Linux DE's

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yogi
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Linux DE's

Post by yogi » 23 Nov 2019, 12:07

One of the arguments presented in favor of using Linux, as opposed to Windows, has to do with the flexibility of Linux settings. Particular attention is given to the multitude of desktop environments (DE) that are available for Linux. Windows also has alternatives from third parties, but not nearly as many. Since there is no "standard" desktop for most Linux distributions, I generally go with whatever happens to be the default in the package I have installed. Since I like to evaluate operating system I get to see quite a few different default desktop environments. Each developer seems to have their own preference.

One day I ran across the Budgie desktop in the Linux distribution called Solus. It was advertised as simple and elegant, which is the kind of thing I've been looking for in my virtual machine versions of Linux. Budgie is cool, but Solus was lacking. I kept it in a virtual environment for a while but eventually abandoned it and moved on to better things.

It so happens that I have Linux Ubuntu 19.10 installed alongside of my Windows 10 Insider Preview edition. I'm happy to report that the two have been living peacefully side by side ever since I mastered the art of UEFI. But, that's not I want to write about here. I'm slowing giving up on the value of Ubuntu due to its numerous flaws I've uncovered in my recent bootloader research. Plus Ubuntu is changing directions and starting to look more like a smartphone than a desktop. I'll wait until the next LTS version comes out in 5 months and then decide if Ubuntu is worth bothering with anymore. In the mean time I decided to spice it up a little and install the Budgie Desktop Environment just to see what it can do inside of Ubuntu. So, I did.

Budgie is still simple and elegant as viewed from inside Ubuntu 19.10, which means you have to go hunting in the taskbar's Xfce-type menu to find anything. No Ubuntu docking here. Well that is all fine given that this is just an experiment. After a long hiatus and then returning to Ubuntu/Budgie, I decided it was time to check for updates. The Budgie repository search failed because there is no release file in there. This absence and error message halted the normal Ubuntu update process. Apparently the Solus project and its Budgie desktop are on hold; perhaps abandoned. This confused me a bit because I was able to use that repository to install Budgie in the first place.

GIven that I can no longer update the desktop environment, and given that this failure also prevents updating the main operating system, I decided to uninstall Budgie. The apt package manage did purge Budgie, but it did not purge the Budgie desktop. Huh? Not only that, but the login screen is a separate package as well. Huh? Huh? Plus, now that Budgie has been installed, it also loaded a ton of dependencies and reconfigured some files to cater to it's individual needs. None of those things were removed or reconfigured back to their original state because, well, other parts of the operating system might be using the same files. There is a sure fire way to get rid of the entire Budgie desktop environment. That would be to enter the synaptic package manager and uninstall every file related to Budgie manually. That, of course, assumes you know what those files happen to be.

The last resort would be to wipe out Ubuntu altogether and reinstall it. Several people in the help forums suggested that and only one or two said it's not necessary; just do all the above package removals manually. Reluctantly, I followed the majority of suggestions and got rid of Budgie, well, most of it if not all of it. But that entire experience brings me back to the question of the so called Linux flexibility. There are indeed a lot of desktop environments to choose from and even more ways to customize them individually. But you better be damned sure you like the alternative desktop environment because unless you are a Linux developer, or as knowledgeable as one would have to be, you will never be able to purge that new desktop completely. Why all these complications are thought to be "simple and elegant" is beyond my understanding.

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Kellemora
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Re: Linux DE's

Post by Kellemora » 24 Nov 2019, 09:24

I don't remember all the codes in my head, but there is apt-get autoremove, apt-get purge, and a few others. Then to make sure you didn't remove things you need you can do a another apt-get that checks for broken dependencies and fixes them. It basically checks all of your installed programs at once and looks for missing, corrupted, or outdated dependencies and puts them all back the way they should be. If programs have conflicting dependencies, you will get a warning about that too. Like program B needs the dependency with this, and program F needs the same dependency but with this line instead. No other programs use this dependency, would you like to modify the dependency so it works with both programs?
If I recall, this does not actually change anything in the dependency, it just adds a new dependency file with a pointer to one dependency file or the other dependency file, based on which program called it.
You may not have to do this anymore though, since so many things have changed over the years since I got stuck with that problem. If I recall it had something to do with QT whatever that is. Drove me nuts, I remember that much.

I did have a problem with the Linux Mint Mate I put on Debi's mini-computer.
It has been running just fine, only playing a screen saver unless I bump the mouse connected to it.
I decided to select RANDOM Screensavers, and it seems to lock up the computer when it hits certain ones.
Darn thing would lock up two or three times a day with a frozen screen saver still on the screen. keyboard and mouse locked out too, so required a cold boot to get it going again.
If I turn of RANDOM and just select a screensaver, it doesn't seem to crash or freeze up.
So, each morning I've been selecting a different screensaver, going down the line to see which ones are causing the freeze.
I have not checked yet to see if I can remove them from the list, it may even be a package I can't touch.
On my other Linux Mint computer, I have a special photo file the screensaver points to, and it displays whatever images or pictures I have in that folder. It's in the screensaver package as Slideshow. That has been running now for a couple of years and has never hung up once. And I have that one set to run for four hours before the screen goes black.

I don't like the new style desktops at all, like Cinnamon in Mint, which is why I use the Mate desktop.
On Debian it is called Maya I think, or used to be, this version of Debian I'm on here says Mate desktop. So maybe I have Debian Mate Maya, that sounds familiar to me, hi hi. It just works without problems so I've not upgraded the distro.

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yogi
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Re: Linux DE's

Post by yogi » 24 Nov 2019, 13:14

The issue I'm describing is that the so called advantage of Linux flexibility has a heavy price tag attached to it. There is something called synaptic package manager which is pretty good at fixing broken packages. It's the only thing that gets all the dependencies right. Changing desktops is a no-brainer, but if you want to delete it and go back to the original configuration you need to know a hella lot more than "apt install <package_name>". You need to know a lot about the architecture of the desktop software because the command "apt remove <package_name>" does not actually remove it. It simply deletes the meta files used by it. This situation is reminiscent of removing programs from Windows. Only the executable parts are erased and the rest of the garbage remains. A person with advanced knowledge of how Linux and it's desktop software actually works would be able to completely remove the unwanted desktop software. Guess what happens then ... if you guessed that the kernel must be rebuilt and the OS rebooted, you would be correct. Again, this looks like all the bad things Linux lovers have to say about Windows.

I don't bother with screen savers in spite of what some people tell me about modern displays being capable of burning images permanently into them. I go directly to the lock screen and shut it all off after about twenty minutes. Not only does that save power consumption but it also prevents any pixels from gaining immortality.

Qt would be the equivilant to Bootstrap for HTML. It's an environment used for creating your own desktop. One of the distros I have on USB uses it and it looks fine in the default mode. As with everything else Linux there are hundreds of options possible. Functions are given different names in spite of the fact they replicate exactly what is done in other desktop environments. You won't believe haw many names they can give to a basic text editor or partition manager. It's crazy, but the Linux boys love it.

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Kellemora
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Re: Linux DE's

Post by Kellemora » 25 Nov 2019, 10:47

There are only about three places, folders, where Linux programs might install some of their components. Unlike Windows where programs add things in 50 different places, and using unique names so you can never find them all.
A good percentage of Linux programs install everything only in their folder, with a control program located elsewhere. The normal place is .config. The dependency files don't really matter if you don't remove them, because you can run autoclean and any unused dependency is deleted.
If you don't think programs Hide dozens of files from you, just install a program with a 30 day trial, and then try to uninstall and reinstall it and then get it to run. No matter how many files you find that go to that program, you'll never get it going again without reinstalling the Windows OS to a newly formatted hard drive.
On Linux all you do is go to the .config file, find the programs folder, open the control file in a text editor, and change the number of uses back to 1 or 2 and you are good to go again. Even if the file is encrypted, you can copy the new file when you install the program, and each time it runs out, just copy the original file back again.
On very rare occasions they may hide a second file in .etc or .user, but there are very few places they are allowed to write to in Linux. But on Windows, they can write anywhere they chose to write, due to Windows low security.

They say LCD monitors do not get raster burn. However, I see it all the time when I go to places like the hospital where the hospital logo is displayed 24/7 on the machines monitors.
Most of my machines I have set to just go black, and turn off the monitor after ten to twenty minutes.
But the older computer that is iffy I let a screensaver run for about a half hour.
The newest, Debi's formerly Win10 machine, I loaded a picture file into and now have it running a slideshow.
The mouse to that computer is at the top of my glass area in my desk, so all I have to do is thump my desk to get it to turn on the monitor and start the slideshow.

Speaking of which. I bought Debi one of those picture frames that scroll through several pictures.
It worked right for about six months, then started shutting itself off after an hour or two.
Getting ready for Christmas, we loaded it up with old pictures taken at Christmas from years past.
Darn thing runs though about half of them before it shuts off, and every time you start it, it starts over at the beginning again.
Found out our TV can do the same thing. But you have to load everything onto an SD card in a certain way, which I've not yet figured out, then set the TV to read that card continuous by forming a loop so it starts over when it reaches the end of the file. Basically, I need to create a slideshow video to put on the SD card. I've never messed with doing anything like that. Nor do I have the time to look into it right now. I'm sure it is easy based on the number of short videos I see on Farcebook an YouTube.

I was looking for an update manager similar to what Linux Mint uses. Couldn't find one I liked for Debian.
Then I was in the set-up program and saw it already had one installed, but I had set it to automatic mode, to install all security updates, and only notify if it has a kernel to install, which I have to let it do after knowing about it.
It is not obtrusive like on Linux Mint, no pop-up to tell me. But now I know why the little Debian logo turns orange or red sometimes. I never paid enough attention to realize it goes back to gray after I run updates manually. At least now I know to click on it when it is orange or red and the update manager will open. Doh!

On another note: I just learned, after being with this new Host Provider for a couple of years now, maybe longer.
They do have a free SSL for the main page and sub-domains. I tried to turn it on, but it asked for a couple things I didn't know the answer to. Been too busy to try and do it again. I don't think this was available for free until they merged with Ionos. I do have a Premier package, with unlimited everything, hi hi. But optional things still cost you extra if you want to use them. I just needed a Host for my personal websites is all, and they had the best deal with the most features, so that's who I went with. 1&1-Ionos.

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yogi
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Re: Linux DE's

Post by yogi » 25 Nov 2019, 19:00

Your defense of Linux is quite interesting. When you download a trial version of software and they put a time limit on its use, that is the terms of use. It's a one time deal for evaluation purposes. After that you are expected to move on to something else or buy a proper license. You are telling me that Linux makes it easy, compared to Windows, to break the terms of use for those trial software downloads. I'm sure that's exactly why Linux is the preferred OS among the world's top hackers and terrorists. Windows, on the other hand, by your own admission, seems to be doing what it is intended to do. I guess certain people would consider that a flaw.

LCD displays? Raster burn? There is no phosphorus in liquid crystals to be burned away by a constant stream of electrons. While I cannot dispute the phenomena occurring on LCD monitors, raster burn is something left over from the old CRT days. I'd guess LED's are less prone to burning, but I could be wrong there. It does make me wonder, however, what kind of monitors are used in doctors' offices. I've not seen a burned out one in ages. Then again, and fortunately, I don't visit doctors as often as you do.

Update managers is another aspect of Linux that in my opinion would best be standardized. There are three or four distinct types that I've seen and Ubuntu used to be the best. They now have instituted automatic updates for security patches. The problem there is that the auto updater hangs for an exceptionally long period of time and disables any other kind of update until it finishes. If you don't mind waiting 15 minutes because something is screwed up in the repository, then that's a great feature. Linux Mint updates with no problem, because there NEVER are any updates on the list. You have to refresh the list first in order to see the updates. For some reason that's missing from the instructions. Then there are others that allow you to pick and choose which updates you want. That might seem like a good idea, but it demands that you know what all those update packages are. No sane Linux user would have that knowledge. So, yeah. I'm happy for you that you found something in Debian that you like. Magia has an interesting way of doing updates and removals. They give you a list and you check what you want and uncheck what you don't want. Seems simple and straight forward, and I do like the way it uninstalls. But again, you have to know what it is exactly you are installing or you could crash your system.

Many many moons ago I made some slide shows for people graduating from high school. It was absolutely easy and straight forward, but it was from Adobe Flash, something called Shockwave I think. I paid $30 for it an never regretted it. Never used it for my own purposes, but the people I gave the show sticks too loved it. We have one of those picture frames with a slide show presentation in it. It's been around for at least a dozen years. Only recently has my wife decided to put it to rest.

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Kellemora
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Re: Linux DE's

Post by Kellemora » 26 Nov 2019, 10:18

To set things straight here. I do donate to the makers of every program I use all the time.
But there are programs I may download to try out, but they were not for the purpose I thought they were.
Or I only needed it for one thing, one time, then forgot about it until I needed to do that job again.
By then I was on a different computer and downloaded it again. Used it for maybe two days, then it sat unused.
When I went to use it again, my trial period had expired, and I only needed it for one simple task.
In cases like this, yes I do go find the countdown timer and reset it.

I have one program that was free to use, but they had options, such as, If I shared their ad on Farcebook, it opened up some of the optional features. So I did that, only to find I didn't need those optional features. But there are other optional features you can open by sending them ten bucks. I send in the ten bucks and find I will never need any of those optional features, but it now makes the program legit. They sent me a code to add to the file and where it was located, it was in a different place than where you entered the code for shared on Farcebook. I entered it and all was A-OK on that computer.

When I got the Silver Yogi, I downloaded a copy of the program and began using it again. Hit the thirty day limitation.
Went into the file to reset the counter, and also added the shared on farcebook code. But for the life of me, could not remember where they had me enter the paid code, or what that code was.
Unlike Windows where you have to have a license for every machine, Linux covers all personal machines, mainly because you can only use one at a time anyhow.
I sent an e-mail to the company asking where they had me put the paid code after I paid them.
They said it could have been in any of six different files, and they would have no way of knowing which one was assigned to the program I downloaded, because each one has a different serial number. They do this to keep folks from sharing the paid code with others. I don't blame the really.
So, I got the code from the newest version I downloaded and sent that to them along with the ten bucks and they sent me the paid code and where to enter it. Now it is done in the opening screen, so you don't know where it is stored on your computer, and the log file does not show where something was written to now either.
So, by doing it this way, it is really no different than how Windows does it. We don't know where they put the code or in how many places.

I know LCD and LED screens don't actually burn like a raster screen does.
But looking at the hospital monitors, it is obvious the screen gets stained from sitting with the same logo 24/7.
Also, most LED monitors are really LCD monitors using an LED backlight instead of fluorescent.
I don't think we could afford a true LED monitor where the pixels are displayed by LED's.
Oh, on LCD monitors, regardless of how backlit, they have a name for the burn-in, it is called Image Persistence.

Image persistence, or image retention, is the LCD and plasma display equivalent of screen burn. Unlike screen burn, the effects are usually temporary and often times not visible without close inspection.

OK, I guess they monitors are not really damaged, the persistence is just prominent because the screen stays on the same opening screen so long, and if they changed it would eventually go away.

I've paid as high as 450 dollars for Windows XP programs, and some of those I may have only used for like a month, then with a couple of year laps. Like AutoSketch. I only needed it before I started a renovation project on my house.
The next time I needed to use it, I got warnings that it was updated, and I needed to pay to get the update.
I used it without the updates and it worked just fine.
If you have 10 or more expensive programs on your computer, and have to update them every time Windows upgrades, you'll go broke in short order.
With Linux, 50,000 programs are free, and some of them are so good they have been ported over for Windows users to enjoy. This was an attempt to get Windows users to see how good Linux programs really are, but I think it backfired.
LibreOffice has more Windows downloads than they do Linux downloads, hi hi.
Perhaps on Windows, they should have used the free trial version method, but free on LInux, hi hi.
Hmm, maybe that's illegal.

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yogi
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Re: Linux DE's

Post by yogi » 26 Nov 2019, 13:57

Let me be clear and say that I am not being judgmental and questioning your motives when you go in and reset the countdown timer on trial software. What I am trying to point out is that Linux makes it easy to break the security of such programs and Windows goes through great lengths to preserve it. I consider that a flaw in how Linux operates. You might come back and tell me that Linux is blameless and the programmers of the limited use software need to be better at what they are doing. If that is your stance, then I'd have to conclude Windows is actually better at protecting the intellectual property of programmers than is Linux.


The technology behind liquid crystals is such that it requires back lighting in order to see the image. LEDs emit light instead of reflecting it as does LCDs. IPS monitors are something new to me and apparently a hybrid of LCD and LED. They are used on mobile devices a lot because of their high quality. I believe they do not require backlighting, but they are costly. Image Persistence is LCD related. This too is a function of the technology wherein the alignment of the crystals keeps the image in place similar to residual magnetism on a hard drive. The LCDs, however, will lose it's persistence over time.


And FWIW, I have no qualms about using free software to replace that which is highly priced just so that it can run on Windows. I am also happy to send Microsoft my hard earned money so that I can enjoy a product that just works. OK, just works most of the time, which is more than Linux does. LOL

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Kellemora
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Re: Linux DE's

Post by Kellemora » 27 Nov 2019, 10:53

Most Linux programs are free, and this is one reason I make a donation to the those who make the programs I use.

I don't have the luxury of buying software.
After they deduct Medicare from my SS check it is only $777.90
From that I must deduct my Supplemental Health Plan at $147.33
My Utility Bill at an average of $280.00
We are down to $350.57 so far.
From this I have to set aside $60.00 per month to cover my real estate taxes.
$70.00 for the insurance on our two cars.
$20.00 co pay to each of my doctors, quarterly visits so stays at $20.00 for them.
$60.00 co pay to my heart doctor, divided by 3, so that's another 20 bucks.
I'm down to $180.00 at this point.
I give my wife 100 dollars toward her Insulin which is over 400 per month.
I don't buy my much needed Inhalers for my COPD because they are 500 bucks a month.
I make my own cigarettes, which comes to about 36 bucks a month.
And I buy my own soda, average 75 a month because others drink it too.
That leaves me with $69.57 to buy food, clothing, maintenance on the house, maintenance on the vehicles, pay for vet bills and rabies tags, toilet paper, soap, after shave, and gas to get to the doctors and store, etc.
The County says I make too much money to get my real estate taxes frozen at the current rate.
Drug companies say I make too much money to get a discount coupon for my meds.
Or they offer no discount at all if you are on Medicare.
I'm white so I don't qualify for food stamps, welfare, or any other subsidy program.

Two doors down from me, in one of the newly built Houses for Humanity homes.
Both him and her work a 40 hour week.
She works 3 days a week at a sporting goods store, and 2-1/2 long days at a bakery.
He works 4 days a week as a commercial laundry truck driver, and 1 day at a storage warehouse.
They pay 330 bucks a month as the house payment.
Get a 20% discount on their utility bill.
Get Welfare, Food Stamps, EBT, and 50% of their Child Care paid for.
Plus a $2,400.00 monthly subsidy check.
They both drive new super nice cars, and have small camper.
They are neither white or black, some Eurasian race, but both were born here.

So how is it they get all this money and free stuff or discounts?
And I can't even afford the medicines I'm supposed to take.

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yogi
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Re: Linux DE's

Post by yogi » 27 Nov 2019, 14:53

The smartassed response to your poser is that what you describe happens way too often because our system of governance is not socialized enough to allow for the equities you are wanting to see.

I know that kind of answer can provoke an emotional response, and please be assured that is not what I'm trying to do here. The fact in the matter is that our system is broken. It is biased in favor of the wealthy and against those who are not. It's not fair and equal for everybody and cannot easily be made that way. But you already know that because you are on the losing end of the equation every day of your life.

Our fate as a nation is in the hands of those who govern us. There are people running for president next year who have ideas that would address the exact situation you describe. Those people are not doing well because they are considered too socialistic or progressive in their point of view. Could be that they are. The concern I have written about here more than once is with the current regime. The Trump phenomena is a result of many years of the kind of inequities you elaborated. The current Republican Party, and Donald Trump as its leader, believes democracy is fatally flawed and doomed to extinction in this country. The perception is that the liberal establishment is corrupt beyond repair and is taking down all the institutions we have grown to know and love with it. That viewpoint is the bases for just about all the political activity in today's America.

While the Trumpanistas may have an element of truth in their arguments, a critical analysis will show that our democratic republic is, and has been, under assault for many years. Disinformation and disruption of long standing democratic institutions are in full swing. Corruption is rampant today. The current president and the Republican party that blindly supports him is deliberately, or accidentally, contributing to the rapid demise of the whole system. That is the state of political affairs regardless of who brought us to this point. My deep concern is that the current leadership is accelerating that which they claim is flawed. If their efforts should come to fruition, then you will indeed see equity established among the average 99% of the citizenry. We will all be in the situation you are in today while the remaining 1% will bathe in their ill-gotten luxury.

I'll be the first to admit that the liberal establishment isn't perfect. However, the assault being led by the current administration puts us at a crisis point with our constitution. The next general election will be the defining moment for where we are headed in the long term. The leadership that comes out of the 2020 general election will determine if you are guaranteed to die a pauper, or if somebody will make an effort to correct the flaws. At the moment the greed of the wealthy class dominates. Hopefully enough voters will assemble to change that.


That's my political commentary. It's not going to change the inequities you witness nor is it likely to make you feel better. It certainly won't affect your views of the system. About all I can realistically expect is that you understand I am thinking about the same things you think about. I am very thankful that I'm not required to budget my life to the same exactness as you are compelled to do, not yet anyway. Not having been in the same situation you find yourself in, I feel unable to offer any useful advice. I can only tell you that I've read your many stories of personal success. Hang in there. As the real Yogi (Berra) would say, "It ain't over til it's over."

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Kellemora
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Re: Linux DE's

Post by Kellemora » 28 Nov 2019, 09:36

I understand what you are saying Yogi!
However, it is the Democrats who have blocked every single bill presented to the house for those on Social Security recipients.
One of Trumps early campaign promises was to get the minimum amount of SS raised to 1200 dollars.
For a couple of years I thought he forgot about it, but found out it was made a bill and sent to the house, and killed.
The most recent thing he did was instead of using a percentage increase, was to raise SS by something like 330 dollars for everyone, including those who get a lot already. It was killed by the house also.
At least he did get the amount you could earn by working raised so it didn't come out of your SS check. That passed, but with a rider to now tax our SS over a certain amount I think.

You may see things differently than I do. But to me it looks like Congress has not got anything done at all in the past three years except waste money trying to impeach a sitting president, just like the Democrats have done again every Republican president since Eisenhower. The Dems get absolutely nothing done and don't let much of anything pass during those administrations. And for some reason, they think the foreign born Muslim was the cat's meow. And the Clinton's, by God I'm glad that witch didn't get elected.
We already have enough problems with the individual states operating as a Democracy instead of a Republic.
Coming from Chicago, and seeing all the problems in that state, I can't believe you still think socialism is the way to go.

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yogi
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Re: Linux DE's

Post by yogi » 28 Nov 2019, 17:54

As you read this, there are nearly 200 bills which were passed by the Democratic controlled house this year, 2019, sitting on the desk of senate majority leader Mitch McConnell. We don't know if any of those bills would pass because the leader of the Republican majority party refuses to put any of them up for discussion or a vote. This stinks to high heaven because he is abdicating the constitutionally defined role of the senate. The blockade rises out of the philosophy I described in my previous post, i.e., today's Republican party views anything and everything coming from the opposing party as flawed and without merit. The opposing party is called the "liberal establishment" and up to no good by definition. The comments you just posted reflect that point of view. While that's fine when you and I debate here, it is absolutely destructive when it comes to the function of government.

It will never cease to amaze me how the majority of people who identify themselves as Republicans agree that the current president is engaged in criminal activity but believe it is ok. They say he should not be held accountable by congress as the Constitution mandates, but instead the voters should be allowed to decide his fate. It's hard for me to fathom that you would seem to share that view.

For these and many other reasons I feel the next election will make or break this country, be it a republic, a democracy, or both.


And, FWIW I don't affiliate myself with any political party. I brought up socialism because you were concerned about the inequalities of the current system in this country. Some of the ideas within that philosophy could benefit a society such as ours, but like yourself I think embracing socialism to it's full extent is a death wish.
Last edited by yogi on 29 Nov 2019, 15:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Kellemora
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Re: Linux DE's

Post by Kellemora » 29 Nov 2019, 10:13

FWIW Yogi, my entire family and most of our relatives were all Democrats, and we were proud to be Democrats too!

Some people thought it odd that a large business was not Republican, since most of the large businesses were, and only a few of the smaller stores clung to the Democratic party.

Back then, and up through the Kennedy era, Democrats were fairly honest, and the Republicans were bare faced liars.
We had two major newspapers: The largest was the St. Louis Post Dispatch, and the second largest was the St. Louis Globe-Democrat. Guess which one was the Republican Newspaper?
I'll give you a hint, remember, back then, the Republicans lied about everything.
The Globe was the Republican paper!

Just like Los Angeles, Chicago, and a few others, St. Louis has gone downhill drastically under Democratic leadership.

We saw a major change in the parties after Kennedy, it was a slow transition, but it is like the two parties changed to opposite of what they were. It didn't happen overnight of course, but my family and almost all of my relatives now belong to the Republican Party or like I did, became an Independent. I normally voted for the Independent candidate, until recently. I knew it was a wasted vote, but it soon became too important to waste my vote on an Independent who I knew couldn't win, and shifted to Republican. It didn't do any good, the foreign born Muslim still got elected, twice, and has darn near destroyed our country. We will reap the side affects of his damage for many years to come, and may not be able to reverse the damage he did while in office.

We don't have to become socialists to have broad medical coverage.
But a thumb does need to be placed on the pharmaceutical companies for their price fixing agreements.

Although Canada and a few other places have government subsidized health care.
The drug companies are selling the exact same drug to them for half price and to India for one-quarter of the price they charge pharmacies for it here.

I did some checking only a couple of months ago, after reading of a few on-line pharmacies.
The doctor gave me a list of six different alternative drugs I could take to do the same thing.
One example is an Anoro inhaler.
Here it is 514 dollars.
I can order it from a Canadian pharmacy for 129 dollars, and no the cost is not subsidized by the government.
I also found a pharmacy in India that ships to the U.S. who sells it for 88 bucks.
I worried that it might be a generic or back room made illegal duplicate, so I checked further.
Nope, it is the real deal, made right here by the manufacturer and shipped to India by the case loads.
They do nothing to it, other than take it out of the case and put it in a mailing carton.
It is the exact same product, in the same packaging as if I bought it locally.

But this is where the insurance companies get you.
They will not cover any part of the drug unless it comes from a U.S. pharmacy.
But they will PUSH you into the Donut Hole for buying it anywhere, from any country, at the price they charge here.
And that is something else that irks a lot of us. It started with Obamacare and that influence on the insurance companies.
The insurance companies get a big discount on the drugs.
So if the retail price is 514, and you have met your 415 deductible, then you only pay 30 bucks for it.
However, they only paid 150 for it, BUT STILL say the amount to push you into the donut hole is 514.

January starts a new year, and Debi is in the Doughnut Hole by the end of February or beginning of March.
Although insurance does not cover Insulin at all, whatever drugs you buy out of pocket, still pushes you into the donut hole. It wasn't like that until Obama ruined the entire system and messed up Medicare Drug Plans big time.

I know you don't agree with me, but I've not seen the Democrats do one good thing for this country in the past couple of decades. Now that we have a Republican president, the Democrats are doing nothing, except trying to Impeach him, just like they have every Republican president since Eisenhower.
Trump is an outsider, not a part of their crooked politics and greed. And they are blatantly showing just how corrupt they all are, on both sides, Republican and Democrat alike.
I really do hope all of them are voted out in 2020, and term limits are set for both the house and the senate.
Congress was not created as a CASH COW for poly-TICK-ians to become wealthy for doing nothing for the people.
But that is what it has become!
A Civil War is Brewing and we both will probably live to see the carnage.
I used to think it would be the Cowboys vs the Muslims.
But the more I stand back and look closer, it is going to be the American Patriots against the Socialists and poly-TICK-ians.

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yogi
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Re: Linux DE's

Post by yogi » 29 Nov 2019, 16:55

We do not agree on political issues for many reasons. That's a given, and it's one reason why I keep this forum going. I want to know what the other side is thinking, doing and believing. I'm convinced that there is an ongoing effort to subvert our government. The weapon that has been most effective is visible in some of the comments you have made in the past. That weapon is disinformation. I'm quoting you and an article that debunks one idea you have expressed often. I recommend that you do not read the entire piece so that you could avoid a lot of grief. I'm posting it only as an example of what has been happening since the time of JFK. The headline says it all.
I know you don't agree with me, but I've not seen the Democrats do one good thing for this country in the past couple of decades. Now that we have a Republican president, the Democrats are doing nothing, except trying to Impeach him, just like they have every Republican president since Eisenhower.

FACT CHECK: https://www.vox.com/2019/11/29/20977735 ... rats-trump


Getting back to the subject line of this thread ... :mrgreen:

I've taken a liking for Linux Mageia. It's buggy and a fork of the old reliable Fedora operating system. It's slightly different from the way things are done by the Debian/Ubuntu crowd and reminds me of my heyday as a Unix system admin. But, it is in the end Linux and suffers some of the same lack of finesse and maturity as in many other OS's I've talked about here.

At the time of installation of Mageia one is given the choice of desktops: Plasma, Gnome, or customized (a combo of both). The first time I installed Mageia I did the customized desktop. Whatever showed up in the final installation is what piqued my interest in the entire OS. Unfortunately, whatever merits the OS has were grossly distorted by the multitude of settings, configurations, and adjustments you could make to your personal environment. This massive number of choices is a talking point for most Linux promoters, but I found it burdensome. In fact, it bordered on being broken so that I decided to reinstall it because I could not fix it to work as I would like it. Keep in mind that Mageia is installed on my laptop along with the infamous Windows 10 and it's UEFI boot scheme.

I downloaded the latest Mageia and took careful note that it was indeed the latest version and UEFI. I did not use the traditional USB installer as I have done in the past, but instead I used the Linux mkusb program to copy the downloaded .iso to the USB memory stick. Apparently it is better because the memory stick booted right up with no problems. When I got to the choice of DE's I selected Plasma. I made a small error in the partitioning sequence and reduced the size to just a tiny bit more than the unpacked .iso. It booted and worked ok, but for one reason or another it did not show up in the Windows bootmanager as it did with the original installation. No worries in that I have rEFInd installed and booted into Mageia with that. I jiggled a few settings to get the feel of Plasma but decided to reinstall one more time because I didn't like the small partition size and was a bit confused about why Mageia didn't appear in the Windows bootmanger.

This time around I selected the Gnome desktop. You know ... give them all a try as long as I'm wasting time reinstalling the OS. I got the partitioning right this time but Mageia still didn't show up in the Windows bootmanager. Not only that, but I could not get past the Gnome login screen. It was that notorious nVidia card problem rearing it's ugly head once again. How odd. I previously installed the same OS but with a Plasma DE and that worked perfectly. Gnome, however, failed to call up the right video drivers.

One more reinstall and I got it all right. Everything was working peachy, or at least working to the degree I expected it to, but still no choice in the Windows bootmanager. I looked into the UEFI partition just to see if Mageia did in fact install Grub where it was supposed to. It did. Yet, all the OS's showed up in the boot device selection menu, all but Mageia. I fixed it with a tool I bought for Windows but could have done the same thing with the native Linux uefimgr program. It was just easier to do in Windows because it was a Windows issue and I didn't have to read up on how to use the software. So, it's all fixed now and running fine.

HOWEVER, I learned that yet another Linux distribution does not play well with Windows in the UEFI environment. Also, I learned that all DE's are not created equal. Gnome is pretty popular, but it fails the basic test of loading a video driver so that you can actually use Gnome. KDE Plasma is arguably more complicated, but it works without any intervention from the user. So I tested out what I was told to be an advantage of Linux over Windows, yet again. I chose a different desktop just because I could. That supposed advantage crashed the OS.

I'm keeping Mageia installed on the laptop because of my great disappointment with Ubuntu; also on the laptop. I will continue to evaluate Mageia and should things work out I will simply relegate Ubuntu to a Linux on a Stick status as opposed to being my default Linux experiment.

And, since you are here ... I tried to install a program called bleachbit on Mageia. It's in their repository and did install to a working state. I got a nag message saying there is a newer version, which I downloaded and tried to install. It said it cannot install because of a dependency issue with gtk3. That's all I got. I don't know what is actually missing and cannot find any reference to this problem on the Internet. So, my question to you, an experienced Linux protagonist, is "How do I find out what the missing dependency is?" The program knows, but it's not telling me. Is there a way to figure this out? I usually would use synaptic package manager, but since this is Fedora no such thing exists. So I'm at a brick wall at the moment.

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Kellemora
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Re: Linux DE's

Post by Kellemora » 30 Nov 2019, 11:29

I'll start by saying, looking at the TITLE of a BILL, does not tell you about the RIDERS they TAG to those Bills.
Most of those killed by the Senate are done so because of the RIDERS.
If they would put a CLEAN BILL before the Senate, that is beneficial to the People, without adding the heavy unwanted items as part of the Bill, they would have a much better chance of getting them passed.

We have enough Laws on the books as it is. And most of them are just reiterations of laws we already have.

Nearly every bill that passed the house had some rider on it that killed it in the senate from the git go!

Well there are a couple of ways of finding missing dependencies.
The one I use most often is: Note replace packagename with the name of the program you are using.
apt-cache depends packagename
if that don't work then I use
apt-cache rdepends packagename
if the program is already installed and not working, try this one instead
apt-cache rdepends --installed packagname

Here is one I've never had to use yet,
sudo apt-get -f install
I don't remember if it gets packagename after it, or if it jumps up and asks to install what?

Many times a certain dependency was depreciated and removed from the repositories.
In that case, look for a newer version of the program you are trying to install.

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yogi
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Re: Linux DE's

Post by yogi » 01 Dec 2019, 09:43

Thank you for the suggestions regarding dependencies. The apt tool only works with the dpkg packaging system which in only found in Debian/Ubuntu operating systems. Mageia is Fedora based. I was only vaguely aware of that situation but was hoping there was some general Linux kernel module that might address the issue. I'm betting there is, but neither you or I had an occasion to use it.

The program in question is called bleachbit. This is simply a cleanup utility that is available across many of the popular platforms; even Windows. The repo for Mageia has ver 2.2 in it and it works as intended. When the program is started that nag message comes up saying there is a newer version, ver 3.0. I can download the rpm and it starts to install, but stops when it notes the dependency issue. I've searched for everything that mentions gtk3 and is installed on my current OS, and get back dozens of packages; some installed, some not. Thus I am kind of stuck trying to figure out what they are talking about.


As far as the "Do Nothing Democrats" go, apparently you are missing the point. All those hundreds of bills sitting on McConnel's desk have not been sent to the Senate floor regardless of the riders that may or may not have been attached. Some observers are wondering why, but it is obvious to the most casual observer that the Democrats are being erroneously charactherized as do-nothing.

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Kellemora
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Re: Linux DE's

Post by Kellemora » 01 Dec 2019, 10:23

gtk3 has caused me a few problems in years past, and something else too, that should have been in the package but wasn't.
Seems there are several different versions, and unless you know which version it is calling, you are SOL at least I was.

I know little to nothing about RedHat and it's derivatives. I only played with RedHat eons ago, before giving up on Linux for several years. I did mess with CentOS a little after using Ubuntu, but for my purposes going Debian was the best route for me.

Maybe you could try looking for the Fedora version equivalent to apt-get commands.

McConnell has been well liked by both parties over the years. So if something stalled on his desk, there is something not good about it, and often it is the riders they stick in.
In my opinion every bill should be stand alone, no quid pro quo add-ons, because they usually take way more than they give.
A Bill for a new badly needed bridge that everyone would vote for, comes with a horrible rider nobody wants, like busing county students to inner city schools. Hoping the people will vote for the bridge they want. They did because the bridge was sorely needed. And you know all the problems busing caused!
This is the main reason a bill gets killed on McConnell's desk, as it should be!

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yogi
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Re: Linux DE's

Post by yogi » 01 Dec 2019, 14:08

When I feel ambitious I'll investigate the problems with bleachbit in Mageia. It's got to be an issue like certain desktop environments which may or may not call the proper video drivers to make them work. It all depends on how the particular developer was feeling that day. You got to love Free and Open Source developers.



I know of 53 senators and one president who like McConnell. I think you're missing some of the picture here about what he is doing and why, but that's just my opinion.

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Kellemora
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Re: Linux DE's

Post by Kellemora » 02 Dec 2019, 10:48

Honestly, I try to stay out of poly-TICks because it only makes my blood boil.
I don't think there is a single honest poly-TICK-ian out there. No not even Trump a businessman.
But compared to the alternatives running for office of president, it looks like he will be a landslide shoo-in.

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yogi
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Re: Linux DE's

Post by yogi » 02 Dec 2019, 15:48

The surprise of my life in 2016 was the number of people who supported Donald Trump.
I'm hoping you will be equally surprised come 2020.

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Kellemora
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Re: Linux DE's

Post by Kellemora » 03 Dec 2019, 11:45

I don't know any former democrats who are still democrats, they have all sided with Trump now.
Especially after seeing what kind of damage the left has planned for this country.

Trump will win by a landslide in 2020!

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