiFi. So the WiFi router is totally separate and connected to a separate modem.
As far as the manager having his own computer and modem, is probably just his choice, as he could probably use the public WiFi and not have to worry about anything.

When I set up my WiFi Router, I went through the manual, and a couple of websites to make sure I had it as secure as possible. Don't remember what all I did now, but there was a bunch of stuff.
I was also able to set up a second access for guests who visit my home, which has a different password than the one I and the frau use. This was the feature that sold me on the brand router I did buy.

So I imagine, the ones bought for use as public WiFi in restaurants probably has more than one access point, and only one is used for the patrons of the restaurant.
Then again, I got to thinking about that the last time we talked.
Each register receipt (within a given time frame) has a different password to access the WiFi than let's say, a customer 15 minutes before them.
So possibly, commercial WiFi routers have multiple access points, where a password can be set for each, and a length timer for each. Who knows, maybe they have a computer program handling all of this as part of their POS equipment?

Maybe I should just shut my yapper. I searched and found out the WiFi systems used in most restaurants cost between 500 and 1000 bucks if not more. They have multiple open guest links and several features, such as limited time, individual passwords, revolving passwords, timed passwords, and subscription hot links. And can LOG every device who connects to it, duration of time connected, and can be set to block public access from specific devices. WOW.

Also found out, unless you pay extra, residences on Comcast only allow one MAC address, unless you want to pay for them to record a second MAC address. The monthly cost is only about 1/4th the monthly cable fee.
However, commercial businesses get to use FIVE MAC addresses. Their credit card terminal often uses one of them, and their POS service uses another. That leaves three, one for the public WiFi, one for business corporate, and one unused.
Got that from an on-line Comcast Representative.

Now, if you are on Charter, when you sign up with Charter, they are supposed to ask if you will be using one or two modems. Some folks have a separate modem for the Internet HDTV, and one for their computers.
So It looks like Charter allows residences two MAC addresses per subscriber.

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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 29 May 2019, 15:48

I have this Cisco modem in front of me which was provided by Charter. This modem is the access point to the Internet and it does indeed have its own IP/MAC addresses. My phone (VOIP) plugs right into the modem as does my router and the cable from Charter, of course. Any LANs or sub nets that I want must be done via that router which is plugged into the modem. I never inquired but I'm guessing the modem throughput is in excess of 1 GB. I don't have any equipment that can match that (yet) so this modem is fine for my purposes.

If I wanted a stand alone secure local network, for example, I'd have to get another modem to which I would have to attach another router and do my secure thing. The two networks would be totally isolated, each having their own IP/MAC addresses. Never asked, but lit would surprise me if Charter didn't want my money to do that kind of thing.

My current router is a Linksys which is pretty sophisticated and can do most of the things you describe for restaurants. It records attached IP/MAC addresses but I don't think it can save a log file in the traditional sense. It's just not programmed into the router and certainly isn't an impossible thing to do. Many routers, my Linksys included, come with a "guest" option. This is a modified connection that allows guests to connect to the Internet, but nothing else. They can't see my NAS, for example. It is password protected and you could look up the default password that comes with any brand router. It would be interesting to try and log into any open networks you can see and use the default password. I bet not many people change it. In my case, I disable the guest login option. LOL

The reason those commercial routers are so expensive is that they have mini computers built into them to handle the traffic, passwords, timing, and logging tasks. Some routers actually have modems built into them, and I'm guessing those WiFi hotspots may have more than one modem. It's costing the business an arm and a leg to have all that, but as I pointed out earlier it's all for good will and/or security purposes. You can't really put a price on those things.

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Kellemora
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 31 May 2019, 09:50

The modem I'm on right now is exactly the same make and model that Comcast leased at the time I bought it.
It's a Motorola DOCsys 3.0
Several times they told me my modem was bad, when it was really their service was down.
So I ran out and bought a new one the first time. It is a better, more expensive modem, just sitting on the shelf collecting dust. Because when I tried to change to it, they said it didn't work either.
When the cable came back up again, the new modem was connected, and apparently they entered the MAC address when I was on the phone with them, only for them to tell me this modem was not working either.
Funny thing though, it worked fine. So I thought I would check the Motorola again, called them up and had them switch back to the that MAC address, and it also worked fine. So I'm still using it.
I planned on taking the other one back to the store but by the time I got around to it, they were out of business, hi hi.

Almost all of the peripheral equipment I have used over the years was LinkSys.
This was after getting burned by a company who changed names many times.
One of the names they used was 3Com, and I'm trying to remember their original name.
Perhaps it was Qualcom or something like that.
I bought one of their external dial-up, fax, phone, answering machine, with mailboxes, 55.6 modems.
Went through like five of them, and never had one that all the features worked.
But the thing about them that irked me the most, is their stand-alone modem only worked if it was connected to a computer and the computer was running.
This was a far cry from an external 22.6 modem I had previously for less than 1/3 the price too.
The external modem I had worked whether my computer was on or off, thus the purpose of a stand-alone unit.
It did have a limited amount of memory, or you could add an external HD to it.
It accepted FAX messages, had four Mailboxes, although I only used one, since I only had one phone number.
It would play a short message to a caller, and allow them to leave a voice message.
I could not get the FAX or voice message off the modem until I turned on the computer though, which was OK.
It never did run out of voice message or FAX message room, so I never added an external HD to it.

OK, back to the first sentence. Now I rarely buy LinkSys, because I've had too many of their products go bad on me.
My five port LAN switch only lasted about two years. My USB hubs only lasted about three years.
I replaced the LAN switch with an eight port TrendNet which has now been working flawlessly for over five years or longer. I replaced the original two port KVM with a CablesToGo TruLink four port KVM with three USB ports on the front.
I still have a few USB hubs in use also. Forget what equipment I have down at the house for Debi's hookups.

We had dinner last night at Ruby Tuesday's, they gave us a buy one get one free coupon for our Anniversary, which is June 1st, tomorrow. 18 years already.
I asked the server about their WiFi, he didn't know much, but sent the manager over to my table.
He said they have two separate cable modems, one for business use only and one for the public WiFi system.
He said corporate pays for it all so he didn't know if they paid extra to have two modems.
Their POS service uses the business router and modem. However, they have a POS system router and computer separate from the business computer, but both tie into a server computer and use the same modem as business.
He is not allowed to do any personal communications on the business computers, but he can connect his laptop to the public WiFi system if he ever had the time to do anything of a personal nature.

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yogi
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 31 May 2019, 14:25

Way back when I was first setting up a home network my main supplier was Best Buy. They stocked only a couple brands of routers but many models under those names. They were crap to put it nicely. You can't expect much from Best Buy, but that's a whole different story. By the time I divorced myself from the big box stores, Linksys was owned by Cisco. Cisco makes industrial grade equipment which was a plus in my book. I don't recall what model that first one was but it lasted more than a dozen years. The current Linksys router in my control center is maybe five years old and had never been turned off except during power outages. I was shocked when Charter installed my cable set up the day we moved in here. The tech plugged their cable into the modem which then plugged into the router. It was up and running without any settings having to be altered. Our computers never knew the difference between them being in Chicago or O'Fallon. It all worked immediately. Needless to say I am impressed with Linksys, which is owned by Belkin now.

It's interesting to read that you had problems with 3com. I bet you didn't know that HP owned that company. LOL

It was nice of the manager to explain their network to you. I would have been hesitant because I'd not want anybody to know the structure of my business network. For all that guy knew you were a hacker harvesting information to break into the system. I guess the folks in Tennessee are more trusting that us Chicago bred types. LOL

By the way, congratulations on your anniversary. Would you believe I've been married almost three times that amount of time? To the same woman in fact. Amazing. :thud:

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Kellemora
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 01 Jun 2019, 19:50

I'm once divorced (not my doing), and am TWICE a Widower, so I'm hoping this latest model holds up better than the last two, hi hi.

You have to remember, I've been a Ham Radio Operator since 1959, so got used to the higher quality Ham Apparatus.
Take a Packet Radio control station as an example. Although it connects to a computer to change setting, or see who all is on it, it basically is a stand alone unit.
It listens to radio signals over the air for an amateurs call sign. If it hears that call sign, it jumps into action to do whatever the inbound signal is telling it to do. Repeat the signal (acting as a repeater), accept the message and put it in that users mailbox, and send the station call sign every 15 minutes as required by FCC regulations.
It would also notify me if it heard my call sign so I knew if someone was sending a message to me.
With everything this little box had to do, they only sold for 45 to 150 bucks, mine was round 85 bucks because it had a dozen mailboxes in it.
Now, when you are used to such a cheap device doing ALL OF THAT, and holding all the data and messages.
Then it is only Logical to expect at Stand Alone Modem with Fax, and Answering Machine, and 4 mailboxes, to be just that Stand Alone. Not something that required it to be running from a computer program on your computer 24/7.
But not only that. I never had one where all the functions of it even worked. Grrr.

Glad to hear you could just move a zillion miles away and simply Plug n Pray and it all worked like a top!

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yogi
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 02 Jun 2019, 08:57

My router story seems amazing, but it's not, really. My LAN was configured and working on one side of the modem. Actually, I would not even need a modem if all I wanted was peer to peer communications. The WAN, the Internet, is on the other side of the modem. It's all Black Magic there and pervasive throughout the world. So, My LAN is more or less stand alone, as is yours and everyone else's, and can be plugged into the Internet anywhere in the world to still work like the LAN it was configured to be. As far as the router was concerned, it saw a new modem and self configured for that. No big deal for routers.

I'm wondering to myself how much that 1959 and $85 Packet Radio Controller would cost in 2019 dollars. Probably a lot less given it's all on one chip now and days. LOL That certainly was an impressive operation. Although I never got into packet radio, I can appreciate what was going on. It's trivial by today's standards. Any low end smart phone could outperform what that controller did/does. The price of the phone might be a bit more, but it's portable and can do a heck of a lot more than keep track of traffic. Heck, Google Maps website can do all that. LOL

The packet radio controller was simple and easy to understand. That was it's appeal. Today's technology is not so simple and designed to be not understood.

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Kellemora
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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 02 Jun 2019, 10:11

Before I forget.
The Silver Yogi has a WiFi card in it.
I assume it's a WiFi modem and not like a router. But it would still have to receive signals, right?
Here's the deal.
My brother bought a whole case of 24 WiFi security cameras to get the price down next to nothing.
He is sending me three or four of them for free. That is if he don't sell them first, hi hi.
So here is my question:
If I wanted to put one outside my office door, facing down the driveway, to see the back door of my house too.
Is it possible to view it through WiFi card on the Silver Yogi?
The ones I put on the house will use the WiFi router in the house.
Remember, my LAN is hardwired. I just don't know if you can have the WiFi card set to like read only, and have it on at the same time as the LAN.

OK on with the Packet Radio:
I was really big into packet radio, and was one of the major packet relay stations linked to the evergreen national system.
The reason I got so popular was my location for one, and the fact I had a 7-element Yagi pointed at the largest packet distribution center up north of me. This way folks from the southern counties could use my repeater to reach the distribution center. They could hear the distribution centers signal with ease, but couldn't reach it during transmission.
It was because of this traffic I opted for a more expensive packet controller than I first started with.
There was another benefit of using my station too. I was an ERRS station, so had my own independent power, if the electric went out, I was still on the air. Most of my equipment, the 440, 220, 2-meter, 6-meter and 10-meter radios were run on the independent power set-up. I could plug the 11-meter (CB) into the power supplies, but if I wanted to run HF, I had to turn off most of the other equipment as the HF drew a lot of current.

Don't know if you ever saw the wet cell backup batteries used in some Exit signs or not.
They are like Deep Cycle Marine Batteries, only smaller, and were individual 1.5 volt batteries a little larger than the old metal Band-Aid boxes. About the size of a small motorcycle battery, but only 1.5 volts each.
I had a vinyl plastic box that held 32 of these, each in their own slot in the box. Wired with 8 batteries to a set in series, then the four sets were wired in parallel to produce 12 volts at the outlets.
I did have an old style inverter to produce 110 volts too, but it was the kind that had to have a load on it or it would burn out. Not like today's UPS units. The plastic box had a small fan and was vented to outside, since wet cell batteries do put out harmful fumes. It really wasn't anything special, and was available from most ham centers in that era when I bought it. What I liked best about this system, is when a battery got weak or bad, this little thing on the top would show you its condition at all times. Sorta like that strip on the side of some flashlight batteries that turns yellow if the battery is good. I never understood how they worked since all the batteries were connected together, but they did pick out a battery that was going bad. Sometimes this was because I let the water get too low, and filling it back up restored it.
But after about eight years of use, they were all showing they were getting weak. But by then 12 volt UPS systems were available to hams. Long before UPS systems for computers became popular. A typical ham station would have 2 to 4 deep cycle marine batteries connected to the little 12 volt UPS box, which worked about the same way UPS systems do today, if the power goes out, they kick in, sorta, because they are always on, which is why they don't last so long I guess.

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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by yogi » 02 Jun 2019, 18:19

I had a backup sump pump in my old house and it ran off a deep cycle marine battery that I had to top off from time to time. It wasn't exactly the wet cells you are talking about but there were times when the sulfur oxide it gave off became obvious. We didn't have many power outages so that the battery was on charge most of the time. I only recall replacing it a few times during the thirty years we lived there.

I also have memories of Delco batteries for my car that had some kind of glass eye on it that changed colors to tell you about the condition of the battery. I always wondered how they did that. It was before the invention of LEDs.

The wireless card in the Silver Yogi is a transceiver, i.e. it can both send and receive. I'm pretty sure it's a Linksys and if you can pick the model number off of it you would be able to find a manual or two on the Internet. I'm guessing it uses one of the two (possibly both) standard WiFi frequency bands, and I seem to recall the possibility of setting up different channels that must be synced with it's counterpart.

Remote WiFi cameras typically are designed to operate over the Internet with an intermediary website that collects the image stream and forwards it on to you, for a price. Thus the camera has an IP and a MAC address just like the WiFi card. Most of those cameras can also be set up for peer to peer networking (no third party needed there), but then you would need software to store and display the incoming video. That might be supplied with the camera. The DS109 NAS you have can do that, but that means it may have to go through your router. It's likely that the camera has an Ethernet connector too. In that case you would not need wireless for the peer to peer connection, but you would have to have the storage and display drivers installed on the Silver Yogi.

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Re: Another Win For Linux

Post by Kellemora » 03 Jun 2019, 11:04

I've never lived in a house that needed a sump pump, but a few of the rentals I had down in the city had them.
Sure glad I'm out of that business, it drove me nuts.

On the Delco Eye. A very simple device. And one I had to get around to get a Patent on my Light and Nutrient Level Indicator for my Hydroculture Planting System.
The Delco Eye was made of Lucite is all, because it was short, less than 2 inches long if I recall.
While I needed light to travel 10 inches, so had to develop a way of treating a certain plastic so it emulated Red Line Glass rods. Although I finally succeeded and got a Patent because of it, they were a royal pain to have the rods made, because it tied up a machine for half a day before they could be run off the machine.
I used a plastic known as Polysulfone, because it had long-grain fibers in it, that if you kept cycling the plastic through the extrusion heads, those grains would eventually line up so they worked like fiber optics sorta.
Even having to run the machines on a continuous cycle for more than half a day before we could extrude the rods, it was still about 1/8th the cost of Red Line Glass.

How do they work, which includes the Delco Eye, same principle.
The ends of the rods are angled, like a pencil point sorta, but a much shallower angle.
This way the light traveling down the rod, reflects off the angle at the bottom at 90 degrees, then reflects off the other side of the cone which sends the light back up the rod so you see it as lighted dot on the top of the rod.
It is a little more complicated than that, because the rod itself must be in a liquid in order for it to reflect the light back up. Just the opposite of what you would think would happen.
Logically, if you stuck the cone end in water, the light would be diffused into the water.
But it is actually the material itself that makes it work the opposite of what you would think how it should work.
The reason for this is it is dark inside the battery, so adding the dark at the end of the rod makes it reflect back up.
When the rod is not touching water, there is no reflective surface for it to reflect back from.

As far as my Hydroculture Plants go, we had to eliminate the white decorative outer container, and only go with dark green or a dark terra cotta which blocked enough light from getting into the inside of the pot.
We eventually found that if we put a black sleeve over the rods, at least an inch longer than the rod itself, then we could use a white outer pot, however, the longest rod then gave a false reading because it was up off the bottom of the container. In other words, there was still an inch of nutrient in the pot when it showed it was dry and needed water.
It was just easier, and cheaper not to use white or light colored pots, or use the old mechanical water level indicators.

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