Another Linux Failure, Knoppix Edition

[yogi]

Come to think of it, the very first Linux program I installed in that machine was Knoppix.
I've always kept a Knoppix disk handy when I first started working with Linux, but I don't remember why now. Probably to get in after I broke something.

You posted this in another thread. It was the inspiration I needed to go on yet another Linux mission. I've heard Knoppix mentioned a few times in my sordid past but never was motivated to actually try it out. One reason had to do with my investment in Microsoft Windows and other live CD's that did what Knoppix claims to be capable of doing. I have some room for one more Linux OS on the MSI laptop, and since this is not a distribution of Ubuntu I didn't think there would be any conflicts in names such as incurred with Linux Mint. So, off I went on a search for Knoppix.

I should have been suspicious from the very start given the obvious origins of Knoppix. It's written by a team of German software engineers who worked with Debian. This is a deadly combination I know about from past Linux experiences with software from Deutschland. All I will say here is that Europeans in general, Germans in particular, have an attitude. They don't do software like us Yanks. And, if you ever want to experience subtle humiliation, ask them for tech support.

Anyway, It turns out that there are several popular versions of Knoppix floating around the Internet. The version most readily available happens to be 7.6.0. It comes in CD, DVD, and USB flavors, and is designed to run portable using their CDFS formatted disk; not Fat32, not ext4, certainly not NTFS, and not anything that the rest of the world uses. But hey, Knoppix is famous and well accepted. They must be onto something. So I downloaded the DVD version .iso file that exceeds 4GB of memory. That's huge compared to most other Linux distros I've tried lately, but then there is a lot on that Knoppix disc. The normal thing to do with a downloaded .iso file is to burn it to DVD and use it to boot into a live session. So I did that. I shoved the DVD into the MSI laptop and rebooted from a cold start. I expected the DVD to click and chatter and then bring up the system. Unfortunately, none of that happened. Windows came up instead suggesting that the DVD was not bootable.

Well sh*t happens, so I decided to put that .iso image on a USB stick instead using the software Knoppix suggests, Etcher. I started the burn and got a warning from Etcher that the .iso I was trying to install on the USB device was not bootable. Do I really want to go ahead? I chose to go ahead and see what happens. Did the burn and rebooted ... into Windows once again. I checked the signature of the download and it matched the md5 signature from Knoppix. This was odd so I put the USB into the desktop tower and tried to boot from there. No bootable device found. WTF? At that point I figured it was time to read the directions. There are no directions for ver 7.6.0 but there are for the latest release 8.5. On the description page they clearly state that their OS is intended to be run from a live CD, and if I want a USB bootable version, I have to create the USB version from a running version of Knoppix. What kind of software developers create an iso that is lacking the boot files? The guys in Germany, that's who! All I can figure is that their CDFS is proprietary and and the regular boot files that the rest of the world uses are useless. Since I was trying to create a running version of Knoppix, their USB conversion was useless too.

Not being daunted by odd ball programmers, I thought I'd try putting the original DVD into the desktop tower. Lo and behold it booted into Knoppix. I was amazed and awestruck by what is in there. It's truly a worthy OS to have as a resource. So, I then burned the USB stick from within the live DVD session of Knoppix. Once that completed I removed the DVD and booted from the USB memory. That worked peachy. At that point I knew it was at least theoretically possible for Knoppix to boot from USB, and that encouraged me to slip it into the MSI laptop ... where it started to boot but stalled in the splash screen. Where have I seen this before? UGH! The Knoppix documentation offers a few kernel commands one could try for what they call a defective graphics card (no, THEIR software would never be defective). It was the same set of nomodeset commands I've used a thousand times already to get around the nVidia card problem. In this case those kernel commands did nothing.

Back to the Knoppix instructions for version 8.5 for some enlightenment. There is a list of improvements in this latest version. One of them is a fix for "modern" graphics cards and the other of interest was introduction of the ability to boot "efi" in the secure mode. Well, if they can do secure boot, then normal boot would be easy peasey. These instructions are actually part of a magazine the Knoppix folks publish. The long and the short of it is that you no longer can download FREE copies of Knoppix. You have to buy their magazine in order to get a copy of the program. So much for the "F" part of FOSS. They changed their policy when they jumped from the 7.x series to the 8.x series, which is when they added EFI capability. This is their clever way of charging for something that is free.

Well, technically, only the Linux kernel is free. I understand that. Plus, Those German dudes with an attitude are actually doing a good job. It's just another example of how Linux developers are behind the times and how FOSS does not really mean free software.

[Kellemora]

I didn't even know Knoppix was still around, hi hi.
The copy I have is so small it fits on a mini-CD disk.
I only used it to boot up a frozen computer to see what was wrong.
Never once used it as an OS, and never installed it on anything.
It was also my first introduction to a partitioning program if I recall.

Well, you made me do it. I had to look back to see what versions of Knoppix I happen to have.
I did find I did download a newer version 7.0.4 back on October 24, 2012 for some reason.
But the one I used most often before that was version 5.1.1 from August 28, 2008, this is the one on the mini-CD.

I had some really OLDE early 386 computers built for me by computer world.
One I tried an early version of RedHat on, but never did much with it until I tried Ubuntu years later.
The other had Windows 3.11 on it, and the version of Family Tree Maker in use when it was fairly new.
It worked just fine with Windows 98, so after I upgraded from DOS FTM to Windows FTM, I never upgraded after that.
Then the computer I had RedHat on, I deleted and put Windows 3.11 on it I think on it, could have been Windows XP.
Both of these machines were originally Windows 95 machines when I had them built, hi hi.
All I can say is they lasted a long long time before they became totally obsolete.

Now, if you want a good laugh. Back when I had 286 machines, I bought a very expensive Cougar Mountain Accounting Program. This was a multi-user program too, although I didn't need that feature at the time.
When I got the 386 machines, they gave me the new upgrade free of charge, which was a big surprise. But then I found out why as I started to do more with accounting than what their original program did. You had to buy each Module for each separate task separately. I did buy a couple of them I really needed, but then switched over to the early QuickBooks but I don't think it was called that yet. It was more like the home version of QuickBooks, but I soon needed to upgrade to the real QuickBooks and then later to QuickBooks pro. Then they started adding way too many bells and whistles to it which for my usage made it harder to use, so after moving over to Linux, I abandoned QuickBooks.

[yogi]

I did a lot of searching for Knoppix and several times I've seen the same comment you made, "I didn't even know Knoppix was still around." LOL I'm guessing Knoppix had it's hay day back when DOS was popular, but it's a treasure trove of goodies that any hack or geek must have. There is an equivalent live OS for Windows and it goes by the name of UBCD, the Ultimate Boot CD. It's basically a rescue disc with tons of apps to do just about anything you can think of. Such is the case with Knoppix, but in that case it's all the stuff ever written for Debian. Technically it is an OS, but it is designed not to be installed. The big improvement over the years was to get it to boot on USB. The latest improvements relate to UEFI capability. Otherwise the collection of utilities have remained pretty constant over the years.

As luck would have it, I found an FTP server with an English version of Knoppix 8.2, which is only one or two versions behind the latest issue. 8.2 is EFI bootable and I was able to create a USB stick that actually works on the MSI laptop. The technique is similar to others I've run into in my UEFI multi-boot research. The live CD/DVD is of course merely a bootable .iso. In order to make it more usable they added a persistence partition. A lot can be done with that arrangement, but the OS files themselves cannot be upgraded. The next upgrade would be a brand new iso. And that is where I'm at with Knoppix. The 8.2 version apparently is the last free version that was released about a year ago. After that a new Debian Curator took over and upgraded to version 8.5. The new curator, however, is essentially selling Knoppix in that you must buy the magazine in order to get the latest copy of Knoppix DVD.

I spent a couple hours exploring what was on the Knoppix 8.2 disk and came away very impressed. If I were more enthused about Linux in general I would be wiling to pay for the upgraded Knoppix. I think it's that good. At the moment Linux is too much of a pain to get serious over. It's going to be a tough call when I have to decide which way to go.

[Kellemora]

Somehow while typing I must have hit a key that knocked me off, and this time I lost what I typed. Drat.
Usually when I come back it is still here, but when I tried to recover, I had to log back on again.

Oh well, I had only said I plugged an old IDE HD into my docking station, and then discovered the computer was off.
When I restarted the computer, it booted into Windows XP Pro on the IDE drive in the docking station which was a surprise.
I checked all the Drive C files and compared them with an old external backup drive, and they all matched.
But I could not check the partitions from Windows XP, which tells me they are probably Linux partitions.
The next time I get a chance, I will check to see what is on those partitions viewing them from Linux.

Linux lets me view Windows partitions and files and lets me copy documents or whole folders without a problem.
Don't know why Windows won't do the same thing. Oh yeah, forgot, they are God, and there shall be no other gods besides them, hi hi.

[yogi]

It sounds to me like Linux needs Windows more than Windows needs Linux.

A while back I took the HD that I removed from the dead Toshiba laptop and plugged it into the USB3 port of my desktop. Then I went to BIOS and from there booted into the Toshiba HD. It worked just fine which surprised me. First of all USB3 ran the whole OS nearly as fast as when the drive was plugged into its native motherboard. The other thing that was amazing is that all the peripheral devices worked without having to change drivers. Windows sensed the monitor being different, for example, and set things up to display with the new aspect ratio. The Ethernet drivers are way different too, but they worked just fine. I think part of the success is due to the fact that both the desktop and the old Toshiba are MBR formatted disk systems. If I only had a computer to wrap around this disk drive, I'd be sitting pretty.

[Kellemora]

I was going to save an article from Quora to post for you here, but it was a wee bit long.

It was titled: Why is Microsoft showing so much interest in Linux?

Here are a couple of short excerpts:
"Microsoft has decided that the operating system is no longer an important battle-ground, and it’s more important to gain market share in cloud (Azure and Office 365) than it is to put energy into battling Linux for application market share."
"Microsoft will (of course) absolutely take a Windows renewal deal, but it is going to come with a chunk of free Azure because it wants you to use that instead of Windows on your own servers."
"So why this shift away from caring about Windows?"
"Do you keep pouring money into making Windows the platform for more apps vs. Linux? Or should you just not care which OS the app runs on, throw open the doors and welcome every single app that runs on Linux onto Azure?
Although it is doubtless painful, as Satya you stop caring about the OS and focus on the cloud app platform, embarking on a program to make yourself as attractive as possible for every Linux app. That includes joining the Linux Foundation."

Looks like they are switching from developing their OS to making APPs that run on cloud provided OSs.
I'm pretty sure Office 365 is already available to use on-line, so it doesn't matter what OS is on your computer.
And then there is Azure!

[yogi]

I made more than a few contributions to Quora and know about the so called experts who answer questions. I was one of them. LOL Having said that, Quora is the kind of place where you can get information that is not readily available elsewhere. You just have to be clever enough to know when the authority is speaking from knowledge or from opinion.

Microsoft has been through it's epiphany. The mobile device market fully developed before Microsoft knew what was happening. I am certain they were preoccupied with the exiting of Bill Gates and missed a lot due to that. But, for whatever the reason the desktop computer market diminished and Microsoft had no response. When it became a matter of staying in business or not, they had to come to the realization that their core product, desktop operating systems, was a lame duck. I had my doubts about Satya Nadella as head of the company but he seems to have saved the ship from sinking. It is due to his leadership that Microsoft is now offering "Windows as a service" and earning its life sustaining profits elsewhere. Ironic as it sounds, I've seen a Windows Linux distro offered by somebody but never took the time to pursue it. I can't believe you can actually mix oil and water, but yeah that is a distinct possibility in the not too distant future.

There is probably an element of truth in the suggestion that Microsoft is abandoning the traditional desktop business and allowing anybody who wants it to pick it up. Linux is a perfect choice given it appeals to people who still like doing things the old way. But you can bet your house on Windows as a service being available to desktop and laptop users ad infinitum. Since more than half the company profits are now derived from other parts of their business, Microsoft is doing the right thing by abandoning operating systems and their attendant software (apps). Of the big three, the Microsoft Store has the least amount of visibility and is the least profitable. Part of that is due to their deliberate decision to emphasize cloud computing and not take on the mobile device market head on. They have a lot invested in the Microsoft brand and I don't think they are quite ready to bury it yet.

[Kellemora]

I mentioned once before I use several apps that are programs on-line and not installed on my computer.
I don't know the complexities of being able to use Windows Apps vs Linux Apps on-line, but have used Android Apps live on-line as well. The only thing these apps send to my computer is a copy of what would be displayed if a monitor was on their server.
So, I figure, as long as a computer, laptop, or cell phone can receive and display a video image, it doesn't matter what OS or browser is in use, all they are doing is viewing the results of their work as a projected image to their image viewer.

I think OS's will be dumbed down to the point, their only purpose is to run a web browser, and save data, hi hi.
Not much different than how Work Stations worked for years.

I messed around with Edubuntu for several months. It was a server that held all the programs and data. This way I could use my little 512 meg computers to do things a computer requiring 1 or 2 gigs of memory.
Trouble is, the old computer I ran Edubuntu on, even after upgrading it to 4 gigs of memory, was still slow, and most programs are not designed for multi-user, or for even a single user running it from a server instead of on their own machine. Edubuntu did have several multi-user programs that ran on the server, but most were for learning purposes on using Edubuntu. Not really practical for heavy use.
I eventually put Debian on that computer, removed 2 gigs of memory and built another identical computer and used the 2 gigs in it, and that is how I've been running for years before getting the Silver Yogi!

Of all the computers I do have running here, none of them are large enough to use for what I do each day if the Silver Yogi eventually gives up the ghost. Maybe if I up their memory they could, but I know they would be slower.

[yogi]

When you get right down to it, my Pixel 3 clever phone (actually a computer that can make phone calls) isn't doing anything more than some old Widows 3.1 computer was doing. They, and everything in between, are extensions of the human mind. All the programs and apps are single tasks that would normally be part of the bundle of things we consistently do on a daily basis, i.e., communicate with others and amuse as well as educate ourselves. Computers made all that easier and if things keep going the way they are, computers will have better brains than us humans in the near future.

Does it really matter what OS is behind this kind of mental activity? Of course not. The benefits are derived from the output of the tasks themselves and not from how they are performed. The fact that one OS can emulate an entirely different OS is novel. It doesn't add value to the task at hand. I've tinkered with a lot of different versions of Windows as well as Linux. Oddly enough, they all had to use Firefox to browse the Internet. LOL And that's the point. Some OS's are better at doing things than others, but they all do the same thing.

[Kellemora]

It could be just because I'm so used to Linux, but I pulled my hair out trying to figure out the simplest of tasks on that new computer with Win 10 I bought for Debi. I hate to see a brand new computer sitting here unused.
All I wanted to do was change two screen backgrounds, the splash screen, aka log-in screen for when the computer was locked, and the background screen without using the photo slide show link.
I spent an hour on-line trying to figure out where those images are stored, and although I found like six different answers on-line, none of them were correct.
Since there is nothing on it per se, nothing of value yet anyhow, for now I've bypassed the log-in screen while playing with it.
I had an old splash screen and lighter matching background screen from when I was running SCS Handymenders, designed for me by one of my employees. The base package is in a folder where all the parts are separate so I can change the text if I want. In other words, the original image itself is clean, as is the lighter background image. Then the text is added to a second copy of the original and saved before being placed as the splash screen. The lighter image is done likewise except the text on it is light and at the top out of the way.
I've put it on a couple of my older Debian computers, one using the text Classic Haus Lmited, L.C. and on another RAIAR, in it's fancy design. Using Gimp was easy to add what layers I wanted, then combine all the layers in an exported file to use for the splash and background screens.
Heck, even years ago when I was using Cougar Mountain Software, along with their package came a splash screen with my company name on it, with a really cool background. But they had it really hidden somewhere inside their program, probably as a vector graphic written in code, hi hi. Not much different than you see when you go to an insurance office or doctors office. Their computers when idle show the companies logo and name.
Oh, well, no more time to mess around with that for about another month.

[yogi]

I'm an old hand when it comes to using Windows, but I'm also fixed in my ways. Even if I know how to do things the new improved way, I'll stick with my old tried and proven methods as long as possible. Part of it is that the old ways have become instinctive. I don't have to think about how to do certain things on my computers. Thus, when something new comes along, such as a Windows 10 GUI or a Pixel clever phone, I go through a lot of pain and agony during the learning process. I've spent hours, days, maybe weeks searching for answers to simple questions. You know some of the pain I feel when I rant about Linux. It's the same process.

I now know that I could have avoided a lot of the learning curve I encounter with Windows 10 if I did the mobile device thing earlier in my life. I waited more than a dozen years to get a smart phone and avoided my wife's iPad in the meantime. It was all something I'd hoped would go away, but knew it would not. So, now that I have the latest and greatest Windows and a so called smartphone, it all makes sense. The way things are done is fairly universal across all modern computers. Those background and lock screen pictures are in a special place (just as is the case in Windows 7), but you don't even have to know that place in order to change the images. Put the image on your desktop and right click on it. Select the option to use this image as your background from the drop down menu. You don't like what you see? Right click anywhere on the desktop and select "Personalize." Voiola!

Linux Ubuntu would be the closest thing to what Windows and mobile devices are doing these days. But, it is still Linux. There is nothing wrong with Linux. It's just stuck in a mode that is not mobile friendly. You don't have an interest in that mode of computing so that when you cross the line you will have to learn the new methods. The good news is that when you learn them on one machine, you will be comfortable on every similar machine out there. You don't have to commit to using Windows to justify knowing what it's doing.

[Kellemora]

I don't have a Schmartz-Fone, all I have is a little Flip-Fone, and even it does more than I want or use on it.
Guess I'm just olde and stuck in my ways, hi hi.

Back in the days of DOS, when my dad went to work for my brother in accounts payable, using one of those confounded computin' contraptions. I wrote several little BAS programs to cheer him up. You had to boot up from a 5-1/4 floppie in those days, so I took his boot disk and added things to it, most of which he actually liked, because it made some of his work easier.
On boot up it would say Good Morning Dad, then ask if he wanted to go to accounts payable or inventory first this morning. It had to two places he could select with the Tab key. AP or INV. Then it would say, Please Install the AP disk in Drive B, or Please install the INV disk in Drive B. As soon as he did that and hit enter, the screen would say, please install AP DATA in Drive A, or INV Data in Drive A.
This is when the normal system took over for all the rest.
At that time, there was a Hard Drive, but I don't remember if it was on the server machine or on his machine, that held all the data. Because at the end of day, he ran about 8 to 10 backup disks and put them in a vault before going home from work. He often made a second copy he took home with him for safe keeping too.
This was probably for security reasons more than anything else, but you could not boot directly into AP or INV without first booting from the start-up disk, and the loading either the AP or INV disk. And I'm not really sure what the Data disks were for exactly, since the actual data was stored on a hard drive he could back up from.
Early Cougar Mountain Accounting Software was complicated to use. Which is why I went with QuickBooks.

[yogi]

It seems like your dad was one smart cookie. Backups in a vault and a copy in his pocket when he left the building is about as safe as it gets. Some software, even today, needs something like a dongle in order to boot into the main system. This eliminates the need for passwords and makes the system secure assuming the dongle is genuine. Could be that the database was encrypted and the keys to unlocking it were on the portable disks. Could be none of that. LOL I would assume that any accounting program would be security aware in some way or another.

At one time I decided to put a banner with clever messages across the bottom of the touch screen that the factory people were using to test radios. My hope was to give them a chuckle with my sense of humor and to entertain them for 10-15 seconds. One of the messages I put in was, 'If at first you don't succeed, try stealing second." It turned out that my humor could be read two different ways. I was playing with words about baseball when I wrote it, but some of the women were not amused by my suggestion to try "stealing" for an occupation if all else fails. They brought this lame attempt at humor to the attention of my supervisor who thought it was funny, but made me change it anyway. So much for entertaining the troops.

[Kellemora]

There was something similar at Deaconess Hospital in the Transcription Department where the frau worked.
Each day, on the log-in screen, there was a new bible verse, taken from the KJV.
Most of the employee's were Catholic, some Jews, and a mix of others.
The Catholics didn't like the verses were not from the Douay bible, and a few others didn't like them shoved in their face every time they had to log-in.
After about five years, enough complaints piled up that they finally took them off the log-in screen.

Where my son was going to school, they only had one class, an introduction to computing.
The screen on every computer in that classroom said "Time will pass! Will You?"
If I recall, they had four sessions per year, and computing was only one-quarter of a school year.
It worked out great for those taking choir which was also only a one-quarter of a school year class.
In fact, that's the only reason my son took choir. He was not interested any any of the other one-quarter classes.

[yogi]

Your son's story reminds me of a little quirk I had all four years of high school. We had nine periods of class during a normal day and one of those had to be a study hall. That was just a classroom where students were herded into and had to remain silent so that the others could ... study. I put up with about three days of that before I discovered that there were a few other things you could elect to do other than study. One of those things was typing class. Swimming lessons was another, and I took a lifesaving class where I earned an actual certificate. It was low level and not worth anything, but it got me out of study hall. Most of the time, however, I volunteered to be a hall guard. Us guards checked that any students roaming the halls had a valid pass to do so. Some of us were stationed at the exits of the building to be sure nobody was cutting classes. I wasn't all that thrilled confronting students to be sure they were complying with the rules; some weren't and I had to deal with them by escorting them down to the principle's office. The best part of being a hall guard was that I was entitled to arrive at my next class 5 minutes late. I also could leave 5 minutes early to get to my hall guard station. I thought it was a fun activity considering the alternatives.

[Kellemora]

I was in the Varsity Marching Band, a requirement to be selected for the Symphonic Band which I finally achieved. Plus I took Typing for a semester and Gregg Shorthand another semester, anything to get out study hall, hi hi.

The only time I wore the white belt was when I was in early grade school, now they are dayglo orange.
The older kids were crossing guards, but being so young I was only assigned to the cafeteria doors.
Don't even remember what it was I was doing there, watching for something but I don't remember what anymore.

[yogi]

White Belt? That reminds me of grammar school where I was a patrol boy. LOL For some reason they did not allow girls to do this. A patrol boy was a crossing guard. Most of the time I was assigned to helping the official crossing lady. She came to her post in a uniform and I'm guessing she might have been a volunteer from the local police department. She certainly looked official and I was proud to be chosen to work with her. It turns out that I STILL have that white belt. I found it in the old house and brought it here to Missouri with a few, very few, other memorabilia.

[Kellemora]

I had my whole HS Marching Band uniform until the first flood. It was too small for me when I got it, all wool which I hated in the summer but was OK in the winter. I was still able to fit into it, albeit a wee bit tighter. They looked almost like military uniforms, complete with belts and spats yet.
The reason I got to keep it was the school got all new uniforms, and they were going to throw away the old ones that were not assigned out to someone, and since no other school wanted them, they told us to just keep them.

None of the lower grade school kids got to help the crossing guard, we were all assigned to places inside the school. Entry doors, and like me, one pair of the cafeteria doors.

[yogi]

The crossing guard lady was stationed at a main artery intersection only a block away from the school. The street had four lanes and much traffic. They installed a traffic control light there just for the school. As it happened there were three or four patrol boys helping out that lady. We stretched across all four lanes of traffic and held up yellow flags, or some such thing. It looked great but we were not there to stop traffic. Our only purpose was to keep the kids off the street and within the crosswalks until the patrol lady waved us on.

Wool clothing used to itch like crazy. I recall mom getting me wool pants and I could not wear them very long. I have no problems with Cashmere or Angora. Not too long ago it was discovered that I have an allergy to lanolin. That might be the reason I had trouble wearing woolen clothes. Then again, I recall using some kind of grease on my hair (guess I was one of those greaser kids LOL) which had lanolin for a base. No problem with that. It just goes to show I have a thick skull.

[Kellemora]

Normal wool clothing always made me itch too.
But for some reason, the wool issued by the military did not itch at all.
We had heavy wool blankets too, and they were nice.
Also, for some reason, nothing shrunk, no matter how many times you wet and dried it.
I had a nice wool sweater at home which although I used Woolite to wash it, I guess I shouldn't have tossed it in the dryer, it came out to small to fit my sisters big doll, hi hi.
I never did learn why the wool the military used did not shrink.
Same for our band uniforms, no matter how many times they went to the cleaners, they always came back the same size as they went in. And needless to say, as a marching band, we got rained on more than just a few times.