A Lamentation for Yogi

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Kellemora
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Re: A Lamentation for Yogi

Post by Kellemora » 24 Oct 2016, 13:04

I talked to HP this morning, and all of their new printers will be like this, and there is no way to change how their new machines work. It makes them faster, and they use less toner.

The guy told me how to get around this on my letterhead, and how to make a new flat template.
I already did this with my Invoice document and it works, but is time consuming and tricky.
But once you have a new template made, then the letterhead prints properly.

Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done with the thousands of photographs I have with text showing the names of the individuals. All text boxes will come out white, and the images will automatically print in 155 or 210 line half-tone, which is ugly.

I already mentioned I found a way around this problem, by embedding the photo's in a Writer Document and then printing. This forces them to come out right, half-toned around 600 dpi so looks smooth as they should.

But there is no way to convert PDF files so they will print properly, without the half-tone mask.

I talked to one other fellow who does a lot of shipping and who hit the same problem with his new HP printer.
He just opens the UPS Shipping Label PDF file and makes a screen shot of each one and saves as JPG, then imports each into msWord and prints from there. A lot of extra steps, so he is looking to buy a used thermal label printer to handle his shipping labels.

I have a hunch, when enough businesses find out HP has changed how their printers work, they are going to see a slump in sales. I was already told this cannot be controlled by a print driver, so they may have to issue a hardware program upgrade to fix the monster they have created.

I do like this printer though, the scans are perfect, as are the scanned copies it spits out at lightning speed.

Almost all authors print their books from a PDF and HP printers can no longer do this without half-toning the text.
We use PDF because PDFs are not printer specific. Whereas a document file might alter the size of the pages for printing, since most documents use the printer settings to determine the margins. It's just to hard to print the same document on different printers and expect the same output, whereas PDF will always come out identical, regardless of the printer used.

Have a great day Yogi!

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Kellemora
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Re: A Lamentation for Yogi

Post by Kellemora » 21 Nov 2016, 14:31

A neighbor of mine gave me a cheap HP Printer he used for printing mailing labels.
It prints UPS and USPS labels properly. Does my letterhead properly.
And prints images properly. Trouble is, if I used it for color printing, I would go broke.
It's a two cartridge ink jet printer. All three colors in one cartridge.
I just hope it still prints black when the color gets used up in the cleaning cycles.

I didn't have to load a print driver for it, so it must have already been in the kernel.
Although, the driver number looks the same as the one for my laser printer.
But I didn't check it to be certain.

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yogi
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Re: A Lamentation for Yogi

Post by yogi » 21 Nov 2016, 18:35

I'd be surprised if the drivers were the same for ink jets and laser printers. But hey. It's Linux. It can do anything, right?

I have to reluctantly agree with you about the cost of ink. The sad truth is that printers were invented to profit from the sale of ink. Being able to print what the user needs printed is secondary to the design. I've never been able to go on printing after the color cartridges run out of ink, except on a Canon printer I once had. It didn't care if there was ink in it or not. LOL To be fair, it did issue a warning that the ink was not working but that didn't stop it from printing. There wasn't much else good about that Canon.

I don't know the solution, Gary. I've never had problems printing labels or images. Then again, I don't do UPS labels. The UPS labels I get on packages delivered don't look as if they are high quality either.

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Kellemora
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Re: A Lamentation for Yogi

Post by Kellemora » 22 Nov 2016, 13:19

Back when I ran Lexmark ink jets, I could refill the ink cartridges super cheap.
Could buy ink made for their cartridges by the gallon for less than a 2 ounce bottle cost as a refill kit ink.

I checked the drivers last night, they are different, but already in the Kernel which is why I didn't need to install any.

I pulled up several different PDF files, and the little ink jet printed them all perfectly, as expected, including the pages of a book stored in PDF.
It is ONLY the newer HP lasers that have this internal program that ruins PDF's, images with text boxes, and all images.

Since it cannot be used to print those items, of course it will use less toner, hi hi...

Everyone I've talked to with older HP laser printers, and color laser printers say they work great on PDF's and the images are as expected from a laser printer. By the same token, those I've talked to with newer HP printers, said they sent them back and bought a Brother laser printer of the same class.
I probably should have kept the Canon laser printer, since it did great printing from Windows XP, but didn't have Debian drivers. It did have Linux Mint, and Ubuntu drivers. I liked the Canon, but sent it back and bought the HP, which is twice the size and weight and came packaged in such a way, it would be nearly impossible to pack it back up again, at least for me.

On the bright side, I am getting excellent use from the HP printer for everything except business necessities.
By converting my box labels to document format, they print super fast and look fine.
I also experimented with my letterhead pages also.
Took the original letterhead with the text boxes, saved them as an image file, then embedded them in a document.
They now print OK, but I need several different ones for the different purposes I use them for.
Although I use the same letterhead, they have different text in the boxes. Such as INVOICE, STATEMENT, PURCHASE ORDER, PACKING LIST, ORDER VERIFICATION, etc.
The original prints OK on the Ink Jet, but I needed to make these special ones in order to use the new color laser printer.

Happy Birthday Yogi!

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Kellemora
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Re: Chrome 55

Post by Kellemora » 12 Dec 2016, 11:18

NOTE: I move this reply here to keep the topic all in one place - forumadmin

__________________________________________________

I probably wouldn't know how to configure Flash manually.
After each upgrade I look to see if there is a way I could make it work like the March 12, 2015 version, so I could use a newer version.

On another note, regarding PDF files and my HP printer.
I had to get another shipment ready, and rather than save the PDF file of UPS shipping labels, as I normally do, I decided to print them directly from the UPS pop-up PDF display page. They printed black as they should, although much heavier black than expected.

I moved over to a Windows XP computer to do some more checking. My thoughts were their might be a setting to prevent it from printing in half-tone. I went through four different PDF viewer settings on Windows and found no print settings other than print. Started checking different Linux versions of PDF viewers, also with no place to change settings. Although I found settings to scale the image for printing, double sided printing, etc.

It could be that when I print directly from the UPS's pop-up, it is not in a PDF format, although that's what it says, and how it is displayed. At least now I know I can print direct from the UPS website. I could not do that with the Konica/Minolta after the latest Debian upgrade and get them to come out right, which is why I always saved first then printed. On Debian 6, and 7, I could print with no problems. Old driver I guess.

Have a great day Yogi!

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yogi
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Re: A Lamentation for Yogi

Post by yogi » 12 Dec 2016, 13:31

I always thought printing was an easy thing to understand, although HP is notorious for making simple things extremely difficult to accomplish. They suck when it comes to ease of use.

It was my understanding that all one needed to do was to install the proper print driver into the local machine and that driver would do all the rest. However, over the years, I have learned that it's not solely the OS print driver that determines how things are printed. Each application from which you print has their own method. The print dialog seen in Firefox differs from the one seen in LibreOffice both of which are not the same as what you see in the Adobe Reader app. Any number of other apps seem to have their own printer interface. Thus, it's no surprise to me that when you save a file to a text or image and try to print it, you will see something other than what you see in a fly out from Adobe. The mystery of it all is that the ordinary user (you and I) do not have access to the same printing controls that the app developer has. In a way it makes sense because any two appls would produce different end products with varying print requirements. A photo quality image would not need the same treatment as a UPS label, for example.

I don't know why HP (or anyone else) would not supply the appropriate switches for us techie dudes who might have a need to vary from the norm. I can't help but think that there are too many possibilities for the driver developer to anticipate, and thus the switches are not provided. Take what they give or find something better. I'm glad you were able to find something better for your labels. :grin:

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Kellemora
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Re: A Lamentation for Yogi

Post by Kellemora » 12 Dec 2016, 20:19

I am such a DUFUS Yogi!

I had HP Web Services turned on, on the printer.
I rarely look at the touch screen since I do everything from the computer.
There was some dust on the screen and when I ran a rag over it, it scrolled to the left, and the icon that says System Services had a red glow around it. So I punched it and when it opened, the Report icon had a red glow. I'm thinking Ut Oh something is broken already. I punched the report button and it too opened a menu, Service Status had a red glow, so I punched it and it printed out a page.

It read something like, HP Web Services auto-update installed a firmware upgrade on Monday, December 5, 2016, this upgrade replaced eleven imaging module software segments.
NOTICE: If you selected Detail in Image Quality to overcome faint half-tone output, return this to the default Smooth setting to prevent excessive toner usage.

In my last note above, I said the UPS labels printed A-OK from their website, but were a little on the heavy side.
I went back and printed two labels after changing the Imaging Setting to Smooth, and now they print perfectly.
I also printed direct from my PDF files, and they were no longer half-toned.
So I tried some pages from a book, that was previously unreadable.
They too printed out perfectly.

I got to thinking, my last order where I printed UPS labels, I ALSO tried printing them from the UPS website, and they came out half-toned as well. Since I did not know about the Firmware update, that is why I assumed labels printed OK from the website, but not from the saved PDF file.

I also printed some pictures and they now print OK, a little too dark, but that was before I changed from Detail to Smooth. With the setting at Smooth, they print out great!

So, Now I am a Happy Camper, and can quit complaining, hi hi...

At least until I have to fork over the dough to buy new cartridges. A set of OEM from HP runs like 600 bucks, so I guess I will be using aftermarket cartridges.

Have a great evening Yogi.

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yogi
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Re: A Lamentation for Yogi

Post by yogi » 13 Dec 2016, 06:22

Me and updates of any kind have an agreement. The program tells me something is available, and I decide if it should be downloaded and/or installed. That's a bit of a hassle when there are a couple dozen programs that search for updates, but I pay that price in time just to avoid what you experienced. Of course I hardly ever know what exactly is being updated because I seldom read the change logs. But, I do know when it happened. In some cases I know not to do it. In the case of HP printers there never seems to be a lot of firmware updates. The first year or two may have a few, but after that it seems as if they stop supporting the printer you have and want you to buy the next model up. The Internet printers might be different, but I'd be surprised if the life cycle was any longer.

We both have had similar experiences with HP ink. The high price of ink is the way they recover costs for making their printers so cheap. However the last time I saw a $600 price tag on a set of cartridges was at Motorola where they used an 8 cartridge Tecktronics printer - yes the same company that makes oscilloscopes. Anything I used at home never went over $140 retail. Then again, I'm not earning a living from my printer.

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Kellemora
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Re: A Lamentation for Yogi

Post by Kellemora » 13 Dec 2016, 14:32

Hi Yogi

Apparently, because I use Linux, I didn't get the on-screen notice of the firmware upgrade.
I assume the installation program turned on the auto-upgrade feature, I now have it turned off.

I normally use printers as USB printers, and share them from the computer they are connected to.
It seems you have more features doing it this way.
When set-up as a LAN printer, I do not get paper or toner alerts on-screen. I have to glance at the printers on-board touch-screen window to see what's going on.

On the bright side, everything now works perfectly, no more complaints, hi hi...
Even my Invoices and Statements that didn't print right before, now print as they should, with no white boxes.

The one thing of interest I didn't know about HP printers is, you cannot connect them using both USB and LAN ports.
Doing so causes some features not to work properly. On my Konica/Minolta, I had to have both connected to get all the features to work. Different company, different method of doing things I suppose.

You would not believe how FAST this printer is. About 6 seconds from stand-by to first page out, then another page every 3 seconds. It seems much faster than the declared output speed. Duplex printing is just as fast too.

Now I can say, it was worth paying a little extra for a better quality printer!

Have a great day Yogi!

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yogi
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Re: A Lamentation for Yogi

Post by yogi » 13 Dec 2016, 19:03

The moral of the story is to keep your software (for everything) updated.

HP seems to favor Windows in that all the features are only available when you install the printer front end software on a each device accessing the printer. I haven't found equivalent Linux software for HP front end operations, but there is a "simple scan" program which uses Twain. I don't share the printer off a dedicated computer but run it as a wireless network device. This eliminates the need for a host computer, plus it allows access to the internal firmware of the printer via its IP address. A lot of those status and extra functions can be viewed via browser access. It's still not as clean as the GUI written specifically for Windows.

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Kellemora
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Re: A Lamentation for Yogi

Post by Kellemora » 14 Dec 2016, 13:56

HPLIP seems to have done an excellent job on the drivers and associated software for this MFP printer.

I also have a Windows machine and loaded the OEM drivers and software. It is different of course, but does the same stuff. The scanner works perfectly, and if you don't have the printer connected to a computer, it still scans to a USB memory stick from the on-board control panel, with limited selection options though. But if you set the scan parameters from the computer and make them the default, then you just hit the scan button and select the output and leave the other settings alone.
It also scans to print, which is slightly different than using the copy button.
The copy button only has two options, B&W or Color, where the Scan to print lets you select what resolution, and reduction, or enlarge. It can also crop and rotate, but this is easier to do from the computer than the on-board tools.
Scan to Print is only one sided, whereas Copy can copy two sided papers and print them as two sided using the duplex option.

I often have to print on different paper for one reason or another. This printer opens up from the front and you can slip up to 25 papers in the front. You don't have to change any settings, the paper is recognized and prints from the secondary feed tray first if any paper is in it. It will also print single business size checks too, or any paper as small as 2-5/8 inches wide. All I need to do is set up a document to do so, and get the printing aligned in the right places.

This is a great printer!

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