The End is Near

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yogi
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The End is Near

Post by yogi » 14 Jan 2019, 15:27

Mainstream support for Windows 7 stopped four years ago, in January 2015, with the operating system shifted to extended support for the next five years. Extended support means that users have continued to receive security updates and bug fixes, but no new features.

However, after 14 January 2020, support will be discontinued entirely. Microsoft's date for the end of extended support will also encourage software vendors to stop supporting Windows 7, which means applications will also stop working, too.
I had intended to keep using Windows 7 beyond it's final support date. But, if applications will no longer work ... here I come Linux Mint.

https://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/30 ... years-time

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Kellemora
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Re: The End is Near

Post by Kellemora » 15 Jan 2019, 12:21

We have a shelf full of mystery games that will only work on WinXP.
I did get a couple to work using WINE by setting it to WinXP mode.
And another couple using that other program like WINE, which I always forget the name of.

Tried installing XP in virtual box, and no way to activate it anymore.
The codes I used to be able to use no longer work, but this could be because I don't remember which disk they worked with.

I have a whole stack of expensive research disks I bought and paid for, but the company who wrote the program to read them is no longer in business, and the secondary company who supported the reading of those disks disappeared shortly thereafter.
I've tried reading them using other means, but apparently they have some type of encryption to prevent copying and reading with any other programs.

I have Linux MInt, a couple of version, on my computers and keep them updated. I love how simple they update too!
But I still use Debian as my daily use OS. It's what I have on the Silver Yogi!

It looks like Windows 10 end of upgrades will be Oct. 13, 2020, with extended security support to Oct. 14, 2025.
They will skip Windows 11 and jump straight to Windows 12 and release it sometime this year.
Seems it will be a VR type of release and you will be able to select desktop or homepage.
But that's all I've heard, other than some possible features, like less wasted RAM.

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yogi
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Re: The End is Near

Post by yogi » 15 Jan 2019, 13:13

The article I quote also mentions that Windows 7 is being run in 33 percent of the computers. Windows 10 has a 37% share. That leaves 30% running some unspecified version of Windows. I was amazed at the statistics and somewhat encouraged. It tells me that a lot of people out there are running out dated Windows OS's successfully.

The only other program I know about that can be used to run Windows inside Linux is Play On Linux. It's WINE with a slightly different user interface and has the same problems. Nobody is seriously supporting it. I only have a couple games I would really miss if Win7 doesn't function anymore. It's no big loss.

I've not yet heard of the next generation Windows. They keep issuing feature upgrades to Windows 10. One is coming down in April, for example. There are still a lot of hard core laptop and desktop users out there. I don't know if Microsoft would be willing to abandon them. They have done stupid things in the past, but I don't know about them leaving their core competency behind.

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Kellemora
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Re: The End is Near

Post by Kellemora » 16 Jan 2019, 11:30

More and more people are doing their on-line stuff using their cell phones now.
They only sit down to a computer when they have some more serious work to get done.

I notice on TV shows, almost every government type of show, and almost all business type of shows, show them using laptops into the company mainframe to display on many large LCD displays around the room.
I realize these are just shows, but it looks like they are really pushing laptops for business.
However, that is until you go into a REAL Business environment. Then all you see are Desktop workstations.
Or specialized stand alone computer type devices.

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yogi
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Re: The End is Near

Post by yogi » 16 Jan 2019, 12:30

We have known all along that there are different tiers of computer users. The need for mobile devices probably existed ever since the first computer was manufactured. The technology just wasn't there at the time. A lot of the local businesses who I've had come out to my home for one reason or another use mobile devices to document the work they do for me. In almost all cases I can have an invoice e-mailed to me immediately. I'm certain that the app used by the service person is custom made for that particular company. There are some standard things such as the invoice e-mail function, but the billing and work details all get stored on some server back at the office. Most likely there is an accountant/owner using a desktop to cover everyday business activity, but the sales force hit the road with laptops. So yeah, today's small business environment needs servers, desktops, laptops, and mobile devices. That's why I doubt desktops/laptops will disappear. Then there are the gamers ....

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ocelotl
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Re: The End is Near

Post by ocelotl » 16 Jan 2019, 23:11

I remember the first time I tried to do serious work on a cell phone. I got myself a Palm Treo 680 in January 2007, and in a field visit to supervise Satellite Link setups in Costa Rica, instead of writing down on paper my notes or taking out the Laptop I brought with me, I typed most of the time in an early version of Documents to Go in the Palm. I could produce an excel achive for my expenses, a draft of my reports and a few sloppy photos in the time between a facility and the next in my scheduled supervision visits. I later complemented them at home with the photos I took with a camera I brought and with the capabilities of the Lanix desktop thet I still use. Fast forward to today, and although I miss the phyisical keyborad on the cell phone, the one I use nowadays is way beyond the laptop I carried to Costa Rica.

Every piece of equipment has its virtues and drawbacks, but when we use them to facilitate our live, they fulfill their purpose.

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Kellemora
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Re: The End is Near

Post by Kellemora » 17 Jan 2019, 09:43

I've bought several laptops over the years so I could do things while away from home.
Trouble is, they were all underpowered and a royal PITA to use.
Once I accomplished the purpose I bought them for, they ended up in the bottom of a closet until the batteries leaked and ruined the laptop, the carry bag, and a couple of times the flooring underneath.

I still have a small netbook I bought so I had it when I needed to go somewhere.
However, to make it usable, I also carry a standard keyboard and mouse with me.
Simply because it is portable, which means stealable too, I never save passwords or log-in info on it for anything.
And what data I do put on it's hard drive, I copy to a USB stick and drop that in my pocket.
When I get home, I copy the USB stick to my desktop computer, then to backup, and finally delete everything from the netbook and toss it back in the closet.

Watching people try to work on a laptop at various places, sitting at bad angles that will give them medical problems, arms too high for proper typing which can cause carpal tunnel syndrome, etc. I just can't do it, I'm not a contortionist.
I'll bet not too many could spend 8 to 10 hours a day typing on a laptop, each and every day, and last very long, or get a fair amount of work done for the hours put in.

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yogi
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Re: The End is Near

Post by yogi » 17 Jan 2019, 12:10

I know people who own Google Chromebooks and other 'netbook' type computers. They are attractive because of the low cost, but they are useless as far as productivity goes. This class of computer is essentially a terminal connected to The Cloud. You got to love Google's way of doing things if you use Chromebook. Other netbooks are not bound to the Google chaos, but they too are designed to function only on the web. This might be fine if every application a person needed has a web equivalent. But, that's far from the case. Even those that are represented seldom have the same functionality and come with many bugs. So, I stay away from the netbooks as much as possible.

Laptops are more versatile. You pay the price for this versatility in dollars as well as bulk of the mechanics. There are many situations where only a laptop is appropriate, and you can't tell me they are a stress on the physical system of the operator. You never watched teenagers use laptops if you have that opinion. LOL

In the end we all do what we got to do. There is a device for every need. Probably more than one device too.

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Kellemora
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Re: The End is Near

Post by Kellemora » 18 Jan 2019, 13:17

I used to go to writers group meetings all the time. All the kids there had their laptops on top of lunch counter type fold up tables, so were reaching nearly a foot above what is considered the proper height for typing. A few sit on the floor or a low chair with it in their lap, which is better on the arms and wrists, but they look so contorted while working, it pains me just watching them.

You would probably be laughing your arse off if you saw what I look like when I go to these meetings.
I have a bed-table with fold out legs I set across my lap with the legs pinned across the seat of a fold-up chair. Set the laptop or now the netbook on the table, the keyboard on the bed table, and often the mouse I do leave on the tabletop.
I also have this cushion designed for wheelchairs that I sit on. Have several of these because I use them in my office chair.

After about six months of going to one particular meeting, two others bought keyboards and a mouse for their laptops and set the computer bag on their lap to hold the keyboard. By the end of the year, two more did almost the same thing. They bought some type of shelf with U-shaped prongs so they could slide it over the edge of a dining table, it held their laptop at a slight angle below the height of the table, but they still used the laptop keyboard.

At least a couple commented about it being more comfortable and they could work faster.
And they quit laughing at the old geezer (me) in the room, hi hi.

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yogi
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Re: The End is Near

Post by yogi » 18 Jan 2019, 18:19

I'm pretty understanding when it comes to computers and most likely would be amazed and not amused at your laptop setup. In my case I was typing for many years already before PCs were even invented. When flat keyboards came along I had at least 25 years worth of typing history behind me. Those membrane keyboards just didn't feel right regardless of what height they are put at. I do a fair job on them in the short term. But if I have to use my laptop keyboard for more than 30 minutes the swearing and gnashing of teeth starts in earnest.

Motorola had all the techs and engineers take ergonomic design classes. Part of that was preventive maintenance to keep the crew on the job and not needing carpal tunnel surgery. We were all aware of what was recommended but not everyone complied. For example, in order to get the right posture at the workstations we used, a special ergonomic chair that is infinitely adjustable was needed. Those chairs exceeded $1000 each even for a big company like Motorola. Needless to say budgets were limited and management seemed to ignore all the rules. Young people can indeed perform contortions that us more mature folks can't do anymore. Even if it's damaging, they heal quicker. Stress on the body isn't what young laptop users think about, but I do know quite a few that use a mouse instead of the crazy touch pad.

I often wonder what a staff meeting looks like these days. They probably don't have laptops at all anymore. It's all tablets and smart/clever phones. Which brings me to a small rant about the Pixel 3 XL computer/phone in my possession. It is highly integrated much like Windows is with all the Microsoft software and apps you can put on your devices. I can take a picture and shove it into any one of Google's services seamlessly. I also tell my clever phone what to put on my grocery list. It does that pretty well and often includes pictures of what I want. But today somebody called my on the cell phone and I had no caller ID listed for them. They were not one of my contacts. So, I told Google to put this number into my contacts, and it told me it doesn't know how to do that yet. Contacts are very basic. Google uses them to spy on you everywhere. But, my somewhat cleverphone doesn't know how to translate them for some reason. I was shocked. :dropmouth:

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Kellemora
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Re: The End is Near

Post by Kellemora » 19 Jan 2019, 12:26

I learned to type, not fast, before I took typing in school, so had a head start when I took the class.
I remember my teacher was amazed at how I properly snapped the keys and was already up to over 30 wpm within the first week of class. After that, she often used me as an example, and would have me sit up at the end of her desk so other students could watch me type. This was back on the old Royal Manual typewriters, the exact same type we had at my dad's work which I used to do invoicing when I helped after school.

I never did really hit the high speed typing until after I was married to Ruth, my late wife, who was a medical transcriptionist. She took in side transcription work, and the work which was not medical she often let me do.
I actually liked doing this type of work, and over time, built my speed up to an average of 120 wpm.
I also worked at a newspaper for a short time, and also previously used Linotype machines, and finally got a job doing keypunch.
It was while we were doing transcription work, she had an IBM selectric with the ball, and I bought a Swintec Daisy Wheel. Later I upgraded to a better Swintec that could drive a dot matrix printer.
That's about the time I started with my first Apple I motherboard, and quickly got an Apple II, then an Apple II+.
The Lisa System I mentioned i prevous messages was purchased by the company under my guidance.
Then the Wang VS system, and finally the Wang OIS system.
I had to move from Apple to PCs for the work I was doing as my clients demanded same.

So, basically, I've been typing nearly my whole life. I'm currently at my keyboard from around 8am until 10pm nearly every day of the week. I literally wear holes in the Spacebar on keyboards, if not the A or L key first. Let me tell you, when you do wear a hole in the Spacebar, that sucker has sharp edges that can cut the edge of your thumb easily.
I'm about due to replace the keyboard I'm using right now for that very reason. Fortunately I have one left in the box on the shelf. I bought six keyboards at a time to get a super discount on a model I liked, before it was discontinued. On the last one now.

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yogi
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Re: The End is Near

Post by yogi » 19 Jan 2019, 18:39

They only typing class I took was in high school where all they had were Royal upright machines. I don't recall how I acquired mine, but it was identical to what was used in that class. The only difference was the keys on my typewriter were not covered with tape to hide the alphabets. LOL I kept using that typewrite for many years until I married. Somewhere in those early years I acquired an IMB Selectric. I was disappointed with the ribbons in that they could only be used once. I guess the type was clean and well formed, but now I had to buy ribbons on a regular schedule if I wanted to use that machine. Eventually I got near to 100 wpm but never crossed that mark.

The keyboard I'm using now is a Ducky Shine. It's made for gamers with MX Brown key switches and back lit with LEDs that change color. The letters on the keys are not printed and will never wear off. They are etched so that the LED shows through them. I chose this kind of keyboard on purpose. For one, the key switches will last forever at the rate I use them and the key letters are constantly illuminated. Since the lighting conditions vary widely in this room and my eyes are getting older, I needed something I can see under all circumstances.

I never had a problem with the keys wearing out. The lettering would vanish but the key kaps only lost a little paint. I never wore down the plastic. I can only imagine your fingers having grit on them, or something. :lol:

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Kellemora
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Re: The End is Near

Post by Kellemora » 20 Jan 2019, 16:21

While I was working for a publisher, I was typing over 30,000 words per day, 5 days a week, not counting all the typing I do for myself. Before that, doing transcription work, I was a little under that, around 20 to 25k per day. Had to keep up that pace in order to make any money you could live from.

I used to use keyboards that cost over 100 bucks, and like you, the key letters went all the way through. Each key had replaceable contact sets, etc. Then I switched to another type of keyboard that used led technology, probably infrared since you don't see any light. But the problem with that type of keyboard was a little dust or dead skin or hair could cause problems, so had to blow them out on a regular basis.

Now don't laugh. I found a keyboard with the exact key weight I love, it's very cheap, so the painted on letters wear off almost right away, which is OK, I don't ever look at the keyboard anyhow. Even so, I do dab a clear acrylic over each of the keys when the board is new, which helps them last a tad longer. But since they only cost 19.99 each, or 12.99 each if I buy a box of six at a time, I could buy six of them cheaper than a higher quality keyboard. I've already gone through one case, and am on the fifth keyboard from the second case, so do have one new unused one left. Unfortunately, although I can buy the same keyboard, they no longer make the wired version, only the wireless. And you know I don't like wireless stuff. The batteries would cost me more than the keyboard to keep using it.
However, at my age, and slowing down considerably, I think when I do break open the new keyboard, it will outlast me.
I'm honestly very surprised these cheap little keyboards hold up as well as they do the way I pound them to death.

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yogi
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Re: The End is Near

Post by yogi » 21 Jan 2019, 09:10

Like yourself I have had experience with many types of keyboards. The wired ones are the best as far as response goes. There is no discernible lag between key closure and character appearance on the screen. I can't say the same for wireless, and bluetooth is the worst of all. Most mobile devices can tether via bluetooth and that is fine, but typing over that system is insane.

There is a lot to be said for quantity verses quality. If your keys wear out at the same rate regardless of the keyboard quality, then in makes sense to go with the cheapest. I'd do something similar if I worked as hard as you do. For me it's not just system response. The feel of the keyboard is critical to my satisfaction. Cherry switch makes a wide variety of tactile switches, but after trying out a few the brown series is best for my purposes.

There is a vague memory in the back of my mind regarding infrared keyboards. I probably used one in my distant past but don't recall much about it. There was a infinite supply of varied keyboards at Motorola. I think I used them all at one time or another. My favorite was the very first one; a WesternElectric TTY terminal that ran at a blazing 10 baud ... yes 10. It sometimes took two fingers to press those keys. LOL

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Kellemora
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Re: The End is Near

Post by Kellemora » 21 Jan 2019, 11:45

Your TTY terminal sounds about like the LinoType I used. The keys must have been weighted for a gorilla, hi hi.
I hate keyboards where the keys do not have at least a 1/8th inch drop when you press them. Had one the keys only moved about 1/16 of an inch, if that, and I was constantly having the L and A keys making rows of letters on me.
Ironically, some of the keys I rarely use actually build up a layer of grungy dirt on them, like the \ key and far outside edge of the right shift key. If I would clean off the grunge, I'm sure the word Shift is still there like it was new, hi hi.

I sat down to do some work at the frau's computer, back when wireless keyboards first came out, and I could type a whole lot faster than it could pick up the letters I was typing. The new ones aren't that bad, but it really was a pain to type in slo-mo, hi hi.

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yogi
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Re: The End is Near

Post by yogi » 21 Jan 2019, 18:25

The keys on that old time tty terminal probably had close to 1/2" worth of travel. Fortunately we didn't have to do a lot of work with it and most of the time played a primitive space wars game. It was all done in ASCII which I've seen around not too many years ago.

One reason me and laptops don't get along is due to the membrane keys with virtually no travel. They now have some kind if scissor mechanism which provides a more tactile feel but makes the key caps impossible to replace. Once removed the switch is broken and cannot be repaired. That's how I learned how to use keyboards without key caps on certain letters. LOL

My wife's iPad can mount on what can be called a folding keyboard. The keyboard and cover to support the iPad is very thin but feels great. I don't know what Apple did there but that's one flat keyboard that doesn't give my fingers seizures. Then again, I don't use it very often. Not sure how it stands up to heavy usage.

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Kellemora
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Re: The End is Near

Post by Kellemora » 22 Jan 2019, 11:48

One of the early netbook size laptops I had, used silicone keys like what games have on them.
So I assume they had carbon contacts like the games do.
One thing I learned about silicone keys, nothing will stick to them, so you can't fix them by building up any type of adhesive. Even tried things like ShooGoo which sticks like iron to shoe soles, but not to silicone. Probably spent over 30 bucks looking for a glue that would work, but none did.
I have one small handheld game I use daily while sitting on the throne and reigning over my kingdom.
A few of the keys were totally deteriorated, and it's just a silicone pad formed to make the keys.
In any case, I took the thing apart and since I couldn't glue to it, I simply laid a thin piece of faux-silk scarf over it, and put the game back together again. Now with the silk locked in place, I could put dabs of silicone caulk onto the silk and built the worn out buttons back up again. This game was made in 2000 and is still working just fine. Yeah I'm surprised too!

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yogi
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Re: The End is Near

Post by yogi » 23 Jan 2019, 08:25

We all know the dilemma of sitting on the throne. Something needs to take our minds off the current task. But, playing the same game for 18 years seems like a royal pain. On the other hand, the way you rebuilt the keyboard is sheer genius.

One of the unexpected benefits that came with my Pixel cleverphone is that it can replace all those magazines I have stored next to the throne. I now have access to all the Internet all the time. LOL I don't have any games I play on that phone, but it is entertaining to peruse all the mobile versions of the social media I am involved with. The reading material is endless. I don't know how I'd respond if I got a phone call while reigning over my kingdom. It would seem so ... unnatural ... to answer it from the throne room.

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Kellemora
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Re: The End is Near

Post by Kellemora » 23 Jan 2019, 11:09

I've had several of the little hand held games over the years, but Solitaire is one I've always played, all the time. We actually have three of them, but only like this old one with the big screen and conveniently placed buttons.
Unlike other hand held games, once you start a game, some end right away, some take forever to finish. But a Solitaire game, no matter how many you play, always ends fast, so you can finish up with the paperwork and get out of there.

Although my house is old, built after the war with whatever materials they could get, and nothing is plumb, the ceiling and floors sag, etc. When I redid the bathroom, it was a major challenge to get things level and lined up while still keeping the sagging areas where they needed to sag, hi hi. Else outside the room wouldn't line up with inside the room, hi hi.
I used to renovate older homes, but none that were as crooked and sagging as this one. I wanted to tear it down and rebuild, but when you are near broke, and at the time it wasn't yet our house, you had to work a room at a time, and do the best you could do.
Nevertheless, everyone who saw our bathroom was jealous of the amenities in there. And how carefully laid out everything was for convenience. I even have a switch by the throne to turn on the exhaust fan, should you have forgotten while at the vanity mirrors where the other vent switch is located. I have a 1200 watt heater in the ceiling that blows down to dry your hair and back, and otherwise keep you warm while taking a shower, and drying off.
The vanity has mirrors (medicine cabinets) built in, in front and on both sides, so you can see the back of your head while standing at the mirrors. Women love this. Plus the overhead mirror light and side makeup lights on both sides.
Built in Ironing Board cabinet, vanity, etc. Plus a light that stays on 24/7, about the amount of lumens as a 7 watt nightlight, but is an LED, so only draws 0.04 watts. It's bright enough you don't need to turn on any other lights at 3am when aroused from a deep sleep to go fill the watering hole. And the toilet is a high one so easy to get off of.
And of course, the frau picked out the most expensive of everything, instead of the cheapest like I did when I remodeled houses, hi hi. If you figure in labor costs, the bathroom cost more than I paid for the house. Not counting labor costs, my kitchen remodel cost over 20 grand in materials alone. An insurance appraiser was here and after studying our kitchen, just the kitchen he said would cost 65k to replace if totally gutted by fire.

Ooops gotta run, the frau just pulled in with lunch.

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yogi
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Re: The End is Near

Post by yogi » 24 Jan 2019, 08:43

We custom built our last house and lived there thirty years. It got to the point where some remodeling was necessary either to sell the house or live there another thirty. I'm one of those weekend warriors that enjoy fixing things, but only up to a point. I'd never attempt remodeling anything more than a closet which is why we hired professionals to redo a few rooms. We did it in stages and the entire project spread over three years. That was good because it gave us time to clean out the basement before we moved.

The entire kitchen was gutted and everything rebuilt or replaced. The oak flooring went into the next room and down the hall. I was thoroughly impressed with the carpenters who put in the flooring. They were Polish and had tons of experience. They'd make a measurement, cut, and nail it in place without ever making a mistake. A job that would take me a week barely took them one day. We also redid the bath with much of what you have in yours. The difference being my bathroom was only 6x10. They took out the tub and built a full shower which I loved. It was like standing in an open field with the rain coming down. LOL In total we must have spent more than $60k. Some of that helped raise the selling price, but most of it was more like maintenance than anything else. It was a hard decision to leave all that newness, but other factors overruled.

The new owners loved the house immediately. It wasn't the remodeling so much as the structure. It was a 1500 sq ft ranch with a basement that was unfinished. They offered nearly the full price and the deal was closed less than a week after it went on the market. He told us that he liked the house because it was well built and easy to remodel. Remodel? I just did that. But this guy had other plans and a $100k budget. Some of the new things we put in were retained, but most of what we did was replaced to suit the needs of the new lady of the house. They sent us a video of the finished product and it was almost heartbreaking. Oh it was beautiful, but we never would have upgraded all those things if we knew the new owners were just going to rip it out anyway. :facepalm:

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