The End is Near

Ask questions and give answers about computers, mobile devices, game boxes, PC security and all manner of geeky stuff.
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Kellemora
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Re: The End is Near

Post by Kellemora » 08 Mar 2019, 10:43

Also Mickey$oft has more money than the lowly GPL licensing they are violating, so GPL cannot afford to go up against them.
When .docx first came out, there were several articles written about their using the .xml format and making proprietary changes to the old standard and calling it their own. .xml has always been Open Source as are most programming languages, free to use and not exactly protected by GPL licensing.

But a company has to be pretty low to steal an industry standard like .xml, make changes to it, then claim it as their own and compatible with .xml which it is not.
But I guess when you have most of the Money, you also have the lowest Morals!

I have nothing against Mickey$oft having their own proprietary software that they developed and promoted.
What I do hate is how they STEAL from the community developed software and then claim it as their own proprietary work.
You can't get much lower than that! Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
And that is just how I see Mickey$oft today! Take, Take, Take, and Take, without giving back anything.

Mickey$oft uses Open Source software for one heck of a lot of what they do, but do they help fund Open Source developers? Only if they hire them for their own greedy purposes. Do they honor GPL licensing, not one iota that I can see.

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yogi
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Re: The End is Near

Post by yogi » 08 Mar 2019, 15:37

It's a well known fact that Microsoft supports all the global standards that have anything to do with what they sell. In many cases their support goes beyond lip service. It's also well known that when you have as many customers as does Microsoft you are in a position to set the standards, or as you would like to say dictate them. I'm still amazed at the fact that GPL and FOSS and all the rest of the Linux community sit in the shadows of the likes of the Microsoft giant (Apple and Google included). It may all be the bee's knees, free, and better than Mickey$oft, but people aren't flocking to those easy to use freebies. They are instead paying a premium to use Windows, iOS, and Android (not Linux). I don't believe all those people are stupid.

Linux has been around since 1991 and doing one hell of a good job giving away free what other well established companies charge an arm and a leg for. That's 28 years and Microsoft is still # 1. Hard to believe that's the case when they are giving away something for free.

Did I mention that the main purpose of any business enterprise is to maximize profits? :lol:

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Kellemora
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Re: The End is Near

Post by Kellemora » 09 Mar 2019, 12:33

It's easy to understand because 99.99999% of Windows users don't really know how to even use Windows, much less anything else. Windows is what was dominant, so Windows is what they used, totally oblivious to anything else out there.
They buy and use what they are familiar with, and think anything else is too geeky for them.

That being said, most folks now have Schmartz-Fonz, so they did learn another operating system, usually Linux based, but they don't really know that, all they know is what they see on their screen that they can do with their toy.

Most folks who have a job where they enter data on a computer don't even know what type of computer they are on. They see the Screen Provided to them, do the work they are told to do, and that's about it. Although most companies use Windows computers for their employees because the likelihood of them being familiar with the other features of the computer is greater. But when you get into really big businesses, like banks and credit card handling companies, all they see is the screen they cannot get out of. It shows a log-in screen for them to get on, and a log-off screen when they are done. Sometimes they have to change to other programs, but this is via a Button on their provided menu. They have no idea they are working on UNIX, Linux, or Windows NT.

All users care about is if their computer comes on, and they can punch an icon to get the program they want to use.
Most could care less what is under the hood. And they pay dearly for this convenience!
Some people are wising up and downloading Linux programs reported so Windows users can enjoy them for free too.
Offering our programs to Windows users was an enticement to get them to consider Linux after they find out how great the programs really are, and that they are free. Well, they are free for Windows users too, so it loses some of the enticement.

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yogi
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Re: The End is Near

Post by yogi » 09 Mar 2019, 16:36

You touch on the two major points I see as being the gist of computer history.

The first point is that anybody outside of tech support doesn't really know about the intricacies of the software they are using. The beauty of it all is they don't have to know. Microsoft went way out of it's way to make that happen. It just works by pointing and clicking. Bill Gates was no dummy. He sold his products mainly to government organizations and corporations. They not only could afford the price but those organizations dominate life here in America. So, if you are in government or private business, you most likely know how to use Windows because that's what they have at work.

You are also correct making the second point point that Windows has it's limits, and when serious business needs to be done it's via Unix and in some cases Linux. All the worker bee sees is the terminal screen that just happens to work like Windows: point and click and you are on your way. When these people go home after working 12 hour shifts, what kind of computer do you think they will buy after working on Windows all day long? Gates knew what he was doing.

Mobile computing is a world of it's own. I happen to have one of them there Android (which you tend to confuse with Linux :mrgreen: ) computers that can also make phone calls. I have a few apps on there there that a vast majority of smartphone users couldn't care less about. I've been seriously thinking about downloading the terminal simulator which would allow me root access to the system, but am hesitating to do so just now. I know quite a bit about Linux and what little I do know about Android makes me not want to go there for fear I'd mess it up and void the warranty. There are similarities between my Linux boxes and Android, but they are not the same thing. Trust me. And you know what? I don't have to know diddly about Android in order for me to use it and entertain myself with it. I probably could use it for business too if I had a job. But I don't. And don't want one either. LOL

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Kellemora
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Re: The End is Near

Post by Kellemora » 10 Mar 2019, 12:24

Microsoft hit the businesses, while Apple hit the schools.
At the time it would be a toss up which would eventually dominate.
What people used at work, or what students learned to use.
I think they both had valid reasons for hitting the particular market they did.
I do think Gates was the better marketeer and along with selling to the government, gave him the clout and boost he needed to grow in leaps and bounds the way he did.

Linux is the latecomer to the arena. Torvolds only wanted to make a UNIX like system for the small PCs, and it took off and went viral without his doing much in the way of pushing it, other than keeping it open source so anyone could help with his projects.

What Microsoft has not been able to do is grow to take over mainframes and Unix, they are more or less stuck in the desktop marketplace.
While Linux on the other hand, now dominates the commercial market, nearly every major server farm runs Linux.
Large businesses with mainframes use Unix/Linux and may run Windows workstations, which is still just the PC desktop marketplace.
Almost all websites run on LAMP, although a few hosts will provide WAMP for their clients, the system itself still runs on LAMP, which is LInux.

RedHat is not the same thing? It uses the Linux Kernel so is called Linux.
BSD is not the same thing? It uses the Linux Kernel so is called Linux.
Debian is not the same thing? It uses the Linux Kernel so is called Linux.
Android is not the same thing? It uses the Linux Kernel too, so is rightfully called Linux.

Programs written for RedHat Linux, will not run on other OS's, without porting them over to those OS's.
Programs written for BSD Linux, will not run on other OS's, without porting them over to those OS's.
Programs written for Debian based Linux systems, will not run on other OS's, without porting them over to those OS's.
Programs written for Android Linux, will not run on other OS's, without porting them over to those OS's.

The industry standard name for ANY OS that uses the Linux kernel is and has always been known as Linux.
I do agree it is not logical, but that's the way it is. It's not just ME that says this, it's just how it is, period.

RedHat should have been called RedHat, not RedHat Linux.
BSD should have been called BSD, not Linux.
Debian, Ubuntu, LinuxMint, etc. should not have been called Linux either.
So the same would hold true for Android. But based on the REASON ALL OS's that use the Linux Kernel are known as Linux, the standard using has never changed.
Unfortunately, most folks just say Linux and not GNU/Linux which is what Linux really is.
And yes Android is also GNU/Linux, GNU is how the Android OS accesses the Linux Kernel.

So don't know what you mean when you say it's not the same thing as all the other OS's that use the Linux Kernel.

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yogi
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Re: The End is Near

Post by yogi » 10 Mar 2019, 14:44

All your examples are names for various distributions of Linux. That's why the 'Linux' name is appended to Red Hat, Ubuntu, Debian, Open SUSE, et. al.. I've never seen or even heard of Android Linux and much less iOS Linux or OSX Linux. Odd, don't you think? :lol:

If you want to play name games then there probably is no Linux in existence. It seems that the folks who invented it stole all their material from UNIX and changed it just enough to be able to call it FOSS. But it's still a variation of UNIX. If you can see why Linux is not called UNIX, then it amazes me why you can't see why Android is not Linux.

You can't put a Ford engine into a Chevy chassis and call it a Ford. Software works the same way as far as naming conventions go.

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Kellemora
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Re: The End is Near

Post by Kellemora » 11 Mar 2019, 11:46

Most folks don't say Ubuntu Linux, or Debian Linux either.
Linux was built as a UNIX like system, and made to be compatible with UNIX, but it is not UNIX.

Of course OSX isn't called Linux because there is nothing Linux about it.
OSX uses the BSD Code Base, which is NOT binary compatible with Linux.
It's a whole different animal. Also it should not be confused with BSD Linux which is an OS for use with the Linux Kernel.
BSD Linux does not use the BSD Code Base.

Cars are named by the BODY Maker, not the Engine Maker. You put a Ford Engine in a Chevy, you still have a Chevy.

Software does not work the same way as car naming conventions, never has and never will.

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yogi
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Re: The End is Near

Post by yogi » 12 Mar 2019, 08:22

The point to be made is that Linux is the kernel and the names appended to it make the operating system. That software kernel is the same as the mechanical engine in an automobile. Frankly I don't think there is a convention for software names. Automobiles go by the name of the company who made them. That Chevy chassis with a Ford engine would be a Ford if it came off Ford's assembly line, or a Chevy if it was GM's progeny.

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Kellemora
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Re: The End is Near

Post by Kellemora » 12 Mar 2019, 14:08

The 1912 Chevrolet Classic-Six Automobile, Body By Fischer body works, Power Train by General Motors.
GM did not buy out Louis Chevrolet until 1918.
So Chevy was not GMs progeny.

The Bricklin I owned for a short time was supposed to have a Cheverolet engine in it, but it came with a Ford engine. Fortunately they took the car back, and the short time I owned it, about two months, it was already falling apart.

I do agree with the name used on cars is by the name of the company combined with the body style.

As far as computers go, even the Operating System name was a latecomer to the arena.
My first few computers were named by the maker, such as the Heath/Zenith Octal Entry computer, or the Apple I motherboard, or the Apple II, then the Apple II+, and later the Lisa System, the Wang System, and finally the MAC's.
No mention is made of the Operating System or the Kernel.
They did sell the units by what CPU was in them, 8080a or 6502.
We wrote our own programs using the BASIC language.

It wasn't until floppy disks came on the scene did an OS come with a name, DOS for Disk Operating System.
But they still went by the CPU names as well, such as 286 DOS system or 386 DOS system.
It wasn't until Windows that Microsoft branded computers began using a name for the top level OS, while DOS was still the underlying Disk Operating System.
I don't recall any computer maker making reference to the Kernel until Linux.

Windows used their NT Kernel for years, they still use a Hydrid NT kernel in Win10.
Microsoft just doesn't use the kernel name in association with their Windows branding, other than when they used Windows NT.

But regardless of what computer brand you purchased, or what Operating System it used, if it used the Linux Kernel, these machines came to be known as Linux Computers, to differentiate them from Windows computers.

You either ran a Windows computer or a Linux computer. Even the name Windows does not tell you WHICH OS is in the Windows machine. It could be Windows 3.0, 3.11, XP, XP Pro, XP Pro MCE, NT, ME, Win7, Win8, Win10. But you still call it a Windows machine!
Linux is no different. It doesn't matter if it has RaspberryPI, BSD, RedHat, Ubuntu, Mint, Android, Debian, or any of a hundred others, it is still called a Linux machine.
About the only OS deviating from the norm is Android as it tries to stand out from the crowd.
Doesn't negate the fact it is still a Linux machine.
I didn't mention WANG since they are no longer around. But when they were, you could buy Windows, Linux, or Wang machines. Plus Wang also made a PC that ran both Wang and Windows on the same box at the same time. I know because I had one. It was probably basically a Windows computer with Wang produced programs that emulated the Wang equivalent to their VS and OIS machines. Any Windows software would run on the Wang PC.

When I look around at the various computer stores and repair shops in the area, I don't see a single one that says we work on BSD, or Ubuntu, or Linux Mint, or Android, or RaspberryPI, or RedHat. Every single one that works on Linux computers has a big sign that says LINUX SPOKEN HERE, or Powered by GNU/Linux, plus one that says they work on Windows PCs and Laptops, etc. In other words, they only recognize two types of computers, Windows and Linux. So that seems pretty universal to me.

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yogi
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Re: The End is Near

Post by yogi » 12 Mar 2019, 16:31

Most people I talk to today say they have either a Windows computer or an Apple computer. They don't even know what Linux is, much less are they aware of the many other operating systems readily available. One or two people know they have Chrome on their computer, but that's all they know about it. I think it's Dell that has a dedicated Linux computer but you are the only person I know who is aware of or cares about that. Brand is what sells. As a businessman you must know how important brand recognition is. About 90% of what you and I are talking about is unknown to 99% of the people in this world who use a computer. The other 1% work in IT and are being paid to know what they know. :mrgreen:

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Kellemora
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Re: The End is Near

Post by Kellemora » 13 Mar 2019, 11:39

Yeppers, I agree, IGNORANCE Among The Masses, has always been a known factor.

Windows computers are the most common user computer on the market, so yes, everyone has heard of them, and most folks are using Windows computers.
Another smaller group of richer folks are using Apple/Mac computers.
And I'll bet you dollars to donuts, 99.99999% of those people have no idea how to install their own OS on their own computer. Most of them can't figure out what to do when they hose the system.

They buy something Turn-Key, whether it is Windows or MAC, and that is all they know about what they bought, other than only Windows software works, or only MAC software works. And they gladly pay dearly to remain ignorant.
You wouldn't believe how many people accidentally bump their scroll wheel while holding down the Ctrl key, and don't know how to get their window back to the size they are used to using. It really is sad how little folks know about the devices they use.

Even those who have websites, the only thing they know is how to fill out a template and toy with it.
They don't even want to bother to learn anything about html so they can fix areas of their websites that stopped working when the template format was changed on them. Again sad.

So you are right again, only about 1% of computer users have any idea what they are doing!

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Re: The End is Near

Post by yogi » 13 Mar 2019, 14:04

Having said all the above, only 1% of computer users need to know what they are doing. The buzz words around Apple marketing at one time were "it just works." Well yeah. People buy computers for them to work and do what they want to do. Few people buy a computer to learn how it does what it does.

That brings me to my pet peeve. Be it Windows, Apple, Linux, or Android, there is no freaking instruction manual to tell you how it works. Linux is the exception, sort of, given it has man pages. I know your opinion of those pages so that they are totally useless for anybody not working in IT. The bit about the scroll wheel changing the size of your desktop should be on page #1 of the instruction manual, and it probably would be if there was a manual somewhere. I have purchased various "How To" books over the years, but each of those are about as helpful as man pages in Linux. They explain what all the buttons, toggles, and check boxes do, but they never ever mention why you would want to do it. The reason for this situation is, of course, it's too complicated. People just want a computer that works. Period.
Last edited by yogi on 14 Mar 2019, 13:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Kellemora
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Re: The End is Near

Post by Kellemora » 14 Mar 2019, 12:16

I agree with you Yogi, I'm one as you said that cannot understand a darn thing about MAN pages.
Windows used to come with history size operators manuals, which I doubt anybody ever read.
I just finally got rid of a few of them from my bookshelf. Didn't throw them away exactly.
I shredded them to use as mulch, hi hi. I rarely throw anything paper in the trash cans.

Most of the time if you need to learn how to so something, whether it is Windows, MAC, Linux, or the programs that run on those machines, you can usually find the answer on-line, and in some cases, 4 million ways to do the same thing, but only 4 or 5 are the right way, hi hi.

Going back a lot of years, when I first tried Linux, it was basically useless for a home user.
There were no programs to do things I would want to do.
But over the years, along came OSs for Linux that have evolved into turn-key systems, like Linux Mint.
Also, drivers for almost everything have finally been built. Some are perfect, some not so perfect, but they are getting better. It's all these drivers that makes turn-key programs like Ubuntu and Linux Mint possible.

With all the computers I have here, it's a shame I don't know how to turn them into a Cluster, hi hi.

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Re: The End is Near

Post by yogi » 14 Mar 2019, 13:19

A popular trend these days is to use the GPU, or several, to increase the throughput of a system. I can easily do that given I have video drivers built into the motherboard, but I have only a vague notion what it would take. I'm thinking PCIE bus manipulation but maybe not. nVidia is a great stock to buy these days because people are using their GPU cards to parallel process crypto-currency searches. It's a lot like that supercomputer you mentioned earlier. Hackers do the same thing in brute force attacks. It might take a million years to guess your password with one CPU, but 50 GPU's in parallel with it could cut that time down to only 100 years. LOL

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Re: The End is Near

Post by Kellemora » 15 Mar 2019, 14:02

It's too hard for hackers to figure out a single password.
What they do is hack into a server somewhere, find the password file, which of course is encrypted.
Then they let their program run until they hit on the encryption used by the database system.
Once they break through that, then it is only a matter of finding the encryption for the list of passwords.
Within a few hours or days, they may have figured out the passwords for about 1/4th of the users of the system, which is enough for them to begin hacking into the individual computers. But most of the time, they only want to place a file that the users will open which causes their malware to be downloaded at the same time.

I don't know how, but some users have their own password encrypted before using it as a password. I have no idea how that works, because you are still uploading a text string as a password. Hmm, maybe not anymore?

I have a good one for you today along these lines. The frau's niece got a nasty blister on her thumb when she picked up a hot charcoal briquette. It was outside her BBQ grill, a little Hibachi, so she thought it was there from the last time she used it. She guessed wrong, hi hi.
Her Schmartz-Fone turns on from her thumbprint. Which right now is one big blister. You can still see her fingerprint, but her phone don't see it correctly. She can get into her phone another way using a password, but she doesn't remember how, or what her password was, hi hi.
Think passwords are safe?
She took it up to the cell phone store and they were able to unlock it and reset her password in under a minute.
So I figure, if they can do it, so can any hacker anywhere.
I know, you are going to say it is because they had it on file or something, from when she first set up her phone.
Probably like my computer when I get it back from the shop. I can always get in using Owner Password, until I remove that user account again. But my point is, the repair shop can always get in by creating that user, somehow. Possibly they may not be able to get to my user data in the /home directory, but I'm sure they have root access so can see everything that way if they wanted to. This is one reason I also set a password on some folders. I don't think they can open that folder without knowing the password, even if they are root. But I'm not sure!

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yogi
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Re: The End is Near

Post by yogi » 15 Mar 2019, 15:57

Brute force attacks still happen because a lot of people are password impaired. You would not believe how many passwords end up being "12345" or "abcdef." There is a list of a few thousand most often used passwords that is easily downloaded from the internet. All you need is the right PHP program and you can hack those passwords in less than a minute.

The less popular passwords can also be guessed in under an hour for something that is 12 characters long or less. Doing that would require all those CPU's hooked together to speed up the process. As you might have heard there is something called quantum computing. IBM and a few other companies are already manufacturing computers at this level. Once the technique is perfected all the passwords ever invented could be decrypted within a few milliseconds. Of course your average high school geek wouldn't have easy access to one of those machines, but governments and military organizations do.

But, alas, you are right. Brute force attacks are just practice exercises for the pros testing out their techniques. Stealing the encrypted password file is generally the fist step in raiding a server. Once that file is off line then the encryption method can be reverse engineered. It's usually not worth going after a single computer, but these days of crypto currency provide many opportunities to become instant millionaires if you are lucky enough at mining and hacking.

As far as smart phones go, by far the majority of folks who own them do not have root access. They don't even know what it is. There are service codes that people with the right information can use without having to be root or have access to BASH. While I've not been able to get anyone to admit it, I'm certain there are codes you can punch into the keypad which will give you account control. From then it's just a matter of changing credentials for a given account. No fuss, no muss.

Google keeps copies of your account on their cloud. This is how they recover and restore corrupt account information. Forgot your password? No problem for Google's Personal Assistant. Just go to your G-mail login page and tell them you forgot. Once you prove to them who you are, voila. You are back in business. They can do that because they just grab the backup out of their cloud.

Now for a real life story along these same lines. Wife has an LG smartphone with Android Lollipop installed. It's a few generations older than my Pixel, but still is Android. All the photo graphics on her phone went reverse image one day. She swears she never touched anything and that it happened all by itself. I played with it for a few hours but could not find a setting that reverses the graphics globally. I could do it on the lock screen or the home page, but not global. After a couple weeks of backwards graphics she was getting frustrated that she could not properly see the photographs people were sending her. So I had an idea and gave it one last shot. I found a setting which allowed the phone to be restored to its factory defaults. She would lose all her app settings and all the photos stored in the phone's memory, but at least she would have a usable smart phone again.

I went into the routine and received a ton of warnings that everything was going to be blown away. Am I SURE I want to do this? Well, yes Google. That's why I'm here in the first place. It reminded me of Windows asking me if I really want to delete the stuff in my Trash Bin. UGH. Anyway, started the process and the system rebooted and downloaded something. I have a feeling it was a new copy of the OS because it took a while for it to happen. Then there were some preliminary setup questions and we were good to go. But, before I was brought back to the brand new factory default home screen, I was told they noticed that there is an account for this phone stored on their cloud. Would I want to restore the phone to that account's setup? I had to think about this one really hard because I knew they were going to use a backup copy to restore, but I didn't know if that backup was corrupt or not. I figured I could just do it again if it was corrupt so that I said yes, go ahead and restore the old account.

Amazingly the old account was restored with all the apps installed, passwords set correctly, and the friggen photo's still showing reverse color. Just where did they get that from? Wife never set it to backup her phone and she deliberately does not use any cloud storage knowingly. Google, in it's infinite wisdom, keeps a copy whether you want them to or not. They do that for recovery purposes because there is no other way to reinstall the OS if it crashes. Not sure if I like that or not.

Anyway, shocked as I was I went through all settings and found a panel with something like Microsoft's Ease of Access settings for the visually and hearing impaired. Only one setting in there was turned on, and that was a setting to reverse the colors. Why a visually impaired person would benefit from that is beyond me, but that is what caused the original problem. We still don't know how it got flipped, but the problem is now solved.

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Re: The End is Near

Post by Kellemora » 16 Mar 2019, 12:17

I'm glad you figured it out and got everything back to normal with no data loss.

Back in the early days of XP I had this great little program that let me convert graphics to almost any format. I could do one, a whole folder, or all the sub-folders in a main folder.

I had one folder that I scanned actual color film strips into, then separated the images in individual pictures, because the program would convert negatives to positives for printing. It could also take slides and scan them which are already positive so don't need changed.
Now, although I used the tool to change all the color negatives to positives, when I went to convert them from one file type to another, eg. tiff to jpg, it put them all back to negatives again.
I finally figured out that the program did not physically change the originals, merely changed how they would be viewed using their viewer. But, you could, after changing them, save them to a different folder as positives. Extra work but it was worth it.
Back in the early days of XP, I stored almost all of my scanned images as PCX files, because the only other option was JPG which could lose image quality each time you opened the file, I was told. All I can say is it is a good thing I later kept most of my pictures as TIF files, because when we got hit with the ransomware attack, it only took out jpg image files and doc text files. It did not ruin the TIF, PCX, or ODT files. I still lost thousands of pictures though.

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Re: The End is Near

Post by yogi » 17 Mar 2019, 18:19

I used something similar to what you described on my Windows 98 computer: https://www.irfanview.com/
If I recall correctly I was trying to make thumbnails for some web site and there were a lot of them. This Irfanview program did the conversion rather quickly and I was happy about that. I didn't try out all it's features because I had only one job to do at the time. I don't know if this is the same program you were using, but it is capable of running on XP.

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Re: The End is Near

Post by Kellemora » 18 Mar 2019, 12:50

It's not on my current XP machine which was a hand-me-down, so I don't remember the name of it. But it was a really great program for converting image files. But now that I think about it, I have a hunch after I got my new hi-res scanner, it could not handle images over a certain size.

I'm still befuddled I cannot find the facial recognition program I had.
I was using it to go through family group photo's to pick out the folks in it.
But for it to work, it had to have access to my best image of each person in my main database.
So I created a database of just faces I knew.
I was surprised at how accurate it was, even when I only had an older persons photo, it picked out the photo of a teen, and upon researching the teens image, I found it was correct, it nailed the right person.
This doesn't mean it was perfect all the time. In group images, an important feature may be hidden behind another persons head, or they may have their head turned too far for the program to pick up all the necessary points.
And that is the other thing, how many points is the program using. Almost all the free ones only use 5 to 7 points, while the one I had I know used at least 9 points, and/or measurements.

On a similar note, I used to make cross-stitch patterns using photo-charting.
I picked up an amazing program at a materials shop for Windows XP, that printed out the programs and gave the proper embroidery thread numbers. You could select the number of colors to use, and being a crazy person, I would select way too many, but boy did the images come out great looking. Even if they did take a few years to complete.
I have one I worked on for three and a half years, and it is only about half done. Been sitting now for about a dozen years untouched because I will have to learn how to do the tricks I was doing to make it, so the front and back came out looking the same.

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Re: The End is Near

Post by yogi » 18 Mar 2019, 13:57

My wife did a lot of cross stitching during the early years of our marriage. As time moved on other things occupied her time, like raising a family, and the stitching fell by the wayside. Some of the finished products were amazing in terms of detail, and many did take her nearly a year to complete. I never could understand how people who knit, crochet, or cross stitch do it because it relaxes them. The repetition alone would drive me crazy. I have seen programs on public television where people make quilts. If I were to do any sewing, I think I would go that rout before anything else. Not only is it creatively satisfying, but the quilts are actually functional. :mrgreen:

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